she lost attraction based on my poor social skills (i think)

[evano]

This was the first third date I’d had in 5 years. We had a ton in common, she answered all my messages immediately, talked about future plans, and made time as a busy single mother for me. 

For the third date, i gave her a few options and she chose to come to my apartment and watch a movie. I need an emotional connection/a lot of trust before sex, so that wasn’t my aim, but I was hoping we might touch or kiss. 

So our conversations were great, but here’s where i have regrets: On the second date, we were discussing scary movies and i was talking about how i thought it was important for children to consume scary movies sometimes. I was sort of playing devils advocate but also knew there was some truth to it. I thought she got a little defensive though, perhaps as a parent. Later, I was trying to say something supportive, but I think she took it as misunderstanding exactly what she was saying, which perhaps I did, and she seemed annoyed. 

Since I am of “anxious/preoccupied” attachment however, and working on it, I try to stay positive when I sense negative moods in the other person. 

On the third date, she seemed distant, even though she’d come all the way over. I tried to get close but couldn’t. I said a few awkward things and made a devil’s advocate blunder once again that got her defensive. I should add that otherwise she was nothing but kind to me and asked me a lot of questions. We were still having a good discussion but then she unceremoniously got up to go like she couldn’t leave fast enough. I asked her if id see her again and she gave a phony smile and nod. Anyhow I had to sort of pry a clear rejection out of her over the text because clear communication works best for me. I guess I don’t know for sure what turned her off, but i liked her, and i can’t help but worry that it’s my bad habit of debating. ps i’m not even trying to be “right” btw, but i’m just stimulated by ideas, and she was an interesting person. still, i feel so stupid because it’s not like these ideas are important to me. i think i was hurt she seemed so annoyed. i also made a no pressure request for honest feedback when she called things off, but she didn’t reply.  ha i posted on reddit but people are a little harsh on there. thank you

[smackie9]

We can't really say what actually went wrong because we weren't there. As for talking about kids in the manner that you did, leave that subject totally out with any parent...very touchy subject for some, not worth the risk. But all in all, it's not a match if you can't be yourself. If she is that sensitive and can't counter your opinion in a honest and positive way, you dodged a bullet. Look at it this way...from what you have said so far she's the one with the problem not you, and that's how you should look at it.

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, evano said:

On the third date, she seemed distant, even though she’d come all the way over. I tried to get close but couldn’t. I said a few awkward things and made a devil’s advocate blunder once again that got her defensive.she unceremoniously got up to go like she couldn’t leave fast enough. I asked her if id see her again and she gave a phony smile and nod.  ha i posted on reddit but people are a little harsh on there. thank you

Sorry this happened. The first two dates seemed to have gone well if she accepted a third. You're right about "playing devil's advocate", which basically means being antagonistic, argumentative, snarky and dismissive, so yes work on that. Don't ask people what went wrong. You know what went wrong. Reddit is a toilet.🚽

[evano]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. The first two dates seemed to have gone well if she accepted a third. You're right about "playing devil's advocate", which basically means being antagonistic, argumentative, snarky and dismissive, so yes work on that. Don't ask people what went wrong. You know what went wrong. Reddit is a toilet.🚽

thanks 🙂. well, am seeking viewpoints because when i’m rejected i think i did everything wrong. and while i get what you mean, the other thing is i apologized if i upset her and i think tried to be really validating, which was easy to do because i meant it! also, i am unsure why she came over, as she seemed detached as soon as she got there. it’s just confusing to me because i know i need to work on my social skills, but how could i have made it more clear that beneath any sort of conflict i respected her ideas a lot?

[evano]

12 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

We can't really say what actually went wrong because we weren't there. As for talking about kids in the manner that you did, leave that subject totally out with any parent...very touchy subject for some, not worth the risk. But all in all, it's not a match if you can't be yourself. If she is that sensitive and can't counter your opinion in a honest and positive way, you dodged a bullet. Look at it this way...from what you have said so far she's the one with the problem not you, and that's how you should look at it.

ok thanks this is the first time i dated a parent so i will keep that in mind. ha at least i admitted sometimes i talk about things i know nothing about. but yeah could could be right. i guess i’ll need get know for sure

[Batya33]

12 minutes ago, evano said:

ok thanks this is the first time i dated a parent so i will keep that in mind. ha at least i admitted sometimes i talk about things i know nothing about. but yeah could could be right. i guess i’ll need get know for sure

I think you were more focused on being right and expressing your strong opinions than being close -meaning getting to know her.  There is no general notion about kids and scary movies - kids are individual people and develop at individual rates and have individual sensitivities. I had a cousin who was scared when our grandfather wore a hat. 

I was terrified of throwing up-hearing it mentioned, hearing the sounds. And of the Chiller movies in the 1970s when I was young.

My son when he was a toddler was really scared of his Elmo doll because of the buggy eyes, but when I took him to see Frozen -his first movie in a theater at age 4 -he wasn't scared of the loud sounds, scary parts. But as his mom I kept an eye on his reactions, was ready to leave if it got too intense and never thought he "should" watch a scary movie.  And I would be really annoyed if a new person talked at length just to play devil's advocate about children should be exposed to scary movies.  And slightly worse if the person was not a parent.  

It's not about keeping it in mind when you date a parent -it's far broader than that. Ask yourself -is your purpose in speaking to have the person feel comfortable around you or to show off at what a debater/orator you are? Certainly she might be overly sensitive - I wasn't there.  Tread lightly on sensitive topics when first getting to know someone. Be a good listener -listen 80% of the time, talk 20% of the time - and don't rehearse in your head what you wish to say next.

 

[evano]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think you were more focused on being right and expressing your strong opinions than being close -meaning getting to know her.  There is no general notion about kids and scary movies - kids are individual people and develop at individual rates and have individual sensitivities. I had a cousin who was scared when our grandfather wore a hat. 

I was terrified of throwing up-hearing it mentioned, hearing the sounds. And of the Chiller movies in the 1970s when I was young.

My son when he was a toddler was really scared of his Elmo doll because of the buggy eyes, but when I took him to see Frozen -his first movie in a theater at age 4 -he wasn't scared of the loud sounds, scary parts. But as his mom I kept an eye on his reactions, was ready to leave if it got too intense and never thought he "should" watch a scary movie.  And I would be really annoyed if a new person talked at length just to play devil's advocate about children should be exposed to scary movies.  And slightly worse if the person was not a parent.  

It's not about keeping it in mind when you date a parent -it's far broader than that. Ask yourself -is your purpose in speaking to have the person feel comfortable around you or to show off at what a debater/orator you are? Certainly she might be overly sensitive - I wasn't there.  Tread lightly on sensitive topics when first getting to know someone. Be a good listener -listen 80% of the time, talk 20% of the time - and don't rehearse in your head what you wish to say next.

 

you raise an interesting point. i’ll try to explain for my case. first, i can see how you might see things that way, but actually my motive is not to be right! i just find certain ideas really interesting and like to have chats about them. it’s just that for me it’s more about the ideas, and for some people it’s more personal. i know i was interested in learning about her because i could list for you almost everything she said if you wanted to read lol. 

ha well i can respect your right to be annoyed. there’s no point in going into my opinion here, but i think a lot of people, like jim henson for instance, who make things for kids, like to include fear. anyhow, fair enough though. i wish i had just shut up because i didn’t mean to upset her. maybe i did mean to show off some because i wanted her to like me. but yeah, i’m an idiot

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, evano said:

 i just find certain ideas really interesting and like to have chats annoying tiring boring debates and inane arguments about them.

 

[evano]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

why? that’s really mean. even reddit was kinder than that. 

[evano]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

also you’re acting like i did it for hours. i stopped when she got upset. why do you come on here and give your two cents so often. you’re not interested in ideas?

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, evano said:

you’re not interested in ideas?

Yes. As you mentioned she got fed up and walked out. So aside from being incompatible, perhaps skip the devils advocate routine.

[evano]

it’s nothing compared to your behavior and lack of support right now. at least i was kind to her

[Wiseman2]

 

12 minutes ago, evano said:

why?  even reddit was kinder than that. 

See. You're doing it again. Being antagonistic and argumentative. 

[MissCanuck]

53 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're right about "playing devil's advocate", which basically means being antagonistic, argumentative,

I have a friend who is like this. 

And OP, I can tell you that it gets exhausting to listen to. I limit how much I spend with her in any one stretch because it gets old feeling like your thoughts or random opinions are constantly being doubted and questioned. Even if that's not your intention, be aware that is can come across that way. 

If you enjoy a friendly debate, you need to read the room carefully before engaging in this sort of thing and know when to drop the subject and keep moving. When you sense someone is getting defensive, understand that they're not enoying the conversation anymore. 

[evano]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

 

See. You're doing it again. Being antagonistic and argumentative. 

you have me a mean jab! i am defending myself. i think you could be kinder. this is not about ideas but rather being assertive

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, evano said:

We were still having a good discussion but then she unceremoniously got up to go like she couldn’t leave fast enough. 

She made the right choice.

[evano]

9 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

I have a friend who is like this. 

And OP, I can tell you that it gets exhausting to listen to. I limit how much I spend with her in any one stretch because it gets old feeling like your thoughts or random opinions are constantly being doubted and questioned. Even if that's not your intention, be aware that is can come across that way. 

If you enjoy a friendly debate, you need to read the room carefully before engaging in this sort of thing and know when to drop the subject and keep moving. When you sense someone is getting defensive, understand that they're not enoying the conversation anymore. 

is it for everything like your experiences or feelings or just stuff that’s highly debatable? thanks for your comment. also not trying to be snide but from my description does it sound like i was doing it “constantly”? this is a sincere question looking for feedback

[evano]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

She made the right choice.

you’re really mean. i have nothing against you personally. don’t understand why you are mean to me. i was seeking support. i am asking for criticism, but i hope for compassion. lots of people on here are depressed or vulnerable

[MissCanuck]

1 minute ago, evano said:

is it for everything like your experiences or feelings or just stuff that’s highly debatable?

No, if she were constantly playing Devil's Advocate about my own experiences or feelings I wouldn't be friends with her at all. I would consider that incredibly invalidating and not what friends do. 

The point is knowing when to drop the debate, regardless of what it's about.  If it's upsetting the other person, it's no longer a debate but just a conversation they want to end. 

[catfeeder]

14 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

When you sense someone is getting defensive, understand that they're not enoying the conversation anymore. 

Yep! In your case, OP, this may have been a perfect time to back off and say, "I think I overstepped here. You are obviously a qualified parent, and what you've said is sinking in for me ... and it makes a lot of sense."

This doesn't mean you need to agree, it just means that you're listening to the person you've presumably met to HEAR and learn about rather than squelch with your own knowledge, correct?

Head high, we all learn from living.

[evano]

if i dropped it as soon as i saw she was upset do you think it’s still really bad? would you personally dump someone for that? thanks

[evano]

24 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

No, if she were constantly playing Devil's Advocate about my own experiences or feelings I wouldn't be friends with her at all. I would consider that incredibly invalidating and not what friends do. 

The point is knowing when to drop the debate, regardless of what it's about.  If it's upsetting the other person, it's no longer a debate but just a conversation they want to end. 

 

20 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Yep! In your case, OP, this may have been a perfect time to back off and say, "I think I overstepped here. You are obviously a qualified parent, and what you've said is sinking in for me ... and it makes a lot of sense."

This doesn't mean you need to agree, it just means that you're listening to the person you've presumably met to HEAR and learn about rather than squelch with your own knowledge, correct?

Head high, we all learn from living.

thank you. just for the record i did apologize even though i know my point is also valid. that’s why i’m wondering if it’sa defensiveness problem on her part. not that i can’t work on my social skills. but it’s not like i was constantly ceaselessly bugging her

[evano]

26 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

No, if she were constantly playing Devil's Advocate about my own experiences or feelings I wouldn't be friends with her at all. I would consider that incredibly invalidating and not what friends do. 

The point is knowing when to drop the debate, regardless of what it's about.  If it's upsetting the other person, it's no longer a debate but just a conversation they want to end. 

if i dropped it as soon as i saw she was upset do you think it’s still really bad? would you personally dump someone for that? thanks

 

Quote

[MissCanuck]

2 minutes ago, evano said:

if i dropped it as soon as i saw she was upset do you think it’s still really bad? would you personally dump someone for that? 

I can't really answer that because I didn't hear what was said that she found upsetting. 

[evano]

20 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

I can't really answer that because I didn't hear what was said that she found upsetting. 

fair enough. im not totally sure either