Religion and Homosexuality

[FoxLocke]

How has religion (not spirituality) affected your life as a gay man or lesbian?

 

I ask because, as I've mentioned before, I come from a very traditional Christian background. I've been raised under the Pentacostal Baptist faith since birth. And now, for the first time in my life, I am really beginning to question my beliefs and analyze things, a lot.

 

My religious background tells me that my feelings and sexual desires are an abombmination toward god, and if I act on them I am sinning against the lord and all that other good stuff...But I continually ask the question, "If it is so wrong then why did god, in all of his(or her) infinite love and wisdom, decide to make me be gay?"

 

A few years ago I would not have DARED asked myself that question, because I was too busy trying to be a straight(literally and figuratively)Christian person. But now, I have to second guess everything I've been taught. I still believe in an omnipotent and omniscent creator of the universe who loves me unconditionally...But what I no longer believe in is the religious dogma and hypocrisy that I've dealt with in church.

 

Most of my family is very RELIGIOUS, meaning that they goto church all the time...But they sure don't mind sinning on everyday but Sunday.

Case In Point: I've basically lived my life as a monk, by choice, because I was obeying the bible. I also made straight A's in school; I was on the art Honor's society in highschool; and I'm a straight A English major now. I've done volunteer work for needy children and all that other stuff...I don't have any kids(for obvious reasons)running around, and I've only had one speeding ticket...Basically, I have been a stand up citizen my entire life.

However, the people around me have children scattered about, have been to jail, do drugs, goto the club and get trashed on Saturday but are in the church choir on Sunday singing about how much they love Jesus...

And these are the same people who talk about gay people being sinful, and the reason we had such a terrible hurricane season...

One Sunday, about six years ago, we had a guest Pastor at our church who hadn't prepared a sermon(obviously)so, expectedly, he preached a venomous homophobic sermon about how he thought Gay men and women were repulsive and he doesn't see how a man can want another man and a woman could want another woman...Fastforward one year, and this same upstanding minister was put in jail for using his wife's face as an Everlast punching bag.

My former pastor was vehemently anti-gay rights, and preached about how horrible gays were as well. Our choir director, who was openly gay, was kicked out of church, by this particular pastor(who has just started leading the church) after working there for over 10 years...Against, fast forward approximately two years later. The same pastor was arrested on Child Molestation charges...He is a registered sex offender to this day.

 

In the last year or so I have completely stopped going to church because I am so tired of being told that I am going to hell for something that I can't change. I would like to attend a gay friendly church though...

I used to goto an ex-gay conversion therapy group(unbeknownst to my family), and all of it is such a big fraud. The only thing they could tell me was pray daily and believe that you can change and you will be changed...Well, I did that. I prayed and prayed and prayed...And the only conclusion I came to was that god wasn't listening or he didn't want me to change.

Lately, I've been reading the bible a lot more and interpreting for myself. I was always told, in Sunday school class, that "I should never question anything about god...just believe it." Well, that is not good enough for me anymore, and now I have A LOT of questions.

Like why does the bible say that we are free moral agents, but if we "choose" to be gay then it's an abomination? How can god give us free will and then put a stipulation on it?

The Old Testament of the bible also says that eating pork is a sin. So I guess a lot of people are going to hell for that too...

The bible also endorses slavery and abuse of women as well as marital infidelity and bigamy. And I hate when people quote that passage from Leviticus( I can't remember it)to condemn homosexuality...That passage was about a group of thugs who wanted to gang rape two men. How does that relate to me? I don't want to rape or humiliate anyone. I just want to find a nice guy to settle down with.

I think the old Testament was written by a bunch of elitist, sexist, and homophobic men who wanted complete control of their "flock."

 

Grant it, I still believe in the love of Jesus. For me I believe in that, because it has helped me personally...And I also believe that Jesus came to set us free from all of that. Ironically, I don't see Jesus saying ANYTHING bad about gay people...Yet, no one even listens to him about it.

As far as my overall religion goes I don't really get the whole "church" thing anymore. Why would a god who loves everyone want to condemn everyone to hell for not being the prototypical christian?

 

I kind of needed to rant about this because for so long I've felt like less of a person because my religion said it was bad.

However, when I began praying for god's will in my life I came to the conclusion to accept my gay feelings...and that is when I felt the true love of god smile upon me. That is how I KNOW the way I am isn't wrong or bad, because I feel whole and complete...

I still believe in god, but I don't believe in the dogmatic views of my religion anymore.

 

How has religion affected your life? Has being gay made you more faithful or have you rejected faith completely?

[KIDD]

Hey Foxlocke! I grew up & was raised as a christian as well. I believe in god, however.. I think alot of people just do not UNDERSTAND the bible at all & I think people dwell on it too much.This is my opinion but I really don't believe alot of the stuff that's being said in the bible. Personally, I believe god just wants us to be happy. As long as your not hurting yourself & others... I think god condones what we do! What really flips me out on the part that says masterbation is a sin??? Come on... seriously.. How else are you going to relieve yourself lol!I think alot of the bible was written by man. Something to keep the society in control back in the day & probably was to spook people, so it would stop crime & various other activities. It took me a while to realise it but god is real & he loves us... Even if we die old with someone of the same sex.

[Day_Walker]

It disturbs me that what seemas to be mainstream Christianity preaches this doctrine of hate for homosexuality. People have always used religion to back up their own thoughts and preferences but I dont believe that its the true nature of Christianity to hate any particular segment of the population.

It can be tough to reconcile your faith with being homosexual but you either have to come to terms with it or continue living your life like a monk. I wouldnt knock any position you choose to take but you have to come to terms with what your faith, whatever that means to you.

[blueangel]

a book called Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsh. It opens the door to see GOd in a whole different light as well as the universe. I was in depression for years and that pulled me RIGHT out of it.. it was amazing actually.

 

God will always love you- no matter what. The Bible is not just a bunch of stories put together to tell us how to live. It is also the greatest love story of all time- of a God and His people.

 

I find that nature actually also has a lot of answers. To me, God IS nature (I know that sounds weird).

 

Hope that helps.

[FoxLocke]

It can be tough to reconcile your faith with being homosexual but you either have to come to terms with it or continue living your life like a monk. I wouldnt knock any position you choose to take but you have to come to terms with what your faith, whatever that means to you.

 

Actually, I was stating quite the opposite. I have come to terms with my faith and I no longer plan to live life like a monk. The point was that I believe god made me this way and I fully intend to embrace my sexuality...Meaning, if I find the right guy I am definitely going to get laid!

 

Not to be crude or anything...lol

 

Basically, my little diatribe was meant to ask gay males and females if religious doctrine has inhibited them in life and how they cope with it.

Those are ways that it has hurt me, but now I seek to change it.

I'll always have faith...but "religion" isn't for me.

 

 

a book called Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsh. It opens the door to see GOd in a whole different light as well as the universe. I was in depression for years and that pulled me RIGHT out of it.. it was amazing actually. :smile:

 

God will always love you- no matter what. The Bible is not just a bunch of stories put together to tell us how to live. It is also the greatest love story of all time- of a God and His people.

 

I find that nature actually also has a lot of answers. To me, God IS nature (I know that sounds weird).

 

Hope that helps.

 

I think you are misunderstanding me. My faith in god still remains.

 

My question was to gay men and women and how they feel about religious dogma, not god himself. And whether we want to admit it or not the bible was written by men who implemented their own biases and agendas...

 

My post was to relate my journey to others. Of course ThaKidd understood me, but I think the previous replies missed the mark...

The events that I wrote about were to prove a point that no one is totally perfect or should they try to be...This was about me coming to my own realizations that I have a divine right to be happy and whole as well...

 

That is why I choose to be happy that god made me gay. ***Smile***

[blueangel]

Your happiness is what matters. No one should feel painfully obligated to live a certain way. This is YOUR life and that's what counts. You are the one who gets to choose. Either way, I think you'll live. You are also more than just your sexuality. You are a human and those who dont accept you, dont accept themselves. We should accept people no matter who they are, what they've done or where they are going in life.

 

"If we judge people, we'll have no time to love." - MOther Teresa (i think that's how it goes)

[Jinx]

For myself being raised in an extremely Christian and religious based family environment which is hostile towards the idea of gay men or lesbians, I've lost my interest in religion.

 

At one time if it had not been for the hatred, I'd probably would of considered a Christian life. I have a gay male friend which I've spoke of in many of a post whom lives his life Christian as can be except the homosexuality part, he has few problems except with that half and the extremist part of the homophobic population (whether they're true christians or otherwise), so I realize it is possible.

 

Unfortunately, with the attitudes, following Christianity doesn't impress me. Due to this, I'm an Atheist whom follows an extremely calm law abiding life, thats it for me.

 

Maybe its just me and where I've lived but I've been told many times I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity for supporting gay rights and such (these people don't even know I'm a lesbian, just an open minded supporter).

 

It hurts a bit because as far as being human goes: I don't steal, lies aren't my thing, I don't plan on murdering, I don't hurt people, I try to help anyone needing my help to the best of my ability, I've made donations where I can (even as a college student on a budget here) and I've even helped organizations with religious causes even though I don't belong, I love charity work for that as I volunteer often for such causes. I've never been drunk, I've never done drugs, I did well in High School top of the class, well off GPA in College, I have plans for my future and a career idea which I feel will help others in society. I'm glad I have a moment of peace in my life and that isn't because I'm out partying or anything its because I'm either studying, visiting family and helping out, or helping out residents in the community whom are ill and/or are seniors. Even with all this said and done as soon as I say I believe in gay rights or am a lesbian to the wrong person, the response is, I'm going to burn in hell forever and ever for my sin.

 

Furthermore on the note, this reminds me of a saying I can't quite remember but applies to a certain oversized handful of religious individuals which use a bible to back all the hatred, I believe it was along the lines of - I don't hate Jesus, I hate his groupies - I know that isn't the saying word for word but in general it was the heart of it.

 

I made the comment a certain handful because I don't hate all religious people (all my friends are dedicated to their religions), I can't say I really hate the hating lot either. Its more of an annoyance. It would be less so if those particular individuals could come up with a logical reason for all their arguments without consulting verse and ending with "Because my bible says so, so there." It makes me feel as though I'm going back to third grade saying "I'm right." "Why?" " 'Cause I said so. Nah, nah, nah, nah."

[blueangel]

I personally dont believe in hell.

 

Maybe stop basing your beliefs by those of others. We've all been brainwashed! Care for yourself and love unconditionally. what you give you will receive... and all will be fine in the end. As big as God is, it is also a personal relationship if you'd like to view it that way. When I look at nature, it reminds me that no one "up there" is judging me- they always know my heart and support no matter what. God is the core of the universe, everything... but most of all he's HOME...

 

A place to return to when all are weak and tired. It's not good to fight against yourself especially while not even understanding who you are... or who you're supposed to be. Religion is just a way to try to define GOd. Well, I tell you this: it's impossible. God is everything. Everywhere. At all times and at no time at all. The spirit of all that exists... in you and in me.

 

In you and in me...

[FoxLocke]

At one time if it had not been for the hatred, I'd probably would of considered a Christian life. I have a gay male friend which I've spoke of in many of a post whom lives his life Christian as can be except the homosexuality part, he has few problems except with that half and the extremist part of the homophobic population (whether they're true christians or otherwise), so I realize it is possible.

 

I can really relate to this, Jinx. Right now my religious ideals are in a state of flux.

My faith in a higher power still remains strong, but overall I am rethinking many things..."The good book" in particular. The bible has been instrumental in my life, but at the sametime it's been used to hurt people who are born different.

I don't fault the bible for that. I fault the men who have been interpreting it a certain way for years and years and years...Gay men and women have been around as long, if not longer, than the bible itself...I guess, now that I've opened my mind a bit more I want to interpret the words and see where I--a gay man who believes that god made him this way--fit into the equation.

I just don't understand how preachers can continually pastor to their church that being gay is wrong or bad, knowing full well that there are people in their congregations that ARE gay and unable to change. It is not a spirit of unwillingness...It is because we CAN'T change.

 

 

A place to return to when all are weak and tired. It's not good to fight against yourself especially while not even understanding who you are... or who you're supposed to be. Religion is just a way to try to define GOd. Well, I tell you this: it's impossible. God is everything. Everywhere. At all times and at no time at all. The spirit of all that exists... in you and in me.

 

In you and in me...

 

 

Now, this I completely agree with. I do believe in the infinence and omnicience of a higher power(as I stated at the top of the thread)...and I believe that god is everything and all things.

That is why, since coming out about my true sexuality, I've been trying to reconcile the god energy to my own religious background...and then I realize the awesome force is bigger than ANY religion...

Which is why I am presently learning about the different world religions...Because I want to know how other people believe as well.

 

The main purpose behind my thread was to see how religion has affected gays and lesbians in their lives and hearts.

[blueangel]

You have a well balanced head then.

 

I used to have a crush (dont laugh!) on an anime (Japanese animation) girl named Michiru because she was described as soft and sweet and deep and different. She was also a lesbian in this...er...cartoon. (what? I was younger!) and I was obsessed with printing out her pictures and making a scrapbook. Who she was to me just took my breath away and I think the fact that she WAS a lesbian brought out feelings for her. I was also (as I said younger) 13 at the time, which to me, is the hardest year I've been through because my hormones were everywhere. I would actually break down a lot.

 

Well, then I met a guy on the internet (which I swear I'm never doing again- I never stopped to think how dangerous that COULD have been) and all thoughts of her silently slipped away leading me to open another door.

 

It really is about choice of feelings- we really can do that. But I could never be attracted sexually to a girl. Yes, I could convince myself into it overtime and maybe I would have- if it weren't for Dan, my first love... and the one who made me see how much I loved penises! (sorry for language hehe)

 

But it wasnt until I really, really, experienced that... that I knew what was right for me.

 

(obviously, what I am saying here...is yes, I am straight. lol)

[Prufrock06]

I suppose my experience with sexuality and religion is a bit different from some of the other posters in this thread. I wasn't raised under any particular religion, but rather under all of them, so to speak. My father is a Muslim and my mother a Methodist so the way my sisters and I were raised religiously speaking was that all religions are inherently the same at a fundamental level (an ironic use of the word, I know) in the sense that they all stress a believe in a higher power, a higher calling, a higher purpose, whatever that power/calling/purpose may be: Jesus, Allah, Krishna, Yaweh, Buddha, etc. etc. etc. So every weekend my father would take us to a different place of worship: sometimes we went to a synagogue, other times to a mosque, numerous churches (Catholic, Methodist, Unitarian). Most of the time, however, we alternated between a local Unitarian Universalist church and a community mosque and it was in these two places that I cultivated some sense of spirituality and faith.

 

But to be honest, I tended to gravitate more towards the Unitarian church for many reasons: one of which was the way in which their faith and community openly embraced homosexuality -- something I found pleasant even though at the time I was still denying that I was gay myself. I suppose in a way during my youth my adamant support for gay rights and equality was the result of a kind of repressed recognition that I was gay myself. Anyway, contrast this with the mosque and other places where homosexuality was either a) not discussed or b) decried in the same manner that other posters have talked about.

 

Though I don't belong to a particular religious faith as of today, I still have great respect for all religions, despite the movements of fundamentalism that plague ALL of them, not just Christianity and Islam. I guess my own personal faith is rooted more in spirituality; in the idea of something out there greater than myself that I accept I have no way of understanding completely and that religion and faith is a means of interpreting that "greatness" and applying it to our daily life. Some days I would call myself an agnostic, but for the most part, I feel I've lived too long and seen to much not to think that there is SOMETHING (whatever that may be) that's at work here in this crazy thing called life.

 

In the context of my sexuality, I suppose this open view of faith and religion made accepting myself easier perhaps than some others who have been raised in a specific religious environment that constantly criticized and shunned homosexuality. Most of my issues with suppressing my true feelings and desires were the result of social phobias, not necessarily religious ones. Though I was terrified of telling my father I was gay given his religious background -- however, he is a very open-minded, liberal Muslim (ie. he drinks liquor and eats pork and doesn't necessarily pray all the time -- he's more into spirituality which I suppose is where I get that from). He does not agree with homosexuality on religious and moral principles, but he made sure to tell me that he separates that from the fact that I am his son and he loves me, as I'm sure I've mention in earlier posts.

 

But I feel like embracing my sexuality and learning to live as a proud gay guy has definitely aided my own sense of personal spirituality and faith. I feel more connected to myself on a personal and spiritual level -- I feel more fulfilled, more positive about my presense on this earth, which is exactly what I think religion is supposed to do. I've always believe religion is a very personal matter in the sense that everyone has issues with their faith at times, everyone questions their motives and beliefs. That, however, is all a part of having faith -- I've questioned my beliefs at times, made changes, compromises, etc. etc. I don't think of faith as something that's static, that can never be changed. It's not carved in stone like the Ten Commandments but rather it's fluid -- it shifts and changes and morphs the older we get and the more life experience we gain. I have no doubt that ten years from now, my faith and religious beliefs could very well shift in any number of directions. I could become an atheist or fall in love with a Christian and convert to Christianity (or fill in the blank with any other faith or denomination). And being comfortable with that shifting nature of faith, with the idea that it's ever changing, makes me more comfortable about my sexuality and helps me to think that I can be a perfectly happy, perfectly successful gay male despite societal pressures and stereotypes or the constant damnation of homosexuality by preachers of all faiths.

 

Wow, this was a great question! Made me think about myself a lot! Hope it helped give you the perspective you were looking for!

[Loneangel79]

Hi FoxLocke! I'm a gay male christian as well (Catholics Altar Boy to be exact for the last 9 years) and I agree with all that you've said. I applaud you for your deep and meaningful insights. I feel that God has made us the way we are and he loves us regardless of our sexual preferences. I do not believe in all that the Church says anymore - the reason why I don't go to confessions, amongst other things. I've always been gay and accepted that long ago. But only recently did I started telling my closest friends. I haven't told my folks yet (Asian Parents and I'm the eldest son too! Just not fair!). Any advice on this???

Keep up the good thoughts.

OH! and never stop looking for Mr. Right. He's out there somewhere

[pianoguy]

I was raised in the Catholic Church mainly for ethnic reasons, although my family didn't really care much about the doctrine. Although many gay people are justifiably terrified of this most homophobic of all churches, the truth is it's actually not a bad church to be raised gay in. Most of the homophobia is in the administration (the archbishops, cardinals, and most bishops). Lay Catholics are traditionally much more liberal than their Protestant brethren, and I strongly suspect we have the highest percentage of gay clergy than any other church. The priests at my home church never once gave a sermon on the issue in the 20 years I was there, probably because I'm fairly sure at least one of them was gay. There was and still is a lesbian couple that is very active and visible in the congregation, one of those ladies is actually now a lay minister, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the nuns are lesbians. I'm sure it has always been this way in this church.

 

As I became more politically aware, there came a point at which I felt the church betrayed me. They were one of the strongest supporters of an amendment to the Michigan constitution to ban gay marriage (it passed). I felt I could no longer support such a church, and stopped donating money, although I continued to attend Mass fairly regularly. A turning point came when I discovered the Episcopal Church, which is basically the English version of Catholicism. They recently ordained a gay bishop and do not believe that homosexual acts are a sin. I attended the church and felt such a sense of healing that I nearly wept during communion. The best part was it was only a very slight change from the church I was used to.

 

Recently I have gotten a job as a church organist at a Methodist Church, and that has also been a very positive experience. Although I miss the Mass and the ritual that goes with it. The Methodist Church has historically been a liberal American church devoted to social justice (they were one of the strongest supporters of abolition). They are currently in a big fight over homosexuality, and while the council made some somewhat homophobic decisions recently, it is clear they are moving in the right direction. The Methodist bishops were displeased with the decisions of the council, and my parish issued a statment saying how the decision was contrary to the will of God.

 

In terms of my personal spirituality, the main affect that homosexuality has had on me has been that I have become highly critical of the Bible. I never have put much stock in that book, but the more I read it the less respect I have for it (except the Gospels). But the truth is, no one really believes the entire Bible is true word for word, not even the most ardent evangelicals. If they did they would be following Jewish law and the bizarre dictates of Leviticus as you mentioned.

 

My advice to you would be to find a church you like. Identify why it is you go to church and find a church that accepts you. I think church is important, in theory we should be able to worship individually, but we are social animals and it's always much more satisfying to worship as a group.

 

I'm sorry you had to be raised in the Baptist tradition. That is a bad, intolerant church that embodies few or none of Jesus's teachings. I'd recommend the Episcopal Church, but it is a pretty major change from the Baptists. Look around, find something you like.

[FoxLocke]

In terms of my personal spirituality, the main affect that homosexuality has had on me has been that I have become highly critical of the Bible. I never have put much stock in that book, but the more I read it the less respect I have for it (except the Gospels). But the truth is, no one really believes the entire Bible is true word for word, not even the most ardent evangelicals. If they did they would be following Jewish law and the bizarre dictates of Leviticus as you mentioned.

 

 

This is very true. With the exception of the gospels(Because I still believe in Jesus Christ, for very personal reasons) I am highly critical of the bible altogether...

Lately, I have been feeling myself gravitate towards learning about other religions like Buddhism and Taoism and other Eastern Philosophies...

Even though I believe in god and Jesus Christ as the(my) savior...I'm in flux about which particular "religion" I truly agree with.

 

Thank you for enlightening me about Catholicism and Episcopaliens...I always thought, from what I've read, that they were even more homophobic than the Southern Baptist church.

Right now, I am really exploring a lot of things that I have been afraid to in the past.