How to tell someone about their body image

[Kyoshiro Ogari]

Hi,

 

I have a dilemma and I hope someone can help me.

 

My friend is a very talented female singer. She has pretty good stage presense and I really think that with a little training on "the overall package", she could be a huge star one day... and I do mean huge, which is the problem.

 

Recently she was telling me that she doesn't know why she hasn't made it in the big-time. She knew someone who was a gorgeous Britney Spears-type in terms of looks and how she was offered a contract on the spot, whereas my friend doesn't get those offers. She is really beginning to doubt her singing ability and thinks that her friends are telling her that she's good just because we're her friends... which is complete hogwash. The truth is, her image is not what the music business would consider "marketable". She is not ugly at all, but she is not beautiful in terms o "dress her up in this outfit and shake your this-and-that". You can probably compare her to Kelly Osbourne bodywise, but I think she is waaaay more talented. I wanted to tell her what I thought, but I just couldn't. I know if I told her she wouldn't think I was mean, because this is not my feeling - but it would hurt her self esteem even more. But truthfully, if she were what the mainstream calls "pretty" she'd have contracts shoved in her face.

 

She is a plus-sized woman and just presents herself as she is. She has won singing contest going up against pretty girls, semi-pro singers, ect. So she has the talent, no doubt. I feel she is about 80% there because her nerves can mess her up at times. I wanted to tell her that if she looked like a supermodel she would have her contract - unfortunately that's how the business is from what I see and from the stories she has shared. Heck, if she tried out for American Idol, Simon would've told her the same thing, and it's a damn shame. But I tell you one thing, in my opinion, with her personality and singing talent, she would've been in the top 10, maybe top 5... I just know it!

 

So how would you handle this. I always tell her to keep her eyes and ears open for talent scouts, promote yourself and you'll run into someone. But deep down, I feel that she's headed for a long road because of her weight. Remember the ordeal Nancy Wilson from Heart, Carnie Wilson from Wilson Phillips and some other "non-Barbie Doll" female singers went through. This world is so shallow sometimes I wish I would fart on it... but not you guys, I'd hide you in an air-tight bubble or something.

[cleverme123]

First off, if she has talent, someone will pick her up. I agree people can make it easier to sell to people that are supermodels and skinny and what not. Basically, you are doing what 3/4 of other people in america already do. Your are stereotyping and assuming because she is not skinny and pretty that no one will want her. Quite frankly if you were my friend and you told me I was fat and needed to lose weight to get a contract, I would find a better friend.

 

I don't think it's your place to tell her what she needs to do in order to get a contract. She already has won contest and what not, based on ability not looks. Ruben Studdard wasn't skinny was he. You have to believe in her by what she does and not believe she could be something else because you want to change her looks. As far as your crack about Simon on american idol, he is arrogant and does allow bigger people into the competition.

 

What really fires me up is that you feel you are so right about all this. Can you guarantee that if she changed everything she would get a contract?

[DN]

the hard fact is that Kyoshiro Ogari is probably right about the weight. It is very hard for big people to make it. Where she is probably wrong is about the talent. To make it to the top you have to have the talent, the 'look' of the moment, a total commitment and incredible luck.

 

Central Casting in Hollywood used to have a sign up that said something like "For every ten thousand people who apply, we accept one" I don't have that exact but you get the point.

 

So to 'guarantee' she would make it if she lost weight is a compliment to her talent but inaccurate.

 

I am sure you want only the best for your friend and truly have her best interests at heart, but IMO you would be better advised to be as supportive as you can of her as she is, rather than as you think she should be.

[Jetta]

I'm going to tell you I've often wondered the same thing about image being everything. And as a teen that's why I quit before I started. I too sing, and am plus sized.

 

Whenever I sing people, strangers, come up to me with compliments. I've been told on more than occasion that I have gift from God and I should be sharing it. I've had professional musicians tell me I should be earning a living as a singer. I'll find my niche. If I have something God wants me to share it's going to happen one way or another.

 

I continue to put myself out there. I get a lead here and there, but like her nerves do get the better of me sometimes. The more I quit judging myself and just sing, the better off I am. I'm getting better with experience. I've actually been singing publicly for about a year now. It's the most fun I've had in a long time.

 

Yes image matters but there is more to it than that. I'm taking image out of the equation and learning other things I can do better instead of blaming it on my look, which I am also working on. Trust me there is a lot more to it than I thought. My name is getting out there and I know they're watching me.

[Mun]

It's a shame, but it's true: In order to be "marketable" you have to fit a certain criteria. I read somewhere that Beyonce spent her teens on lean cuisine and water in order to keep her figure. The girl is talented, but with some others... I wonder how much of it is looks as opposed to talent .

[Kyoshiro Ogari]

Hey hey, don't get hissy with me! I'm going by what I saw, I did not say that I wanted to change her. It is not me who is stereotyping. I am not assuming any of this, I've seen it happen throughut the course of five years. I did not say that my word is law, this is my opinion from the many examples that I've seen when she's encounted talent scouts. I wrote this thread because I saw the pain in her eyes and the doubt about her ability and I wanted to find a gentle way to tell her what they think, that she is a terrific singer. I would never tell her to lose weight just to be a singer, that is absurd. I've been telling her about her talent and how good she is and how someone will see her for it and give her a shot, but she still doubts her singing ability. But from what I've enountered with managers we've met, the weight issue always comes up. They never say it (well, two of them did) but they look her up and down as if they are trying to merchandise her look. I am not telling her to change at all. I am telling her what they think and why they are wrong. I did not write this thread to tell her to lose weight, merely to tell her that they are looking at her more than hearing her. We have seen ultra-thin/buxom girls get contracts, and they can't even hold a note, meanwhile my friend is in the same room, wowing the audience and gets passed over. That happened as early as last month. That's why I think that. Trust me, if you've heard her sing, you would wonder why she's not out there, because all of my friends who don't know her as well as I do wonder why she doesn't have a contract. And unfortunately she has to put up with the talent agents who look the other way at Miss Pretty who can't sing a tune. And that "crack" about Simon was an example which I've seen him do on plenty of occasions about image, not just weight, but the overall look. If my original thread gave you the wrong indication I apologize, but I do not appreciate someone assuming that I am the villain here.

 

 

 

Good luck to you, but also go at it full speed if this is your choice of career. Get business cards, a website, (if you don't already) and it will come to you. I pray that your dreams come true.

 

Well I am just going to tell my friend to put 110% into it and not to doubt her singing ability. If no one approaches her, then she should approach them. It's just that on plenty of occasions she's been the best singer "of the bunch" and they pick the prettiest of that bunch who can't sing worth a dern. It make me sick how shallow Hollywood and this world can be.

[Meow18]

It really diguists me too. I don't want to see any more "Britney Soears' ", I want to see normal looking people who actually have talent. Its ashame that thats the way it is because thats the reason we have so much low self esteem, because Hollywood created what was beautiful. Britney Spears isnt' even as beautiful as she seems to be in the magazines, its all fake.

 

Just support your friend. I have a feeling that she might somewhat realize that she doesn't have the "hottest" look to her. Its like, unless you have the looks, you need to have some sort of connection. You know, like Ashlle Simpson, or Kelly Osbourne. That type of thing goes to show you that anyone with money and a famous relative can make it, whether they have the talent or not. Its ashame.

 

Personally, I don't think she should change (and I'm not saying you think she should either..). If she is comfortable with herself the way she is, then thats great. She shouldn't change herself just to fit what Hollywood thinks is hot.

 

I would say that you should just stand by her. Keep an eye out for contests that she could be a part of and other things she can do with her talent.

[11flower]

This is a really good topic to talk about. As to your friend, if I were her, I'd do my best to get out there, advertise and put my name out there. Be exposed as much as possible. Take the acceptable opportunities given her. Volunteer if she is able to for fund raisers and that.

 

I am also a musician, studying to be a darn good jazz musician/composer. The only goal I have at this point, being that I have a whole family and occupational goals as well, is to put my music to disc and keep playing somewhere occasionally to keep my skills tuned, as well as lessons. (I'm taking a break from lessons to study for a final though now). Oh, I also sing, but have little opportunity to do this till I pursue it more. When I get some charts to disc, I could eventually hire some good musicians to record it live. I also know people in the industry who will hear my music once it's on disc. Also, if it were to be recorded and released is when it could be sent to radio stations for airplay. Get the gist?

 

Does your girlfriend have plans to record?

 

Networking! Keep getting to know people out there.

 

My piano teacher's wife is a fantastic jazz singer, writer, multi-instrumentalist, very talented woman, and plus size. My teacher is a bit overweight, yet a somewhat well-known jazz pianist in this area of the states, radio figure, and sought after educator to a degree. Neither of them are no less attractive; they are an attractive couple. This lady also has a show as a DJ on a jazz station and does free-lance work as well. I guess why I'm telling you this is that I think you're girlfriend could consider looking in other venues, not only the pop thing, if that is indeed the venue genre she is primarily looking.

 

Another guy I work occasionally with shared his story: He had written songs and auditioned with some big names somewhere in Nashville. He was told that he was "too old". Go figure. He was only around 30 at the time. So, he takes jobs leading bands in churches and is excellent at stage presense and connecting with the audience--very important and takes a talent to do that! Point in case, in some genres and venues, sex is part of the sale and success.

 

So, I think it's also looking for jobs while not limiting yourself to opportunities and not being afraid to get your name and talent out there. The more she is heard by many different people, it's likely she will eventually have more opportunities.

 

Let's face it, the pop scene gets rediculous to a point. The cosmetic glamorization that goes along with music such as the Britney Spears, Denise Aguilara, etc., are such hype. Aguilara has a fantastic voice and is a phenomenal singer. Look at what she has to sell to keep people buying her records?

 

If I were your girlfriend, I'd find many, many different genres to become proficient in. That way, there'll be more opportunity for recognition.

 

Her weight? Let's just ignore that for now. Get her to make the most of her pretty physical features. There are ways. Get advice as to clothing and flattering the positive features. A woman does not, nor does a man, have to be lean and thin to be very sexy and attractive, you know.

 

Get her looking in different venues and being more marketable that way.

If she wants to lose weight if she can't live with being a plus size, then why not go for this while she is still pursuing getting her talents and name out there?

 

"Seek what you are seeking, but not where you are seeking it."

-Wisdom From a Monastery

 

Every successful name had a mountain climb to endure in perseverance.

It's hard work, but well worth rewards, if not for just the joy of doing it!

 

11Flower

[cleverme123]

Not meaning to make you into the bad guy but personally if she sings really well yet has another talent or career that supports her she is better off that way. So few people actually make it in the pop rock, country world any how. The statistics are awful. I am merely saying that she could easily be offended by you telling her that she should change for them.

 

My thought is, that if she continues to sing yet still pursues other things if she does get turned down she won't be disappointed. If it was meant to be, it will although she may get 5000 no's before she gets a yes.

[11flower]

I would be interested in opinions from musicians or singer who actually are pursuing this endeavor. It might be different looking "in" from the outside, rather than being "inside" the house and talking about it, sharing opinions from that perspective.

 

Your girlfrind should pursue *her* dreams and not listen to what discourages her. I agree that she shouldn't have to change her body shape or weight unless *she* feels better that way and wants to.

Are you sure you are not merely projecting the possilibity on her? Or , are you seeing the genres and venues that she *is* pursuing and adding up by those measures?

 

It is your friend who needs to assess what she wants to do and the price she has to pay to do it. She should not by any means do anything other than what is in her heart to do. Her heart will tell and direct her, and maybe you as her friend.

 

There will be many discouraging "voices" she will hear along the way. Only she can decide which does apply to her and her life and what does not. Everything else which doesn't apply she should throw out and not listen to, and continue to take the steps necessary to attain what she wants.

 

11Flower

[11flower]

Okay, one last thing. Your friend should get some of her singing to disc and send it out to producers, radio stations, friends, organizations, whomever. She should put together a resume or discography of who she has worked with.

 

Does she have a website with all pertinent info about her?

Is she willing to work as a background studio musician? Does she sightread? Has she ever written any tunes?

 

Has she put an ad in the paper for vocalist jobs?

 

What about her? She needs to put together a way to market herself and be willing to play with people anywhere that is [/i]acceptable. If country western is what she likes, I bet she could have a great chance at this. What about open mic. night?

Talent shows? Again, the more she gets out there, the more the chance of her being heard by someone who may hear her and want to offer an opportunity. But she shouldn't waste her life doing what she hates doing. If she loves to sing, I'd say look for people and musics she loves to sing and go from there. She can do it.

 

11Flower