Hmmphhh, I had been doing so well!!

[soloman9]

I wholeheartedly think that Nattersmatter is overanalysing this to the extreme and therefore giving you completely unjustified false hope.

 

Guys are simple. They do what they want. They make time for people they want to make time for, even if very fleeting. Their actions are so much more important than words they are almost pressurised to say because you keep bothering him.

 

I didn't say anything about a 'window' ... he's made up his mind and left months ago and given you NOTHING to hold on hope to. He's slightly cowardly and doesn't want to explicitly tell you to go away. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but sometimes brute reality is what it takes to move on.

 

P.S Don't mess around the new guy if you don't like. Break up and move on from both.

[RGS]

He did the same last time we met up, strung it out for weeks and then when we did meet up he sat there nearly crying the whole time. UNTIL he'd established I wasnt dating and then he seemed fine. Solomon normally I would agree with you but it was him who told me he feels really stupid and "sometimes he thinks he's made the right decision sometimes he doesn't" this doesn't make it better no because as you say these are all likely scraps.

 

Natters- no he doesn't know about new guy.

 

Incidentally I have been upfront with new guy so he knows where he stands.

 

Advice on how to respond?!

[Nattersmatter]

By the way - my husband likes water sports and I don't. I don't even like swimming out further than my feet can touch the bottom. Not a problem. We get around it. The reason why we get around it is because having to get around it is far-far-FAR preferable to losing each other from our lives. No contest!

 

xoxo

[RGS]

I've replied the following:

 

 

"Hey, how's tricks?! yes huugely excited, they've had a good covering of snow so the boarding should be amazing!

 

No worries re: coffee, just let me know

 

So I'll just leave it now where ex is concerned. New guy is coming round for dinner on Friday so I'm going to try and give him a fair chance.

[RGS]

I just realised I didn't mention the date I actually go boarding but HE KNOWS ?

[Nattersmatter]

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-HAH!...and HAH!...There you go, then!

 

And very well spotted, Holmes!

 

xoxo

 

PS: Good reply.

[Amandacast57]

I'll hijack this thread for a moment since you were wondering about me

 

Things are pretty good, for the most part. I get a lot of phone calls and "I miss yous". He took me out to dinner last Saturday. I'm always aware of what he is doing or where he is.

 

The only thing that annoys me is that although we haven't said that we are officially boyfriend/girlfriend (although we pretty much are) he keeps brining up future talk. For example, the other morning he texted me saying how he felt like we were really really great and he liked me and that If things continued this way, the next step would be me moving in with him. Or he talks specifically about me having his children or what kind of ring he would buy me. I get comments like "if you're going to be my wife...." and the other day he said "you are going to make an awesome wife to someone one day and I hope that someone is me".

 

Most people may not find that too terribly annoying but it annoys me when he says those things out of the blue but we don't spend a lot of our time together and, for example, I wasn't invited to his dads birthday dinner this past Sunday, while the two younger brothers girlfriends were. It makes me look like I'm not partaking in family activities.

 

So I told him tonight that we don't need to talk about me moving in with him at all until he WANTS to have me involved in things like his brothers wedding or his dads birthday and especially not until he wants to spend more time with me because living together means 24/7, and that is a lot more than a few days a week.

[RGS]

Ha funny!! Natters, is it just me or do you think he deliberately said the wrong date for my trip?! (To act 'oh so breezy' and oh so not bothered)

 

My other suspicion here is that the reason he said after my holiday is because I said I wasn't drinking until after my holiday. Last time we met up it took him 4 weeks to do so, he was just meant to be dropping my jacket at my house but it materialised it took him that long to find the guts to suggest a drink instead of just dropping my jacket round (because he needs the Dutch courage although he never verbally said this it was obvious) I do wonder if that's what's happening here too.

 

Glad you like my reply

 

Amanda - Im not sure what advice to give except to say that I guess this happened as he didnt have to work to get you back. So he never had to verbally ask you to go out why him again? Why don't you just ask him if you are boyfriend and girlfriend? (If you're scared this will freak him out then maybe it's not the right relationship to be in)?

[Nattersmatter]

(Amanda, a PM - to either of us(???) - or a link would have been more appropriate, I think; don't you?)

 

RGS, I definitely think he deliberately cited the wrong date, yes. Not to come over as either "not bovvered" or breezy (that was you) (breezy, I mean) but like I already said (pay attention at the front, there? LOL) - so that she who is crap at letting anomalies/mistakes lie or slide, would just HAVE to respond in order to [ref "The Shining"] corrrrr-RECT him. Seen it a hundred times [understatement!].

 

So I think I was right that he (and, I think, it's a case of BOTH) wants to give himself more time and in the meantime get to re-gain confidence by re-sampling you from a safe distance and via a safer medium than face-to-face (- no screaming and shouting, innit).

 

He's certainly (whoops!) exposed the fact he pays seemingly too-close attention still, though, hasn't he, heh-heh-heh (men always forget an important angle or two - luckily for us)... on which note, you're probably correct about the not drinking bit.

 

The guy, like too many others, has obviously concluded there's something wrong with the mixture of you and he as interactive people rather than got around to retro-inspecting the real issue of HOW you two interacted (including the dynamic within which you interacted) and whether this needs conscious re-adjusting in order to avoid the same niggles and pitfalls should there be a next time around. So, the fact is, he really does need this extra time - as long as you can bear to grit your teeth for, frankly - before he'll be ready to change certain of his ways or reactions as a romantic partner.

 

For that reason ALONE, I would advise you to leave off trying for a meet-up at this premature juncture. Obviously, one is already in motion, now, meaning you'll just have to go with it if he's the one to remind you about it on your return. But if not, or even regardless of that one-off, I think you should use this time just to have FUN with this other chap... no expectations one way or t'other... or even, forget relationships full-stop and do something you've always wanted to do and which wouldn't strictly be 'on' or practicable if you were in a relationship. That way, you'll put yourself in a win/win situation during this separation: by the time reconciling becomes plausible, if it doesn't happen you won't care because you'll have filled his gap, and if it does happen you'll have to set about MAKING a new gap for him (which is difficult to do in one fell swoop, thereby providing an excellent mechanism for having to take the relationship and the rate at which he becomes re-involved in your routine lifestyle much, much more slowly). Win/Win.

 

The important thing is that you've now demonstrated perfectly well enough that you'd be up for it. Now - unless you could stomach always suspecting your man was in it mainly only under coercive duress - it's his turn to be the doorbell ringer.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: That's not the same as saying, don't reply, though - to this latest mail and any others he initiates. Do. But the rule in this situation is: Ask for nothing, Offer nothing. Be fun, friendly, hard to squeeze details out of (so that he has to be cleverly persuasive in winkling info out of you and gets a buzz from that cleverness of his), and in no particular hurry to respond other than within an appropriate timeframe that says 'Engaged and Enjoying it'. That way you'll get him re-hooked without any pressure meddling with the process, until he's ready to try to SECURE that drug supply (via re-securing the drug suppli-er).

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Ooh - nearly forgot! Whether a rough idea or correct one (hence, either way, him giving you a naturally or deliberately wrong date so you'd come back with the precise one) how does he know? Who has he been pumping for this info, eh? Is someone you know playing secret matchmaker of the reconciling variety behind your back(s)?

 

xoxo

[RGS]

PS: That's not the same as saying, don't reply, though - to this latest mail and any others he initiates. Do. But the rule in this situation is: Ask for nothing, Offer nothing. Be fun, friendly, hard to squeeze details out of (so that he has to be cleverly persuasive in winkling info out of you and gets a buzz from that cleverness of his), and in no particular hurry to respond other than within an appropriate timeframe that says 'Engaged and Enjoying it'. That way you'll get him re-hooked without any pressure meddling with the process, until he's ready to try to SECURE that drug supply (via re-securing the drug suppli-er).

 

xoxo[/QUOT

 

Thanks natters! I think I'm doing a good job of this I've certainly been having a blast the past few months and have lots of things lined up I can't even list them all. Snowboarding next week, girls weekend away for my big 30th, conference in Slovenia, New York in December. Trampoline course, climbing.. Plus lots of social gatherings etc etc. AND just heard today I have a job interview for a more senior position at work (fingers crossed) so my life is pretty much cracking. I'm happy to sit back and let him be and maybe have fun with the other fella

 

The interesting thing to note is that when I met his mum last year (proper Irish mammy) the one thing she said to me which I found odd at the time was " are you patient RGS?" I found it such a weird question to ask.. Now I KNOW why- she knows her boy!!!

 

 

I think he will meet up when I get ba m from holiday, he is very much a man of his word and that's what I liked about him. He follows through. But, as you say, he NEEDS more time than that.

 

Right better go, up early for a meeting.. It never stops!

[RGS]

Ps he knew the date of my holiday as I had told him in my last email, he just chose to reply to the spam email to act 'forgetful' clever eh?!

 

We have no mutual friends so there's no match making going on. He would have no idea of my life apart from twitter which I rarely go on and if I do it's always very boring work related stuff...

[RGS]

He's emailed, what do you make of this natters?!

 

Tricks are v busy at the moment, hopefully will quieten down next week. Still time for gym though ;-)

 

Good news about the snow, at least there's less chance of you injuring yourself now! Hope the bus journey goes okay and you get there and back in one piece...

[soloman9]

I really would stop focusing on what Natters is saying to you. It's giving you false hope where there is no kindling. It's a polite email but completely avading anything about meeting up. Stop letting this guy take up all your emotional energy.

[Nattersmatter]

Tricks are v busy at the moment, hopefully will quieten down next week. Still time for gym though

 

Good news about the snow, at least there's less chance of you injuring yourself now! Hope the bus journey goes okay and you get there and back in one piece...

 

I think the same as you:

- "It's not that I don't want to, it's just that I'm very busy". Is that, I'm shiny-happy so buy me or is it Who needs you, mleugh? BOTH, I imagine - his short-term calculating proves he's still higher up the DefCon status than you and therefore still in two minds.

- (Note the omission of the full stop after gym - it's an invitation to extrapolate) "Think of my sweaty body. Remember how sexy I am? And remember there are WOMEN at gyms, mleugh."

- "Get the idea in your head that it'll be next week". Is that because he wants to set you up so he can disappoint you (take THAT!) or because he doesn't want you to end up filling your diary and having to turn him down (eeek!)? Again - both.

- "Tricks". Freudian slip? Is he feeling like/fantasising about tricking you or does he feel he was tricked? (Both)

- "I don't have time for you (thanks to tricks) but I DO have time for the gym. Mleugh. But - wait, don't leave!! - actually, I DO have time for you - next week (phew)!! Am I worth waiting for, am-I-am-I-huh-huh???" (He's behaving like he thinks he's the woman - DEFINITELY in high DefCon.)

- "Don't kill yourself, will you, eeek?!!!...cos that had been occurring to me, actually" (note the 'now')

- "Oh, God, I've just been baaad...and that means I might get punished because even if she doesn't injure herself on the snow she could still die on the journey back, aaargh!"

 

ROFL! What a wally! Look at what happens the longer he has to think of you, though (as he's writing). He starts off with Nyeah and I'm So Gorgeous in the mix but then ends of Aaargh/Eeek/Sob/My baby!!! (I know I shouldn't but I'm laughing my face off right now, RGS!)

 

Leave him to unpeel from the ceiling and flop back to the ground. I would, LOL. There's not alot you can do with THAT kind of (badly hidden) mess, that's for sure.

 

Ps he knew the date of my holiday as I had told him in my last email, he just chose to reply to the spam email to act 'forgetful' clever eh?!

 

Oh, I SEEEE! Got it! And, yep - THAT old chestnut tactic! Yes, clever... but only in a short-term way (typical).

 

We have no mutual friends so there's no match making going on. He would have no idea of my life apart from twitter which I rarely go on and if I do it's always very boring work related stuff...

 

Boring to *you* maybe. But it'll still seem to contain clues which is better than sitting in the dark feeling powerless. And the ether is one of most men's best tools which they use to the hilt!

 

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're feeling so much better and calmer and thinking more cannily from wider angles - the difference is now palpable. And, good luck with the promotion: let's hope you get it if it'd serve you well and let's hope you don't if it wouldn't.

 

Now THERE'S a multi-applicational nugget if ever there was one, eh? ;-)

 

Yep, relax and have some RUDDY FUN! You have zero to worry about, IMO.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I really would stop focusing on what Natters is saying to you. It's giving you false hope where there is no kindling. It's a polite email but completely avading anything about meeting up. Stop letting this guy take up all your emotional energy.

 

Would you? Well - let's see you do it, then?

 

;-)

 

xoxo

[RGS]

Thanks, ill reply properly later.. So I guess ignore his message right?

[Nattersmatter]

Oh, I didn't realise you hadn't responded yet. No - this is you turning the tables to even them up, remember? Keep him warm whilst you go off and have your fun. ;-) xoxo

[RGS]

Ok I'll try and hold back and not reply.. I feel mean as it's not in my nature but hey it wouldn't bother him eh!

[Nattersmatter]

I meant, no, you're not supposed to not be responding. I already explained this - back in post 44 (tsk, cuh, slap!): don't reply if he fails to mention the coffee date in his next.

 

He didn't fail - he mentioned it - AGAIN.

 

Look again at the events:

1. You issued the invitation.

2. He held off replying to that whilst instead initiating an altogether unnecessary mail about spam. This was to get a better temperature reading of your mood (he's being cowardly, alright, but cowards still WANT things).

3. You responded playfully re the spam but DIDN'T reiterate or make any reference to your unanswered invitation.

4. He mailed playfully again about the spam (and very quickly indeed if you subtract from that 5 mins the time it took to formulate and type his message...undoubtedly because he couldn't believe you weren't pushing and needed to take another temperature reading).

5. You replied in kind and STILL made no mention of your invitation (you cow! LOL). Temperature reading: happy enough, considering..; very calm.

6. Suddenly he mails again and rather than let the invitation lie untouched under the table like he so easily could, it's HE (actions!) who brings it back up as well as forward accepts (actions!) in principle and yet (understandably) there's egotistic posturing of the resentful variety in there (because you didn't gaggingly nag, how verray dare hyou!), and he tries to provoke you into having to reply by deliberately getting the date wrong whilst simultaneously trying to make out he'd forgotten it because it's not that important to him...so why end with "21st, right?". Because unless a person is rude, a question has to be answered (actions!). Genuinely don't care is as Genuinely don't care *does* (the ether and simply failing to reply whatsoever suits cowards that *don't* want, perfectly!).

7. You reply basically with 'no worries - whenever', obviously in a happy mood ("...holi-holi-day, tra-la-laaa").

8. Two days later and he's replied making reference AGAIN (actions!) to the coffee date as well as same (actions!) to next week being the When, albeit in a veiled fashion, (and 'don't have an accident and die, eeek!')

 

Oh, and he didn't hide behind (which could mean a year or 10, frankly), it was . ;-)

 

There may be women at the gym (who'll grab him if you don't want him enough to chase him like you used to, mleugh) but there are far many more MEN on the ski-slopes. Heh-heh-heh. ...Romance... hmmmmmm... where typically do romances occur...oooh, let me think, nowww.... ooh, my aching iQ, LOL.

 

(Sing it with me, RGS: "Some-body's get-ting nerrrrr-vous. Aaaaannnnd it-ain't-Arrr-Gee Ess!")

 

So. HAVING been the one to keep referencing the 'date', you just keep him engaged and sitting warm on the side with harmless chatting and bantering until you disappear off to the slopes. He wants games?....whilst making it impossible for you to play straight thereby leaving a choice only between playing them or having to walk away (which obviously you're not going to do)? We'll darn well GIVE him games! But games where there are TWO winners.

 

The idea is put him into a situation where he makes his mind up faster but without cutting processing corners whereby the decision he ends up at is mostly reversible impulse.

 

Course, when you get- sorry ONCE you get back (hur-hur), you'll have unpacking to do, post backlog to look through, sunburned skin to peel, spiders to catch, etc. and won't have time to even look at your emails...for a good few worrying days, anyway. Right? ;-) Why not? Did you meet someone better out on those slopes?! Has he got (hhh!) SERIOUS COMPETITION?! Does that mean he CAN'T drag his sulky, game-playing little feet any more????

 

 

 

xoxo

[RGS]

Ah but he wasn't referencing the coffee date in his last message at all? Next week is when I go away so there would be no possibility of meeting up AND he knows that.

 

The gym reference is also unlikely to be him trying to make me jealous. He goes every lunchtime at work so it's not unusual for him. I used to wind him up for skiving because he used to spend SO much of his lunch time at the gym when he should have been back at the gym.

 

Also it's worth noting he used the word 'tricks' because in my previous message I asked 'how's tricks?' He's merely responding to my question.. So knowing that info do you still think I should reply and if so with what? Maybe something like "thanks, yes I'm hoping I come back with all limbs intact Always time for the gym "

[Nattersmatter]

Have I put a few of the wrong items in the wrong baskets? Sorry - I was in a bit of a hurry, I admit. But does that really make much difference? I dunno - why don't you edit my little list and then we'll see?

 

But I thought that veiled referencing was in his most recent mail? Hold fire, I'll go look again...

[Nattersmatter]

No, I was right, look:

 

Tricks are v busy at the moment, hopefully will quieten down next week. Still time for gym though

Good news about the snow, at least there's less chance of you injuring yourself now! Hope the bus journey goes okay and you get there and back in one piece...

 

I just didn't articulate properly... If things will quieten down next week then that suggests they won't be busying up again too soon thereafter or why would he have anything to 'hope' for were the armistice likely to last only very briefly like for a day or two?, was my point. He's telling you - aided by the secondary task of the word 'hopefully' (i.e. hope from your end as well as his own) - that he'll have time FROM next week and if not next week then obviously the week after (cos his calculation can't be THAT incredibly wide of the mark, right?).

 

After all - why the hell would you be interested WHEN it was quiet or not for him if not because you two are waiting on a chance to have that coffee? See what I mean, now?

 

Secondly, if he goes to the gym daily and he knows you know that - what's the bleedin' point of pointing it out? Has he just joined The Bleedin' Obvious Society or something? LOL Nah - he's trying to make you visualise it all. And if you used to wind him up for NOT going, then we have the third leakage of: See what a good boy I'm being? See how I *did* pay attention to the things you said? He's looking for a pat on the head.

 

Good point about tricks. (Same question to YOU, then, LOL) He's mirroring you. Again, it's him seeking your approval of him.

 

I think your draft reply is fine. But get rid of the wink. You don't want him having ANY inkling that you're wise on another level rather than just being your merry self. The fact you don't end on a question is good - it gives you the chance to see how determined to continue the exchange he is. I'm expecting 'very'. Men always panic once they realise you're going to be going out of their realm of control. Not that he HAS any control, as such, but he's used to knowing you're within a certain geographical range. And, of course, again, there are (cough!) too many unknown quantities and possibilities when in a foreign place.

 

My ex used to go doolally where efforts to warm me back up again were concerned if I was going out of the country. He'd find ANY excuse to constantly ring and text and try to get my mind thinking constantly about him in the days before I went and especially once I was there - wanting to see whether and how quickly I'd respond as a way to gauge whether other things or people had my rapt attention.... including acting out negatively to try to put a face like a wet weekend on me so that I wouldn't be attractive to other men. Now-husband was the same. Still is, actually (whenever I go out without him). In fact, thinking about it, they all were like that.

 

...on which note, be prepared for him to do something that mightily pisses you off so that you'll obsess rather than be able to concentrate on having fun. Not saying he will - he seems to be trying to behave himself despite posing as a dangling carrot at the mo. But just be prepared and take no notice of it if he does.

 

I'll be here, though. We have heavy snow until Tuesday or so, meaning we're going to be stranded!

 

When do you leave again? 28th, isn't it? (sorry, couldn't resist

 

xoxo

[RGS]

Snow? Where abouts are you natters? I always assumed you were the states but are you uk based too? We're meant to be getting a deep covering today (uk) I hardly need to go away lol!

 

Ok so edited events below..

 

Look again at the events:

1. I issued invitation to his work email saying I'm happy to be friends now I've had some space but no worries if he wants to leave it a while longer. Mentioning I'm not drinking until after my snow holiday so suggesting going for lunch/coffee as it would be nice to catch up.

2. He replies 1 day later (friday) saying we could meet for coffee and asking when my snow holiday is. He receives my out of office as I have the day off

3. I respond on Monday (when back in work) saying i go boarding on the 25th (yes the 25th. Natters hahaha!) and to let me know when suits.

4. He held off replying to that whilst instead initiating an altogether unnecessary mail about spam.

5. I respond playfully re the spam but DIDN'T reiterate or make any reference to unanswered invitation.

6. He mailed playfully again about the spam (and very quickly -10 mins)

7. I replied in kind and STILL made no mention of your invitation but no question so end of jokey exchange.

8. He mails again and rather than let the invitation lie untouched. He asks if im ready for my holiday, asks for confirmation of when i go. Says probably wont be able to meet up before i go but confirms he will do when back.

9. I ask how he is, ignore confirmation of date, sounds chirpy and excited about my holiday. Say no worries about coffee "just let me know"

10. Two days later and he's replied responding to my question about how he is. Making jokey reference to gym as he knows I know he is a gym nut and goes every lunchtime without fail ( we used to joke about this). And saying he hopes I don't injure myself... Just noticed he didn't actually wish me a good holiday hahaha!!!

 

Hope that's a little clearer anyway.. Ill let you know if I decide to respond. Gotta leave it till a reasonable time, currently 7.40 am here.. FAR too early to be seen to be thinking about email.

 

New guy coming round for dinner later