How Can I subtly get the husband to find out?

[Hope75]

can i trust her? i wouldnt be waiting if i couldnt, and i'm far far too sharp to be taken for a ride.....she just could not do it.

 

I think you are so blinded by your feelings for her right now that you can't see that you are being taken for a ride right now. You are way too close to the situation to be able to see clearly how much you are being taken advantage of.

 

so i will wait till september, i will force as much as i can before then, ultimately get him to know for sure so his decision is easy for him...not that it isnt anyway...

 

This is really sad. Don't you think it would be smarter and healthier for you to drop this married criminal and consider pursuing someone who is actually available for a relationship?

 

She can't possibly have a healthy normal relationship with you and give you what you need and deserve.

 

Have you considered the fact that he may not leave her when he finds out? Then what? Since she won't leave him. Their crimes may hold them together forever. Where does that leave you?

[stressed1]

Hi,

 

I accept the last points and i have an update on my story, which as most of you seem interested in, I will give you the details......I ahve been doing some background info wk on the situation, to see what fitted, if she was indeed telling the truth etc etc....so for part 1 of my investigations, i sent 2 friends into the restaurant to see what was what......knowing full well she was away taking money home to her native country...so the results.

 

Ok, so my friends went in, had a meal, saw husband and friend in bar. they were talking about the time this week that they went clubbing, and got involved in some fights etc..drinking as well.....all stuff she told me he had changed......the friend of husband was incredibly scary, and my friend is a big guy. husband was sort of street guy who could not be fooled easily.....so he must know what was going on. he also insisted on them paying cash, as he asked twice, so either taking money for himself while she is away or under orders from her to do this. still v dodgy.

 

the husband (and this is most important comment that i heard), when asked by one of the guests where wife was, he replied "she is in the best country in the world, "X", or might as well be australia". now, i have asked many people what they thought of that, and the big consensus is that he was very glad she was away.....that was the feeling my friend got when he said it.....and what everyone has said when i have asked them. now this country is eastern european and in now way remotely close to the best country in the world... comMENTS PLEASE!

 

so husband, in summary, hasnt changed, is prob dodgier than i thought, and glad she is away. so the sham marriage continues.....people have said to me "but u know their marriage is a joke" yes i did, but confirmation is important and always good....

 

part 2 of my investigations in my next post.

[stressed1]

so....part 2.

 

I was thinking that in all honesty for this situation to fall apart, not that it wont eventually anyway, i need to push some info around....so i have contacted all my friends in the area to see if they know of anything....to do with business side of things...and met a family of old friends last night that knew the partner very very well (both parents and 4 children). so, they explained that the partner, who as u know is being conned out of lots of money, is the trusting, nice sort (more fool him). I told the parents some things and hints that he should be making more money....that might get back, might not. the mother also said dont say a word to the children, as it will def get back.

 

so, i have a choice......i have the perfect channel in which to feed things back, its just a case of when, and if. it will def have the desired effect, but i just need to do it. before, apart from sending anonymous letter, i have had no channel, but now i have. and it will be easy. only concern is that do i trust me friends to do it?

 

having listened to what the previous post said, yes there is the slim poss he might not leave after finding out, but i dont think that this is the case, as the crime, the fraud, the affairs are all bound up together. what is incredibly strong will become i think incredibly weak, for the same reasons.

 

and yes i could wait until sept/oct. but i want to be sure.....

 

and yes as always i know exactly what i want and am fully prepared for the circumstances. knowing what i said in the previous post, that the friend of husband and he himself are the incredibly rough and nasty sort, then yes the possiblity of an attack on me is quite likely.

 

i am prepared for this, it goes with the terrotory.

[michelemybell]

Stressed, you seem to be ignoring the good advice of the other posters and just doing what you want. I dont think one person here thinks this situation is a good idea, but you dont seem to be listening AT ALL.

I'm wondering what kind of life you have outside of this relationship? It seems the drama of the relationship, which appears to be consuming a lot of your time and thoughts, gets you excited. Oh well, it's your wasted life. How sad!

[Mun]

I just have one question at this point.

 

Do you make enough money? When you become her man she is going to need some of it to send back to her country. If she no longer has husband's then it's your pockets she will be dipping her fingers in.

[avman]

The fact that you are resorting to cloak and dagger tactics shows me that you are in an extremely unhealthy state over this. Re-read the advice of the other posters and get yourself out of this situation.

 

This is guaranteed to turn out badly for everyone involved including you.

[Hope75]

I agree with the other posters....still.

 

The more I read about this the sicker and more twisted it gets, and the way I see it, is you are the only one here with a choice to walk away from this mess, so why aren't you?

 

Don't say because you love her so much, This is absolutely ridiculous. She cannot possibly know how to love, she is in a twisted marriage, stealing and embezzling money, and you are allowing yourself to be taken along for a ride, and now you are having friends spy on her husband and you are willing to get assaulted for this? You can still love someone and realize that it is totally unhealthy for you to try and hold together a shred of a dishonest relationship and walk away and learn to accept that is isn't worth it and never will be.

 

What exactly has she shown you that makes you think this is worth it all?

 

Let's see:

 

Regardless of the situation, cheating is wrong, and she is cheating, She married him, not you, for whatever reason and she will not leave him. She is either unwilling or unable to leave for criminal reasons, either way she is not worth it and a terrible choice.

 

She is a thief, and no matter how much of this you wish to put on her husband, she is aware of it, has not reported it, and is actually helping him carry out his crimes. That makes her as guilty as he is in any law book, why not yours?

 

You are all wrapped up thinking she is a victim in all of this, but the fact is, she chose to marry him, she chose to help him steal and cover for him, and she will not leave him for you. She is just as much a dishonest criminal as he is. She is just as responsible.

 

Now it's your turn to make a choice. Don't continue to be a fool. Leave this mess before you get yourself killed.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Leave this mess before you get yourself killed.

 

After reading Stressed1's updates the exact same thing popped in my mind. Have you even considered that you're putting your life at risk over someone who can't or won't leave her husband for you? If it's a can't because of the fraud thing, then it's a very good possiblity that if the husband finds out his wife is seeing someone on the side, who is spying on him, you'll be VERY lucky if all you get is the tar beaten out of you. After all, you'd be surprised at what people will do to avoid jail time. It doesn't matter that you don't intend to turn him in. Just knowing what you know now already puts you at risk. What do you think he'll think? I imagine it will be something like this. "This guy is seeing my wife and wants me out of the picture, he probably knows about my crimes since he knew how to filter the information to me so he was obviously snooping around, not to mention my wife probably told him. How is he going to get me out of the picture? Probably turn me in. Well, we can't have that, can we?"

 

If she chooses not to leave him for you, then honestly, is she really worth your time and effort. You can't make someone love you after all, that has to be their choice.

 

I think this whole situation is very unhealthy and dangerous. This isn't the movies, sometimes the good guy doesn't win. Regardless, you're trying to make her choice for her. That's not love, that's obsession. Love is being able to let the other person make their own choice. You aren't doing that. Just my $0.02.

[Hope75]

 That's not love, that's obsession. Love is being able to let the other person make their own choice. You aren't doing that

 

Well said, Lonely.

[stressed1]

Ok,

 

Once again thanks for your posts, and I will address the points below……I would say, in all honesty, that you agree with the consensus of my friends (in fact I don't actually think anyone has told me different!). You and my friends agree on these points: that the marriage is a disgrace, complete joke and is definitely, in my 12 years of being a trainee counsellor, the worst I have ever known…..secondly, you and my friends all agree about her, namely that she isn't worth it. I listen to all views (prob too many but still).

 

As for me and her, and the marriage, I will comment on this once again. Of course I love her and am her best friend, which is precisely why I want her out of this situation. If it means me telling husband, intentionally splitting them up, giving him the true information about me and her, I will do it. If I get beaten up, if I even get killed, then so be it, a price I am very willing to pay. Yes, it is an unhealthy situation for all of us, the better solution for all, if everyone was fully informed, would be for them to split. Effectively, by their actions, they are both signalling this anyway…..I am not the sort of person to walk away from any situation if I feel it is worth it and a just cause. I can see her better side, as well as the harsh criminal side. And no, this isn't some inner city reclamation project before u all ask…

 

So, that is what I want and I know what I am going to do. As for me, do I earn enough money, is she going to be content with my income, is she going to able to steal off me etc etc? well I earn anything from $4000-$15000 dollars a month (I am English as u know), the variability comes from me being a trader (mainly ccy). So can she steal off me? As in send money home? The only way she could do this is by accessing any joint accounts etc. thereforeeee I would have to permission her. If I did so, I would be ok with it. She cant intentionally secretly steal anything off of me, it would have to be through my action, ie opening a joint account.

 

As for the does she love me, am I doing the right thing, would the husband kill me etc etc. I guess its v hard for all of u as u don't know her and the facts as told would lead to all of u recommending the same thing, I would be the same. The bottom line here is look at their actions, more importantly hers, and look at the consequences. Also throw in fact she is eastern European (ex communist country) and u get a very twisted situation. But the actions demonstrate, loud and clear that they both want out and are being held together by fear, betrayal, jail and few other things. Everything but love.

 

Now, yes I agree, this could go on forever, it really could. Reasons it wont, in my view, are below:

 

1. restaurant is falling down badly, less money or no money. So source has been stopped or is stopping

2. bankruptcy ends oct, already been through that

3. anyone of tax, vat or partner getting more info, from me or naturally, only matter of time….clock is ticking…….

4. only matter of time before he cheats again or finds out about our relationship or even announces to her that he knows anyway…..

 

all these things combined point to a very precarious, delicate and highly combustible situation that has VERY limited shelf life.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

I'll ask this. Does she know what you're planning on doing and if so does she approve? I only ask because if she doesn't know or approve then you are effectively trying to control her life. And it is her life, not yours. How she chooses to live it is not your business. I do understand what you're trying to do. You see someone you care about in a bad situation and you're trying to help.

 

The only problem with that is if she doesn't want that help then you aren't doing her any favors. Being in a bad marriage is a choice, it's not forced on someone, dispite all the crimes and problems she has. She has the choice to walk away and make her life better, if she doesn't choose to then what right do you have to make that choice for her? You can't live someone's life for them and you can't fix other people's problems. That up them, no one else.

 

I hate to say it, but you seem more obsessed with this woman than anything. If you truly cared for her, you'd be there for her, encourage her to leave her husband for you, etc. If she CHOOSES not to, then that's that. By making her choice for her, you're attempting to control her life. I know I could never care for someone who would attempt to do that with me.

 

But you'll do what you want to do, despite the advice of us and your friends. Just like her, you have a choice to stop this self destructive behavoir. I hope that you realize that before it's too late. Please reconsider.

[stressed1]

Hi Lonelyinasmalltown,

 

I guess and hope you have never been in this situation which is the most frustrating thing in the whole world. I think its very very wonderful how most of the people posting on this board seem to think that anything she does is fine, I have no options and no choices. Like she can play with her marriage, come and go, and all the time I can do absolutely nothing?

 

She cannot have the slightest bit of complaint if I do what I want to do, can she?

 

Or is anyone here going to now say oh no, she would have just complaint etc…

 

To state again, she invited me into this marriage, and once here I am here to stay.

 

Its not obsession, its very deep love thank you very much, only people that have been in this situation can ever appreciate the agony, frustration and hopelessness of it all.

 

And as for controlling other peoples lives, well generally that only comes out of the transfer of power, which she has done. That's her choice. Yes, I can walk away but def will not, yes she can leavfe everything and be with someone else not even me, but it is not even slightly acceptable to return and stay married.

 

Anybody here that says yes she can clearly does not know the slightest idea or accept the first thing about marriage.

 

And for the self righteous/biblical amongst you, the bible clearly states on many occasions an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

 

There will be ramifications from all of this, that I can guarantee.

[Mun]

I've been married and I don't understand what you are saying about marriage in your last post. I'm sorry, I don't know if I misunderstood, or you didn't explain yourself too well.

 

Are you saying she cannot go back to the marriage once she walks away? Is that it?

 

The issue here is that you are wanting to do this for her. To tell the husband so that he will get rid of her. All the while he must know she is stealing, cheating...etc..and he hasn't got rid of her yet. What is this magic thing you will tell him that will get him to leave her? Some new information?

 

I'll tell you my experience with marriage. I was in an abusive, very unhealthy marriage and yet I stayed until I was ready to leave. Nothing anyone could have said or done would have got me out of there until I was ready to get out. Are you sure this lady is ready to get out of there?

 

Also, there are ways to steal that have nothing to do with access to bank accounts. Checks can be intercepted and cashed with forged husbands signature and wife's signature, money given to pay bills can be stashed away or sent off--you won't notice until the bill collectors come a knocking about those overdue accounts--I know someone who lost their house this way. Spouse can lie about having debts somewhere that need to be paid off.

Or the one my ex husband used on me : he would buy something pricey that he really needed or wanted and then return it a few days later and get a refund. Then used that for "fun money" Meanwhile there was a budget to adjust because of the expensive "auto repairs." I'm not stupid and it took me awhile to figure this one out.

 

I hope you can trust her as well as love her.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

I guess and hope you have never been in this situation which is the most frustrating thing in the whole world. I think its very very wonderful how most of the people posting on this board seem to think that anything she does is fine, I have no options and no choices. Like she can play with her marriage, come and go, and all the time I can do absolutely nothing?

 

You're right, I've never been in a situation like this before and I pray that I never will be. I really hope that you listen to what muneca said though if you won't listen to me, because it sounds like she was in the same spot the wife is in now.

 

I'll tell you my experience with marriage. I was in an abusive, very unhealthy marriage and yet I stayed until I was ready to leave. Nothing anyone could have said or done would have got me out of there until I was ready to get out. Are you sure this lady is ready to get out of there?

 

My whole point is this. Was she wrong to bring you into the marriage. I don't know, don't know the woman, but since she was married and got involved with another man, I would have to say yes. Are you in the wrong trying to split up her marriage because you want her all to yourself? Well, I can understand that you care for her, but if she's not willing to leave herself, then what you're planning to do is manipulation. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe that a problem between a husband and wife needs to be sorted out by themselves (with counsiling if needed). Not to have a 3rd party come in to force their will on the couple. Face it, if you try to split them up, that is exactly what you'll be doing.

 

I can't tell you what to do, no one can. You seem intent on your course and aren't open to any other suggestions. I hope you realize a few things though.

 

1. Any person who will cheat on there signifacant other is very likely to do it again. (this board is filled with stories like that)

2. What you're doing is dangerous, but you already know that.

 

I don't know what else to say.

[Hope75]

guess and hope you have never been in this situation which is the most frustrating thing in the whole world. I think its very very wonderful how most of the people posting on this board seem to think that anything she does is fine, I have no options and no choices. Like she can play with her marriage, come and go, and all the time I can do absolutely nothing?

 

 

Of course not. You have a very smart option and that is to walk away from her. You are in complete control and have every right in the world to walk away. It is beyond me why you won't.

 

I have to agree with lonely that is sounds more like an obsession than love, since love is allowing the other person room to grow and make their own decisions, not to try and control them by forcing the marriage apart. The marriage is still together because she chooses to stay, as does he.

 

What is it you think you are going to be able to come up with that will make him leave her? As Muneca said, he is aware of her not so savory qualites and they are till together.

 

Doesn't it bother you to be standing on the outside of their marraige, looking in and trying to break the glass?

 

Yes, you were invited into her life by her, but not into the marriage, which belongs to both of them. And in this situation, even the most welcome guest knows when it is time to leave.

[DN]

There are two people involved in a marriage - it takes two to invite someone else in.

[stressed1]

Hi All,

 

Thanks once again for your good posts. The bit I have taken most interest in, mainly because it represents her attitude and the possible mind set she may have, ragards it being her decision.

 

My big big failing is the fact that I am interfering with pushing it on her that he is bad, he is cheating etc. All of which we all know, including her. I also know that this is completely the wrong approach, and the vast majority of case studies i have read say just that. The facts are that me pushing for this, saying on many many times what he has done and is doing, is just going to have the opposite effect. I know that but play it extremely badly.

 

This is partly understandable, as I have been brought up on a long diet of her moaning and telling me just how bad he is.

 

But its something i have to to stop, not because its wrong, because lets face it facts are facts, but because its not having the desired effects, and takes me further from my goal.

 

I can give you the sort of example i mean, and maybe people here with similar abusive experiences can comment. when husband was out drinking and fighting last week, when she was away, she knew he had been out, and i told her that i knew the details. now, on response to this, she says she likes it, and would like to go out and do the same.now, this is not her at all, but my point is that she is just pushing it back in my face and arguing for the sake of it. pretty clear and obvious. she also stated that he can touch any girl he wants on the a** and breast, thats fine. now, no normal woman would ever say and do these things, or accept these things, these comments are purely a reaction to me pushing. and obviously she is hurt by the fighting,drinking and playing around.....or have i got this wrong? comments please......

 

so yes i can see all the mistakes i am making, but its very hard to sit back and do little.

 

i also agree with the other post, that 2 people brought me into this marriage. i will also clarify, that my comment was that she can go back and do something else with anybody, this is her choice, but she cant, in my opinion, drift back into the marriage. the road to turning back has long long gone on this one....

 

comments please....

[Mun]

I'ts a big, huge mistake to want to rescue her. She needs to get herself out of this situation- if she wants to.

 

Her crying to you about how awful he is, yet being hurt and jealous about his behavior is not unusual. Nobody really knows what is going on inside a marriage but the 2 people in it. No matter what she says--look at her actions. I hope she does love you as you say, and is not just using you to feed her bruised ego.

[stressed1]

....and

 

in response to telling him, would it make a difference etc etc? does he already know? well pretty much everyone tells me that yes he MUST already know, but my confidence on this is not as high as otgher peoples. this gives me my dilemma. some of my friends have said that it would be easier if they were in love, but as it appears they not because of the constant cheating, it is entirely possible that they dont care. this would be a real problem to me...but i do think he knows, i just dont know why he hasnt reacted, unless of course my september/october bankruptcy theory is going to prove correct.

 

this represents a real dillemma, to i find out things, push it (no!), sit back, or what.....makes it all very very hard for me....but realistically, and being honest, i can def see this all coming out, one way or another, be it from me, someone else, him, her or whatever.......but i think chances ofn this situation staying silent and calm are almost 0.

 

anyone else have thoughts?

[Mun]

You don't trust her enough that she will get herself out of this do you?

 

Why can't you trust your love and that she will do what her heart is telling her.. without any intervention from you?

 

I guess you've already said this: you don't think they will break up unless you say something. What if they still don't? What will you do then?

[stressed1]

Its not that i dont trust her or think that this isnt what she wants,

 

but we are dealing with an abusive case, and from the stories and case studies i have listened to suggest that while it usually does happen, the people on the inside take ages and ages to realise these things, but more than enough has come from her to suggest that yes hse does want out. but doing it is another thing......

 

as my dad says, u cant make good decisions in a bad situation.....

 

i accept ur point that trying to recue her is a bad idea, doesnt work on the psychology level. do u have any experiences of this?

[Mun]

Well, I would think that by you stepping in and doing for her the things she needs to do for herself you are enabling her to be a victim ( if you can call her that) all her life. She needs to get the strength and courage on her own to get out of this. Also, you are forcing things to happen when she isn't ready for it. It could blow up in your face if they stay together anyway and that would be heartbreaking for you.

 

I just think you need to step back and let her do this on her own. If she loves you and she does want out.. believe me she will find a way. She found a way to take money without him knowing.. she can find a way to do this too.

 

What are you afraid of?

[Hope75]

I have to agree with Muneca.

 

You have done all that you can possibly do here. She knows how you feel, she knows what you want, and now if she wants the same it is up to her to make that happen. You will not be able to get her out of the marriage no matter how hard you try. It has to be something she does.

 

You are only going to continue to frustrate yourself the harder you try.

 

As Muneca has said, you need to trust that she loves you and will want to be with you enough to leave, and if she doesn't, you are wasting your time anyway.

[stressed1]

Hi,

 

yes i agree the harder i try, the more arguments i get......if some female on this site could explain the dynamics and emotions behind this, pls let me know.

 

today, to show the knee jerk reactions she tries to get, she has made up miscarriage! with husband!

 

she was arguing again about what if i tell him, she says she is stressed, and then she said what if i have had miscarriage like last month. i stop all conversation about threats, and focus on this, as its too important.

 

i ask her outright, have u had one. she replies "i'm not telling you". i woukld have known if she had, as i wk with her.

 

so can someone explain this game? after a reaction from me for sure??

[stressed1]

and further.....

 

when trying to argue the case about her husband today, she argues to the death and says that he can touch and feel any woman he wants, with her permission...

 

then we move onto the partner, and i say ok can u give him his money back? she says she has.....i say oh, really?

 

she says yes, he gets nothing because he doesnt wk hard enough.....even though he owns half of business.

 

how can u deal with someone that deluded? "he doesnt get anything because, in her opinion, he doesnt wk hard enough. thereforeeee its not stealing"

 

is this crazy or what? is this the most deluded person ever?