When you KNOW you are UGLY.

[rachopin77]

THIS is the kind of answer I was hoping to see.

Dougie D and Johnny 15 focus on #5 and that last paragraph.

 

Glad I could help! Often, if it's too hard to change your thinking, it helps to change the way you act first and then the thoughts will follow. Another thing that's helpful with confidence is talking to strangers. Elevators are a great place for this because you've got a pretty short amount of time, so you've got an automatic out if things are a little awkward. You might be in the elevator with someone and see they've got a bunch of stuff precariously balanced in their arms. Saying something as simple as a joking "The struggle is real, huh?" often makes the other person suddenly open up to you, and they usually laugh and come back with some other lighthearted stuff. If you've got time, you could even offer to help them with whatever they're carrying, and you never know, you might discover you've got a common interest. Doing things like that will make you think "Well, dang, I just had some pleasant banter with a stranger, and it didn't feel awkward at all. I must not be as awkward as I thought I was."

 

I find confident people will think of something and just say it, not really mulling it over in their head a bunch and psyching themselves out. Many shy or self conscious people might get the urge to say something, but they start thinking "hmmmm what if the other person doesn't respond? what if they don't laugh? What if it's awkward?" And then they miss the chance or the timing is weird. I once had a class where every single day I would find a way to jokingly ask the professor if we could have an ice cream party. Something would come into my head and I would just say it then, and other people in the class would find it funny because the timing was good. Timing is a huge factor in seeming confident or funny.

[rachopin77]

Try to find a hobby or some kind of pastime where you can meet other people with similar interests or the people who have that interest can get really enthusiastic about it. For example, my parents, who have never had trouble finding friends in places we've lived, found it very hard to meet people they genuinely liked and clicked with where they live now. But then my dad got a can am (motorcycle with two wheels in front and one in back), and they started going to things for motorcycles and bikes, such as fundraising rides, cancer awareness rides, etc. Now they've met quite a few people they really like, just from having that one shared interest. And people are always asking them about the type of bike they have and it opens up a lot of conversation. It doesn't have to be some really complicated hobby, just something that gives you opportunities to meet others with that same interest. You will always have that particular thing to talk about, but you can also branch out and talk about other things as well, possibly finding more common ground. And its always good to start relationships out as friends.

 

Or you could be a regular somewhere like at a cafe or restaurant. When you're a regular somewhere, or people see you a lot, there are more opportunities to strike up conversation with other regulars. Then just be sure to remember people's names and make an effort to acknowledge them when you see them.

 

Bars and clubs aren't good places to meet people because often the people there are focusing less on actual compatibility and shared interests, and more on how attracted they are to someone at first glance.

[rachopin77]

I obviously got rejected? Why? Then I see some other guy that is better looking, more built, and she seems to be "all over him".

 

I can be confident but it's hard when I'm competing with other confident men. If they are better looking, it just SEEMS like they have the upperhand.

 

This is what shows you actually aren't confident in yourself. True confidence is something that stems from the person just being very sure of who they are, without feeling the need to see how they measure up to others. Don't think of it as a competition. Just think of what you have to offer and your own qualities. You automatically think that other guys who are better looking have an upper hand, but truly confident guys don't really think that way.

[rachopin77]

Attraction doesn't necessarily stem from physical appearance. There are plenty of guys I would see and think "He's a really good looking guy" but that doesn't mean I'd automatically be all over him if he showed an interest. Just like I might meet a guy who's not particularly good looking, but there's something else about him that makes me really love to be around him or gives him that extra spark.

 

It just so happens that a lot of guys who are really good looking are confident in themselves.

[Slimpee]

Dougie, I looked at your OK Cupid profile and I have a few thoughts i'll PM you but I must say, you're not a super ugly guy. I mean, you could lose a few lbs but if i saw you at a bar I wouldn't think that you're abnormally unattractive or anything.

 

As we've told you time and time again it's about the deep seated issues that you seem to be unwilling to work on. And change takes uncomfortable work...it's very much worth it, though

[Cognitive_Canine]

You know you are ugly when people:

 

1. Say "I want to help you"

 

2. Say "You are a project"

 

3. Say "Dress better"

 

4. Say "You look better with a beard"

 

5. Say "You are are out of her league"

 

6. Say "It's not about looks"

 

...

Disagree or NOt?!

 

You can be physcally gifted yet still unattractive if you don't take care of yourself, wear your hair in a flattering matter, dress flatteringly, or act obnoxious.

 

A lot of the time, attractiveness has little to do with whether you won the genetic lottery and a lot more to do with if you know how to make it work.

 

I don't look that pretty when I wake up in the morning and my hair is all messed up. I have to scrub, moisterize, exfoliate, condition, volumize, curl, pick, shade, brush, spray, and all that good stuff. Once I do my morning routine, I think I look mighty fine though. I'm not even talking about makeup.

[Dougie_D]

I'm still trying to find out why everyone is telling me stay away from bars? The same girl that I meet at the bar could be the same girl I would meet at a meetup group, coffee house, etc... right?

[Cognitive_Canine]

I'm still trying to find out why everyone is telling me stay away from bars? The same girl that I meet at the bar could be the same girl I would meet at a meetup group, coffee house, etc... right?

 

Have you ever met a girl at a bar?

 

I'd consider myself fairly attractive but I've never met a guy at a bar unless introduced by a friend or it was a slow night and it was the bartender (does that even count? They probably just wanted a good tip)

 

If it hasn't worked for you in the past, assume it won't in the future.

[Blue Spiral]

If it hasn't worked for you in the past, assume it won't in the future.

 

Is that really good advice in this situation? By that logic, nothing he's tried has worked, so nothing will work in the future. That would rule out a ton of possible approaches.

[Slimpee]

I'm still trying to find out why everyone is telling me stay away from bars? The same girl that I meet at the bar could be the same girl I would meet at a meetup group, coffee house, etc... right?

 

Bars come w/ inherent pressure and defenses automatically put up. Woman are used to being hit on at bars so they automatically assume that a guy talking to them is hitting on them. Conversely, there's pressure on guys to be "on" ie funny, confident, etc. so some guys try to put on an act. Yes, it's very possible to meet "the one" at a bar (my buddy did), but in my opinion, it's not as conducive to meeting people to actually date.

 

If you meet women while volunteering, attending cooking/fitness classes, at meetups for a specific hobby, etc., those same assumptions aren't as strong. Plus, you already have something in common you can use to break the ice. Much less pressure, in my opinion.

 

Also, people in their late-20s and older tend to become frustrated w/ the bar scene.

[Dougie_D]

I actually do better at bars. Yes, that's where I have met the majority of girls. And actually it's where I have been introduced, etc... from other people I know. It's an extremely social environment. Whenever I'm in group setting we most likely will go get a drink somewhere.

 

My last rant about a girl was a girl that I met at a show actually. But it's a club/venue/bar all in one. I just had a good conversation but later down the line, I realized she just considered me a friend.

[Slimpee]

I actually do better at bars. Yes, that's where I have met the majority of girls. And actually it's where I have been introduced, etc... from other people I know. It's an extremely social environment. Whenever I'm in group setting we most likely will go get a drink somewhere.

 

My last rant about a girl was a girl that I met at a show actually. But it's a club/venue/bar all in one. I just had a good conversation but later down the line, I realized she just considered me a friend.

 

Haha dude, if it were working you wouldn't have to start all of these threads!

 

Why are you so resistant to change?

[Cognitive_Canine]

Is that really good advice in this situation? By that logic, nothing he's tried has worked, so nothing will work in the future. That would rule out a ton of possible approaches.

 

If he has truly tried everything, something will work though.

 

However, I'm assuming that what he has tried is a narrow perspective of what could be tried.

[blueidealist24]

I'm still trying to find out why everyone is telling me stay away from bars? The same girl that I meet at the bar could be the same girl I would meet at a meetup group, coffee house, etc... right?

 

Not necessarily.. not to knock people who go to bars a lot as I have been one, but a lot of people who go to bars are shallow and want the 10/10 guy in looks, like I think I mentioned above. Not to mention, they're drunk (usually). They might not be so shallow sober, but most people lose a lot of their depth after they get drunk (except the occasional person I've met who goes on philosophical rants lol).

[memento]

Dougie_D , PM me your profile

[jonny15]

If you aren't qualified for any job, how are you going to get qualified without going to some sort of school or training?

 

There are many vocational training programs to help you. You don't have to be great at academics to have a job.

 

The only thing i'm probably qualified to do is stock stuff at Wal-Mart.

 

I also wouldn't have the money to go school.

[Dougie_D]

How often do people hook up/meet at bars vs all other places you guys have talked about?

 

There's a difference of MEETING people and trying to score a date.

 

If you guys can give me better examples, I'll look into it for sure. I just have doubts that it's gonna be different. I feel like those places are places where people just want to meet new people and maybe have a laugh or so because the demographic is so different. Plus there's always some type of "host". It can feel like a class too. I'm usually not into that or even a field trip type vibe. It's like I lose my freedom.

 

I always went away from the group and did my own thing. I went on a major highschool field trip with one of my classes. We went to Germany! Of course, i'm trying to flirt up the "host" because she was 24 at the time and I was 17? Yeah... I then it even got worse. We ended up visiting some sort of All girl magnet school which was Music Study. haha! So of course, we are split up and I'm trying to flirt with the highschool host. Then I get bored and start snooping around the campus. I end up talking with the guitar teacher and we start jamming! That was fun. It sucked though..because this was before the internet really, and people had "pen pals". One of the girls gave me her address but she didn't write good english or something. I ended up writing but she either never replied or it went to someone else! haha!

 

I'm not scared to approaching women. I think I come off too eager maybe and maybe I come off arragant.

[jonny15]

3.Touch people. Not in a creepy way, but like maybe a hand on a shoulder or an arm as they say something..

 

Uhhhh. No thanx.

 

I'm not gonna go around touching women.

 

There is too much risk in them getting offened by me doing that.

[memento]

Dougie_D! Your biggest problem is whats written on your profile dude!

[Thorshammer]

My cousin has an under-bite, funny shape head, balding, pot belly, pointy big nose- everytime i see him talk to a girl, he gets rejected. But he has had beautiful woman chasing him forever. He might not be good at cold approaching, where they will judge him based on looks, but once a friend introduces a friend to him, he gets them. He is very funny, very masculine, and an exceptional leader- very rarely will you take away his attention in a group.

[rachopin77]

Uhhhh. No thanx.

 

I'm not gonna go around touching women.

 

There is too much risk in them getting offened by me doing that.

 

No you're missing the way I mean. Not in a groping way or anything. And it's gotta be really quick and platonic, no lingering caresses.

 

Think president who is saying hello to someone. They very frequently put a hand on a shoulder or something as they smile and shake their hand. Like keep it in the shoulder area or the arm if its someone you don't know really well. And don't grab hands much because holding someone's hand has a romantic connotation. But people subconsciously are more likely to find someone attractive or confident if that person touches them.

 

I'm a woman and that's just what I've always thought and known other females to think. You don't have to do it though.

[jonny15]

No you're missing the way I mean. Not in a groping way or anything. And it's gotta be really quick and platonic, no lingering caresses.

 

Think president who is saying hello to someone. They very frequently put a hand on a shoulder or something as they smile and shake their hand. Like keep it in the shoulder area or the arm if its someone you don't know really well. And don't grab hands much because holding someone's hand has a romantic connotation. But people subconsciously are more likely to find someone attractive or confident if that person touches them.

 

I'm a woman and that's just what I've always thought and known other females to think. You don't have to do it though.

 

Sorry, but i'm not gonna take a risk like that.

 

I would never just put my hand on a womans shoulder.

 

That could be considered harrasement.

 

They wouldn't want someone like me touching them.

[nutbrownhare]

My cousin has an under-bite, funny shape head, balding, pot belly, pointy big nose- everytime i see him talk to a girl, he gets rejected. But he has had beautiful woman chasing him forever. He might not be good at cold approaching, where they will judge him based on looks, but once a friend introduces a friend to him, he gets them. He is very funny, very masculine, and an exceptional leader- very rarely will you take away his attention in a group.

Yep - in the past I've been attracted to several guys who, if you saw them in a photo, you'd describe as being on the ugly side of plain. But the chemistry was right; they were warm, funny, compassionate, confident... all the rest. Only problem is, they're always married to really nice women...

[Blue Spiral]

Sorry, but i'm not gonna take a risk like that.

 

I would never just put my hand on a womans shoulder.

 

That could be considered harrasement.

 

They wouldn't want someone like me touching them.

 

Wise man. Alpha male types can get away with certain "improper" things--sometimes, anyway--but the rest of us need to be much more careful.

[buddha55]

forearm is a really safe place to touch. people love small touches, and also hearing their own name.