Post-birthday NC break - How to React Next?

[nookbridge]

I'm going to step away for a few days and let my head clear up. You're so right, in that I am utterly indecisive at the moment, and I don't need to subject anyone to answering the same old questions and put up the same old content time after time. I am fed up with myself inside, and I can only imagine how an outsider, who only knows me through this forum, a generous spirit wanting to bestow knowledge upon me in a time of need must feel when having to try to grit their teeth through responding to these messages from someone who is totally scatterbrained.

 

Nattersmatter, I just wanted to thank you immensely for your help and I apologize for having to keep answering what seemingly are the same posts over and over again. When I have calmed down, processed my emotions and gained some rational thought, I'll put up a post on the forum on which direction I would like to lead. The last 48 hours have been really unsettling with all of this advice and analysis and input into my brain that I'm at sensory overload, causing me to be unassertive, indecisive and repulsive to be around.

 

I will answer the latest post you put up this evening and then go away for 3 or 4 days I figure. I know you're amazingly generous at helping a lot of people on here, and your energy is best served helping others who are ready to provide you with important questions, or dodge stupid spiders that land on you! Thanks once again!

[nookbridge]

What is she - Mother bleedin' Theresa!? STOP. Stop with this saint and sympathy nonsense! Think of some ex girlfriend of yours for whom you feel NOTHING...NADA... ZIP. Would YOU be arsed to get off your arse- ACTUALLY GET OFF YOUR ARSE to go meet her after you were done with her and there was no point in having anything to do with her any more? And then to keep mailing and IM-ing and not just replying as briefly and perfunctorily as manners would allow but actually INITIATING as well as ENCOURAGING the conversation to continue on a new topic? BE REAL. Nobody feels sorry for you. Least of all HER!

 

I have one in mind, yes. I would treat her like an old friend from high school or something. If I knew she was in town and she contacted me, I would meet up. But she would have to contact me, first, obviously, and that's impossible because we disappeared. I've been through an old, old exes' hometown many times after separating but never thought to pick up the phone and invite her to the beach with my friends, because, well, I don't care about her anymore. So yes, you're right!

 

If you were ready you wouldn't care WHAT her intentions are because you'd remember that as a man, it's your job to take a woman who is in Neutral/Not Bothered mode and charm the pants off of her (literally in some cases)! YOU...WERE...*NOT*...REA-DY. I have seen you a thousand times before. You weren't ready then and you aren't ready 'now'.

 

True! Chalk it up to being scared poop-less of her (re: obsession remark, amongst others).

 

 

She may have started to but clearly going by that last exchange and her childishly petty and jealous 'go get some girls' comment, that didn't take nearly enough to constitute moving on.

 

It was "but you should be picking up lots of girls" after I told the joke... "go get some girls" was a few months ago, now, but you're right.

 

It takes WAY more than 2 piddly months to even BEGIN to move on! It takes 1 year to have the ability to resist and 2 years to be functioning like your normal self again and 5 years to be completely over the lessons that the entire event churned up. And yes, she DID bloomin' see you at the nightclub! Her ACTIONS say so. Or what - you're suggesting that she just HAPPENED to realise she needed to be dancing with a man right at the moment she did seconds before you just HAPPENED to turn your head in her direction again? Get.... REAL. The woman is well versed in how men behave in that situation and only that situation and how to time it just right so make them jealous as well as give them a hurtful Vs-Up!

 

Or she could try to shortcut by refusing to grief? (I don't remember which post you mentioned this in...) Now that I think about it, she probably did. She went from a smoke immediately afterwards (I was with a friend outside when she snuck out). Immediate smoke = stressed ex.

 

As above. No, she bl**dy doesn't. Or else she'd have understood WHY you weren't ready by the time your birthday came around and wouldn't have majorly and vindictively over-reacted to the disappointment like she did (in fact, wouldn't have found herself disappointed and insulted in the first place!). Women who understand how men think, feel and tick don't have complete flame-outs. Because women who understand men (who thereby are bound to have taken the trouble to work THEMSELVES out first) don't pick the type of person with whom flame-outs are even remotely likely. How do you suppose she would even gain the foundation course of understanding men? Her own father can't even handle the intimacy of arguments, for god's sake! You think he would have let her see his entire psyche in all its naked glory, do you? PFFF. She understands ONE facet of male behaviour and that's all her closed-up, over-self-protective dad who can't even keep his ego from engaging negatively with his own child, ever taught her.

 

I applaud this remark. It's true...

 

 

Who's the adult there?! You wouldn't be able to tell, would you?! Her pops....Pff. Her BROTHER.

 

Actually, I think it is the little brother, who has a baker's dozen of age under his belt.

 

were practically separated, staying together for the other brother for the last two years, before I came in the picture, then reconciled and are still good

That's her template. Got that? That's her template. That's the reason she 'hung on' to these exes. Even two years doesn't automatically mean Over, let alone 2 months. That's her template. She hung on just in case but they ever got out of Prat Mode. (Epiphany my arse - finally accepted the reality of the bloke not having what it takes to get out of prat mode, more like!).

 

How she treats her parents always made me scared... because I know that I don't treat my mom well sometimes and these tendencies and behaviours were passed on to the relationship (therapy, I think, all those it's early days, has allowed me to work towards a better relationship with my mom).

 

Question is: Is she prepared HERSELF to stop being a prat? Or is it just the man who has to? Hmm? After all (ref marathon sulks), if they don't do it willingly, she MAKES them, doesn't she. She knows how (cheers, dad!), doesn't she.

 

I second your question. This is the rational part of my brain speaking. Ok, so I screwed up in the relationship, big time. I didn't treat you as you should've been treated, and I'm going away to improve myself. But this doesn't discount that my ex wasn't an equal player in this relationship ending. Will she learn to communicate better and say what she means? Will she be more independent and less dependent on me? Will she be more assertive? She sulked a few times during the relationship only, but I was able to get her out of it by saying it's not worth it for the relationship, for us as a partnership, to let your pride get the best of you.

 

You suffering yet, are you? Have you entered Plea Bargaining yet? (It's the grief stage that comes right before Depression and Acceptance - go google). "I'll doo anyyyy-thiiiiiing!!!!"

 

Ya get me, bro?

 

Haha... I don't think it's ever in stone those processes. I'm not pleading to sacrifice anything, moreas I'm doing the changes for myself as a person. I'm probably in depression, if anything...

 

She's as hard as nails and a power-mongerer. She can manage to be because she (ref frosty) never gets in deep enough in the first place whereby she LOSES her self-control and determination to that man-manipulating degree. She's an even WORSE hardbizc power-mongerer since YOU of all people hurt her. She thinks the brilliant solution is to BREAK YOU so that you can swap places - you slave, HER master.

 

You fancy that, do you? No? Then I suggest you either wait until SHE starts to suffer and wants to bargain - which means going BEYOND what she's perfectly used to and happy enough with as an outer Sulk/Barely Any Contact period. OR you kill her with kindness so that she ditches that 'brilliant' little self-protection plan.

 

I've already felt this for 1 hour back in Oct. I never felt more demoralized as a human, perhaps. I was so desperate to be around her at that point.

 

What are you - Forest bleedin' Gump? You have to be TOLD what to do next where moving on towards your next relationship is concerned? What did she think you were going to do - go out and try to chat up a lamppost?! Get...REAL. The tacit, automatic 'given' does not need to be even mentioned, let alone set out as some bleedin' instruction manual! You know DARN WELL not to go out and woo lampposts instead of women!

 

Haha... why she said it? To hurt, obviously.

 

She could more easily do that BY NOT IM-ING BACK!

 

She likes confrontation, though. It would be her style to have a partner to argue, as opposed to... wait, she sulks as well. You're right!

 

Oh, someone give her a plastic Bafta and tell her there's a job going at her local amateur dramatics group for the under 5s! But leaving aside the acting job for a moment - what a nasty response given your obvious pain!

 

WAS SHE ABUSIVE TO YOU? WAS SHE A BULLY?

 

What the hell do you want someone who'd behave like THAT at a time like that, back for??????? R.S.v.P., pur-leeease?!

 

She was not abusive towards me, or a bully. That comment was meant to make me feel bad, though. And a little bit of jealousy, considering post break-up, I have a dinner at my house for 13 friends, food was amazing, and she had to get her shot in. It was an ******* move. Why do I want her back after that comment (and a few other things post break-up? I know that she has a bad temper, and it's post break-up and she's angry. I can overlook it if it's an outlier, and not the normal. We have to forgive to love.

 

No, you don't know. So why do you keep arguing? We know why, don't we: PROCRASTINATION ATTEMPT. Every time you argue, the clock goes tick-tick-tick and the calendar leaves go swish-swish-swish. Do I LOOK stupid?

 

You're right! You got me!

 

Do you think I'm going to go off to another thread if you don't give me that decision (act/wait/forget it) or don't give the decision you think I want to hear? Trust me - I don't care WHAT you do, just as long as you make *A* decision. I have no vested interest one way or the other. I don't want either answer and I want either answer. The decision or the decision to hold off making any decision, is entirely up to you. Capiche?

 

I know you don't have a vested interest, other than that I'm happy at the end of the day. And I really appreciate that. I'm the one that has to own up to it. It's an important decision, but it isn't the important decision of my life. I have to grow a pair and accept whatever happens. I just have to realize this in my head, and act, and not just type it.

 

Hoooray!!! Allelujlia!!! (Is that a final decision or do you want to sit with the idea for longer?)

 

Sit on it longer...

 

They worked, didn't they. ;-) Ohhhh, I'm not saying she's not good. Just that I'm better. ;-p (Thinking about it: Did I remember to mention I'm an ex-player? A maestro at that? If I didn't - if I'm thinking of someone else's thread - now you know.)

 

We're not even friends on FB, that's the thing. I see them via her cousin's feed, if she commented on the photos or something. If she did it to get to me, I'd be surprised. Over Christmas, with that friend I mentioned to you prior, the picture was to probably to get to me. Not so much this time.

 

Not cautious. Cautious is for totally unchartered territory. So with charted territory, it's CAREFUL. Diff/diff.

 

I'm no longer so sure this is ABOUT cautiousness as in your inability to be brave, however. You don't MIND hurt. You don't MIND pain. You'll sit there taking it for the sake of other more important-to-you priorities. Your past track record proves that. So, I'm now thinking this is your SENSIBLE side speaking (and saying, 'Don't go there - it's rotten.'). Can you sit and replay the tape with your eyes peeled only for whether she was emotionally bullying or even abusive towards you, please, and - gathering up all your confidence and honesty - tell me the true verdict?

 

Inability to be brave, yea. She didn't cross the line with me in terms of abuse, until after the break up. Some of things she said after the break up were despicable and low. My mom had a car accident, and 2 minutes after getting a call from a friend who's at the hospital, my ex IM's me. I told her that this was not the right moment, and she said, you never change, you could've said it another way. I ask her if it was anything important she wanted to say, and she went into a diatribe of all the bad things I did, blaming her laziness and lack of charisma on me, and at the end of the conversation, this comment "don't suffer for our relationship ending, suffer for your mother, like how you didn't suffer breaking up with me all those times you did." It hurt at the time, although reading it now, I guess you would need context to see where it would cause pain. Anyways, you're right on both counts - lack of bravery + sensible side screaming, "you're going to get hurt"

 

If you were to go back in *now*, you'd have to be aware of this and take it into consideration. If you were to wait until SHE hits the point where she, equally, would dooo anythiiiiing (whaaah!), then you could be sure she'd operate on the table top like she's supposed to.

 

That's where I would have to assertive with her, or back out if I realize this is the case and she isn't following, I suppose?

 

Do you? Would you? Is that what this is about?... Has she put you into the female frame of mind where you simply want to tame the threat so as to see it removed?

 

More like taking the question out of my hands and answering it.

 

1. Can't you? Why can't you?

 

I could. I would just have to do it in an ingenious way. That's where the mental block is.

 

2. GOTCHA! (Worried HER interest is going to wane. Pff.)

 

Yes.

 

So let's wait and take advantage of the fact newbie is going to be unavailable on holiday, and concentrate on exipoopoos! Simple! Yes? Or not? First I need that answer to that burning question about bullying.

 

See above

 

If you meant where 250 degrees represents greater mental attachment which means sex happens as much if not more so in the head as well as through the usual channel of the naughty bits, then, YES - TICK!

 

What most of the world doesn't realize when complaining about sex? Me included.

 

When you're ready to- not make but PLACE a decision, it will look like either of these without any other (no offense) waffle either before or after it:

 

(a) Yes

(b) No

© Not yet

(d) Still don't know/need more time.

 

D

[Nattersmatter]

I'm going to step away for a few days and let my head clear up. You're so right, in that I am utterly indecisive at the moment, and I don't need to subject anyone to answering the same old questions and put up the same old content time after time. I am fed up with myself inside, and I can only imagine how an outsider, who only knows me through this forum, a generous spirit wanting to bestow knowledge upon me in a time of need must feel when having to try to grit their teeth through responding to these messages from someone who is totally scatterbrained.

 

Oh, trust me, it's not about how *I* feel. I'm not frustrated at you nor losing patience (if anything I have TOO much of that and even if you took another 2 months to make a decision, I would just sit here happily repeating myself and yourself until it sunk in). I'm just giving you a kick up the jacksie by rote because I can see YOU need it because YOU'RE suffering from the paralysis. I have no personal feelings about this whatsoever save for compassion, hard as though that might be to believe, plus my eye is always fixed on the prize - the end result...like housework: You've done it a zillion times thus can do it on auto pilot whilst spicing it up in creative ways and just fixating on the inevitable sparkle at the end ("Theeyuss haaouse eeyuz clean - name the film!).

 

Nattersmatter, I just wanted to thank you immensely for your help and I apologize for having to keep answering what seemingly are the same posts over and over again.

 

LOL, just addressed that (and I'm here because I want to be). If you want proof - go look at my profile history to see me repeating the same ol' same ol' over and over despite in varied ways and styles. And I do so love typing because it mimicks my second greatest obsession - piano playing. Plus I'm hyperactive so it's this or running around the room with no knickers on going, 'Wheeeeee, I'm an aeroplane!' just to rid myself of the excess energy. You wouldn't want me to do THAT, now, would you, at my age, LOL.

 

Seriously, though, folk - DON'T FEEL BAD, is what I'm saying. It's pointless. If I ever have any genuine problem I'll just come right out and say so, spelled out. I ain't shy. ;-)

 

When I have calmed down, processed my emotions and gained some rational thought, I'll put up a post on the forum on which direction I would like to lead. The last 48 hours have been really unsettling with all of this advice and analysis and input into my brain that I'm at sensory overload, causing me to be unassertive, indecisive and repulsive to be around.

 

I know. Hence the other point of kicking your backside.

 

You're a control freak and OCD thinker when upset. I get it. And I'm well used to them.

 

I will answer the latest post you put up this evening and then go away for 3 or 4 days I figure. I know you're amazingly generous at helping a lot of people on here, and your energy is best served helping others who are ready to provide you with important questions, or dodge stupid spiders that land on you! Thanks once again!

 

Ew, stop it, my bum's starting to feel damp, LOL. Just make a leap of faith and cooperate by accepting that virtually no human can see their own woods for the trees and that's precisely why and when you should yield to A N Other who's well versed in where you're at and on whose thought and communication wavelength you can tell you are. "To know the road ahead, ask those coming back" (Chinese proverb) and "Shut the eff up and do as y'er bleedin' told" (me) (and the grandmother who sucks eggs).

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I'm feeling exceedingly chatty (uh-oh, you!)....

 

I have [an ex] in mind, yes. I would treat her like an old friend from high school or something. If I knew she was in town and she contacted me, I would meet up. But she would have to contact me, first, obviously, and that's impossible because we disappeared. I've been through an old, old exes' hometown many times after separating but never thought to pick up the phone and invite her to the beach with my friends, because, well, I don't care about her anymore. So yes, you're right!

 

I wasn't referring to exes whereby you've had more than ample time to forget all of the bad and remember only the good, as per your first example, but... never mind, your stream of consciousness got there in the end so - Good. Put that bona fide illustration in the mental concrete-evidence file so that you don't lose sight of it ever again. You should also file this data: when directed to stand in the other's shoes, you suddenly see the truth crystal-clearly without the previous trouble. (And FYI - what I said basically about there being virtually no significant gender differences in attitudes and feelings when it comes to the intricacies of romantic relationships (despite partners blame each other's gender whenever things go wrong), has been officially confirmed, courtesy of a recent indepth study based on a sample group of 13,300 individuals conducted by Rochester Uni, N.Y. State, meaning it's not even about understanding the opposite sex, just PEOPLE.... despite we get handed different scripts containing differing rights and liberties). File that concerted method (with or without the aid of your own actual experiences in combo with your imagination) for instant understanding and empathising into the uppermost cabinet drawer, remember you now have it as a skill you can rely on even in times of cloudedness, and will never need be confused over another person's behaviour and underlying agenda again.

 

True! Chalk it up to being scared poop-less of her (re: obsession remark, amongst others).

 

So WHAT if you're obsessed with her? How does anyone think bonding successfully and harmoniously for life or certainly until offspring are 16-18yrs old would work WITHOUT that level of interest? By 'quite liking' each other?! What is her point - that you shouldn't ADMIT IT?! Shame on her if she's NOT still obsessed with *you*!

 

You think my husband isn't obsessed with me or I with him? No "relationship Lite" for US two, no, siree! And it's LOVELY. Two openly and unabashedly obsessives all snuggly-cosy together. As it SHOULD be. Hard work to maintain and reciprocate? You betcha! Worth it prize-wise? GOD, YES!

 

But your obsessiveness or not wasn't her point. Humiliating you was. Revenge. Via a mythically-shameful label (she may as well have accused you of liking sex!). Kidding herself she has the upper hand and self-indulging (highly cruelly!) in it. Methinks the lady doth protesteth too much because, well... whilst you're there 'obsessing' over her - where is she? Is she flat-out ignoring you or giving you and your stomping ground a wide berth?...I mean, what better and zero-sweat way to say, Stop trying to engage with me, wouldn't you think? Yet she seemingly cannot resist, can she. Air!.... hi verreh STRRRANGE for one who'd claim she *isn't* obsessed!

 

You need to remember your normal, non-DefCon knack of spotting actions over all else (especially mere words), Nookbridge. Like this classic:

 

"Brrringg-brringggg..."

You: Hello?

Ex: It's me. I'm just phoning to let you know that I don't CARE that we're over! I never loved you, ANYWAY! So stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it! [click!]

You: (Clearly you don't and didn't, ...sure, ...absolutely, ...I see that, uh-huh...)

 

Actions. Actions speak louder. Words are cheap and downright meaningless without the matching ACTION. If you were to replay the tape concentrating mainly on the actions, you would see too many of her words reduced to the total nonsense they were.

 

Also, that was a very hostile attitude with you she took. Aggression, particularly that's OTT compared to what supposedly has triggered it, is fear converted - used as attack as a form of defense, meaning evidently, so is she scared of YOU. But MORE SO. So for her information: the opposite to love is not hate/hostility (which is love/need and anger together) but indifference. Not snooty indifference. Not deliberately-ignoring-you indifference. Not suddenly-dancing-with-a-bloke indifference. I'm talking NEUTRAL.

 

I told you, remember? - three-legged-race. You are "Here", *she* is "Here" - whether going UP the track to Hot or back down to Cold. Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum. How else do you suppose exists that 'great mystery' regarding when a friend reports that they SWEAR their ex must be, quote, telepathic or something, or how is it that EV-ERY TIME they are at their most vulnerable is precisely when the ex goes and calls them and manages to put their progress back? The answer is simple: the ex is likewise at their most vulnerable (in a huge grief-resistance wave) at that point, too and has simply experienced a lowering of the normal barrier (fear) whereby in comparison Desire becomes greatest = action gets released. And this applies not only with grief waves but with grief phases. There you go (10p, please).

 

It was "but you should be picking up lots of girls" after I told the joke... "go get some girls" was a few months ago, now, but you're right.

 

See what happens when I take the self-made pressure of yours off you by reassuring you I'm not going to 'get bored' and leave your thread and that you don't have to make a decision unless there's one already formed and in your pocket? Suddenly, I'm right, all over the shop. (I'm not right, anyway - truth of reality is. I'm just pointing it out.) So it's obvious to see that despite you don't let fear STOP you, you do let it intefere and affect your performance. So if only you'd be HONEST about your fears and concerns with people, willingly and right off the bat, you'd very quickly have a major impediment against success REMOVED.

 

Just because people closest to you happened to be emotional messes, doesn't mean everyone is likely to be. Don't judge all people by injured people's standards. Dare to be and act healthily and if you DO ever get unhealthy responses back, that's THEIR problem and it's your NATURAL behaviour which then serves to HIGHLIGHT that the problem is all theirs and only theirs. Do you see what I'm saying? If you hold back all the time, you are either going to make caring and mentally hard-working types over-compensate for you by doing what is YOUR duty as well as their own - which then can become a master-slave situation with you the (passive) controller - or you're going to repel stubborn types who prefer the other (you) to do

THEIR chores. Again - see what I'm saying? You end up with Opposites attracting instead of Like and Like. You need to be BALANCED... WELL-ROUNDED.. balanced according to YOUR natural setting when devoid of experiential issues to be a Healthy Like that attracts a Healthy Like. That's how to end up with a healthy thus everlasting relationship.

 

Analogy: a relationship is a see-saw, yes. But the see-saw mustn't be FIXED positionally. It should go up and down in a takesie-turnie fashion for both riders to enjoy the ride equally and want to stay on it together for as long as life allows. If you're stuck in the Up position and your partner in the Down, she's going to feel the involuntary urge to force an adjustment...as might you, eventually, because it's BORING FOR BOTH (despite soonest boring in the Down position). And the extremeness of your position in relation to hers is going to demand an adjustment that's directly proportionate to the original discrepancy: EQUALLY EXTREME/SAME DEGREE. This means you then end up (like you now find yourself) with you stuck in the Down position and her in the Up. You can actually symbolically see this having happened, yes?

 

Your mistake was not wanting to be forthcomingly honest and, thereby, forced to compensate, meaning you were out of kilter in terms of presenting all of your facets equally or equitously. The situation forced her to do the same, which is precisely why you are, now you're in a different 'orientation', getting to see facets of her that weren't even aware she possessed (which feels like 'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers'). Again - see it?

 

Your facets or groups of facets, each have to take turns as well. It's your see-saw ride with YOURSELF (which in order to do successfully necessitates you standing, legs spread with you centred, in the MIDDLE of the seesaw, yet taking into account your own individual centre of gravity). By having a balanced relationship with yourself - letting every side of yourself 'out' at every height possible - you demonstrably engage all facets, which, from 'friction' with the open air, become clean thus sparkly........AND THAT'S HOW YOU BECOME A "DIAMOND" GEEZER. (*Not* rocket science, si?)

 

50p, please.

 

Or she could try to shortcut by refusing to grief? (I don't remember which post you mentioned this in...) Now that I think about it, she probably did. She went from a smoke immediately afterwards (I was with a friend outside when she snuck out). Immediate smoke = stressed ex.

 

Well done! (You're back!) Hurrah! And oh, lookie here: Tweedledee had to rush out for a recovery smoke and - would you adam 'n eve it - so had Tweedledum. ;-)

 

I applaud this remark. It's true...

 

I'd rather have a tube of Smarties, cheers.

 

Actually, I think it is the little brother, who has a baker's dozen of age under his belt.

 

Que? No entiendo. Otro vez, por favor?

 

How she treats her parents always made me scared... because I know that I don't treat my mom well sometimes and these tendencies and behaviours were passed on to the relationship (therapy, I think, all those it's early days, has allowed me to work towards a better relationship with my mom).

 

How exactly DID she treat her parents? And how did that differ from how you treated your mum? And what was it specifically you blamed mum for? (- Dad?)

 

But you failed to posit any comment over my point, which was HER TEMPLATE.

 

I second your question. This is the rational part of my brain speaking. Ok, so I screwed up in the relationship, big time. I didn't treat you as you should've been treated, and I'm going away to improve myself. But this doesn't discount that my ex wasn't an equal player in this relationship ending. Will she learn to communicate better and say what she means? Will she be more independent and less dependent on me? Will she be more assertive? She sulked a few times during the relationship only, but I was able to get her out of it by saying it's not worth it for the relationship, for us as a partnership, to let your pride get the best of you.

 

Whether she dares to show all of her own facets and buff them up through useage, is HER business. Whether you and she are meant to stay together forever depends entirely on whether she is going to 'step up' however many steps of the developmental staircase or stay below where you cannot reach her without bending over backwards (and falling DOWN) and she cannot reach you without off-balancing herself (and falling FACE-first), ergo the twain are not meant to meet. We're all journeying on this staircase and all traverse upwards at different rates. Fall back or step forwards a few steps and you lose common ground with friends, colleagues, relatives, whatever and literally leave them behind or get left behind, either temporarily with room to catch up or not, awaiting for new arrivals onto the step you're on. It's no different with friends of the opposite sex who 'merely happen' to have such a mutually powerful chemical reaction thanks to their own genetic make-up being optimally compatible with your own (as signals brilliant offspring would result) that you find their company most pleasing of all you know as has you wanting to be their bestest CLOSEST friend for life, berbom.

 

You cannot MAKE someone step up or fall back. People know which step they SHOULD be on and feel uncomfortable being made to miss out steps or re-do steps, which is no basis for equal welfare and clear and effort-free relating. At some point they will leave you in order to right that wrong position. (1) Right Person, (2) Right Place, (3) Right Time: (1) shared chemistry, (2) same step, (3) on the same 'day' AND SIMULTANEOUSLY (1) compatible personality and aims/goals match, (2) being in the same location in order to meet plus compatible life age or stage, and (3) being in the same overriding mental welfare state.... equals INSTANT, NO-EFFORT EMPATHY equals HARMONY. And if you stay close by staying honest and 'plugging in' regularly (sex and skin-to-skin communication), you'll have that three-legged-race rope keeping you bound together and in synch so that you climb that staircase at the same speed and rate FOREVER. Berbom. AIN'T...rocket science.

 

If you want her to step up due to realising that stepping up is necessary in order to be comfortably with you once more, and she aspires to that, you have to maintain your position, your height at all times. By all means make a TEMPORARY trip down to her step. But do not stay there if she is refusing to be encouraged upwards to the step you currently are living on.

 

How do I know that you're on a higher step than her? Simple. You have learned from having treated her badly (not having dared give up and share the Up) and vowed repeatedly never to do that again and have DEMONSTRATED that with your honesty (as had her cruelly and hostilely asking if you were obsessed with her). She, however, hasn't. That makes her error worse than your original error - converts it to a CRIME - because it's one thing to know what a kick feels like but another entirely to turn around and do the same when KNOWING how horrid it feels. That makes her a thick hypocrite. Frankly. Need for revenge is so great she's allowing it to take priority over her mental powers.

 

Women usually ARE faster emotional processors than men. But not in this case, oh, no. You're majorly ahead of her. It remains to be seen whether she can calm down enough to catch up to you.

 

However, you shouldn't impede her in that...which brings me to the fact that you had a promised repeat invitation attempt pending. How is being inconsistent in demonstrating which higher step you're on, you making it CLEAR which step you're on?

 

Not saying you have to do that follow-up invitation like you stated you would... Just pointing it out. I think re-issuing it before deciding to send a Farewell mail makes more sense (and demonstrably represents a calm constancy in you) (not to mention sanity!) than going from, 'How about a drinkipoos?' straight to, in the next breath, 'Farewell', ...don't you? The lesson here is - no strategy will work if you allow your fluctuating emotions to dictate your actions. Lead with the strategy always in mind and stick two fingers up to the emotions. Emotions are just temporary psychophysiological sensations that don't last, anyway. What is the point in letting some temporary visitor affect your longer-term quality of life that only YOU have to long-term experience? Wouldn't that be like redecorating the entire house, downstairs and up, just because a friend intends to stop by for tea in your living room (with possibly a quick visit to the downstairs loo) for a couple of hours that afternoon before emigrating to Australia for a year or more???

 

Lead with the feelings when the climate is positive, NOT when it turns negative. If it turns negative, that proves the heart ballsed-up as well as wasn't letting the head monitor the situation from on high, at the ever ready, like it's supposed to.

 

Are you going to prematurely hand back to your heart in spite of its incapability or learn from that mistake and re-do things correctly?

 

Haha... I don't think it's ever in stone those processes. I'm not pleading to sacrifice anything, moreas I'm doing the changes for myself as a person. I'm probably in depression, if anything...

 

Correctamundo - it's a Sine wave with the Sine moving ever slowly downwards psyche level by psyche level (I've worked out there are about 15 between full consciousness and unconsciousness) - or where talking recovery, upwards, but whereby there's a median/base position from which these fluctuations take place. You're doing it for yourself AND for her - be honest (BE HONEST) - and there's nothing wrong with that because you're PROGRAMMED to be motivate-able by other people (or else the micro or macro pack would break down); and the more you want them in your life as an enhancer, the more of a motivation they'll pose as. No, you're not in depression as your base position, you're not there yet ("ha-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha"). You've been mainly in Denial (argue, argue, argue), suppressing your Anger (like you were taught was safer to) and occasionally bouncing against the periphery wall of depression (albeit that's your natural visitational inclination, anyway), via Plea Bargaining ("I vow, I vow, I vow"). (Actions, mushtie, actions!) You've been USING depression as your aid (excuse) to procrastination, hence, reason for procrastination removed - miras! - you instantly chirp up and cease resisting and rebelling (well, for you, anyway, LOL).

 

I've already felt this for 1 hour back in Oct. I never felt more demoralized as a human, perhaps. I was so desperate to be around her at that point.

 

(LOL, am now scrolling back upwards to see WHAT you 'felt' and whether it holds potential for a double-entendre-style gnaarf opportunity) (damn - no, it doesn't, LOL)

 

There's nothing wrong with being desperate for the one you love and don't wish to see 'die'. It's when you sacrifice OTHER states, like self-confidence and humour, that it sticks out as a weakness despite it's bigger than usual quantity. Can you imagine being desperate in a "desperate 'n proud!", self-confident and humorous way? Try it now: write me a single-sentanced statement that demonstrates all three at once.

 

Haha... why she said it? To hurt, obviously.

 

THERE

YOU

GO

(Tick!)

 

She likes confrontation, though. It would be her style to have a partner to argue, as opposed to... wait, she sulks as well. You're right!

 

[gaffaw-gaffaw]

 

It's simple: MUM likes to argue: in-out-bish-bosh-DONE (Down). Dad likes to sulk: spring-into-summer, cobwebs collect, Miss Haversham gets bored waiting, LOL (Up). You behave like mum and you get argued with. Behave like dad and you get marathon sulked at. Her loyalties are obviously divided (bad marriage). And because she's still a child, she still operates according to whatever her original pack dictates in terms of how to behave and when and for what duration. Do you think in future you could incorporate BOTH parents styles and without even trying? It's easy, by the way, it's called, DARING TO BE YOURSELF.

 

She was not abusive towards me, or a bully.

 

Good. Best to check...

 

That comment was meant to make me feel bad, though. And a little bit of jealousy, considering post break-up, I have a dinner at my house for 13 friends, food was amazing, and she had to get her shot in.

 

Which shot was that?

 

It was an ******* move. Why do I want her back after that comment (and a few other things post break-up? I know that she has a bad temper, and it's post break-up and she's angry. I can overlook it if it's an outlier, and not the normal. We have to forgive to love.

 

We have to love to forgive. We have to forgive to CONTINUE to love. (Paper, scissors, stone - best of 3 - go! LOL)

 

You're right! You got me!

 

("Iiii've gooot yoooooou... unnnn-der-myy skiiiiiiiin...") Really? Cool. How much will I get for you on Ebay??? (Do you have batteries already?) (Ignore me, I think my right brain is starting to rebel at the disparity with my left. I'll do my 'wheeee, I'm an aeroplane!' in a min, that oughta do it. LOL)

 

LOL, In fact, the correct answer to do I LOOK stupid?, was: I can't actually see you, Nattersmatter.

 

I know you don't have a vested interest, other than that I'm happy at the end of the day. And I really appreciate that.

 

Well, don't. Not on a personal level, I mean (despite you're very likeable which makes this task that much more pleasant). It's like this: "Miserable people are nasty people/nasty people are miserable people; Happy people are nice people/nice people are happy people). Miserable Cat A snaps at or kicks Cat B who snaps at or kicks Cat D who snaps at........ad infinitum...negative snowball = Evil, on a conglomerate scale as depends on what level of status and power over other groups or societies or countries each person in the chain holds. Contended Cat A is lovely to Cat B who is lovely to Cat D who is lovely to...... ad infinitum...positive snowball = Good, (ditto). The two are like constantly opposing, fluctuating waves and it's a never-ending job (if you happen to be one of such cogs programmed to want to make a difference in their own lifetime to that power ratio rather than sitting on your arse bemoaning the state of the world yet expecting everyone but yourself to do a thing to change it).

 

But if you fail to pay this forward once able to - woe betide you when the comes-around comes around, okay? [dramatically narrows eyes and wags index finger ominously]

 

I'm the one that has to own up to it. It's an important decision, but it isn't the important decision of my life. I have to grow a pair and accept whatever happens. I just have to realize this in my head, and act, and not just type it.

 

Gold Star! (or one of my Smarties if you prefer?)

 

Sit on it longer...

 

Sit on it longer whilst you grow a pair? (Finbar Saunders told me to tell you, 'Cheers!')

 

Here... serious question: Have you noticed you're in the driving seat with me suddenly? [wiggles eyebrows] How did THAT happen, do you suppose?

 

We're not even friends on FB, that's the thing. I see them via her cousin's feed, if she commented on the photos or something. If she did it to get to me, I'd be surprised. Over Christmas, with that friend I mentioned to you prior, the picture was to probably to get to me. Not so much this time.

 

(Uh-oh. Am now shoving you back into the passenger's seat.) No, THIS is the thing: *cousins*. (Is that a duuuh I hear?)

 

Inability to be brave, yea. She didn't cross the line with me in terms of abuse, until after the break up. Some of things she said after the break up were despicable and low.

 

You're telling ME!

 

My mom had a car accident, and 2 minutes after getting a call from a friend who's at the hospital, my ex IM's me. I told her that this was not the right moment, and she said, you never change, you could've said it another way. I ask her if it was anything important she wanted to say, and she went into a diatribe of all the bad things I did, blaming her laziness and lack of charisma on me, and at the end of the conversation, this comment "don't suffer for our relationship ending, suffer for your mother, like how you didn't suffer breaking up with me all those times you did." It hurt at the time, although reading it now, I guess you would need context to see where it would cause pain. Anyways, you're right on both counts - lack of bravery + sensible side screaming, "you're going to get hurt"

 

Pow equals Ow plus (self-)protectiveness. Huge Pow equals Huge Ow. But that's what self-control is for, isn't it. But that's what being developmentally on track according to one's age is for, isn't it. But that's what parents and good grandparents are for, isn't it. But that's what a good marriage is for, isn't it. But that's what society ruled by Government is for, isn't it.....................

 

Just how many times did you 'leave' her?

 

If she wasn't abusive during the relationship, it's not your sensible side doing the screaming. It's the space your bigger b*lls should be taking up.

 

That's where I would have to assertive with her, or back out if I realize this is the case and she isn't following, I suppose?

 

Gold star! But substitute assertive with confident, reassuring, positively-reinforcing and inspiring as begets positive assertiveness.

 

More like taking the question out of my hands and answering it.

 

That's called Quitting, being Defeatist.

 

I could. I would just have to do it in an ingenious way. That's where the mental block is.

 

Refer to doing desperation with confidence and humour.

 

Yes.

 

Yes, what? Yes, worried her interest will wane? If that's what you mean: No. I meant, you're NOT worried *Newbie's* interest will wane. You're projecting. You're worried *your* interest will wane because you wanted Newbie now-now-now mainly as a jealousy-making aid and by the fact that she's unavailable now-now-now plus the fact that she hasn't given you any indication that she'll become available soon-soon-soon or EVER, your "interest" which you had convinced yourself was genuinely/purely romantic but wasn't, is understandably- not at risk of 'disappearing' but 'waning'. Specifically, being HALVED. Geddit? This is proof positive as far as I'm concerned that you are still TOTALLY attached to ex. But proof positive for YOU because (1 then 2-5 years) if you thought for one second that I genuinely believed you were suitably ready for A N Other at only 2 months in, Y'ER 'AVIN' A LAARF.

 

What most of the world doesn't realize when complaining about sex? Me included.

 

WHAT doesn't most of the world realise when complaining about sex?

 

D

 

Decision D. Perfecto!

 

Want to draft your follow-up invitation yet?

 

(a) Yes

(b) No

© Not yet

(d) Don't know/nee- wait, no, you can't have more time, you've had long enough (tho-weeeee).

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

I'm just giving you a kick up the jacksie by rote because I can see YOU need it because YOU'RE suffering from the paralysis. I have no personal feelings about this whatsoever save for compassion, hard as though that might be to believe, plus my eye is always fixed on the prize - the end result

 

I'm so paralyzed it's amazing... you mention mimicry a ton between a pair of exes, so I'm wondering if she's paralyzed too or not? And I appreciate your compassion and that you want me to be ok and find love (with the appropriate mate...).

 

You're a control freak and OCD thinker when upset. I get it. And I'm well used to them.

 

Not just when I'm upset... all the time. Hence the paralysis. I like to control every single aspect of my action, and think of every scenario in order to not screw up any situation that I really care about. I don't like uncertainty.

 

What is A N Other?

[nookbridge]

I'm feeling exceedingly chatty (uh-oh, you!)....

 

The more you speak, the more I learn about things...

 

I wasn't referring to exes whereby you've had more than ample time to forget all of the bad and remember only the good, as per your first example, but... never mind, your stream of consciousness got there in the end so - Good. Put that bona fide illustration in the mental concrete-evidence file so that you don't lose sight of it ever again. You should also file this data: when directed to stand in the other's shoes, you suddenly see the truth crystal-clearly without the previous trouble. (And FYI - what I said basically about there being virtually no significant gender differences in attitudes and feelings when it comes to the intricacies of romantic relationships (despite partners blame each other's gender whenever things go wrong), has been officially confirmed, courtesy of a recent indepth study based on a sample group of 13,300 individuals conducted by Rochester Uni, N.Y. State, meaning it's not even about understanding the opposite sex, just PEOPLE.... despite we get handed different scripts containing differing rights and liberties). File that concerted method (with or without the aid of your own actual experiences in combo with your imagination) for instant understanding and empathising into the uppermost cabinet drawer, remember you now have it as a skill you can rely on even in times of cloudedness, and will never need be confused over another person's behaviour and underlying agenda again.

 

It's a bit counterintuitive for me. Sometimes it's best to keep it simple, as much as my ex tries to blow smoke in front of your face. Why does someone offer friendship after breaking up, especially when it wasn't a mutual break-up? Why does someone flip out when you allegedly restricted your FB profile? Why does someone still want to talk to you even after delivering the worst pain imaginable, eliminating someone from their life? It's because they have a need for you in their mind. Today's inconvenience is tomorrow's solution. And on this topic, why was my ex still in contact with her previous ex during the relationship, especially with her ex hanging out with her family and looking for old photos and keeping them? I guess it's for the same reason as she is in contact with me. Her excuse was that it was 3.5 years and that's something you never forget and they she will always care for him... but she dumped him!

 

So WHAT if you're obsessed with her? How does anyone think bonding successfully and harmoniously for life or certainly until offspring are 16-18yrs old would work WITHOUT that level of interest? By 'quite liking' each other?! What is her point - that you shouldn't ADMIT IT?! Shame on her if she's NOT still obsessed with *you*!

 

But your obsessiveness or not wasn't her point. Humiliating you was. Revenge. Via a mythically-shameful label (she may as well have accused you of liking sex!). Kidding herself she has the upper hand and self-indulging (highly cruelly!) in it. Methinks the lady doth protesteth too much because, well... whilst you're there 'obsessing' over her - where is she? Is she flat-out ignoring you or giving you and your stomping ground a wide berth?...I mean, what better and zero-sweat way to say, Stop trying to engage with me, wouldn't you think? Yet she seemingly cannot resist, can she. Air!.... hi verreh STRRRANGE for one who'd claim she *isn't* obsessed!

 

You need to remember your normal, non-DefCon knack of spotting actions over all else (especially mere words), Nookbridge. Like this classic:

 

"Brrringg-brringggg..."

You: Hello?

Ex: It's me. I'm just phoning to let you know that I don't CARE that we're over! I never loved you, ANYWAY! So stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it! [click!]

You: (Clearly you don't and didn't, ...sure, ...absolutely, ...I see that, uh-huh...)

 

Actions. Actions speak louder. Words are cheap and downright meaningless without the matching ACTION. If you were to replay the tape concentrating mainly on the actions, you would see too many of her words reduced to the total nonsense they were.

 

Ok. It's tough not to focus on the words, especially when they're portrayed to make you feel like she's better than she is.

 

Also, that was a very hostile attitude with you she took. Aggression, particularly that's OTT compared to what supposedly has triggered it, is fear converted - used as attack as a form of defense, meaning evidently, so is she scared of YOU. But MORE SO. So for her information: the opposite to love is not hate/hostility (which is love/need and anger together) but indifference. Not snooty indifference. Not deliberately-ignoring-you indifference. Not suddenly-dancing-with-a-bloke indifference. I'm talking NEUTRAL.

 

She is scared of me. Scared of me walking away forever. There goes a security blanket should she not find love before her patience wears out. And that won't take very long with her idea of finding love. And yes, her words post b-day suggested someone putting up a wall, and you don't have to put up a wall if you don't care. You just don't even engage. So I serve some sort of purpose to these actions.

 

I told you, remember? - three-legged-race. You are "Here", *she* is "Here" - whether going UP the track to Hot or back down to Cold. Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum. How else do you suppose exists that 'great mystery' regarding when a friend reports that they SWEAR their ex must be, quote, telepathic or something, or how is it that EV-ERY TIME they are at their most vulnerable is precisely when the ex goes and calls them and manages to put their progress back? The answer is simple: the ex is likewise at their most vulnerable (in a huge grief-resistance wave) at that point, too and has simply experienced a lowering of the normal barrier (fear) whereby in comparison Desire becomes greatest = action gets released. And this applies not only with grief waves but with grief phases. There you go (10p, please).

 

So, even though she's a female, I'm the dumper and she the dumpee, we are going to go through the phases and waves of grief in a similar manner? It doesn't seem to make sense...

 

Well done! (You're back!) Hurrah! And oh, lookie here: Tweedledee had to rush out for a recovery smoke and - would you adam 'n eve it - so had Tweedledum. ;-)

 

So her refusing to grief... does that leave her permanently in denial and anger phases, or what is the typical consequence of refusing to grief?

 

I'd rather have a tube of Smarties, cheers.

 

I like Smarties too!

 

Que? No entiendo. Otro vez, por favor?

 

The 13 year old brother is the adult. He asks, so why does pops sleep on the couch? And then, when he goes back to bed now, he asks, so you said your back sore, but was it ever sore for 2 years? I think the reconciliation in the family correlated to my ex leaving the household. It's definitely curious timing, weeks after she leaves, they get back together.

 

How exactly DID she treat her parents? And how did that differ from how you treated your mum? And what was it specifically you blamed mum for? (- Dad?)

 

I don't have confirmation of this, but I believe, putting enough snippets of info together, that she did have physical confrontations with both parents. Shouting matches with mom, and battles of pride and stubborness with pops. They didn't give her very much freedom growing up, so she rebelled, but she had an internal limit she respected. It's like a chicken in a cage that runs around in its coop for hours, covers a lot of distance, but never leaves the coop. And after a while, the chicken gets tired and quits running. My mom and I never got physical, but I definitely yelled a lot, and when I pouted, I pouted for a long time (one time, I pouted for 4 months straight without saying a word). Christ, my ex and I mirror each other! My pops beat the crap out of me, so I played nice to him to avoid getting hit and even be smart enough to deflect it onto my mom (I would be angry at my mom, probably for stupid stuff) when I knew he was in a bad mood, but didn't mind because I had the mentality of survival of the fittest. I liked to rebel, but I knew what my limit was and I tried to push it little by little when I could. What I'm noticing is that we're more similar than we thought....

 

I blamed my mom for not giving me certain things, or not allowing me to do things, or I would play the role of my pops, who would be vindictive if he was in a bad mood, and take out my frustrations on my mom, because I knew she loves me so much, and I could hurt her, and that way I could get that feeling that if I'm in a bad mood, then she has to be in a bad mood too. My dad you blame for hitting you. And that happened all the time. If you were upset with one of his decisions, well, you shut up. Unless you felt like getting whacked.

 

But you failed to posit any comment over my point, which was HER TEMPLATE.

 

I got the template thing. So, anyone who's really insecure is going to want to keep that person around for a rainy day, or it's a battle at the saloon, where each one waits for the other to smarten up for the other.

 

How do I know that you're on a higher step than her? Simple. You have learned from having treated her badly (not having dared give up and share the Up) and vowed repeatedly never to do that again and have DEMONSTRATED that with your honesty (as had her cruelly and hostilely asking if you were obsessed with her). She, however, hasn't. That makes her error worse than your original error - converts it to a CRIME - because it's one thing to know what a kick feels like but another entirely to turn around and do the same when KNOWING how horrid it feels. That makes her a thick hypocrite. Frankly. Need for revenge is so great she's allowing it to take priority over her mental powers.

 

You're saying, that if it wasn't for her need to seek revenge on me, she would've opened up to the idea of reconciliation ages ago, upon seeing that I have learned from my mistakes?

 

Is that what you're getting at, or am I way off with that assessment?

 

Women usually ARE faster emotional processors than men. But not in this case, oh, no. You're majorly ahead of her. It remains to be seen whether she can calm down enough to catch up to you.

 

I'm still super-sad and yet to regroup from everything. I would say she's ahead of me, no?

 

However, you shouldn't impede her in that...which brings me to the fact that you had a promised repeat invitation attempt pending. How is being inconsistent in demonstrating which higher step you're on, you making it CLEAR which step you're on?

 

By not responding, I've shown that I'm also spiteful, and not indifferent, as I daftly think I'm doing? Correct?

 

Not saying you have to do that follow-up invitation like you stated you would... Just pointing it out. I think re-issuing it before deciding to send a Farewell mail makes more sense (and demonstrably represents a calm constancy in you) (not to mention sanity!) than going from, 'How about a drinkipoos?' straight to, in the next breath, 'Farewell', ...don't you?

 

Yea, it's true. It makes the goodbye natural, as if, look, I tried to open up to you, and you're still pouting. I can't deal with that anymore, so I'm sorry, but this concept of us being together is utter nonsense. But it is in my side of the court to do the follow-up, even though it was extended to her in the last convo?

 

Wouldn't that be like redecorating the entire house, downstairs and up, just because a friend intends to stop by for tea in your living room (with possibly a quick visit to the downstairs loo) for a couple of hours that afternoon before emigrating to Australia for a year or more???

 

Yes. Are you talking from experience?

 

Are you going to prematurely hand back to your heart in spite of its incapability or learn from that mistake and re-do things correctly?

 

I don't know yet. Still have that thing called paralysis. But what you say is correct...

 

Correctamundo - it's a Sine wave with the Sine moving ever slowly downwards psyche level by psyche level (I've worked out there are about 15 between full consciousness and unconsciousness) - or where talking recovery, upwards, but whereby there's a median/base position from which these fluctuations take place. You're doing it for yourself AND for her - be honest (BE HONEST) - and there's nothing wrong with that because you're PROGRAMMED to be motivate-able by other people (or else the micro or macro pack would break down); and the more you want them in your life as an enhancer, the more of a motivation they'll pose as. No, you're not in depression as your base position, you're not there yet ("ha-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha"). You've been mainly in Denial (argue, argue, argue), suppressing your Anger (like you were taught was safer to) and occasionally bouncing against the periphery wall of depression (albeit that's your natural visitational inclination, anyway), via Plea Bargaining ("I vow, I vow, I vow"). (Actions, mushtie, actions!) You've been USING depression as your aid (excuse) to procrastination, hence, reason for procrastination removed - miras! - you instantly chirp up and cease resisting and rebelling (well, for you, anyway, LOL).

 

I'm not angry because if I'm angry, my ex will just point at me and say, look, you haven't changed. I'm angry inside a lot, but it subsides now... I do have my eye on my ex while trying to get better. I'm assuming that motivation would be higher if I was more motivated to get her back!

 

There's nothing wrong with being desperate for the one you love and don't wish to see 'die'. It's when you sacrifice OTHER states, like self-confidence and humour, that it sticks out as a weakness despite it's bigger than usual quantity. Can you imagine being desperate in a "desperate 'n proud!", self-confident and humorous way? Try it now: write me a single-sentanced statement that demonstrates all three at once.

 

I need your help, honey, I just sliced my hand like an idiot trying to do something called "julianning" peppers cooking dinner for you.

 

It's simple: MUM likes to argue: in-out-bish-bosh-DONE (Down). Dad likes to sulk: spring-into-summer, cobwebs collect, Miss Haversham gets bored waiting, LOL (Up). You behave like mum and you get argued with. Behave like dad and you get marathon sulked at. Her loyalties are obviously divided (bad marriage). And because she's still a child, she still operates according to whatever her original pack dictates in terms of how to behave and when and for what duration. Do you think in future you could incorporate BOTH parents styles and without even trying? It's easy, by the way, it's called, DARING TO BE YOURSELF.

 

I'm no better with my folks, eh! And my ex. My ex behaved like my mom, I gave her the cold shoulder. I've become aware of it to not repeat it. Has she? I dared to be myself, and it worked, but now, for a second go-around, might be a different story...

 

Which shot was that?

 

Shot = insult. There were a few of them that night. She knows I'm OCD with being clean, and I get angry when I drop food on myself. I did it during dinner, and in a split second, she goes "relax, it's not a big deal. It's just food..." as if to rub it in. I said, "did I flip out?". -"No, but you usually do. I know how you are."

 

Holier than thou, much?

 

But if you fail to pay this forward once able to - woe betide you when the comes-around comes around, okay? [dramatically narrows eyes and wags index finger ominously]

 

Noted.

 

Here... serious question: Have you noticed you're in the driving seat with me suddenly? [wiggles eyebrows] How did THAT happen, do you suppose?

 

Because I took command of myself. Courage. Balls, whatever you call it.

 

(Uh-oh. Am now shoving you back into the passenger's seat.) No, THIS is the thing: *cousins*. (Is that a duuuh I hear?)

 

I still say, no direct intention. If she did, I applaud her. Perfecto, b*tch.

 

Just how many times did you 'leave' her?

 

4 times. Once before switching to my new country, and leaving her behind (Sept. 2011); the day she called me a pedophile because I said "Santa looks well accompanied with those female elves", - Nooksbridge, those girls aren't even 16 years old... (Later in the evening)... Ex: "At least I'm not looking an underage boys like a pedophile" - Me: "Did you just call me a pedophile, do you understand what the f*ck you just called me (I ball up and start crying)? It's over, that's the most insulting thing you can ever, ever call another human being" (Dec. 2011); Bed-gate (July 2012)- I had insomnia, and was on medication. It was horrible. I had to go to bed at the same time every day, and take this stupid pill at the same time. I couldn't dream, or sleep for longer than 2 hours. I was told not to sleep with my gf, but gf objected because for her it was imperative to feeling intimate with me. I said ok, I'll try my best. We're sleeping and she rips the sheets off of me as I was sleeping (5th time or so this has happened when we sleep together). Ex - "I can't sleep with this heat, I can't, get this off the bed now" - Me: "I'm trying so desperately to not be a zombie and sleep properly, I let you sleep in my bed when it's not the greatest idea, and you just don't respect me ever. It's just a microcosm of everything. (I sulk by myself, ex tries to talk to me, and I don't want to - gets me more angry). She rages, I rage and I ask her to leave my house.

 

If she wasn't abusive during the relationship, it's not your sensible side doing the screaming. It's the space your bigger b*lls should be taking up.

 

Humm. Why is that true?

 

That's called Quitting, being Defeatist.

 

I still think she's bolting back home... which makes all the less sense why she's contacting me.

 

Yes, what? Yes, worried her interest will wane? If that's what you mean: No. I meant, you're NOT worried *Newbie's* interest will wane. You're projecting. You're worried *your* interest will wane because you wanted Newbie now-now-now mainly as a jealousy-making aid and by the fact that she's unavailable now-now-now plus the fact that she hasn't given you any indication that she'll become available soon-soon-soon or EVER, your "interest" which you had convinced yourself was genuinely/purely romantic but wasn't, is understandably- not at risk of 'disappearing' but 'waning'. Specifically, being HALVED. Geddit? This is proof positive as far as I'm concerned that you are still TOTALLY attached to ex. But proof positive for YOU because (1 then 2-5 years) if you thought for one second that I genuinely believed you were suitably ready for A N Other at only 2 months in, Y'ER 'AVIN' A LAARF.

 

Well, newbie texted me, 2 days later. And you're right, her interest hasn't waned. In fact, more positive that most communication. I think you are right in the rest of the paragraph though. I'll admit it. But, it's ok to date newbie, no? I'm not doing anything wrong, am I?

 

WHAT doesn't most of the world realise when complaining about sex?

 

It's not just physical. A lot of it is in your head. If you're great with your partner in your relationship, the sex is better, irregardless of how many positions you do it, how big his johnson is, etc.?

 

 

Want to draft your follow-up invitation yet?

 

(a) Yes

(b) No

© Not yet

(d) Don't know/nee- wait, no, you can't have more time, you've had long enough (tho-weeeee).

 

D

[Nattersmatter]

I'm so paralyzed it's amazing... you mention mimicry a ton between a pair of exes, so I'm wondering if she's paralyzed too or not?

 

Synchronicity, not mimicry, but - yep! It's like this:

 

You spot and 'sniff' a basically super-compatible mate. "Yum-yum! Super Babies here we come!" x 2. You tie your ankles together (commitment and trust) using magic magnetic rope (chemistry glue). You take one step. So she takes one step, which applied in reality (via acts and gestures as well as words), hapens like this:

"I really like you" [step] / "I really like you, too" [step].

"You're really pretty, too" [step] /"Thanks! You're not so bad yourself" [step]

[week passes]

"I love you" [5 steps] / "I love you, too" [5 steps]

You're now, in terms of having increased your mutual feelings for one another, X number of steps up the three-legged-race track, with the magic rope having got more and more snug and secure. And you can extrapolate from there to further up the track to wherever you might clash and freeze or start reversing or to its tickertape ("I now prounounce you man and wife"...whereupon you both enter the 3-legged-race in the athletics league one above, to 'begin' again).

 

On the way are ruts, little potholes that twist the ankle some and cause pain and confusion, slippery patches of grass, etc. This can LOOSEN the magic rope (trust and commitment) and make it less secure (which can cause even MORE painful bending of ankles) but if the magnetism (chemistry) is strong enough, the rope won't actually come undone.

 

If you lose faith that you can stay the course or run out of puff, you start reversing. One of you leads in taking the first step and the other follows, step-by-step in the exact same way (despite your'e still looking towards the ticker tape if the love was genuine), experiencing the exact same terrain, but in reverse ....which makes the uneven and slippery patches, this time unseen, even more confusing and hampering and therefore puts greater strain on the rope whilst increasing its chances of actually falling off and onto the ground (game over).

 

So because you're in synch, when you 'fall in a hole' during that reversal, SHE falls into that hole, too (enter, possibly, the late night phonecall 'just to see how you are, blah-blah-excuse-excuse'.)

 

And I appreciate your compassion and that you want me to be ok and find love (with the appropriate mate...).

 

[holds out sticky, rainbow-coloured hand for tube of Smarties]

 

xoxo

 

PS: A N Other = another (person).

 

Not just when I'm upset... all the time. Hence the paralysis. I like to control every single aspect of my action, and think of every scenario in order to not screw up any situation that I really care about. I don't like uncertainty.

 

Nobody does. But a part of maturing is realising you DON'T just have only you to rely on. You're a leaf blowing in the wind (= God/Fate/Nature/whatever). All YOU can do is decide in which way to twist yourself AS you're blown around; you don't actually get any say over in which direction you're blown. Diff/huge life-changing diff.

 

In a relationship, you have to do 50% whilst the other person does their 50% (balance, overall compromise). You also have a relationship with the environment (owned by God/Fate/Nature/whatever), meaning you do your 50% (twisting around) and it does its 50% (blowing you about).

 

That's what going with the flow, means.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

The more you speak, the more I learn about things...

 

So, in fact, the more YOU speak, the more you learn about things. Specifically and more importantly: the more you openly and honestly confide/disclose, the more you benefit, learn and improve and lose your fear about disclosing and the further forward the relationship moves. Imagine if you fancied me? There you go. So do it with her.

 

It's a bit counterintuitive for me.

 

People always, ALWAYS confuse fear for intuition. So, no, it's not - it's countering your FEAR. Fear blocks intuition, which is precisely why in a dangerous situation (sabre-toothed tiger appearing over the brow of a hillock) that leaves no time for rational thought (as would incur the delay that would get you eaten), Fight or Flight takes over... you kill it or run away. Hence today's heros say, 'Well... it was nothing... I didn't even THINK about what I was doing [shrug]'.

 

It's not just Fight -v- Flight, though. There's FREEZE, too, aka said over-delay (RARRR!!...whoomph!... CHOMP-CHOMP!...gulp!...burp!)....Freeze caused by OVER-CONSCIOUSNESS - too much thinking, not letting go... too much control concertion over the natural self including when that natural self should come impressively into its own. A tug of war between conscious thought ("You") and your backroom-boys (instinct) commences and, both having equal muscle-power, neither wins... except Paralysis . You are tiger food.

 

So any over-self-controlling in order to avoid the bad sides of ones own nature, one also ends up impeding or blocking ones GOOD sides of Nature in the process (duuh).

 

Yet ironically enough, it's NOT "too much" thinking. It's too much to enable your instinct to do its job yet too little to enable that over-concertion sufficiently effective.

 

In other words: [a] if you're not going to be a control-freak, then don't be a control-freak EVEN ONE ITTY BIT, and if you're going to be a control-freak (because you can't help it), DO IT PROPERLY, or know WHEN to be a control-freak and when not whatsoever to be. Simples! (Si?) Choose your weapon.

 

It's the same with the so-called problem of "over-analysing". It ain't "over"-ANYTHING if- IF.. you do it properly/thoroughly enough whereby you break THROUGH the barrier that would normally send you round and round in circles (- ask Einstein, he'll tell ya.)

 

Do whatever you choose to do PROPERLY/THOROUGHLY and you will - WILL - succeed. So there's NEVER only "This or That" (in this arena, -v- , you can have and benefit by both. Like with any tool, just know when to use either by knowing which is appropriate when.

 

Sometimes it's best to keep it simple, as much as my ex tries to blow smoke in front of your face. Why does someone offer friendship after breaking up, especially when it wasn't a mutual break-up? Why does someone flip out when you allegedly restricted your FB profile? Why does someone still want to talk to you even after delivering the worst pain imaginable, eliminating someone from their life? It's because they have a need for you in their mind. Today's inconvenience is tomorrow's solution.

 

Well done!

 

Human created problem = Human solution (somewhere, just waiting to be found).

 

And on this topic, why was my ex still in contact with her previous ex during the relationship, especially with her ex hanging out with her family and looking for old photos and keeping them? I guess it's for the same reason as she is in contact with me. Her excuse was that it was 3.5 years and that's something you never forget and they she will always care for him... but she dumped him!

 

She dumps to make the man step up to the mark, that much is obvious. (Is her mark fairly warranted? That is always the burning question.) But the emphasis there, is on "WAS". Obviously there was a point, early on after meeting you, where she had more attachment tendrils suckered into the ex than you, meaning she was open to him coming back all new and improved to persuade her to get back in with him. That's fair enough at the start (except where they make you think the pair of you are exclusive). If, however, a woman does this all through the relationship, it goes to show you that you and she haven't developed as much trust as you should have by then, and she doesn't feel secure about you, your intentions, and whether you won't dump her at some point.

 

Analogy:

 

You have to cross a high wire between two mountaintops. On the opposite side is your lover, offering encouragement. Because of the chemistry, you deify them and in so doing, presume they're far more superior than you, including at crossing high wires. So they become your coach-figure.

 

If you believe you could fall at any point along that wire, you're obviously going to want a safetynet (other potential lover or lover-in-waiting) underneath you to catch you so that you won't get injured. (You might get cut somewhat by the impact of your flesh onto the criss-crossed rope but you won't break all your bones or die.) If, on the other hand, you know the ground below is super-soft and bouncy like a giant bouncy castle (you being okay with the idea of being single and solitary, even for if need be a long period), you need no safetynet. Same goes for if you think your coach is so super-adept that he could quick-flash, grab you before you fell or even (like Superman) fly to your rescue mid-fall. (Ain't rocket science.)

 

Those who don't have any safetynet, or who don't LIKE that safetynet (it really cuts in when you land onto it), rely on you, the coach, to inspire them with confidence and encouragement to keep taking steps accross the wire. This relies on the coach's own confidence in himself and in you as well as in the grade of wire and the ground below. This means if the once reassuring coach goes from 'That's it, you're doing great, keep coming, keep coming, brilliant!...' to suddenly going quiet or running away from his standpoint and out of view or making discouraging and non-confident noises, you're going to suddenly bring IN a safetynet where before there wasn't one.

 

Someone who's fallen badly before, however many times, and who therefore brings along a safetynet from the outset (your ex), needs a heck of a lot of confident coaching and reassuring. If you at any point pause your noises of encouragement, she'll freeze, frightened, to the spot. If you never re-start, she'll JUMP and take her chances with falling into her safetynet.

 

 

Ok. It's tough not to focus on the words, especially when they're portrayed to make you feel like she's better than she is.

 

I know. "Sticks and stones [actions] can break my bones but words [meaningless without actions] can never hurt me". It takes practise. (PS: You smell) (- no charge LOL) It takes remembering that Pow is just Ow in disguise. It also takes knowing yourself - strengths and weaknesses - so well that if someone says you smell, you'll either know you don't and just laugh it off or will know that you do but (because it's unremediable or because too many other people that matter to you like it) you've have accepted it thus are comfortable with it and can just say, 'Yep. Smelly 'n proud!' (which pees on their firework).

 

When she said, 'Are you obsessed with me or something?', you COULD have said, 'Yup!' and grinned, or 'GOD, yes!' or even 'Well, of course - what's not to be obsessed with?!'. Imagine the look on her face!? LOL What could she have said in response? Well, she might have said, 'Well, stop, then!'. But you could have just said, 'Well, stop breathing and I WILL!'. To that, she might have said, 'That's stupid, I CAN'T stop breathing', to which you could have said, 'PRECISELY!'. Game, Set, Match. But both of you winners.

 

You could have done that if you'd been operating almost wholly on instinct or almost wholly on control-freakery, one or t'other. But because you were both meaning effectively neither - feeling like saying something but too busy wondering whether you being obsessed with her meant you had to have a problem - you were paralysed (froze). See? SIMPLES! (Not that simple, actually, because whether you're a fighter, flighter or freezer relies heavily on your Amygdala, particularly its lateral nuclei (go google) but, creative license and all that for gist-getting purposes and so that I'm not sat her all night long, LOL.)

 

She is scared of me. Scared of me walking away forever. There goes a security blanket should she not find love before her patience wears out.

 

You think you've been relegated to being merely a safetynet already?

 

And that won't take very long with her idea of finding love. And yes, her words post b-day suggested someone putting up a wall, and you don't have to put up a wall if you don't care.

 

Correct!

 

You just don't even engage.

 

Correct!

 

So I serve some sort of purpose to these actions.

 

Hmm... If you were just a safetynet, why would she even ASK (via provocative statements) about whether you're wooing other lampposts- I mean women? If she needed you as her safetynet, how STUPID to even go there... to put the idea of other women into your mind or risk you taking what you might see as a hint to leave her vicinity for good? Error - Does Not Compute - You are not a safetynet (yet).

 

So, even though she's a female, I'm the dumper and she the dumpee, we are going to go through the phases and waves of grief in a similar manner? It doesn't seem to make sense...

 

See above more detailed 3-legged-race analogy.

 

So her refusing to grief... does that leave her permanently in denial and anger phases, or what is the typical consequence of refusing to grief?

 

Not permanently, no, because the mind won't allow paralysis forever thus grief is involuntary. She'll get dragged along whether she likes it or not but the issue is how much longer it'll take and how much more painful it'll be than necessary. If you're fighting it, you're not coping, in which case it'll hurt more and wreak more damage on your life (repression that inconveniently bursts out through other outlets even into other separate areas). Same as if you have to be bound by tight ropes for some unknown period. If you struggle, the ropes will cut into your limbs and you'll be distressed the whole time, plus because you weaken as you struggle you have less energy for working out how to free yourself as well as less mental concentration powers for finding that solution.

 

She's mainly still in Anger (featuring Guilt). But only marginally behind where Plea Bargaining starts (where you mainly are, as features Fear). Not a huge gap. But it does mean you're the Simon who says (if only you'd realise it and actually do that job whilst ignoring your fear rather than displaying it which only makes her (as you've seen at times) MORE angry and saying nasty things to punish you for that).

 

I like Smarties too!

 

Twins! LOL

 

Have you noticed the beep-beeps have thinned the outer shell since about 2 years back? Now it's so much harder to break the shell into two clean parts using only your tongue and teeth whereby you can 'hamster-cheek' them for crunching on after you've sucked and swallowed the chocolate. What BEEP-BEEPS! (Recession, innit.)

 

BTW - doing this with each, one by one, is GREAT for developing powers of patience and endurance. Sounds ridiculous. Isn't. You can also do a similar thing with Minstrels, M&Ms ("doot-dooooo-di-doo-doo!"), and coffee and orange Revels.

 

Plus, it also improves your BJs. [sMIRK, sorry, LOL]

 

The 13 year old brother is the adult. He asks, so why does pops sleep on the couch? And then, when he goes back to bed now, he asks, so you said your back sore, but was it ever sore for 2 years? I think the reconciliation in the family correlated to my ex leaving the household. It's definitely curious timing, weeks after she leaves, they get back together.

 

Yeh, but, no, but... I mean her dad is more like a sibling rather than a parent. But, HMMMM! - re her having left - INTERRESTINK! Split loyalties and baby barging her way in between mum and dad to stop their attempts to cuddle when together on the proverbial sofa, eh? Methinks your ex was used as a distraction-type focal point during that particularly difficult era of their marriage and got too used to it to get out of it, hmmm....

 

I don't have confirmation of this, but I believe, putting enough snippets of info together, that she did have physical confrontations with both parents. Shouting matches with mom, and battles of pride and stubborness with pops. They didn't give her very much freedom growing up, so she rebelled, but she had an internal limit she respected.

 

I guess they wouldn't have wanted their vital focal point wandering off too much of the time, eh.

 

It's like a chicken in a cage that runs around in its coop for hours, covers a lot of distance, but never leaves the coop.

 

Liking your analogy, there!

 

And after a while, the chicken gets tired and quits running. My mom and I never got physical, but I definitely yelled a lot, and when I pouted, I pouted for a long time (one time, I pouted for 4 months straight without saying a word). Christ, my ex and I mirror each other!

 

Gaffaw-gaffaw (Eureka!).

 

My pops beat the crap out of me,

 

(No, he beat the crap INTO you.)

 

so I played nice to him to avoid getting hit and even be smart enough to deflect it onto my mom (I would be angry at my mom, probably for stupid stuff) when I knew he was in a bad mood, but didn't mind because I had the mentality of survival of the fittest.

 

Mums are always the one to 'get it'. Poor mum.

 

I liked to rebel, but I knew what my limit was and I tried to push it little by little when I could. What I'm noticing is that we're more similar than we thought....

 

*smile*

 

I blamed my mom for not giving me certain things, or not allowing me to do things, or I would play the role of my pops, who would be vindictive if he was in a bad mood, and take out my frustrations on my mom, because I knew she loves me so much, and I could hurt her,

 

Which made up for the sense of powerlessness that dad had left you with. And because it worked on mum when dad did it. And dad did it to make up for the powerlessness that mum had left him with. And because it had worked on his own mum when his dad had done it. And mum did it to make up for the sense of powerlessness that you and dad left her with. And because it had worked on her own dad when her mum had done it.............. (getting dizzy yet?)

 

and that way I could get that feeling that if I'm in a bad mood, then she has to be in a bad mood too.

 

Misery loves company. (You kicked the cat, ummmm!)

 

My dad you blame for hitting you. And that happened all the time. If you were upset with one of his decisions, well, you shut up. Unless you felt like getting whacked.

 

Authoritarian parenting instead of the ideal (Authorititive). Control freak of the over-assertive variety (yelling/hitting) as opposed to the back-up method of under-assertiveness (pouting).

 

I got the template thing. So, anyone who's really insecure is going to want to keep that person around for a rainy day, or it's a battle at the saloon, where each one waits for the other to smarten up for the other.

 

Yep. Stand-off. You can force someone to your will by threatening them with too much (loss of self) or by threatening them with not enough (loss of them). Two sides of the same control coin.

 

You're saying, that if it wasn't for her need to seek revenge on me, she would've opened up to the idea of reconciliation ages ago, upon seeing that I have learned from my mistakes? Is that what you're getting at, or am I way off with that assessment?

 

Well done. But not just revenge. Punishment, too. And if you show (SHOW) you've learned from your mistakes - by not behaving and treating her in whichever ways that were wrong (by her standards and dislikes and possibly everyone else's, too) - where's the need to continue the punishment? But the burning question again is, Do you DESERVE that punishment or were these the sorts of behaviours that AREN'T alterable even with all the will in the world? Does she want You New & Improved or Different You (Not You)?...does she actually want to change who you are? That's why you have to ask yourself whether you were just being you in good faith or whether you were actually misbehaving, and where/when and how. Should YOU be improved or should your partner be swapped 'for a different brand, please, shopkeeper?'/ And if they were mistakes/failures/inadequacies, were they truly yours or were they only in response to her and who she is and how she operates and treated you (i.e. would you be perfectly acceptable to A N Other)?

 

My ex said, 'All your over-analysing has never really sat well with me'. I said, 'Were it not for my astounding analytical skills, I would, at times, have believed your intermittent, badly ham-acted ruse that you didn't really care nor value me, could take me or leave me, and that, all those other times when you'd behave utterly obsessed with me were the REAL self-indulgent drama-loving impulses that meant nothing...meaning, I would have left you AGES ago, meaning, you should be kissing the feet of my over-analysing in abject gratitude!...but the sad fact is, I'd rather NOT have to de-code you all the time to know which You with which word or action is the genuine one and, more to the point, shouldn't HAVE to be de-coding you in the FIRST ruddy place!'. That certainly shut him up but him shutting up was no victory to me. With hubby, however, I didn't have to say any such thing because HE would respond with, 'Wow, ...yes, you're right, I didn't realise that was what I was doing, but, hey, YEAH!...in fact, it's something I've wondered about myself loads of times before and-and-and...', followed by a really good "over-analytical" conversation for hours and ruddy hours about how we can act out, during which he would (and still does) come out with corking statements and eye-openers of his own that would get ME thinking.

 

I can honestly say that ex never got me thinking. I had to face it: Ex was too stupid for me. (Nobody "is" stupid, obviously; they just choose to be.) He couldn't be bothered to be more mentally hard-working and fit and didn't like that I *could* so he wanted me to be "stupider" like him, which he tried to achieve ("Fail!!!") by attempting to angst thus cloud me as well as make me not dare to assert myself and what I could see was the truth.... all so he could be LAZY and not have to be VULNERABLE...with me or with anyone.

 

FYI, ex would tell me BI-WEEKLY that he "couldn't dooooo this" and it was "over", only to come back a few days or week or fortnight later, begging and blubbing at my feet....aaand repeat.... Pretty soon, whenever he'd phone to "end it", I'd simply let him whinge and apologise as he dealt the "bad news", pause before answering....and then say, 'Aw, shuddup, BOOOOOOOOOO-RINNNNNG! Go get an early night and stop trying to take your moodies out on me, PTH! [click]". He'd then ring the next morning to apologise for the "wobble" and congratulate me for having, quote, dealt with 'it' in the best possible exact right way which was just what he needed, yadder-yadder-yadder. I thought, Whaddam*I* - your bleedin' MOTHER?! It wasn't the ending it-not ending it-ending it cycle that pissed me off (because I have a skin like a rhino). It was the fact that he even thought he could get away with it in the first place and that he was playing with what should and could have been an amazing relationship like it was just some drama aid and toy! IMMATURE!

 

So I dumped his arse. He went quiet for a bit...then emailed (I ignored) and rang (ignored).... and then suddenly sounded very different. Not different ENOUGH, though. I knew it, knew I should have waited for that Plea Bargaining to really take hold, but ....I needed a shag (I'm a nympho, what can I say? *cheesy grin*). So I got back with him too soon aaaaand repeat cycle.... So I didn't bother dumping (you can't dump a man who refuses to stay dumped and phones, texts, emails, drives-by, etc.), I just told him that he wasn't allowed near me for 6 months minimum, preferably a year - to sort himself out...and that if he BROKE that embargo, it would be over for good, instantly....and he could tell I meant it because I backed it up with a (actions!) LETTER.

 

But then - ta-daaa! - 1 months later Fate dropped hubby into my lap and the difference even at that early point compared to the ex at that early point was ...GNNNNNN!!!!! He tried the "It's over" flooding/quitting nonsense on me during our first humdinger fight (it is, after all, a man thing, yawn) but he could tell by my reaction (the cold hard look on my face that came down like a shop shutter - CLANNNGGG!) that he'd WHOOPS! gone too far so he immediately and hurriedly took it back and never tried it ever again....and they both lived happily ever after [roll credits LOL].

 

See - that was what MY mistake had been with ex and his stunts: LETTING HIM.... "and all because the lady loves Milk [rhymes with Tray, LOL]" (name the advert!). So with hubby I ignored not only my emotions as I was Simon Cowell-ing him but also my libido. It was Practically Zero Tolerance (aaand heeee LOVED IT, he said - wow, what a test in which to prove his prowess!). He not mentally lazy, dat man. The difference that makes the difference. He doesn't fight like crazy to get me back, you see. He fights like crazy never to lose me in the first place. DIFF/AAAAALL THE DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFF!

 

Don't blurt out that it's over the minute the thought occurs to you. Realise it's NOT over unless and until you sit with that premise for a good few days or weeks to see if the emotions dissipate and prove themselves nothing meaningful, i.e. don't automatically believe what you merely think. Don't play high stakes poker with your relationship like it's some mere toy and source of perversely fun drama.... if that's what you did(?).

 

So are you going to stop doing that with ANY woman, Nookie-woo-woos? Cos to a woman who doesn't have rhino skin, it's HURTFUL.... abusive. Or are you going to find that you CAN'T stop doing that with exipoopoos because, in fact, she's not right ENOUGH for you?

 

 

From your first post to me: last straw was a night where she was in a very bad mood the whole evening, and wanting to get some feedback, I asked what I need to do better this going forward for you because you always seem unsatisfied or unhappy; she didn't want to answer the question and it literally broke my heart right at the moment, took the weekend to think about it and decided at that time to end it instead of finding a therapist for help

 

WHY did it break your heart that she was too upset to be able to express herself adequately at that precise moment? Had she ALWAYS criticised but then refused to qualify why? HAD it 'broken your heart' or is that a euphemisms for, 'I realised at that moment that we weren't right enough for each other'?

 

Have you in any of your communications with her since the break up, even SUGGESTED couples counselling? Wouldn't that prove you'd learnt something?

 

I'm still super-sad and yet to regroup from everything. I would say she's ahead of me, no?

 

Not unless you were the one saying such nasty, nasty things to her face BEFORE she started with it?

 

By not responding, I've shown that I'm also spiteful, and not indifferent, as I daftly think I'm doing? Correct?

 

'Fraid so.

 

Not saying you have to do that follow-up invitation like you stated you would... Just pointing it out. I think re-issuing it before deciding to send a Farewell mail makes more sense (and demonstrably represents a calm constancy in you) (not to mention sanity!) than going from, 'How about a drinkipoos?' straight to, in the next breath, 'Farewell', ...don't you?

 

Yea, it's true. It makes the goodbye natural, as if, look, I tried to open up to you, and you're still pouting. I can't deal with that anymore, so I'm sorry, but this concept of us being together is utter nonsense. But it is in my side of the court to do the follow-up, even though it was extended to her in the last convo?

 

Sales psychology: "No" said THREE times before you end the call.

 

Yes. Are you talking from experience?

 

Nope. My house never needs totally re-decorating because I'm no procrastinator, I keep on top of things (gnaaarf!) ....hence I have an easier life than most. Being proactive is actually a perverse form of laziness: if you clean, tidy and spruce as you go (bit here, bit there, bit everywhere), you never have to do (COUGH!) one great BIG clean or tidy or spruce up.

 

I don't know yet. Still have that thing called paralysis. But what you say is correct...

 

Noted.

 

I'm not angry because if I'm angry, my ex will just point at me and say, look, you haven't changed. I'm angry inside a lot, but it subsides now... I do have my eye on my ex while trying to get better. I'm assuming that motivation would be higher if I was more motivated to get her back!

 

Well, mate, if you're still - even now - not motivated enough to get her back, i.e. if you're letting fear remain bigger than and trumping desire - game over, don't bother, grieve AWAY from the relationship, you're obviously just using your ex as a yardstick for self-improvements as well as doing that eked-out Farewell thanng.

 

"Iiiiiiiiiiiii've beeeen tooo Paaa-ra-diiiise, bud-I've.....ne-ver beeen to meeeeee".

 

Go and visit you, maybe?

 

I need your help, honey, I just sliced my hand like an idiot trying to do something called "julianning" peppers cooking dinner for you.

 

Bit too cool and cocky. Not bad for a first attempt, though. Try again, please, contestant? And this time, it's not about needing help with a kitchen implement like she was merely a cook whom you fired that bit rashly, nor based on a fantasy of having invited her to dinner and her having accepted, it's about the reality of how you feel about the fact you're not coping without having your soulmate in your life.

 

Examples:

- "I have a sneaking suspicion that my heart is still seriously in pieces. Please could you take a look in your hands and tell me if I'm right? (Ha-ha, not.)"

- "I never thought I'd see the day where I'd be thanking someone profusely for having shown me what a total fool I'd been. If you would like the opportunity to elaborate - how's about that lunch, now?"

- "I'm a bloke. And we blokes can be a bit stupid sometimes. Because, you were right. You always were. I did know it. But I'm a bloke. And we blokes can be a bit stupid sometimes. Because, you were right. You always were. I did know it. But I'm a bloke. And we blokes...(Press [your phone number] followed by the Hash key if you want to speak to someone about stopping this irritatingly circular argument.)"

 

...Something confidently clever (to show you're no longer head full of emotions whereby you can't think); something humorous to show the same (angsted people have zero sense of humour; something nonetheless poignant and sincere. Got the gist?

 

Alternatively, if you REALLY want to go for it - just collect up all the bits I've lately basically said Bravo! to and incorporate them into one long letter.

 

I'm no better with my folks, eh! And my ex. My ex behaved like my mom, I gave her the cold shoulder. I've become aware of it to not repeat it. Has she? I dared to be myself, and it worked, but now, for a second go-around, might be a different story...

 

WHEN (specifically) did you dare to be yourself?

 

Shot = insult. There were a few of them that night. She knows I'm OCD with being clean, and I get angry when I drop food on myself. I did it during dinner, and in a split second, she goes "relax, it's not a big deal. It's just food..." as if to rub it in. I said, "did I flip out?". -"No, but you usually do. I know how you are."

 

(I've just slammed on the brakes thanks to this 'inconsequential little' nugget!!!)

 

HMMM.........

 

Do you suppose you'd find life more fun and fulfilling, not to mention validating and enhancing, with someone who was likewise OCD-ish and whom therefore *appreciated* that very diligent side to you? Or someone who at least could relate to it and just LET you express your own irritation without irritatedly criticising you over it? See - this, to me, does smack of her trying to change your INTRINSIC self... which isn't do-able unless you self-suppress (which will cause YOU harm).

 

In fact, this is the second example of her bullying you in this one mail, isn't it.

 

Hmm....... maybe it IS your sensible side and not fear, i.e. fear FROM your sensible side...at the thought of you GOING ahead with winning her back?? I mean - this doesn't exactly illustrate someone who accepts you for who you are, does it.

 

What do you think?

 

Holier than thou, much?

 

Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaahh, mmmmmm............... Didn't bully you, you say...... HMMM......... Not sure I agree, now, sorry. Want to have a re-think?

 

Because I took command of myself. Courage. Balls, whatever you call it.

 

Yes (tick!). But despite you do need to increase your skill at fearing fear and doing it anyway, perhaps you SHOULDN'T be directing that art at *her*????

 

I still say, no direct intention. If she did, I applaud her. Perfecto, b*tch.

 

Ooh! I say! Where did THAT come from? And, can I hear some more of that honesty, please?

 

4 times.

 

Oh. Is that all? That's not a lot (not for a bloke, I mean). It's still not clever, but that's quite mild, really.

 

Once before switching to my new country, and leaving her behind (Sept. 2011); the day she called me a pedophile because I said "Santa looks well accompanied with those female elves", - Nooksbridge, those girls aren't even 16 years old... (Later in the evening)... Ex: "At least I'm not looking an underage boys like a pedophile" - Me: "Did you just call me a pedophile, do you understand what the f*ck you just called me (I ball up and start crying)? It's over, that's the most insulting thing you can ever, ever call another human being"

 

Right! Stop right there! Cos I'm with you! Yes, that is crossing a line. (Didn't bully you - FOR GOODNESS' SAKE!)

 

(Dec. 2011); Bed-gate (July 2012)- I had insomnia, and was on medication. It was horrible. I had to go to bed at the same time every day, and take this stupid pill at the same time. I couldn't dream, or sleep for longer than 2 hours. I was told not to sleep with my gf, but gf objected because for her it was imperative to feeling intimate with me.

 

AAARGHCH!

 

I said ok, I'll try my best. We're sleeping and she rips the sheets off of me as I was sleeping (5th time or so this has happened when we sleep together). Ex - "I can't sleep with this heat, I can't, get this off the bed now" - Me: "I'm trying so desperately to not be a zombie and sleep properly, I let you sleep in my bed when it's not the greatest idea, and you just don't respect me ever. It's just a microcosm of everything. (I sulk by myself, ex tries to talk to me, and I don't want to - gets me more angry). She rages, I rage and I ask her to leave my house.

 

THANK-YOU FOR THIS (finally!). Nookbridge, I suddenly do NOT want to help you get this woman back! I do not like her, Sam-I-Am... not in a plane, not in the rain, not kept in a jar, not locked in the boot of my effing car, I DO NOT LIKE HER, SAM-I-AM. "Me, me, me, me, me, All About Me!" Even when it's so legitimately about you!!! That's not you 'sulking', Nookie - that's DESPAIR AND *GENUINE* HELPLESSNESS. It's like she doesn't have a nurturing bone in her body!! What the eff do you want HER back for??? Seriously - why??? Write me a list of all the reasons, puh-LEASE!

 

Well, newbie texted me, 2 days later. And you're right, her interest hasn't waned. In fact, more positive that most communication. I think you are right in the rest of the paragraph though. I'll admit it. But, it's ok to date newbie, no? I'm not doing anything wrong, am I?

 

PFFFFFFF, WHAT? - NO, YOU'RE NOT WRONG - GO FOR IT - JEEZ, GET AWAY FROM THAT HORRID EX!!!

 

Why didn't you realise how Not On all that self-centred selfishness and total anti-consideration of your needs and feelings was? And before you tell me she had her 'nice' side - I don't CARE!...It can't be THAT nice or she couldn't fall from there under ANY provocation or irritation or vexation to such an incredible DEPTH!

 

Why didn't you realise?

 

Oh - wait - course....Cos it was what you were USED to?

 

Oh, my god. I'm 'speechless'.

 

RSvPEEE, Nookbridge!

 

xoxo

 

 

PS:

It's not just physical. A lot of it is in your head. If you're great with your partner in your relationship, the sex is better, irregardless of how many positions you do it, how big his johnson is, etc.?"

 

Yep. Never a truer word spoken. And yet ex WASN'T that 'good', was she? You said so yourself. (And now we know why.)

 

D

 

FLIPPIN' *GOOD*!!!

 

 

(Blimey. The truth comes out in the end, doesn't it, eh? I should flippin' cocoa!)

[Nattersmatter]

Know what this was? A prime case of, 'So s/he loves me. Great. But WHAT loves me?'. In your case, a spoiled baby bully loved you. She loves you, alright, but she's been taught the ill version of love by the sounds of it. So hers is the kind of love that makes you ill.

 

You've been unable to cope with the intense grief (because you are particularly sensitive and deep-feeling) so have sought to reverse the pain which called unavoidably for deifying her in memoriam. But your 'feet' - who've all along known the REAL deal - haven't let you move or move properly in the getting-her-back campaign.

 

It's really hard to tell whether feet that won't move are being stopped by fear or plain old sensible instinct but...thank god I know how to have patience and gain trust so that someone unused to baring all, like you, would eventually spill the truth, because - ugh... I shudder to think, if our paths hadn't crossed, mush.

 

MYYY GOD! If that had been ME, with MY doctor having told me to sleep alone and-.... well, put it this way, I wouldn't have been quite as polite as *you*!

 

Mate, you need to dump the duds sooner...cos that can't have been the first time she'd revealed her self-centred colours like that, right? Don't try to fix what is not worth fixing. *I* had to learn that lesson, too. Not when I was younger, pre-marriage, but with my rebound ex (the on-off one described above). That was a first for me, practical-wise. I'd just been through a horrendously long divorce where I had to keep constantly on my toes as well as try to prevent son from being damaged in the process (wasband acted up even all over the solicitors and courts, not to mention son) so I was for, I think, the first time in my life, UTTERLY KNACKERED... hence I couldn't really be a*sed to dump the ex and keep him dumped...and that's about the size of it. When you're worn down already, you haven't got the oomph to deal effectively with nonsense. You mainly try to do it all with only your mouth. And, of course, they just wear you down MORE, even IF they can't actually get the better of you, because your weak is still other people's strong and your clouded is still other people's clever (certainly compared to THEM). Those types are predators, you see. They WANT someone who they believe is weakened... so that they get to feel strong and clever by comparison and, for once, have the upper hand. They are the bullied who can't bounce back using their own steam...They can only bounce back by bullying someone *else*.

 

Be honest - were you worn down and knackered when you met her? Or was SHE the one who knackered you to that degree?

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Nattersmatter, this is heavy. Really heavy. Made me cry. I'm going to a need a few hours to write a reply back...

[nookbridge]

I like that analogy. Two things immediately flashed into my head though. I don't think you need to comment back on them, unless there's something that screams at you. Your other two posts carry more punch. I don't know if I could believe my ex is falling through the same inability to escape this loop. Her only worry at the moment is that she'll never ever fall in love with anyone after this (her words). And then the other worry is that she's kind of f*cked her life up, moving to another country, working as an au pair at her age, while trying to learn the language in this country in the time she's here so she can grab one of the many jobs available in the area she wants to work in, but don't exist in her home country. She's struggling mightily (more like not putting in the effort, IMO) and she's stuck in a dilemma, considering her visa ends at the end of the year. I truly don't think she gives a s*it about me, really. She's partying as hard as possible with 18, 19 and 20 year olds (she's 25 going on 26), going to "meat markets" and not the more interesting bars in the city and all the pictures that cross by me scream "give me attention, I desperately need ATTENTION!" I shouldn't be worried about this stuff and IGNORE it... I know that I'm killing myself. I just feel this enormous responsibility that I f*cked up her life, considering I did do some convincing for her to come here. At the beginning she said she did it for herself, to not put the pressure on me, but then any time there's a dispute, or now that we've broken up, it's thrown in my face, that so few people would do this for love, I'm doing/did everything for you, and this is how you treat me, etc.

 

The second thing was about working on your relationship and doing work. I remember distinctly a conversation I had with my ex in mid-Sept. after I asked her to take me back, and she said give me two weeks to breath. Three days later, she messaged me to see if I was ok, but it was in a condescending tone, something along the lines "So you blocked me on Whatsapp again, I just wanted to see if you are ok, but you'll never learn sweetheart". We exchanged a few messages, but her tone was really condescending, so the next day I speak up, saying to cut it out, either talk to me with respect or don't do it all! We have a conversation, and at one point I tell her that I'm working as hard as possible to deal with my problems, because I realize I made the biggest f*ck up ever throwing it all away. Her reply was that "you shouldn't have to work on relationships. Is that how it is in Canada? The only things worth keeping are the ones you have to work on?"

[Nattersmatter]

I have to logg off, which is just as well considering you sound like you've just let a whole load of reality in and illusion and self-delusion out, hence the shedding of tears in reaction... You need more time for everything to 'settle' and take root.

 

Back on tomorrow. (Sorry - weekend evenings are difficult because hubby wants Together Time and my exclusive attention (which is fairenoughski, and so do I).)

 

Why don't you meantime invite Sarah onto your thread or have another look at hers and have a chat about 'stuff'? You and she, despite the details differ, have a lot in common. A LOT in common.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Ha-ha - scratch that! - gender bias or WHAT!.... I just told hubster that I'd told you you'd have to wait until tomorrow, now, because it's Us Time and he said (he's French, btw), 'O! - zat man you 'elping? O, no, s'okay if you want give him 10 more meeneets (minutes)?' So you have my hubbie's permission and approval...

[Nattersmatter]

No, she DOES give a **** about you, as I've proven with pointing out the evidence to you. But it's about what her love is LIKE thus whether it's not WORTH trying to get back. Her is evidently not healthy.

 

To her, the idea of love is clearly a self-servicing concept rather than a sharing/caring one. Seriously, as aside from all those other examples you gave, if my husband/then-bf had told me the doctor recommended he sleep alone, with me knowing already he'd been suffering with insomnia, my response would have been not only accepting and supportive but ENCOURAGING. In fact, even if he'd been the one to cave and change his mind, I'd have said, 'Nope - do as the doctor says. I'll just have to cope sleeping by myself for once; won't kill me, will it'. And I know-FULL-know his attitude, were I the one who needed that TLC, would be exactly the same. Because true love is where you CARE about someone and care FOR them, and vice versa, not take-take-take in however much exclusively an attitude of loving them because of how in what myriad ways they make YOU feel so great! So "it's love, Jim, but not as we know it".

 

Do you see the difference?

 

And, even if she'd been UPSET at the time - as I explained, in order to behave selfishly and nastily to the power of Minus 8 - and where safely assuming your couples co-provocation as featured on those occasions were the normal run-of-the-mill sorts, meaning a reduction power of only 4 down from your base mark of Niceness/Situation Normal aka Zero, she should, were provocation involved, only have been capable of nastiness and lack of sympathy/empathy to level Minus 4!

 

To sink to such a nasty, nasty depth, one has to have been at a lower than normal level to begin with. Now, that can mean they started out when they met you at a lower-than-normal level due to past upsets and resentment that they hadn't yet recovered from... or it can mean there hadn't BEEN any such prior reduction in personal calibre which means the person NEVER WAS that nice to begin with and nor could be. See what I mean?

 

You can't MAKE someone do something, whether by convincement tactics or not. They can only LET you. I presume you didn't "convince" her to do anything with an actual gun to her head? No? Then it was HER DECISION and just your IDEA. But to have accepted your idea means (psychologicall-speaking) that she had to have had the idea in her own head to start with in order for her to have thought yours was good. Understand? IT WAS *HER* IDEA WHICH YOU JUST POSED AS A RUBBER-STAMP OF APPROVAL OVER. Geddit? Do not blame yourself because Guilt does funny things to you...including has you feeling you were the one in the wrong over everything else even when you so weren't, meaning you must have been wrong and unreasonable to have ended it, meaning you should resume it.

 

That's all I've got time for (folks). I'll finish tomorrow.

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

So, in fact, the more YOU speak, the more you learn about things. Specifically and more importantly: the more you openly and honestly confide/disclose, the more you benefit, learn and improve and lose your fear about disclosing and the further forward the relationship moves. Imagine if you fancied me? There you go. So do it with her.

 

Or, she will take the information, and laugh at me (ie. get an ego boost from it). I remember her talking about her old ex, and her mentioning that he went to rehab and everything, as if it was "look, I wasn't the one that was f*cked up, he had the drug problem, he's the one who kept cheating on me and went back to his ex, he's the one who didn't have sex with me for the last 6 months of the relationship, he had to get rehab, not me!"

 

Biggest mistake was telling my ex about my childhood AFTER we broke up. I did it out of desperation after the first session with my therapist. Her reaction was "why didn't you deal with this before? I know it affects someone and your upbringing is fundamental, but you still went through with your actions, I'm hurt by them and now I no longer trust or love you. It's not an excuse. Now you've got beyond the point of no return, I'm not in love with you anymore, there is no spark anymore and it's almost impossible to go back now. Go find someone else pure, whose feelings you haven't hurt. For me, there's no way back, no way to take away the pain you've caused me. But I'm happy you went and got help..."

 

People always, ALWAYS confuse fear for intuition. So, no, it's not - it's countering your FEAR. Fear blocks intuition, which is precisely why in a dangerous situation (sabre-toothed tiger appearing over the brow of a hillock) that leaves no time for rational thought (as would incur the delay that would get you eaten), Fight or Flight takes over... you kill it or run away. Hence today's heros say, 'Well... it was nothing... I didn't even THINK about what I was doing [shrug]'.

 

My intuition tells me NO. It screamed NO during the first date and she brought up the exes' stories. It screamed NO when I was introduced to her friends at a large dinner after the second date. It all seemed way too fast, like a blur. One of those summer flings I couldn't reign in. I let my heart go. I know it, I'm not going to lie. I come back from the vacation of a life time, I get a good vibe from this attractive woman, in my favourite place in the world, summer time, total freedom and no commitments to anything. But now, I can't let go. I have something in me that doesn't want to let it go. To be possessive of her concept. Or the fear of never finding anyone else that is superior. Or the laziness to go out an do it. I don't know what the connection is brain-heart that I can't snip. I've moved around and abandoned all of my friends in that place 4 times in my life. I lost contact with my dad for almost 9 years. You would think I don't have a fear of abandonment, but I don't know what it is. I'm not lying in saying that I want her back. I mean, I loved my ex with every bit of my heart, and there's no worse feeling that knowing you totally f*cked it up with one of the few people on Earth that loved you back and don't have to do it unconditionally. It just makes me feel like utter s*it, especially when you know that's not what they deserved, especially after they switch their place of residence for you, they commit themselves to you, etc.

 

I'm trying to be aware of my emotions, and some times I have this feeling like it's a redemption project, and I feel so, so, so awful about the way I treated her back that it puts priority over finding someone else. Like if I could get her back and treat her the way she deserves to be treated forever is the only way I can make up for all the s*it I did. It's something I'm doing now with all my friends and family that have had to suffered through my wild and wacky moods and poor treatment. One by one, I've called everyone up, told them what's going on in my life, asked them forgiveness for what I've done, asked them to not be afraid to snap me back into shape if I go there should it happen without worries, and that I'm doing my best to be a better friend/family member and that if it wasn't obvious before, I do care about them and if they ever need anything, don't ever be afraid to come to me.

 

So any over-self-controlling in order to avoid the bad sides of ones own nature, one also ends up impeding or blocking ones GOOD sides of Nature in the process (duuh).

 

Yet ironically enough, it's NOT "too much" thinking. It's too much to enable your instinct to do its job yet too little to enable that over-concertion sufficiently effective.

 

The thing is that I don't trust myself to naturally be ok. I have too much programmed s*it in my head to think that I'm faking being ok to make people believe one thing, and do another. My dad used to do this routine all the time. You would believe he's coming back to normal, that he'll be ok. He'll be nice and caring for days, and then BAM, he flips out. We thought when he went on medication for his epilepsy that he be ok. That lasted a week. When he had brain surgery to finally cure his ailment, my mom and I thought, great, maybe it was this that caused all the f*cked up ****. We arrived home from the hospital, and he was supposed to lie in bed for 2 weeks without moving. He asked me to get him something and sweep the floor. He had the gile to go behind me and say I didn't properly, and then took the broom and proceeded to beat me up with it, repeatedly hitting me in the back and one strike knock the sensation out of my arm for a few hours. So, yea, it's just that I don't trust myself. I know I can fall back in the trap because it's programmed in there. I feel sometimes like I'm faking it to get the attention or sympathy, or something, but I know, know I'm not. I don't know if this sounds bizarre or not. I can't really describe it any other way.

 

It's such a loooooooong journey. I know that I'm learning from the experience and I'm getting it. I'm aware, but it's just that it's a lot of stuff in my life at once. I'm trying to change for the better, and that's opening up my heart and being in general more contemplative and sensitive, and I don't know, I feel totally different. But, on the other hand, I don't know how to cope with loss anymore. It used to be so easy. I could just hide away from the world, be a d*ck and over time I would come back and everything would be forgotten. However, I care about what I did to my ex, and I miss her influence in my life, considering I sacrificed a lot of myself in order for us to work. Too much, now that I look back.

 

My housing arrangement also sucks at the same, but luckily that will change soon. I lived with a female who demanded everything be done her way, and she was getting over a break up at the same time, and was down right nasty with me, and just a lot of harassment at the same time. I lived a fresh dish of it on Thursday in court where she took 45 minutes to describe every bloody fault in me as a person, and this is why she should evict me immediately. I mean, she was laughed out of court, but sometimes I just wonder why these things happen to me! Anyways, back to the real issues...

 

In other words: [a] if you're not going to be a control-freak, then don't be a control-freak EVEN ONE ITTY BIT, and if you're going to be a control-freak (because you can't help it), DO IT PROPERLY, or know WHEN to be a control-freak and when not whatsoever to be. Simples! (Si?) Choose your weapon.

 

It's the same with the so-called problem of "over-analysing". It ain't "over"-ANYTHING if- IF.. you do it properly/thoroughly enough whereby you break THROUGH the barrier that would normally send you round and round in circles (- ask Einstein, he'll tell ya.)

 

Do whatever you choose to do PROPERLY/THOROUGHLY and you will - WILL - succeed. So there's NEVER only "This or That" (in this arena, -v- , you can have and benefit by both. Like with any tool, just know when to use either by knowing which is appropriate when.

 

Exactly. Or what is healthy "trait" and when is the trait "unhealthy". It's easy to say, another to do, but you're right!

 

She dumps to make the man step up to the mark, that much is obvious. (Is her mark fairly warranted? That is always the burning question.) But the emphasis there, is on "WAS". Obviously there was a point, early on after meeting you, where she had more attachment tendrils suckered into the ex than you, meaning she was open to him coming back all new and improved to persuade her to get back in with him. That's fair enough at the start (except where they make you think the pair of you are exclusive). If, however, a woman does this all through the relationship, it goes to show you that you and she haven't developed as much trust as you should have by then, and she doesn't feel secure about you, your intentions, and whether you won't dump her at some point.

 

Her mark is unreasonable, because once you cross her once, she pushes it up almost to an unrealistic level. You could be changed, but it almost doesn't matter. She has this block that is difficult to penetrate, and that's what makes it difficult after the fact. Her criterion for a guy is unrealistic, I think. I expect it to be the case that the ex is hanging around, but some events made me boggle my mind. We saw the ex on three separate occasions, and the last of them was to really stick it to him, because she almost knew he would be there in advance, and didn't bother changing the route to avoid him. The first time, they were chatting outside of a club, and she came back distraught, crying "He never changes, why is it so hard to be friends with your ex, he didn't have to say I was fat." He didn't call her fat, really, but it was more of her antagonizing the guy than anything else. I didn't say anything because I want to avoid the subject. The second time, she spotted him, and instantly rushed towards him, which was weird. She felt in a good mood because then her and I were going even better, and she could stick it to the guy a bit. The third time was the purposeful walk at him, and was basically to flaunt me to him, like look what I can get. She spent the next 30 minutes talking about the guy. I know she gave him a call before leaving the country and what not, but afterwards, it was more of this ex planting breadcrumbs to see if she would bite or not. Anyways, another good analogy. Her ex was her safetynet for ages. One that I'll remember.

 

When she said, 'Are you obsessed with me or something?', you COULD have said, 'Yup!' and grinned, or 'GOD, yes!' or even 'Well, of course - what's not to be obsessed with?!'. Imagine the look on her face!? LOL What could she have said in response? Well, she might have said, 'Well, stop, then!'. But you could have just said, 'Well, stop breathing and I WILL!'. To that, she might have said, 'That's stupid, I CAN'T stop breathing', to which you could have said, 'PRECISELY!'. Game, Set, Match. But both of you winners.

 

You could have done that if you'd been operating almost wholly on instinct or almost wholly on control-freakery, one or t'other. But because you were both meaning effectively neither - feeling like saying something but too busy wondering whether you being obsessed with her meant you had to have a problem - you were paralysed (froze). See? SIMPLES! (Not that simple, actually, because whether you're a fighter, flighter or freezer relies heavily on your Amygdala, particularly its lateral nuclei (go google) but, creative license and all that for gist-getting purposes and so that I'm not sat her all night long, LOL.)

 

I wasn't thinking rationally! I'm capable of that sort of reaction, when I'm completely calm and on my game. It just wasn't the case then.

 

You think you've been relegated to being merely a safetynet already?

 

Yes.

 

Hmm... If you were just a safetynet, why would she even ASK (via provocative statements) about whether you're wooing other lampposts- I mean women? If she needed you as her safetynet, how STUPID to even go there... to put the idea of other women into your mind or risk you taking what you might see as a hint to leave her vicinity for good? Error - Does Not Compute - You are not a safetynet (yet).

 

"But you should be getting lots of girls..." It's still an interesting reply. I think the one that showed the most anger, was the typical "... I'm enjoying this experience now!" line. That's the one that makes me doubt my therapist. It's a slight little dig, but it says everything. I don't think she needs to put the thought of another woman in my mind for me to do it, it's just like a go away remark, I'm happy still getting all this attention from other guys, but don't run away too much farther.

 

She's mainly still in Anger (featuring Guilt). But only marginally behind where Plea Bargaining starts (where you mainly are, as features Fear). Not a huge gap. But it does mean you're the Simon who says (if only you'd realise it and actually do that job whilst ignoring your fear rather than displaying it which only makes her (as you've seen at times) MORE angry and saying nasty things to punish you for that).

 

If I plea bargain, she just says, "no, I don't want that, thank you, I'm fed up." But she still replies, so that means, she still cares, just wants more reassurances or decisive action...

 

Have you noticed the beep-beeps have thinned the outer shell since about 2 years back? Now it's so much harder to break the shell into two clean parts using only your tongue and teeth whereby you can 'hamster-cheek' them for crunching on after you've sucked and swallowed the chocolate. What BEEP-BEEPS! (Recession, innit.)

 

BTW - doing this with each, one by one, is GREAT for developing powers of patience and endurance. Sounds ridiculous. Isn't. You can also do a similar thing with Minstrels, M&Ms ("doot-dooooo-di-doo-doo!"), and coffee and orange Revels.

 

I've played all those tricks, eh. My favourite is peeling off the candy coating with just my tongue (slight tongue melt, and then pick at it slowly) and also melting the candy to everything but the m (for M&Ms). It helps with a man's oral sex skills too, eh. I haven't ate enough Smarties lately (luxury item!) to notice the thickness. But, Smarties taste differently in North America vs. Europe, eh. Richer chocolate in Europe - people don't stand for crap like they do back in the new continent. And Revels, must be a UK thing...

 

Yeh, but, no, but... I mean her dad is more like a sibling rather than a parent. But, HMMMM! - re her having left - INTERRESTINK! Split loyalties and baby barging her way in between mum and dad to stop their attempts to cuddle when together on the proverbial sofa, eh? Methinks your ex was used as a distraction-type focal point during that particularly difficult era of their marriage and got too used to it to get out of it, hmmm....

 

My ex was a fluke. They were 18 when they had her thinking mom was sterile. They had no clue it would happen. Never got married, just kind of forced to stay together because of the kid, until POOF, another fluke 12 years later.

 

I guess they wouldn't have wanted their vital focal point wandering off too much of the time, eh.

 

What I always loved was how much she missed her brother and her family, and everytime she goes back on vacation, how much of the time is spent with them? Bare minimum, go to see everyone else. During the break-up, she went from talking to her folks more, to less. And she was always b*tching about missing them and stuff during the relationship, but as soon as you get your freedom from everything and become more used to living here, forget them, let's go party!

 

Mums are always the one to 'get it'. Poor mum.

 

I love her. She deserved so much better, but she never stood up to him. It's tough for us to relate though as people because we're polar opposites in so many things and have few things in common other than the fact I came from her. We still have our own trust issues to deal with. I didn't tell my mom about my ex until a few days before they met, post break-up at my place for dinner, because I was afraid that 1. she would feel betrayed by me after everything (long story short: my dad had too much of a control on everything, so I convinced my mom to come with me to Europe where there is their vacation home. I honestly thought that she would probably die in less than 5 years without me there. He would've killed her, made her kill herself, or send her into a psychiatric hospital. I would go to uni in Europe and she can retire in her home country like she always wanted to with her family, and translate hobbies into a job. We had to leave in the middle of the day, packing our whole lives in the car, while my dad was at work. We drove 20 hours to deposit the car on a boat, shipped accross the ocean, meanwhile we fly away. We stuck together until I took my sabbatical year 2 years ago. She's 100 million times happier than ever, but still, jealousy with me finding someone and then ignoring her - in hindsight, she dealt with it beautifully, but I was worried...) and 2. she wouldn't like my ex (she actually liked her a lot, except her first comment to me was "she's a little high maintenance, no? Does she give you a hard time??") Mom's know everything!

 

Which made up for the sense of powerlessness that dad had left you with. And because it worked on mum when dad did it. And dad did it to make up for the powerlessness that mum had left him with. And because it had worked on his own mum when his dad had done it. And mum did it to make up for the sense of powerlessness that you and dad left her with. And because it had worked on her own dad when her mum had done it.............. (getting dizzy yet?)

 

Luckily, I've had this thought already once before!

 

Ok, for your questions...

 

And if you show (SHOW) you've learned from your mistakes - by not behaving and treating her in whichever ways that were wrong (by her standards and dislikes and possibly everyone else's, too) - where's the need to continue the punishment?

 

To make her feel good. Or she's happier by her lonesome than with someone, she has a reward AND she gets to punish me. Double win for her. Charlie Sheen would be proud!

 

But the burning question again is, Do you DESERVE that punishment or were these the sorts of behaviours that AREN'T alterable even with all the will in the world?

 

Punishment doesn't help like most think. To the ones that punish, it really only makes egos feel better, at the best. To those punished, it's effective in that it's an extreme way to get a point accross, but good punishments are ones that make you reflect on your actions, and be part of the healing process. I don't deserve to be punished, because I didn't kill anyone, I didn't cheat on her, essentially, I didn't do anything that put her physical harm as a person, that would be deemed criminal. I did cause emotional pain. Now, if she doesn't think I'm worthy of being in her life, all she has to do is walk away.

 

Does she want You New & Improved or Different You (Not You)?...does she actually want to change who you are?

 

I have no clue what she wants, truly. I think the insults she makes are out of jealousy and hurt, and nothing else. I would say she wants me as I was before, except not to do the things I did before, but I think she'll have a hard time believing this is possible due to the things that have happened in her past. I can't really do much about that. (She once told me this beautie... "If life has taught me anything, it's that People don't change Nookbridge, and if they do, it's for the worse...")

 

And if they were mistakes/failures/inadequacies, were they truly yours or were they only in response to her and who she is and how she operates and treated you (i.e. would you be perfectly acceptable to A N Other)?

 

They were a mix of both. I think I started some things out of nothing (ie. re: what I did to my parents, if I'm in a bad mood) and some of the things were based on how she rubbed off on me, or how she responded to me. I would be perfectly acceptable to another partner, I know.

 

My ex said, 'All your over-analysing has never really sat well with me'. I said, 'Were it not for my astounding analytical skills, I would, at times, have believed your intermittent, badly ham-acted ruse that you didn't really care nor value me, could take me or leave me, and that, all those other times when you'd behave utterly obsessed with me were the REAL self-indulgent drama-loving impulses that meant nothing...meaning, I would have left you AGES ago, meaning, you should be kissing the feet of my over-analysing in abject gratitude!...but the sad fact is, I'd rather NOT have to de-code you all the time to know which You with which word or action is the genuine one and, more to the point, shouldn't HAVE to be de-coding you in the FIRST ruddy place!'. That certainly shut him up but him shutting up was no victory to me. With hubby, however, I didn't have to say any such thing because HE would respond with, 'Wow, ...yes, you're right, I didn't realise that was what I was doing, but, hey, YEAH!...in fact, it's something I've wondered about myself loads of times before and-and-and...', followed by a really good "over-analytical" conversation for hours and ruddy hours about how we can act out, during which he would (and still does) come out with corking statements and eye-openers of his own that would get ME thinking.

 

I can honestly say that ex never got me thinking. I had to face it: Ex was too stupid for me. (Nobody "is" stupid, obviously; they just choose to be.) He couldn't be bothered to be more mentally hard-working and fit and didn't like that I *could* so he wanted me to be "stupider" like him, which he tried to achieve ("Fail!!!") by attempting to angst thus cloud me as well as make me not dare to assert myself and what I could see was the truth.... all so he could be LAZY and not have to be VULNERABLE...with me or with anyone.

 

FYI, ex would tell me BI-WEEKLY that he "couldn't dooooo this" and it was "over", only to come back a few days or week or fortnight later, begging and blubbing at my feet....aaand repeat.... Pretty soon, whenever he'd phone to "end it", I'd simply let him whinge and apologise as he dealt the "bad news", pause before answering....and then say, 'Aw, shuddup, BOOOOOOOOOO-RINNNNNG! Go get an early night and stop trying to take your moodies out on me, PTH! [click]". He'd then ring the next morning to apologise for the "wobble" and congratulate me for having, quote, dealt with 'it' in the best possible exact right way which was just what he needed, yadder-yadder-yadder. I thought, Whaddam*I* - your bleedin' MOTHER?! It wasn't the ending it-not ending it-ending it cycle that pissed me off (because I have a skin like a rhino). It was the fact that he even thought he could get away with it in the first place and that he was playing with what should and could have been an amazing relationship like it was just some drama aid and toy! IMMATURE!

 

So I dumped his arse. He went quiet for a bit...then emailed (I ignored) and rang (ignored).... and then suddenly sounded very different. Not different ENOUGH, though. I knew it, knew I should have waited for that Plea Bargaining to really take hold, but ....I needed a shag (I'm a nympho, what can I say? *cheesy grin*). So I got back with him too soon aaaaand repeat cycle.... So I didn't bother dumping (you can't dump a man who refuses to stay dumped and phones, texts, emails, drives-by, etc.), I just told him that he wasn't allowed near me for 6 months minimum, preferably a year - to sort himself out...and that if he BROKE that embargo, it would be over for good, instantly....and he could tell I meant it because I backed it up with a (actions!) LETTER.

 

But then - ta-daaa! - 1 months later Fate dropped hubby into my lap and the difference even at that early point compared to the ex at that early point was ...GNNNNNN!!!!! He tried the "It's over" flooding/quitting nonsense on me during our first humdinger fight (it is, after all, a man thing, yawn) but he could tell by my reaction (the cold hard look on my face that came down like a shop shutter - CLANNNGGG!) that he'd WHOOPS! gone too far so he immediately and hurriedly took it back and never tried it ever again....and they both lived happily ever after [roll credits LOL].

 

See - that was what MY mistake had been with ex and his stunts: LETTING HIM.... "and all because the lady loves Milk [rhymes with Tray, LOL]" (name the advert!). So with hubby I ignored not only my emotions as I was Simon Cowell-ing him but also my libido. It was Practically Zero Tolerance (aaand heeee LOVED IT, he said - wow, what a test in which to prove his prowess!). He not mentally lazy, dat man. The difference that makes the difference. He doesn't fight like crazy to get me back, you see. He fights like crazy never to lose me in the first place. DIFF/AAAAALL THE DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFF!

 

Love it! I see some tendencies in me that your ex had. Like I think some of the arguments, I was toying way too much with the drama instead of looking to be the barrister, acting like I'm on the same dream team as my gf and that what we had is an amazing partnership, at times. I'll probably forever remember this story for myself [Thank god you replied to my first post, eh... because if not, who knows where I would be without this advice to put in my file cabinet for the future. I've saved our posts on my comp as a reference because there will come a time when I know it would be great to re-read this and get some things...]

 

Don't blurt out that it's over the minute the thought occurs to you. Realise it's NOT over unless and until you sit with that premise for a good few days or weeks to see if the emotions dissipate and prove themselves nothing meaningful, i.e. don't automatically believe what you merely think. Don't play high stakes poker with your relationship like it's some mere toy and source of perversely fun drama.... if that's what you did(?).

 

Yea, I'll admit that I did too much of that, although the last time I uttered it, it came at the right moment for me. I'll respond to your OP comment now, that it's most convenient.

 

WHY did it break your heart that she was too upset to be able to express herself adequately at that precise moment? Had she ALWAYS criticised but then refused to qualify why? HAD it 'broken your heart' or is that a euphemisms for, 'I realised at that moment that we weren't right enough for each other'?

 

So, Bed Gate happened one week before she went on vacation. She went on vacation for 4 weeks out of July and August, which was ok for me, because I was working on submitting a project for uni. I needed more me-time than normal to focus. In May, I told her that I thought we need a serious intervention with our relationship, because I feel it's not healthy, that I don't think I'm happy continuing on like this. I think I carry way too much of the initiative in this relationship, and you're basically holding on little a water skiier tagged along by the boat.

 

Prior to this, there were a few disagreements where we shocked:

 

1. I refused to tell her why I was super-sad on the day I caused 100K worth of damage at my laboratory by a freak accident. I just wanted to be left alone that day, and she took for I refused to open up. I told her to just tell her because I didn't want it to be an argument, and she was like, "is that so hard?" - Yea, I f*cked up s*it big time, I feel like ****!

 

2. That weekend, we were chatting in bed one Saturday morning, about to shag, and her phone goes off and it's a friend of hers saying to come over to their place, we haven't seen you in forever... she asks me if it's ok to go, and I'm like, you're free to do what you want, but I thought we were going to hang out today. She invites me, I decline and take this as my day to do a get errands done and we'll do something tomorrow. She wanted to come over for supper later, and I said sure, and she gives me a time about when to come. She comes 3 hours later, a little tipsy, and I'm mad. She wants to sleep with me (I'm on medication, remember), and I'm like, you're taking the piss out of me, no?

 

3. She went to a party at a friend's place and got drunk. She drunk texted me some not so nice things, and she slept over at the guy's house. I wasn't happy with both actions.

 

So, I sat down and talks things out. I made an effort to open more free time for her, and things were getting better. She wanted me to come to friend's places, because she felt that I was embarassed to be with her, so I said sure, if that's important for you, I'll do it. She left me a bit more on my own when we weren't together so I could focus on school. Great. And then came the night of Bed Gate. We went for a swim, came back to my place for dinner, but I remembered that I didn't have beer for her in the house. On the train ride, she made it known how stupid I was to forget the beer. It was over-the-top, considering she's a guest in my house. I insisted that I go to a convenience store (everything else was closed) to buy some, if it's that important, and then she didn't let me do that. It was just one of those AAAAHHHHHHHH moments... and then the bed sheets thing.

 

So are you going to stop doing that with ANY woman, Nookie-woo-woos? Cos to a woman who doesn't have rhino skin, it's HURTFUL.... abusive. Or are you going to find that you CAN'T stop doing that with exipoopoos because, in fact, she's not right ENOUGH for you?

 

I will never do that again to any woman. I learned my lesson. I was abusive to my ex by acting like that and I will regret it forever, because I'll always care for her and I have a special place in my heart for her. The problem with my ex is that my head kept telling me, she's not good/right enough for you, "GET OUT, YOU KNOW YOU DESERVE BETTER!", but my heart loved her. And it was a constant battle, and with each disagreement, my head took advantage of it to get a word in edgewise...

 

Have you in any of your communications with her since the break up, even SUGGESTED couples counselling? Wouldn't that prove you'd learnt something?

 

I offered to pay for couples counselling in the middle of September. I even offered to go back home for the weekend, where we are both more at peace and maybe the touch of being where we met, would be appropriate to relax and turn a new leaf and move forward. But it was too late for her, she wanted to be on her own and she wasn't interested in being with me at all. Wanted her space and all then. What essentially happened was this: post break-up, she had no one to turn to in the first few weeks. She hung out with me because she had no one else, but was in a really bad mood. As soon, as.... soon as she met a group of friends after September that wanted to party, she got some courage and said "I prefer them to you, and the attention of other guys, so haha, BYE!" The day that she sent me the "look, I thought about it, and I don't want to be with you anymore", she was hungover when she sent the message (so said FB), which is such an awesome touch to the heart.

 

Not unless you were the one saying such nasty, nasty things to her face BEFORE she started with it?

 

Nope, her things were unprovoked.

 

'Fraid so.

 

That's what I was afraid I would hear...

 

"Iiiiiiiiiiiii've beeeen tooo Paaa-ra-diiiise, bud-I've.....ne-ver beeen to meeeeee".

 

Go and visit you, maybe?

 

Haha. Fear vs. intuition, as seen above. Is it WORTH it? That's the problem as always.

 

Bit too cool and cocky. Not bad for a first attempt, though. Try again, please, contestant?

 

In comparison to your examples, it was impossible to match. It wasn't that cool and cocky, was it? In my head it didn't come off that way! And I didn't have context in mind either...

 

Examples:

- "I have a sneaking suspicion that my heart is still seriously in pieces. Please could you take a look in your hands and tell me if I'm right? (Ha-ha, not.)"

- "I never thought I'd see the day where I'd be thanking someone profusely for having shown me what a total fool I'd been. If you would like the opportunity to elaborate - how's about that lunch, now?"

- "I'm a bloke. And we blokes can be a bit stupid sometimes. Because, you were right. You always were. I did know it. But I'm a bloke. And we blokes can be a bit stupid sometimes. Because, you were right. You always were. I did know it. But I'm a bloke. And we blokes...(Press [your phone number] followed by the Hash key if you want to speak to someone about stopping this irritatingly circular argument.)"

 

...Something confidently clever (to show you're no longer head full of emotions whereby you can't think); something humorous to show the same (angsted people have zero sense of humour; something nonetheless poignant and sincere. Got the gist?

 

Yep. Too good.

 

Alternatively, if you REALLY want to go for it - just collect up all the bits I've lately basically said Bravo! to and incorporate them into one long letter.

 

Noted.

 

WHEN (specifically) did you dare to be yourself?

 

Ok, never.

 

(I've just slammed on the brakes thanks to this 'inconsequential little' nugget!!!)

 

HMMM.........

 

Do you suppose you'd find life more fun and fulfilling, not to mention validating and enhancing, with someone who was likewise OCD-ish and whom therefore *appreciated* that very diligent side to you? Or someone who at least could relate to it and just LET you express your own irritation without irritatedly criticising you over it? See - this, to me, does smack of her trying to change your INTRINSIC self... which isn't do-able unless you self-suppress (which will cause YOU harm).

 

In fact, this is the second example of her bullying you in this one mail, isn't it.

 

Hmm....... maybe it IS your sensible side and not fear, i.e. fear FROM your sensible side...at the thought of you GOING ahead with winning her back?? I mean - this doesn't exactly illustrate someone who accepts you for who you are, does it.

 

What do you think?

 

Towards the end of the relationship, she got more and more angry with my OCD-ish behaviours, because even I'll admit that I went overboards sometimes. But then she would go overboard even more with the comments. One time in June or July, I remember dropping some food on the floor, and I stopped my foot and grrred out loud to myself, and she looked at me and said "You scare me doing that. Honestly, I fear that you might be violent or something. You have to control yourself. It's just food." I mean, I get angry with myself, show my frustrations, but I don't ever take it out on her unless it has to do with her. I didn't think it was that bad at all. And then... after we break-up... EVERYTHING comes out. Every little habit she hated of me, she mentioned it. I think it was just to show her superiority at a certain point, and that's how I took it. I had to ignore it to not be mad. But the one thing that really bothered me was that she would mention at meals where there would be one of the foods that I just won't eat (another long story - as kids you have things you don't like to eat; my dad knew what they were, and made sure I had to eat them, or he would hit me; I would be forced to eat it, and then I would throw up; he would hit me for throwing it up - so some foods I still can't eat to this day). I felt like saying so many times, I have a mouth, let me speak, but I didn't want to be rude.

 

I agree with you, as it gets thicker from her on...

 

Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaahh, mmmmmm............... Didn't bully you, you say...... HMMM......... Not sure I agree, now, sorry. Want to have a re-think?

 

Bullying would be something else in my mind. It's horrible to think that someone you would love would bully you. I don't think she meant to though. Is she like my dad, where she has great moments, filled with moments where she wants to make you feel like sh*t? That day, she was right pissed off and jealous. There was that food remark, the one where she called my mom "Super-mom" because she wasn't invited to help me switch flats (post BU) even though she offered (if I actually invited her, we would probably still be together, but hindsight is 20/20). My ex isn't the best person to bring with you to switch flats, and I knew that the best person to help me was my mom since we're used to being happy/sad/frustrated with each other for 24 hours while working!

 

Yes (tick!). But despite you do need to increase your skill at fearing fear and doing it anyway, perhaps you SHOULDN'T be directing that art at *her*????

 

I've bungee jumped and skydived and I'm scared of heights. It's not fearing fear. I'm courageous. It's the mental block. There's a switch in my mind that I have to learn what it is and turn it off when I can't care what my emotions will say, I'm going to do it.

 

Ooh! I say! Where did THAT come from? And, can I hear some more of that honesty, please?

 

I still don't say it was directed at me. Not at all. But if so, chapeau, as say the French!

 

Oh. Is that all? That's not a lot (not for a bloke, I mean). It's still not clever, but that's quite mild, really.

 

Doesn't make it better though. You expend so much energy in getting a woman's heart and you just POOOOOOOFFFFFF like that, it's illogical, stupid, fill in the blank with the thesaurus. And a woman, whose heart you hold, doesn't deserve that either!

 

Right! Stop right there! Cos I'm with you! Yes, that is crossing a line. (Didn't bully you - FOR GOODNESS' SAKE!)

 

I leave class early because she gets out of work early to spend the afternoon with her, I show her a good time and POOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFF. She tried to get me to reconsider, she came back to my place, and I flipped-flopped the next day.

 

THANK-YOU FOR THIS (finally!). Nookbridge, I suddenly do NOT want to help you get this woman back! I do not like her, Sam-I-Am... not in a plane, not in the rain, not kept in a jar, not locked in the boot of my effing car, I DO NOT LIKE HER, SAM-I-AM. "Me, me, me, me, me, All About Me!" Even when it's so legitimately about you!!! That's not you 'sulking', Nookie - that's DESPAIR AND *GENUINE* HELPLESSNESS. It's like she doesn't have a nurturing bone in her body!! What the eff do you want HER back for??? Seriously - why??? Write me a list of all the reasons, puh-LEASE!

 

She does have a nurturing bone in her body, but you have a point, which is why I'm trembling and wavering all the time. You love, but your head is telling you watch out. So, yes, the first reaction when I told her this in person was that she was disappointed, and then I had to tell her it was important for me, and then she came around. But the guilt was already instilled in me, from the reply back. If she showed compassion at moment #1, I could live with it better. It made me want to invite her as many times as possible back to my place to make her feel ok, and deal with her need to be with me in bed. Each time she would ask, are you sure? I don't want you to throw back at me later on... [i never threw things back at her face, EVER, for the record - I broke up with her all those times and such, but never that]

 

I wrote her a list of 3 reasons why I loved her everyday for 3 weeks right before she came to my new country. I deleted it back in October, but there were some very good reasons on there. Look, it's hard to explain why you love someone. But for me, she's someone that enhances my enjoyment of life. At this moment, I can't imagine there being a better match for me. Being beautiful apart and her smile lighting up my day, she has a vivid and lively personality, spontaneous, and she enjoys adventure. We both have the same values (ie. conservative thinking, but in a modern way), mainly because we come from the same region (even though I grew up exclusively in Canada). We share a lot of activites in common and there's just a chemistry with her I haven't had with anyone else ever on this planet. Even better than with my best friends. But I just have this feeling it won't be a healthy relationship, as much as I would love there to be one.

 

PFFFFFFF, WHAT? - NO, YOU'RE NOT WRONG - GO FOR IT - JEEZ, GET AWAY FROM THAT HORRID EX!!!

 

What I fear is that my heart will be win over my head and not guide me to the right person... especially now. Or ever. If not, I'll just run into the same problem. I feel 100000% better as a person knowing my faults and being able to identify them before I run into more troubles. Now, how do I find someone who's THAT person, and it will work? Because if I leave it to me, I'll screw up for sure...

 

Why didn't you realise how Not On all that self-centred selfishness and total anti-consideration of your needs and feelings was?

 

It's clear that I did and I didn't. My head was saying AUS, AUS, AUS, but what can I do? I can't explain it! I don't know what you want me to say! I don't think I was any better, eh. I mean, ignoring your gf for 5 days, even when she tried to beat your door down, that isn't cool either, you know? But yes, in general, she was quite self-centred at times.

 

And before you tell me she had her 'nice' side - I don't CARE!...It can't be THAT nice or she couldn't fall from there under ANY provocation or irritation or vexation to such an incredible DEPTH!

 

As I said, she hung out on the streets, and you get that edge, or attitude from there. You do it to your parents, and you figure it's ok with everyone that crosses your path incorrectly. Combat instead of mediation. I f*cked up a lot too, and she forgave.

 

Why didn't you realise?

 

Oh - wait - course....Cos it was what you were USED to?

 

It's true. I should've seen the light. But that was then... I have a big problem now to deal with that is irrespective of this...

 

PS: Yep. Never a truer word spoken. And yet ex WASN'T that 'good', was she? You said so yourself. (And now we know why.)

 

You know what ruined it. You could tell it was not from the heart, she was disinterested and not passionate. You can tell. A woman who is in love with you is usually very affectionate when you're making love in ALL ways, and when she cares, they don't care about anything else other than you. Not in how good you were, not in how either of you look, nothing... maybe you'll give a pointer or two, but that's it. After the fact, hell YES, for next time, but not during. You lose yourself, so to speak.

 

Not so with my ex. I never felt my love reciprocated, that it was always more about the aesthetics. She never got me to lose myself in the moment. Others, in FWB-ish situations, have, without sharing anywhere near the connection or chemistry I had with my ex. It wasn't an exchange of love and energy and that wacky crap people like to talk about, it was very much one way, and it was me to her. It was definitely the best sex she's ever had in her life because I tried everything in me and more (talking, discovering, abstaining from some things and doing others, being more kinky, etc.), but I just couldn't get her out of her world. I tried to speak with her and reassure her that she's beautiful or that I love her or whatever doubt she had. I screwed up with the best ever comment BIG TIME. I just don't know. I just don't long for my ex all that much for the sex. But you should never, ever tell a woman this... that's a big NO-NO!

[nookbridge]

I have to logg off, which is just as well considering you sound like you've just let a whole load of reality in and illusion and self-delusion out, hence the shedding of tears in reaction... You need more time for everything to 'settle' and take root.

 

Back on tomorrow. (Sorry - weekend evenings are difficult because hubby wants Together Time and my exclusive attention (which is fairenoughski, and so do I).)

 

Why don't you meantime invite Sarah onto your thread or have another look at hers and have a chat about 'stuff'? You and she, despite the details differ, have a lot in common. A LOT in common.

 

xoxo

 

You don't ever have to apologize, eh. I TOTALLY understand. If this wasn't the thing gravitating my world, I would've let it be for Monday. But it's good therapy to write and contemplate and think, and the like. So, I've cried hard 2x this week after a month of nothing. Funny how grieving works!

 

And when I said hours of writing, I meant it!

[nookbridge]

I knew it. And I'm not saying this to make myself look daft. It's not about being daft or not. I just let my heart control me and my decisions. It just sucks that it's like the weight of the world of bricks is falling on top of me and I'm trying to rebuild my life the right way, one by one. It hurts that I lost someone I cared about. And that person was very hurtful after the fact. First serious relationship where I give myself away fully without abandon. I'll learn for next time.

 

 

 

I see what you're saying. I understand it, but I have fully enveloped it for myself, because it means that I was unable to detect that she was not a good enough person for me. My interviewing process went awry for whatever reason. I have to start from now being a better reader of people.

 

 

 

True. It's just not easy, because I care. I worry about my ex... I want her to be fine. It's just it doesn't help when she turns the tables on you to make you feel bad, even up to the last phone call we had, where she said "well, I guess you have to assume it's not your fault if you want to get on with your life", but in a tone that is, well, I know this is true, but I don't want to make you believe it, because I want you to hurt for what you did to me.

 

Thanks for the reply Nattersmatter! BTW - is your son feeling better?

[nookbridge]

I knew it. And I'm not saying this to make myself look daft. It's not about being daft or not. I just let my heart control me and my decisions. It just sucks that it's like the weight of the world of bricks is falling on top of me and I'm trying to rebuild my life the right way, one by one. It hurts that I lost someone I cared about. And that person was very hurtful after the fact. First serious relationship where I give myself away fully without abandon. I'll learn for next time.

 

 

 

I see what you're saying. I understand it, but I have fully enveloped it for myself, because it means that I was unable to detect that she was not a good enough person for me. My interviewing process went awry for whatever reason. I have to start from now being a better reader of people.

 

 

 

True. It's just not easy, because I care. I worry about my ex... I want her to be fine. It's just it doesn't help when she turns the tables on you to make you feel bad, even up to the last phone call we had, where she said "well, I guess you have to assume it's not your fault if you want to get on with your life", but in a tone that is, well, I know this is true, but I don't want to make you believe it, because I want you to hurt for what you did to me.

 

Thanks for the reply Nattersmatter! BTW - is your son feeling better?

[nookbridge]

Know what this was? A prime case of, 'So s/he loves me. Great. But WHAT loves me?'. In your case, a spoiled baby bully loved you. She loves you, alright, but she's been taught the ill version of love by the sounds of it. So hers is the kind of love that makes you ill.

 

You're probably right... dumb me I guess...

 

You've been unable to cope with the intense grief (because you are particularly sensitive and deep-feeling) so have sought to reverse the pain which called unavoidably for deifying her in memoriam. But your 'feet' - who've all along known the REAL deal - haven't let you move or move properly in the getting-her-back campaign.

 

My problem is the sensitive and deep-feeling part. It's from my mom. We love to a fault. You touch our lives and we care too much, to the death. But can you believe that I STILL (I'm writing this on my mobile phone as I'm taking the train to a nightclub) want her in my heart??? I don't know if it'll ever end until I find someone else. And it just makes so ****ty because new girl is going to smell it out, and then what? And the next girl?

 

It's really hard to tell whether feet that won't move are being stopped by fear or plain old sensible instinct but...thank god I know how to have patience and gain trust so that someone unused to baring all, like you, would eventually spill the truth, because - ugh... I shudder to think, if our paths hadn't crossed, mush.

 

I'll give you this much. You've been as valuable, if not more valuable, than my therapist. I've gotten into far more depth here, because I protect her as much as possible... you're not going to talk bad about someone you still want in your life. But, I'll still say, I owe a lot of weight to the ending of the relationship, and I REALLY f*cked up in this relationship as well. I should've left it as a summer fling. I shouldn't have been a douchebag and spoken like a man in the 5 day ultimate sulk-fest. She shouldn't have made past the pedophile comment or the "attempted b-day surprise/absolute boneheaded and selfish act surprise - see below". I put her through too much pain, and it can't, repeat, can't happen again. Actions, not words.

 

MYYY GOD! If that had been ME, with MY doctor having told me to sleep alone and-.... well, put it this way, I wouldn't have been quite as polite as *you*!

 

What else do I do? I'm only a **** in a subversive way, not to your face. I can be confrontational, but I do it in the coward/hurts a lot more being hidden manner instead.

 

Mate, you need to dump the duds sooner...cos that can't have been the first time she'd revealed her self-centred colours like that, right?

 

I should've known on the first date. Then when she invited me to her friends for that dinner (wayyy tooooo sooooooon). Then when she let me take her out ON HER BIRTHDAY to dinner 3 weeks into seeing each other, etc. Me = stupid.

 

Don't try to fix what is not worth fixing. *I* had to learn that lesson, too. Not when I was younger, pre-marriage, but with my rebound ex (the on-off one described above). That was a first for me, practical-wise. I'd just been through a horrendously long divorce where I had to keep constantly on my toes as well as try to prevent son from being damaged in the process (wasband acted up even all over the solicitors and courts, not to mention son) so I was for, I think, the first time in my life, UTTERLY KNACKERED... hence I couldn't really be a*sed to dump the ex and keep him dumped...and that's about the size of it. When you're worn down already, you haven't got the oomph to deal effectively with nonsense. You mainly try to do it all with only your mouth. And, of course, they just wear you down MORE, even IF they can't actually get the better of you, because your weak is still other people's strong and your clouded is still other people's clever (certainly compared to THEM). Those types are predators, you see.

 

Even the wise make mistakes... I guess that's how you've smartened up so much, no? I guess I'm lucky picking it up when I'm young... she isn't a predator. She just sucked onto me - your sparks comment makes all the more sense now (ie. sparks = fill perceived weaknesses in one, not necessarily a loving feeling - a loving feeling will grow gradually). If I can take any solace in anything, no kids were made, no marriages were made, nobody's lives are destroyed and I have time in my prime left.

 

They WANT someone who they believe is weakened... so that they get to feel strong and clever by comparison and, for once, have the upper hand. They are the bullied who can't bounce back using their own steam...They can only bounce back by bullying someone *else*.

 

She became worse as the relationship went on. It was so obvious at the beginning. Now, she hurts to hurt me. Out of jealousy... my life is not that bad, I'm getting help and I have strength to learn and love - and she doesn't. And I'm not being holier than thou, either. My major turn-off in her is her laziness. She has the golden opportunity of a lifetime, to leave a crisis-ridden country with a youth unemployment rate of 50%, to get a job in one of the most prosperous countries in the world in exactly what she wants to do, and all she has to do is learn a language - and there was a person who loved her waiting for her. Very simple task, and she just refuses to put the work into doing it and throws her hands up in the air. Rant over.

 

Be honest - were you worn down and knackered when you met her? Or was SHE the one who knackered you to that degree?

 

My sleep doctor still doesn't know yet what went wrong. I was the most extreme case he had seen in a few years, that's for sure, because I didn't follow any pattern. It wasn't that I couldn't just sleep, I would refuse to even enter the 3rd and 4th stages of the sleep cycle. I couldn't deep sleep, which means I could never rest properly. Before meeting her, I was on a 3 month vacation around the world, and the last week I was utterly exhausted - it was way too many hours travelling in too short of time (10, 15, 15, 13 hour flights + 18 and 22 hour bus rides in the span of 3 months, plus changing time zones continuously will do that). I was sleeping too much coming back. When we started dating, I would drive to see her at 4 pm and come home at 8 am. I almost fell asleep behind the wheel doing the route and twice (like last second oh s*it, there's the ditch OR there's another car ahhhhhh moments). After the second one, I said no more of this stuff, you need to start sleeping over because it's nonsense. The lack of sleep started maybe in Dec 2011, a month after she came. I don't want to blame her, but if you gave me honesty serum right now I would say this:

 

She put me on high f*ckin' alert every single minute of the day, plus the stress of school, horrible roommate and being broke in an expensive place. I had no place to hide and she ran me rugged enough that she probably did it.

 

"Attempted b-day surprise/absolute boneheaded and selfish act surprise" - I came back home from Canada after the holidays, one day before an important exam. 8 hour overseas flight and I'm dead tired. I need to sleep and I'm stressed. My ex came and saw me at the airport, and I have to admit, she was looking damn sexy that day. She had sexy lingerie underneath, which she showed me when we arrived back at my place - as part of my bday surprise. I was dead tired, but I understood what it meant - shag me, please! I did, but I told her I had, had, had to sleep and that it's best to leave me alone for a few days. I need to catch my sleep and study for exams. She didn't leave, and instead stayed with me. She witnessed a panic attack of mine from total and utter stress. It isn't her fault, but I mean, WHAT WAS SHE DOING THERE? And you think she would've learned... NOPE. Fast track 2 weeks later - her host family had visitors and she volunteered to give up her room because she would sleep at my place. Problem was NO ONE notified me. I had exams and I wanted to be left ALONE to study. So I was forced to take her on, or else what happens? One Sunday morning, I wake early and tell her I need to be left alone to study. She STILL stuck around, and then I had to tell her, I need you to LEAVE, like ASAP or else I will fail. Her, angry, finally left. Rant over.

 

FYI - you're the first person to hear these stories.

[Supersarahp]

Hi Nook hope you don't mind me gatecrashing your thread!

 

Just spent hours reading the whole thing. It's bloody 2.30am here now!!!! Argh. So I apologise if this post makes no sense.

 

I am far from an expert in matters of the heart (if you look at my thread that much will be obvious) so feel free to ignore my 2 pence worth.

 

I personally think you are too hard on yourself. Everyone in every relationship could do some things differently / better. You come accross like a decent guy to me - and one who has had a hard time (your dad sounds horrendous)

 

I am with you on the insomnia thing. I suffer with it sometimes too - it's horrible. I don't get it to the extent you do though .

 

I know it is not easy at all but for what it is worth I would not be wasting any more time and energy on that ex of yours. What's it been now? 6 months of anguish. Of course only you can decide what is right for you and I hope you don't think I am overstepping the mark with this opinion .

 

My ex (that is the first time I have had the strength to call him that) made me feel like I am a horrible person . When he said we were over I immediately took full blame. I even told my parents it was all my fault. Well with a lot of soul searching and some insight from nattersmatter I have realised no it bloody wasn't . Not saying I wasn't in some part to blame or that he is a bad person but realising it was not all my fault has helped me a lot.

 

I hope that you can find peace with your situation soon. Emotional pain is the worst pain ever (and that's from someone who has given birth 3 times )

 

If your ex couldn't abide your OCD then find someone who can. My ex was intimidated by the fact I was more academically intelligent than him. He hated me achieving anything - I guess it made him feel emasculated? (Is that even a word?) I had to dumb myself down sometimes - hide my light as it were and I thought that was ok and it was all part of compromising. But it was not ok! You should not have to change the very essence of who you are. So you are a bit OCD? So what? Find someone who understands you and loves you for you.

 

My next partner is going to encourage me to achieve - he will celebrate my successes with me not be intimidated by them.

 

Good luck on your journey and I hope you find true happiness with someone who deserves you and realises what they have and doesn't let you go so easily.

 

Xxx

[nookbridge]

An appendix to the last post on page 9, reply #90... I kind of skipped over more detail that should've been added... I was cooking and talking with friends at the same time and lost my train of thought.

 

WHY did it break your heart that she was too upset to be able to express herself adequately at that precise moment? Had she ALWAYS criticised but then refused to qualify why? HAD it 'broken your heart' or is that a euphemisms for, 'I realised at that moment that we weren't right enough for each other'?

 

So, Bed Gate happened one week before she went on vacation. She went on vacation for 4 weeks out of July and August, which was ok for me, because I was working on submitting a project for uni. I needed more me-time than normal to focus. In May, I told her that I thought we need a serious intervention with our relationship, because I feel it's not healthy, that I don't think I'm happy continuing on like this. I think I carry way too much of the initiative in this relationship, and you're basically holding on little a water skiier tagged along by the boat.

 

Prior to this, there were a few disagreements where we shocked:

 

1. I refused to tell her why I was super-sad on the day I caused 100K worth of damage at my laboratory by a freak accident. I just wanted to be left alone that day, and she took for I refused to open up. I told her to just tell her because I didn't want it to be an argument, and she was like, "is that so hard?" - Yea, I f*cked up s*it big time, I feel like ****!

 

2. That weekend, we were chatting in bed one Saturday morning, about to shag, and her phone goes off and it's a friend of hers saying to come over to their place, we haven't seen you in forever... she asks me if it's ok to go, and I'm like, you're free to do what you want, but I thought we were going to hang out today. She invites me, I decline and take this as my day to do a get errands done and we'll do something tomorrow. She wanted to come over for supper later, and I said sure, and she gives me a time about when to come. She comes 3 hours later, a little tipsy, and I'm mad. She wants to sleep with me (I'm on medication, remember), and I'm like, you're taking the piss out of me, no?

 

3. She went to a party at a friend's place and got drunk. She drunk texted me some not so nice things, and she slept over at the guy's house. I wasn't happy with both actions.

 

So, I sat down and talks things out. I made an effort to open more free time for her, and things were getting better. She wanted me to come to friend's places, because she felt that I was embarassed to be with her, so I said sure, if that's important for you, I'll do it. She left me a bit more on my own when we weren't together so I could focus on school. Great. And then came the night of Bed Gate. We went for a swim, came back to my place for dinner, but I remembered that I didn't have beer for her in the house. On the train ride, she made it known how stupid I was to forget the beer. It was over-the-top, considering she's a guest in my house. I insisted that I go to a convenience store (everything else was closed) to buy some, if it's that important, and then she didn't let me do that. It was just one of those AAAAHHHHHHHH moments... and then the bed sheets thing.

 

I make up with her that evening after explaining my frustration, I apologized for just ending it like that and she apologized for her actions. We remain peaceful and ok the rest of the week when she heads off on vacation. She's not in a good mood most of the time she's home because 1. she misses me not being there, 2. her friends are losing touch with her and not giving her the attention she thought she would get back home and 3. family is getting on her nerves.

 

Then, the gun shot thing happened. Totally rocked me mentally, but I was a super surreal moment. I went back home and thought, holy f*ck, that was a wake-up call. I'm IM-ing my ex on my mobile and she's kind of wow, that's pretty crazy, but not much else, because I think she went out that night with friends. She comes back the next day. I meet her at the airport, and knowing she hates fast food and the chances of her being hungry and getting good cheap food are 0, I bring dinner with me to the airport. She didn't really worry about the gun stuff, even though I clearly feel and know I'm not myself. She didn't notice. She complained about the food a little bit. She came back to my place, and instead of talking, she goes tries on dresses she bought to show me. I was thinking to myself, she isn't doing this. One question if I was ok after the gun shot, doesn't seem to notice I'm "off"... wait, until she tries to become intimate with me, and I'm in no mood, then she asks "what's wrong"! I just wanted to sleep and make a stand in the morning when things are calmer. I told her the next morning that honestly, we have to turn things around because we are way too "all over the place". I asked her what she thinks from her side, what are the things that make you think we're not going well - she says that I have to learn to calm down and just let things run their course, and that she doesn't feel that I make her feel beautiful and I'm not affectionate enough (ie. I don't say things like "I miss you" or "I love you" enough), and I'm too cold emotionally, that I don't open enough. I asked her she could be more understanding of my space, to not be so on top of me and give me her trust that I'm not being distant because I'm not interested in her, and that we need to be less competitive and find consensus instead of trying to win battles. We were really good after that, and the whole week we are looking forward to the weekend. A friend of mine came into town on Friday and he came to my place to have dinner in the like. Afterwards we head into town for drinks, and the one place in my mind was closed. My ex was angry, cussing out this country for this and that and not knowing where to go in this town. I said why don't we walk a little bit aways and find a bar along the main strip. She had uncomfortable sandals and said she might not make it. I said "let's get a taxi", and then my ex starts saying I have no money for that, I offer to pay, and she refuses to go along.

 

So, what do I do? Well, let's walk it anyways, and if you can't make it, we'll stop every once in a while. She complained the rest of the night. I'm in a bad mood now, too. I go over to my ex's place on the train, and we're chatting and ask her what was her bad mood, that we only see each other so little, especially since you just came back. I asked her later on the definitive "what do I need to do to make you happy" question, she refused to answer and I cry. Plus, I forgot an umbrella she bought with my money on vacation on the train. She's trying to console me and say "come on Nook, it's not a big deal, you need to relax, it's just there's so much stress". Then when I realize I lost the umbrella, still crying, she gets more mad about the umbrella. I'm like, you have to be kidding me. I didn't say anything, I just said, I want to sleep along the lake tonight, on my own. She flipped, said no f*ckin' way and in the end I pout on my side of the bed. I couldn't sleep at all that night (well, normal for me), I'm crying.

 

I go to the floor of the bathroom and sleep a few hours later. She finds me and asks me to return to bed. We talk about what happened the previous night when I wake up, she calms me down and tells me that I have to relax when she has bad moods. She wants to have sex, and then she drops another bomb. She stopped using her birth control method because it's too expensive to buy it when we have sex 2x a month, and she asks me for a condom. For me, 1. that's something you should tell me because we talked about it when we first being sexually active together (if it's too expensive, then let me pay half, for christ sake!), 2. why the hell should I carry a condom if I'm with you and we never use one and 3. you don't arouse me, then drop that bomb right at the wrong moment (not so important, but it hurt). I went out of the house to clear my head (or buy something from the store, as I told her). I was going to dump her the night before and I stopped myself. I was proud that I did because I caught myself, but man, this is just too, too much. Then this BC fiasco... it was just wow! I'm planning a three-day go away retreat for us in two days at a spa in the mountains for her birthday, getting all the details together to make sure it'll be amazing for her, and it's just shot, after shot, after shot, after shot at me.

 

I toughed out the rest of the day with my friend who came into town and my ex, and Sunday and Monday I chilled out to reflect on everything. I basically came to the conclusion that this is been long enough, and that it's never-ending. It never ends, this s*it. So I dumped her, two days before her birthday, but I had to that week before she left for another 2 weeks. I would've done it long distance, and it would've made it worse. In hindsight, I should've suggested counselling way earlier, but too late for that I guess!

[Nattersmatter]

Before I answer your latest (and ignore anything that's a moot point from you having already addressed it therein), I want to address this because it's symptomatic of a virus in her software (Nurturing/Rearing) (rather than, we hope?, one in her hard disc (Nature by birth):

 

 

 

1. Having believed she could take the liberty of a breather of 2 weeks before resuming talks towards getting back in through finding ways of this time staying in via discussion as includes negotiations-seeking, the next thing she knows is you've instated a block on Whatsapp.

 

a) If you did that deliberately, then, what you've got here is you not having liked that she even COULD wait two weeks because of what it said to you (doesn't care as much as I who cannot wait another 2 days, let alone 2 weeks!). She, meanwhile, saw it this way: if you can't wait even two weeks for me, and meanwhile have to punish me for having asked for that 2 weeks because it doesn't suit YOU, then you don't care as much as I who cannot resume in 2 days, let alone 2 weeks, without ensuring I'm free of over-angst first.

 

But you're the one who is in the right, here. Ones need to be self-controlled shouldn't trump ones need of one's soulmate. To BE a soulmate, you have to be prepared to let your partner see ALL sides to you - warts and all - because it demonstrates trust in your partner and in his strength of feeling over you being too strong for mere normal warts to affect it. " Won'tchoo LET....ME..... SEE BENEATH your Beautiful?" (beautiful-ness) are the lyrics of that current song that champions this truth.

 

A toddler trusts it's mum so much that it knows not even behaving like Taz of Tasmania could allow her to give into her otherwise natural urge to strangle the little bugger to death. Toddler is safe to express even its warts. NOT SO ITS NURSERY SCHOOL TEACHER!..... "Who, him/her? Naughty today? Oh, no - s/he's NEVER naughty, she's a very easy child". Mum thinks, 'Do WHAT - are we talking about someone else's child here!!??'. No, they're not. But the toddler doesn't trust the teacher *not* to strangle him/her when the worst warts get shown.

 

(I know this leads one to thinking she must trust you to behave like she's currently behaving but, sadly, no - she's protected by the fact you don't even HAVE access to her neck; she trusts the fact she's inaccessible and thereby impervious to being throttled.)

 

She doesn't (ref 3-legged-race) trust you enough. That's either because you two weren't focussing on allowing trust to cultivate because you were too busy luxuriating in the drugs hit, getting intimate ahead of intimacy's foundation (trust) or because she has issues with placing trust in someone. Perhaps she too often got punished for showing her parents her warts? Perhaps she saw them punishing each other any time any warts were flashed? Certainly if your pack is "frosty" - always remaining at a safe distance where warts are too far-off to be noticeable - that would pose as a ready-made givens-type of lesson without even any need for her to try it and see herself punished in the first place.

 

b) If you didn't block her on purpose, just by accident, then that's HER problematic misassumption where comes to what your intentions were and she should have ASKED whether or not you realised the app had blocked her rather than . This demands the question, does she EXPECT all such demonstrations to necessarily be deliberate and stemming from an intention to hurt her whereby makes considering if it was an accident not worth the effort? Are you her mother and father who makes their mistakes and whom deserves to be pre-punished? You're not, are you. So this smacks of taking her resentments over her exes (mum and dad) out on you, as well as demonstrates she can't even concentrate on you enough to see that you're not like them thus is not respecting your individuality.

 

But I myself would be interested to know HOW that could have happened accidentally? RSvP.

 

2. ""So you blocked me on Whatsapp again, I just wanted to see if you are ok, but you'll never learn sweetheart""

 

The point here was NOT to see if you were okay - like I maintain it never is; it's just her cover excuse for more genuinely seeking to service her OWN need, which was to get confirmation of her ingrained tendency towards negative misassumptions.

 

3. The next day you bring her below-table-dealings onto the top of the table with a SLAM! She partway plays ball but partway doesn't - this demonstrated by her lying about a fundamental truth of life - that being, that you make something of value that you want valuable by working hard for it and by having worked hard for it you place immense value on it (i.e. feel opinion-vindicated about that initial valuation). Example: a car that someone just gave you and in such a way that communicates to you that this is treatment you deserve as standard (ergo if it goes kaput you'll likely be given another one) holds less value than if you'd had to given a lot of yourself to end up with it. Even a car that it didn't 'cost' you too much (money or effort) to procure, you won't take good enough care of (think hire cars with scraped wheels and dented bumpers).

 

So, YES, DAMN RIGHT great relationships require work. "Relationships are hard, hard work". They just feel like too much hard work - i.e not nice - if your endeavours to work hard for them are constantly being un-cooperated-with, impeded, blocked or thwarted; that's when hard work isn't FUN hard work. Diff/diff because we beans ENJOY normal, hard work, men especially. Slight impediments are okay, they're a challenge that when surmounted prove you're EXTRA powerful. But actual barriers or 50ft concrete walls accross the path that end up making you feel the opposite to powerful? Uh-uh, nope.

 

So where do we think she got the idea that the OPPOSITE to is the case? Or did she mean, the work shouldn't FEEL like hard work but more like fun(because it should be possible to do using only one's auto-pilot without conscious thinking)?? That's not true, either... not fun alone and exclusively. It's (as always) a BALANCE between fun and demanding. So she's still wrong, so, where did she get that idea from that everything should be easy and on a plate?

 

Since she's STILL having interpersonal, interrelational problems with her parents (her exes), clearly that unhealthy relationship is not over, didn't get ended (whereby they switch to just being her friends). Her relationship with her "ex" wasn't over when you met her. There was always "another man" in the way (as has been the case for Supersarahp's marriage thanks to her ex2b and his 'mother').

 

Here lies a fundamental and highly crucial attitude difference between the pair of you. It could stem from different core moral settings (e.g. Thou Shalt Not Steal (because getting for free is parallel to stealing by the clearly tacit suggestion contained therein that you have to work for all and any things that you want to possess)) or it could be what she's forcibly been taught by her first meaningful relationship (parents) followed by (thanks to her negative self-fulfilling prophesy in the form of behaviour that tallied with that belief) the compounding of that lesson by her subsequent boyfriends.

 

Yes - subsequent boyfriends having been forced to fulfill that negative prophesy... Because if you "give a dog a bad name, you may as well shoot it" ....because it's going to live UP to that name seeing as how not living up to it holds zero recognition and rewards, as in - 'If I'm going to be punished like I HAVE committed that crime, ergo not rewarded for resisting that temptation, I may as WELL commit that crime because I have no need to have fear of some punishment that I'm already getting given'. And she MUST have forced that rotten script onto them or else she wouldn't still be making that 'you think relationships need WORK?!' statement in the first place at this late age and stage. (Logical, Captain.)

 

Damn right she's behind you! And not just in terms of working out the whys and wherefores and Nothing Personals of the bad patch of yours and her relationship but in terms of neither having sorted out the whys and wherefores and the Nothing Personals of her first primary relationship (parents).... unlike you.

 

OR IS it 'unlike you'? Or are you just going impressive-blah-impressive-blah with your mouth and have yet to back that supposed enlightenment with your FEET?

 

I'd say not because you've not been a clam with me, you've not been sulky or done any sending to Coventry with me (and I've deliberately pushed your buttons and given your skin a pinch here and there to see if I could make you react that way), you've not been slow to trust with me (couple of weeks - big deal!), you've not failed to demonstrate this new ethos of yours through other avenues (that I'm particularly good at noticing are the same attitude just expressing in one over myriad ways or the main way). You've been CAREFUL to trust, as in have measured out dose-by-dose your most secret, painful, thus hard-to-reveal knowledge - prime and most meaningful example, that she *did* bully you despite, simply, you wouldn't CALL it that - as got done like this: hint-hint-hint-slightly bigger hint-SPILLED IN FULL ONTO THE TABLE TOP. But that process is *normal* caution as poses as a sign (or one of the signs) of Intelligence.

 

If you can do it with me but not with her, is that because I haven't shown disapproval and punished you in any meaningful way the entire time and just accepted that you're You regardless of whether you could be tweaked and enhanced for your own future benefit? If it is, then, the conclusion is simple: She DIDN'T accept you for whom you were, which is someone *not* like her parents, someone who's got OVER the all-too-often bad and confusing/frustrating or downright what-could-be-seen-as abusive episodes of your first primary relationship (by having analysed it all and realised the intention wasn't deliberately to hurt you), and come out de-virused.

 

Perhaps for a while there you started behaving like her parents? BUT!... Did her parents ever acknowledge and apologise their errors and liberty-taking like you did? Maybe they did but unlike you, they would later prove it hadn't been genuine? And considering I can see she's well behind you where comes to getting over your first major love relationship (parents), my very strong vote is that if you behaved for a while there like her parents it's because she'd started TREATING you like you were the same as her parents. I.e. Reactive on your part not Intrinsic. The diff that makes all the diff.

 

Right Person (chemistry), Wrong Place (life station), Wrong Time (position on the recovery path).

 

The woman is wrong for you. She's not your ULTIMATE soulmate. She's one of your soulmates, yes. But she's one who isn't in the same place as you at the same time. Re-visit her in a five years or a decade from now and maybe she'd be totally different and ready to trust via the method of 'smelling' all your differences rather than having to see them expressed more 'palpably' over the much longer passage of time. But not now, not today, not this year, and probably not next year, either.

 

When she's worked out what was up with her parents as caused them to unwittingly behave like that towards she who didn't even have the means to leave them (never mind 'trust' and 'wouldn't') because she was a captive child, and from there realises that she treated you like you were the same just because when provoked you had it in you to produce the same behaviour (like everyone has it in them), albiet in your case only fleetingly rather than it having been your habitual modus operandum, she'll want to right those mistakes but won't be able to (because you, the performance judge (her Simon Cowell) will have been long packed up and gone already), you'll become her One That Got Away.

 

If she hasn't got it in her, you won't... or won't for quite a while to come.

 

Nutshelled, you made mistakes but you recognised them and asked for a second chance to show you could avoid repeating them. She hasn't even recognised her own mistakes ("you'll never learn, sweetheart....[and it's you who has the learning to do]"), let alone left her offer of a second chance on the table enough to be taken up by you, and let alone being in any position even to claim she could avoid repeating them.

 

When we're low (broken-legged from a long fall from the mountaintop), we're in a "wheelchair". We meet and fancy someone whom is also in a wheelchair. Brilliant!, we think... s/he and I can trundle down the path to recovery TOGETHER. But what we can't realise - because it's beyond layperson capability at that early point to be able to discern without benefit of time and demonstration of each other's surface and inner selves - is that your wheelchaired predicament is just short-term whereas theirs is longer-term or permanent (paraplegic). So you start to get OUT of your chair by X point and expect them to do likewise. But they don't. Because they can't. They don't want to lose the supplier of that amazing Honeymoon Heroin (and neither do you) so, whilst you're there futilely trying to coax them out of their chair onto their feet, whether in one swoop or daily, incrementally (so that you can continue being their match), they're there trying desperately to keep you in yours. They kick your legs... under the table (so that you go, 'What was that, who did that?!'). They can't risk you being 100% sure it was they who kicked you or you'd realise they were a nasty person whom you don't even WANT to continue sharing that Heroin with (the drug has become a source of danger), hence - under the table. Their aim is to keep you in that chair so that you never leave them.

 

Her telling you that YOU'LL never (NEVER!) learn is so that you'll stay seated because, if you believe you can't ever learn that's where you'll choose by your own volition to stay, isn't it.

 

But you'll appreciate that this fits too neatly with the psychiatric profession's catchphrase for descriptively nutshelling Personality Disordereds:

"I hate you (KICK! so that you)/Don't leave me!".

 

Irrational fear of Intimacy co-morbid (and clashing 100%) with an irrational fear of Abandonment. I love you but I can't cuddle you tightly and lovingly enough because my chair is in the way, but, Don't leave me!!! (Then give me a proper cuddle.) I will, I will!!.. come back!! (Okay.) -no proper cuddle, still- ...and repeat.... then you leave and "I hate you!!!"..... so you come back because I hate you is just anger and love together (which your inner animal *does* know and recognise), but if you try to FORCE a tighter cuddle, it's, I hate you!!! (you're too close, get away!).....aaaand repeat.... Push-me-pull-you relationship.

 

The difference between "a" Personality Disordered and someone who is experiencing personality disorder (reactive only) is stress/duress/crisis and whether it's not so ingrained it can't be recovered from or is too ingrained (got programmed into them from too young an age) thus would take a decade or more of psychotherapeutic and/or medicinal therapy.

 

But it's a very deeply psychological ruse that the chair is in the way and that the chair even needs to be there; the truth is that they daren't cuddle you properly because of their irrational fear of Intimacy. She's not a paraplegic. She chooses to sit in a wheelchair because it's safest in that she is therefore never expected to give proper cuddles. However, if a ruse to ones own self IS that deep, it becomes a case of "Is"... "Truth" albeit not Reality (therefore Reality Level 1).

 

Can she ditch that wheelchair? WHEN will she ditch that wheelchair? And what about you, meanwhile?... You need cuddles, everyone does. Cuddles are like a reboot (so that your PC doesn't overheat or attract viruses). You haven't got a self-lover (you) to cuddle you because he's too busy focusing on her to leave any time over for you, and you haven't got A N Other-Lover (ooh, double-barrelled, very posh, LOL) because you're too busy looking at "(you)" looking at her.

 

This means, by the time she comes round (if she does) or by the time you get sick of waiting and reach for another, you're going to be SO desperate for a cuddle that you'd pay/ sacrifice/do anything to get one!... including accepting unfair terms of contract, whether those are set out from the start or sneakily added in ballpoint pen as the weeks/months tick by.

 

Go to Newbie, go to You - whichever. But since (as your latest data shows) you HAVE tried to get her back into the ring with you, it's *her* who's stopping you from proving you've learned from and won't be repeating those mistakes which means (and this is what you most have in common with Supersarahp), she is the one keeping all to herself the re-starter gun, not letting you touch it, so let's not impede her ability to fire it by jumping around her trying to snatch the gun as forces her to keep switching hands and holding it out of your reach. Let's GIVE her that room to fire it and see whether she does or not. And to signify you're going to cease jumping up and down and trying to grab the gun from now on, you write and send that follow up invitation (based on the fact you "promised" to try her again when you were both less busy). She then either has to fire that damn gun due to being unable to blame you as her excuse for not firing it, or come clean (either under the table by more shilly-shallying excuses) or over via a straight statement that says, 'I do not love you any more even one iota and wish you would just keep out of my life from now on'.

 

Once you've reissued the invitation, you're effectively in a long queue like your flight check-in area airport one (bound for Cuddles Land). Will the queue move quickly or slowly? Don't know. But as it looks long, you're going to sit on your suitcase, get your brand new i-pad out (Newbie) (or You-Yourself-You) and in order to make you forget you're waiting in a queue, have some FUN with an app called Cuddles-Yeay! You never know, you see... what with the ipad (her or you) giving you lots of cuddles, you might well decide you don't want to go to Cuddle Land after all because you don't even need to. ...That's how it happens: Fundamental humanistic needs get met from Source B better than or even merely equally to Source A so the mind switches its associations allegiance from A to B. Result: "Who...??? Oh, HER.".

 

It's like religious faith, isn't it. If your religion (her) IS real, then any challenge to that faith (Newbie/You) won't be able to disprove it as an authentically correct belief.

 

It's up to you whether you want to re-issue that invitation or whether you don't give a stuff WHAT she thinks, let alone whether you're insane (invitation straight to Farewell) simply because she might not work out that you worked out that the invitation was a bad idea after all. I can't make that decision for you because although I've spotted data for working you out, I can't say with any certainty what SHE is like because only you told me (which could be purely subjective data thus not actual evidence). Only you know about all the OTHER stuff... the really tiny (to point of elusive) stuff that CAN'T be put into typed characters nor possibly even audible words.

 

By the fact that you're the one who chose and proffered the data on her, one thing is very clear to me: *You* think she's not right in the head/heart!

 

If you want to issue the re-invitation, do it like this: send it AND start to continue wooing Newbie. That way, the race is AWWWN. You can compare Newbie to Ex-when-newbie and vice versa to see, who is 'rightest' for you (and by the same token, who is damn well 'wrongest' or downright just plain WRONG).

 

This breaks no rules because you haven't declared exclusivity with Newbie and the contract as contained Exclusivity with ex got ripped up. You're starting from scratch with both where multi-dating is morally acceptable.

 

A little song I just wrote you (to the tune of Twinkle-Twinkle Little Star (or The Alphabet Song, if you prefer, LOL): Win-win, win-win, win-win-wiiiiiin / Win-win, win-win, win-win-wiiiiiin... (sing along, Nookie?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

(Great post, Sarah!) (She read the entire post before commenting, look, Nooks. ;-))

 

So, Bed Gate happened one week before she went on vacation. She went on vacation for 4 weeks out of July and August, which was ok for me, because I was working on submitting a project for uni. I needed more me-time than normal to focus. In May, I told her that I thought we need a serious intervention with our relationship, because I feel it's not healthy, that I don't think I'm happy continuing on like this.

 

So, then, you HAD suggested counselling. Clearly that had been met with a refusal (how telling!).

 

I think I carry way too much of the initiative in this relationship, and you're basically holding on little a water skiier tagged along by the boat.

 

Liking your analogy but I think you'll prefer this one: you're both in a rowing boat but only one of you is rowing, hence the boat just goes round and round and round... getting you nowhere but dizzy and disorientated.

 

Prior to this, there were a few disagreements where we shocked:

 

1. I refused to tell her why I was super-sad on the day I caused 100K worth of damage at my laboratory by a freak accident. I just wanted to be left alone that day, and she took for I refused to open up. I told her to just tell her because I didn't want it to be an argument, and she was like, "is that so hard?" - Yea, I f*cked up s*it big time, I feel like ****!

 

She's correct in this instance (so Cross! for you). A good relationship relies on open and constant Communication under any circumstance because it is the key to the keyhole marked Trust as gives access to the room marked Respect. This wanting to hide behind the rock to study and decide over fight or flight is a man thing - or, truthfully, a thing ("Well, you should have just punched him [best friend] back/Well, just give him a wide berth" - Dad), as opposes the little girl-to-woman thing of tackling the threat in order to convert foe to friend ("Well, don't just sit here grumbling, go and TALK to her [best friend] and get it sorted! - Mum.)

 

But mums are always right. Emotional areas, including caretaking/maintaining are part of mum's JOB, see.

 

So it's hard for you if you do what she needs and it's hard for you if you do what you need. Try 50/50 next time: [a] "This accident is a MAJOR mind-shaker for me, not to mention everyone else, so do you mind if I take an hour to sit quietly by myself BEFORE I give you the ins and outs?" Give her a good-enough synopsis with the promise of more after you sit quietly alone. [c] Give her the whole story and then have the quiet sit-down.

 

But you know realise this, now, anyway, right?

 

2. That weekend, we were chatting in bed one Saturday morning, about to shag, and her phone goes off and it's a friend of hers saying to come over to their place, we haven't seen you in forever... she asks me if it's ok to go, and I'm like, you're free to do what you want, but I thought we were going to hang out today. She invites me, I decline and take this as my day to do a get errands done and we'll do something tomorrow. She wanted to come over for supper later, and I said sure, and she gives me a time about when to come. She comes 3 hours later, a little tipsy, and I'm mad. She wants to sleep with me (I'm on medication, remember), and I'm like, you're taking the piss out of me, no?

 

Spoilt attitude. Note, it wasn't a case of acknowledging and redressing the fact she'd not consulted with you before saying yes, it was straight to, 'This IS happening but you can come if you like'. That's not considering your partners needs or wants, is it. What else could you do but decline to state your protest?

 

3. She went to a party at a friend's place and got drunk. She drunk texted me some not so nice things, and she slept over at the guy's house. I wasn't happy with both actions.

 

Yep - TWO big fat Crosses!

 

So, I sat down and talks things out.

 

Ah, so sometimes you DID talk things out? Well, if you do sometimes but don't other times, despite that's overall 50/50 it's too A versus Z and therefore takes on the label of Inconsistency.

 

I made an effort to open more free time for her, and things were getting better. She wanted me to come to friend's places, because she felt that I was embarassed to be with her,

 

Well, were you? Or did you just prefer being all cosy-snuggly alone with her? And if so, had you made that flattering reason clear?

 

so I said sure, if that's important for you, I'll do it.

 

Tick!

 

She left me a bit more on my own when we weren't together so I could focus on school. Great.

 

Tick!

 

And then came the night of Bed Gate. We went for a swim, came back to my place for dinner, but I remembered that I didn't have beer for her in the house. On the train ride, she made it known how stupid I was to forget the beer. It was over-the-top, considering she's a guest in my house. I insisted that I go to a convenience store (everything else was closed) to buy some, if it's that important, and then she didn't let me do that. It was just one of those AAAAHHHHHHHH moments... and then the bed sheets thing.[/i]

 

No, it's not over the top. Despite it's "When in Rome do as the Romans do", you weren't any old Rome or Roman, were you. Cross! for you.

 

So she proved it wasn't actually the beer she wanted but the show of consideration itself, didn't she.

 

She has her OWN over-the-top reactions, look. Not food spillages but thoughtful providing or not.

 

I make up with her that evening after explaining my frustration, I apologized for just ending it like that and she apologized for her actions. We remain peaceful and ok the rest of the week when she heads off on vacation. She's not in a good mood most of the time she's home because 1. she misses me not being there, 2. her friends are losing touch with her and not giving her the attention she thought she would get back home and 3. family is getting on her nerves.

 

Then, the gun shot thing happened. Totally rocked me mentally, but I was a super surreal moment. I went back home and thought, holy f*ck, that was a wake-up call. I'm IM-ing my ex on my mobile and she's kind of wow, that's pretty crazy, but not much else, because I think she went out that night with friends. She comes back the next day. I meet her at the airport, and knowing she hates fast food and the chances of her being hungry and getting good cheap food are 0, I bring dinner with me to the airport.

 

This is you addressing the fact she'd had a bit of a miz home visit. (Tick!)

 

She didn't really worry about the gun stuff, even though I clearly feel and know I'm not myself. She didn't notice. She complained about the food a little bit.

 

Wasn't there enough caviar for her Ladyships' liking? I get she was still peed off with her visit but, that doesn't mean she should take it out on you even when you've done something that sweet and thoughtful. Big fat Cross! for not tending to your obvious need and another Cross! for complaining about mere food! Maybe if you'd actually had blood pouring from your head you could have sprinkled some on her food and told her it was Ketchup to make up for the lack of Mayonnaise?

 

Jeez, how can anyone not be all over their bloke like a rash when he's telling her he got "this close" to getting killed or seriously injured! HUGE Cross!

 

She came back to my place, and instead of talking, she goes tries on dresses she bought to show me. I was thinking to myself, she isn't doing this.

 

SO AM I, PAL, SO AM I!!!

 

One question if I was ok after the gun shot, doesn't seem to notice I'm "off"... wait, until she tries to become intimate with me, and I'm in no mood, then she asks "what's wrong"!

 

Oh, nothing... just got nearly shot, that's all. Cuh-RIST. It wasn't a genuine enquiry, it was to say, 'What's there to BE upset about?'.

 

I just wanted to sleep and make a stand in the morning when things are calmer. I told her the next morning that honestly, we have to turn things around because we are way too "all over the place". I asked her what she thinks from her side, what are the things that make you think we're not going well - she says that I have to learn to calm down and just let things run their course,

 

Ohhh, absolutely, Nookie - next time you nearly get shot at, immediately pull up a sunbed and a Margharita and say, 'Well, that was interesting'. (Scuse sarcasm but WHAT THE-!?!*??)

 

and that she doesn't feel that I make her feel beautiful and I'm not affectionate enough (ie. I don't say things like "I miss you" or "I love you" enough), and I'm too cold emotionally, that I don't open enough.

 

You've just had a near miss and she thinks THIS takes priority? Again - WHAT THE-?!*?

 

But, hey - little exercise for ya: Imagine she was a 6 years old. Her behaviour's perfectly logical and acceptable, now, isn't it. Nuff said.

 

I asked her she could be more understanding of my space, to not be so on top of me and give me her trust that I'm not being distant because I'm not interested in her, and that we need to be less competitive and find consensus instead of trying to win battles. We were really good after that,

 

Yeah. Because you'd reassured HER.

 

and the whole week we are looking forward to the weekend. A friend of mine came into town on Friday and he came to my place to have dinner in the like.

 

Had you sought her agreement?

 

Am I right in thinking ("you did it so I'm going to do the same") you didn't consult hence that put her into a bad mood, hence next we have....

 

Afterwards we head into town for drinks, and the one place in my mind was closed. My ex was angry, cussing out this country for this and that and not knowing where to go in this town. I said why don't we walk a little bit aways and find a bar along the main strip. She had uncomfortable sandals and said she might not make it. I said "let's get a taxi", and then my ex starts saying I have no money for that, I offer to pay, and she refuses to go along.

 

She wanted to go home. She wanted you to go home with her. Right and wrong aside, why didn't you get the hint? Right and wrong aside, this was a friend you'd not seen for ages so why didn't she just bow out and frame it like she was giving the pair of you a chance to have a proper catch-up? Obviously, it's a case in her mind of, 'when Bagpuss wants to go home, all his FRIENDS want to go home, too'.

 

Cross! to her. PARTICULARLY as she'd just complained you didn't mix with her friends and here she is making mixing with YOUR friend very difficult for both you and your friend.

 

So, what do I do? Well, let's walk it anyways, and if you can't make it, we'll stop every once in a while.

 

Compromise attempt. Tick!

 

She complained the rest of the night. I'm in a bad mood now, too. I go over to my ex's place on the train, and we're chatting and ask her what was her bad mood, that we only see each other so little, especially since you just came back. I asked her later on the definitive "what do I need to do to make you happy" question, she refused to answer and I cry. Plus, I forgot an umbrella she bought with my money on vacation on the train. She's trying to console me and say "come on Nook, it's not a big deal, you need to relax, it's just there's so much stress".

 

Yeah. Easy for HER to say when she's not on the end of it, eh. And there was you, UNDOUBTEDLY wanting your friend to have the cause to say, 'Great gal you got yourself there, mate!', right?

 

Then when I realize I lost the umbrella, still crying, she gets more mad about the umbrella. I'm like, you have to be kidding me. I didn't say anything, I just said, I want to sleep along the lake tonight, on my own.

 

Yeah, you DID say something. You said, 'I vant...to sleep ...ALON'. But she's madder because you haven't done as she said (which is to chill).

 

She flipped, said no f*ckin' way and in the end I pout on my side of the bed. I couldn't sleep at all that night (well, normal for me), I'm crying.

 

That's bullying. She got her way over yours using total over-reaction, actual flip-out (aka TANTRUM). Cross!

 

I go to the floor of the bathroom and sleep a few hours later. She finds me and asks me to return to bed. We talk about what happened the previous night when I wake up, she calms me down and tells me that I have to relax when she has bad moods.

 

Ohhh, I SEEEE... It's not that she has to cease taking her bad moods out on you, oh, NO. It's that you have to LUMP THEM. Righto.. we see who matters more in THIS so-called team of two, don't we. CROSS!!!

 

She wants to have sex,

 

Ha-ha, WHAT, you're KIDDING me?! I'd have shoved a banana up her a*se by now! ...No, actually - an apple - so that I could say, 'Howdya like THEM apples?!'. (CROSS!!!)

 

...unless!.... is that her foreplay style per chance? (Takes all sorts, I spose?)

 

and then she drops another bomb.

 

Mate, she IS a bomb!

 

She stopped using her birth control method

 

(Has someone got a loaded gun I can borrow, please? Or a bucket I can spit into?)

 

I'm fed up to the back teeth of her... Seriously. I don't want to finish the rest of this post. I've seen enough. But I may as well since it's for your benefit and there're only 2 more paragraphs...

 

because it's too expensive to buy it when we have sex 2x a month, and she asks me for a condom. For me, 1. that's something you should tell me because we talked about it when we first being sexually active together (if it's too expensive, then let me pay half, for christ sake!), 2. why the hell should I carry a condom if I'm with you and we never use one and 3. you don't arouse me, then drop that bomb right at the wrong moment (not so important, but it hurt).

 

No so important? NOT SO IMPORTANT? NOOOOT SOOO IMPOOOOTANT?!*!? Would you like to re-read that paragraph and submit a fresh opinion, please (PUH-LEASE!)?

 

I went out of the house to clear my head (or buy something from the store, as I told her). I was going to dump her the night before and I stopped myself. I was proud that I did because I caught myself, but man, this is just too, too much.

 

Er, yeeeaaah..... I meant you don't blurt "It's over!" just because you're emotionally overwhelmed and apart from that the relationship's worth preserving.

 

I can see why you bailed out 4 times and, frankly, you should have just made it the once.

 

Your errors were just the usual emotions-and-a-relationships-clueless run-of-the-mill stuff. Hers?...................... [- me speechless]

 

Then this BC fiasco... it was just wow! I'm planning a three-day go away retreat for us in two days at a spa in the mountains for her birthday, getting all the details together to make sure it'll be amazing for her, and it's just shot, after shot, after shot, after shot at me.

 

I toughed out the rest of the day with my friend who came into town and my ex, and Sunday and Monday I chilled out to reflect on everything. I basically came to the conclusion that this is been long enough, and that it's never-ending. It never ends, this s*it. So I dumped her,

 

HOOORAYYYY!!!!!

 

two days before her birthday,

 

Mm. Not so good. You need to always keep your own halo intact. But, under the circumstances, hell, who cares!- HOORRAYYYY!!!

 

but I had to that week before she left for another 2 weeks. I would've done it long distance, and it would've made it worse.

 

Oh, okay, fairenoughski.

 

In hindsight, I should've suggested counselling way earlier, but too late for that I guess!

 

What - so she could mindf***ingly un-anchor the therapist as well, with all her unbelieveable, anti-decency jaw-dropping self-centredness? Ugh, on behalf of the therapeutic industry - THANKS FOR HAVING FAILED.

 

I get she's got problems but - Bleeeuuughhh-ACH! Give her to a psychiatrist, they're much harder b***ards.

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Hi Sarah,

 

No, not at all! In fact, THANK YOU! I really, really do appreciate it, and if you want to keep adding your few cents in, please do!

 

Sheesh, I did a re-read a few days ago and that's an effort beyond effort. I'm keeping up with your story, as you probably figured by my post a few days ago just to get a perspective of something familiar, but outside of my problems, to gain some levity, and Nattersmatter is really, really good. You learn so much it is quite ridiculous. In fact, we're both incredibly fortunate she replied to both of our posts or who the hell knows where we would be.

 

You're do amazing, and being through the early grief stages a few months ago, I know how hard it is to be that civil and in command of yourself. You should be very proud of your assertiveness so far. Just don't get down by the grief waves... we can't avoid them, only hold up and wait for low tide!

 

I appreciate your opinion! There is no right or wrong in this situation, with these tales of the heart. That's what the tough part is. Head vs. heart. I went through the same blame absorption process as well, and it's horrible. It's worse when you go to therapy to address them at the SAME time as you overcome the loss of someone you love. But hey, it had to be done, and in the end of the day it's about us. Our exes can deal with their own problems on their f*ckin own, that is, if they want to. And yes, you're doing the right thing for the kids! Trust me, you don't want to live in a broken home with bad influences. You have to correct them when you're older, like me, and the mistakes and bad habits you have, well, you just drag them on... until there's an intervention.

 

My ex was the same with the intelligence thing... she never said it out loud, until after we broke up, it came. Same with the OCD... it's great, until they walk away, and hammer me with every little fault

 

What we have to look for is someone who is confident in themselves, and is able to communicate correctly. Not like children, but like adults. It'll happen. Someday, it'll happen. And I wish you the best of luck too with everything. Your battle will be more difficult with the practical stuff. Keep your head up and let yourself be able to grief properly so you can best move on. And before all, I hope you're able to get yourself and self-definition back. We don't need anyone else to make us happy - it would just be better to share it with someone amazing! xx

[nookbridge]

Thanks for your reply Nattersmatter. I've written so much, and you've only highlighted that one cardinal question in post #90. I'm going to answer the two important questions in your two last posts, and perhaps ask you to reply back to #90, 92 and 94 (appendix #96) and - there were some interesting points in there that I would love to hear back on...

 

So, from #97...

 

 

 

I switched my smartphone IM app to another one because on Whatsapp, you can see what time people look at your messages AND we got into way too many fights over misunderstandings over what was written and whether I was ignoring her messages (you could see that I was active, and then I wouldn't reply sometimes... either I didn't feel like answering or I was busy). Right before the time off, we had a conversation, and we talked about being way too connected and talking on this app all the time and how things got misinterpreted. My issue is that I have to reply all the time to her and it distracts from school and other things. Her issue is that I would say things that seem bad on the face of it, or you can never get the right impression of how I said something. For example, one time she was saying that she had no money, which was always a trend. I wrote, as a joke, "are you sure you're not doing any drugs? How can you always be broke?" I know, bad joke... she took it really seriously and it made her really angry.

 

So, what I had done was eliminated the app from my phone, thus for EVERYONE. I did block her a few times before out of frustration in the past. I guess when I eliminated the app, it showed up as if I had blocked her. And hence, the reply.

 

So, I would say, yes, I think she has issues trusting in general AND I lost her trust over time. Blocking her on FB and Whatsapp was bad for trust too... you can usually always expect me to reply back to you, and then I stop responding because I'm upset, or I want space. It lacks consistency in my actions, for which I now know, thanks to you, that is reason for mistrust. Instead, what I have to do is be like, "hey, I'm busy, can you give me some space and I'll get back to you ASAP" or "hey, I'm just upset, give me a few hours to chill out and then we can chat, and you know what, I'll call you and we can speak to each other". I was just afraid to stand up too much to her because I hated these arguments. I preferred to run away, as you clearly know now.

 

For the record, I didn't tell her that I had switched apps because she asked me to give her time and space, and I thus didn't want to let her know until we were back to talking. Plus, I expected her to call me or something if she did want to talk to me, not an IM.

 

And #98...

 

 

 

I was never embarassed by her, EXCEPT not telling my mom about the relationship, which I mentioned a few posts ago. I did it for my reasons, which were stupid, but now I realize that. That's where she got that impression from. It's like this... I have my list of priorities: school, gf, me, my hobbies, my friends. I sacrificed way too many of the other priorities for her. So, if I'm not spending time with her, why should I spend it with her friends, when I've abandoned my friends, my interests, etc. It's more of a question of this: do I do my school work/hang out with friends/do something I enjoy when my gf has decided to pick being with her friends for the day. If I pick one of my priorities, it opens up more time to be exclusively with her without feeling like I'm losing track of myself. I have no issues being with her friends every once in a while, but I have my friends too - and thankfully, they were understanding enough of what happened to me to take me back. On an semi-related note - not coincidentally, she's not friends with most of her friends of old anymore, and switched them for a new group.