I need to apologize...I think

[Guitarguy_82]

Hi guys,

 

I posted about a week ago about a female friend of mine and a fight that we got into (she was being dumb and said something that really upset me. I was frustrated and tired after an extremely difficult week), a fight that resulted in me saying some harsh words and suggesting that we go our separate ways. Basically I regret what I said and I've been having several doubts about what to do next.

 

The consensus from my family and friends is that I need to apologize for what I said. It was very hurtful and was said in such anger that when I looked back at it I was shocked that I said it. I know I should apologize.

 

Then when I spoke with my dad and one of my good guy friends, they both asked me this: do you want to be with this girl? Well honestly, no. We very briefly dated and after the course of the next several years kept up the cat and mouse game of having feelings for each other without actually dating. We cared about each other but never really clicked on the same level. Really didn't have much in common, didn't have many of the same opinions, and there was always underlying tension. I think more than anything we both hung around because she and I were both single for so long and just got comfortable being "close". I could see dating her, but that's about it...and even that is a stretch. I see myself having a family with someone else down the road (hopefully anyway).

 

Back to point, I've been wracking my brain around how to apologize. Even if she and I never talk again, I don't want my hurtful angry words to be the last thing I said to her. This is a woman I've known for almost 5 years....I should have had more composure and patience to wait out the storm and then talk to her honestly rather than exploding like I did. I know I screwed up.

 

Here's the twist though: she's the type of person that would always say "If you don't want to talk, just say so, and I'll walk away". She is probably glad we aren't talking, since she's so easy to drop me by basically giving me the option of ending things upfront (something she's done on numerous occasions).

 

So now my thinking is, OK, I have this great apology planned out, but what will be the point? To make myself feel better? To save our friendship? I'm under the assumption that she could really care less.

 

When I lashed out at her, it was me putting my verbal foot down after years of basically being her ego-stroker and the "guy she talks to and goes out with once every two weeks" (I moved away for work 7 months ago, I haven't seen her since then. All of this is long distance right now). She is very selfish and stubborn and has always had bad relationships. She is also extremely religious (she is Mexican Catholic) and pours her life into church to distract herself from her daily life. From what she's told me, she has never been in a long-term, loving relationship.

 

I want to do the right thing, but my gut tells me that when I come back and apologize (as logical and good-hearted and non-accusatory as I have written it) she will just use it as leverage and gain that cocky presence of having the "upper-hand" that she just loves and thrives on (she is a big control freak too).

 

Logic tells me that I should just move on. Emotion tells me I want her back as my friend and this apology needs to be given regardless of how she views me afterward. I don't care if I seem "weak" to her. I don't really care if we never talk again....but I definitely do not want those hurtful words I said to be the last thing I said to her. I'm trying to fix something I broke.

 

I'm tired of worrying about this. I'm tired of that sinking feeling. I want my friend back, but perhaps she was never the friend I really needed....she just happened to be there for almost 5 years.

 

How should I go about this? Phone call? Send the email apology? Do nothing? I await your counsel...

[uaes]

What disturbs me about this message is that you have stated all of her flaws but none of yours. What exactly were the "hurtful words" you said? Sugarcoating your actions while caliing her a control freak, absorbed in church, and stubborn seems very hypocritical to me, as a woman at least. It seems that important parts of the story *specifically your role* are really being left out.

 

I have been in this kind of situation with men; and it may be that you two are not compatible in the long run, but it seems to me that you are in as much fault in the situation as she is. You whine that you have been her "friend" only but it seems that she has served as your friend as well. And if this is the case, who is using who as a crutch? If she is willing to let you go; it seems to me that it is you that cannot resist having that emotional dependency on her. It is *you* that does not want to let go of the friendship.

 

My theory is that men really do not have enough friends they can talk to about things so they continually annoy the same woman when starved for feminine attention. My advice; try to foster friendships with other women and men that you can talk to about things. Do not depend on one woman as your network of emotional support; most especially if you dont, as you say see yourself "married" to her. Your male friends, they also love you and are a source of support; do things with them; there are other ways you can contribute to the world without her forgiveness.

 

I have had more than one guy continually come back to me for friendship after stating clearly that I am ok with ending the friendship. Sometimes I really do believe men are the weaker sex!

 

Also, it seems doubtful that you are being totally clear=headed as to marrying *someone else down the road*. Have you ever dated someone that you know has the qualities you are looking for in marriage. Too many guys over-romanticize and think that some idyllic, perfect, non-stubborn woman is going to come around way down the road that will make everything EASY. It may be that THIS is not the girl for you, but you cannot really bank on exactly what is going to happen in the future; so talking about it disparagingly with her, as a way of pointing out her flaws (versus what you imagine in a future wife) is sort of nonsense. Everyone has flaws and defects; and it is likely that your future wife will as well. Aside from this, you dont know who this woman you will be, and you should treat everyone you know NOW with the love and respect they deserve; whether or not you see anything leading anywhere.

 

That said, sometimes the most loving and respectful thing you can do is to let people go. An inability to do so indicates a weakness. Perhaps her *stubborness* is a result of having learned some hard lessons about life that you have not yet learned: it is not always necessary to have everyone as an eternal friend. Some people were meant to be blocks on the road; it does not mean they are worth LESS as human being, simply that their time in your life is over. At the end of the day, she may forgive what you said eventually internally, and there is no reason to air out all grievances.

 

Of course, since I have no idea what kind of insult you hurled at her; it is much harder to really understand the situation. But I've done my best in replying.

[Guitarguy_82]

Thanks for the candid reply, and yes indeed I left out my flaws. I never said I was perfect or had all the answers as to what I want. I'm well aware that I have issues with depression and have had issues with co-dependency before.

 

This particular girl I met when I had just come out of an almost 4 year relationship with a girl I was engaged to. She and I were college sweethearts and each others first loves. That engagement ended and I was still very young and learning about myself and what I wanted.

 

I don't agree that I was using her as a crutch. We both agreed to spend time together on the rare occasions that we went out...and that was mostly at a time when I had just lost a lot of friends (due to the ending of the previous engagement) and she happened to fill the role of friend and possible romantic interest. I still had not met a lot of my guy friends at the time.

 

In general I don't have many friends & especially since moving away, that has changed, and I'm doing my best to find friends out here in a new city.

 

As for the hurtful words, I called her a bad christian, I told her that a friendship was a two-way street and that I was on a different highway, I told her that she would never understand what it would mean to find a true friend, and I told her I was tired of her temper tantrums (she frequently would get mad, then we wouldn't talk, then she'd come back and say "OK I'm done being mad, we can talk now").

 

If she is willing to let you go; it seems to me that it is you that cannot resist having that emotional dependency on her. It is *you* that does not want to let go of the friendship.

 

I'm willing to let the friendship go, I know that at some point it was going to be inevitable once I got into a committed relationship. My issue is that I didn't want it to end like that.

 

My advice; try to foster friendships with other women and men that you can talk to about things. Do not depend on one woman as your network of emotional support; most especially if you dont, as you say see yourself "married" to her.

 

I do have other female friends in which we have great dialogues and great back and forth banter. Even one friend in which we have been physical and still to this day are really good friends (this is mostly because we have so much in common and have the same attitude toward things).

As for my male friends I have a few back home and a few here in the city. It's a slow progression but I'm working on it.

 

I have had more than one guy continually come back to me for friendship after stating clearly that I am ok with ending the friendship. Sometimes I really do believe men are the weaker sex!

I think in today's society women are more empowered, which is a good thing for sure, but I think also men tend to think more logically land try to "fix" things that might not be fixable. Hence you get guys, such as myself, that try to correct a situation with a female that really has no solution. In that regard I should chalk it up as a reason to just walk away.

 

Also, it seems doubtful that you are being totally clear=headed as to marrying *someone else down the road*. Have you ever dated someone that you know has the qualities you are looking for in marriage. Too many guys over-romanticize and think that some idyllic, perfect, non-stubborn woman is going to come around way down the road that will make everything EASY.

 

I don't think this whatsoever. I am fully aware that I will have to work hard at a relationship and at a future marriage with whomever it ends up being. I want kids and want a family someday. I want a partner that is open minded and will work with me so that we can create the best environment for our future offspring. I dated someone for almost 4 years and that taught me some of the things that I will look for in a future partner. Obviously I still have much to learn and discover. I'm well aware that its not going to be EASY as you say. Whoever thinks that is flat out dumb.

 

Everyone has flaws and defects; and it is likely that your future wife will as well. Aside from this, you dont know who this woman you will be, and you should treat everyone you know NOW with the love and respect they deserve; whether or not you see anything leading anywhere.

 

I agree 100%. And as for the ex-friend in question, I don't know how she will turn out, or how she would react if I did apologize, but I should have been patient enough to not explode at her and take her "insult" as a joke. I treat all of my other friends with the utmost respect. She is the one person that always has me on eggshells. Everyone else I am able to have free and easy conversations with and its never an issue.

 

Also, for a bit more context, the insult (although to her it was a joke) that she gave me was that I wouldn't be a good dad. I take great pride in the fact that I look forward to being a father someday. I am the oldest of 5 siblings and have helped raise my younger brothers and sisters....so I know that I will do a damn good job.

 

Perhaps her *stubborness* is a result of having learned some hard lessons about life that you have not yet learned: it is not always necessary to have everyone as an eternal friend. Some people were meant to be blocks on the road; it does not mean they are worth LESS as human being, simply that their time in your life is over. At the end of the day, she may forgive what you said eventually internally, and there is no reason to air out all grievances.

 

She has told me flat out before that she does not like people. She does not have many friends either. Keep in mind this is a deeply religious girl who leads a group of young people in how to be better Christians. Seems just a tad hypocritical to me....but I digress.

 

Yes I know that most friends are temporary. People change and grow apart, I get that. You learn your lesson and move on.

 

I tend to be the peace-maker in my family. I grew up with family members fighting and yelling all the time, so I tend not to get mad, I'd rather try to fix things. That being said, when someone tries to fight with me, I usually explode if I'm pushed to my limits. That's how I work. I realize it's not the mature thing, and that is something I myself need to work on.

 

Either way, at the end of the day, I just want to do the right thing.

 

I know that in time if I just walk away I will get over it. I've had to bite the bullet and walk away before from long-term relationships that I didn't want to. I know how this works.

 

I just can't help but feel that I could have done it better in this particular instance. If she and I never talk again, then that's how it is.

 

So the question remains, is an apology even necessary? She could be happy as a bumblebee and laughing her ass off that I blew up at her. I have no way of knowing. I don't even know how she responded to my initial outburst (I blocked her number and her FB after sending it....which I now realize was the wrong thing to do, and have since unblocked, but not contacted since) if she responded at all....

[uaes]

This is the part that stands out to me:

 

"I don't agree that I was using her as a crutch. We both agreed to spend time together on the rare occasions that we went out...and that was mostly at a time when I had just lost a lot of friends (due to the ending of the previous engagement) and she happened to fill the role of friend and possible romantic interest. I still had not met a lot of my guy friends at the time."

 

You say that you were not using her as a crutch, yet also say you had at the time lost a lot of friends AND the end of an engagement. Out of the entire conversation, this is what stands out THE MOST to me. Could it be that at the time you were not *ready* for a mutually beneficial friendship, and used her as a rebound?

 

I am not saying that you are the worst person in the world; but to just be aware that you may have *used* someone as an emotional crutch, whether or not you have realized it. This is what stands out to me about the conversation. If there is anything I would apologize for is the fact that you may have overloaded her with problems more than you think. Yet you accuse her of having had no long-term relationships or friendships or anything. Well, it seems she has had a pretty long-term friendship with you.

 

I notice a lot of guys just seem to offhand state a woman as *crazy* which sometimes is and sometimes isn't the case. In some cases people react in crazy ways to our mixed messages and offbeat behavior. It may seem, since she is the tempermental type, that she is unstable and impossible to have a relationship with. Or it may also be that you two did not meet under the best of circumstances and you used her as an emotional crutch; or you were not seeing clearly at the time and got involved in a friendship you wouldn't have otherwise. Perhaps the other, better more stable friendships you made were made at a time where YOU WERE MORE STABLE.

 

To me this is the key thing you are not seeing. What is actually kind of funny is I am going through something similar with someone now, and I also have had decent long-term relationships, a good network of friends and family that love me and I love them. But with this particular person I am tired of beign used as an emotional crutch; especially given that I do not see it as a good friendship to engage in if I am to focus on my own personal growth.

 

This is not selfish nor *uncaring* nor does it mean she doesnt care about you at all, but it is the ability to realize there is no need to keep trying to mend something that is just very difficult to fix, and the understanding that at the end of the day it is not your obligation to apologize *especially since you don't seem to understand yet what you did wrong*. However, if you do apologize, I would do some hard thinking about what role you contributed to the situation. My view is that your flaw does not consist of just calling her a "bad christian". I do not see that as the worst insult: what I see wrong is that you seem to have really used her as an emotional crutch at a time when you were lonely; and now that her role has been fulfilled, you are ready to move on. This is really a horrible way to act in friendships or in dating; but if you ACKNOWLEDGE the situation for what it was, you can allow her to move on without being hurt by her *not caring*.

 

Good luck with everything.

[Guitarguy_82]

I agree with most of this...except the whole crutch part. She was the one to first start talking to me. She was always the one to call me and text me in the middle of the night. RARELY did I initiate the conversation with her. I knew very early on that I would never love her the way I had loved the girl I was engaged to.

 

Did it grow over time? Absolutely. Did I get attached the more we talked? Obviously.

 

As friends, yes, we did talk about things going on in our lives and what was bothering us about some other situation. I always tried to keep things light-hearted. Anytime I would say something funny, she'd usually just dismiss it or ignore it. That was my perspective.

 

It was never a situation where I was like "Oh wow, here's this new girl, I don't have a lot of friends, so I will now latch on to her and USE her as my crutch because my self-confidence is low". That never happened. In all fairness, our "friendship" really shouldn't have existed because at the time I didn't know what I wanted out of a friend. Things just "kept going" because we were living close and worked together and happened to be in each others lives.

 

Could it be that at the time you were not *ready* for a mutually beneficial friendship, and used her as a rebound?

 

I definitely was not ready to have a female back in my life at the time. Never at one point did I see her as a rebound or think that I'd be taking advantage of her to get over my ex.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I agree with what you're saying in the regard that I should just move on and that maybe she and I were never a good match as friends....but please don't imply that I was actively seeking to use her as emotional support. That was not my intention. I have my family for that.

 

My view is that your flaw does not consist of just calling her a "bad christian". I do not see that as the worst insult: what I see wrong is that you seem to have really used her as an emotional crutch at a time when you were lonely; and now that her role has been fulfilled, you are ready to move on. This is really a horrible way to act in friendships or in dating; but if you ACKNOWLEDGE the situation for what it was, you can allow her to move on without being hurt by her *not caring*.

 

That's the thing! I never wanted our "friendship" to end! Yes she can be a handful, and yes she can be needy, but I should have had the presence of mind to take it for what it was and be OK with things. I don't like losing friends over a dumb fight.

 

At the end of the day, I'm here and she's back in Texas...along with all my other friends and family. I am trying to build a network of "my" people to hang with out here in Georgia and its something new to me to be so separated from things that I cherish back home. Needless to say its very frustrating for me at times.

 

I want to go back home but I also enjoy things here...when I do go back home (if I ever get the chance), I hate to think that I'll be down yet another friend.

 

I'm tired of saying goodbye to people.

[uaes]

I am not saying you *intentionally* used her as a crutch; you are being really defensive. I am saying you could have done it without realizing it.

 

Try to think harder about how you met and how you acted; and maybe new things will come to light in time.

 

Until you understand *your* role in the situation I wouldn't bother apologizing. Up to now all you've said is that you feel bad about calling her a bad christian. If there is really nothing else you have to apologize for in FIVE years of friendship, and you really believe you haven't done anything wrong, dont bother apologizing. It will really come accross as somewhat selfish.

 

Good luck.

[Guitarguy_82]

Ok I'll admit it could have been sub-consciously going on. I can't ignore that possibility. At the end of the day if someone sat down and psycho-analyzed me, that very well may be the diagnosis. And I don't mean to be defensive, especially on this board where so many people have helped me in the past. I'm simply trying to clarify.

 

Either way, I've apologized many many many times during the course of our friendship. We've fought before, made up, continued along, and rinse and repeat. We both can be temperamental, and more often than not, as I mentioned, I always try to fix it.

 

Friends don't always agree, I get that, but my philosophy is that at least we can agree to disagree. Her mindset was "I'm always right, give me attention and tell me how much you care about me" or if (on the RARE occasion) she did agree with me, it would always be a passive acknowledgement. As if she didn't want to give me the satisfaction of actually admitting that I was right about a particular situation. Her reply would be "I guess", if she actually agreed.

 

My biggest fault, which I freely admit, was that I put up with it in the first place. I never laid out the ground plans of how I wanted to be treated as a friend, which is something that I should have done at the beginning.

 

I realize I sound like I'm going in circles, which I tend to do a lot, but overall I must say I agree with you.

 

Even if I write the most perfect apology, you are right....to her it could come off as selfish. My logical engineer brain tells me to just walk away. She will get over it. I will get over it. My heart says "freaking go after her and make things right you idiot"

[uaes]

Do you guys have fun together?

 

It might seem like a dumb question but I think it is very important. As I said I recently had a similar situation with a male friend of mine; who I thought I was very attracted to at some points, but at other times I wasn't at all. He also flat out told me he did not see me in his future, etc. I have no problem with that but he persisted and persisted on continuing the friendship, which I frankly was no longer interested in. to be honest, I think we were never actually "natural" friends. Natural friends, you meet through work, activities, at times in your life where you had fun. You have at least one awesome memory with them (like the *remember that time in college* type of memories). Or you share a sport or a passion or a night out or something that draws you closer.

 

Unnatural, co-dependent friendhsips consist of you whining to each other about problems or him whining to you about your problems without a lot of opportunity for fun, engagement, going to movies, being excited about other things. THis was the kind of whiny, annoying friendship I had with this guy, it wasn't a fun-filled, joyous interaction; it was a whiny, co-dependent friendship. Once the friends with benefits ran out and I was subjected to trying to connect with him on a personal level, it really failed multiple times. He didn't like my sense of humor (which other people do like), found me overly sarcastic, said I picked on him and his flaws; in reality it was impossible for us to laugh together for some reason; his sense of humor didn't mesh too well with mine; so I found it impossible to not revert to more serious subjects, causing the relationship to SEEM more deep and serious than it actually was.

 

All great friendships and great love have a serious dose of humor, not everything should *feel* deep. I dont know if this makes sense.

 

The funny thing is that he thinks I am whiny and co-dependent but I am actually not like this with everyone; it was just the nature of the friendship itself; it was a friendship that served for a little while, but did not evolve into something greater; more fun; more interesting; more anything.

 

Sometimes that just happens. In these cases it is better to walk away.

[Stay_home]

It seems like you cause just as much damage in this chaotic whatevership as she does. Apologize to each other and be homies again.

[uaes]

Also i noted something else in your whole situation when you commented "I knew from the beginning I would never love her the way I loved my fiancee"

 

Rather harsh isn't it to say something like that of your friend? And also a very non-platonic thing to say about a FRIEND. There is no need to evaluate love with regards to a friendship at all, much less insist that you are not in love with someone. (which means she was clearly not a friend to you, but more of a dating option that didnt pan out or girl you were not that into that just kept 'insisting' on pursuing you).

 

While it is fine to not be attracted to certain people, and its definitely normal and understandable not to fall in love with everyone you date, it is certainly unfair to use up their time, insist on a friendship, and wear them down when you're not that into it. It is also kind of mean to rub it in their face that you're not in love.

 

Also, just because you don't love her doesn't mean other people won't. I don't expect the guys I've friend-zoned to remain eternal friends to me, I don't see why you shouldn't let her walk off if she wants.

 

There is actually also the possibility that you are in love but dont want to admit it because she's difficult; but of course I've discarded that possibility because you know better about your own preferences in people than I do.

[Guitarguy_82]

Do you guys have fun together?

 

Good question. Our time together when we actually hung out consisted of maybe going out for dinner and drinks or just meeting up for a movie. We never did anything more than that. There was talk once of visiting a museum together (since we both enjoyed our local museum) but that never materialized.

 

Was it fun? I suppose. It was more just "something to do" that weekend. A few times we had a great time, other times it was very mediocre. I don't think I ever walked away after one of our "dates" thinking "my goodness she's so amazing I can't wait to hang out with her again".

 

Rather harsh isn't it to say something like that of your friend? And also a very non-platonic thing to say about a FRIEND.

 

We did date at the beginning, and then I realized it would never move beyond that. Hence the cat and mouse courtship just kind of kept going.

 

If this had happened today and I met a girl like this, there's no doubt I would have ended things once I saw how incompatible we are.

 

Also, just because you don't love her doesn't mean other people won't.

 

I really don't care if she finds someone else. To be honest, I wish that guy a lot of luck! He's going to need it. Also keep in mind this is a woman who at one point in time was considering becoming a nun.

 

All great friendships and great love have a serious dose of humor, not everything should *feel* deep. I dont know if this makes sense.

 

This is a good point. Every single one of my "good friends" I am able to have great conversations with and laugh about anything we are talking about. With her, if I talk about how I'm excited to go to some comic book store (or insert whatever "nerd" activity here) she is the type of person that will respond with "that sounds dumb" or she will start laughing in an extremely annoying fashion and then ask me "oh wow are you actually serious?".

 

She has tried to share her version of humor with me and honestly its just not that great. I don't know about you guys, but if someone jokes that you will be a bad parent, how is that funny?

 

I talked to my mom about this again and she mentioned to me that this is the type of person that will more than likely use any apology I give her and say "Ah-ha! Look! I have him back! Look how easily he came back to me!"

 

And after knowing this girl for 5 years, I know this is how she will react. To her its a game. Merely something to occupy her time. She loves the attention.

 

I then talked to my good friend last night about it and even he was surprised when I said that she made a joke about me being a bad father.

 

Anyway, I'm tired of wondering about it.

 

Should I have said my "farewell" text in a different way? Absolutely. I should not have exploded.

 

Did I have any right to call her a bad Christian? Not at all. I have no room to speak. I'm not Christian, but I shouldn't make comments like that.

 

Am I going to apologize? Well its already been a week. There's been points in our "Friendship" where we don't talk for months...so I just don't know anymore.

 

She's not the type of person I want in my life...even as a "Friend". I've made good friends out here and still have a few friends back home. These friends actually support me 100% when I tell them I'm doing activity XYZ or going to NerdCon 2013 or whatever. To them its cool and its who I am. To her its dorky and just another reason for her to stick her nose up to things that Americans do.

 

The fact that we had feelings for each other and dated at one point......it is what it is. It was in the past, we were both filling time, and then it morphed into her calling/texting me every night for attention or an ego boost.

 

I know how to walk away. This might just be one of those situations where there's no apology on earth that I could ever write that would just "fix" things and all of a sudden we'd be best friends.

[The Raviator]

It seems like you guys are over analyzing this.

 

If you have done something that you feel the need to apologize for IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS! PERIOD!

 

You apologize regardless of the other person.

 

A couple of months ago I had someone that was supposed to sign a lease on a rental property. They kept changing there minds and being wishy washy. While this was happening I was just starting to deal with my Ex coming back around and was having a very short fuse.

 

I basically blasted the **** out of the people for jerking me around and wasting my time.

 

When I got home I felt terrible and realized that I had over reacted because of the other things bothering me.

 

When I got to work Monday morning I picked up the phone, called the guy and said "This is not a business call, I am calling as a man to apologize to you for my behavior." He was very receptive and we scheduled another lease signing for the next week. He pulled the same nonsense and this time I was nice and told him that I could no longer work with him.

 

The point is when I called to apologize it was totally sincere. I wasn't trying to get him back on the line and I didn't care how he reacted. All that mattered was that I had behaved in a way to another human being that wasn't kind.

 

Apologize and what ever happens... happens!

[Guitarguy_82]

Well said! I have to agree with that! Just let the chips fall where they may.

 

If I apologize and she cusses me out or calls me a bastard...then hey, that's what she got out of it. That's how she needed to view it and to her its justified.

 

My apology letter is sincere...because I do feel bad about how I acted.

 

Whether or not I want her in my life should be irrelevant and independent of the apology.

 

Thanks, Raviator.

[The Raviator]

Your welcome fellow Georgian!!

 

Good Luck!