I feel numb

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

We can't just attach ourselves to whomever agrees to be in a relationship with us.  We do need to be picky and be sure the person we're allowing into our lives is a good person who matches with us in important ways.

Agree. You told us about a couple big red flags that you ignored, and they were really big ones (the marriage thing, unemployment, finances). I am sure there were probably smaller warnings that you overlooked as well. This is not to rub salt in your wound. It's to point out that you got tunnel vision about this one goal and that's at least part of the reason you're in so much pain right now.

[moodindigo91]

On 12/26/2021 at 2:41 PM, Capricorn3 said:

When reading this, I can only strongly advise you look into some professional counseling/therapy to help you through this if you're clearly at the point that you can't cope.  You need help (imo).

"Why can't I find my life partner? That is literally all I want. Everyone always leaves."

If everyone always leaves, then I would say that you're the common denominator.  Also, one gets a strong sense of desperation on your side and that alone is enough to make people leave.  Your desperation literally oozes out of every pore and it's not an attractive trait to have - it makes people run.

Again, I would recommend therapy to help you figure why and where all this is coming from. I think you would benefit from it.

Thanks. I don't really agree. I have done tons of therapy. And I am doing therapy. And I don't feel desperate. I was desperate to save this relationship maybe. But that's because I felt something strongly about it. Maybe I sound desperate on this forum but that's because this is where I come to let out my raw emotions. So, I don't know. I don't think this is accurate. Maybe based on the post it is, but the post was written literally right after we broke up and I was feeling super ***ty. 

On 12/26/2021 at 2:59 PM, boltnrun said:

I decided to stop dating altogether until I figured out why I was not only choosing awful men, but why I was convinced I "loved" those men.  Obviously there was something wrong with my "picker".  

I was choosing men based on who approached me instead of dating slowly and deciding if they were right for me.  So I've stayed away from dating and really started thinking about what kind of man I wanted instead of what kind of status I wanted for myself.  To explain, instead of deciding "I want to be in a long term relationship." I changed it to "I want to be in a long term relationship WITH THE RIGHT MAN".  And yes, there is a big difference.  We can't just attach ourselves to whomever agrees to be in a relationship with us.  We do need to be picky and be sure the person we're allowing into our lives is a good person who matches with us in important ways.

Your ex was not a good match, and I know you know this.  

I agree with some of this. Everyone tells you you need to be alone to love yourself and blah blah. Idk. Maybe my picker is off or whatever that means. But I did tell my ex when we met I was looking for the man I was going to marry. I told him not to waste his time if he was not interested in something serious down the line. I was seeing a couple of other men when we met as well and was dating around. It's not like he just approached me one day and the next we were in a relationship. 

And honestly. I feel like we were a good match. I just think he has his own personal things he needs to work through. Things I was willing to help him work through. 

On 12/26/2021 at 4:54 PM, Jibralta said:

Agree. You told us about a couple big red flags that you ignored, and they were really big ones (the marriage thing, unemployment, finances). I am sure there were probably smaller warnings that you overlooked as well. This is not to rub salt in your wound. It's to point out that you got tunnel vision about this one goal and that's at least part of the reason you're in so much pain right now.

I get this. Makes sense from what I've posted. But also, I post here only about my problems! I don't come here and tell you about all the wonderful times we had and etc. When I met him I didn't have tunnel vision. I knew I wanted to have a life partner one day and that was it. I didn't really want to be in a relationship at that point bc I was starting law school etc. We took it slow for a while. But it felt so right. And it still felt right. And him leaving feels wrong. And it hurts. I know I've said a lot of stupid *** on here about how I never find someone that stays. But really. It's this one that really hurts. 

[moodindigo91]

And just fyi a lot of the pathetic things I said is just part of my grieving process. I'm still feeling like s**t. Having a hard time coping. But getting better. I saw him today and it felt great and also sucked. It sucks to have someone tell you how great you were to them and how much of a positive impact you have had as they pack up their stuff and leave you. He said "we had great times" -- like that hurts me. I didn't get into a relationship so we could have some great times for a while and then go our separate ways. And it just seems like that's all it was to him. Some great times. 😥 Idk. I just feel this like a true loss almost like a death. Other breakups felt like a loss and a gain but this feels like just a loss. I feel like s**t. 

[Capricorn3]

17 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

 I don't really agree. I have done tons of therapy. And I am doing therapy.

No problem that you don't agree.  We'll just agree to disagree.

I am however very interested to hear what your therapist has advised you with all this "tons of therapy"?  What does s/he say about all of these issues? Has your depression been treated? If not, why not?

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

Maybe I sound desperate on this forum but that's because this is where I come to let out my raw emotions. So, I don't know. I don't think this is accurate. Maybe based on the post it is, but the post was written literally right after we broke up and I was feeling super ***ty.

I get that. And it's important to remember that when you're reading through the responses. Only you have the big picture. It's one of those tricky things about posting in a forum, but it can also be helpful. You get to choose what advise applies and what doesn't. Doing so can actually help you define your problem even more. For example, you initially said that a life partner was "literally all you want." Well, you got a lot of responses that honed in on that statement and I think now you can admit that maybe a life partner is not really ALL you want out of life (though it is certainly an important part). 

What you said about this feeling like a true loss, almost death--well, I think that's true to some extent. But of course you're not dead. You will live, and life will go on and it will get better. Over time, this event will become smaller and smaller and the pain will go away completely. The idea of this relationship and subsequent break up becoming a tiny speck in your rearview may seem very sad at the present moment. But in the future, it won't seem sad at all. Just something you went through to get where you are now. I speak from experience.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

agree with some of this. Everyone tells you you need to be alone to love yourself and blah blah. Idk. Maybe my picker is off or whatever that means. But I did tell my ex when we met I was looking for the man I was going to marry. I told him not to waste his time if he was not interested in something serious down the line. I was seeing a couple of other men when we met as well and was dating around. It's not like he just approached me one day and the next we were in a relationship. 

I think the "need to be alone and love yourself" stuff is way too abstract and vague.  I was like you starting at age 19 or so (because around then my older sister and best friend each got engaged then married so actually the comments started but I actually did want to be engaged too). So this is going to sound contradictory but it made weird sense to me. I never ever told myself I'd be happy as a single person my entire life. 

Why? Because that was a big lie.  And I wasn't going to rationalize my goals away.  And - I created a fun fulfilling life for myself over the 24 years I dated (I also had a number of long term relationships in that time, two engagements, no marriages).  And - late in my 30s I had this aha moment where I realized I had to become the right person to find the right person. 

Do I "love" myself? I don't see it that way.  I did accept myself more or less.  I was my own cheerleader more or less as needed. I did have a very full life when I was single.  But I did not feel free- why? Because I didn't feel free to spend my limited free time as I wished. I made finding a husband a part time job -I spent most of my free time in activities and dating -where the activities often were related to meeting men or meeting people who could lead me to men. 

Yes I spent tons of time with my friends including married friends and friends with kids -no I wasn't using them to husband hunt - at all.  And I cherished that time. And also never became the person who said "well all my friends are married with kids so I'll hang with them because it's better than being "out there".  

I was wayyy more desperate for marriage and family in my early 20s than after my mid 30s.  Desperation was not a good look and made my picker off too many times.  "All I want is a partner!!" I told a therapist I saw briefly in the late 90s.  He told me at one point "the lady does protest too much" meaning -I think -I was getting in my own way.  I was.  He challenged me as in "if that's all you want, hold your nose and marry your [ex fiancee]"  

Get clear on what you must have in a partner to find a good match.  Do not settle.  Get to a place where you are making a life - where you have friends, work, volunteer work is awesome and/or activities that get you moving, get you interacting with people - hopefully some outdoors.  Travel if you can (yes I went to singles resorts by myself lol -was so much fun). 

Several of my friends met partners and spouses volunteering backstage at a community theater group.  But yes you have to strike that balance between that desperation that smells bad and attracts smelly people so to speak and being bluntly honest with yourself that no, self love and a forever single life is not what you're looking for.  Despite no guarantees.  None whatsoever. 

The balance is delicate but to me it's part of what's essential to become the right person to find the right person.  I would not be married now if I'd settled/been desperate.  We got married when we were 42 and became parents at 42 - first marriage, first living together for both of us.  Part luck, part timing, part both of us feeling that spark then taking that spark and building it to something lasting and solid. 

It's easier to be married at least where I live (and yes I lived in a city teeming with singles the first 43 years of my life), it's really nice to have a partner and family.  It's also nice to be able to sip coffee without hearing Roblox videos and without first having to make an early riser breakfast.  But no I don't buy the "single life is great -you're so free to come and go"  -not my thing.  Totally respect those who feel differently.  It's ok if you're not telling yourself that.  Don't give up but please do the self-honesty and self work.

[moodindigo91]

6 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

No problem that you don't agree.  We'll just agree to disagree.

I am however very interested to hear what your therapist has advised you with all this "tons of therapy"?  What does s/he say about all of these issues? Has your depression been treated? If not, why not?

I was diagnosed with situational depression several years ago and I did talk therapy for that, in person, every week. I stopped going after it was no longer needed (as was decided by my therapist and I). I started going again about a month or two ago by Better Help to deal with the stress and anxiety that I was feeling about transitioning out of law school and my relationship. It took me a while to find a therapist I liked there. I actually have an appointment today with my therapist. I encouraged my ex to go to therapy (which I'm pretty sure contributed to our demise lol). 

I think people come to this forum for certain kinds of responses and we give whatever information will get those responses. Obviously none of you know me. None of you know how I am on a daily basis or how I act when I'm with someone I love. I can assure you I am not running around in desperation trying to get affection or however it is you envision me. When I feel desperate and I want to get those feelings out, I come here lol so literally all you read about my life come from me in my moments of desperation. So your little diagnosis is just wrong because it's based in incomplete information. And anyway, the reason for this break up has to do with him wanting to go live in Europe or do whatever. Relationships are just not as important to him as they are to me. For him, traveling around is the most important thing I guess. 

[moodindigo91]

5 hours ago, Jibralta said:

For example, you initially said that a life partner was "literally all you want." Well, you got a lot of responses that honed in on that statement and I think now you can admit that maybe a life partner is not really ALL you want out of life (though it is certainly an important part). 

Yes thanks for your reply. I agree. I just don't appreciate how people try to characterize you in some way that isn't true based on what they write in a forum about break ups, like saying you're oozing desperation out if every pore lol it's not true and it's not helpful and it actually just makes me feel slightly worse for even having some moments of panic and desperation in the moments I was watching my relationship fall apart. 

And as for it being sad to think that this will be just another experience. That sadness feels overwhelming to me. I've never felt like this before after a breakup. And I have experience as well. You know? It just hits different. And I feel really hurt because despite having reservations I really felt loved and wholly accepted by this man. 

[moodindigo91]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

The balance is delicate but to me it's part of what's essential to become the right person to find the right person.  I would not be married now if I'd settled/been desperate.  We got married when we were 42 and became parents at 42 - first marriage, first living together for both of us.  Part luck, part timing, part both of us feeling that spark then taking that spark and building it to something lasting and solid. 

 It's ok if you're not telling yourself that.  Don't give up but please do the self-honesty and self work.

Thank you! I think what makes this so hard for me is that my ex and I both felt that spark too and we talked about it and I thought we were building it into something solid. But something changed along the way. Or maybe nothing changed and that was the issue. I still don't know. All I know is that he left and that it feels like he ripped out my heart and set fire to it. It just sucks to know you are not that important to someone you love deeply. He'd rather go live in Europe alone or whatever than build a solid relationship with a woman he claims he loves. When we met I gave whole speeches about the importance of relationships to me. How I don't take them lightly (any relationship, including friendships, etc.), how I feel like the connections you make are what make life special, especially the one you make with the person you decide to share your life with. He spoke with as much fervor on the subject. So idk. This feels wrong to me, but the decision has been made. I'm just having trouble accepting it right now. 

[Batya33]

I can imagine you must feel bind sided and maybe at some point you'll realize there were signs etc you ignored.  Also - watch the feet not the lips -what a person does not what he says (other than when a person says "I don't want a relationship [with you]") - what actions to you showed commitment and serious potential? I ask this question not so you can ruminate over the past but might help you to shift your focus away from speeches next time - just be short and sweet about your goals - a person with the same goals won't need a whole speech.  

[boltnrun]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:49 PM, moodindigo91 said:

I am worried about myself and my ability to get through this life anymore.

I think this statement is why people were so concerned.

I'm glad you're feeling stronger. Don't be too hard on yourself, but rather allow yourself to mourn the end of the relationship that you had hopes for. Soon enough you'll feel like yourself again.

[moodindigo91]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I think this statement is why people were so concerned.

I'm glad you're feeling stronger. Don't be too hard on yourself, but rather allow yourself to mourn the end of the relationship that you had hopes for. Soon enough you'll feel like yourself again.

Yeah I get that. A moment of desperation for sure. I am feeling more cold than anything. I am still having trouble depersonalizing this and letting go. I can't shake the feeling that he was the right one. It's annoying. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

Yeah I get that. A moment of desperation for sure. I am feeling more cold than anything. I am still having trouble depersonalizing this and letting go. I can't shake the feeling that he was the right one. It's annoying. 

Why would you try to depersonalize?  Feel what you feel.  You get to choose the reaction.  I know it’s annoying.  For me angry cleaning and or vigorous cardio exercise helps in similar situations.  There’s no need to let go. Way too tall an order IMO.  Basically you allow the feelings to exist.  Like an annoying fly.  Don’t debate or argue with the feelings.  It’s like trying to convince yourself not to be envious about someone bragging about her new boyfriend on social media.  
 

You know it’s silly because who knows what’s true or not true about it.  But annoyingly you still feel that cringey it’s not fair feeling. It’s ok.  Feel it. And go about your day. 

I’ve never ever depersonalized any of my prior relationships whether I ended them or otherwise.  One or two or three dates ?  Sure.  But relationships are personal. So are their endings. 

[Capricorn3]

7 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

 When we met I gave whole speeches about the importance of relationships to me. How I don't take them lightly (any relationship, including friendships, etc.), how I feel like the connections you make are what make life special, especially the one you make with the person you decide to share your life with.

Speaking for myself only, if a guy I met gave me "whole speeches about the importance of relationships" I would find it a little overwhelming and suffocating. I would know about the importance of what relationships mean, and therefore not need a potential new partner to launch into "whole speeches" about it.  The right person doesn't need a whole speech.  But like I say, that's just me, how I see it.  Maybe it works for some, but not for me.

All breakups are hard.  It takes time. Acceptance brings peace.

 

[moodindigo91]

24 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

Speaking for myself only, if a guy I met gave me "whole speeches about the importance of relationships" I would find it a little overwhelming and suffocating. I would know about the importance of what relationships mean, and therefore not need a potential new partner to launch into "whole speeches" about it.  The right person doesn't need a whole speech.  But like I say, that's just me, how I see it.  Maybe it works for some, but not for me.

All breakups are hard.  It takes time. Acceptance brings peace.

 

I say whole speeches to exaggerate. They were actually conversations between us. But we talked about relationships and their importance to the meaning of life and he seemed to be on the same page with me. That's all. Guess things change. If he felt suffocated I don't see why he would have decided to pursue me after that. And yet he did. I'm having a hard time accepting this. He just unfollowed me on IG (I unfollowed him last night) and I just feel so sad lol 

[moodindigo91]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Why would you try to depersonalize?  Feel what you feel.  You get to choose the reaction.  I know it’s annoying.  For me angry cleaning and or vigorous cardio exercise helps in similar situations.  There’s no need to let go. Way too tall an order IMO.  Basically you allow the feelings to exist.  Like an annoying fly.  Don’t debate or argue with the feelings.  It’s like trying to convince yourself not to be envious about someone bragging about her new boyfriend on social media.  
 

You know it’s silly because who knows what’s true or not true about it.  But annoyingly you still feel that cringey it’s not fair feeling. It’s ok.  Feel it. And go about your day. 

I’ve never ever depersonalized any of my prior relationships whether I ended them or otherwise.  One or two or three dates ?  Sure.  But relationships are personal. So are their endings. 

Idk. My therapist says I need to depersonalize this because it was his problem and didn't really have anything to do with me as a partner or whatever. And she says I have an anxious attachment style that makes me feel like I did something wrong which causes me to brood, etc. I think that is true in many ways. I think I tried too hard to build a relationship with someone who just saw it as an experience. And now I'm heartbroken because of it. 

[Capricorn3]

1 minute ago, moodindigo91 said:

 And she says I have an anxious attachment style that makes me feel like I did something wrong which causes me to brood, etc. I think that is true in many ways. I think I tried too hard to build a relationship with someone who just saw it as an experience.

I would say that is an accurate assessment. All you can do at this point is take this as a learning experience so as to not repeat it in the future.  Now it's onward and upward all the way.

[Batya33]

41 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

That's all. Guess things change. If he felt suffocated I don't see why he would have decided to pursue me after that. And yet he did.

So in the healthy long term relationships I have seen there is a basic understanding that the two people want to be together - limited "relationship talk" as you describe and little in the way of "pursuing" past the first handful of dates. 

Certainly I'm all for being direct that you're looking for something potentially serious, for marriage and family - but that's kind of one or two sentences at most -and the right person will get that - meaning even if he doesn't yet want it with you he will get what that means -no psychospeak needed.  And if two people decide to be a couple I mean where is the "pursuit?"  I think from the get go you were suspicious that he wanted the same things and thought a lot of words would reassure you.

So sure it is his problem and sure you did nothing wrong but most likely you two were not a good match.  That is personal -nothing wrong with either of you just not a good mix of two persons.  My concern is if you learn he got married or is engaged/committed and seems happy and content etc that this depersonalization approach won't really ring true for you.

[moodindigo91]

50 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Certainly I'm all for being direct that you're looking for something potentially serious, for marriage and family - but that's kind of one or two sentences at most -and the right person will get that - meaning even if he doesn't yet want it with you he will get what that means -no psychospeak needed.  And if two people decide to be a couple I mean where is the "pursuit?"  I think from the get go you were suspicious that he wanted the same things and thought a lot of words would reassure you.

Yeah maybe I didn't explain it well or give context but these are conversations we had while we were just casually dating, and I wasn't talking about relationships being important to the meaning of life to me at the same time I told him I didn't want to date anyone not looking for a serious relationship. Before we started officially dating, we were neighbors across the hall. We'd hang out at each other's apartments, and we had lots of really good philosophical conversations. We talked about life being inherently meaningless and how we create our meanings. And I told him, in my view, personal relationships are the key to bringing meaning to life. So anyway. Later on, our connection was strong and that's when I told him I was only interested in dating someone if they were interested in a serious relationship because I'm preparing to enter into a new career and all the stuff I've said a million times in my other posts. I think, in hindsight, he found that attractive at first because he was looking for something to fill a void. I don't think my love could fill the void he has. 

[Jibralta]

9 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

I don't think my love could fill the void he has. 

Maybe not. Or maybe he realized that he wanted to go in a different direction. That's what happened with my boyfriend. But at the time, he didn't realize that's what was happening. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

Yeah maybe I didn't explain it well or give context but these are conversations we had while we were just casually dating, and I wasn't talking about relationships being important to the meaning of life to me at the same time I told him I didn't want to date anyone not looking for a serious relationship. Before we started officially dating, we were neighbors across the hall. We'd hang out at each other's apartments, and we had lots of really good philosophical conversations. We talked about life being inherently meaningless and how we create our meanings. And I told him, in my view, personal relationships are the key to bringing meaning to life. So anyway. Later on, our connection was strong and that's when I told him I was only interested in dating someone if they were interested in a serious relationship because I'm preparing to enter into a new career and all the stuff I've said a million times in my other posts. I think, in hindsight, he found that attractive at first because he was looking for something to fill a void. I don't think my love could fill the void he has. 

All talk.  You called him a man child.  Or said we did or someone did.  It's telling that you keep focusing on deep conversations.  One day I was on the phone -many years ago at this point- and pacing back and forth as I do sometimes.  But I was actually looking for my hair scrunchie.  My husband (not sure if we were married at that point) wordlessly handed me a scrunchie. He has short hair.  Never used one.  How did he know??? 

Because he knew me, he got me, he saw what I needed and fulfilled it because he gives a darn.  I think that moment says so much more than all those talks you had put together.  It's the actions.  Much much more than the words.  And no I'm not being silly.  Or frivolous.  Philosophical conversations are awesome.  We have them, have had them.  Will have them.  Going deep is awesome.  It's actually not the glue, the real stuff, the real foundation that strong, loving, healthful relationships are made of or why they last.  IMHO.

We had premarital counseling -required - one session -with our wedding officiant.  He said - I know you love each other and I'm not going to ask if you do.  I want to know - what do you like to do together, to have fun?  So we looked at each other and said a couple of things we liked to do, and that we both love Seinfeld.  Big smile from the officiant -who we'd known for years, especially my husband -and he pronounced us a great match for marriage.  He didn't want to know what deep conversations we had, what our meaning of life was, whether we had the same definition of serious relationship.  He really didn't want or need to know.  And you won't either when you're with the right person.  He'll say "do you want to be my girlfriend" or "how about we only date each other" and you'll say "yes!" and maybe two more minutes like "hey - you know - I'm looking for forever, for my person, for a family someday - I just don't want us to waste each other's time if that's not your thing".  OK? OK.  That's it.  Pretty much the two minute conversation my husband and I had both times we were serious and especially the second - in two minutes we established -we were back together because we wanted marriage, we were going to be exclusive, I would be the one to relocate for his career if needed. 

Honestly I have no clue at all if he thinks relationships are the key to bringing meaning to life.  And I'm a person of depth as is he - understatement.  I figure he does feel that way or he wouldn't have wanted us to have a baby and get married and wanted to try again after we cancelled our first planned wedding. 

I figure since he acts as if marriage is extremely important and he had parents who had an awesome marriage albeit not perfect and he is so very family oriented and a man of integrity and ethics, I have no need to ask him.  Find someone where you have no need to make those grand pronouncements because you look into his eyes and you see the depth and meaning.

[moodindigo91]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I figure since he acts as if marriage is extremely important and he had parents who had an awesome marriage albeit not perfect and he is so very family oriented and a man of integrity and ethics, I have no need to ask him.  Find someone where you have no need to make those grand pronouncements because you look into his eyes and you see the depth and meaning.

🥺 Thanks. This really got to me. 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

🥺 Thanks. This really got to me. 

Your sharing about your long philosophical talks reminded me of a boy I went to high school with and then we ended up at the same college.  He wasn't my typical type - at that time - not "hot" but something about him.  This was in the late 80s when people had loooong phone convos.  We did - several -he was sort of down, depressed, not sure what he wanted to do with his life but he was a good athlete too (not football!).

  No internet, no cell -but I figured out his class schedule and would try to be nearby when he got out of class to "bump" into him.  We never had an actual date that I recall.  Never hooked up either.  He stopped calling.  A few months later I saw him with a girl on campus.  They're still married from what I've seen on Facebook (we have mutual friends).  So he was down/directionless, up for Deep Talks with me (no I don't think he ever lead me on, ever flirted inappropriately) - and I mistook that for interest in me, for being a person of depth who also was interested in me. 

I know your ex actually did date you and actually did show he wanted to be exclusive but it's the talk versus action and the hanging on to someone who is having deep philosophical conversations -but is just not into you enough to go the distance -you mistook the former for having specific interest in being with you in a serious LTR.

[moodindigo91]

He unfollowed me on Instagram and removed all of our pictures 😥

[moodindigo91]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I know your ex actually did date you and actually did show he wanted to be exclusive but it's the talk versus action and the hanging on to someone who is having deep philosophical conversations -but is just not into you enough to go the distance -you mistook the former for having specific interest in being with you in a serious LTR

Yeah. Maybe. I don't understand why he'd date me for over 2 years and move in with me and help raise my dog and travel with me if he didn't want an LTR. It feels like a sudden change or a slow one he never told me about. I am feeling absolutely devastated over this and I hate it. Why am I so stuck on someone who has clearly shown they don't want me. 😥 I felt so wanted by him up until basically September.