Disappointed in myself for still caring!

[alphonsefa]

I have made many long posts about my roller coaster ride with my Ex-girlfriend (feel free to do a search on my name, alphonsefa, to find them). I never thought I would've been caught up in a relationship like this. I hate myself for still caring about her. Since our breakup I have dated two beautiful women and yet for some reason I still think of her. What confuses me most is that as things have begun to fall into place for me, both professionally and personally, and new opportunities continue to open up, I am now thinking about her even more. I'm as busy as you can be, and yet still feel like this is that one scar that will never completely heal. It's like I have all of these great things going on in my life and dread coming home because I wish she was still there to share them with. I guess I'm in love with the thought of her, and not who she really is as a person. She showed me flashes of my perfect woman and those times are burned in my memory. Yet with her past, the abusive relationship and the bouts of severe depression, she just can't keep the train on the tracks. Her M.O. is to sabotage everything that is good in her life. She has done it with every relationship she has been in. Yet for some stupid reason, I thought I was different; that I was the one that could show her how great life could really be when you truly love someone. But she just can't keep it together emotionally, despite the years of counseling she's had. It's the hardest thing in the world to watch someone you wanted to share your life with, sabotage themselves and everything around them. When I intelligently step back and look at things, the way she treated me and acted was way out of line. She is what you would term, passive aggressive. She never cursed at me, never hollered at me, and would never argue with me; yet she would say and do things that would just rip my heart out. As much as I want her back, I know I don't want her back the way she was and probably still is. We had 3 breakups, none of them my fault or my initiation (please no lectures on it being both people being at fault). What was my fault was excusing her behavior the first time she took off to go back to her ex-boyfriend who was abusive to her. I think I gave her way too much slack, given her tumultous background when it came to relationships. She sucked me back in by telling me that she wasn't physically intimate with him after our break up. And honestly, I was wanting to get sucked back in. And as twised as she is, she is truthful about some things and that was one of them. Just the thought of her being with him, after everything she told me about him, was disgusting.

 

The second time we broke up was at Christmas. A month had passed and she started contacting me because she owed me money. The night she came over to pay me, we wound up having sex (totally unexpected), and she began calling again to come over my house. Then one day, about a week after we were back together, she tells me that she went back to the abuser on New Years day. There I was feeling like I could throw up on New Years Day and she was back with a guy that treated her like dirt. The thought of her being with him, after she swore she told him that they were done after our first breakup, repulsed me. That night I start throwing her own words back in her face and basically calling her bluffs. I wasn't mean at all, I just started agreeing with her view of our relationship and for some odd reason it didn't sit well. She didn't like it at all and again I got the cold shoulder. That went on for a week and then when she came over to pick up her laundry, I told her that for her to lay in bed crying (this happened Christmas night and was the night of our second breakup) because she wanted a ring and wanted an engagement (something I had every plan of doing, just not on Christmas night, my plans were for Valentine's day!); and then a week after dumping me, go back to an abusive ex again, was sick. Also told her that she was sick. I told her that they deserve each other because, he was a sick F*** for treating her the way he does, and that she is a sick F*** for going back. On the way out the door I told her that next time she gets depressed, "don't call me". She said she'd never call again. To which I responded, "good, you're a F***in nightmare and you've always been a F***in nightmare. It was a culmination of the frustration and constant mixed feelings she was showing me. One day she's making appointmetns to look at houses for us, and the next day she wants to be alone. This behavior was reapeated over and over. Running to me and then running from me, over and over again. Those statements may sound harsh, but in all honesty she deserved to hear it. She went back on everything she had told me and my forgiving nature had reached its limits. We had no contact for a month until I wrote her a short email telling her that I'm sorry things ended this way and that I still love her and always will. In no way did I beg for her to come back, it was more of a "what a shame things between us didn't work out, we could've had a great life together" kind of letter. The next night I called her and asked right away, "can we talk". She angrily and almost dismissively said, "NO". It's been 2 months since that phone call. I suspect I'm getting my wish this time and that I am out of sight and out of mind for her. I know that any further contact with her will have the opposite effect of what I would want. I treated her great (her words not mine), and loved her. Now I guess this thing ahs been beaten to death and the damage has been done. I guess I'm just hurting that I hope against all hope, that she'll do an about face and miss me once again. Yet her silence speaks volumes as to her feeling for me and my importance in her life.

 

She manages a store in a local mall, and I have avoided shopping there since the breakup. I fight the urge to pick up the phone or write an email everyday. I told her I wouldn't chase her like the abusive Ex does. He shows up to her house uninvited, her work uninvited, calls and leaves pleading messages to her about how bad his life is without her. Though I wish there was an un-obtrusive, extremely subtle way, to remind her of me. Yet I know there isn't and that the only control of the situation I have, is to let her go; someting I convince myself I've done at times, but then it just comes back. No matter how much I date, how busy I keep myself, I secretly hold the hope that she'll figure it all out, swallow her pride a little, and call me up. Yet I know it's all in vain. People never do change, do they?! Don't know why I'm hung up on her. Dating has never been a problem, I have been with other women since her, I am attractive, in shape, own a beautiful house, and have an excellent career. Yet I'm haunted and wish there was someway to get her back. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

[sidhat]

Dude ,

 

You are in the same situation like me.. its been 3 montsh me and my fiancee separated .. but sorry to say if the relationship ends up due to abusive or cheating behavior will never glow again..I also want my fiancee back like crazy but she never wants me back she was soo loving and respectable for me..

I missed her alot and the memories with her when she really wanted to be with me and i was just soo ignorant and abusive and meesed up my self with tensions and stress..

Now she moved on with some and she had a fear to tell me that I m in to some1 else..and our breakup was really bad.

 

I dont know I just keep working on with my life and going back to school to keep myself busy as hell..

 

But i get a big experience out of it that we cannot take love as granted.

 

take care .. Good Luck,

[ger_in_love]

i also broke up with my g/f after 8 years but for the last 12 mts we were intimate after break up, this morning i got closure off her and she said she cant see any future for us, fair enough, all one can do in that situation is let them go,and dont annoy them, let them call u if they want to, she wants to remain close friends, and i will try to be a friend to her after a wee while,

 

to answer your quesion, there is nothing u can do, what will be will be, i can tell u i done more than any guy alive to make her happy and try to win her back, waste of time, she has to come to u thats the crux of it, there are some girls, who may have had a rough life that cant hack it with a nice guy they are not able to handle kindness and sweetness, but they end up with an ass**** because they are able to handle that situation cause thats what they are used to

 

all i can tell u is try to be her friend be there for her, maybe through friendship the spark can be relit, but u really have to go back to square one with her, ie: become her friend gain her confidence, laugh joke no pressure of relationship, and maybe just maybe u can woo her back again, im not talking about tomorrow, it make take years, but she will have to want u back, no pressure ok!

 

my "ex"as confirmed of today, told me that if i hadnt pushed her away 12 mts ago by begging her back we would prolly be together

 

so play cool try to be friend, (maybe send a nice txt msg ?) to her over time that is the only advice i can give u

[loveseeker]

You care so much because you are ANGRY (understandably) and confused, and you think that all this hurt and confusion could end by being with her.

 

However, nothing's changed and YOU BOTH KNOW IT.

 

You have to find other ways of dealing with your anger; let it turn to gratitude that you no longer have to deal with this nightmare...

[Royltnxile]

Alphonsefa,

 

It's very simple...

 

You are a great guy who is loving, supportive, attentive, and totally into making her happy. Probably the guy she has dreamed about all her life.

 

thereforeeee it makes PERFECT SENSE why you and her are not together any more...

 

Twisted, yet true!

 

I'm in the same situation. Your girl is like mine in alot of ways (depression, self esteem issues, anxiety). Mine is not as erratic and abusive as yours, but she has a ton of emotional baggage that would require a fleet of earth movers to get rid of I think.

 

I feel sorry for her, and you should feel sorry for your ex too. You sound like an emotionally healthy guy with alot going for you. Do what I have done and ask yourself if you really want to saddle yourself with someone as emotionally irresponsible as your ex?

 

Another thing to consider: Your ex has no love of herself, and it's obvious she isn't comfortable with who she is...her issues with herself and her past manifest themselves in her romantic relationships. There is NOTHING you can do to "fix" or "improve" her. She has got to do that on her own realization.

 

As much as it sucks, move on. I'm in the same boat too. There are other women interested in me and my life is generally positive and interesting...yet still I long for the return of my precious Sharon who chose to run from her feelings for me rather than face her own fears, insecurities, and anxieties.

 

There are better women out there for both of Alphonsefa! Hang in there!

[coasty]

I had a similar type of relationship a few years ago. Everytime we got too close, he got scared, and broke things off. The last time we got back together (third time) I moved in with him, and we talked about marriage. This man was my greatest love. I still think about him. Anyhow, living together only lasted 3 months. We've now been broken up for 5 years! I think that if he hadn't of been so screwed up (he had a rough upbringing/adolescence) we might still be together. Something about him makes him run when things are at their best.

 

My advise to you is just keep doing what you are doing. Keep moving on. Don't do what I did. I stayed alone for 3 years, became depressed, and reclusive.

 

Good luck to you.

[smallworld]

Alphonsefa, I feel sad for the both of you. You're a wonderful man and she's a fool to keep picking chaos/drama/pain over you. Your brain already knows the truth, but your heart has a little catching up to do.

 

Several years ago I found myself giving everything I had to a dysfunctional relationship. I was stuck and confused on why nothing I did ever made a difference. Somehow when I read it the 'Broken Popcorn' story, everything clicked. Hope it does the same for you...

 

link removed

[Ripples]

You know what? This is the first forum that seems to fit my situation. Smallworld that story makes so much sense to me. It really is very good , thank you for sharing it.

 

One question, when the popcorn machine knows it is "our of order" and is actively working with the repair man to fix the problem should you wait to see if you get the popcorn? Or should you continue to walk away knowing that popcorn machines cant be put right?

[Ripples]

Can I also say Alphonsefa, your story is very similar to mine. I cant really offer words of comfort because I am as puzzled as you as to why someone would behave in this perceived irrational and irresponsible way.

 

I think we just need to remember that it isn't really us. I dont believe we have done anything wrong, we are just dealing with someone who is different from us and is stimulated by other unconventional things. As Royaltnxile says "There is NOTHING you can do to "fix" or "improve" her. She has got to do that on her own realization". This is so important to understand and yet this is the hardest thing to accept. It is so tough to accept that there is no other option open to us other than walking away.

 

We shouldn't feel that we have been rejected because we are not good enough for these people. Royltnxile really hits it on the head for me. There are millions of fantastic stable women out there all craving the love we want to give. In time we will be strong enough to appreciate this, however we must accept that healing will take time and pain. Switching emotions and feelings off and on at will is not an option.

 

Just remember that you are not alone in your confusion and disapointment.

[smallworld]

One question, when the popcorn machine knows it is "our of order" and is actively working with the repair man to fix the problem should you wait to see if you get the popcorn? Or should you continue to walk away knowing that popcorn machines cant be put right?

 

Hey Ripples! Even if a repair man is present, I'd find another popcorn machine. Sounds like you've come to the same conclusion!

[Ripples]

You are right smallworld.

 

What you are saying is that even if a faulty popcorn machine is fixed it isn't worth waiting around to find out. The thing is, I keep sneaking a look back over my shoulder in the vain belief that I still might get the popcorn once the repairman has fixed things. I know what I need to do I just struggle to focus sometimes. That is very tough to do.

 

What if the damn thing sprouts legs and starts chasing you once it believes it is fixed?

[smallworld]

What if the damn thing sprouts legs and starts chasing you once it believes it is fixed?

 

Your call. Do you really believe she's 'fixed'? Sincere about wanting to work things out with you? Do you trust her?

 

link removed

[Ripples]

I hear what you are saying. I guess in this type of situation actions speak louder than words. If they can show you (over time) through what they do rather than what they say then you will have more of a solid foundation to regenerate trust. Until then they have proven that you cant trust them so you must walk on. That process could take years and thereforeeee it's like a stalemate situation. Right?

[smallworld]

That process could take years and thereforeeee it's like a stalemate situation. Right?

 

Yes! But for me the question of whether to wait for the machine to be repaired isn't a matter of time, but of odds. How likely is it that this machine will ever change for the better? Why keep investing one's hopes in a faulty machine when there are plenty of functional ones that can give you popcorn without the angst and frustration?

[Ripples]

That is a very good point. What are the odds?

 

From what you are suggesting they are not good. In that case, if (and it is a big "if") you do get back with a faulty PCM then you have to be prepared for future problems. Ie the baggage and unpredictability will always be there lying dormant!

 

I guess if you choose this route then it comes down to how much you love your PCM v's how much self respect you have. The hard thing is when you are a decent, caring person the last thing that comes naturally is to walk away from someone in need of help, especially when you love them.

 

Maybe we are just in love with the illusion of what life could be like if you could fix the machine.

 

Do you think faulty PCM's unintentionally prey on people like us?

[smallworld]

Do you think faulty PCM's unintentionally prey on people like us?

 

I can't say, but the older I've become the more I realize that PCMs hurt others simply because they're selfish and are trying to do whatever they can to maximize their self-interests.

 

Regardless a PCM can't prey upon us, if we don't let it! The main reason I found this essay liberating is because the author used a machine analogy to get accross the idea that PCMs fail us because they're inherently flawed (dysfunctional). Machines can't have "intents."

[alphonsefa]

After 3 1/2 months of no contact, she called me to see "how I was doing". This is a woman who angrily had professed that I will never call you again! Why after all this time would she suddenly care about my well being? At the breakup I told her to go the F away, that she was a sick F for going back to a guy that abused her, and that she was really sick doing it only a week after she sat there crying on Christmas, because she thought that was the night she was going to get a proposal from me. I specifically told her not to call me the next time she got depressed.

 

This all wasn't done to be mean, I had just rached such a level of frustration with her that it just brought things to a head. She was constantly pulling me in and then pushing me away. Things would be sailing along, and then she'd have a bout of depression and push me away. I'd leave her be by not contacting her, and then she'd call me back up to get back together. But in retrospect, all of her attempts to come back, and for that matter, her demeanor in the relationship, all seemed half hearted to me. I had repeatedly told her, that I don't want someone who doesn't want to be with me. When I step back and look at her words and especially her actions, this woman could've never loved me. Then why would she call after all of this time? She knows I've always loved her and always will. She also knows that she is flake and can't make her mind up whether that involves me or the abusive Ex she somehow floats back to.

 

At the breakup when I told her that he was a sick F for the way he treated her, and that she was a sick F for going back, she proudly professed that, "well I'm not with him anymore". Oooohhh a whole month she had made on her own. It was sort of like a drug addict telling you that I haven't used in a couple of days so thereforeeee I've kicked the addiction.

 

She hasn't called back in 5 days now and I won't call her. I gave it my best shot everytime and made it too easy for her to come back each time. The creepy part about it is that she started treating this relationship the same she did the one with the abusive Ex. She would basically cast him off for a couple of months and then she'c call hi, to "see how he was doing", and things would start up again. She started putting me in that role. Now she flat out told me that she is bad with relationships. Fine, then leave me alone. Why did she suddenly have an interest in my well being. When she called I kept the conversation limited to careers, what she was doing and what I was doing. She obviously wnated to keep the convesation short, so when she put a closing line out there like, "well I just called to see how you were doing". I said, "okay, well it was good hearing from you, take care and bye". Is this just yet another little mind game she is playing with me. She knows I would never want to be just her friend. Why did she crack the door open again with the phone call?

[Ripples]

Im sorry to hear this has happened to you but I have to say I think it was always going to happen.

 

I think the reason she did this is highlighted nicely by Smallworld in her last post... "PCMs hurt others simply because they're selfish and are trying to do whatever they can to maximize their self-interests". In other words, this girl was probably feeling low, depressed, lonely, neglected whatever, and believed that by contacting you she would get the sympathy she craved. You were the natural default. I doubt very much that it was because she wanted you and her to get back together again. Remember, she is flawed. What you did so well was not to be fooled by her antics - in essense you didn't put more money in the faulty machine which is very commendable because that is so tough to do. I have failed to do this on three separate occasions and each time it left me in a heap. Thx to this forum it wont happen again.

 

As smallworld said these people are dysfunctional and like "machines", and we really must remember this fact and deal with it. As fixers we have to accept that we have met the unfixable. Unfortunately the only answer is to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Dealing with the natural pain of the situation is going to be very tough though.

[smallworld]

Ripples, I couldn't have explained things any better, but thank you for giving me undeserved credit all the same.

 

Alphonsefa, she's dysfunctional and just doing what she's always done before. The good news is you have a choice as to whether or not you're going to keep investing your emotions in this woman.

[Ripples]

Knowing now that my ex's "dysfunctional" behaviour is not because of me but because of her own issues has really opened my eyes, but, I now have the mega big question cropping up in my mind - why is she dysfunctional?

 

I probably will never find out the exact root cause reasons and to be honest I dont think I need to. Those defining moments happened many years ago when she young and vulnerable. However, a little bit of research into the phsychology of why people are what they are has really answered so many puzzling things about my ex's behaviour. Knowing that there is something very defining in her past that has fundamentaly shaped her personality helps me deal with things so much better. I still love her and I still miss her but there is absolutely nothing I can do to change things. Only she can do that, no one else. Whether she ever will remains to be seen. In truth, as Smallworld points out, it is highly unlikely.

 

The reality is that the reason we didn't work out is because she wasn't familiar with the way that I related to her. She knows I am a good man but doesn't feel comfortable with being treated that way. It is unfamiliar territory to her and thereforeeee not right.

 

Knowing this helps so much.

 

Can anyone help out here???

[smallworld]

Hey Ripples, I'd be happy to help, but it looks like you've done all the hard work already. Is there some specific information you're looking for?

 

Btw have you perused the rest of Dr. Cabot's advice site? She had info there about how to prequalify the next love prospect and how to spot and avoid PCMs. link removed

[Ripples]

Thats nice of you to ask smallworld.

 

My ex apparently had bulimia when she was in her early teens. When I knew her aged 30 she was obsessed with her physical looks. She was a vegetarian and worked out obsessively evey other day. She could be very effectionate but there were many times when for no apparent reason she would turn off and not speak to me for hours. It was like the sulk from hell!

 

She tells me there are things in her past that she is trying to come to terms with at the moment. Im assuming it is those issues that made her what she is. The thing is, if I was to know what was behind this weird behaviour I would be better able to understand why she behaves the way she does.

 

One other thing that was a little strange was that she didn't let me kiss her for a long time after we first met, (even when we slept with each other).

 

Any ideas?

[smallworld]

Hi Ripples, Glad to be of service. Pure conjecture, but here's what I think:

 

I once had a bulimic friend. The bulimia was one of the many dysfunctional ways she used to cope with the feelings of helplessness that came with childhood sexual abuse. Your Ex may have never been sexually abused, but all women have to contend with the concept that "Beauty = Self Worth, Power, and Love." Essentially bulimia is a dysfunctional means of maximizing self worth that helps one feel in control over one's body/life when everything else is spiraling out of control.

 

This book particularly helped me understand the psychology behind eating disorders:

 

The Secret Language Of Eating Disorders

Author: Peggy Claude Pierre

"Peggy has set up a clinic in Canada to treat Eating Disorder victims after she "cured" her two daughters of anorexia. She talks about how an eating disorder manifests itself and she describes her incredible treatment methods. A VERY good book."

Published By : Random House 1997

 

Other useful books listed here: link removed

 

As for her hot-cold affectionate nature, it usually has to do with a fear of intimacy/commitment.

 

Kissing can be more emotionally intense and intimate than the sex act itself. Sometimes not wanting to kiss is just that, but with the other red flags you've mentioned, it sounds like she was trying to limit/avoid emotional intimacy with you.

[patience]

alphonse,

 

Have you ever heard of borderline personality disorder? Your ex was/is displaying some symptoms for sure. If you google it, you'll find info. and support out there...your situation sounds awfully similar to what I've read about this disorder, and it may help you somewhat to read about it.

 

You know that your ex is not okay. You reached the point where you became verbally abusive, and that is not good for you or for her. Let me guess, that was completely out of character for you? Right? Because you were having a normal reaction to crazy behavior. Staying involved with someone as troubled as she is will only bring you down into the mire with her. Save yourself. It's not your fault she is the way she is, you can't 'fix' her...no amount of love in this world would make a difference. I think she needs some serious professional help from what you have shared here. She has a patten that cycles. You know the pattern. She has to go and get help on her own though, and stick to it, for it to mean anything.

 

It would be best for your emotional health to stay NC with her. She is the same woman as before, you know this.

 

Water seeks its own level. You deserve better.

[patience]

...and also, I wanted to add, there is someone (hey, many someones!) out there who embody the qualities you are seeking without the drama, chaos, and psychological abuse!

 

You may also want to check out "intermittent reinforcement" and abusive relationships...again, just do an online search and read away.

 

Good luck! Stay strong! Keep posting here!