Post-birthday NC break - How to React Next?

[nookbridge]

How about this - basically what you said above...

 

> I’m doing as well as can be expected, all things considered, yes, thanks. And yourself? About meeting up, it’s a real shame. Forget it, I’ll try you again some time soon when we’re both more available. Have fun at your friend’s go away party. What did you get the person in the end? (I couldn’t think of a good joke or story – and I usually have good ones for her on the tip of my tongue… ugh) So no story...

[Nattersmatter]

Look at your second quotes in message 22. You say, it's kinda (and then nothing).

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Sympathy play is this... she saw that I was bad after the break-up, went to counselling, feels bad about letting me go after I tried to get her back, but she just couldn't say yes because of fear that I will do the same thing again/trust (all things that she's said to my face). Stays friends in her mind makes her feel good in her heart (oh, look at me, I'm such an awesome person, I still care for someone that hurt my heart because he's not doing so well) and also to her social circle (oh, what a great person, that a--hole made her change countries, broke up with her on her bday and she still stayed friends with the guy, how amazing! - true story, told mother an incorrect tale, that we broke up amicably and we stayed as friends, obviously done to make me still look good, and herself good). And she thinks she has the balls to be able to do it because she has such a strong character... sounds reasonable? To me, it kinda

 

To me I kind of feel like she wants to look good, in front of everyone. I don't know, maybe I'm stupid, but I actually want to take this Concern For You wall is really what it is. I'm concerned for you because I once loved you, but I don't have feelings for you anymore and I care that you're ok, that's all. Although, in hindsight, she blamed me post break-up for getting pissed face and fooling around one night because she was fed up with being concerned for me and when it was vice versa, no one cared for her.

[Nattersmatter]

Yes. I agree. She probably is genuinely wondering what happened between the supposed Facebook block and my birthday.

 

She operates by patterns just as much as you. Knowing you did block her the first time she was bound to assume the same intention second time around. Again (you didn't answer me) - did you apologise? Also, did you ever UN-block her?

 

As to the rest, this is getting over-complicated so let's start numbering:

 

1.

The message to her friends... I changed countries for the guy and he didn't appreciate it... He has everything we want in a guy, but... My heart says yes, but my head says you can't trust him anymore.

 

Again, this is only what she thinks she thinks, whereas, her FEET are saying 'Not done yet'. And I'm not surprised, now on TWO fronts: she's a 'limpet' and she made the major investment of a life altering emigration. She won't want to throw that away if she can help it.

 

Trust gets built from nothing and can be re-built from nothing (not that you're starting from nothing, anyway). You didn't break it, anyway. You just dented and fractured it. But just as it took time to build (albeit patchily), so will it when it comes to re-strengthening it.

 

2.

Needs sex and doesn't want to do in a pure casual situation, and/or reassurance that she is sexy from someone that should still be attracted to her.

 

You either under-estimate her or you believed the hype. Needs must...and then we find some way to justify it.

 

3.

I don't speak with a good friend of mine anymore (still good friends with my ex, but has not said one word about the break-up, plus I don't want to be so close to anymore - no potential to be a close friend, basically), I don't board a plane we were supposed to share for the holidays, she spots my best friends out twice and doesn't spot me with them, and I didn't even sniff around her for more than 2 months. But then, who cares, right? People change in days, weeks, even. You could almost get shot in the head, like me!

 

Men are often a lot slower to come down and round than women. Two months would have felt like a major insult and sign that your feelings can't have been as genuine as you'd made out (she's using herself/other women as her yardstick, same as you were using how men feel and operate). So it's no wonder she's holding up a much bigger, higher hoop at this juncture.

 

4.

I had gone 6 years without a relationship. I wanted someone, but I had no idea I would find it months before leaving to another country, and exactly 1 hour arriving from the greatest adventure of my life. She was jobless, out of hope for love and maybe a bit low on self-confidence. It was the perfect storm for a crazy summer love tale. Two people searching high and low for the right person, and they happen to meet and the most importune time.

 

I imagine so were you lacking in confidence stepping into an alien environment. Anyone would be. But that explains why you clung too tightly to each other whereby you'd each had to subsequently kid yourselves that you'd done the corresponding WORK in order to justify and explain that premature closeness rather than what it was (fear in common).

 

Ref that three-legged-race - are you with the programme yet vis-a-vis how everything you accuse her of, I can too easily show applied or applies to you just as equally?

 

5.

Didn't figure it [the challenge aspect] out until after. I fell way too hard in love to have thought that.

 

Yes, precisely. You both were too high on Honeymoon Heroin and the mutual comfort-blanketing as dealt with your fish-out-of-water discomfort to be capable of clear-sighted, rational thought. You weren't test-driving each other as digiliently as you should have been, were you. You were both too busy marvelling at each other's leather interiors and fancy telemetric controls to keep an eye on the speed and rate of cornering, etc.

 

Not that finding someone partly a challenge is a problem - if it's mutual, that is, or compatible with an 'extra-curricular' urge of theirs. But it is if that urge is stronger than the one to pairbond. But, anyway... The challenge for you was cracking the extra-tough shell. What in you posed as the challenge aspect for her? You need to think long and hard about this because you'll need to re-employ it (initially, anyway).

 

6.

Common them from her post-break up... I don't think I'll ever fall in love again. I'm just very particular and most guys don't give that feeling. My guess as to why she wants to try it out again. Instead of going through 100 guys, better to see what's going to happen to the 1 in 10000 I managed to find that I liked. If he goes, well, my luck in life...

 

Yes. It was obviously a fantastic relationship until the problems incurred by the need to 'share a slightly too-small chair' occurred to the pair of you which, because you'd both sat in it far too deeply from the word Go, was downright awkward and uncomfortable, often painful, as you both tried to negotiate whom would shift whose elbow out of the way and whose bum was taking up too much room to be fair, etc., etc. This is where sinking into the chair together has to be done at a more manageable pace, thus neither of you has too much to whinge and criticise over as you establish dual comfort depth quotient by depth quotient, rather than experiencing the clash of elbows AND knees AND seating positions/portions AND bumping of heads as you fidget around a deux. Actually NOT rocket science when you picture the process in that symbolic way, is it. Tell me that picture does it for you in terms of instant understanding about the pairbonding process each and every step (or shuffle and kerfuffle) of the way, and I'll continue the analogy from there?

 

Question: Was the sex absolutely mountaintop like nothing either of you had ever experienced before?

 

7.

Let's see if I can find a compromise between our two suggestions that's best and send it tomorrow. Although, I really feel like saying nothing and waiting. But, then again, I lose control and the wait can be much longer than either of us can imagine...

 

"Let's see, Yes, Although, But..." ??? Was that supposed to be some sort of decision? Would you like to try that again, Mr Feint Heart from FeintHeartVille, taking a better look at your answer of how long your prior delay was and taking in to and out of account the fact that it coincided with a weekend?

 

And can you give me that reason against you suggesting a Saturday again, please, in plain English (I didn't understand a word of it)?

 

9.

How about this - basically what you said above...

 

> I’m doing as well as can be expected, all things considered, yes, thanks. And yourself? About meeting up, it’s a real shame. Forget it, I’ll try you again some time soon when we’re both more available. Have fun at your friend’s go away party. What did you get the person in the end? (I couldn’t think of a good joke or story – and I usually have good ones for her on the tip of my tongue… ugh) So no story...

 

Forget it? Yeuch, HOW NEGATIVE! How resentful! Cut out all such 'leaking' in future, please. Substitute with something akin to, 'No worries for now,...'

 

Also cut out 'more available' - it's too suggestive. Back to 'both less up against it' or some other equivalent, please.

 

You still have time to think up or go on-line searching for some little 'funny' or joke. Suggest you do so. Your ability to demonstrate a good sense of humour under fire as well as to demonstrate you're *not* as under fire (suffering and in less-than-optimum control) as much as she is trying to insist/beg/dare you to admit you are, is imperative. After all, haven't you noticed what you've just said, i.e. that normally you CAN be amusing at the drop of a hat and what it means that suddenly you're incapable?

 

Patterns. Signs. (You know the drill, right? ;-))

 

xoxo

 

PS: "Kinda" WHAT? (Ignore if you've already answered)

[Nattersmatter]

To me I kind of feel like she wants to look good, in front of everyone. I don't know, maybe I'm stupid, but I actually want to take this Concern For You wall is really what it is. I'm concerned for you because I once loved you, but I don't have feelings for you anymore and I care that you're ok, that's all.

 

Yep - you're emotionally over-aroused and 'crowded' as well as attention-over-engaged, so that certainly makes you apt to be stupid. But - you might notice - it comes in those good ol' WAVES.

 

If you re-read from one post of yours to the next tomorrow, with a fresh head, you'll be able to see it: stupid, clever, stupid, clever (more or less)....

 

Although, in hindsight, she blamed me post break-up for getting pissed face and fooling around one night because she was fed up with being concerned for me and when it was vice versa, no one cared for her.

 

VEEEERRY INTERRESTINK, MEESTERR BONDT...! Do tell. (Tip: *do*)

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I'm deadbeat. Back tomorrow. xoxo

[nookbridge]

I'm deadbeat. Back tomorrow. xoxo

 

I'm sorry for tiring you... I really do appreciate your advice! It's been fantastic!

[Nattersmatter]

Unless your name is secretly Lisa and I helped you move house yesterday during a full-blown blizzard(???), er, no, you didn't tire me, LOL. Why - do ya wanna tire me? (Oooh, I say, Matron!!!) ROFL!!

 

(Ignore me) (I tend to).

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

She operates by patterns just as much as you. Knowing you did block her the first time she was bound to assume the same intention second time around. Again (you didn't answer me) - did you apologise? Also, did you ever UN-block her?

 

I apologized after the block how many ever months ago was it - maybe 10 months ago. Then I was accused of putting a restriction on her profile 3 months ago, during the break-up stage, which I didn't do. In reply, she lashed out with an epic rant... "I never hide anything anything from you, but it looks like you have a lot to hide from me... well, you know what, now I'm going to defriend you and I don't want you in my life nor hear from you nor anything. Go away, have a nice life!". Me begs that I did squat via IM. Next morning... "You did it before, so you're obviously going to do it again... I understand you live your own life now and I get that you want me not to see your stuff, and it's good I'm happy to see you go out, and I hope you're picking up lots of girls with the language skills you have because I'm doing well myself". I reply briefly, then she calls. But she didn't go back on the unfriend. Then again, you know this story.

 

 

1. Again, this is only what she thinks she thinks, whereas, her FEET are saying 'Not done yet'. And I'm not surprised, now on TWO fronts: she's a 'limpet' and she made the major investment of a life altering emigration. She won't want to throw that away if she can help it.

 

I have a suspicion she's probably going back home after living a little bit more adventure. If there wasn't such an economic crisis, this would've happened earlier. And I have to worry about myself too, but then again, I prefer to live day by day.

 

2. You either under-estimate her or you believed the hype. Needs must...and then we find some way to justify it.

 

I think she tried to reverse roles by doing it. I'm the one who before slept around a lot, so it might be a case of doing what he does to get back at home and take advantage of the situation. Albeit, in a druken state.

 

3. Men are often a lot slower to come down and round than women. Two months would have felt like a major insult and sign that your feelings can't have been as genuine as you'd made out (she's using herself/other women as her yardstick, same as you were using how men feel and operate). So it's no wonder she's holding up a much bigger, higher hoop at this juncture.

 

Interesting. I would have figured the longer there's NC, the less insulting it would be to her. But then again, post break-up was a mess. We contacted each other waaaaay too much. So I put myself behind by not leaving her alone, instead of leaving her alone. Ufffffff.

 

Ref that three-legged-race - are you with the programme yet vis-a-vis how everything you accuse her of, I can too easily show applied or applies to you just as equally?

 

I won't hide from that. Yes.

 

5. Not that finding someone partly a challenge is a problem - if it's mutual, that is, or compatible with an 'extra-curricular' urge of theirs. But it is if that urge is stronger than the one to pairbond. But, anyway... The challenge for you was cracking the extra-tough shell. What in you posed as the challenge aspect for her? You need to think long and hard about this because you'll need to re-employ it (initially, anyway).

 

I think that the challenge was can I keep up with his expectations of his perfect woman. A woman who is adventurous, interesting intellectually, good at making love and has his stuff together. Why does he want me? I think she was always afraid of losing me, figuring she wasn't good enough for me. I don't think I helped out the cause, but I think coming in she was fearful of the expectations.

 

6. Actually NOT rocket science when you picture the process in that symbolic way, is it. Tell me that picture does it for you in terms of instant understanding about the pairbonding process each and every step (or shuffle and kerfuffle) of the way, and I'll continue the analogy from there?

 

Question: Was the sex absolutely mountaintop like nothing either of you had ever experienced before?

 

Good analogy. Re: the uncomfortable question, from me it never was exceptional, but I believe for her it was. Other aspects were mountaintop, but not the act.

 

7. "Let's see, Yes, Although, But..." ??? Was that supposed to be some sort of decision? Would you like to try that again, Mr Feint Heart from FeintHeartVille, taking a better look at your answer of how long your prior delay was and taking in to and out of account the fact that it coincided with a weekend?

 

And can you give me that reason against you suggesting a Saturday again, please, in plain English (I didn't understand a word of it)?

 

I will reply. The reply should be tomorrow (last one was Thursday, I ignored her Friday message until Monday... this was on Tuesday, so a bit longer would take us to a Friday being appropriate). I'm against Saturday because I go out, and don't wake up until the early afternoon, and I'm all scrambled and can't wait to repeat Sat. night. I'm just a mess on the weekends, and I think the same exists for her. How about Sunday afternoon?

 

9. Forget it? Yeuch, HOW NEGATIVE! How resentful! Cut out all such 'leaking' in future, please. Substitute with something akin to, 'No worries for now,...'

 

Also cut out 'more available' - it's too suggestive. Back to 'both less up against it' or some other equivalent, please.

 

You still have time to think up or go on-line searching for some little 'funny' or joke. Suggest you do so. Your ability to demonstrate a good sense of humour under fire as well as to demonstrate you're *not* as under fire (suffering and in less-than-optimum control) as much as she is trying to insist/beg/dare you to admit you are, is imperative. After all, haven't you noticed what you've just said, i.e. that normally you CAN be amusing at the drop of a hat and what it means that suddenly you're incapable?

 

Patterns. Signs. (You know the drill, right? ;-))

 

Yes. Remember that I have to translate, eh? I can't think of a good replacement for up against it. Let's try this again...

 

I’m doing as well as can be expected, all things considered, yes, thanks. And yourself? About meeting up, it’s a shame. Let's leave it for when we're not so tight for time. I hope you had fun at your friend’s go away party. What did you get the person in the end? Insert appropriate joke.... arrrgghhhhh

[Nattersmatter]

You didn't tell it quite like that the first time. OMG - that was too funny. I shouldn't laugh but, jeez, couldn't she hear herself? (Paranoiac insecurity and jealousy, anyone?) Still, it answers the question of why she keeps using this 'I'm only asking after you out of friendly concern' b*llocks... cos after THAT little "never-never-never-never!!" rant, she'd need to avoid serious egg on her face. In fact, it reminds me of that classic scene you get in sitcoms where the disgrunted party screams that their partner will "never see them again, ever, so there!" and then slams the door on his/her way out, only to have to sheepishly re-enter the room 2 minutes later to retrieve their forgotten coat or handbag or whatever. LOL

 

You do realise her reaction to you having blocked her followed by (she thought) reinstating access only to a newly-restrictive level (which was probably done automatically when FB did another update to their security system) was to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5 - this being, "he's got a new woman already (so he must have been seeing her whilst we were still going)" - don't you?

 

Anyway - your point, that you apologised, is noted. It would have taken her quite a while to work out her misconstrument and misassumptions, however. I imagine she's only just started to, in fact, hence yet another reason for not wanting to admit that she's asking after you and chasing you when you fail to reply within a reasonable timeframe because she's still attached and interested. Hmm... When the first appropriate opportunity presents itself, you'll have to try to casually slip into the conversation that you're single and were right from the break-up (so as to encourage her to be more bold and ditch this silly ruse of hers).

 

 

 

What grounds do you have to suspect this? Do you think she was trying to evoke such an inkling on your part (in order to get you panicked into a higher gear) via the fact of mentioning this "friend" who's "going back home"? Even if that's why the mention, that doesn't necessarily mean she IS intending to go back home, though, does it, so - what grounds?

 

 

 

Are you saying you slept around ON HER??? Or do you mean you used to be a bit of a tart BEFORE the pair of you met?

 

Does she drink a lot when stressed, then?

 

 

 

To a woman in DefCon5/Situation Normal with fully working jello cylindry, yes. But that wasn't her, is it. A woman in DefCon1 or 2, which is what she'd have been at that point, has a dire sense of need from having had her 'life supply' so drastically cut without any way of knowing when or whether it'll ever return, so she'll naturally try to justify her urge to have you/her Honeymoon Heroin supply back now-now-now! by twisting the facts and colouring that impatience as something far more lofty - hence what was always reasonable and sensible will, just because it no longer happens to suit her, suddenly get repainted as UN-reasonable and NON-sensible. (Men do this, too, of course. It just depends on whomever is the one being effectively ostracised because ostracisation is every human's most deeply primitive fear which sends them into utter panic like nothing else... and this is why your prior habit of cutting and running without citing any end date was too cruel. Do that repeatedly, however, and what happens is a backfiring through the fact that you basically treat them inadvertently to Exposure Therapy (de-sensitization) until eventually you say or do "I'm Off!", to which they turn around and reply, 'Fine - I no longer give a sh*t' (and genuinely mean it).)

 

In summary, it's un-reasonable and non-sensible until such time as her urgent need has re-fallen below a critical level, whereupon she then regains proper perspective and sees the authenticity in the point whereat you've begun to come knocking once more. Two months *is* pushing it a bit too far into the grey area (where you might be genuinely seeking reconciliation or might just be seeking a consolation prize or FWB arrangement), however. But you can't call it two months unless there was ZERO contact in that entire time. If there were even very brief texts or even anonymous phonecall attempts, that counts as contact.

 

So - let's just make sure: how long ago did absolute-zero contact start?

 

 

 

Have you in a roundabout fashion just answered my last question, I wonder? (I still need to know the exact, to-the-hour, period, though.)

 

 

 

Bra-VO! That's more like it! Keep that up because - talking of shrunken perceptivity and perspective - taking the blame is a form of power, along with which comes responsibility and freedom to redress (- reconstruct) which, as I say, is the man's responsibility if he wants to subscribe to the societally-tacit understanding of men being the bravest movers and shakers in this world.

 

A woman who truly loves you won't WANT to let you take all the blame, anyway... not really. Maybe in the first 'five minutes' for the ego placation of it... but pretty soon - in the case of you having taken TOO much of the blame, i.e. some of hers, I mean - she'll revert to fighting to get some of it back, LOL, whereupon you get this ridiculous argument: "No, it was my fault/No, it was mine/Nooo, it was MINE!" and so on.

 

Who CARES who threw the first stone, anyway? Truth always, always comes out sooner or later (not least because self-deluding creates an intolerable itch and because actions and (whoops!) replicated actions speak louder).

 

And on that note - honesty (yours) is truth and truth is REALITY (real reality rather than a self-fashioned version!) and only if you deal with the reality of a problem can you work out and then apply the effective REMEDY. So this will speed things up nicely - certainly from your end... although - given that she's obviously competitive (shown by how she takes your lead and gets sucked into the drama rather than staying objective and detached) - the more honest your own attitude the more honest her own will unconsciously and automatically become.

 

 

 

All that tells me is NEITHER of you could believe your so-called luck! Doesn't it you? Also - if you believe that it was PURELY down to luck, than that renders the event as having been entirely arbitrary, meaning LOSS would be just as arbitrary, and leaving you both 'braced' for it. And, of course, this realisation wouldn't have struck until the Honeymoon Heroin high had begun to get adapted to, allowing the habitual fears and anxieties to start to flood back in.

 

And doesn't this whole product serve to moreover drive home how you should both have gone at a pace that was far more gentle and forgiving where getting your little heads around the seemingly undeserved situation was concerned?

 

Conclusion: Amazing Chemistry / Not enough time in which trust could get built up as saves the day once clashes as produce fear of each other begin. That's not exactly the same as you two having been incompatible, is it. And to support this, I note that not once have you mentioned or alluded to attitudinal or operational incompatibilities... So there you go. This is not going to be difficult. It relies only on staying newly calm, positive, encouraging, non-threatening and considerate until she regains her confidence to get back into that deep and squishy chair with you.

 

When you say you don't think you helped the cause, what do you mean exactly?

 

 

 

Que?? Explicas, por favor? And do you mean to say, For me it was never exceptional, rather than from? Because if you do, then what we have here is merely a difference in where your respective symptoms of fear and mistrust manifest. Otherwise, what, precisely, are the relationship aspects that 'did it' for you and which now have you so keen on getting her back?

 

 

 

Good!... To show her that you're no longer a panic-and-run merchant, you have to CONSISTENTLY AND SUSTAINEDLY fail to ever press the Eject button. Replying consistently whilst incorporating those little, tried and tested manipulation tactics (like this slight delay), is key.

 

Trust - if you want to know its precise definition - is this: You can increasingly PREDICT your lover's every thought, response and move given any circumstance or situation whether in itself or by logical extrapolations. So now you can see perfectly why consistency is key, can't you.

 

 

 

Assuming I've read you right and if we factor out the intervening weekend, you replied to her Friday message the very next day (Monday) yes? - hence (no, ref what I've just explained, we don't INCREASE the delay!) your reply should have been on Wednesday - yesterday.

 

Oh, well...Spilt milk. What you have to do to damage-limit is demonstrate that it would have been sent yesterday were it not forrrrr.... (insert highly plausible excuse that she's experienced you being subjected to once or twice before). If you can't think of a good excuse, try, you jarred your middle finger whereby typing was too painful (and sound embarrassed at the patheticness of it as well as make a self-deprecating joke out of it). ...Little lie for the power of good (both of yours, hers especially), plus reassuring her out of DefCon2 or 3 trumps any potentially over-active moralism, here, anyway.

 

Keeping with that armchair analogy, getting her to willingly re-seat herself next to you requires you to be seen to have sat back down there FIRST *annnnd* whereby she can plainly see you've made a conscious effort to create far more room for her (and her over-sensitive little frame with its still-sore nerves) than you did on all previous occasions.

 

People - women especially - ADORE that comfy chair, Sam-I-Am, and would rather keep the one they had than ditch it in favour of a new one.

 

(BTW - I put your own DefCon state at 4, triggerable back up to 3. You failed to notice the deliberate omission of number 8, Mr Attention-Deficited/Diverted from YearnVille, LOL. ;-))

 

This suspicious-smelling nugget worries me for it's contradictoriness, though, I have to say:

 

"I'm against Saturday because I go out, and don't wake up until the early afternoon, and I'm all scrambled and can't wait to repeat Sat. night. I'm just a mess on the weekends, and I think the same exists for her. "

 

Something worth having is considered worth the hard work and/or sacrifice it takes to get it. (- Discuss....)

 

 

 

Si, penso muchos otros personas, tambien. ;-p

 

 

 

Yes (hard work and sacrifice) - LET'S. ;-)

 

 

 

(LOL, I wouldn't insert arrrgghhhhh if *I* were you!)

 

Ref bold - what do you think?

 

(Oh - and 10 Pence for the lame-ish joke, please?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: Pertinent joke:

 

Why did 6 fear 7?

Because 789.

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

Many months were in between the block and the supposed restriction. I don't know why the heck she thought I did something, but it was right after a friend put up party pictures with new girls. Right after this episode started the NC that just ended.

 

 

 

Which ruse? Yo no comprendo. I don't think she cares that I'm single. If she did, she would've done something more by now. Last Friday, I saw her at the bar talking to a guy. I walked right by her because I had to grab my coat and leave. I was high on confidence after snatching an attractive girl's number (whom I went on a date with today and was good!). As I walk by to leave, I brush her arm at the limit of getting her head to swivel. No reply back from her, and then again, I didn't turn around. I think she has no jealousy in her, to be honest. As to why I didn't want to talk to her. Didn't feel like it in a bar atmosphere.

 

 

 

Never. Never looked at anyone else, to be honest. I loved her. Before, yes.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

9 weeks of zero contact. She was expecting to see me after 6 weeks - same flight, but I bailed. Then she sent an are you ok message, followed by bday message. Maybe why she said she was a little bit worried about me last week. I don't know.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

I said some stuuuupid stuff... she asked me if she was my best partner between the sheets, and I said no. That was the worst one. I just didn't make her feel comfortable in herself, and when you're already not with the highest self-esteem...

 

 

 

 

Conversationalist, enthusiastic, funny, love-making (up until the point where things are done).

 

 

 

I've had no internet at my apartment (which is true, btw)... is that good enough?

 

 

 

FYI, there was no 8. Yes, I probably lack the attention I think I deserve from others. I won't run from that assessment.

 

 

 

I don't disagree, but she'll likely say no anyways. I wouldn't mind, but I guess you don't know until you try.

 

I don't like the bold, eh. The joke, ufff.

[nookbridge]

My message...

 

Sorry for getting back to you only now. Internet hasn’t been working since I got back home Wednesday. I’m doing as well as can be expected, all things considered, yes, thanks. And yourself? About meeting up, it’s a real shame. Let's leave it for when we're not so tight for time. I hope you had fun at your friend’s go away party? What did you get the person in the end?

 

For you, reason #145 why I love (insert country) –

Paying for my groceries at (insert store) today…

Cashier: You know, you kind of look like -

Me: Yes, I know, (insert famous rapper). So what? Does it mean I get a discount on my (favourite drink)?

Cashier: No. (A few seconds pass, and he looks at me) Have you ever thought of getting plastic surgery? I wouldn’t ever want to look like you. Women must not like you…

Me: Aww, thanks, have a nice day too.

[Nattersmatter]

(Bloody cheek of the checkout guy! *Women* must not like you? Me I'd have "Nuff Said-ed" him by singing "Iiiiiiiiiiiii'm e-very wo-man" by ChakaKhan at him, or, scrutinising his face, said, 'Plastic surgery? Are you sure you'd recommend it?' So anyway - he was obviously jealous as sin, eh!)

 

Anyway - time is a-ticking...

 

Yes, that excuse is perfecto. Send it now (assuming wherever you are it's not very late at night? If so do it tomorrow morning) and I'll address your other details tomorrow.

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

(Bloody cheek of the checkout guy! *Women* must not like you? Me I'd have "Nuff Said-ed" him by singing "Iiiiiiiiiiiii'm e-very wo-man" by ChakaKhan at him, or, scrutinising his face, said, 'Plastic surgery? Are you sure you'd recommend it?' So anyway - he was obviously jealous as sin, eh!)

 

Anyway - time is a-ticking...

 

Yes, that excuse is perfecto. Send it now (assuming wherever you are it's not very late at night? If so do it tomorrow morning) and I'll address your other details tomorrow.

 

xoxo

 

Well, I send the message, but in decomposed chunks, IM style, and she's online (I have no control over this) trying to respond back to me, midway through. She obviously wanted to spark a conversation through there, but as I want to steer away from IM and move it to in person, I stop replying once I got to the joke. I'll let you know what she said later. I think I did the right thing? (please, hoping for positive reinforcement)

 

Check your messages for the play-by-play... it's too much to put on here.

[Nattersmatter]

 

 

I don't need to address your previous details as yet, any more.

 

She responded MIDWAY THROUGH? Tick, Tick, Tick!

And to encourage the conversation's continuance? Champagne cork!

 

But why did you just stop replying? If you want to flatteringly move the conversation to an easier and more fulfilling media, why didn't you just say so? RSVP. What did I say about NOT cutting and running any more?

 

What was her response to your sudden cessation?

 

Oh - scrub that - I've just read where you say you'll go into more detail later, plus we have your PM yet to come (I deliberately didn't read it when I replied to say put it where it belongs (here)) so I don't know what it said yet. But it certainly didn't look 'too much' if you mean length-wise? And if you mean, over-personal bits, well - that's tough if they're pertinent/evidence.. however, that's not to say you can't 'clean them up' a bit first, right?

 

Yes, you did the START of the right thing (bar the bailing out bit). Nice one!

 

How do you feel, now?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

By the way - you're in the same boat as Rocknroller as well as at the exact same stage of the proceedings more or less - if you want to check out his thread? It's very useful in terms of realising this is the 'same ol' threatre production, just different venues and leading actors'.

 

 

 

xoxo

[nookbridge]

By the way - you're in the same boat as Rocknroller as well as at the exact same stage of the proceedings more or less - if you want to check out his thread? It's very useful in terms of realising this is the 'same ol' threatre production, just different venues and leading actors'.

 

 

 

xoxo

 

Meh, I would say there's stronger differences than would meet the eye. I think the wall I have to scale is probably higher and the "friends" pose may be more realistic than one would perceive.

[nookbridge]

She loves to chat via IM, but it means nothing. It's like trying to force the conversation through there instead of in person, where it's a different animal. Also, no personal questions asked. She replying means nothing. She very rarely will ignore you. I stopped replying because it would be as if to say "ok, I'll take this because I'm desperate", when in turn, I'm asking to get together in person. Plus, I was working at the time...

[nookbridge]

I sent the first few sentences, but as single sentences instead of the whole block to give appearance of writing at the moment, but she was online and responded mid-message. I finished sending the joke, ignoring her messages and let her just send messages. Sequence...

 

Me: I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier blah blah blah

> About coffee, it's a shame blah blah blah

> I hope you enjoyed the party blah blah blah. What did you get him/her? (friend of mine saw a big group, including her, out last night, but says she didn't see him)

 

Ex: We got together to see if we could come up with something to give.

> We are going to make a collage

> with our photos

> and sign it and everything

> with messages

> and tomorrow we eat at that person's house

> and we have to get drunk

> I am doing very well (my name)

> now I am enjoying this

> this experience

 

Me: Copy and pasted the joke quickly to get out

 

Ex: haha

> The woman must not like you.

> They always ask for my driver's license at the store

> And seeing my age they say wow

> That I really love

> What a *****, the cashier

> But if you should be picking up girls a lot here

(4 or 5 minutes pass, sent from mobile)

By the way, my host family has a new member

 

So, typical scenario here. Lots of common themes from before - I am doing really well (I probably am not), I'm getting drunk (she knows how much I don't like girls that drink too much - possible attempt to make me want to look away from her), you should be picking up a lot of girls (again, look away from me, or trying to get me to say yes, but I want you specifically - perhaps), I am doing well without you, enjoying this experience (ie. without you, it's awesome).

 

Let me know what you think and how I should act. I think it should be along the lines of responding on Monday and saying....

 

That's great, I am happy you're enjoying the experience. It seems like you are quite busy and have quite a lot to talk about. Let's see if we can make some time to get together and do a little catch up in person next weekend. (or something said in a more clever fashion, obviously)

[Nattersmatter]

I appreciate IM isn't ideal but you have to re-start somewhere AND, as I said, rise above any surface discouragement whilst concentrating on the ACTIONS. You may THINK that she'd reply given any circumstance but... not in YOUR case, she wouldn't - not if she abhorred you or was truly done with you.

 

 

 

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND your state of negativity right now, mate. I mean - I do (why do you think I asked you how you feel?)... it's not as good as you would have wanted. But look at the size of it! And she responded to you and what you were saying as well as sympathised over the cashier situation and demonstrated empathy towards you by laughing at your joke. She also, note, didn't exactly like the picture of you picking up girls. ;-) And then, even after all that, she came back a SECOND time, trying to CONTINUE the conversation by taking it onto a new topic!

 

 

 

More like, trying to provoke a reaction by claiming she was defying your prior advice over her drinking and TRYING TOO HARD to give you the impression she's Alright, Jack.

 

 

 

Strange you'd want to know what *I* think when you purport to be so sure the conclusion was all sewn up, doncha think? Come off it - you know you're just being negative. Well, aside from said over-expectations, you were bound to get a reaction from interacting with her... that's natural and nothing to worry about (and will pass).

 

Well, you can go pout in the corner if you like but, me? I'm air-punching! I see veeeery thin ends of wedges and from there can work out perfectly easily what the thick end looks like. It's my curse/talent.

 

 

 

Oh, God, yes - definitely make use of that hanging thread (about the new member) for responding on Monday! Your excuse for the delay is down to the fact she paused for 5 minutes, during which you thought she was finished (and were dying to go to the loo, LOL).

 

 

 

Apart from my gentlemanly addition, I think that's an excellent reply! (You're getting better, look.

 

Take a tip: you don't have to hair-shirt yourself and your expectations just because it's not the full nine yards that you'd want now-now-now. By all means HAVE hope and positivity - self-fulfilling prophesy and all that. But just be aware that, as I said before, this is not some 5 minute project. You should, however, see the what seems like almost imperceptible progress speed up at some point. Likewise, because she's naturally vacillating, you'll also see yourself alarmed and disappointed at times when she seems to go backwards. It'll be a case of two steps forward, 1.5 back, probably... just like a CAR that isn't quite properly enough in gear (lurch, stop, reverse a little, lurch...).

 

**Note you flooded and pressed the ejecter button again? Bend over, you...! LOL

 

Otherwise - GOOD!

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: To keep the flow even if she initially declines your invitation, ask her at the end if she's heard any good jokes lately. xoxo

[nookbridge]

I appreciate IM isn't ideal but you have to re-start somewhere AND, as I said, rise above any surface discouragement whilst concentrating on the ACTIONS. You may THINK that she'd reply given any circumstance but... not in YOUR case, she wouldn't - not if she abhorred you or was truly done with you.

 

It's because I know her very, very well. One would naturally ask why I would then ask for advice if I know her that well, and that's because I don't know my break-up ex. It's a mixbag of stuff and you see attitudes and responses back to things, and you have no idea what they mean. Sometimes it's a subliminal message (which is what she did a lot in our relationship and made my life maddening at times) and sometimes it's 100% truth. She is a very curious person, so that's why I say she wants to know about my state. She cares yes, but more as a news piece, as I care because I want to get back to him. At least that's my opinion. She gives a **** about her previous exes, guys that once asked her out, guys that she's made out with in the past, etc., so that's where my dark cloud attitude comes from.

 

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND your state of negativity right now, mate. I mean - I do (why do you think I asked you how you feel?)... it's not as good as you would have wanted. But look at the size of it! And she responded to you and what you were saying as well as sympathised over the cashier situation and demonstrated empathy towards you by laughing at your joke. She also, note, didn't exactly like the picture of you picking up girls. ;-) And then, even after all that, she came back a SECOND time, trying to CONTINUE the conversation by taking it onto a new topic!

 

I feel like, oh boy, same games, how do I make the best of this to turn it around (what is the best thing to do now?). If it was just any other girl, it would be the same old process. But this is a whole new element. I'm positive because I used to be a salesperson and I know anything out of someone's mouth is a buy signal, and you just have to know how to spin it your way to get the deal. Now, the reason I'm not a salesperson any more is because I wasn't able to turn enough of these denials into buys. I don't think she cares that I'm picking up other girls per se, she's just more jealous that I'll probably find someone before she does. Honest truth. She's told me I don't know how many times, I hope you're picking up many girls, or find someone other girl whose heart you haven't hurt, not mine. I don't know if it means go away from me, don't try me, or what? Maybe go looking hard and you'll see what you've lost is pretty good?

 

And my openness to communication is the only bargaining chip I have to speak to me in person, really. If we talk over IM, convenient excuse not to talk in person. And I repeat, unless you cross the woman's respect line, she will never ignore anyone. Ever.

 

More like, trying to provoke a reaction by claiming she was defying your prior advice over her drinking and TRYING TOO HARD to give you the impression she's Alright, Jack.

 

I wouldn't doubt either are correct. To test if I'm still going to be controlling. To see if I have the expression that we are together any more.

 

Well, you can go pout in the corner if you like but, me? I'm air-punching! I see veeeery thin ends of wedges and from there can work out perfectly easily what the thick end looks like. It's my curse/talent.

 

When you are scared not to lose, instead of trying to win, you'll have my attitude. It's just that I always screw it up by saying the wrong thing or acting in the wrong way, post-break. That's where it comes from. Zero confidence. It'll come once I start interacting properly.

 

Oh, God, yes - definitely make use of that hanging thread (about the new member) for responding on Monday! Your excuse for the delay is down to the fact she paused for 5 minutes, during which you thought she was finished (and were dying to go to the loo, LOL).

 

Apart from my gentlemanly addition, I think that's an excellent reply! (You're getting better, look.

 

My fear is not being able to steer the conversation the right way and have the right reply at the moment. I think I can keep my emotions level now and be conciliatory, it's just I have to be up against this coolness that it s the opposite of what you're used to. And, I know every good thing I do gives me tiny credits, but any poor response can cut it all off. High-risk, no? And I still like I don't know how to get this so it will be towards the path of reconciliation, and not be people catching up. But then, I can't pressure on her...

[Nattersmatter]

It's because I know her very, very well. One would naturally ask why I would then ask for advice if I know her that well, and that's because I don't know my break-up ex.

 

Well, all I hear you saying there is, I know her very well but actually I don't. That's right - No, you don't. Not behaviourally. You only got to see one side of her when things were starting out and positive. Now you're being presented with a new and different aspect. So you cannot use that prior yardstick, certainly not to that level of reliability, despite there are obviously PERSONALITY traits that won't change (like whatever her favourite colour is or how she likes to dress, etc).

 

It's a mixbag of stuff and you see attitudes and responses back to things, and you have no idea what they mean. Sometimes it's a subliminal message (which is what she did a lot in our relationship and made my life maddening at times)

 

Do you mean manipulative, sneakly uncooperative/avoidant and passive-aggressive?

 

and sometimes it's 100% truth.

 

That's because she's swinging between two minds. Geddit? One dares so wants you, the other doesn't dare so doesn't want you.

 

She is a very curious person, so that's why I say she wants to know about my state. She cares yes, but more as a news piece, as I care because I want to get back to him.

 

Did you mean, back to HER?

 

Why would she be curious about someone she didn't give two hoots about when the hoots had already been defined and set as meaning, romantically attached? Does Not Compute! Curiosity is an EMOTION and emotions are for driving you to FETCH/ACHIEVE things and take mental energy. You don't expend energy on whatever is futile, you're programmed not to. You only put a 50p piece in the slot if you want and expect to get a choccie bar out of the machine. If you intended to do nothing with that choccie bar (neither eat nor gift it) there would be no point in losing a whole precious 50p.

 

So what I'm saying is, curiosity has a POINT or else the curiosity dies or doesn't surface in the first place. And that's what you're endeavouring to discover. What's her point that clearly she feels is WORTH that amount of effort? It doesn't tally with mere short-burst ego drive, IMO. Only if she had an OVER-ACTIVE ego would there be enough urge to justify this expense of effort (but even that would still be a short-term burst). But were that the case, why would you want someone like that back even after enough time to realise she HAD an ego problem?

 

At least that's my opinion. She gives a **** about her previous exes, guys that once asked her out, guys that she's made out with in the past, etc., so that's where my dark cloud attitude comes from.

 

Well, as an over-attacher, she would, wouldn't she - it would take her longer than the average to DE-tach (to turn off a desire of any 'size').

 

But you're her most RECENT ex, as well that not a lot of time has passed, so it stands to reason that her desire in your direction would still be strongest.

 

Me, I think you've hit a negative wave and [1] are trying to explain to yourself why you feel quite this bad by painting her blacker than she is so that you can attribute it to her being so black (if you get what I'm saying), plus [2] you're bracing yourself for rejection and trying to buffer it by basically convincing yourself she's not worth having back, anyway.

 

I feel like, oh boy, same games, how do I make the best of this to turn it around (what is the best thing to do now?).

 

Let me ask you - how did you and she first meet and then bond? Did it follow this same method of IM-ing, either entirely or inclusively?

 

If it was just any other girl, it would be the same old process. But this is a whole new element. I'm positive because I used to be a salesperson and I know anything out of someone's mouth is a buy signal, and you just have to know how to spin it your way to get the deal.

 

Despite I suspect I can work out what you're saying - that you manipulate the person to sell to themselves merely THROUGH you and that the fact they stay on the line rather than put it down on you immediately is a huge clue - basic sales psychology is not the whole pie. Did you ever get back, as in manage to significantly re-sell to, a client who'd withdrawn his business with your company in outrage and disgust or who'd just been badly stung by another company? Anyway, even where basic sales is concerned, don't you remember you're not supposed to accept the first two or three Nos? And what about where selling anything of very high value is concerned? Have you forgotten that this is the long-haul strategy as requires building a relationship via wooing the client, possibly at first via the ego until the heart joins in?

 

Now, the reason I'm not a salesperson any more is because I wasn't able to turn enough of these denials into buys.

 

Do you mean you weren't a confident closer?

 

What about if ever your trainer/superviser was secretly participating and directing?

 

I don't think she cares that I'm picking up other girls per se, she's just more jealous that I'll probably find someone before she does. Honest truth.

 

Yes - competitive - I know. It's in there, sure. That's okay. We can use that. We just need a springboard at this stage, that's all.

 

She's told me I don't know how many times, I hope you're picking up many girls,

 

Tsk! Don't you realise she's just button-pushing instead of asking so as to avoid having to reveal how SHE feels via the nature of the question? Throwing a seeming statement at you which you then either have to refute or accept either by saying so or demonstrating it by your reaction? Think of a toddler's toy: what happens if I push this button or pull this lever? You don't have to ASK the toy to make the noise, do you - you just PUSH.

 

"I hope you're picking up many girls?"

Who me? No!?

A few, yes.

Who me? Well..... um...you know...

Ha-ha... do you now.

Why would you think I'd be picking up girls?!

WHY do you "hope" I am?!!

A-haah...a gentleman never kisses and tells.

That's for me to know and you to find out, ha-ha.

Well, what about you? - are you picking up lots of men?

No, I prefer my women to be OVER 12 years of age, ha-ha.

Etc.

 

You can vaguely tell who is or isn't in there, can't you? And then some you definitely can't.

 

Why - what did you reply when she said that?

 

... or find someone other girl whose heart you haven't hurt, not mine.

 

"Whaaaaah - yooou huuuurt meeeee, how coooould yooooou!..... you b***ard, grr!"

 

(Pow means Ow, remember?)

 

I don't know if it means go away from me, don't try me, or what?

 

'What'. It's definitely 'what'.

 

Maybe go looking hard and you'll see what you've lost is pretty good?

 

Appealing idea merely in principle, sure, but - naaah.

 

And my openness to communication is the only bargaining chip I have to speak to me in person, really.

 

Do you mean your only choice of reapproach method?

 

If we talk over IM, convenient excuse not to talk in person. And I repeat, unless you cross the woman's respect line, she will never ignore anyone. Ever.

 

You can fail to ignore someone WITHOUT choosing the tone and manner SHE chose, believe you me. And she DIDN'T just not ignore, either - she encouraged/rewarded and then initiated - invited MORE conversation (by telling you there was a new member).

 

Dear me - you WERE in a black cloud when you wrote this, weren't you! Do you feel better today?

 

I wouldn't doubt either are correct. To test if I'm still going to be controlling. To see if I have the expression that we are together any more.

 

Were you controlling?

 

What does your final sentance mean? Did you mean 'impression'?

 

When you are scared not to lose, instead of trying to win, you'll have my attitude. It's just that I always screw it up by saying the wrong thing or acting in the wrong way, post-break. That's where it comes from. Zero confidence. It'll come once I start interacting properly.

 

Ah! THERE it is!

 

Well, that's easily sorted: You have already lost. So you HAVE nothing to lose. You can't lose a chance - a chance isn't really real, it's just a method of self-conning so that you'll find the drive to begin the process of acquiring. All that is on the menu now is GAIN. And if you don't gain, you've lost nothing.

 

Better? Got some confidence back?

 

My fear is not being able to steer the conversation the right way and have the right reply at the moment.

 

Have you tried this one: "I'm not sure what to say at this point"?

Or this one: "I need to give that some thought"?

Or this one: "I'm not sure I know what you're getting at/what you're asking me - can you give that to me again but put it another way?"

 

Why is it you think you have to pretend you're Mr Slick, Mr Smooth Talker? Impressing a woman isn't about pretending you're B when you're A. Impressing her is you showing your A-ness [smirk - sorry!] with pride and in its best light (i.e. how it can benefit her) and her being the type of person who values that [sorry again! LOL] A-ness. Being yourself and not having a problem with who you are - berbom!

 

I think I can keep my emotions level now and be conciliatory, it's just I have to be up against this coolness that it s the opposite of what you're used to.

 

I understand. It's discombobulating. But you just have to understand it and the reasons for it so that it won't threaten you any more. Pow! = Ow. That's it! If she's cool where she never used to be? - she's hurting. If she says something contentious or tinged with hostility - she's hurting. Etc. Pow is Protectiveness (of self) plus Ow = Pow.

 

And, I know every good thing I do gives me tiny credits, but any poor response can cut it all off.

 

You act like she doesn't know YOU. And you act like you think she's stupid. How do you know that she doesn't read poor or kack-handed response as a sign that you're nervous which strikes her as FLATTERING as well as serves to reassure and increase her own confidence? As is you asking lots of questions (which will help lessen the amount of complicated responses needed from you). Sincere flattery + Sincere interest + Making her feel reassured and more confident = Credits.

 

High-risk, no? And I still like I don't know how to get this so it will be towards the path of reconciliation, and not be people catching up. But then, I can't pressure on her...

 

You're ON the path to reconciliation. And same as (in the dating context) chatting as strangers leads to chatting nas friends leads to chatting as partners, catching up can do the same. When you've reached the point where that path requires an uppage of ante is precisely when thanks to the earlier steps you took to get there, you'll be naturally ready to do it and won't have to think about how - it'll come instinctively. In fact, you probably won't even really take full note of the fact it's happened because you'll have other, now-bigger and more compelling things to think about.

 

Your trouble is you're thinking of it in this fast-paced thus forced manner where it *wouldn't* feel so seamless. Also, you're forgetting that there's TWO of you making effort in this scenario. She's already helped you out, look - she started a new topic so as to make the conversation continue.

 

Methinks you're just whittling and worrying unnecessarily to dissuade yourself out of the game because by having had your expectations for too much get understandably dashed, you're seeing failure looming and can't see the positives and progress. (Good job I can, then, eh!)

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

No update??

 

xoxo