Boyfriend (probably) moving away. :(

[tiredofvampires]

I know that this is the time to start discussing the future in regards to kids because I haven't pushed the issue yet. He's said several things that lead me to believe, like you said, he is a bit unsure about kids. And I'm not sure of the nuances of his position mainly because I haven't pushed yet. I've kept thinking that I'll bring it up once he's in a more stable spot financially and emotionally. But now it's looking like he might move before he gets to that spot.

 

But isn't he moving SO THAT he can get to both a more stable financial and emotional spot?

 

I was thinking in terms of his moving as being more conducive to his having that "ground" under his feet, so that you would continue to explore the conversation then, even if you start it now.

 

Also, you were saying that if he goes away, he'll be in a place where he might have triggers (his home?) for emotional issues and more insecurity, which is why you are concerned about his fidelity. So I'm a little unclear about whether this move is likely to bring him up or down -- wasn't it supposed to improve his status all around?

 

Can I feel warm inside and still feel hesitation? I wonder if after B, I can ever NOT feel hesitant about the thought of a future with someone. Is that normal? I feel like I live with the certainty that no one can actually be trusted. I think that fear might always be there...

 

Yes! I guess I made it sound like either/or, ha -- and of course it's not. But I do think the warm feeling is a good one, in terms of "seeing" yourself moving forward with a person. I'm talking about more than just an infatuated or romanticized excitation, but a core feeling of "belonging", if that makes any sense. I also see your saying more than once, "We have so much to DO together" as the kind of sentiment that marks an enduring quality in one's relationship.

 

I'm not trying to push for one thing or another (I'm cautious both ways! Giving relationships more of a chance than perhaps their due, but also when unsure, being wide awake to the potential pitfalls -- which is why I sometimes drive myself nuts and I sympathize with being torn in your situation!)...but just observing the qualities you're describing as solidly fostering, nurturing ones that don't always come easily, and not in relationships that are generally "no future in it" relationships.

 

It's very natural that after B, you would feel hesitant -- and even G, with what happened. I think there's a qualitative difference between a sense of concern that you will not be around to fill the physical gap, and whether that will make your partner emotionally drift from you...and being afraid that your partner will seek out a way to fill an existing physical gap with another person. I have had an LDR, and a very significant one (and we were 5 hours+ apart by PLANE, not car!). It wasn't as significant in terms of longevity as some of my other relationships, but it was significant in terms of what I realized about the way I handle that trust element. Granted, I was not cheated on either by him or in a serious LTR with someone else (at least to the best of my knowledge [with the exception of one, which was sort of flash-in-the-pan]), so I don't have that direct experience, to me it came down to a character issue: if he was inclined to cheat, he would. If he felt strongly enough about me that he would not want to jeopardize that in a moment of weakness, he would resist. Going through with a one-night stand when you are IN LOVE with someone you're in a serious, committed LTR with, LDR or not, would take a level of weakness that would only show up a character trait that is and will always be there. (Though I actually think cheating is a latent capacity in everyone to some degree, whether they think they have it in them or not, and I realize I'm unconventional in that belief, probably.) Or it would take a level of confusion of priorities that would speak to a character trait. Because I knew how strongly he felt about me, I was able to trust in what we had. He, on the other hand, felt threatened by everything -- the distance, my male friends, new male acquaintances, and a few other things we disagreed about the significance of. So I really think distance brings out what is already there in people -- their strengths, their weaknesses, and their fears, but I don't feel distance itself is the cause of ruination of relationships. It's more like a clarifying lens. So it clarifies the limits for both parties -- of trust as well as trustworthiness.

 

Ultimately, I wouldn't feel comfortable in a relationship if I believed the determining thing holding us together was lack of physical separation.

 

In a more general sense, if you're asking is it "normal" to feel like you can't trust anyone, I wouldn't call it normal or abnormal. If you've had a history of partners who cheated on you in various stages of relationships (and I do feel that G's cheating so early on, when things weren't "gelled", is on a different level than if he cheated at the stage B cheated at), I believe it's fairly normal to feel an inherent mistrust. It's like any experience that trains your mind to be wary of not getting hurt the same way again. It's self-protective, and that's pretty normal as a reaction. The more important question is, is it preventing you from some aspect of a healthy relationship with someone. Or is it preventing you from moving forward with a worthy risk. When I say "healthy relationship", I mean one in which you are not in a state of wondering, second-guessing, and fear, even low-grade, all the time. Because that's a lot to carry around over time.

 

On the most broad of levels, I don't think we can predict or guarantee ANYTHING in life, so every relationship entails some risk. Some unknown. I can say that there are a few (very few) I could entrust my life to, to not deceive or betray me, but even in these relationships, there have been trying issues. In romantic relationships, I see sexual fidelity in most cases as an expression of how much else is strong and bonded; so a breach of that kind of trust is really just an indicator of how one or both parties are managing the "trying issues." So I can say that in some ways, no one can be completely trusted because there are always issues that will try a relationship of any sort and we can't ever be sure about anything in life; on the other hand, I can say that within that framework, I'm using the best of my ability to gauge the character of the person I'm with and if I'm choosing as wisely as I can, I have to let go of the "what if's." And that's trust, even if not trust in an absolute (oblivious) sense.

 

I think it's more important to trust life itself. I would say that while I don't have absolute trust in any person, romantic or non...I have a greater sense of absolute trust that life will lead me to what I need to understand about a situation. I trust my teacher, life -- even though it's an extremely hardass teacher, and the lessons can be quite brutal. But I trust that if I'm following my heart, my intuition, and the best of my knowledge at any given time, the people I choose to trust as much as people can be trusted will be worth the risks and the things I learn about/from them will have been worth it.

 

I think trusting comes down to realizing that you can't control anyone, but realizing you're free to act at any time once information is revealed to you. Fear is the wish to control what can't be. So you let go of what you can't know or can't control, and that means the fear of the unknown lessens. And I think that's more healthy, even though it may be less automatic and "normal."

 

I had to sit here a minute before hitting "submit" on this, to be sure that I'm not painting a more "faithful" picture of myself and my views than is accurate, given my own insecurities and fears in life, which are significant (and given that the word "faith" for most of my life has been actually aversive to me). And I realize in writing that, that this is really the core of how I operate and what I believe, whatever the distracting surface emotions. So, submit.

[Firiel]

But isn't he moving SO THAT he can get to both a more stable financial and emotional spot?

 

I was thinking in terms of his moving as being more conducive to his having that "ground" under his feet, so that you would continue to explore the conversation then, even if you start it now.

 

Also, you were saying that if he goes away, he'll be in a place where he might have triggers (his home?) for emotional issues and more insecurity, which is why you are concerned about his fidelity. So I'm a little unclear about whether this move is likely to bring him up or down -- wasn't it supposed to improve his status all around?

 

 

I think (HOPE) the opportunities will bring him up eventually (once he gets a job and a place of his own). But I imagine that it will feel like a step backwards (living with family) until then which will likely bring him down emotionally for a while. So... yeah. Up eventually, but I imagine he'll feel like crap that it came to that for a while.

 

Yes! I guess I made it sound like either/or, ha -- and of course it's not. But I do think the warm feeling is a good one, in terms of "seeing" yourself moving forward with a person. I'm talking about more than just an infatuated or romanticized excitation, but a core feeling of "belonging", if that makes any sense. I also see your saying more than once, "We have so much to DO together" as the kind of sentiment that marks an enduring quality in one's relationship.

 

I'm not trying to push for one thing or another (I'm cautious both ways! Giving relationships more of a chance than perhaps their due, but also when unsure, being wide awake to the potential pitfalls -- which is why I sometimes drive myself nuts and I sympathize with being torn in your situation!)...but just observing the qualities you're describing as solidly fostering, nurturing ones that don't always come easily, and not in relationships that are generally "no future in it" relationships.

 

 

Yes, that makes sense. And I think that's where it gets tough-- maybe where all my conflict is coming from. I do feel that sense of belonging. I don't believe in soul mates in any sort of spiritual sense at all. But if I did, he'd be a soul mate simply because there is something so weirdly wonderful about the two of us together. B and I made sense together, and if he had been who he pretended to be, we would have been great for each other. But with G and I... there is just something so content and natural about our interactions despite the fact that no one would have ever pegged us as getting together. I think it really boils down to a lot of the things I mentioned in my first post—the mutual respect, the mutual recognition or wrong, etc. But that’s contrasted against the (obvious) practical issues of kids, this financial crap, etc. It feels like that kind of relationship (comfortable but still passionate, comforting but still challenging) is there within reach but for practical purposes (which seem so silly when one is in loooooove) might never be realized. And that sucks. He couldn’t ask me to give up the idea of children, and I could never ask him to have kids he didn’t want.

 

Going through with a one-night stand when you are IN LOVE with someone you're in a serious, committed LTR with, LDR or not, would take a level of weakness that would only show up a character trait that is and will always be there. (Though I actually think cheating is a latent capacity in everyone to some degree, whether they think they have it in them or not, and I realize I'm unconventional in that belief, probably.) Or it would take a level of confusion of priorities that would speak to a character trait. Because I knew how strongly he felt about me, I was able to trust in what we had. He, on the other hand, felt threatened by everything -- the distance, my male friends, new male acquaintances, and a few other things we disagreed about the significance of. So I really think distance brings out what is already there in people -- their strengths, their weaknesses, and their fears, but I don't feel distance itself is the cause of ruination of relationships. It's more like a clarifying lens. So it clarifies the limits for both parties -- of trust as well as trustworthiness.

 

Ultimately, I wouldn't feel comfortable in a relationship if I believed the determining thing holding us together was lack of physical separation.

 

In a more general sense, if you're asking is it "normal" to feel like you can't trust anyone, I wouldn't call it normal or abnormal. If you've had a history of partners who cheated on you in various stages of relationships (and I do feel that G's cheating so early on, when things weren't "gelled", is on a different level than if he cheated at the stage B cheated at), I believe it's fairly normal to feel an inherent mistrust. It's like any experience that trains your mind to be wary of not getting hurt the same way again. It's self-protective, and that's pretty normal as a reaction. The more important question is, is it preventing you from some aspect of a healthy relationship with someone. Or is it preventing you from moving forward with a worthy risk. When I say "healthy relationship", I mean one in which you are not in a state of wondering, second-guessing, and fear, even low-grade, all the time. Because that's a lot to carry around over time.

 

You know, I’ve come to believe that anyone can cheat as well. And I feel like maybe that’s part of the trust issue because it’s a fairly new belief to me. I’m of a mind now that it’s not perfect love or good morals that protects from infidelity, though those are factors. Real love, moral fiber, and good boundaries are the big three, I think. I was NOT planning on dating for a LONG time after B, and then G happened. I was very careful to not discuss my problems with men when B and I were struggling because I recognized what a precarious emotional situation I was in. But if I hadn’t had those boundaries, I recognize how easy it would have been to stray (at least emotionally) when my marriage was so, so painful. The fact that anyone CAN cheat is scary. Thankfully, right now, it’s not preventing me from having a healthy relationship. While I get bursts of (usually irrational) fear about G, I don’t have the low-grade fear following me around all the time.

 

On the most broad of levels, I don't think we can predict or guarantee ANYTHING in life, so every relationship entails some risk. Some unknown. I can say that there are a few (very few) I could entrust my life to, to not deceive or betray me, but even in these relationships, there have been trying issues. In romantic relationships, I see sexual fidelity in most cases as an expression of how much else is strong and bonded; so a breach of that kind of trust is really just an indicator of how one or both parties are managing the "trying issues." So I can say that in some ways, no one can be completely trusted because there are always issues that will try a relationship of any sort and we can't ever be sure about anything in life; on the other hand, I can say that within that framework, I'm using the best of my ability to gauge the character of the person I'm with and if I'm choosing as wisely as I can, I have to let go of the "what if's." And that's trust, even if not trust in an absolute (oblivious) sense.

 

That’s what I’m realizing too—that I can never guarantee anything. And that sucks. That’s where some of my fear comes from, and it would be there with anyone. I’m terrified of getting divorced again. Absolutely terrified. I saw a guy leave his wife on a TV show and basically got flashbacks—excused myself to my room and just started shaking and feeling sick and sobbed, violently and uncontrollably, for nearly at least 15 minutes. It’s not uncommon for me to get similar (smaller and more manageable) reactions upon the mention or thought of divorce. And I know there is absolutely nothing I can do to protect myself against that again. People lie and misrepresent themselves, on purpose or accidentally. I still truly believe that two people in love enough to get married can fight for a hurting marriage and heal it and make it great, but no one would ever admit, “Nah, I won’t fight for this. If it gets tough, I’m out,” even though that happens a lot. There is no way I can know if someone will truly fight for something or if they are just there until it’s inconvenient.

 

I think it's more important to trust life itself. I would say that while I don't have absolute trust in any person, romantic or non...I have a greater sense of absolute trust that life will lead me to what I need to understand about a situation. I trust my teacher, life -- even though it's an extremely hardass teacher, and the lessons can be quite brutal. But I trust that if I'm following my heart, my intuition, and the best of my knowledge at any given time, the people I choose to trust as much as people can be trusted will be worth the risks and the things I learn about/from them will have been worth it.

 

I think trusting comes down to realizing that you can't control anyone, but realizing you're free to act at any time once information is revealed to you. Fear is the wish to control what can't be. So you let go of what you can't know or can't control, and that means the fear of the unknown lessens. And I think that's more healthy, even though it may be less automatic and "normal."

 

I had to sit here a minute before hitting "submit" on this, to be sure that I'm not painting a more "faithful" picture of myself and my views than is accurate, given my own insecurities and fears in life, which are significant (and given that the word "faith" for most of my life has been actually aversive to me). And I realize in writing that, that this is really the core of how I operate and what I believe, whatever the distracting surface emotions. So, submit.

 

Trust life, eh? Sure doesn’t sound easy! Anyway, I like the idea of realizing you can’t control anyone. That’s something that I’ve tried to live according to for a while now. What’s hard is the “letting go” part. Especially when it affects me. It’s easy to philosophically say that I can’t control anyone’s faithfulness or truthfulness. It’s clearly true. It’s a lot harder when that inability to control (or even really influence) a situation leads to something that has completely shattered me and left me crumpled and dying on the floor.

[pixie1]

My personal advice is stay where you are. DO NOT MOVE WITH HIM. I have been dating my boyfriend for almost four years now and I made the mistake of moving in July 2013. I had the exact same situation. My bf graduated university and couldn't find work in our area and moved 5 hours away to find a job. I like you had a job I was happy with in that location. I live away from him for 6 months and did the "long distance thing". It was fine at first but then he never came to visit me it was me always doing it. We too rarely fought before all these changes occurred.I became very bitter and angry but then made the dumb decision of moving.

 

I knew he was on the fence/leaning towards having no kids but I still made the mistake moving in with him. I will tell you at almost a year later I regret this big time. We are at each others throats, bitter and I am the one getting screwed because he was here longer then me and has friend's in this new place and I don't. Also, he is similar to your boyfriend when it comes to drinking and spending. I now see it with my own eyes. I never thought it was as bad as it actually is. It has really hurt us.This was the man I was hoping to spend the rest of my life with but now I am having that hugest wake up call.Plus, the one night stand thing. I am glad you can trust him after that but let me tell you distance can either make or break your trust with him. If you have and doubt at all he will do it again you are probably right.

 

I really hate to be the debbie downer. However, from my experience I would say back away. There are more cons here then I'm comfortable with and they replicate my situation to a T. You are young and can do whatever you like but just make sure your happiness is put first ALWAYS. At the end of the day you are your biggest cheerleader. You can attempt the distance if you like to try and it might be great. I am just telling you my experience. I hope if you do choose that path that it works out for you. Please discuss your future in huge detail before you move with him. I look back now and saw a year go by of me finding out that he doesn't agree with marriage and kids which I value. I don't believe it will ever change.People don't change unless they feel like it.

 

Good luck and I hope whatever you choose works out for you!