Men Who Fear Rejection

[ltorivia]

Al7, that's kinda mean. Once they have the kids, women EXPECT men to contribute SOMETHING whether fatherly love OR financial! lol

[al7]

Women claim what is acceptable to claim. It has almost nothing do to with what people really want.

Woman want kids and want them to survive. So they want sombody who will provide material and other support for that.

Now imagine a woman would say: I want a man who'll take care of my kids. How many men would respond?

 

Al7, that's kinda mean. Once they have the kids, women EXPECT men to contribute SOMETHING whether fatherly love OR financial! lol

 

I am not sure what you mean is mean.

I think men would definitely feel better if they are told the truth: she expect him to have a job! (instead o saying I ust want a polite nice guy - it is Mean to say that cuz it is not true. If somebdy want a polite nice guy, any female friend would be better than any guy).

Yes, many men would be scared by that truth (or some other truth). But

I am sure in this way she'll find the man she is looking for who will love her no matter what. The truth is good, is it?

 

when a man is told one thing then she expects somehtign else from him he feels trapped. I dont think it is conducive to unconditionl love.. or a healthy marriage with emotionally healthy kids.

[ShySoul]

Um, if a women wanted someone to help her take care of her kids, I'd respond so long as that wasn't the only reason she was interested in me. If we cared about each other and truly loved each other, the kids shouldn't even be an issue.

 

I think your missing the point on what the truth is. Women do want a polite nice guy, they want someone who will treat them right. Part of treating someone right is being supportive. Usually that includes contributing financially. But there are families out there where the women makes the majority of money while the man plays Mr. Mom. But the more important part of being supportive is the emotional support given. It's being there for each other throughout everything, good times and bad. The nice will give that kind of support, which is why women say they want a nice guy.

 

I get that honesty is the best quality and that people should be straight forward in what they are looking for. I also think that most women are. In the end what they are looking for is the same thing we are all looking for, someone who cares about, understands and loves us and who will be there for us no matter what life brings.

[al7]

I think your missing the point on what the truth is. Women do want a polite nice guy, they want someone who will treat them right.

 

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I am not saying they want impolite guy. And yes u r right in the end they want to be treaed nice. Althgough when it comes to dating, a nice guy

doesnt have a chance. He is not excinting, adventurous or interesting.

He gaves her no New exciting feelings...Obviously most women would date somebody who can give all of that to them. Not a nice guy.

[Caldus]

Every woman wants something different. Stop trying to make generalizations about what women want. Stop thinking about it in the first place. You can still be a nice guy and get women. You just need to stop being a pushover that's all. Don't let people use you. Give women a reason to chase after you. Make yourself interesting by leaning on your strengths. That's the best you can do and that's how you will attract women. When you keep trying to figure out what they want, you will just end up frustrated. Just be the best you can be and one day you will find her. The topic is about fear of rejection, not about what women want. Fear of rejection can be solved by doing the above as well. If you always lean on your strengths and not worry about what women want, then you won't worry about whether they think you're interesting or not.

[Mun]

You can still be a nice guy and get women. You just need to stop being a pushover that's all. Don't let people use you.

 

Exactly.

 

I think most women would not respect a man who does not respect himself or who allows others to step all over him--even her. For the most part I think women want a man who will be strong and speak up and tell us when we are wrong or being brats. This is not being a jerk, this is having dignity and self-respect. You shouldn't act as though we women are above reproach, that appears as weakness. And the same holds true the other way around.

 

Women should not allow a man to walk all over us and hurt us because we love him. Love is no excuse.

 

If you look around you will see that we make allowances for the things we want from a partner when we find the right one. There is no perfect--only what is perfect FOR YOU.

 

Love

[al7]

For the most part I think women want a man who will be strong and speak up and tell us when we are wrong or being brats.

 

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Oh thats right. I very much agree with that!

 

Women should not allow a man to walk all over us and hurt us because we love him. Love is no excuse.

 

---

It is not like walk all over. It is just that for a jerk it is easier to get a date,

cuz he is not boring, adventureous and he is a challenge!

In the long term he doesnt have that many advantages over a nice guy.

Still I think a nice guy mostly is perceived as boring and unexicing alternative to go on a date with. But of course a date and a relationship are different things.

[al7]

Caldus:

 

Fear of rejection can be solved by doing the above as well. If you always lean on your strengths and not worry about what women want, then you

won't worry about whether they think you're interesting or not.

 

Yep. Just you see...if you dont get many dates, or any dates you anway would start worry about each woman you see and what she wants.

Less women, more worry. More worry even less women... vicious cycle.

 

So about worry. I recently got a talking book" Worry". They r saying

there 3 basic cures for worry: 1. theraphy 2. physical exercise 3. medication.

[ShySoul]

Ok, I'm getting a little tired of this thought that nice guys aren't exciting or adventurous. Or how people seem to equate nice with being a pushover. Folks, being a nice gut simply means being nice and polite. Nice guys can be every bit as exciting, adventurous, and confident as the jerks. I've been talking to a shy guy who is into snowboarding. Now to alot of people that would be exciting. You never know what people could be like underneath it all. Maybe that quite guy is a karokee king. Maybe the shy one likes to go hunting or breakdance. Or maybe that tough, macho guy cried like a baby when bambi's mother died. Appearances can be deceiving. You can't really tell about a person until take the time to get to know them.

[al7]

ShySoul:

 

Ok, I'm getting a little tired of this thought that nice uys aren't exciting or adventurous. Or how people seem to equate nice with being a pushover. Folks, being a nice gut simply means being nice and polite. Nice guys can be every bit as exciting, adventurous, and confident as the jerks.

 

I'll reveal the different for you between nice guys and jerks.

If she goofed, made a mistake, was late etc etc a nice guy would be nice to her...say nothing ot just somethign polite. What a jerk what do? Oh well we all know.. cuz she doesnt care much about her he would do what he wants to do.

It is an old paradox: the more you dont care about a girl, the more you are of a jerk, the more open you are with your emotions, words.. acts the more love you get from her. Why?

She thinks: Oh he is so natural and open (saying what he thinks), he is spunky at the same time (he says somethign that nice guys dread to say), he is in control of situation.. cuz he can control me by saying, doing what he wants..

Thats why he is percieved as more exciting and adveturous.

And more confident (cuz he just doesnt care about her, so he doesnt hesitate to say what he thinks and by doing so appeear as super confident dude).

See?

[Ceema-k]

image removed

 

I know the Nice Guy vs. Jerk debate will continue until the end of time. Still, I am a dork so I whipped up this little graphic during my lunch break.

 

With this graphic I hope to get other guys to stop obsessing over the jerk so much. There are plenty of non-jerk guys who get girls. How does that happen? it happens because they are balanced.. they have 'positive' qualities of a jerk (i.e. confidence, resolve, excitement) & some good traits possessed by super-duper nice guys (i.e. respect for women, honesty, good manners).

 

The way I see it... if you're not already a jerk, you'll never be a jerk. At least not by your own conscious willing. And why would you want to compromise yourself so much just to attract women? Go halfway and become the REAL Nice Guy... the gentleman, the guy who has a life, the guy who is a combination of manliness and sensitivity that women go crazy for.

[RayKay]

Laughing my butt off at the graphic!

 

And the rest of your post holds true - what you describe is exactly the kind of nice guys a girl wants when she says "I want a nice guy". Contrary to popular belief, the girls who want and actually go with jerky guys are far and few in between (I know I have NEVER gone for a jerk...I don't need anyone who requires more maintenance and babysitting than a 2 year old thanks!)

 

And no, sorry, most of us WON'T go for wimps. It's just not attractive.

 

So what do we want? A nice guy with values and morals, who will treat us with respect, desire us, be interested in us and caring, and with a zesty twist of interesting, independent, confident, passionate and fun (mmmmmm!). A guy who is a "man's man", but also lets it be known that his heart is fully invested with his woman

[al7]

Ceema-k:

I know the Nice Guy vs. Jerk debate will continue until the end of time.

---

Not true! We'll see...

 

With this graphic I hope to get other guys to stop obsessing over the jerk so much. There are plenty of non-jerk guys who get girls. How does that happen? it happens because they are balanced.. they have 'positive' qualities of a jerk (i.e. confidence, resolve, excitement) & some good traits possessed by super-duper nice guys (i.e. respect for women, honesty, good manners).

---

Well, of course if you put two guys in one of course it would be better version than just a jerk or just a nice guy.

 

The way I see it... if you're not already a jerk, you'll never be a jerk. At least not by your own conscious willing.

---

I have seen a guy, who consciously inserted that "I dont care" thing in his life with quite a lot of success. The thing is to be able not to care that much... and just do what you want to do, say what you want to say..

Easy? Not really at least for me it is not.

 

And why would you want to compromise yourself so much just to attract women?

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Huh, I dont see it as a compromise, I see it as a personal growth since by saying\believing in that 'I dont care" more, I'd gain better skills in handling women.

[al7]

RayKay:

 

So what do we want? A nice guy with values and morals, who will treat us with respect, desire us, be interested in us and caring, and with a zesty twist of interesting, independent, confident, passionate and fun (mmmmmm!). A guy who is a "man's man", but also lets it be known that his heart is fully invested with his woman

 

I know him...he is a prince, right? But that a woman whould feel like a princess too, inside and outside. Seems most of the time either a girl is cute and dosnt give a s* about her personality, being kind\easying etc etc or she is a cool person but with less luck in looks department.

I honestly dislike that "search of prince" attitude. We are facing a loooong list of requirements without even an idea why would we have to satisfy them. Are we going to have anything in return?

 

Besides that.. looking at teh list, I'd estimate a good girl would definitely fir this list better than any men: values, morals (girls are full of moral we all agree on that), who will treat us with respect (a female friend would do that easily), desire us (ok, she's gotta be bi), be interested in us and caring, and with a zesty twist of interesting, independent, confident, passionate and fun.

So the conclusion: a girl is a perfect match for a ... girl who is looking for a prince. See it for youself.

[RayKay]

I would truly disagree with that. I am not a princess in any case. I am very athletic (a mountain biker, love camping, hiking, beer!), with a big heart, fun, caring, sensitive, I don't go out and hurt people or act better than all that either...and well, you have to take my word for it, but I am not lacking in the looks department.

 

I am not looking for a prince - my life is happy with or without someone because I am happy with who I am. I have been in relationships, and I have been out of them...who I AM is constant throughout. You know how most of my relationships started out? When I was NOT looking at all and I was taken by surprise. I am looking for a REAL person. A person with flaws and quirks along with everything else. Someone who is who they are, and has learned through experience and maturity to be the person they are.

 

My description is not of a prince, but of a person we all deserve, and have the right too. Would it be better if I said " a nice guy who is going to treat me like a piece of dirt, cheat on me, and be around ALL the time with no life of his own?".

 

As females, we face a long list of requirements too. Not when a guy just wants someone to bang or to have someone, but when they are serious. A guy once told me I was not blonde, thereforeeee he could not be with me....how is that for senseless?

 

No, I don't look for a prince - I look for someone who has similar interests and whom I CLICK with, whom I can trust with my heart and to share my life with. I hardly think it is being picky to not "settle". We cannot necessarily PICK who we are going to fall for - I have been with men of all shapes and sizes, but their personalities held fairly similar traits from one to the next. None of them have looked the same, talked the same, done the same things, but they were ALL truly good people who cared about me, respected me and were confident in THEMSELVES/ That is not a prince, that is a person whom knows who they are.

 

Every girls requirements are different, we don't necessarily consciousLY choose them. You should not HAVE to satisfy them as there is someone out there you will just FIT with and not have to try so hard.

 

And I do know many guys who fit that list. Including MANY guys with morals (I also know many girls WITHOUT THEM). I have found a guy who matches all of these, respects me, loves me, fulfills me emotionally and in every way possible WITHOUT me having to ask, without him having to change...he does it as he WANTS to because he loves me. AND he is someone whom I click with, and just have a knowledge they are the one.

 

So, contrary to your statement, there ARE indeed men like this. I know of many women who are the opposite of that description too....just look at some of the posts on this board.

 

I think too many people who are not having luck being the "nice guy" try and put the blame on women being shallow, or on other men being jerks, and women going for jerks and lying about wanting a nice guy. All which to me are excuses for them to not take responsiblity. It is funny how often I see posts from people complaining how girls are too picky, when they themselves do the EXACT same thing (ie...great personality but missing in looks dept as you said above). Funny how that works.

 

It is possible to be YOU and meet the right girl. But you can't rush things, things happen when you are NOT looking, when you are confident and happy with whom you are, with OR without someone.

[al7]

RayKay:

 

I know him...he is a prince, right?

I would truly disagree with that. I am not a princess in any case.

---

I am sorry I was not talking about you since I dont know you. I was just talking about a concept the "search for a prince".

Yes, men also search for princess though it seem we girls like this idea a bit more. believe me if some guy would say here similar long list of qualities I would not like it either.

 

I am very athletic (a mountain biker, love camping, hiking, beer!),

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Agree, for some guys it might be a turn on. For me it is a big turn off: a girl would not gain much in terms of feminine qualities: being strong and muscular is something faaar from feminine in my opinion.

Again, nothing personal. Many guys would love athletic girl.

 

with a big heart, fun, caring, sensitive, I don't go out and hurt people or act better than all that either...and well, you have to take my word for it, but I am not lacking in the looks department.

As females, we face a long list of requirements too. Not when a guy just wants someone to bang or to have someone, but when they are serious. A guy once told me I was not blonde, thereforeeee he could not be with me....how is that for senseless?

---

That guy is stupid what we r talking about...

Still most guys are not even close to have a such long list. In most cases

they have just one thing there: looks. Agree with me, it is not much.

And they are honest in what they want and what they dont want.

Guys want girls. Although looking at the list "what women want" I would rather say those requirements are not for a guy, but for a girl.

So many feminine traits, no job\money, nothing about sex or babies...

A very misleading list.

Again, dont take it personally, I just dislike the list I saw here.

 

 

 

No, I don't look for a prince - I look for someone who has similar interests and whom I CLICK with, whom I can trust with my heart and to share my life with. I hardly think it is being picky to not "settle".

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Hmm. Just to CLICK and have a long list of qualities are two different and opposite approaches.

 

 

We cannot necessarily PICK who we are going to fall for

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Really? You dont pick guys? You prefer to flow and not control your raft?

 

Every girls requirements are different, we don't necessarily consciousLY choose them.

---

I agree on that.

 

So, contrary to your statement, there ARE indeed men like this.

----

Of course there are men like that. Who argue..

 

My point was: according to the requirements in the list, it was designed by female and for a female. Maybe bi female I dont know.

But the most improtant parts were mot mentioned at all there (he is supposed to be: sexy-handsome, rich, want to have kids).

[al7]

Quote:

I think too many people who are not having luck being the "nice guy" try and put the blame on women being shallow, or on other men being jerks, and women going for jerks and lying about wanting a nice guy.

---

Yes, this situation is correct. Many nice guys blame women for hiding what they really want. Guys hope women have enough conscience

to say what they want and not to pretend "I just want a nice guy".

 

It is funny how often I see posts from people complaining how girls are too picky, when they themselves do the EXACT same thing (ie...great personality but missing in looks dept as you said above). Funny how that works.

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No one is hiding or pretending here. Yes, some guys are less lucky than other. But they do not lie about what they want.. and they do not lie to women about it. It is not about who complin more: men or women.

It is about who is honest and who is not willing to be.

 

It is possible to be YOU and meet the right girl. But you can't rush things, things happen when you are NOT looking, when you are confident and happy with whom you are, with OR without someone.

---

I agree it might happen. Although again this is a perfect advice for girl: wait, and you'll meet you love of life.

Not for guys! If a guy would would just wait... he'll retire single.

Guys are supposed to take an active role in dating.

[RayKay]

Those "most important" things are the "most important things" according to YOU and your ideas of what they are..not to me or I would argue most "good girls". Him being rich is not important to me. Sexy is different from one person to the next. As I get to know someone they become sexier....their personality becomes sexier, hence they become sexier too. I have dated bald men (not by choice!), chubby ones, and athletes. My list has those basic qualities that make someone a decent person, I don't care what their job is as long as they are happy with it. I don't care if their eyes are blue of brown, etc. I did cover the sex, it is part of the click and the chemistry.

 

Want kids...well, yes that does have to do with the shared values and common interests. In order to think long term you do need to share the same goals or be on same wavelength. Why get into something when you know it will be doomed later on? If you look on the forums many time women end up with guys who NEVER want to get married or have kids, and they find this out 5 years on or later...is that fair? I don't think so. Shared values and goals ARE important.

 

PS, just because I am strong does not mean I am not feminine. Feminity is not taken away by strength. Of course, if you like a softer girl thats fine, but feminitiy is another matter altogether. I am not huge and muscular, rather petite and toned, with curves that definitely show I am all woman, so I am far from butch or unfeminine, I am sure my boyfriend would be happy to verify this for me!

 

It seems you are very big into sexualizing traits. How is a guy who is moral and respectful any less masculine then one who is not? They aren't....you can't say that list is feminine, maybe from YOUR point of view it is, but if you poll most women on here there lists of what they want will be similar. My boyfriend is a guys guys, he is athletic, strong, I know he has his sexual urges and I never forget he is a man, but he also would never hurt me, he does little things to remind me how he feels about me. It does not take much. And other times he jumps me as soon as I walk in the door...reminding me is a guy!

 

I don't know many guys whos list is only LOOKS when they are thinking of more than a one night stand or a couple weeks of fun. Maybe if they are 16 or 17 (no offense to those who are) but move up, and you will find that is not the case.

 

You cannot MAKE a click. Just because you like someone does not mean they will like you back, or just because they fulfill the "list" does not mean they will make the cut. As you date, you learn what you like and don't. But you STILL need to click. But, if you click, they still need to have the basics to make a relationship work. Otherwise you will find yourself being a doormat or worse.

 

No, I don't PICK whom I fall for. I meet people yes, I choose not to date/meet others...but I FALL for those who set something off in me. When its right, its right, you can't force it to be so, or for it not to be so.

 

I am not bi, or lesbian. I have dated men who I had the click with AND filled my list. The man I am with now is that "one" and he came right out of left field, I fell for him instantly....and he turned out to be everything on the list and much more I never thought I could have.

 

It does happen.

[al7]

Those "most important" things are the "most important things" according to YOU and your ideas of what they are..

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Thats right. I am sure I expressed opinion of most guys on that matter.

And most women.

 

...not to me or I would argue most "good girls".

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Really? You dont care if a guys is unsexy, poor and doesnt want kids?

Then I am really really impressed.

 

Him being rich is not important to me. Sexy is different from one person to the next.

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It is. We were not going into detail what sexy is.. if you would just mentioned "sexy" it would be enough and clear to get what u r saying.

 

I don't care what their job is as long as they are happy with it.

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Possible. This is really rare. So you are a unique person.

 

I don't care if their eyes are blue of brown, etc.

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I am sorry...Meaning what?.. you dont care about his looks?

 

I did cover the sex, it is part of the click and the chemistry.

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You covered it when I asked if that is something you are interested in at all. Your original list didnt even mentioned anythign even close to it, look:

 

The list:

"A nice guy with values and morals, who will treat us with respect, desire us, be interested in us and caring, and with a zesty twist of interesting, independent, confident, passionate and fun (mmmmmm!). A guy who is a "man's man", but also lets it be known that his heart is fully invested with his woman"

 

Want kids...well, yes that does have to do with the shared values and common interests.

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I dont argue on that. Just tell a guy "we have to have a commmon values"

and let him guess what are they... he would not mention "kids" in eons...

Is it that hard to be more specific? You can put anything in that "values\interests". More people would say they are somethign like love for sports and when you value honestly and being open.

Kids as values is not a clear message, but rather confusing for most guys.

Again, maybe it is clear for girls I dont know but we are talkign about guys.

 

If you look on the forums many time women end up with guys who NEVER want to get married or have kids, and they find this out 5 years on or later...is that fair? I don't think so. Shared values and goals ARE important.

---

I agree it is extremely unpleasant for women. But, let me tell you,

women picked those guys, I am sure they probed and they figured out

(in 5 years) that a guy didnt want kids. So what they do? They continue to go on until 5 years passed. Nice. I know why they wait.. they hope they would be able change a guy. Some even have a baby in order to

intesify the process... oh well.

 

PS, just because I am strong does not mean I am not feminine.

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I am sorry, I never said anything like that, especially about you. I am sorry you took

it that personally, I didnt have anyintention to make it that way.

What I said was: being athletic wont add any feminine qualities.

Meaning...you wont gain anything women-like.

 

Of course, if you like a softer girl thats fine,

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I do. Why would I want another "guy" next to me?

Thats just me.

 

It seems you are very big into sexualizing traits.

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I do not deny that.

 

How is a guy who is moral and respectful any less masculine then one who is not?

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It is about nice guys and "jerks". nice moral guy would never say what he thinks or wants trying to be polite and respectful.

A "jerk" would alsways say what he thinks or wants.. or even pardon me (grab woman's butt), and women find that...bold, spunky and thats why masculine!

 

you can't say that list is feminine, maybe from YOUR point of view it is, but if you poll most women on here there lists of what they want will be similar.

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Lets be clear on that: you made that list not for women, women already know what they want they dont need any lists. You did that for guys. And I (and sure most guys) think it was really feminine list.

 

I don't know many guys whos list is only LOOKS when they are thinking of more than a one night stand or a couple weeks of fun. Maybe if they are 16 or 17 (no offense to those who are) but move up, and you will find that is not the case.

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To develop a relationship a guy wants looks. I guess we were talkign about that, right? Sure if he is gonna jump into marrige he'll think more

and present a longer list...something like: she has to be sexy\good in bed and easygoing enough to like it plus easygoing as a person.

 

You cannot MAKE a click.

No, I don't PICK whom I fall for. I meet people yes, I choose not to date/meet others...but I FALL for those who set something off in me.

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I agree.

 

I am not bi, or lesbian.

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I never said you were. Just the list seemed was intended for such a person. So just teh opposite: you who seem a heterosexual person made a list that calls for another female. I found it starnge and I was completely discombobulated by it

[RayKay]

Well, obviously you are very SURE what women want, so then why are you posting here?

 

You ask for honesty, we give you honesty, and you reject it. No, I did not say "a guy who wants kids" because that is part of the shared values/goals and not everyone has the same ones. And it is NOT the only thing that must be in common. Sometimes these are things you hash out as you start dating. When I was younger I did not know if I wanted kids, right now I only know sometime way in the future, and my partner feels the same. We share that goal.

 

Nor did I say I wanted an unsexy guy - I said my thoughts on the matter, that sexy is about more than looks, it is about emotional fulfillment. So is sex for that matter. I have dated students, people who were unemployed for a while, its not the only thing.

 

Yes, I do need to be attracted to him, but I don't have specifics as to WHAT that is that attracts me.

 

No I did not include sex in the original list...because again that is something that evolves as a couple...one couples sexual dynamic will be different from another, what one likes is different from another.

 

When I talk to a guy I don't say "he do we share the same values and have things in common". I find out as I talk to him. I am not going to tell him that if he does not like this I don't like him or something like that. I am not going to tell him if he does not want a family then I don't want him as what if he lies then to get me? I find out as we talk and get to that point in the relationship where we are both thinking long term.

 

I don't disagree some women stay too long when they should not.But sometimes a guy will say "later, not now" and yes I want them, just not yet. I don't try and change people either, hence me not wanting them to make things up either to be with me.

 

If a guy I don't know just grabs my butt, I find it really demeaning. And in fact will let them know. If MY man on the other hand grabs my butt, AWESOME.

 

And again, I can says whats good for the goose is good for the gander..if my list is so personal to ME, then yours can be personal to YOU. NOt all guys want the list you put forward as in terms of marriage/commitment.

 

And my list...well, it has been fulfilled by someone who is most definitely NOT a female. You can find it strange, but how about you put the question out there in general on the front page (in fact, you can link this post, quote my list or my post, whatever you want) to see what OTHER women think and if THEY and the REST of the men on this forum think it is too feminine. Go for it. If it turns out everyone thinks its for a female, then I guess you win your point, until then AS A WOMEN I will say that I do KNOW something about what I am talking about. Women generally are not looking for a one night lay or something too short term, they are looking for someone who they can trust for the long haul. Hence a list about character, and personality, rather than looks.

 

But I am done here for the evening, have stuff to do

[al7]

RayKay

 

Well, obviously you are very SURE what women want, so then why are you posting here?

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I didnt ask what women want. I asked why you want a girl acoriding to you list. Thats why.

 

You ask for honesty, we give you honesty, and you reject it.

---

Where is the honesty? In hiding the most important stuff in those

"common value\interests"? Kids.. no I wont tell him that..I'll find out later what he thinks, I dont wanna scare him away...

This is NOT honesty. If he really likes you he'll wont be scared by whatever you say you believe in. If he is scared by your words,

well... it is HIS problem, he was pretending since he didnt want you

much in the very first place.

 

No, I did not say "a guy who wants kids" because that is part of the shared values/goals and not everyone has the same ones. And it is NOT the only thing that must be in common. Sometimes these are things you hash out as you start dating. When I was younger I did not know if I wanted kids, right now I only know sometime way in the future, and my partner feels the same. We share that goal.

---

You hide you want kids in "values"! Guys, can you imagine that "value" means "kids"?? I cant. Sorry I am dumb to imagine that.

Kids are kids, family and not any "values". Please dont hide anything, it will be revealed later and later it would be way more painful for both to figure out suddenly you have different views on "values".

 

Nor did I say I wanted an unsexy guy - I said my thoughts on the matter, that sexy is about more than looks, it is about emotional fulfillment. So is sex for that matter.

---

So "sex" was hiding in "emotional fulfillment". Guys! Can you imagine that

sex is some sort of "emotional fullfilment"? You've got great imagination.

Really.

 

No I did not include sex in the original list...because again that is something that evolves as a couple...one couples sexual dynamic will be different from another, what one likes is different from another.

---

I can agree that if you dont want sex with him, you dont say it.

Since you dont said it, you basically dont care that much about sex.

Ok, thats fine.

 

 

When I talk to a guy I don't say "he do we share the same values and have things in common". I find out as I talk to him. I am not going to tell him that if he does not like this I don't like him or something like that.

---

ok, So what do you say to him? Do you say anything at all? You gotta say at least something.. right?

 

I don't disagree some women stay too long when they should not.But sometimes a guy will say "later, not now" and yes I want them, just not yet.

---

We all smart enough to figure out if he lies or not.

If he has been saying "later not now" for a month thats ok.

For a year thats ok.. next year you gotta be really serious about it if he says "noooo... latteeeer". Isnt it simple?

 

And my list...well, it has been fulfilled by someone who is most definitely NOT a female. You can find it strange, but how about you put the question out there in general on the front page (in fact, you can link this post, quote my list or my post, whatever you want) to see what OTHER women think and if THEY and the REST of the men on this forum think it is too feminine. Go for it.

---

I am sure all women are in your team. Relationships are a team sport,

of course all women would support you out of solidarity.

Men would think it is feminine.

How can I out this question on the front page? Is there a special forum for that?

 

Women generally are not looking for a one night lay or something too short term, they are looking for someone who they can trust for the long haul. Hence a list about character, and personality, rather than looks.

---

Thats right. Although in dating we have to decied on the spot "Yes or no",

and women simple dont have that oopotunity to figure out character or personality. So they go for sexy looks\good job. But later of of course the "values" might be very different.

[RayKay]

You are assuming I hide what I want from the men I date. I DON'T. I talk to them about it. I tell them I want a family. What I don't say is "do you want a family in the future, because if not, I don't want to talk to you". You don't do that the first couple dates.

 

I am not scared of scaring my man away. We live together, we know where we are going. I would not have moved in with him if we had not. We have talked about it, and before I moved in with him I ensured we were going to same place. I did not "hide it" in common goals...we talked about where our goals were and made sure we were going the same place - that includes family, where we are going to live, etc. I did not say family was "common values"..I said GOALS. Values is about your commitment to the relationship, your priorities, etc.

 

You never asked for MY ENTIRE LIST, all you took was my "definition" of what I want in a nice guy, and MADE it my list. I was not going to write out all my values and goals for you, and why should I? It was irrelavant to this discussion. I am not looking for a date on here. And they are MINE and for my PARTNER to know.

 

Again these are all things you discuss when you start seeing one another...BEFORE you are exclusive.

 

I never ever said I did not care about sex. Heck I love sex and have a very healthy sex life. Is it something once I meet a guy I say "hey are you good in bed?" NO! SEX IS VERY IMPORTANT, but a sexual relationship develops along with the rest of the relationship. You can talk of your likes dislikes, talk about ways to have fun with it.

 

Once again you are inferring. Look at the post where I started, I quoted another post talking about NICE GUYS. I said I want a nice guy with a twist. I did not mean it to be my entire list. I did NOT say "sex" because that is not something I talk about when I first meet a guy! Sex is important, as is emotional intimacy, mental connections all of it. And most people will be aware that there is an emotional componenet to sex, there is NO reading it to it. I do not HIDE things from my guy nor he from mine. I NEVER ONCE SAID DON'T TELL A GUY WHAT YOU WANT. In fact if you read my posts other than here you would know you have to stand up for what you want and let it be known.

 

My list was not everything, it was about my DEFINITION OF A NICE GUY. My definition of a nice guy was not going to say "stallion in bed". Of course, you are free to search my posts in sex and romance and such for my sexual history and likes if it is THAT important to YOU.

 

Don't assume things about me. You know what happens when you assume....and don't get so inflammatory it is not necessary. Basically inferring I am an idiot is not necessary. Telling me my definition of a nice guy is not true is silly, as it is MINE.

 

Obviously you MUST know more about healthy relationships then I do, I better also warn my partner that I really want a woman and not him. Uh huh. I appreciate your ability to take my words, take out the parts that dispute your point and twist it around to "make me look in the wrong". Its quite the talent you have there.

 

If you want it on front, talk to a moderator, or post a new post with a link and automatically goes on front forum.

[al7]

RayKay

 

You are assuming I hide what I want from the men I date. I DON'T.

---

We are about the list. There you could be more open that on a first date.

You never mentioned the most important things there: sex\kids\jobs.

but rather said: values are kids, sex is emotional fullfilment and jobs I dont care.

 

You never asked for MY ENTIRE LIST, all you took was my "definition" of what I want in a nice guy, and MADE it my list. I was not going to write out all my values and goals for you

---

Wait...Did you say that:

 

So what do we want? A nice guy with values and morals, who will treat us with respect, desire us, be interested in us and caring, and with a zesty twist of interesting, independent, confident, passionate and fun (mmmmmm!). A guy who is a "man's man", but also lets it be known that his heart is fully invested with his woman

 

You said what you wanted in men, and I am sure you mentioned most importnat qualities for you. I see this as you want a nice guy with the abovementioned features. It is not JUST a separate definition of a nice guy. It it the nice guy you wanted.

 

 

I never ever said I did not care about sex. Heck I love sex and have a very healthy sex life. Is it something once I meet a guy I say "hey are you good in bed?" NO! SEX IS VERY IMPORTANT, but a sexual relationship develops along with the rest of the relationship.

---

I am lost. You dont talk about sex on a first date which is fine.

And you dont about sex in the list of s nice guy you want either.

It seems you dont talk about such an important matter as sex at all unless sombody asks you. You still think you are not hiding sex,you sure?

I am sorry I bugs you, but you just didnt say anything at all about it.

 

I did not mean it to be my entire list.

---

You said"So what do we want? A nice guy with values and morals, who...

Ok, it was not a entire list. may I assume it was a list of most important qualities in a man you want? Or it was just an arbitrary list of nice guy

things?

 

I did NOT say "sex" because that is not something I talk about when I first meet a guy!

---

Thats good, not on a first date.

When you were writing the list were you feeling like on a first date, right?

Amazing really.

 

I do not HIDE things from my guy nor he from mine.

---

Very cool. I am pretty sure the list was not designed for you guys.

It was for guys here!

 

Of course, you are free to search my posts in sex and romance and such for my sexual history and likes if it is THAT important to YOU.

---

Should I? Hmm...if you recommend...

[Mun]

Hi there,

We don't have to agree with the other's opinion, as everyone had a different point of view, you ask a question--you get a range of answers..that's how it goes.

 

I'm going to ask that you please stay on topic here and be respectful to each other. This thread is getting pretty close to flamming.

[Ceema-k]

I'm glad you liked the diagram, RayKay! That's the most artistic flair i'll ever be putting into my posts, sadly

 

al7: Yeah, the diagram is one of those "common-sense, oh of course that's true" sort of deals. But personally I still find it useful, so I can remind myself that attracting women is not about modelling yourself after negative stereotypes (i.e. The Jerk). I also get irked when people foccus only on polar extremes (on any issue) and totally disregard the middle ground, which more often than not, makes the most sense.

 

You mentioned your friend how started adopting a "who cares" attitude. I think that's great.. cuz that doesn't necessarily mean he's acting like a jerk with women. What are the results of this transforrmation? Is it quantifiable (sleeping with many women each month)? Qualitative (found a great gf)? Or does he simply feel better about himself?

 

All I want to get accross really is you go out on the street and see couples. Can you honestly think each of those guys is a jerk? Of course not. Sure the jerks are out there, doing their thing and working their niche. They continue to serve the needs of women who have low self-esteem, emotional issues or the chronically immature. occasionally, jerks will crossover and poach women who would otherwise have the better judgement to go with a "Good Guy" or even a "Wimp".

 

What I should have done with my diagram was make the Nice Guy circle the largest of the 3.. to represent the fact that most guys out there are decent dudes and deserve to have great relationships. A lot of my friends fall into that category. They are NICE, upstanding guys, who have their share of insecurities and other human frailties. They treat girls they date with respect and do nice things for them. No surprise, a few of them have a "who cares" attitude that helps to attract ladies & also protects their own egos. They are all these things... but they rarely ever take crap from women. They don't allow themselves to be pushed around. That's key. I admire my friends for that. Not because they are players and sleep with someone new each week. But because they can be attractive guys and still stay true to themselves.