Can't stand the pain she's put me through

[Lykke 32]

She said it all: she went to the surgery, she wanted to hear from you, but she knew, you were the last person, who would answer her.... Why is she writting you thought? Because she is trying to make you feel guilty, so you would answer her... And then, something is telling me, that you are gonna find out, that the surgery was not that serious, it´s more likely just a piece of information, she wanted to manipulate you with...

 

And I know, you already suspect all that about this situation, don´t you?

 

If it´s true and she was on the surgery, it´s not your responsibility anyway...

 

Why should you support a person, who threatend you with outing you to your parents, using bad laguage towards you, talking about her affairs with guys in front of you ?! She knew, that all this was hurting you, she did it on purpose to hurt you, to control you... She is not that nice and sweet girl, you want her to be....

 

So, I vote for NO ANSWER.....

 

Remember "image of a dead slot machine" from this "Loser" artickle!! She is gonna try and try, but then eventually give it up, if she is gonna get nothing ... Don´t expose yourself to her again!

 

Write to someone else

[StandtheRain]

You're right.. I do suspect that it's nothing serious - but at the same time I still feel bad being like this to her. I did remind myself of all the things she's done and it helped slightly (it also helped now that you stated all those things back to me too).

 

I received another message from her earlier today - it made me feel even worse

 

"Look I really need this so plz talk 2 me, I have so much 2 say to you just plz"

 

Ten minutes later:

 

"Plz give me that, let me say what I have 4 me"

 

I feel like I should just let her say whatever and for me to get all this frustration off my chest at the same time (I want to be able to express how upset/hurt I am and etc.) Like you said, if any contact is made with her, it should, at the most, be through messages and texts - not phone calls right?

 

I'm sorry, in advance, if I end up contacting her..I don't mean to let all my efforts (and your support) go to a waste. I don't like feeling all this guilt and pressure ..

 

If I write to someone else what I wanted to say to her, I don't think it'll turn out well

[Lykke 32]

Dear StandtheRain

 

I´ve got a secret for you; If I would have got all those tense messages from my ex-friend now, do you think, that I would be as brave, as you were throught the last month? Ohhh, I so doubt it..... It´s soooo easy for me to be "clever" and tell you: you should do so and so.... Be sure, that I am not the expert here.... I can only offer you my opinion as I see the situation from outside....

 

You did a great job on yourself! Be proud! You know now, what are you dealing with, it´s half way to win! And you are trying to do the best for yourself! You are a really nice and thoughtful girl.... I so understand your urge to contact her again... I just want to say: be careful and please try to think more about yourself than about her....

 

I would try to avoid phone conversation, as it can have really agitated impact on you. I believe, that message could give you more space to think and formulate the answer.... Don´t fall into argument, talk to her briefly, I would say....

 

StandtheRain, you do what, you need to do, that´s life... Nobody is judging you.... Look on this forum, people here are on their backs and forths all the time....not excepting me! Feelings are not that easy and fun to deal with, ha?

 

Keep posting and it´s gonna be fine.....You´ll see....

 

Take care!!!!

 

Ohhh, I totally forgot: another vote for NO ANSWER!

[StandtheRain]

Thank you Lykke - heh regardless of what you said, I still think you would've been stronger than how I was during this past month.

 

I appreciate all the help and encouragement you've given me during this whole thing. But during that day, I went with how I was feeling at the moment and ended up contacting her...I really hope I didn't let you down (your votes counted though heh) .

 

I messaged her telling her to say what she needed to say. Well, she practically poured her heart out telling me how sorry she was and that she know she's treated me badly. She told me that not having me around those weeks opened her eyes; that it made her realize how she was and that I was the "real deal" - how I stuck with her through good and bad times. She told me how she had too much pride and all those times she was jealous was because she still loved me (she's talking about the times she was when we weren't "together"). She said she missed telling me everything that went on with her life; that she wanted us to try and be friends again. When she said that, I asked her, "How many times have we tried already?" She responded by saying, "many times" but that she changed now; that's she different. I told asked, "How do I know that?" She answered saying that I wouldn't unless I try; to give her a chance.

 

I didn't know what to do. She has never said anything like that to me before - things about changing and actually admitting her faults. In my heart I really wanted to forgive her for everything and, like she suggested, for us to be friends again (maybe more?). But, there was another part of me that kept remembering everything she did. I kept getting nagged by a sense of hope that what she said (about changing) really was true. But...the bad memories overwhelmed me at the moment...and I told her it was too late. I ended up turning my back to her pleas and now I'm tortured by this empty feeling inside. I told her that we will not speak again after that and left with a bye.

 

Have I gone too far?.. Why do I feel so terrible? Did I ruin a chance for something to be different? Did I throw away what could've been? I feel...so incomplete. It's like being a runner in a marathon and suddenly just stopping midway and going home because I was tired. If I pushed myself, would I end up getting hurt? What if I don't and actually reach the finish line?

 

I'm so confused.. (hopefully the metaphor didn't do the same to you)

 

Yes, feelings are not easy and fun to deal with - which I'm exemplifying here..

[Miss M]

Oh my gosh... I just finally got around to reading this whole thread tonight. And then here at the end, I see she is manipulating you with such a pull on your heart. But please, don't give in to her. Lykke has been doing a brilliant and wonderful job of explaining this and supporting you. (I'm so amazed, Lykke! ) But please, please don't succumb. The awful feelings are the same ones I've had to suffer. I truly know how much they torture you. But they are normal feelings in the process of trying to heal, but no, don't give in to them. If you try again with her, she will be better only for a little while, and then it will be right back to the same old stuff, maybe worse. It hurts a lot, but it's much better to sit with those awful feelings... post here... do anything else, but just don't give in to her.

[Miss M]

I was given an advice, that at those moments, when I sudenly tend to do something nice for her again, I should do it for myself.... Like... Wanna buy her a present? Buy it to yourself!...Wanna write her something nice? ... (Well, wonder how my cell would actually deal with that , or else should I end up writting postcards to myself??)... But you got the point, right?

It's is really good to read this idea with your special spin on it! I think I will stick these words up on my computer. I need to take your advice too! Thanks.

 

All your posts in this thread are great, Lykke. You probably don't even realize what a wonderful job you've done explaining this... and taking good care of StandheRain. I'm sooo impressed. =D>

[Miss M]

For StandtheRain, here is a reminder from the link about the "loser."

 

8. Breakup Panic "The Loser" panics at the idea of breaking up - unless it's totally their idea - then you're dropped like a hot rock. Abusive boyfriends often break down and cry, they plead, they promise to change, and they offer marriage/trips/gifts when you threaten ending the relationship. Both male and female losers may threaten suicide, threaten to return to old sweethearts (who feel lucky they're gone!), or threaten to quit their job and leave the area - as though you will be responsible for those decisions. "The Loser" offers a multitude of "deals" and halfway measures, like "Let's just date one more month!"

 

They shower you with phone calls, often every five minutes, hoping that you will make an agreement or see them just to stop the telephone harassment. Some call your relatives, your friends, their friends, and anyone else they can think of - telling those people to call you and tell you how much they love you. Creative losers often create so much social pressure that the victim agrees to go back to the bad relationship rather than continue under the social pressure. Imagine trying to end a relationship and receiving tearful calls from all his or her relatives (they secretly hope you'll keep them so they don't have to), seeing a plea for your return in the newspaper or even on a local billboard, receiving flowers at work each day, or having them arrive at your place of work and offer you a wedding ring (male loser technique) or inform you that they might be pregnant (female loser technique) in front of your coworkers! Their reaction is emotionally intense, a behavior they use to keep you an emotional prisoner. If you go back to them, you actually fear a worse reaction if you threaten to leave again (making you a prisoner) and they later frequently recall the incident to you as further evidence of what a bad person you are. Remember, if your prize dog jumps the fence and escapes, if you get him back you build a higher fence. Once back in the grasp of "The Loser" - escape will be three times as difficult the next time.

[Lykke 32]

StandtheRain, I was speechless for a while after reading your last post..... Whaaaaat?.....How?.... Really????.....She did it!!!!!! \\ .....

 

I was in the middle, reading about how she promised you to do everything to change, to improve, to make it up for you..... And I told myself: "well, her ex promised her the world.... typicall.... I would honestly succumb as well....Ok, but StandtheRain wrote again, let´s talk about it and then next time she is gonna succeed!"..... And as I finished reading your post, I couldn´t believe it, I was in wonderful shock! You girl, you deserve a gold medal for winning over "so-in-love-with-the-bad-girl" you! Do you realise, how big this is!? Welll, I DO and I am sooooo proud of you!!

 

I just don´t know now, how to explain it to you with the right words..... It´s like you´ve reached the point, when you are more then half way away from her and less then half way closer to you...... She is loosing the power over you!! And it´s so important, because you still have a lot of steps in front of you to get far far away from her, to heal from all the pain, to fight the temptation to turn back and run over your partial successes and end up with her again..... I gurantee you, there will be the times, when you look back again and hesitate "Did I do the right thing?" .....And you think about it maybe every day.....And every day become every second day.....And every second day become every fifth.... once a week......And then one day you say: Who cares about her? She never treat me right! She doesn´t deserve the nice, thoughtful, caring, loving, lovable, wonderful me!

 

Are you looking forward to that day? I bet you are!! Me too!! (still on the "every second day" phase, hahaha...) But I can honestly tell you, that after the split, however difficult it was, I never ever again felt as hurt, hopeless, heartbroken, shaken, as how I felt with her "by my side"..... She is gone and so is the deepest sorrow..... Of course I feel hurt and sad still, but not in that soul-destroying way.... I really understand this saying: "Oh, I can breath again!!"

 

Well, as you asked couple of quesions here, this is gonna be long post 8-[ ....

 

Have you gone too far? No, my dear, it´s definitely her, who has gone too far!! She treated you bad, threatened you, she showed no respect for your feelings and love.... She is adult and responsible. She´s gone too far and now it´s time to take responsibility....

 

Why do you feel so terrible? Because she let you forget, how to feel good and happy.... It´s gonna take time, but it´s coming!

 

Did you ruin a chance for something to be different? NO, NO, NO, you didn´t! You did exactly the opposite, ´cause from now and forward everything is gonna be different in a GOOD way! Wait a bit and see!!!

 

Did you throw away what could´ve been? I truly believe, that if you stayed with her, you would end up getting hurt again... And if you´ve thrown that away, I am happy for you!!

 

You say, you feel ..... so incomplete... Ohhh yeah....I could write pages and pages about this feeling (so this could turn awwwwfully long...)... Incomplete, hollow, empty.... I think, that this feeling is coming to get me sometimes, because I was for so long in such an intense storm of feelings, occupied with solving this puzzle, trying to realise, what went wrong.... So now, when I know the answers and I am reconciling, I no longer go throught those extreme ups and downs and maybe this is why this "normal" feels empty and incomplete.... At least I think so......

 

I know, that I spin a bit the angle of your questions....Sorry, I see no way, that your realtionship could work again and I think, you know it too.... Trust yourself in that....

 

I really am glad, that you told her goodbye..... It was the only right thing to do! Give yourself a big hug!

 

With smile Lykke

[Lykke 32]

Miss M, great to see you and your huge glasses again!O Thanks for the nice words.... I quoted you quite often, didn´t I? You are so good at explaining things and you see one thing in connection with another ..... I always gladly read, what you recommend to others on this forum...

 

StandtheRain, let me introduce you "my" mentor. Miss M helped me to figure out, what was going on up side down in my friendship....With her support I survived Christmas and NY, didn´t make this fatal mistake to contact my ex friend again... Who knows, in what mess I would be right now whithout her help.... Chain reaction though.... I mainly based my help to you on Miss M´s help to me...

 

Well, I guess, there is still plenty to work on, when it comes to our "losers".... And I am glad, I´ve found you people to share this battle with... (My family and friends are great, but I can see, they can´t quite understand my backs and forths.... They think kind of "Case closed, move on!", while I am stuck somewhere in the middle.... It feels good to have forum like this, honestly....To talk with someone, who is going throught the same...)

 

Take care girls! And all of you!

[Miss M]

Miss M, great to see you and your huge glasses again! Thanks for the nice words.... I quoted you quite often, didn´t I? You are so good at explaining things and you see one thing in connection with another..... I always gladly read, what you recommend to others on this forum...

 

StandtheRain, let me introduce you "my" mentor. Miss M helped me to figure out, what was going on up side down in my friendship....With her support I survived Christmas and NY, didn´t make this fatal mistake to contact my ex friend again... Who knows, in what mess I would be right now whithout her help.... Chain reaction though.... I mainly based my help to you on Miss M´s help to me...

 

Ah, thanks lots, Lykke. I've had such an awful week, and today was especially bad. ](*,) Unfortunately I'm still not at all free of the guilt and self-blame, but what you've written here helps a lot... you've given me so much to smile about. And I've been VERY impressed with your all of posts here, and your way of explaining it. I'm not even kidding when I say you're BRILLIANT. You're really better at explaining than you might think. And I'm so glad you could take the advice I gave and pass it on. Besides helping someone else, that's also a good way to help you to heal and move on. And like I said before, I can see that I also need to take some of YOUR good advice when I'm down in the dumps.

[Miss M]

Lykke this is something you said earlier in the thread...

She said it all: she went to the surgery, she wanted to hear from you, but she knew, you were the last person, who would answer her.... Why is she writting you thought? Because she is trying to make you feel guilty, so you would answer her... And then, something is telling me, that you are gonna find out, that the surgery was not that serious, it´s more likely just a piece of information, she wanted to manipulate you with...

You're exactly right. It was probably something minor, just as you said, but even if it had been something major, StandtheRain still shouldn't contact her.

 

This reminds me of a similar situation I had... another friend who was mistreating me. It was a 12-year platonic friendship, but I always knew something wasn't right. I finally understood what he was doing, and broke it off from him, but that's when he started calling me more and more for every little insignificant thing at all times of the day and night. No matter how much I said, "stop calling me!" it made no difference at all. I finally blocked his calls for about 3 months. Then I unblocked them, and I soon got a call from him. His mother had just died, and his first thought was to call me, (a few days later, I checked with his other closest friends... our mutual friends... He hadn't called any of them, only me.) Well, when he called he left me a sad, sad message. He seemed to say, "don't you feel sorry for me now???" I had mixed feelings, felt sympathy... and horrible, horrible guilt. But also I thought, "what the heck!? here's a jerk who would use his own mother's death to try to manipulate me?! Arghh!" ](*,) I didn't return the call... yes, I took the path that made me feel like a big creep... but he finally left me alone. I don't like feeling terrible, but it's still better than putting up with his bad treatment. That was a year ago and I'm still very disgusted that he used his mother's death as an occasion to try to manipulate me. But it seems he has finally accepted that I'm really gone forever. And every time I feel guilty, I remember that he didn't feel guilty when he used his mother in that way.

 

You all stay strong, and just know there's somebody who understands.

[Lykke 32]

StandtheRain, How is it going? I hope, you are coping with the situation...(???) I know, you are going throught the rought time....so, take good care of yourself!! Lykke

[StandtheRain]

(Sorry I haven't been able to respond - bah I've been so busy lately.. But I'll edit this post later to your responses. Just letting you know I'm still here )

[StandtheRain]

Lykke, Miss M's your mentor you've been talking so much about? It's good to finally meet the person who helped you that greatly.

 

I really want to thank you for both of your help in this matter (and Miss M, thank you for having the patience to read through this whole topic). I feel bad, however, that I failed to keep my promise of not contacting my ex . I should give you an update on what's happened. The day after I told her that it was too late to try being friends, I received another (2) message from her:

 

"I know we said we gonna stop, but [insert my name] I can't sleep I can't get you out of my head; don't know what to do"; "I feel I am going insane"

 

I responded (asking her the reason for saying that) and we ended up sort of talking again. Towards the end of the night, when I was about to go to bed, she told me she couldn't sleep. I asked her why and she answered saying that she was thinking and didn't feel good. I forgot how the conversation went after that but I ended up letting her call (since I told her I would not) me (and like I made clear) just this once.

 

So we spent most of the night "chatting", though it was mainly her telling me what's been going on and etc. During our conversation, she apologized a couple of times for what she's done and that she missed me and hearing my voice. The times that she said she missed me, all I did was stay quiet. I know she must've expected me to say something in return because she responded to my quietness by saying, "I know you hate me and it's understandable.." She made a comment about how she was planning to come over here (as in the city) had I continued to ignore her. Startled, I asked, "You were?" This surprised me a bit because I had actually pictured a similar scenario happening (that all of a sudden she's going to show up). She said that she was seriously considering doing that because I kept in no contact from her for so long.

 

She later went to tell me that she didn't really sleep with that guy - that she just couldn't do it; she said she was sorry for lying to me about it. I told her that I didn't really believe her when she told me anyway. She responded, "You didn't?" I answered saying, "Not exactly - it's not the first time you've said that to me." She then said, "Oh.." and stayed quiet for a while before apologizing again to me. Close to the end our conversation, she asked me if I am going to call her tomorrow. I told her that this would be the last time I did. With that, I could hear her whole voice change - she was near tears at that point. She then said, "You haven't even said you missed me once during this whole time.." I told her I was sorry and that I couldn't. After a couple of minutes she regained her composure - we talked for a few minutes before ending our conversation.

 

For some reason, I ended up answering to her afterwards (that is, she messaged me and I agreed again). A couple of days after, she told me that she was [really] planning to come here in a couple of months. It shocked me - I did not expect her to say that and since I have seen her in a long, LONG time, the thought of being able to again..I don't know how to explain the feeling. When we talk now, everything seems to be fine (which scares me) - she even appears to not get upset as easily now - like things she would normally get bothered by, she doesn't anymore or it seems like she's controlling them (maybe it's just me?).

 

I feel bad for letting you down Lykke I wasn't strong enough to hold out that long with her messages. I didn't want to be a bad person either and it felt like I was by not giving her a chance to speak/say what she had to. If she really didn't change (and it's just me imagining it), then I've fallen back to where I started - I wish this wasn't so difficult

[Miss M]

StandtheRain, you haven't let anyone down here. This thread isn't about you disappointing us... This is about us supporting you unconditionally in whatever way is most helpful for you while you try to sort through this. You don't need to feel obligated to us. And both of us understand totally how strong that pull is from your ex. We've both been there, experienced it first-hand, and it's indeed very powerful. And neither of us will judge you negatively for succumbing to that. I'm being somewhat bold in speaking on behalf of Lykke, but I think she feels this way too.

 

I think your ex realized you were more fed up this time, and she realized she could really lose you for good. She knows she pushed you too far, and she knew she had no choice but to be respectful and civil with you. In the situation with my sister I haven't had to be "challenged" with an "apology" from her... she just made very vague hints that she felt regret and that was enough to suck me right back in. So if those very vague hints could hook me, then I sure can understand how her acknowledgment that she hurt you, her recognition of your pain, and several heartfelt apologies could affect you in this way. I'm sure I would have gladly and gratefully given my sister several of my vital organs, and a limb or two, kissed the ground she walked on, if she had ever truly apologized. I used to be so very hungry for any small apology, so your response to your ex is very understandable to me.

 

And I'm still having trouble doing NC with my sister, so I try to just do limited contact. I used to get hopelessly sucked into chatty hours-long marathon phone conversations. But now whenever I'm on the phone with her I'm very cool and distant, very nonchalant and disinterested when she's sharing tidbits of gossip. I act very bored, quiet, and we talk mostly 10-15 minutes and then end it... and then I don't hear from her again for 3-4 months. I know that she finally understands that our relationship is permanently changed. She is calling me less and less, but is also being more respectful each time. Your description of your conversation sounded very similar to my own.

 

But some things that are worth mentioning...

 

1)Abusers REALLY hate being ignored. For them, being ignored feels like total annilation, very scary. So they might apologize because they want you to stop ignoring them, but it's not because they've changed, not because they care about your feelings. And her deciding to come to you if you had kept ignoring her... well, that's also very typical. She just needs your affection and attention in order for her to feel whole, and people like her will often go to great lengths to get that. If you give in again, she will soon revert back to her old behavior.

 

2)Abusers are good at playing the victim, and that evokes our sympathy. She's telling you how she has suffered, that she can't sleep, how she misses you, because she's only trying to inspire you to feel sorry for her. It might sound like she is forlorn... longing for you... suffering badly... feeling remorseful... but she's really just trying to pull on your heartstrings so you will feel sorry for her and give her your sympathy, affection, attention. It might seem as if she has genuine affection for you, but she's really just trying to manipulate your affection for her.

 

3)Good behavior, tears, trembling voices, are typical responses of abusers who feel the panic of being ignored. They will be angels for a while, and some become the most gallant and attentive and romantic people, making us swoon with their expression of affection. And they will even cry some of the biggest crocodile tears and gut-wrenching sobs you've ever seen or heard. You have to start telling yourself to expect all of that from her, and also not to be swayed by that grand performance. And her emotions are real, but it's not an indication of how she feels about you. It's really an indication of how much she feels sorry for herself when you're not giving her your attention. In other words, it all stems from her complete selfishness, and has nothing to do with love for you. And you shouldn't believe that she will change, because she really can't. Try to put your own needs ahead of hers for a change, no matter how much she pulls on your heart.

 

And finally, no matter what you end up doing, I won't be disappointed in you... and I'm not judging you. I truly know how very seductive she can be. And I totally understand if you believe her and decide to reconcile. Just remember that all I offer is unconditional, and you need not feel any obligation to me.

[Lykke 32]

Dear StandtheRain,

 

don´t be so hard on yourself, really! You didn´t let me down! Why would you? Because you succumbed and talked to her again? Honestly who wouldn´t? I so would....I told you already some time ago, that your ex was sooo good with words.....Wanna hear something? I secretly envy you, that your ex admited her faults and appologized... My exfriend never did that, but if she would do that, yeah, I would fall for that imediatelly, I have no doubts about myself in that.....

 

I think, you handle the situation good. You seem like to have it under control so far....But I really agree here with Miss M. Your ex is an abuser and she is doing all the effort now, because she can feel, she is loosing you....

 

I also understand, that you feel the urge to give her one (maybe last?) chance..... (I have been there at least 5 times and always hoped for better, but it´s another story....). I would say, try it, ´cause if you don´t, you will always have the doubts, if you should or shouldn´t have.....

 

Here is something, what I did about 5 months before I´ve said final goodbyes.... Out of confusion I started to write down notes here and then, about what has happened, what has borthered me and why..... I remembered carefully, what was going on during those two years of our friendship, whatever came to my mind, I wrote it down... And then I continued remembering and wtritting..... It´s amazing, how many things (so small, but soooo painful!) you easily forget, when somebody is treating you nicely for a while again..... So now my oldest notes are almost 9 months old..... Life goes on and I tend to look at it all, like it was no big deal, why I made so huge fuss of it, I was all wrong , it was my fault.... Hallo, time to open the book of my memories written down black on white! Waaauuuuhhh! I am often surprised, what a great stories I can find there .... written by my own hand, forgotten by my own brain.....

 

Maybe you could do the same, or write down at least her promises for now as a reminder for the times, when she could turn to be abusive again. And definitely try to call back again, what feelings you did have, when you´ve turn to this forum for help.... I know, it seems like it was ages ago, but it´s not that long actually..... Read your first post and try to remember, how it felt..... And think really carefully about, if she could really change during one month.....

 

I would also ask your ex, what is her idea of the relationship with you now.

 

As Miss M said already, whatever you decide to do, we are gonna support you and help you, NOT judge you!!! I am still on my backs and forths every day, believe me... And one day I might succumb as well, but then I know, that I can find support here. I think, you are a nice girl, who tries to see the good in every person. But don´t let your ex to hurt you again.... Promise?!.... Ooooops, sounds like condition to me....

 

Take care!

[Miss M]

I secretly envy you, that your ex admited her faults and appologized... My exfriend never did that, but if she would do that, yeah, I would fall for that imediatelly, I have no doubts about myself in that.....

In some abusive relationships I did get apologies, but not a single one from my sister. I used to resent that about her, but now I'm kinda glad she can't apologize... because if she could, it would have been even more difficult to break free. Small blessings.

 

I also understand, that you feel the urge to give her one (maybe last?) chance..... (I have been there at least 5 times and always hoped for better, but it´s another story....). I would say, try it, ´cause if you don´t, you will always have the doubts, if you should or shouldn´t have.....

On the surface this might seem like bad advice, telling her to go ahead and give "try it"... but I had the same exact thought as you. We who have 20/20 hindsight can see things that someone else can't, but that's because we've opted to "try it" again. We only gained our clarity because we have already made the mistakes for ourselves and have first-hand experience of the painful disappointments. And it's those painful outcomes that created this certainty now. The only problem with trying again is it often makes it even more difficult to break free the next time. And also, the next time the abuser is cruel, she's likely to be even more abusive. She might even make good on her threat to "out" StandtheRain.

 

Also your advice about writing it all down is very good and something that also helped me a lot. I used to go back and read the bad stuff during my weak moments so I wouldn't lose my resolve. Writing it down is an excellent tool... a coping strategy, that helps one keep focused during those weak moments.

 

Also going back to read the first post in this thread is also great advice. I just read it again too, and wow, that's some seriously cruel stuff from StandtheRain's ex. Definitely not a good idea to go back to expose yourself to any more of that.

[StandtheRain]

Hey everyone.. Sorry about not having responded in such a long time. I know I sort of left everything (about how my relationship was going) hanging the last time I posted. A lot of things went on and I'll try to sum up everything that happened. But first, I just wanted to thank you you two (Lykke and Miss M) for all the advice and support through the whole thing - I didn't mean to stop responding/posting so abruptly (sorry).

 

First off, things had started out a little rocky after we began talking again. I still held a grudge against her and having me remind myself of everything she did did not help either. A couple of weeks roll by and things got a lot better. We were in good terms once again and our relationship went pretty smoothly. During that period, I questioned her again about her comment of coming over here to see me. From there, our conversation ended up with her really planning to come see me.

 

A couple of weeks went by and her 'mom' (grandmother) got very ill and passed away. She was crushed by the whole situation and I could feel how much pain she was going through. I stayed with her on the phone most of the night because she could not sleep and was crying constantly. I tried my best to comfort her (though I doubted my words could really ease the pain she was going through) and be with her during that hard period.

 

Time went on and "bumps" started to show up in our relationship - we started having fights here and there and thoughts of what she had done in the past started to go through my head again. We ended up having quite an argument a week or two before she was scheduled to fly here. However, the moment she arrived, everything was different. It was like all the negativity I had held towards her went away - everything between us seemed like it was new; like our relationship started fresh again. She stayed here for a couple of days and during that time, everything was great.

 

When she left back home, our relationship went on fine for some time before small fights would show up again. They eventually built up and suddenly became more frequent. The fights got worse and my heart started to push part of my feelings for her out. Like before, all the small fights led up to a huge one. Everything seemed to revoke memories of what I had written about; everything she would do. She accused me of always thinking I'm "so perfect" and called me a "b*tch". She kept on saying how I didn't care about anyone but myself (the first "new" thing I've heard her use on me); that she didn't want to be with me anyway because she dislikes having to "ask" me for things (by which she meant drinking - since I don't like when she drinks excessively; she does it regardless of what I say so I don't understand why she brought that up) and so on. I was pissed off, to say the very least. The whole fight ended up to where it all started: we broke it off and I vowed to myself to never speak with her again.

 

Why did this have to happen? Was I stupid to have believed she would change and to have given her another chance? If I had not gone back, would I have been able to turn my back on her when she went through what she did with her 'mom'? Did all this happen just so it could end up to where it started?...so I could learn my lesson maybe? I have no idea what to think now.

 

I'll be more careful with my heart next time though it's hard to find someone else when you're not exactly "out". Perhaps, I'm just not meant to be with anyone

[Lykke 32]

Dear StandtheRain,

 

well, once in a while throught those months I was thinking about you and your gf and how it all ended up.... And here you are, girl, and I am sorry for that, ´cause you are hurting again, again...... (((((Hugs)))))

 

Well, as we´ve spoken about it before, you needed to give her that one last chance. And if you wouldn´t have done that, you´d have regret it.... You simply needed to do it! Take it as a fact. If you moved on without that one last try, you would speculate about it endlesly.... The insecurity would´ve eaten you up inside, you would´ve turn back to her anyway after some struggle..... So don´t think about it, what´s done is done, now move on!

 

When this all happened? Is it some time ago? Are you NC now?

 

I think, it happened, because you wanted to believe, that she is that nice person, you wanted her to be. But she is not. She never was! She always treated you bad....

 

But you have every right to expect from your gf to treat you with love and respect!! You have to move on and get ready for that, because I am sure, you´re gonna meet someone, who is gonna genuinely love you. That what happened with your ex, that´s really not the way relationship is supposed to be......

 

I don´t think, it all ended up, where it started.... You are ready now to detach from her, like you never were before! She is abuser and never change, now you know that for sure!!

 

You take care, girl, and let´s talk about it!

[Miss M]

Hey StandtheRain and Lykke, ...wow, it's really good to connect with you both again, but I sure wish it didn't have to be for such heartbreaking reasons. And I'm sending my (((HUGS))) right along with Lykke. And STR, I also totally agree with Lykke... what you've been through, giving it one more try, is truly all part of the process of learning and letting go. We both understand it completely because we've also done the exact same thing. And no need to apologize to us for moving on with your life. The advice and support I offered was unconditional, no strings attached and no requirements... it was all given freely to do with as you saw fit, and in whatever time frame that worked best for you, so no worries.

 

She accused me of always thinking I'm "so perfect" and called me a "b*tch". She kept on saying how I didn't care about anyone but myself (the first "new" thing I've heard her use on me); that she didn't want to be with me anyway because she dislikes having to "ask" me for things (by which she meant drinking - since I don't like when she drinks excessively; she does it regardless of what I say so I don't understand why she brought that up) and so on. I was pissed off, to say the very least. The whole fight ended up to where it all started: we broke it off and I vowed to myself to never speak with her again.

Wow, this all sounds so very familiar to the kinds of things my sister often said to me. The sad thing for me was that I eventually started to believe them myself. I started perceiving myself that way, and even convincingly described myself to others the way my sister described me, helping everyone to see me through her dark lens. And I went as far as to vividly describe to other people about this very horrible person inside of me that was hidden just out of sight, telling them not to be fooled by my apparent innocent exterior. I can't believe how twisted up my head was back then. It was a long painful process to get "deprogrammed" from that kind of abuse.

 

Why did this have to happen? Was I stupid to have believed she would change and to have given her another chance? If I had not gone back, would I have been able to turn my back on her when she went through what she did with her 'mom'? Did all this happen just so it could end up to where it started?...so I could learn my lesson maybe? I have no idea what to think now.

Please try to be kind to yourself during this time. And no fair calling yourself "stupid" or anything else so unkind. Why did all of this happen? ... It happened because you're a kind, generous, and trusting person who is able to care about someone else with all your heart. It happened because you're the exact opposite of the kind of person she has described you to be. And later on she might have other terrible crises in her life, and even though it will be very difficult, you might want to consider NOT running to her aid. I know that sounds odd, but that's exactly what I finally had to do with my sister when she went through a crisis. Yes, I had to face the horrible inner guilt, but that was all part of the pain of letting go and getting free of her. After all, it was my sister who had instilled (programmed) the painful guilt in me in the first place. And I also had to do that kind of thing with another friend of mine who was emotionally abusive to me. During NC he actually tried to use his own mother's death as an occasion to manipulate my sympathy for him. Even though it was difficult, I had to just sit back and let his other supportive family and friends (of which he had TONS) help him through that so he wouldn't wriggle his way back into my life.

 

I'll be more careful with my heart next time though it's hard to find someone else when you're not exactly "out". Perhaps, I'm just not meant to be with anyone

And this kind of stuff happens in all types of relationships, sister/sister, brother/sister, bf/gf, etc... so it's not at all about being in the closet.

 

I don't know if you like to read, but these key books helped break me out of my hypnotic trance. ...

 

The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How To Recognize It And How To Respond by Patricia Evans

 

Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out: On relatonship and recovery by Patricia Evans

 

Controlling People: How to recognize, understand, and deal with people who try to control you by Patricia Evans

 

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the minds of angry and controlling men by Lundy Bancroft

 

This last one by Bancroft requires that you change the pronouns to make it fit, but the basic dynamics of emotional abuse are the same. And Bancroft included some especially insightful comments about abuse in lesbian relationships.

 

And remember, we're here for you if you need us.

[StandtheRain]

@Lykke:

 

You're right.. If I had not gone back with her I would've still been speculating about "what if" now. This actually happened the night before and yes, we're not talking. I had a feeling I would hear from her soon and just this morning, I received an e-mail from her (which I'll get to in a bit).

 

I do feel slightly more enpowered to detach myself from her this time around but, at the same time, I keep beating myself with this "I-told-you-so" mentality because I ended up in a similar spot to where I started.

 

@Miss M:

 

Thank you for understanding so much but I still didn't mean to just stop posting like that.

 

There are particular things my ex says to me that actually makes me sort of "self conscious" (if that's the correct term). For example, her saying that I always think I'm perfect makes me think that I don't blame myself enough for things and I hate feeling that way. I keep telling her that I'm far from perfect and that I'm not that great of a person - but every time we fight, she would ALWAYS make an effort to point that out; that I think I'm "so perfect". I can't stand it every time she says that.

 

Why did all of this happen? ... It happened because you're a kind, generous, and trusting person who is able to care about someone else with all your heart. It happened because you're the exact opposite of the kind of person she has described you to be.

 

When you tell me all that, I know you mean what you say - however, at the same time, I have this feeling inside me that won't let me believe that (what you said, not you ). It's weird because I'm aware and conscious that I'm feeling this way and I know I shouldn't be, but I can't change the way I feel.

 

I wish I could be as strong as you when it comes to saying "no" - I don't think I would've been able to turn away had she come to me when she lost her 'mother'. Maybe all this was unavoidable for me

 

I do enjoy reading - thank you for the recommendations; I'll look into them as soon as I get the chance to.

 

Oh as for the email I received, I'll quote parts of it:

 

I really hope that you don't end up deleting this. Look the reason for me to write this email is not cuz i want us to get back together it has nothing to do with that..

 

I doubt her pride would allow her to do so anyway

 

I know that night so many awful thing were said to one another, things that can never be forgiven..But in the real i can NEVER hate you no matter what i said that night, it's was all out of anger which I'm not saying was right to say all those things but most of the time i don't know how to handle my anger when things look so bad or things are throw at me and i know that's one of the worse things about me.

 

I don't know how to take that.. Usually when she says/admits/etc. faults about herself, it makes me think that things would be different - or at least, it could be and it makes me want to believe her. However, this time around, my feelings towards it is somewhat different. It's like I don't even want to hear it because I know nothing's going to change (could this final NC between us have caused my thoughts to change?).

 

But you must be wondering whats the email for? well I'm not saying right now but i really do hope with time we can be friends cuz in the real you were my best friend i don't feel like i can talk to anyone about half of the stuff that i do with you....you must be saying hell no which i understand but with time just maybe...... also more then anything just one day i wish to meet again.

 

My feelings on that seem to be torn between going with/agreeing with her and not allowing that to even happen. In the past, the whole "just friends" concept never worked out the way it should - so perhaps I should just leave this alone and ignore this email? Or maybe I should respond and tell her no and everything I'm feeling? Not sure what to do..

[StandtheRain]

I knew it - I had a feeling she would say something to me.. Just now she texted me saying (I edited some spelling so that it is more easily understood):

 

[my name] i know u hate me just know i am sooo sorry i feel so bad

i don't want us 2 be together i just do need u in my life

i know u dont even wanna answer me i know i f*cked up i just don't know what's wrong we me my anger is so bad don't know how 2 control it

plz [my name]

[my name] plz plz

i know i did wrong and how wrong i am

i need u in my life as my friend ur the only 1 Ever here 4 me plz [my name]

i see that now; you see things when they not in front of u anymore

 

Ugh I feel like I need to say something... I won't give in though - not this time.. If I end up saying anything, it would be to tell her it's too late and that everything is gone. All this sound so familiar and yet, part of me is getting pulled back...ugh, help me

[Miss M]

StandtheRain, I should be in bed, but it's as if I couldn't rest, because something urgent is pulling at me, and then I click on to respond and find this new post from you. Please hang in there, sweetheart, and don't give in... I wrote something in response to your previous post, so I'll post it, and then will think on this next more recent bit.

 

There are particular things my ex says to me that actually makes me sort of "self conscious" (if that's the correct term). For example, her saying that I always think I'm perfect makes me think that I don't blame myself enough for things and I hate feeling that way. I keep telling her that I'm far from perfect and that I'm not that great of a person - but every time we fight, she would ALWAYS make an effort to point that out; that I think I'm "so perfect". I can't stand it every time she says that.

In an emotionally abusive relationship, the abuser gradually programs the person being abused into wrongly believing that she is in fact, the villainess, instead of the victim. The person being abused gradually gets brainwashed into taking responsibility for the abuse that she receives. The victim also begins to blame herself for the harm that is being inflicted on her, thinking it's her fault, and/or thinking she deserves it. The victim even begins to see herself as the abuser, and she sees the abuser as the victim. All of this backward thinking has been instigated and reinforced by the actual abuser who employs confusing and insidious methods of instilling guilt, self-blame, self-accusation in the victim. Eventually the victim loses more and more of her perspective on reality, and can only perceive herself in the way the abuser has taught her. She begins to believe she is a villainess, and even apologizes to her abuser whenever she has been abused.

 

In some ways, the reality of the situation peeks through now and then, and the victim might come to know intellectually that she is being mistreated. But the programming is so overwhelming to her emotions that she feels unable to break free.

 

 

Why did all of this happen? ... It happened because you're a kind, generous, and trusting person who is able to care about someone else with all your heart. It happened because you're the exact opposite of the kind of person she has described you to be.

When you tell me all that, I know you mean what you say - however, at the same time, I have this feeling inside me that won't let me believe that (what you said, not you ). It's weird because I'm aware and conscious that I'm feeling this way and I know I shouldn't be, but I can't change the way I feel.

Sweetheart, I know exactly how you feel as you describe this because your words here are exactly the same way I felt when I was trying to break free. When friends described me as innocent, I used to even argue with them, telling them I was really the awful villainess. They tried to tell me that my sister was the horrible villainess who abusing me, and I used to tell them they just couldn't see what a really horrible person I was, that I was the one who was abusing her. I flip-flopped back and forth, being angry with her, then being angry with myself for being a horrible sister to her. It will take a while for the feelings to get turned the right way round, and in the meantime you have to try as best you can to be kind to yourself. And all of us go through doubtful periods before we finally get to a point of saying "no more." So please don't compare yourself unfavorably to those who seem stronger. I've had many years of falling back into the hole again and again, before I finally got out.

 

If you're able I would suggest that you completely stop reading her emails because they pull on your emotions too much. As I read what she wrote you, it brought back a flood of memories of that same kind of "pull" that was done to me countless times. In her way of writing I can see exactly how she's manipulating you in subtle ways. It's all like an entangled confused dance. She's playing at being an innocent victim, and also throwing in some seductive affection towards you which is designed to pull on your emotions. She's also mixing in some hints of regret and apology, that's also a way to pull on your emotions. When she does that it instills a bit of hope, and makes you think you overreacted. And it also makes you think that holding on just a tiny bit longer might finally give you what you've always wanted. It's all designed to create longing and hunger, to keep you hanging on to one last thread of hope. But also notice that she added in some big doses of blame pointing right at you.

 

For example this statement, "But in the real i can NEVER hate you no matter what i said that night, it's was all out of anger which I'm not saying was right to say all those things but most of the time i don't know how to handle my anger when things look so bad or things are throw at me and i know that's one of the worse things about me," is all a complete smokescreen. In one rambling sentence she implied that you mistreated her, ("I can NEVER hate you" and "things are thrown at me") and then switched back to hinting that she was the one who mistreated you. So which is it that she is talking about? This kind of double message is very typical of an abuser, blaming you and simultaneously blaming herself so you can't actually pin down exactly what's being said.

 

And this bit is the seductive part... "in the real you were my best friend i don't feel like i can talk to anyone about half of the stuff that i do with you...."...

This puts you in a "special" category that is meant to flatter you. In this statement you are being seduced by being told that in comparison to ALL others in her life, you go in a very special and exclusive category where no one else can go. She is putting you on a pedestal, stroking your ego, but it's all just a slick and seductive maneuver that is meant to trap you again.

 

---------

Now her text has come in, and she has resorted to the "pleading" and "confessing" stage. Now she's willingly "owning" all the bad treatment of you and begging for forgivness. This is also a time that many "victims" get showered with romance and beautiful gifts. This is also ALL VERY TYPICAL OF ABUSERS, but please don't give in. If you don't respond, it's possible that you'll see her switch right back into accusation and cruel anger, and that will be very sobering for you. The difficult part for you right now is to sit with the feelings of obligation and longing. Those feelings will torture you, but it's really much better to sit with them than to respond to her just to have to go through all of this again down the road.

[StandtheRain]

Miss M, I'm trying really hard to not read any of she sends me (either via text or email) but I keep having the urge to read them - I'm not sure if it's just plain curiosity or something else.. I received a second email from her two days ago (I'll quote the main parts again and I roughly cleaned up some of the sentences so it would be more easily understood):

 

 

 

I felt slightly bad after reading that, but it hit me that I shouldn't. I thought it seemed easier this time around to not have her make me feel guilty but I probably spoke too soon. That same day I received several texts from her (and I ended up responding once) [fixed some of her messages because it's even messier when it's through text]:

 

 

 

Throughout all her messaging, I was tempted to answer her..I only gave in slightly when I finally said 'it was too late'. But I held back from saying anything more. I thought that the texting would end there (at least for the day) but a couple of minutes later I received a couple more:

 

 

 

Then soon afterwards things started to become more desperate sounding (there was just some more "say something please" and etc. - similar to the above so I jumped ahead):

 

 

 

The part about her mom made me feel really bad inside.. I feel like I should at least talk to her again but at the same time, I know I shouldn't. Am I really putting her through so much pain by not speaking to her?

 

 

 

This final message made me worry a lot. I'm afraid she would end up doing something to herself if she becomes desperate - I don't know what to do; I mean I never intended for things to be like this on her.

[Miss M]

STR, now I feel like begging too, only I want to say please, please, please don't let her get to you. It's obvious that she's a classic abuser. She's really a textbook case for how an abuser acts when her partner finally pulls away.

 

What she's doing is sooo awful. And it's so familiar to me. Stay strong honey, please, and no matter what, don't answer any at all. She will give up much faster if you continue to just ignore, ignore, ignore. Every time you respond, even in the tiniest way, it will set you back again, and it will make her try even harder. So it's just easier for your sake if you just don't respond at all. Your silence will finally make her stop because she feeds on your attention, and the silence starves her. She will give up when she's no longer being fed, so just don't feed her. But any small response from you will just encourage her to keep it going and going and going. She will never ever quit if you respond.

 

Her: this is as worse as me losing my mom [my name] plz

This kind of stuff just amazes me. The guy I knew also lost his mom after I initiated NC. But when he mother passed, his very first impulse was to call me up to use his own mother's death as a way to try to manipulate me. It was like "my mother just died, so now you HAVE to talk to me." Ugh. He and I had mutual friends, but he didn't call any of them who would have run immediately to comfort him in his bereavement. He completely forgot about all his other friends and just called me. I was totally stunned by that, and it taught me a lot about how they function, about how they think. Every episode or tragedy, even the death of their own mothers, is a tool to use to manipulate their victims. STR, she is not really suffering in regard to her mother in the way it seems. She is miserable because she has lost her only outlet for her emotional violence and rage. Please don't go back to someone who would try to manipulate you with her own mother's death.