Turkish girl a lot less communicative but still agreeing to dates. Is she still interested?

[jazz_lover]

On the journey home yesterday we talked about going to a hipster area that neither of us had been to in a while on Friday. So she texted me today saying "shall we make Friday a staycation?" I confirmed she understood what a staycation was and booked us a hotel.

I guess the fact she is making it easy for me and giving me another opportunity to take things to the next level is a good sign. 

[boltnrun]

41 minutes ago, viking37 said:

On the journey home yesterday we talked about going to a hipster area that neither of us had been to in a while on Friday. So she texted me today saying "shall we make Friday a staycation?" I confirmed she understood what a staycation was and booked us a hotel.

I guess the fact she is making it easy for me and giving me another opportunity to take things to the next level is a good sign. 

Yes, that is good.

Go easy on the alcohol this time and I'm sure you'll have a lovely weekend.

[Rose Mosse]

1 hour ago, viking37 said:

On the journey home yesterday we talked about going to a hipster area that neither of us had been to in a while on Friday. So she texted me today saying "shall we make Friday a staycation?" I confirmed she understood what a staycation was and booked us a hotel.

I guess the fact she is making it easy for me and giving me another opportunity to take things to the next level is a good sign. 

Yes, enjoy. 

[jazz_lover]

Thanks. Getting a few jitters this morning. 

We were flirting a bit last night. She commented on the full moon. And I said it reminded me about the last full moon. She asked me how it was. I said "Mmm unforgettable ;)" and she said "Tell me more". So I was like "Yeah I spent it with some girl I know". She was like "Tell me about the girl". And I asked her how it was for her. And she said "Yeah I had nice time hanging out with some guy I know". So I was like "What happened to the guy?". And she was like "Yeah we were exploring food and drink in London together. He got some training hopefully on how to treat women he likes. And we will see what lies ahead".

Bothers me a little she is still talking in terms of hanging out and exploring London and as she has done a total 180 since I started picking up some checks I am feeling her interest in me is very conditional and therefore if I flop in bed tonight she could again completely cool on me the way she did a week or so ago. And while the alcohol was a factor and obviously won't drink tonight I think an aspect of it is performance anxiety because I do not feel accepted by her and I feel she is quite critical and judgemental and the way she went completely cold on me hurt me so I feel vulnerable around her. And that if the sex doesn't measure up to her expectations she will be gone.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, viking37 said:

 I was like "Yeah I spent it with some girl I know". She was like " "Yeah we were exploring food and drink in London together. He got some training hopefully on how to treat women he likes. And we will see what lies ahead".

Why would you say this? You stepped right into her giving you a taste of your own bad medicine.

You're not exclusive so of course she'll be drinking and dining with others.

It's not all about performance. Even if it goes better in that department, your silly comment about other women gives her the heads up to continue to drink and dine with other men.

[WaywardKiwi]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why would you say this? You stepped right into her giving you a taste of your own bad medicine.

I may be wrong,　I think the "some girl/some guy” remarks are flirtatiously referring to time they spent together, not regarding third parties. 

Hi Viking,

I have suffered failure to launch several times during the first sexual encounters with partners, including with my now wife. As you astutely observed, it is usually a combination of factors, and eliminating as many as possible is a good strategy. In terms of your nerves and performance anxiety, I would resist the temptation you have to put that on her. You clearly like her and are attracted to her, and she is clearly attracted and interested in you. You no longer need to search for clues.

From my perspective, you have become overly emotionally invested in progressing the relationship, rather than enjoying its natural evolution, and are over analysing and being hyper vigilant. That isn't to say you shouldn't be sensitive to the fact that, as you continue, you will become aware of personality traits or quirks which you will not necessarily like, and those traits may or may not mean you choose to end the relationship.

I hope that makes sense. TLDR, deep breath. You’re all good. Have a fun date, flirt it up, and enjoy.

Good luck,

T

[jazz_lover]

Yup the some girl/some guy comments were talking about us and she clearly understood. I'm not going to copy paste the whole exchange which would make it clearer. 

But yes I think you are right. I just need to assume she likes me and try to enjoy myself. 

[jazz_lover]

Well. We checked into the hotel Friday night and went for dinner together. She was incredibly sweet and affectionate and was being super nice to me. Afterwards she wanted to go to another jazz club but they were fully booked so instead went to a cocktail bar which was dead and playing terrible rap music so she suggested getting some wine and going back to the hotel. Foreplay got pretty hot and heavy but lost my erection first time round once I tried to put the condom on. She said we could try again later and after an hour of watching TV she initiated things and that psychologically must have helped as everything was fine from that point on and we had pretty good sex.

She told me it was the first sex she had since her divorce which was over a year ago. I said she must have had a lot of opportunities so why me? She said it would sound lame but she thought I was very steady and reliable and she felt she could trust me and liked that I was patient. 

Next morning we had brunch and had a lazy morning looking in different shops and going to a street market and she was basically hanging off my arm the whole time and she couldn't seem to stop smiling and looked very relaxed and happy and was sweet and affectionate. We were both tired so we had an early dinner and then I dropped her off home.

Within an hour she texted me this:

"Darling, hope u went back safe. I had a really good time and am feeling calm and very happy now. Thank you very much for organising everything, all selections were amazing and I can see your kind and gentle efforts in almost every step you take. Much appreciated, and i feel lucky🙏🏻🤍"

Obviously I was paying for everything and took her to a nice hotel and took her out for three meals so some of it probably is just her being polite and rewarding me for the effort I made. But seems to be some emotion in there as well. 

[WaywardKiwi]

Hey again Viking,

I think you are being a bit unfair in your assessment; it sounds as if, despite her earlier reservations, she has now been extreme demonstrative and expressive as to her interest and emotional attachment. At this stage, if you are likewise feeling invested, I would suggest you start to think about short te future plans, such as the new year period, and discuss these as an indicator of intention.

Carry on and good luck!

T

[jazz_lover]

You are right there have definitely been some changes in her behaviour towards me. She is initiating affection in a way she never did before and she's talking about future plans and on Saturday she had this goofy smile plastered over her face with her eyes shining. She was also asking questions like when my last relationship was, when did I last have sex, what do I look for in a relationship and so on which she never bothered asking on previous dates. 

My only real reservation at this point is compatibility. Obviously she likes to go out and have a good time and appreciates the fact that I know lots of good restaurants and bars and enjoy entertainment such as movies and jazz clubs and so on and also know my city incredibly well. And she seems to eat out and drink with her girlfriends and work colleagues most nights of the week from what I gather. And the lifestyle she wants probably isn't sustainable without a man picking up some of the bills which her ex husband was doing from the sound of it. 

I will have to see how she reacts if I occasionally suggest simpler dates and quiet nights in. Obviously right now I'm kinda courting her so wining and dining is kinda par the course but I'd like a little more balance going forward because while I love nice restaurants and drinking too much of it is tough on the wallet and also not that healthy. 

 

 

[boltnrun]

Make the next date a free or almost free date.  You don't have to "wine and dine" a woman who's truly interested in YOU, rather than what you can buy her.

Suggest a museum visit (usually pretty low cost) followed by coffee and dessert.  No alcohol.  See how she responds. If she's sincere about liking you she will want to go.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, viking37 said:

My only real reservation at this point is compatibility.

Good point. A party girl may be fun for laughs and hookups but is that what you want going forward?

It's not only about wasting a wad of cash on someone like this, but her lifestyle is clearly about drinking, partying, etc.

[jazz_lover]

We're doing botanical gardens and afternoon tea this Saturday. And she said she will cook me something when I move into my new flat. So that should be a bit cheaper.

She's been very communicative since the weekend. Sent me a message first thing this morning saying she knows I hate Mondays so wanted to send out some good vibes and suggested I get some coffee and enjoy some sunshine and sent me a picture of her hand holding a cup of coffee with the cheap ring I bought her at the street market proudly displayed on her second finger. And the "dears" and "darlings" are back in full force along with the photo bombing. 

So I guess I just keep doing whatever I am doing, mix in some cheap and simple dates so she doesn't come to expect the luxury treatment all the time but occasionally treat her, and wait for her to start asking where this is going?

I don't think she is a party girl. Just likes eating and drinking out with friends and colleagues. And I guess I only see her once or twice a week at the moment so if she wants to let off steam with friends and colleagues and enjoy more relaxed dates with me that probably suits us both. Really she is very relaxing company....we enjoy nice meals together as we are both foodies and then chill over drinks and music and hug and kiss and talk and it is very enjoyable so far. 

 

[jazz_lover]

Mmm so things have taken a slightly strange term. Even though we had already planned the botanical gardens for the weekend she was keen to go to a Halloween event with me and texted me a bunch of options. We settled on this New Orleans themed event at a cool bar and she said she would book the tickets to treat me as I deserved it. 

Then an hour later she texted me to say she'd mentioned it to her colleague and was it OK if the colleague and the colleagues' husband joined us? I said I would prefer if it was just her and me. But she said oops she'd already invited them and I guess we'll have to hope they decide not to come. And it could be nice to socialize with people but she'd totally get it if I didn't feel like that and she could invite them some other time. I told her it would be a little awkward as we'd both have to behave as she'd be with a colleague and we are still getting to know each other and that is harder with other people around but if things progress in the future I'd love to meet her friends and colleagues etc. She said "Sure no problem and she'll handle it". I said thanks thinking the situation was resolved. But after that she went quiet after previously texting me constantly since our weekend together and I really do not know now if we are still meeting tonight or who is coming or anything.

Also I do not really get why she'd want to invite them. Usually I'd think it was because she was uncomfortable being alone with me but we spent most of last weekend together and slept together so being alone with me at a bar full of people shouldn't be a big deal. I don't know whether it was a test and she wanted to see how I performed in a social situation. Or if she simply got excited and told her colleague about the cool party she was going to with me and then when her colleague got excited felt obligated to invite her to. 

Also I do not know if I am being unreasonable or not. I'd be spending the evening with her and two complete strangers. It would be a party so too loud to talk or get to know them. They are a married couple whereas me and this girl are just dating. She'd be uncomfortable kissing me or showing affection towards me in front of her colleague and would probably introduce me as her friend which would force me to pretend to be her friend all evening. And of course me and the husband would be expected to buy both girls drinks all evening. And as it is a weeknight I wouldn't be going home with her so there would be no opportunity for privacy and intimacy later in the evening. 

Part of the reason she wants to see me before Saturday is she wants to pick up the DNA kit I ordered for both of us as she is curious about her ancestry and to get a 10% discount she asked me to order and then she'd refund me her share. So I texted her this morning that the kit had arrived. Will see if that kickstarts a conversation and she then confirms what is happening tonight. But I am a little annoyed that she put me in a situation where I either had to agree to a group date or seem unsociable by refusing. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, viking37 said:

.  she said oops she'd already invited them 

Booze and parties. Relaxing, intellectual or nature things don't appeal to barflies, so she figured she'd scratch out your ideas and turn it into what she wants.

Getting drunk with her friends. Maybe you're just tagging along to pay for her drinking, rather than scratch you out completely. That's how she likes to play this.

She doesn't actually care if you are there or not, obviously, just as long as she can get drunk and stupid with people. 

[jazz_lover]

Yeah it really doesn't seem like a good deal. Me and her colleagues' husband will be buying the girls drinks all evening. She obviously won't be open to PDAs with her colleague around. It will be far too loud to have a conversation with any of them. And I don't like the way she invited me out and then changed the terms in the way that I could only refuse by looking like a jerk. And after saying "Sure no problem" she stopped texting me and when I texted her in the morning asking what the plan is she hasn't bothered responding to that whereas since Saturday her replies have been pretty much instanteneous and she's been texting me first thing in the morning last thing at night. 

[Kwothe28]

She already invited a friend to socialize. Its a party and she was maybe excited to introduce you to friend. After you firmly said "No" you put her in an ankward position where she had to explain that to a friend. I am not saying that maybe you arent right, after all she should have checked with you first instead of assuming you will agree. Just that maybe this wasnt the hill to die on and that you should pick your battles. Because I really dont think it was such a big deal for them to tag along to a big Halloween party. 

[jazz_lover]

Yeah I can see your point. Well it is a work colleague. She's only been working there 3 months so don't know how close they are. And maybe she was just excited to talk about the party and when her colleague said it sounded fun she felt it would be rude not to invite her to join. 

And yeah I can appreciate it is difficult for her uninviting her colleague and she probably feels embarassed about it and angry with me. And probably I should have just gone along with it and tried to score some points by being sociable and friendly so she'd then want to introduce me to other friends and colleagues. 

Not quite sure what to do about it now. The party is tonight and I don't even know if we are going together as I haven't heard from her since she said "She'd handle it" and she hasn't replied to my text this morning asking what the plan is. 

But I guess if this is a dealbreaker for her then she obviously expects any prospective boyfriend to hang out with her and her friends a lot of the time and I failed that test but I'm not sure it would be something I'd be keen on anyway. 

[WaywardKiwi]

Hey viking,

As Kwothe points out, it is a strange choice of hill to due on. She has clearly become invested in you and would like to continue to progress the relationship; perhaps faster than you are comfortable with. Im not sure what indications of exclusivity you have each made, however having spent an intimate weekend away together, and given your description of her past and personality, I am not at all suprised that she would want to begin intergrating you further into her life generally, and think she would reasonably be offended that you still consider this simply "getting to know each other" stage. 

 

To be honest, it appears from you ongoing unease in interacting with this woman, alongside your increasing suspicion of her motives, that perhaps you are not compatible, beyond your obvious physical attraction to her. Either that, or you are perhaps suffering under spectres of past relationships? In either case, it may be kinder to have the difficult conversation with her now. 

Best of luck,

T

[jazz_lover]

Yeah I think saying we were still "getting to know each other" was a poor choice of words especially after we've recently slept together and I should have maybe seen it as her wanting to introduce me to people in her life rather than her trying to turn a date into a group hang which I think is why I said "No". Well that and the fact she had already invited them before asking if I was OK with it. 

What is the best way to rescue this? I think we are still on for tonight as she did eventually text me back and she has already booked the tickets. But it is the same curt communication style and delayed responses as when I made the initial hotel proposition which upset her so I'm definitely still in her bad books. 

I have no problem progressing the relationship. We've been on almost 10 dates over the last six weeks or so and spent a lot of time together and we always have a great time together. But I get the sense a little with her that I have to say and do the right things or else she'll go cold on me like she did with the hotel proposition and now again after I said I wasn't really OK with her colleague and husband joining us. And I do not think that is a healthy basis for a relationship. 

If she really wanted the friends to join us and told me that she would be uncomfortable uninviting them then I would have gone along with it. But she told me that she'd get it if I didn't feel like it and said there was no problem and she'd handle it. But clearly it wasn't OK with it and I gave the wrong response. 

 

 

[WaywardKiwi]

Maybe you need to try seeing the narrative from her perspective? You had a date planned for the weekend, but her interest is so high, she wanted to meet before this to celebrate an annual event with you. She acknowledged your generosity but offering to pay, and was apparently so excited she immediately told her coworker when you accepted, who apparently is intrigued to meet this man she has probably been talking about nonstop at work. 

Your description here of events at least implies that she may be very materialistic, and that she is emotionally manipulative and withholding, however from my reading most of that assessment seems to be projected from your end. She is sending lots of clear signals of interest and you are making it difficult. Why is that?

Finally, I would add there is a difference between open and honest communication, and insensitivity. You shouldn't have to always say the right thing, but it is unfair to expect that when you say the wrong thing there wouldnt be some consequences.

Anyway, I don't really know either way, as I am sitting here on the outside with a very narrow view of it all. But I wanted to challenge you a little bit to see another perspective. 

Respect,

T

[jazz_lover]

Yeah I think I am starting to see that now. I mean she did invite me to this event so she is perfectly entitled to invite others along and it is a compliment that she is willing to introduce me to her colleague and 

I asked her if we were still on for tonight. She said "If u would like to yes, i got the tickets but if u dont want dont feel obliged to, i can find someone to go with if u dislike the idea. I am at the office today but i can let you know when I get home which should be around 5pm". So clearly she is feeling a bit hurt and upset still. 

And I do see that she has been showing a lot more interest in me recently and is playing an active role in making sure we have future plans together even inviting me to events. So I do really appreciate that. And I am OK with the materialistic thing because I am beginning to understand it is just part of her culture that the man pays and is generous and treats the woman. Only thing that bothers me is the cold treatment when I mistep which I am bound to do in the future. Because it is tough figuring out why she is upset and then figuring out how to make it up to her. 

The not paying for dates things was easy enough. I just had to take her on some fancy dates to show I cared and it was resolved. But no idea how to make up for this. 

[boltnrun]

She's obviously more interested in drinking and partying than going to a botanical garden where there are likely no bars.

As for the event, she may feel like she made an effort to treat you to a date and you said no to her idea.

And she invited her coworker so she could have a drinking buddy. You know she's all about the drinking.

You two may just be incompatible. She's a party girl. You want a girlfriend. 

[jazz_lover]

Told her that of course I want to go to the event with her and I am really looking forwards to it. She replied 

"Sure. But feel free to tell bec someone else asked me to meet today already and i said no. So dont feel obliged to come at all."

[Wiseman2]

41 minutes ago, viking37 said:

She said "If u would like to yes, i got the tickets but if u dont want dont feel obliged to, i can find someone to go with if u dislike the idea. I am at the office today but i can let you know when I get home which should be around 5pm".

It's pretty clear men are just wallet for drinks to her. As I mentioned, she doesn't even need you there if she can find some other fool to finance her drinking habits.

It's 10 dates. Cut your losses. She'll just clean out your wallet on getting drunk.

Sure she'll maybe sleep with you again but hey, if she can find some other fool to buy drinks she'll sleep with them too.