Post-birthday NC break - How to React Next?

[nookbridge]

I ended my year relationship with my gf about 6 months ago. Post-breakup was awkward to say the least. I messaged her on her birthday (on the same week of breakup), got together immediately following before she went away on vacation for 2 weeks. She broke NC continuously on vacation, but I held strong. I broke down when she got back with my stress, and I asked her back two separate times in a month (once asking immediate response, then with time), but after the second round she had turned the page and asked for indefinite time and space.

 

We both broke NC a few times afterwards, with really intense exchanges where I folded over and she ripped me apart for everything, but I had still invited her to a large dinner party prior. After being pathetic at the dinner, we met at a bar randomly later that week and I made a pathetic fool of myself for the second time in a week, losing all dignity for myself. I showed too much weakness and probably lost all attractiveness. NC finally started after she deleted me from FB, saying that I hid my info from her on my page, and that she never wanted to talk to me again. Next morning, she calls but doesn't apologize, but I was too weak to step up and demand an apology or anythign else. We were supposed to travel home on the same flight over x-mas, but switched my flight and did everything to avoid her over the holidays.

 

2+ months into NC this week, she txts simply - are you fine? - two days before my b-day. On b-day, she tried to call, but my phone was off and msgd me. I was surprised since I thought I would never hear from her again. I know for the healing process I have to make the commitment one way or the other - path to getting back together possibly or moving on. Friends won't work for me because there's too much passion and animosity for it to work. I replied back to the b-day msg by thanking her for thinking of me and if she wanted to talk to me in person - a possible catalyst to something or a sign that there is no return. She said yes of course, but after asking when she would like to get together, she replies that I only want to know if you're fine, and asks me back if there's something we need to talk about, as if she's reached closure and doesn't want personal contact. I think the exchange shows that it's probably best to not reply and just move along since she's likely closed the door, but then again, why the msg pre b-day and then call on the b-day. And why state closure, then call back the next day. I feel like she's physically trying to create space and time to have fun, but keep me around when she's over her "let's have tons of fun" phase. Thanks for reading my post and I appreciate what opinions you all have - as you know, it's tough to have a cold head through all of this!

[Nattersmatter]

What was the ponit in you, quote, holding strong when you'd already initiated re-contact and also got together right before she vacationed? I don't get that. Do you? Did she??? Or was that what put her off again. Because too me, that smacks of you wanting re-contact only if you can have completely control of it.

 

By the way, weakness of that variety in someone you love, isn't seen as unattractive. It fills you with sympathy and softens you. Women don't mock fluffy little injured bunnies, they scoop them up, saying, Ahhh (they ain't men, stop behaving like they are). Didn't it her? Or by 'fool' do you mean you were a bit arsehole-y?

 

DID you hide your info from her? If so, why should she apologise for the only natural reaction to it?

 

You really have been swinging wildly between receptive and hostile, wouldn't you say? Do you think YOU should have got all the bad feeling out in one fell swoop like she did?

 

I think you need to walk the recovery path REGARDLESS of whether back to the relationship or away from it because you sound all over the place, chopping and changing what you're trying to achieve one minute as opposed to the next. Who said she only wants to be friends, though?

 

I think what you need to cut out of the equation is your over-protective ego, actually - despite you call it passion. It's really messing things up for you, isn't it? Including negative assumptions that her asking what needs to be talked about (which I took to be fishing) has to mean she's reached closure. I don't think it's personal contact she's avoiding but the unpredictability of whether she'll end up 'attacked' if she does.

 

I don't think you're in a position to decide what's best or not. Not at this premature stage, anyway. I think you need to calm down and work out what you want and, if that's reconciliation, to ensure you lay out a SMOOTH pathway for her rather than all these rucks and potholes. Being the woman, I doubt she knows what she wants because you don't know what YOU want and won't stick to either.

 

What evidence do you have that she's off having fun? What are you claiming - that she's heartless thus virtually unaffected by all this?

 

Do you LIKE this woman? Why did you end it, anyway?

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

What was the ponit in you, quote, holding strong when you'd already initiated re-contact and also got together right before she vacationed? I don't get that. Do you? Did she??? Or was that what put her off again. Because too me, that smacks of you wanting re-contact only if you can have completely control of it.

 

I broke up on the week of her b-day (reason: summation of poor communication, too much dependency on me - last straw was a night where she was in a very bad mood the whole evening, and wanting to get some feedback, I asked what I need to do better this going forward for you because you always seem unsatisfied or unhappy; she didn't want to answer the question and it literally broke my heart right at the moment, took the weekend to think about it and decided at that time to end it instead of finding a therapist for help). NC until her b-day, then I sent her a msg which got her hopes up and she invited me to hang out that evening and the next one too. She left, but on a call, she lashed out (I guess logically) about everything and I started NC to calm things down. She re-initiated it to try to get sympathy back from me after 10 days or so. She came back, we kept chatting and meeting, and one evening I asked her to reconcile; she wanted some time and I said I want an immediate response (big mistake I know!), but she said no. We didn't talk for 10 days after or so, then she came to my place to have dinner, but it was pretty hostile. I asked her to reconsider, but take her time. She said ok, but came back saying no again. I totally get all criticisms of what I did, because this is what all horrible behaviour (but thankfully I've got help on my own to deal with the issues to not repeat!)

 

By the way, weakness of that variety in someone you love, isn't seen as unattractive. It fills you with sympathy and softens you. Women don't mock fluffy little injured bunnies, they scoop them up, saying, Ahhh (they ain't men, stop behaving like they are). Didn't it her? Or by 'fool' do you mean you were a bit arsehole-y?

 

Fool = I was saying how much I missed her, crying, excessive compliments, ie. all behaviour that would make it seem like I could get no one else on Earth! That fear of never finding anyone else kicked in!

 

DID you hide your info from her? If so, why should she apologise for the only natural reaction to it?

 

In the past I did hide FB info from her out of spite (I know, more terrible behaviour!), but not in this instance, which is what totally shocked me when I got the message. But I get why she thought I probably did it.

 

You really have been swinging wildly between receptive and hostile, wouldn't you say? Do you think YOU should have got all the bad feeling out in one fell swoop like she did?

 

I think we all look back and regret things. I agree though, I was very erratic during the relationship. Just that afterwards, I was focused on getting her back that I just let her say everything and accept all the blame, even though it takes two to tango. I made a rash decision breaking things off, but there were issues.

 

I think you need to walk the recovery path REGARDLESS of whether back to the relationship or away from it because you sound all over the place, chopping and changing what you're trying to achieve one minute as opposed to the next. Who said she only wants to be friends, though?

 

I've come a long, long ways from before and therapy has been fantastic to teach me how to exist in a relationship! Unfortunately, it's probably more than too late to get my ex back, but we all make mistakes and the most important thing is to learn from them and don't repeat them! She offered friendship before 2-month NC started, and I said that I think it's best to walk away if you don't return for myself.

 

I think what you need to cut out of the equation is your over-protective ego, actually - despite you call it passion. It's really messing things up for you, isn't it? Including negative assumptions that her asking what needs to be talked about (which I took to be fishing) has to mean she's reached closure. I don't think it's personal contact she's avoiding but the unpredictability of whether she'll end up 'attacked' if she does.

 

We were both overprotective and controlling to each other, which meant trust issues. The last thing I want is to manipulate anyone to be with me. I want them to be with me for who I am obviously. I just took the tone of how she replied back to me, basically saying I only want to know how you're doing, and not meet with you in person to be going in that direction. It's one thing to say is there something you need to say, and another to combine it with I just want to know how you are, and I don't care much else about anything, unless you have something to say to me. But I hadn't thought of your point to be honest. What do you mean by be attacked? Do you think she's in fear of me trying to get her back in one day, or another type of fear? And what do you suggest I say back, in your opinion?

 

I don't think you're in a position to decide what's best or not. Not at this premature stage, anyway. I think you need to calm down and work out what you want and, if that's reconciliation, to ensure you lay out a SMOOTH pathway for her rather than all these rucks and potholes. Being the woman, I doubt she knows what she wants because you don't know what YOU want and won't stick to either.

 

I now know what's best for me. I want to be be healthy, committed relationship where I feel like I'm losing myself and there's balance. The last time I asked her back she said she needed time to find herself as she felt like she lost her identity.

 

What evidence do you have that she's off having fun? What are you claiming - that she's heartless thus virtually unaffected by all this?

 

She's told me some of her stories and common friends FB photos tell the story too. But she's not heartless and unaffected, I think she's just enjoying being single and meeting new friends and that sort of stuff.

 

Do you LIKE this woman? Why did you end it, anyway?

 

Yes, but it doesn't seem like it, now does it?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Of her BIRTHDAY? Oh, nice one, yeah (jezuz!).

 

Let's be honest here. You two had a perfectly bog-standard humdinging ARGUMENT, and because you couldn't sort it with a Hey Presto yet couldn't tolerate being sat there in negative emotional over-arousal, meanwhile - you went PLEUGH! and actually ended- ENDED the entire- ENTIRE relationship, completely needlessly. Do you know that this is what a lot of new mothers without adequate support do when sleep deprivation, etc. gets too much and the baby's crying (again!) and they need to press a Pause button but there isn't one so they find themselves approaching the baby with a pillow before they realise with a major WHOOSH! what they were about to do and thereafter realise and acept that this is precisely what it means to be a mother?... in a supremely close, intimate, wholly interreliant relationship? It's sometimes joy-inspiring and sometimes HELL during which you just... want to...make it STOOOOP, AAAARGH!!!. Well, that's living side-by-side with humans for ya. Take it or leave it.

 

OBVIOUSLY it wasn't the correct solution apart from just feeling like it at that precise fleeting moment only, or else, sadness aside, you'd have felt overall more relieved, contented and capable of living with your decision.

 

So let's tell it like it is again, shall we? Not "No Contact". MAJOR SULKING AND STUBBORNNESS A DEUX.

 

(Question: Didn't your message get *your* hopes up?)

 

And who told you if someone's angry and lashes out that the, again, sole and adult solution is to COMPLETELY WITHHOLD YOURSELF AND COMMUNICATION AND, THEREBY, OPPORTUNITY FOR BONA FIDE (as in permanent) REDRESS THROUGH MORE TALKING? I can tell you aren't at all aware of this fact and certainly don't intend this to be the case and will undoubtedly feel mortified to know it, but - go google and you'll see that this is actually a formal, recognised criterion of Emotional Abuse. Whereas, had you just let her finish lashing out, she'd have calmed down, totally spent, and that is when quieter, calmer, more rational talks would have re-commenced and things would have - WOULD have - got sorted.

 

Withdrawing, instead, at that point is THEEE most devastatingly frustrating thing you could do to a woman (when women don't run from emotional danger, they tackle it, and immediately), which achieves nothing but to throw fat onto the fire and thereby make things a whole lot worse not just for her but for you, too. Talks may WELL have been more possible after that total embargo of contact, and trying to create the opportunity to calm down a GOOD idea in principle... but NOT when you do it like that (ugh/ach/aargh). Time Out for an hour or two - i.e. a reasonable amount of time, PRE-CITED, is one thing; withdrawal at that distinctly wrong time with zero light at the end of the tunnel marked out - as you've probably just discovered if you did Google - is a completely different kettle of (rotten) fish.

 

When you do it like that, you can bet your arse you achieve nothing but to create MORE hurt, and over-complicate things both unnecessarily and wholly avoidably. She would have been seething underneath with hurt and resentment for having effectively had her hands completely tied and rendered helpless. And because you'd already just taught her that if she ever tried to talk honestly with you regardless that it might initially be painful, she would end up 'punished' by yet more doses of almighty frustration, she by then wouldn't have dared... which basically produces a situation where the woman has unexpressable resentment bubbling and festering away underneath any surface appearance and behaviour. ("Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".) These things CANNOT be corked, meaning, because they can't be let out at their own preferred and wholly natural size and speed, at some point they're going to be LEAKED out ...like a tunnel-digging convict deposits rubble around the exercise yard.... trickle, trickle, trickle, trickle, TRICKLE...

 

...HENCE!...despite resumption of the relationship was what she wanted too, she had to SACRIFICE that desire in her ABJECT, OVERDUE NEED to discharge that pent-up frustration and hit back at you: "I'm not sure... [so you'll have to wait and eat more pain, TAKE THAT!]"

 

Who is it taught you that this is how to argue as an adult in an adult romance? Or, put another way, who is it failed to teach you how to argue maturely and sensibly whereby a return to harmony is achieved? Did your parents go through a difficult time during that period of your mental syllabus or something and thus didn't have the time or energy? What?

 

You're the man, you're supposed to be the protector...and that includes, of the relationship: She's maintenance and health, you're construction and RE-CONSTRUCTION. Some tone and set of rules you set there, huh? You denied her a vital and fundamental drive - to repair. Little wonder you enraged her when you realise that fact, eh?

 

So anyway... she's gone Take That! and that's just provoked YOU all over again, hence you return that rotten service ball by stamping your feet and insisting on an immediate answer. She spits Nao!, and you bat back with ANOTHER over-the-top dose of total contact and communication withdrawal.... Toddler Tennis, anyone?

 

Hardly surprising that come the dinner she was by then full-blown hostile, is it, when I lay it all out like that for you? And still, I'm afraid, not surprising that despite at THAT point you finally re-found your sensible side and told her to take her time, that period both in the run-up and after had been woefully inadequate for the discharging of her massive banked-up resentment - hence, she came back knee-jerk-saying No again.

 

I'm sure your therapist has explained all of this to you already? HOWEVER, apart from "horrible behaviour" I can tell by the way you described it all beforehand, that you haven't QUI....TE understood it to a deep enough level. Hopefully this will help you to.

 

So that's that bit. She's felt maltreated and denied her rightful role too damn far to dare get back into 'bed' with you.

 

What's next?...

 

 

 

Now, look, see?...there you go AGAIN! What do you MEAN "fool"??? What the eff is foolish about admitting something that's true to the person whom it concerns?! It's foolish NOT TO. It may not have worked instantly like you wanted but that doesn't mean it was a bad thing in the final analysis. And FYI, there IS no such thing as 'excessive' compliments to the person who loves and needs to hear them! And FYI again - the feelings that you forge together are SUPPOSED to make you feel there's no-one else for you on this Earth - WITHOUT that, no adult relationship could last long enough for our extremely slow-developing offspring to be raised healthily into independent, capable adults (think about it)! Why are you so impatient all the time?

 

This downright daft attitude proves to me that you indeed haven'thad enough therapy yet. Or time to reflect properly on it all.

 

 

 

Well, did you APOLOGISE? Never mind what she's got to apologise over - that's her responsibility, not yours. Apologise and mean it and you'll probably get one back.

 

 

 

Some more than most, matey.

 

 

 

Where being vulnerable and humilitous like a mature, adult romantic pairing demands is concerned, too much pride and self-protectiveness and lack of control over your emotions, is what YOU'VE got (or had?), IMO. You need to allow yourself to be hurt, disappointed and thwarted WITHOUT thinking it renders you some sort of weak, pathetic fool. Au contraire! If you can't be hurt and thwarted nor accept and expect that you're probably going to be, at least here and there, you can't love properly. Berbom.

 

 

 

It takes two to tango but it only takes one to ask the other to dance and to choose the style and pace of music and it only takes one to take the huge liberty of deciding to rip the needle from the record, unplug the player, stuff it under your arm and run petulantly out of the door and away with it. Who told you you get to decide whether peace talks, difficult initially or not, are allowed or absolutely aren't, anyway? Seriously, now - you need to think about this..and think about what Partnership means.

 

I do concede that she undoubtedly could have handled you and her reactions better, though. But Like Attracts Like, whether that's a case of two matching keys or one key and its counterpart keyhole - so that's hardly surprising.

 

 

 

They're called Disagreements. They require the pair of you to establish exactly where you disagree and how and when - which can be upsetting because they're happening with someone whom you'd ideally expect never to disagree with - and then to ask or offer to make compromises, whether they be a case of or or . Compromise. Negotiation. CONFLICT RESOLUTION. Something you need to practise on, or rather, something you need to practise doing WHILST YOU'RE UPSET AND/OR UNDER FIRE. You need to work on being a bit more 'barrister-like' and not take your emotions so seriously that you let them pupetteer you so. *That*, I think you'll find, is what's Foolish. It's called Chimpanzee. (No offense - just telling it like it is.)

 

 

 

It takes time to sink in. It's not for the (cough!) impatient.

 

 

 

Disagree. Whether it's still too soon is another matter.

 

 

 

...said the tortoise as he climbed back off the rock. ;-)

 

 

 

Don't tell me it takes two to tango and then put the onus for swallowing pride all onto HER shoulders. That won't wash. (See what I'm seeing?) It's entirely possible that she offered friendship so as to create the possibility of continuing to stay together but from a far safer, re-starting-point distance. Anyway, how long ago was it she made the offer/when NC started, precisely?

 

 

 

You can in Situation Normal be as gorgeous as pie but NOBODY can be with you if you make it impossible to resolve conflicts by grabbing and running off with the very thing you both DANCE TO; the conflicts will always signify the end of the relationship. Are you going to stop doing this, now?

 

 

 

Well, that's a big fat lie for a start, isn't it. What means more to you - really?... her or your sense of pride? You'd better sit down and have a long hard think about that, mate.

 

 

 

Oh, stop being such a total banana! "Unless" this "Unless" that... Jesus, man! Get round to her house with the biggest bouquet of flowers you can manage to carry, throw yourself at her feet and WITHOUT stupidly thinking this makes you some sort of pathetic fool rather than simply what you ARE - which is a man in serious love but who has the B*LLS to lay his heart out in front of her, TO TAKE *RISKS* LIKE MEN ARE SUPPOSED TO so that this fear (which IS the real culprit where coming accross "pathetic" is concerned) DOESN'T get communicated to her, but just BRAVERY... impressive, impressive, all-round-inspiring Bravery! And that includes the intelligence to know that although she MIGHT slam the door in your face, if she loves you (which she must to have put up with all of that for so long), it's only going to be a matter of time before it sinks in and she's ringing you up to take it back and accept.

 

Wanna be the man, the leader? THEN LEAD. *Confidently*. Feel the fear but do it anyway. "I speet in de face of fear, PAH!" *That's* "a man".

 

 

 

Lost her emotional equilibrium and rational thinking, more like.

 

 

 

What - "I'm so Shiny and Happy and Sorted, no REALLY I am!"-Book, you mean? PFFF, huyh, right. FULL of truthful facts, that one! She's "enjoying" not being hurt and confused and denied the faster, more comforting means to feel better whenever there's a conflict (in your cases, ongoing thanks to the fact that you run off with the negotiations tables and chairs every single time).

 

 

 

So do something about it. Easy-peasy-rock-hard-lemons-squeezy.

 

You 'ard enuff? If not - stay away from relationships until you are. Simples!

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Thanks for your opinion, first off. I hadn't thought of some of the things, you're right. I didn't end the relationship from one moment to the next - it was sliding downhill for several months - and after almost getting shot in the head while on the bus (missed me by no more than 10 cm), I had one of those wake-up moments when I realized I wasn't happy how everything was going and I sat down with my ex to have a long talk about what I was feeling, and we talked and I at least felt better afterwards, being more aware. The first time we meet up after the talk, her negativity and just overall what seemed like an unappreciation of spending time with me came up and it hurt real bad, just felt desperate, like there's no way out. I took a few days and then I pulled the cord - I know now that you just don't act like that when you love someone like I did and I really regret that I didn't volunteer myself to counselling earlier. Yes, I do come from a very abusive childhood (physical and verbal).

 

As for dates, relationship ended 6 months ago, I asked her back twice in the span of a few weeks a month later, the dinner was a month after this (when she made the friendship offer), true NC started about 2 months ago and ended this week.

 

>

 

I don't necessarily fear going up to her and doing this. What I do fear is that is that the onus will be 100% on me to change everything that she thinks is wrong with me, but I don't think she will be as willing or open to things to do the same. There's no room for pride in love, and we're both very proud people! The other thing is that fact that she's admitted to losing the spark that she had initially for me. I don't know if she'll get it back.

 

So, after this exchange two days ago...

 

-Thanks for thinking of me yestreday. Do you have some time to speak with a friend, in person?

-Yes, obviously

-Ok, when are you available to hang out?

-Are you ok? That's all I want to know. Is there something to talk about?

 

I didn't reply, then get this message yestreday

 

- next week, one evening? I just want to know that you're fine, I'm a little worried about you. But I want to want to know that you are fine...

 

I'm not sure how to reply to honest because it just seems like she pities me, as opposed to wanting to regain limited contact from a distance.

[Nattersmatter]

Nearly shot in the head? What are ya - an extra on NCIS?! Jee....ZUZ!

 

Yeah, I know those moments - had too many myself, in fact (sob/hoorayyy!).

 

Well, anyway - you've passed the test. I put JUST ENOUGH ego-provocation in there to see if you'd basically come back with RAH-RAH-RAH-BOG-OFF! or not, LOL. But ye didne (tick!). So obviously you've gained enough clarity and understanding to recognise when you're under attack and when you're not (regardless of mere manner of delivery).

 

Sorry. Had to be done. ;-) Actions, not words.

 

This is the thing: before you'd gained the means for self-improvement on that score, you were a (let's say) W. You *attracted* a W (Like Attracts Like). You might have altered just enough to become a X. But she hasn't yet.. she's still stuck in W and needs to catch up. She's obviously highly reactive to you in terms of following your lead because, if you became a prat in the heat of the moment, so, automatically, did she. The way to fast-track her is by constantly setting the tone and example, with confidence. You approach someone with more confidence than them and they basically think LEADER! and react towards you accordingly ("Simon sayyyyys...."). But it takes time and repetition.

 

I suggest the next time you talk to her you play what's known as Friendly Interrogator: "I said that? Wow...that must have made you feel terrible, yes?". You behave is as you're not you but a third, sympathetic party, hearing about it dispassionately but sympathetically. It's also known as, pissing on someone's firework. ;-) It's not an attempt at contrivance because you obviously do feel that way, now, right?

 

If your parents were abusive you can bet your arse so were theirs. THEY may have been too weak or clueless to overcome that handicap but that doesn't mean you have to be. Mate, this is your chance - to be the one person in your long, issue-ridden family line to overcome that pass-the-parcel type reactive abuse product... to learn from and rise above it and NOT let it spill into your relationships and your children-their children-their children... ad infinitum. That's a huge responsibility, granted. But it's also a huge privilege as well as testament to your greater strength of mind and intelligence. Suggest you read, A Child Called It (Dave Peltzer). If he can do it (when he eats and poos same as you), you certainly can.

 

You need to stop flooding and panicking at the fact you're flooding, and learn mechanisms for coping. She's obviously the same and gets sucked into that temporary insanity with you. You need to JUST SAY, 'This is getting too heated. I'm going to go sit quietly in the other room for 30 minutes [whatever period] and I suggest you take advantage of the time to calm down, too. We don't want to say things we don't mean and might later regret'.

 

Six months ago is nothing. Two months is even pettier than nothing. The fat lady hasn't even entered the building.

 

What I do fear is that is that the onus will be 100% on me to change everything that she thinks is wrong with me, but I don't think she will be as willing or open to things to do the same.

 

Just do YOUR bit - it's HER job to worry about whether she can rise to the challenge or not and what it proves if not. If YOU do all you can now - cos a bit late is better than never - you're in a win/win situation: you have the chance to get to start over OR you get the peace of mind of walking away knowing you did do everything that was in your power to do.

 

She MUST be competitive with you despite she loves you, or she wouldn't have tried to follow whatever was your level during arguments. *She* would have been the one to say, 'This is stupid, I'm going home, ring me when you've calmed down'. Right? So there's a clue: you set a higher tone and she'll try to compete with it.

 

And don't worry about the spark, either. Face facts - the first few minutes you first met her, you HAD no spark! Right? Chemistry is chemistry, it doesn't die. It just gets BLOCKED (by fear). The spark is there, alright. And think of it like this: every good/positive thing you did was like you depositing money in a bank that so happened to be situated in her mind/heart. Every bad/negative thing you did was a withdrawal. If you're currently in the Red, you just need to do/say enough good things until you're back in the Black. Simples!...that's precisely how it works.

 

The upshot is - if it turns out she doesn't have what you've got - what it takes to learn and improve and move forwards - at least you've elevated yourself by a good few levels. And on that newer level are women whom previously were out of your league and would have stayed so had you not gained this greater self-awareness. So you're going to end up in a better, happier place, WHATEVER.

 

Hang on a min - I see we have new data:

 

-Thanks for thinking of me yestreday. Do you have some time to speak with a friend, in person?

-Yes, obviously

-Ok, when are you available to hang out?

-Are you ok? That's all I want to know. Is there something to talk about?

 

I didn't reply,

 

WHY didn't you reply? What's so wrong with saying, What do you mean precisely? Do you HAVE to know everything about everything? Are you a man or The Wizard of Oz??

 

Anyway- "Yes, obviously". Come ONNN! Those are NOT the words of a woman who is done with you. You're NOT a friend, you're her ex-lover, and she KNOWS this. "Yes, obviously" was said to the LOVER.

 

All she meant was, 'Dare I? Give me some guarantee that it won't all degenerate into an argument?'

 

then get this message yestreday

 

So she's CHASING you! There you go - proof positive!

 

- next week, one evening? I just want to know that you're fine, I'm a little worried about you. But I want to want to know that you are fine...

 

OLLOCKS! She could FAR more easily establish that by email! LOL - you're right - she *does* have a lot of pride! Not as much as YOU think, though because - look!...she was able to put her pride away enough to do the action of chasing up on you, anyway.

 

I'm not sure how to reply to honest because it just seems like she pities me, as opposed to wanting to regain limited contact from a distance.

 

Well, you're wrong, then. What can I say???

 

I suggest something in this vein but in your own words:

 

So sorry for the delay.. I was thinking about what you were saying...

 

That's so sweet of you to say, that you want to know I'm fine! How's about [insert day/evening]? And - DON'T WORRY - with help (which I'll tell you all about), I think I've finally got my silly ego under control, LOL (but I'm serious). Let's just have a really pleasant time together, catching up, and make up for all the stupid things we (I) said, shall we?

 

(Note the positive and harmless carrot: "which I'll tell you all about" ...LATER... only if you meet me. LOL. Women like intrigue as much as men, doncha know. ;-))

 

But that's true, isn't it? Or - what would YOU want to say? Have a bash?

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Thanks for the reply again! I didn't notice it was a test, but whatever. It kind of felt like my old coaches telling me things in a "hey, wake the hell up", but you know there is still respect there. One question, are you male or female? I just wanted to know from what point of view it's coming from...

 

How do I unblock her fear? Just by relaxing the situation, and eventually the old chemistry comes back? It feels like it's kind of out of my hands since it's not my fear... I guess all you can do is your part...

 

I'm not going to be as aggressive as perhaps what you said, but I'm thinking something like this is right...

 

I'm sorry for not getting back to you, I hadn't had a chance to think about what you said the last few days. You're a sweetheart, thanks for caring about how I'm doing How does Thursday evening sound? And, look, no need to worry - I just want to share a pleasant evening with you, catch up and move on from all the drama in the past. I think I managed to pack my old crazy self it back home in the spare room over the holidays.

[Nattersmatter]

(Male brain (official), female body, raised as a boy at own insistence then finally succumbed to the pressure of being a girl but one that still thought and behaved like a man, until finally self-trained into being more womanly, including rising above the female hormonal rages, so I guess - *both*, but that's not important now ("...and don't call me Shirley") (ha-ha, name the film!).)

 

Being yourself is one thing. The other is your behaviour, which is changeable (if I can, you can). You hurt her so despite she's attached and attracted to you, still, she needs to feel in control as she re-approaches 'the lion's den'. Cease pressuring her to give you her answer to a decision she hasn't even made her mind up over or, as you've seen, you'll push her into panic and a No and/or behaving like an ass.

 

As explained, you behaved at important moments, especially, in ways that broke whatever portion of trust so - "love credits" - you're going to have to overlay each incident with ones carrying a new attitude that oozes through your whole manner and behaviour as instills new trust. So, yes, relax the situation, start CONSISTENTLY showing calm confidence as well as acceptance in your expectation that reconciliation is as much possible as not yet slightly more so (positivity), and, no, it's very much IN your hands. It's also not true to say it's not your fear because if a screeching match seemed to be starting, you'd probably panic and flood and withdraw or clam up all over again. Don't. Confident men who know what they want and how to get it the right way, don't panic and bolt/shut down. Employ the mechanisms for diffusing the negative emotions without that meaning you have to cease discussing like adults.

 

For example, if you say something that gets you an expectedly antagonistic reply which rouses your ego and has you about to arsily say, 'What do you mean by THAT!?' or 'That's not fair, that's not how it happened! - DON'T. See POW! as what it actually is - OW! mixed with pride and self-defense - and rise above it or plain ignore it. In order to insult you in the face of any reasonable comment or question, she has to go somewhat off tangent or into petty detail, anyway. Ignore the hair-splitting and say something like, 'You're no doubt right about that BUT what I actually asked you and wanted to know was, blah'. Again - think barrister trying to get cooperation from another barrister who is under the mistaken impression you're opponents when you're in fact teammates working on trying to solve and win the same case. And that sums up the attitude: you're a TEAM. Nobody feels at threat from someone who's oozing a teammate attitude.

 

My version wasn't aggressive, it was confident and smacked of calm control and leadership (albeit maybe a 'please' in front of 'don't worry' would make misinterpretion impossible?), which is what you want to inspire her trust and calm self-control with. I like your own version except the bit about the spare room. If it's in the spare room, it's still there where it can come out and interfere at any moment. The monster (your ego) is supposed to either be too busy playing inside its toddler playpen to pay any notice or peacefully sound asleep from having been well-fed (with the correct food) and thereby long-term placated and no danger to either of you except under the most extreme duress.

 

Also, change 'I hadn't had the chance' to 'I needed to give what you said proper thought and consideration' (you can probably feel the difference without my explaining it). You could possibly add, 'to make use of my new-found skill of seeing everything from your point of view rather than just my own'. And that IS key, so I suggest if you haven't already that you re-play the video tape, so to speak, and switch shoes as you go back through the pertinent sections of mental footage. There's nothing quite like it where empathising is difficult for getting a taste of being on the receiving end of You back then.

 

Again - her ability to follow your example and match your good attitude behaviour for behaviour is HER business and chance to prove. You just worry about being the best man you can be.

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Well, the meeting is set-up... let's see what happens. I still have something inside of me telling me that this is a "sympathy play" from her and reconciliation will never happen.

 

It's going to be a big challenge to step up especially since I know what's facing me is a facade of "I just want to know how you're doing", cold and distance behaviour and "I'm a confident woman, I'm good and look at me I can look at you in the eyes and not feel anything". To not react and go about my own business, without being my animated self (I'm usually a pretty vibrant, emotive character) is going to be hard to juggle. I guess what I should strive to be is in control of my emotions, confident, don't lead on too much that I haven't been that great post-break up and try to keep the meeting jovial but brief...? And post-meeting, am I to be the one to seek another meeting down the line, or message her post-meeting, or do I just let her come back under her own control? Last thing I want is entering friends-zone when I want lovers-zone!

 

So, Nattersmatter, I'm basically asking you do's and don'ts for meeting and post-meeting, since I'm gonna need all the help I can get...

[nookbridge]

Well, the meeting is set-up... let's see what happens. I still have something inside of me telling me that this is a "sympathy play" from her and reconciliation will never happen.

 

It's going to be a big challenge to step up especially since I know what's facing me is a facade of "I just want to know how you're doing", cold and distance behaviour and "I'm a confident woman, I'm good and look at me I can look at you in the eyes and not feel anything". To not react and go about my own business, without being my animated self (I'm usually a pretty vibrant, emotive character) is going to be hard to juggle. I guess what I should strive to be is in control of my emotions, confident, don't lead on too much that I haven't been that great post-break up and try to keep the meeting jovial but brief...? And post-meeting, am I to be the one to seek another meeting down the line, or message her post-meeting, or do I just let her come back under her own control? Last thing I want is entering friends-zone when I want lovers-zone!

 

So, Nattesmatter, I'm basically asking you do's and don'ts for meeting and post-meeting, since I'm gonna need all the help I can get...

[nookbridge]

Or scrap it, someone pulled the eject cord and left without further arrangements for another date...

[Nattersmatter]

NO, no, no, no, no... You can't suck me in and then feed me crumbs. Where's your final version and what was her reply? GIMMIE! ;-p

 

Explain your "sympathy play" theory and what and how it would achieve for her as well as be worth going to that amount of effort for so that all the nice kiddies at home can marvel at your amazing, long-haul logic. (Still wanna? LOL)

 

Never MIND what facade you get or how hard it's going to be to keep your composure under 'fire' (ice). She's entitled to her shield of ice and it's your job to be persistently well behaved, kind, humilitous, generous-spirited, respectful, gentle, patient, CHARMING AND GOOD-HUMOURED enough to melt it. Is this woman worth a bit of hard work to re-secure or isn't she? Who told you anything worth having came for free, anyway? What are you - Charity Boy? Wanna shiny penny in your little collect box, do ya? No... Didn't think so.

 

More to the point - was she piss-easy to melt the first time, was she?

 

And none of this pretending-you've-been-great nonsense either. False confidence doesn't impress women. A balanced mixture of manliness with a touch of (so-called) femininity, confidence with a touch of vulnerability, self-assurance with humility, is the best recipe. It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it. You offer up that you've been a grieving mess but coping with it because you concede it was equally your own fault. You need her in order to really enjoy your life but you don't need her to keep you alive - diff/diff. This is mainly about needing her because you want her so much, not wanting her because you need her so much. Huge diff/all the diff. If you had a need that was overly strong it would have have pre-existed her, in which case she could be ANYONE. How flattering's that? I'll tell ya - it's his flattering: PTHTHTHTH! [put lots of saliva into it]

 

Yes, definitely leave her wanting more. That's not the same as giving her one piddly drop of manna before scarpering. But don't over-feed her or it'll smack of lack of confidence in your new affect and effect.

 

What were you like during all those times wherein she fell in love with you? Be and do that but THEN some. Treat it like a first date and treat HER like a first date (a biggie). And if you detect hinted requests for reassurance and admissions that you can tell would be a deal-breakers by omission - give them to her.

 

Your overall vibe should be, "If *I* were a woman, meeting new & improved me for the first time, I'd definitely shag me (cor, would I?!)!" but mixed in equal quantity with, "You are equally as gorgeous (blimey, I should cocoa?!)".

 

Don't attempt to go armed with a mental script, though, or you'll be incapable of flexing according to the cues... on which note, try to listen more than you talk. *She's* the one who knows all the things you're after knowing, after all, right? Not you. And if she stumps you with some question, don't just say nothing or give something knee-jerk, just buy time the nicer way with something like, 'That's a really good question which deserves a properly thought out answer, so I'd like to think about that and get back to you if that's alright?' (but don't use that as an avoidance tactic whatever you do).

 

Post meeting: You should ALWAYS be the one to pursue. That's what a real man with confidence in his allure and see-it-want-it-get-it reliable skillset does. Granted if he's a gentleman he'll take the cues to tone it down or up a bit from her but, still... You should probably send her a text or email to basically say, Thank-you again, I had a lovely time and I hope so did you.

 

Once lovers don't want to become friends with their once-lovers. They merely use the cover of friendship for their re-approach whereby they retain enough control under better self-protection as they re-test the waters baby-step by baby-step. Granted, they may also use "friends" as their duping mechanism - to give you false hope so that they can continue getting the perks for none of the usual work and risk - but you should be able to tell which is the case pretty quickly. And unless she's pretty antisocial and unlikeable, I imagine, were friendship something she were in the market for, there are far, far, FAR easier friendships to be had out there than you/the ex, right?

 

Really, if you were confident about the extent or quality to which you'd changed and weren't trying to control the outcome, you wouldn't need any help. Women can tell very easily when a man has changed certain key aspects of his attitude and expectations as opposed to mere hot air. You'll feel very different - even without saying a word.

 

Be your old self but new and improved self. And let her feel HER rightful portion of in control despite the confidence and positive optimism is (seemingly) all yours. Cos actions speak loudest and she iz acting. You could have this conversation ON THE PHONE, right? So why isn't she? Answer: Too Bleedin' Obvious.. certainly with those who have no fear and no emotional investment risk to cloud their powers of thinking.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Or scrap it, someone pulled the eject cord and left without further arrangements for another date...

 

Pardon?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

If you're saying she cancelled, then, don't worry about it. It's natural she might have lost her bottle at the 11th hour. And/or she might have thought she was making it too easy for you and wants to see how far you're prepared to go. It happens. And feint heart never won fayre maiden...

 

Anyway, what happened specifically?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Oh, and by the way - before you mentally throw the towel in: I find it quite heartening myself that she lost her bottle. Proves it was never a meeting to establish friendship. You don't lose your nerve over meeting up with an ex you no longer love or fancy majorly to where you can entertain becoming only friends with.

 

 

 

Like I say, it's natural and more to the point, understandable. New & Improved you should be able to appreciate that and demonstrate the attitude accordingly. Assuming she e-mailed to cancel and you've replied, I hope that's the attitude you did demonstrate?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I can see you're on-line again and imagine you're busy typing an answer as I speak, but I've got to be up and out early tomorrow so hopefully you'll be okay waiting until tomorrow avo for feedback?

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Oh, and by the way - before you mentally throw the towel in: I find it quite heartening myself that she lost her bottle. Proves it was never a meeting to establish friendship. You don't lose your nerve over meeting up with an ex you no longer love or fancy majorly to where you can entertain becoming only friends with.

 

 

 

Like I say, it's natural and more to the point, understandable. New & Improved you should be able to appreciate that and demonstrate the attitude accordingly. Assuming she e-mailed to cancel and you've replied, I hope that's the attitude you did demonstrate?

 

xoxo

 

I'll reply a bit later to the questions in the meeting reply. She just said the following, mostly word for word:

 

- hey mr.X, in the end I can't do (insert day), I made plans with friends, one of them is going back home for good and we're going to give the person a present and then I have class and then I go there

- so I'm happy that you are well

- I didn't want you to be in bad shape

- and I'm sorry but I can't

 

Yestreday, the reply to my message was "in principle I can meet with you after class". My message was essentially what we discussed before... with your additions and suggested subtractions...

 

I haven't replied yet, but I don't even know if I should reply really... the natural sequence would be set a new date from her end, but none of that... plus, 100% probability she comes around again to "test the waters", no? Do you wait, or do you reply to look good? IF, IF I were to reply, I would say...

 

Thanks for the letting me know, and I hope you enjoy the party??!!??!!

 

Although, I bet you're going to give me an enlightening rethink of that, and say exactly what dumb me should say...

[nookbridge]

I can see you're on-line again and imagine you're busy typing an answer as I speak, but I've got to be up and out early tomorrow so hopefully you'll be okay waiting until tomorrow avo for feedback?

 

xoxo

 

Awesome Nattersmatter, I'll reply to the above post too a little later. She knows that I'm out of the country working anyways too, so an immediate response is usually impossible from me anyways, so time won't hurt...

[nookbridge]

Explain your "sympathy play" theory and what and how it would achieve for her as well as be worth going to that amount of effort for so that all the nice kiddies at home can marvel at your amazing, long-haul logic. (Still wanna? LOL)

 

Sympathy play is this... she saw that I was bad after the break-up, went to counselling, feels bad about letting me go after I tried to get her back, but she just couldn't say yes because of fear that I will do the same thing again/trust (all things that she's said to my face). Stays friends in her mind makes her feel good in her heart (oh, look at me, I'm such an awesome person, I still care for someone that hurt my heart because he's not doing so well) and also to her social circle (oh, what a great person, that a--hole made her change countries, broke up with her on her bday and she still stayed friends with the guy, how amazing! - true story, told mother an incorrect tale, that we broke up amicably and we stayed as friends, obviously done to make me still look good, and herself good). And she thinks she has the balls to be able to do it because she has such a strong character... sounds reasonable? To me, it kinda

 

Never MIND what facade you get or how hard it's going to be to keep your composure under 'fire' (ice). She's entitled to her shield of ice and it's your job to be persistently well behaved, kind, humilitous, generous-spirited, respectful, gentle, patient, CHARMING AND GOOD-HUMOURED enough to melt it. Is this woman worth a bit of hard work to re-secure or isn't she? Who told you anything worth having came for free, anyway? What are you - Charity Boy? Wanna shiny penny in your little collect box, do ya? No... Didn't think so.

 

More to the point - was she piss-easy to melt the first time, was she?

 

Nothing's for free, but she was fairly piss-easy to melt the first time. I swept her off her feet in one pretty easy swoop. Not a lot of resistance after the second encounter. Very open, sympathetic, flirty woman, until you scorn her. Then she hates your guts and makes it as difficult as possible to get through to her as normal. That's what's the biggest throw-off.

 

What were you like during all those times wherein she fell in love with you? Be and do that but THEN some. Treat it like a first date and treat HER like a first date (a biggie). And if you detect hinted requests for reassurance and admissions that you can tell would be a deal-breakers by omission - give them to her.

 

Oooffff. Very funny, I knew exactly what to say in terms of compliments, very passionate, romantic and direct about wanting to get her and very much my own man and leader. Living life in the moment. Our first date was awkward because we knew we liked each other already and it was really formal. She was out of her element and nervous (quiet, quiet for her, like she was in fear of losing me by screwing up).

 

Once lovers don't want to become friends with their once-lovers. They merely use the cover of friendship for their re-approach whereby they retain enough control under better self-protection as they re-test the waters baby-step by baby-step. Granted, they may also use "friends" as their duping mechanism - to give you false hope so that they can continue getting the perks for none of the usual work and risk - but you should be able to tell which is the case pretty quickly. And unless she's pretty antisocial and unlikeable, I imagine, were friendship something she were in the market for, there are far, far, FAR easier friendships to be had out there than you/the ex, right?

 

Not usually, no. You usually move on to something fresh. I think her cover is the friends with benefits - she enjoys my place when she's in a dry spell, and she doesn't get hurt! I know what I want from this, so it will be going nowhere near that. Very social, but gives heart away to very, very, very few people. Not sure what it means, but you're 100% right. And moving on is the easiest option. I think the reason to come back is because she knows she opens up to very few, and once you've touched her heart, it's tough for her to forget you (see last boyfriend - on and off after break-up, in almost 6 month cycles)

 

Be your old self but new and improved self. And let her feel HER rightful portion of in control despite the confidence and positive optimism is (seemingly) all yours. Cos actions speak loudest and she iz acting. You could have this conversation ON THE PHONE, right? So why isn't she? Answer: Too Bleedin' Obvious.. certainly with those who have no fear and no emotional investment risk to cloud their powers of thinking.

 

She tried to call on my bday. I didn't answer. I offer in person, she backs out. Not sure where her head is at, but I think your explanation is most plausible. This is giving it way too easy to him, or I'm too weak right now to deal with him, I need to settle my stuff first because if I meet him, I will probably crack. I'm going with option #1 - she saw our message as very much pointed towards reconciliation, and she doesn't want to think that I can just get her right now, smoothly from bday message into meeting, into another meeting, then BAM! All I know is that I don't know. No reply to message is what I'm comfortable with, but it's not most effective towards the goal of getting her back. Something more clever is in order. Now the right attitude... humm.

 

Awww... that's unfortunate. To have a friend go away, that is. I was actually looking forward to catching up with you, but I guess we're going to have to do at another time. Let me know what works best for you. Have fun at the party and let's see when we can work something out that works for the both of us!

[Nattersmatter]

Eyup. I'm knackered (helped a friend move house) so be gentle with me, LOL...

 

I'll reply a bit later to the questions in the meeting reply. She just said the following, mostly word for word:

 

- hey mr.X, in the end I can't do (insert day), I made plans with friends, one of them is going back home for good and we're going to give the person a present and then I have class and then I go there

 

That sounds genuine to me (despite the bad grammar). Just enough detail to show she's picturing the scene, but neither too much detail (to suggest lack of confidence through telling a lie as calls for self-convincement).

 

- so I'm happy that you are well

- I didn't want you to be in bad shape

- and I'm sorry but I can't

 

Does she mean, I'm sorry THAT I can't? Is English her first language?

 

Yestreday, the reply to my message was "in principle I can meet with you after class". My message was essentially what we discussed before... with your additions and suggested subtractions...

 

Ah. In principle, means the same as maybe - yes (in theory), no (in practise) = DON'T KNOW. Maybe she wasn't quite ready, hadn't had enough time to get her head around the idea, or/and maybe she was waiting to know about this send off party.

 

I haven't replied yet, but I don't even know if I should reply really... the natural sequence would be set a new date from her end, but none of that... plus, 100% probability she comes around again to "test the waters", no? Do you wait, or do you reply to look good?

 

I think you're trying to justify your gut instinct to wait a bit using the wrong reason. It wasn't difficult to take note of the fact that last time when you seemed to be leaving the conversation thread undone (as if you were sulking or unimpressed with her answer) was when she couldn't bear the sudden silence and chased up. I reckon, note it you did. Certainly, I did so you must have.

 

The natural sequence if she had no front to uphold would be to set a new date from her end but if you'll recall, her ruse is that she doesn't want this...which is what makes it so hilarious that the minute you seemed accepting of that fact (yet possibly because you were too unimpressed or even disgruntled to speak), suddenly she's chasing up like she's the one who wanted it. After all, Don't Want It is as Don't Want It *does*, which is to go, PHEW, that was easy?!, when you fail to come back with any comment or argument.

 

IF, IF I were to reply, I would say...

 

Thanks for the letting me know, and I hope you enjoy the party??!!??!!

 

Although, I bet you're going to give me an enlightening rethink of that, and say exactly what dumb me should say...

 

What's with all the question marks and exclamation marks? Are you trying to make a petulant point? I wouldn't if I were you.

 

I suggest you take the pressure off whilst getting her wondering why and how you're so cool about it (preceded by another tiny delay like last time in order to give her the room to chase up again), and also try to get a friendly and very positive rally going (to get her remembering the good times (mucho importante!) as well as to keep her within needs-serviceable range (hers)). Something more like,

 

"As well as can be expected, all things considered, yes, thanks. You?

 

Re our coffee: Ah, that's a real shame. Never mind - I'll try you again anon when we're both less up against it. Have fun at your friend's send-off. What did you get her? And where is 'back home'?"

 

(And then insert a joke you've 'just today heard' or something amusing that happened on your way into work, whatever.... get the chatty ball rolling.)

 

Note the 'our' and the 'we'. Teamspeak. ;-) But note you're only behaving like a friend would [insert halo]. ;-) "Slowly, slowly, catchee [very nervous] monkey..." (Ever heard that one?)

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

No worries, I am obviously above appreciative of your analysis from a cold-blooded, intellectual perspective. English is not the language we communicate in, so everything is as close as I can get to the real thing. We speak in her 1st language, my 3rd. These are all messenger style messages so the grammar can be a bit off.

 

I think it may be a lie, but a well-concocted one to have me believe it's true. Usually these things are done on the weekend, no? Beyond the point, she has the right to lie.

 

My translation is 100% correct, so it's what it says. It makes it seem like, here's my excuse, but really, I just want to hide behind my cover of "I care about you.." to test waters, but honestly, I just don't feel good about it. She always uses the in principle phrase, it usually means it's booked in, but I might have to cancel if work comes up. Plus, the speed of the reply meant that she was in a buying mood - ie. she was convinced it was ok as a salesman would do if they have a client biting on the bait. As soon as she thought about it, she went cold...

 

Of course, I went cold because I was almost at closure last week. I'm shocked she chased, but I think this time she won't. Getting a reply back from me such as the one we worked on kinda gave that assurance, ah, he's back to being around, has no one and is likely to come back to me. This is the 4th or 5th time she's chased since breaking up, and it's always under the notion "are you ok?" It's becoming a pattern.

 

My punctuation = shrug shoulders, crazy face expression of bewilderment, have no clue what to say, to be honest. Far from petulence.

 

I like your message! So, would you like me to send this message to her today or tomorrow morning (ie. day of the coffee gone away)?

[Nattersmatter]

Sympathy play is this... she saw that I was bad after the break-up, went to counselling, feels bad about letting me go after I tried to get her back, but she just couldn't say yes because of fear that I will do the same thing again/trust (all things that she's said to my face).

 

That bit has nothing to do with sympathy. Like I said, it's quite easy to be sympathetic via purely email or, even easier, via memoriam... which you quickly dismiss from your mind whenever it comes itching. If you're utterly done with an ex, you tend not to look back because you can't AFFORD to evoke in yourself any emotions that'll get you nowhere.

 

Stays friends in her mind makes her feel good in her heart (oh, look at me, I'm such an awesome person, I still care for someone that hurt my heart because he's not doing so well) and also to her social circle (oh, what a great person, that a--hole made her change countries, broke up with her on her bday and she still stayed friends with the guy, how amazing! - true story, told mother an incorrect tale, that we broke up amicably and we stayed as friends, obviously done to make me still look good, and herself good). And she thinks she has the balls to be able to do it because she has such a strong character... sounds reasonable? To me, it kinda

 

(It kinda what?)

 

There are far easier and less negatively emotionally self-evoking and -provoking ways of looking good, believe you me. These are just side bonusus. The fact of the matter is she is not done with you because she is still *doing* with you. And that is that is that is that. If she were done with you she would more likely be staying RIGHT away from you whilst telling her friends what a prig you were hence how she's totally justified and exonerated from any blame whatsoever regarding how you henceforth feel or fare/don't feel or fare.

 

Nothing's for free, but she was fairly piss-easy to melt the first time. I swept her off her feet in one pretty easy swoop. Not a lot of resistance after the second encounter. Very open, sympathetic, flirty woman, until you scorn her. Then she hates your guts and makes it as difficult as possible to get through to her as normal. That's what's the biggest throw-off.

 

Problems self-monitoring and -regulating her emotions, you mean? (We know someone else like that, don't we children, LOL.) But anyway - too easy, eh?... and loook-whaat-hap-pened-too-YOU.

 

Leaving major chemistry out of it - you two rushed and cut corners and omitted vital processes, meaning a patchy foundation that couldn't take the weight of the actual building atop once it started to be laid. You're going to have to go back to Square One and this time do it properly.

 

Anyway, she certainly sounds and acts nothing like someone who hates your guts from where I'm sitting. She sounds exactly like a woman trying to reapproach you from behind a big fat excuse called, Concern only for you. She's trying to invite you to admit you're in pieces (hence the repetition) because, obviously, if you're in pieces you'll be too spent to rear up again. But to play up to the tacit Poor Wickle pretense wouldn't be the right way to go about this; it's no substitute for calm but in confident control (of yourself this time), despite her mind has been asking, What's the opposite of a wolf?, then coming up with the answer too far in the extreme (as humans are apt to do): a lamb. Well, the Poor Wickle Boy act gets you only so far and no farther, whereas, the impressively confident MAN gets you all the way there.

 

Oooffff. Very funny, I knew exactly what to say in terms of compliments,

 

(COUGH!) Don't you mean you knew exactly what you FELT like saying??? Did you contrive the super-fast progress? Did you have a prior gaping hole you were trying to make her fill a.s.a.p.? Did she?

 

very passionate, romantic and direct about wanting to get her and very much my own man and leader. Living life in the moment. Our first date was awkward because we knew we liked each other already and it was really formal. She was out of her element and nervous (quiet, quiet for her, like she was in fear of losing me by screwing up).

 

So, then, that's the part of Old You that you need to recapture, yes?

 

Not usually, no. You usually move on to something fresh. I think her cover is the friends with benefits - she enjoys my place when she's in a dry spell,

 

What do you mean? Explain that, please?

 

and she doesn't get hurt!

 

You mean she's naturally over-guarded?

 

I know what I want from this, so it will be going nowhere near that.

 

Good. And you have full control of that.

 

Very social, but gives heart away to very, very, very few people.

 

So that challenge formed a large part of her appeal to you?

 

Not sure what it means, but you're 100% right. And moving on is the easiest option.

 

Moving on is not the easiest option, not by a long chalk! Unfinished business, loose ends... VERY uncomfortable. Nobody likes having to start afresh, not unless the alternative is severely out of the question. Take a look at the Break-ups and No Contact threads, you'll see.

 

I think the reason to come back is because she knows she opens up to very few, and once you've touched her heart, it's tough for her to forget you (see last boyfriend - on and off after break-up, in almost 6 month cycles)

 

NOW you're talking! Don't touch that dial. If she's a "The Longest Goodbye" merchant, then, she's an "over"-attacher...aka a limpet. No wonder she's guarded.. she's got to be surer than most have to be before attaching THOSE suckers!... cos once they're attached, THEY'RE POSITIVELY SUPER-GLUED.

 

Use that 'rally'. Start earning love credits to work off that overdraft.

 

She tried to call on my bday. I didn't answer.

 

Tsk!

 

I offer in person, she backs out.

 

She's swinging wildly, by the sounds of it, between Daren't and Can't Not, and you obviously missed a positive wave and caught a negative one.

 

Not sure where her head is at, but I think your explanation is most plausible.

 

Heyyy - that makes two of us! LOL We can't both be wrong, can we, eh? ;-)

 

...This is giving it way too easy to him, or I'm too weak right now to deal with him, I need to settle my stuff first because if I meet him, I will probably crack.

 

Yup. Yup. Yup-yup-yup-yup, YUP! (And this time she has to tread more cautiously and carefully and do things properly so that clashes don't all happen at once!) Cellotape that dial, please.

 

I'm going with option #1 - she saw our message as very much pointed towards reconciliation, and she doesn't want to think that I can just get her right now, smoothly from bday message into meeting, into another meeting, then BAM!

 

GIANT 'YEP!!!'. (By jove - he's thinking rationally and intelligently at last! LOL)

 

All I know is that I don't know.

 

That up there is not the definition of don't know. You do know but you just daren't in case YOUR hopoes get majorly dashed again. You are her and she is you... It's a three-legged-race up the track and a three-legged-race back down again (or in your case, a tiny way down), meaning, if you're at X, feeling X and thinking X and fearing X, so is she.

 

No reply to message is what I'm comfortable with, but it's not most effective towards the goal of getting her back. Something more clever is in order. Now the right attitude... humm.

 

Tick!

 

Awww... that's unfortunate. To have a friend go away, that is. I was actually looking forward to catching up with you, but I guess we're going to have to do at another time. Let me know what works best for you. Have fun at the party and let's see when we can work something out that works for the both of us!

 

Will you look at that! - virtually a SNAP!!! (I swear on my son and hubby's lives, in fact, on the lives of everyone I know, that I did not read ahead (ask anyone here, they'll tell you I deliberately go para by para and message by message))! Good - we're on the same wavelength, that'll make things really easy.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

No worries, I am obviously above appreciative of your analysis from a cold-blooded, intellectual perspective. English is not the language we communicate in, so everything is as close as I can get to the real thing. We speak in her 1st language, my 3rd. These are all messenger style messages so the grammar can be a bit off.

 

LOL - I'm liking your rush to her defense when she's under 'attack', I have to say, heh-heh. Sorry... I'm a manipulative little wotsit with a suitcase-ful of litmus paper, you'll just have to get used to that. ;-)

 

Your English is better than hers, though, I have to say - IM or no IM.

 

I think it may be a lie, but a well-concocted one to have me believe it's true.

 

Nah. I can smell a lie at 10 paces. I didn't hear lie. She's as brain-scrambled as you at the moment - worse actually. The DefCon-ed make truly crap liars.

 

Usually these things are done on the weekend, no?

 

Not necessarily. HOWEVER - maybe it's a case of she doesn't exactly HAVE to attend, so maybe subconsciously she's hoping you'll suggest a weekend day instead? That doesn't seem implausible to me because, look at it from her point of view: during this spate of negativity, you'd figuratively-speaking been running up to the sea's edge, dipping a toe in and then going, EEK!, before running screaming back up the beach again. Maybe her test is whether you can keep coming forward IRRESPECTIVE of any iciness???

 

Maybe you should - "Oooh, will you look at that!?" - suddenly find an opening either this or next Saturday mid-morning for that coffee?

 

Thinking about it, why DIDN'T you suggest a Saturday?

 

Beyond the point, she has the right to lie.

 

Yup... which is better than telling the truth and possibly scuppering her chances forever, right?

 

My translation is 100% correct, so it's what it says. It makes it seem like, here's my excuse, but really, I just want to hide behind my cover of "I care about you.." to test waters, but honestly, I just don't feel good about it.

 

Tough. That's nothing to do with her and what she's doing, anyway. That's you being out of your comfort zone and letting fear persuade you OUT of the scary game (without looking pathetic to yourself).

 

She always uses the in principle phrase, it usually means it's booked in, but I might have to cancel if work comes up.

 

Yes - want to but might be unable. Precisely.

 

Plus, the speed of the reply meant that she was in a buying mood

 

Oh??? How quickly, pray, do tell!!?

 

- ie. she was convinced it was ok as a salesman would do if they have a client biting on the bait. As soon as she thought about it, she went cold...

 

Wave. Grief and fear come in *waves*. You're okay and then you're in tears.. you're okay again then in tears again... You feel bold and then lose your bottle... you feel bold again and then re-lose your bottle.... aaand so on and so forth... Come on, now, you know this.

 

Of course, I went cold because I was almost at closure last week. I'm shocked she chased, but I think this time she won't.

 

You've got a cloud of mixed emotions surging through your jello and clogging up your cylindry so forgive me if I say, what you "think" mostly means diddly squat right now. I'm looking at this OBJECTIVELY. Positive Reinforcement - her last chase-up earned her a choccie drop, did it not? Nuff said. If it works, we beans try it again. After all, weren't you just thinking of repeating your delay tactic? ;-)

 

Getting a reply back from me such as the one we worked on kinda gave that assurance, ah, he's back to being around, has no one and is likely to come back to me. This is the 4th or 5th time she's chased since breaking up, and it's always under the notion "are you ok?" It's becoming a pattern.

 

I don't give two hoots for what she merely THINKS she thinks. We're not working on her conscious mind, anyway. This is the 'long con' (but where no-one loses).

 

Ah-hah. So she's been repeating ANOTHER action that earns her choccie-drops, is she? Well, how very odd, LOL.

 

My punctuation = shrug shoulders, crazy face expression of bewilderment, have no clue what to say, to be honest. Far from petulence.

 

It came accross as you exhibiting your dubiousness and resentment, as in a dead-pan, OH, REALLY....riiiight, suuure you are...

 

I like your message! So, would you like me to send this message to her today or tomorrow morning (ie. day of the coffee gone away)?

 

How long was your prior delay - remind me?

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

That bit has nothing to do with sympathy. Like I said, it's quite easy to be sympathetic via purely email or, even easier, via memoriam... which you quickly dismiss from your mind whenever it comes itching. If you're utterly done with an ex, you tend not to look back because you can't AFFORD to evoke in yourself any emotions that'll get you nowhere.

 

Yes. I agree. She probably is genuinely wondering what happened between the supposed Facebook block and my birthday. I don't speak with a good friend of mine anymore (still good friends with my ex, but has not said one word about the break-up, plus I don't want to be so close to anymore - no potential to be a close friend, basically), I don't board a plane we were supposed to share for the holidays, she spots my best friends out twice and doesn't spot me with them, and I didn't even sniff around her for more than 2 months. But then, who cares, right? People change in days, weeks, even. You could almost get shot in the head, like me!

 

(It kinda what?)

 

There are far easier and less negatively emotionally self-evoking and -provoking ways of looking good, believe you me. These are just side bonusus. The fact of the matter is she is not done with you because she is still *doing* with you. And that is that is that is that. If she were done with you she would more likely be staying RIGHT away from you whilst telling her friends what a prig you were hence how she's totally justified and exonerated from any blame whatsoever regarding how you henceforth feel or fare/don't feel or fare.

 

The message to her friends... I changed countries for the guy and he didn't appreciate it... He has everything we want in a guy, but... My heart says yes, but my head says you can't trust him anymore.

 

(COUGH!) Don't you mean you knew exactly what you FELT like saying??? Did you contrive the super-fast progress? Did you have a prior gaping hole you were trying to make her fill a.s.a.p.? Did she?

 

I had gone 6 years without a relationship. I wanted someone, but I had no idea I would find it months before leaving to another country, and exactly 1 hour arriving from the greatest adventure of my life. She was jobless, out of hope for love and maybe a bit low on self-confidence. It was the perfect storm for a crazy summer love tale. Two people searching high and low for the right person, and they happen to meet and the most importune time.

 

What do you mean? Explain that, please?

 

Needs sex and doesn't want to do in a pure casual situation, and/or reassurance that she is sexy from someone that should still be attracted to her.

 

So that challenge formed a large part of her appeal to you?

 

Didn't figure it out until after. I fell way too hard in love to have thought that.

 

Moving on is not the easiest option, not by a long chalk! Unfinished business, loose ends... VERY uncomfortable. Nobody likes having to start afresh, not unless the alternative is severely out of the question. Take a look at the Break-ups and No Contact threads, you'll see.

 

Common them from her post-break up... I don't think I'll ever fall in love again. I'm just very particular and most guys don't give that feeling. My guess as to why she wants to try it out again. Instead of going through 100 guys, better to see what's going to happen to the 1 in 10000 I managed to find that I liked. If he goes, well, my luck in life...

 

Let's see if I can find a compromise between our two suggestions that's best and send it tomorrow. Although, I really feel like saying nothing and waiting. But, then again, I lose control and the wait can be much longer than either of us can imagine...

[nookbridge]

How long was your prior delay - remind me?

 

4 days, over the weekend. The day to meet up was supposed to be Thursday. I didn't suggest Saturday because we go out and I can only imagine, like me, we go out until 4 or 5 am on Friday, get up at 2 or 3 PM the next day and repeat... throwing away the weekend possibility.