Was I the problem or was it her and her kids?

[boiler55126]

My girlfriend left me 3 weeks ago. 3rd time she's left me in a 2 and a half year relationship. She lived in my house and her kids were there 2 weekends a month and every Wednesday. She doesn't have custody of her kids, just visitation rights. She was married for 14 years and divorced her husband and left her kids. She had to fight it in court just to have them as much as she does. She comes from a very dysfunctional family and I come from a very stable family. I've never been married and have no kids. Her kids are 11 and 14, both girls. In my eyes they're not very well behaved. My girlfriend only paid me any rent this last time she moved back in. In the 2 and a half years I've known her she has moved 8 times. The times she left me she moved a few times in between breaks in our relationship. Well seems that everytime she has left me it was over her kids, especially this last time. She said it just isn't going to work and that I don't understand kids.

 

I'll explain here what the problems were I had with her kids. They wouldn't pick up after themselves. They would shove empty pop cans, dinner plates, cereal bowls etc. under their beds. My ex would pick up after them and never tell them to. They didn't know how to do much of anything. I would tell them something like "could you two pick up your room" and they would look at me like they didn't know what I was talking about. They didn't know how to do laundry. They didn't know how to fold their own laundry and put it in the dresser or hang it on hangers and put it in the closet. I couldn't figure out why we were doing their laundry twice over the course of a weekend when they were at my house. I looked into it and found out that they would try on clothes and 2 minutes later they would decide they didn't want to wear it so instead of putting it back on a hanger or in a drawer they would throw it in the dirty clothes basket, or usually on the floor. They had a garbage can in their room but pretty much threw everything on the floor. They were slamming the front door of the house so hard that it has cracked the sheetrock above the door. I told them not to do that at least a dozen times and it didn't matter, and that goes for everything that I asked them to either do or not to do. All they ever wanted to do is watch TV. The 14 year old would get up at about 8, watch cartoons til noon, then play on the computer til about 3, then maybe make lunch and not pick up the kitchen after the mess she made, then maybe take a shower, and then lock herself in her room and watch TV the rest of the evening. I kept telling here to go outside and do something. She would say she didn't have any friends. I told her she didn't have any friends because nobody knew she existed, since she would sit on her butt all day and hardly ever go outside.

 

The whole time my ex would never discipline them. She wouldn't teach them anything, she would do everything for them, no responsibility. I'm not so sure the 11 year old even knew how to tie her own shoes. They live primarily with their dad and he doesn't spend any time with them. His wife tries to discipline them but they don't seem to listen to her either. So they come to my house and I'm expected to be a father figure to them, yet they won't listen to a thing I said. If my girlfriend told them something they would listen to her but she never backed me up on anything when I would scold them for something. She would get mad at me instead. She would agree with me about their problems but when it came to me trying to correct them she wouldn't back me up, instead she would defend her kids.

 

Well she left me for the 3rd time about 3 weeks ago and this appears to be the last time. I yelled at the 14 year old about sitting on her lazy butt watching TV all the time and she started crying and wanted to go back to her dads instead of being with her mom at my house for the weekend. Seemed like a good acting job on her part to get her moms attention. She always semmed to do the "feel sorry for me" routine to get her way with her mom, both of them pretty much did. My girlfriend got all upset and thus left me saying that I'm too hard on her kids and that when I say something to them I don't stop and that I keep drilling them. I said I have to because telling them 1 or 2 times doesn't work, it's more like about 12 times, and most of the time that isn't enough. She said that's just how kids are and you have to tell them over and over. I said if you have to tell them over and over and they don't listen then why even tell them at all. There just seemed to be no level of respect, even though they were living in my house. I tried to enforce the rules but I felt like I had to tip toe around my girlfriend because she would get mad. She was never willing to compromise on things and wanted to do it all her way. I think she feels bad about leaving her kids and she's trying to make amends now and felt that making her kids responsible was making her kids unhappy and seen that's where I was going with it, and I believe her kids are both about 4 years behind in their behavior and mentality.

 

So here are my questions:

 

I do love my ex-girlfriend an awful lot. We got along pretty well and I don't understand why she completely ended our relationship. Our arguments were 95% of the time about her kids. I felt we could have continued it but just not living together. Is that wrong? Or was it really best to end it all? I really miss her a lot, not so much her kids, if we're never going to get back together, what's the best way to get over it or could we be good friends? Is it a good idea or a bad idea?

We're trying to be friends, we have talked several times and met up a few times and seem to get along better with each time we talk. So if she wants to be friends is that her way of saying she isn't ready for a commited family type relationship but she doesn't want to put me out of her life and possibly continue our relationship after a break but just needs her space? Do I just not understand kids? Was I caught in the middle of a divorced family where the parents are trying to out-do each other to make the kids the happiest? Was I wrong to try to discipline her kids and teach them responsibility? Should of I just stayed out of it and let her raise her kids the way she wanted to?

[punchy504]

I think there is a lot of blame to go around in your scenario- the least of which falls on you- dad should be spending better quality time with his kids, mom should as well, both of them should not let the girls play these games that teens play, the teens are playing their games, mom should have supported your position in the household- it's just a mess. I don't know what to tell you, but I feel for you man. I wouldn't restart anything until mom agrees and follows through with demanding those girls start treating her and all other adults with some respect.

[guapa]

well, i think that there can be no long term possibility of a relationship if you can't agree on how to raise the kids.

 

it definitely doesn't sound like she is very responsible though.

[shes2smart]

Do I just not understand kids?

 

On the contrary, I'd say you have a better understanding of what it takes to be a PARENT than your gf or the kids' bio father.

 

Was I wrong to try to discipline her kids and teach them responsibility? Should of I just stayed out of it and let her raise her kids the way she wanted to?

 

Technically, it's not your place to discipline her kids, however, no one else seems to be. Far as I can tell from your post, your intentions were good -- you're right in thinking they need to learn to clean up after themselves, do laundry, etc. Those are skills they're going to need to live a decent life.

 

The way she's going about raising them she's going to end up with a couple of spoiled, bratty, undisciplined heathens who will be posting here in ten years time wondering why their lives are completely out of control. Both she and the bio dad are lacking in parenting skills. I'm guessing they didn't put much thought into what it means to be a parent before she got pregnant.

 

The real losers in this situation are those 2 girls. It's unfortunate, and I get the sense from your post that your intentions were to HELP them. Unfortuantely, they've got a couple of parents who have a lot of growing up to do themselves.

 

Unless you like living on the rollercoaster with all the drama, you might want to consider just walking away from the whole situation. I don't know if you want to drag child services (or similar child welfare agency) into it...or if they'd even get involved. I suppose that's an option, too. For the most part, courts rarely award custody to dads....in the few cases I have first hand knowledge of where the dad got custody, the mom's life was a real train wreck. Don't know enough about your situation to say it's the same, but on the surface it kinda sounds like it.

[Mr Meh]

First off, being a step parent can be one of the most difficult and thankless jobs on earth (and of course very rewarding too). Especially when the other parent is involved, which in 99% of cases leads to disruptions in routine and different rules in each household.

My step-daughter was a fairly rude and spoiled child when I first met her, and I didn't even really like her that much. I met her mom fairly soon after she separated from the child's father and so stepped into a place where I was regarded as an outsider and a threat; I was competing for her Mom's attention (in her mind) and I also think she thought that to like me would be to betray her Dad. I have fairly rigid opinions when it comes to respecting parental authority. manners and being spoiled, so this was a real issue for me. Her mom would always side with her when I tried to 'discipline' and in addition the father still exerted influence on both of them, so my role as the Man of the House (we weren't living together just saw each other every single night) was not being respected. This was largely my issue and over the years for various reasons I have lost a lot of the male entitlement expectations I once held. To add to the problem I have a daughter of the same age who came over there with me when she was visiting me, and since my gf's kid could pretty much do whatever she wanted it was 'only fair' that my daughter have the same rights. So I really lost control of my own daughter (who is a more well mannered child because her mom is fairly strict with the parental respect etc too) too, because it is pretty much impossible to impose rules on one kid and not the other in the same house, regardless of how one parent thinks. So I basically was stuck with arguing all the time over how hard I was on the kid(s) or letting things slide, even with my own daughter. To finish this part off, we did move in together and most of these problems went away once I relaxed my standards a bit and they respected mine a bit. Took time and understanding but eventually a balance was set. We're in the middle of a divorce now, lol, but that is unrelated to children issues.

In your case I see a lot of potential for grief:

No discipline or rules (or attention) at their primary household. No discipline or rules when they visit Mom, except from some whip cracking psycho their mom is dating (sorry, but kids naturally hate discipline and both of these kids are close to an age that they would be lazy and defiant even if you were their natural father). This lack of 'real' parental control definitely leaves you at a disadvantage.

I could go on for a long time but I think you do have a good grasp of the situation. I do think that guilt in a big way probably motivates their Mom to be too nice, and there is often a sort of competition between dicorced parents to be the 'cool' and fun one, which often leaves discipline behind.

Some things I would suggest are:

Make sure that your (too rigid?) opinions on parenting are not over-shadowing her (too lenient?) ones. Remember that you are indirectly insulting\doubting her ability as a parent when you act as one; something she is probably already extremely hard on herself about- having lost custody of them. Having no prior experience with having kids yourself leaves you acting on your own theories rather than experience and believe me the reality is always different than the "rules" with kids.

Make sure you are not too aggressively doing the "my house! my rules!" routine, since it seems they are living in your house and while perfectly within your rights to expect certain things, not necessarily entitled to them.

I realize that I am making this all sound like you are at fault and you need to give in, but I don't mean it that way. Certainly, as a parental figure (by default maybe) you should have a say in certain things, and your gf should respect that to a great degree as should her kids, but all the things I mentioned are working against you. It seems that you guys love each other and without the kids in the picture, things are good. It's not the kids' fault though; they are acting the way they have been taught, and may not know any better despite your attempts to correct them (or in spite of).

Where you see lazy, rude children and a too-soft mom they see may see a chest pounding alpha male guarding his territory...Again I'm not saying you are a bad person etc (and I'm certainly taking the liberty of using my own life as a comparison) but this may really be an elaborate mis-understanding in which ALL parties have to give and take a bit to come to a compromise that works.

It is very difficult sometimes to love another's children and having a resentfuil relationship with them will not be happy for anyone.

 

THE END

[RandomAdvisor]

I agree with shes2smart. Your intentions were good and you seem to have the makings of a much better PARENT than your ex did. To me she comes accross as one of those parents who wants to be a "cool mom", and make friendship with her kids a higher priority than parenting them. These kids are going to grow up being spoiled little brats with no sense of personal responsibility. I feel sorry for them.

 

I'm only 23 years old, and I'm not a parent, but I know being a parent can be difficult. That being said, I think your ex is a ****ing idiot.

 

It seems like common sense to me. Why would you pick everything up after your kids when they're old enough to be doing it themselves? And then she gets angry at you for trying to do the right thing? In answer to the title question of your post - it's not your fault. It's not even the kids fault. It's her fault. Her and her ex husband. The kids didn't get like this over night. I'm betting her and her husband did a terrible job of parenting them from the start.

 

I don't know if involving child services is even a possibility here. There's no abuse going on. It's not neglect either, because she is taking her time to clean up after the kids. It's just terrible parenting, and unfortunately there is no law against it. Some (ok many) people just aren't cut out to be parents. Your ex is pointing the finger at you for being such a person, but it's really her.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in being friends with this woman either. I'd go to strict NC if I were you. Until her children are taking care of themselves (probably their mid 30's the way she is raising them), your relationship with her is always going to be complicated by them. Since she's choosing bad parenting over you consistently, it's not going to work out. You say you think this breakup is the last one, but I'm not so sure. Living with you must have been very convenient for her. She didn't even pay rent half the time. Can she get that kind of a sweetheart deal elsewhere?

 

My advice is to go to NC. There are plenty of other people you can be friends with, and plenty of other women you can date as well. Some of them have kids too, but I'm hoping most of those are better mothers than your ex is.

[Falucchi]

Our arguments were 95% of the time about her kids pretty much sums up why the relationship ended, don't you think?

 

Aside from that, from what you wrote in your post, this woman could or should never have been considered a "healthy, stable, realtionship-quality" woman:

She left and came back to you twice before

She doesn't have custody of her kids

She divorced her husband and left her kids

She comes from a very dysfunctional family

She has moved 8 times in 2.5 years

She would never discipline them (her kids)

She wouldn't teach them anything (her kids)

She never backed you up on anything and-

She would get mad at you instead

She was never willing to compromise

She isn't ready for a commited family type relationship

She just needs her space

 

So.... given the facts as you presented them here, what is it about this woman that would make you think that you can "save" her or try to carry on with some sort of "relationship" with her? Am I the only one who sees a bigger issue here?

 

I'm not too concerned about her kids at the moment; I'm wondering why you put yourself in this situation, and why you might hope to keep this woman in your life? She's got a pretty solid track record of being a flake--

what is it that you expect or want from her?

[heloladies21]

Hmm...I think this situation is best left alone. Your ex can't provide you with what you want. You're looking for somebody else, so go out and find her.

[ratherbesailing]

Boiler -

 

I'd run, but if you can't get yourself to do that (love's a funny thing), I think you and your girlfriend should see a counselor that specializes in parenting issues. I also think you should negotiate a written list of house rules with your girlfriend that she agrees to back you up on and both of you should sign the list. Agree on what the punishments will be if the rules are broken. Pin them right on the fridge. Enforce the rules but still treat the kids with respect. No "get your fat *CENSORED* *CENSORED* *CENSORED* of the couch and pick that up." Just, "you know the rules mom and I set so please get up from the couch and pick that up or no TV for the next two days."

 

Parenting issues are difficult to see eye to eye on, especially when you haven't raised them together from day one. My girlfriend's hair stands on end when I cross over on her turf and even comment on what she should do with her kids on certain issues and I hate to admit it but I feel defensive when she comments to me about what I should be doing with my kids. It is just threatening and brings up guilty feelings about my parenting skills. Our kids are all over 18 and this is still an issue.

 

My wife left but we ended up sharing custody and I have to say that it is really hard to keep strict discipline under those circumstances. You are so excited to see them when they arrive and a few days later you are dreading them leaving and it is just plain hard to be strict with the short time they are there especially when you know that at their other parent's home they don't have such rules. I fall in the trap to, but it is so common for divorced parents to want to be friends with their kids, rather than acting like traditional parents. Just realize what she is going through so that when you try to correct the situation, you have a better idea where her head is at.