Diggity's Dating Advice, Nice Guys WAKE UP!

[Dating Coach]

***I posted this last night but it was removed for some language that I corrected. I thought I toned it down enough but I guess I didn't so here it is again, even more toned down.***

 

This may come off as harsh, but it's meant to be that way because it is a wake up call. Also, don't dwell on what your definition of "Nice Guy" or "Jerk" is, because that's not the point of the thread. The point is what Nice Guys do. But, to clear up some stuff, let me clarify what a few labels mean before we start:

 

Nice Guy: When I use this I am referring to the guy who tends to fall hard for a girl but always seems to be stuck in the friendzone. He means well but he just doesn't get it.

 

Jerk: This guy may not even really be a jerk. He may simply be no more than the boyfriend of the girl the Nice Guy crushes on. She complains to the Nice Guy about the Jerk when things get rough, but the Nice Guy only listens to her side of the story and assumes the guy really is a Jerk. He may just be a guy who stands up for himself and his girlfriend might be the one at fault, so they fight alot.

 

Gentleman: The true Nice Guy that you want to be. He respects himself and is a man's man, but he also kows how to be good to a lady. However she better be a good lady or he won't hesistate to kick her butt to the curb and find a woman worth being with.

 

Okay, now that the definitions have passed, here is the Dating Lesson:

 

Diggity's Dating Advice 101: Lesson 1

 

This is about "Nice Guys" who try being friends with a woman they have interest in dating because they don't have enough confidence to make their move.

These guys eventually end up falling harder and harder for the girl the more time they spend with them as their buddy-and after enough time passes he ends up spilling his guts to her about his crush. She generally is shocked (or not) and rejects him nicely, not wanting to hurt his feelings.

 

What is up with you guys who go and be buddy buddy with a girl that you are interested in hooking up with? Don't you know that all you will ever be is her emotional tampon/shoulder to cry on? You sit there and listen to this girls problems, you listen to her complain about her "jerk" boyfriend and you give her the attention she wants, but in the end you get jack while she goes home and rides the "jerks" schlong and not yours. What are you doing!? You might as well learn how to shop and try on nail polish because you are her male girlfriend! You aren't going to win her this way! Have some self respect and don't let yourself be used this way!

Quit hanging out with the object of your affection! Grow a sac, get some guy friends, do guy things! Being the sensitive male girlfriend isn't going to win her over! Just look at the results dummy! If this approach was successful you wouldn't hear so many guys whining and complaining about how women only want "jerks". The only thing this will get you is stories about her boyfriend and how big his schlong is!

 

Yeah, yeah, she will tell you all about how perfect you are and how she doesn't understand why you are single-and she is probably being honest-but she doesn't want you for herself and probably doesn't even understand why. She can't explain why and if she tries her answer would be that you are just friends and she sees you like a brother (or something to that effect). Why is that? Because you never tried to come on to her like a confident guy with a large pair would-and if you did come on to her you just never took the hint that she wasn't interested. Thats why you are still single! Girls aren't attracted to clingy wussy "nice guys"! This approach is horrible!

 

If you like a girl then do something about it immediately, don't sit around being her buddy! Avoid the friendzone at all costs! To do that she needs to see you as a potential boyfriend and she wont see you that way if you play hesitant. They say a most women decide (consciously or subconsciously) within the first few minutes of meeting a guy whether or not she is interested in him. Meet a girl, keep the conversation short, and freaking close the deal! Get those digits or a date right away! If you hesistate or try to be the "nice sensitive guy" then you are holding back on what you really want and she will eventually think of a buddy, not as a guy she would be interested in dating.

 

Remember, women want a guy who is a man, a guy who has plenty of confidence and self respect. He takes the initiative to go after what he wants, refuses to be walked on (even by her-which IMO is where the "jerk" confusion comes into play), and is a stand up guy. These are the guys scoring with the girl of your dreams while you "nice guys" are the ones being her shoulder to cry on, showering her with attention but getting nothing in return. Grow a sac gentleman.

____________________________

 

I know that came off harsh, but I gotta get the conversation rolling, and I need to slap these guys awake. It also isn't meant to be the end all be all advice... it's just the start. More to come.

[DiscipleOfChange]

These are the guys scoring with the girl of your dreams while you "nice guys" are the ones being her shoulder to cry on, showering her with attention but getting nothing in return. Grow a sac gentleman.

 

Dude, there's more to attraction than wanting to get laid. In fact, I would argue that more women would appreciate a guy who's intentions were more sincere and less shallow than only wanting sex.

 

Meet a girl, keep the conversation short, and freaking close the deal! Get those digits or a date right away!

 

As far as this is concerned, I know many women at least at my age and in college wouldn't warm up very quickly to a guy who asks for a number and/or a date the very first time he talks with her, especially if the conversation is short.

 

They say a most women decide (consciously or subconsciously) within the first few minutes of meeting a guy whether or not she is interested in him.

 

THEY say a lot of things, some of which have truth to them, others do not. People have a tendency of growing on others and while some people may become attracted to others on first sight or within minutes of meeting someone, that type of attraction is usually only skin deep. I hold that only after getting to know a person better can you really determine whether or not you love them. Being "interested" in someone often only means finding them attractive and I'm sorry dude but there's too much other stuff of merit within a person to base your feelings on looks alone.

[Demonblade]

Really, it's not that they don't have the confidence to make their moves. Snow, my best friend, was just a friend in my eyes for 4 and a half years. Then I started to develop a crush on her last year. I told her how I felt about her a couple months later. She wasn't shocked and she didn't reject me.

 

And plus, incase you didn't know. Some of the best friendships turn into one of the best relationships. And you don't know what all women and all girls are interested in. Some women and some girls are interested in the nice guys you are reffering to and some aren't. No, they aren't interested in them because they are desperate or something.

 

Who cares if they were interested in the girl before or after they started a friendship with them? It doesn't matter. there is always a 50/50 chance that she will be or already is interested in the guy. No one can tell who they are and are not going to fall for ahead of time.

[Sam _]

You need to look at the big picture. I think you need to find a different source than the one you got this from, Diggity.

[Dating Coach]

Dude, there's more to attraction than wanting to get laid. In fact, I would argue that more women would appreciate a guy who's intentions were more sincere and less shallow than only wanting sex.

 

I never said you should only be getting into a girls pants. And why would you argue that women would appreciate a guy who's intentions were more sincere and less shallow than only wanting sex if I am not arguing against that point, nor have ever even made that point?

 

As far as this is concerned, I know many women at least at my age and in college wouldn't warm up very quickly to a guy who asks for a number and/or a date the very first time he talks with her, especially if the conversation is short.

 

That's a load of BS. Of course you need to have tact, but there is absolutely NO HARM in approaching a woman, initiating a good conversation, and asking for her number. Nothing at all. What, do you think that approaching a girl, talking to her, then leaving, then coming back the next day, talking to her some more, then leaving, and repeating this a dozen times before asking for her number catches her off guard? She is very aware of what you are likely doing, and it reeks of desperation if you don't have the nerve to ask her for her number until you become "comfortable". In fact, that is how most guys get stuck in the dreaded friendzone. They play Captain Cautious until they fall superhard for the girl and eventually spill their guts to her. It hurts a lot more to get rejected at that point than if you found out where you stood with her right away. Besides, if you use that approach it is YOU who are playing games, not someone who is upfront and honest about being attracted to a girl.

You also ignore the fact that girls aren't so innocent themselves. Like most men, most women are attracted to the opposite sex, and are open to meet new and interesting people. If you can approach a woman lightly, make good conversation, and ask for her number, you are not sending her a message that you are only after sex. If you keep it light and innocent and she still thinks that all you want is sex and refuses to give you her number, then she is either using that as an excuse to get away from you, or she is just a paranoid freako. This is how people meet.

 

THEY say a lot of things, some of which have truth to them, others do not. People have a tendency of growing on others and while some people may become attracted to others on first sight or within minutes of meeting someone, that type of attraction is usually only skin deep. I hold that only after getting to know a person better can you really determine whether or not you love them. Being "interested" in someone often only means finding them attractive and I'm sorry dude but there's too much other stuff of merit within a person to base your feelings on looks alone.

 

What the heck is that crud? You never heard of simply dating? There is NOTHING wrong with DATING someone to get to know them. I think you are making excuses up because you don't have the guts to actually ask a girl out.

Look bro, I am not your enemy and I am not trying to insult you, but this is just silly. You are trying to counter my point with something that just doesn't make sense and it sounds like an excuse.

You are making it sound like it is such a bad thing to meet a girl, ask for her number, and get to know her by dating. Instead, you suggest that you keep your attraction quiet, play the friend role, then if that attraction turns into love then you can try to ask her out. Sheesh, if that is not a recipe for disaster then what is? This is EXACTLY how most guys fall into the friendzone trap, where they are madly head over heels for a girl who only wants to remain friends. Instead, why not try finding out as soon as you can where you stand with her. If you are interesting enough to her, she will go out on a date with you. If not, then you know she has no interest. Saves you a lot of time.

 

It also sounds like you are WAY TOO WORRIED about what other people-especially girls-think about you. If your intentions are NOT just about sex, and you ARE interested in getting to know people, then why do you care so much about what a girl who is a complete stranger thinks about you approaching her? Do you always try to please everyone? That is definitely setting you up for a long road of being a doormat.

[dreamy333]

i agree with this to an extent....i have 3 friends who want to hook up with me but thats all they are is friends

[Dating Coach]

Really, it's not that they don't have the confidence to make their moves. Snow, my best friend, was just a friend in my eyes for 4 and a half years. Then I started to develop a crush on her last year. I told her how I felt about her a couple months later. She wasn't shocked and she didn't reject me.

 

For one, that is a different situation. You didn't go into your friendship with that girl with the intentions of being trying to hook up with her. Second, even if it was, there are always exceptions to the rule, that's true in basically everything in life, but talking about exceptions is pointless. i find that it give too many people false hope because they always want to believe that it is their situation that is the exception.

[Dating Coach]

You need to look at the big picture. I think you need to find a different source than the one you got this from, Diggity.

 

What are you talking about? I am my own source. I've been helping people out for about 3 years now with uncanny accuracy. I've spent 4 years of my life studying dating and relationships, and I currently post on 4 different boards daily to help other people get through problems that I once had in my life.

 

This is the youngest message board by far that I have been to, and I can already tell by the responses I am getting. All this means is that I will have to try harder.

[Dating Coach]

i agree with this to an extent....i have 3 friends who want to hook up with me but thats all they are is friends

 

You have three admirers. I bet they still hold hopes that you will eventually decide that you like them too. Part of it is because they are naive, and the other part of it is that they are your friends and you don't want to tell them, "HEY! I will NEVER be atttracted you, EVER. Okay?"

 

Girls always want to let guys down easily, they don't want to hurt their feelings. It's the woman's nuturing side. The problem with letting a guy with a bad crush down easily, is that he probably will not give up hope. I know, when I was 16 I did the same thing, several times.

[DiscipleOfChange]

"I think you are making excuses up because you don't have the guts to actually ask a girl out."

 

Calm down hoss, I've got guts and I've asked girls out.

 

"It also sounds like you are WAY TOO WORRIED about what other people-especially girls-think about you."

 

"then why do you care so much about what a girl who is a complete stranger thinks about you approaching her?"

 

I don't. 'nuff said

 

"]I never said you should only be getting into a girls pants"

 

not directly, but you do talk about how "the other guy" is the one who the girl is riding and whose schlong whe's talking about

 

"initiating a good conversation, and asking for her number."

 

Now that sounds better. I just didn't like the short conversation idea. and I'm not suggesting an hour long conversation, but its important that the convo is tactful and doesn't revolve around getting a number

 

" There is NOTHING wrong with DATING someone to get to know them"

 

I agree, but sometimes, the other party isn't comfortable enough with you to date but wouldn't object to get to know you better more casually.

 

"If you are interesting enough to her, she will go out on a date with you. If not, then you know she has no interest. Saves you a lot of time. "

 

not necessarily always true. Example, if I had asked the girls I know out on a date the first time I talked with them or asked for their number, I would not have been nearly as successful as I have been by waiting for a good opportunity to ask.

 

" Do you always try to please everyone?"

 

No, I don't

[Dating Coach]

*Whew!*

 

Please edit and fix the quotes so I can respond, hahaha!

[RayKay]

I actually agree with many of your points Diggity..maybe came accross as harsh, but I have always said I wanted a man who treated me well, but whom also was his own person, whom was confident and funny, considerate and caring and respectful, but also would not be walked over (ie self respect). One whom fulfills my emotional needs as well I do his. One who does not put me on a pedestal, but nor walks over me (ie NOT a jerk). I have never dated jerks, and I have never dated doormats. Sure, I may have gone on a date or two with some of them, but realized then their character and withdrawn myself from that situation and not allowed it to go further, because I do know what I look for.

 

By your definitions then, a gentleman. A woman deserves respect, love, care, just like the man does, however that does not mean she always wants to be revered even when she does not deserve it, made love to softly everytime you are intimate, be told she is right when she is clearly not...it's a balance really, and you need to find out what the woman YOU are interested in needs for HER own individual emotional fulfillment.

 

And, I fell madly in love with one and he with me.

 

I knew lots of the "nice guys" in your definition of them, and that was just it, they came off as very well...almost not present. A good example - I knew there was one guy who had a crush on me...problem was he almost never talked to me, he never took a chance to ask me out (and before you said anything, no I was not going to ask him because I honestly had NO idea whom he even was at that point, he was so timid it was a turn off to me...if he HAD asked me I would of at least probably gone out at least ONCE because I would of admired him for doing something, and to get to know him more). I found out from another friend that he actually DID like me. That is the hard truth for me....I want a guy who is NICE, but not one whom is "nice" to point he is not even present, or noticeable as someone with confidence, opinions, and so forth.

 

Are there relationships that build out of friendship - definitely. And at the core of EVERY successful HEALTHY relationship friendship is integral, as it is in mine. However, the mistake is where the friendship is false because one is always using it for more, as a stepping stone. Not as genuine friendship that just happens to end up as more. If you see she is not reciprocating, get out there and date and meet others...if anything she will either realize she wants you all to herself, or she won't care, and then you KNOW that you need to look elsewhere. Because just because you like someone, does not mean they are obligated to return the feelings either. Of course, often I see if she does not return the feelings, she must like jerks...

 

What also bothers me...is that "jerks" are so quickly labelled, when the whole story is not known, or it negates idea that sometimes a relationship has conflict - it does not mean it is a bad relationship! I too often see "nice guys" saying "I would NEVER treat a woman like that, I would never fight with her like that"..."if she left him and was with me she would be happy"...the fact is relationships often WILL have friction, they are not fairytales. Sometimes you will get angry with one another...that does not mean either of you are jerks...not if you still respect one another, come back together, communicate, talk, and work things through to find a solution to the issue. It's beautiful to think that everyday you and your partner will cuddle, and gaze in one another eye's and never say a harsh word...but the reality is even in the most loving partnerships, sometimes life gets to you anyway...it's not how often you fight, its about HOW you fight.

 

There is more, but I have to run to a meeting I of course know not EVERY woman will think like me, I am just saying a couple points that I notice in many of the nice guy posts.

[Sam _]

You need to look at the big picture. I think you need to find a different source than the one you got this from, Diggity.

 

What are you talking about? I am my own source. I've been helping people out for about 3 years now with uncanny accuracy. I've spent 4 years of my life studying dating and relationships, and I currently post on 4 different boards daily to help other people get through problems that I once had in my life.

 

This is the youngest message board by far that I have been to, and I can already tell by the responses I am getting. All this means is that I will have to try harder.

 

Well, I'm not trying to insult you or you're proffession and I'm sorry if I did. I'm saying that you seem to be targeting this on all, or most, guys that fall for a girlfriend of theirs. I applaud how insightful it was, but it didn't seem (to me anyway) to have come from the opinions of other women.

 

What do you mean the you can tell this is the youngest board just by the responses you're getting? Age has nothing to do with it if thats what you mean.

[Dating Coach]

Wonderfully said! Bravo!

 

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Every relationship has problems/friction and a lot of these doormat guys think that, "Oh well I wouldn't argue with her about that" or "I wouldn't do that", it's silly. In fact, that is also a HUGE problem. Relationships aren't fairy tales, they are a lot of work. If you only try to make your partner happy by backing down on an argument, or by always giving your partner what they want, then you WILL lose that person, because they will lose respect for you. Why? What about you? How attractive do you think you can be when you give give give give to your partner? You are basically worshipping her like a goddess if you do that. No respectful woman wants this, they don't want to be a partner with a worshipper, they want a MAN. A guy who has too much self respect to allow himself to be taken advantage of-ESPECIALLY by her.

 

But anyway, that is all besides the point of the thread, since the thread is about dating rather than a relationship.

[Dating Coach]

Well, I'm not trying to insult you or you're proffession and I'm sorry if I did. I'm saying that you seem to be targeting this on all, or most, guys that fall for a girlfriend of theirs. I applaud how insightful it was, but it didn't seem (to me anyway) to have come from the opinions of other women.

 

What do you mean the you can tell this is the youngest board just by the responses you're getting? Age has nothing to do with it if thats what you mean.

 

I usually post on boards where people are primarily between the ages of 21-35. On those boards I've received less misinterpretations and naiveness in a week than I have here in a couple hours. I think it has to do with lack of experience from people who are 15-19 years old.

 

Understand one thing, in todays society there is this image that men receive about how they are supposed to be to women, and this image is silly. To start with, don't get me wrong. I am a huge believer in treating a woman with respect and love, but what I am even a bigger believer in, is being treated with respect and love. If a woman doesn't treat you right, then you had better stand up for yourself no matter what the cost. If your new girlfriend wrongs you or insults you in public or wherever, and you are too afraid to stand up and call her out because you don't want to lose her, then you are a doormat, and you WILL lose her anyway eventually. She will eventually lose all chemistry and attraction to you, because who could love someone who doesn't have self respect? A self respecting person will not tolerate being treated with disrespect, nor would they allow their significant other to insult them without response because they fear to lose them.

 

I love my girlfriend. She's great. I've known a lot of women in my time and none have matched her. I bet we have a little battle around 2-4 times a week. If she started doing things that totally disrespected me, I would call her out on it without pause. I won't tolerate being wronged. If she wrongs me and I stand up for myself and she leaves, then she's gone. Tough. I'm not talking about being uncompromising, or saying that "it's my way or the highway", but I'm talking about not being a doormat. If your girl wrongs you so many times and you keep standing up for yourself, and she LEAVES, then she really wasn't worth it anyway. Good riddance. You should respect yourself enough to know that you don't deserve to settle for anyone if they cannot respect you.

 

How many times in your young lives have you already heard guys cry after being dumped or cheated on, and saying things like, "I don't understand, I gave her everything she wanted!"? He probably did. Which is also probably the reason this happened. he probably tried his hardest to please her without regards to his own needs, wants, and self respect, and in return she lost respect for him. Once that respect was gone, the chemistry was lost as well. Without respect or chemistry, she is going to stray, and eventually leave.

 

To sum it all up in as little as possible, the KEY TO ALL RELATIONSHIPS IS: SELF RESPECT.

 

It's not just about how you treat HER, it's about how you allow YOURSELF to be treated.

[BellaDonna]

I agree with some of what you said.

 

I once gave a poster similar advice: link removed

 

Though I think I used the word "sponge" instead of "tampon". lol

 

Honestly, your post made me laugh. The way you worded things was quite funny. Though it might come accross a bit harsh to some.

 

 

BellaDonna

[Dating Coach]

I agree with some of what you said.

 

I once gave a poster similar advice: link removed

 

Though I think I used the word "sponge" instead of "tampon". lol

 

Honestly, your post made me laugh. The way you worded things was quite funny. Though it might come accross a bit harsh to some.

 

 

BellaDonna

 

What did you disagree with? I want to know because, 1-I want to hear other points, and 2-because I want to make sure you aren't misinterpreting my point, which happens a lot on the internet. Typing is a hard way to convey your meaning.

[BellaDonna]

Well I agreed with your overall points- but not with the way you worded them (however the way you worded them was humorous at the same time)

 

You sit there and listen to this girls problems, you listen to her complain about her "jerk" boyfriend and you give her the attention she wants, but in the end you get jack while she goes home and rides the "jerks" schlong and not yours.

 

And all that stuff about "growing a sac".....this has nothing to do with testicles or manliness, but rather human self-esteem. You take away from your points by using stereotypically macho language, etc. There's also an overall tone of sex to the whole thing with all the talk about male anatomy and riding things. I think that's why others have interperted this as advice about "getting laid".

 

 

BellaDonna

[Dating Coach]

Well I agreed with your overall points- but not with the way you worded them (however the way you worded them was humorous at the same time)

 

And all that stuff about "growing a sac".....this has nothing to do with testicles or manliness, but rather human self-esteem. You take away from your points by using stereotypically macho language, etc. There's also an overall tone of sex to the whole thing with all the talk about male anatomy and riding things. I think that's why others have interperted this as advice about "getting laid".

 

 

BellaDonna

 

That may be, but I made it clear before hand that it was worded in a way that was meant to shock. It's meant to generate conversation and get guys to think. I can probably correct some of it because I did write that about 2 years ago. I was just too lazy last night to do much other than cut and paste. hahaha!

 

I understand that it has a macho theme, but that also is part of the problem with a lot of these guys is that they lack that macho self respect. I'm not saying they need to be cavemen, "Me hungry, me take food, me take women" but they need to get off their whiney butts and start taking their dreams rather than sitting there trying to sleaze their way in quietly. Women respect confidence.

[thatonegirl]

I havent read every single post but I scanned over a few. One person made a comment about nice guys being more sincere, listening to a girls problems and what not. Whats so sincere about befriending someone only to try to date them? If they were truly sincere they'd come out and be honest about their true intentions.

[Dating Coach]

I havent read every single post but I scanned over a few. One person made a comment about nice guys being more sincere, listening to a girls problems and what not. Whats so sincere about befriending someone only to try to date them? If they were truly sincere they'd come out and be honest about their true intentions.

 

That sincere crud is BS. For one, you are right. If you start hanging out with someone that you may be atttracted to, that isn't insincere, that's fear. Plus, how do you know how sincere a guy is who has the balls to ask a girl out shortly after meeting her? That's how I met my current girlfriend and I was very sincere. That kind of talk just sounds like excuses for their actions.

[GettingOverIt]

"That sincere crud is BS. For one, you are right. If you start hanging out with someone that you may be atttracted to, that isn't insincere, that's fear." (Sorry, the 'quote' function wouldnt work corrctly...)

 

I disagree on this point. And, while I appreciate your 'experience,' you are supposedly but 25 years old... You have a long way to go....

 

Now, as for my disagreement... Fear is not the only motivator as to why you would hang out with someone that you (as YOU put it) "MAY" be attracted to... If I *may* be attracted, then I also *MAY NOT* be attracted... By hanging out and getting to know someone, you get a better feel for who that person is or is not.... You may decide you don't want to date that person, but you do like them as a friend... I also believe that it is very insincere if the ONLY reason you are hanging with someone is because you 'might' ask them out.... That is the wrong motivation, in my opinion. You hang out with someone because you want to get to know them, if that develops into something else, then there ya go, but hanging out as a means to 'get with' someone - yeah, that is insincere... It's all about motives.....

[Dating Coach]

I guess what I should have said is that if a guy becomes close to a girl under the pretense of being just friends, but wants to ask her out, only he doesn't, then that is because of fear. Bad wording on my part.

[melrich]

You mainly want opinions on this? I won't give you an opinion on your theories as generally broad theories don't inspire me (and I don't mean just yours I mean all of them and that is just me. I know they work for others).

 

But maybe some feedback on why you are getting frustrated with the responses,

 

You take away from your points by using stereotypically macho language, etc

 

I agree with this. Your verbal style has the potential to alienate too meny people that you want to hear your message.

 

I want to know because, 1-I want to hear other points, and 2-because I want to make sure you aren't misinterpreting my point, which happens a lot on the internet.

 

This is a good sentiment but the fact is your actions don't match it. You tend to jump down the throat of everyone that posts something that disagrees or contradicts what you have said eg

That sincere crud is BS.

 

Finally your tone is very patronising,

 

 

 

I usually post on boards where people are primarily between the ages of 21-35. On those boards I've received less misinterpretations and naiveness in a week than I have here in a couple hours. I think it has to do with lack of experience from people who are 15-19 years old.

 

 

That may be the way you feel but it is stupid to just tell all your readers that that they are probably just too young to understand what you are saying. There are smarter ways to get the message accross.

 

If you are truly trying to get your message accross and get honest feed back about its validity then the reader has to be able feel an association with you. Has to feel some level of warmth with you.

[Miss M]

Melrich, I totally agree. And thanks for stating it so well.