How do you know if you're bothering someone?

[MattW]

and 2) The acceptance that she doesn't see you as more than a friend and co-worker who she likes and respects, and that it's not going to happen between the two of you.

 

I wish I could get this one. v_v I know you guys are pretty confident that she's definitely not interested, but I still don't think it's always as simple as "She said no, she's not interested, and she never will be". I still feel mixed signals from her. Additionally, I really wish I knew just how truthful she was being about school making her really busy. When I was confiding to another girl that knows both of us, said girl affirmed to me that the girl I like IS (or was, now) pretty busy with school. The other day, I also overheard the girl I like remarking about how she hasn't even started seriously doing her Christmas shopping until this week due to how busy she's been.

 

I have been trying to just enjoy the time I get to be with her, but she graduates this Sunday, and the closer she's gotten to graduation, the more I've been wondering if I could talk to her again about all of this. I've thought about asking her to go for coffee with me. Seems light and simple enough to not really be a "date", but I think any mention of she and I doing something together just the two of us is going to remind her of that notion, yanno? I also thought that perhaps I should wait until the holidays pass, because they can be kind of stressful and chaotic, and I wouldn't want that to make for an easy excuse to not get together.

 

I don't know. I wish I could "test the waters", somehow, to see where she stands, without "rocking the boat" so much that she gets upset with me for "asking her out again". Not that I'm definitely going to "try again" with her, but I'd like to know for sure before she leaves, because if she WOULD be willing to give it another shot and I don't go for it, then I'll miss the opportunity I've been hoping for. I dunno.

[MikNomis]

If I can tell you one thing, it's that mixed signals are almost always bad.

 

There's no way to test the waters without rocking the boat. It's either she thinks you're asking her out or not. If she thinks you are, then you'll probably get rejected again. If she doesn't think you are, then you'd have gotten nowhere.

 

Yes, we're pretty confident in her interest level, and we wish it were better news. But if you don't want to believe it, then go ahead and keep trying. As long as you don't end up with any regrets what does it really matter anyway.

[putter65]

it's tough because alot of people talk out of politeness. Go by your gut instinct.

[MattW]

If I can tell you one thing, it's that mixed signals are almost always bad.

 

Well, perhaps "mixed signals" was the wrong choice of words. I just meant that I'm not so good at reading her. I do feel like she still sometimes sends me "signals", but I can never tell if she is, or if I'm getting my hopes up and reading too much into things.

 

it's tough because alot of people talk out of politeness. Go by your gut instinct.

 

Eh. My "gut instincts" tend to have pretty mixed results, unfortunately. My "guy instinct" tells me that she's not completely uninterested, but according to you guys, I'm wrong about that. There's a couple of other girls I've been confiding to outside of the Internet, one thinks I should just "go for it" for the peace of mind, the other said I should "stick around" after the girl finishes school and ask her to go out for coffee (or something simple like that) and take things from there.

 

So, I don't know. There are two outcomes I'm super terrified of:

 

1) She's definitely not interested, I'll ask her again, she'll get upset, I'll look bad, and it'll be a big mess.

 

2) She'd be willing to give it a chance, but I back off and don't bring it up again, she leaves, and I miss out on the opportunity I've been hoping for.

 

The first one actually happened to me once, years ago, with the last girl I was interested in; while not nearly as honest and upfront about it as the current girl, the last girl blew me off once, I got back on good terms with her after an awkward period, I tried to take another shot with her (and I went WAY overboard), and she cut me out of her life completely. I felt awful for the longest time that I came off as some pathetic lovesick loser, and that that was the last thing she'd ever remember about me. I don't want to make that mistake again, and I don't want to feel that way again, but I also don't want to wonder if things could've worked out differently, either. I mean, I handled things pretty poorly with that last girl all those years ago... Perhaps if I handle things differently, it won't be as bad?

 

Eh, I don't know. I have so many conflicting sources of input telling me different things, and I just don't know what the best thing to do would be. You guys are all absolutely sure it's a lost cause and that there's nothing at all I can do to turn things around with her, my gut wants to believe it's not that hopeless, and the people I've talked to offline about it don't think it would be the worst thing in the world if I tried again. I'm not sure where that leaves me.

[camus154]

Maybe you should quit analyzing this into the ground and make a decision, instead of rehashing the same possibilities over and over again.

 

We get it. You don't think it's a lost cause, but you're scared of being rejected again, but you don't think it's a lost cause....just make a decision and take action, already.

[MattW]

Eh, well, I still have some time, and like I said, I'm waiting out her graduation and the holidays, before I actually make a decision one way or another. Well, that and, like I said, if I do it right before she leaves for a new job, that minimizes any potential "fallout" from things going poorly.

 

But, waiting can get kinda frustrating, and in the meantime, it's hard not to ponder over it so that when the time comes, I know what I'm going to do.

[Batya33]

What I do is assume the other person needs more space than I think, I give that space and let the other person come to me.

[Wonderstruck]

Ouf...knowing this about your past, I'd say that maybe you should really think about whether this current girl is ACTUALLY sending you any signals, or whether you just find it really difficult to accept when somebody turns you down, and always feel compelled to "give it another shot" until they make it painfully clear that they meant it the first time.

 

If you really think that things might be different with this new girl, I'm starting to agree with your friend who said that you should just ask her out one more time for your peace of mind. At least that way you'll know for certain where you stand with her, and you can stop all of this wishy-washy back-and-forth deliberating you keep doing. Get yourself out of this emotional limbo, man up, and ask her out. If she declines yet again, then you know FOR SURE that she is sincerely NOT INTERESTED, and then you need to BACK OFF so that you don't have a repeat of the situation with the former girl. If she says yes, well...that's progress and maybe you were right about those "signals" you feel like she's sending you.

 

I honestly think this is the best course of action at this point, because with the way that you've been constantly obsessing over this situation, there's NO WAY that you're ever going to forgive yourself or let it go if you don't try one more time. You're always going to wonder "What if?" and it will keep you hung up on this girl forever, even if you actually had no shot with her.

 

At least if you ask her out and get shot down again, you can rest assured that you didn't miss out on any opportunity, and that you really stand no chance with her. Providing that you actually freaking accept it if she turns you down a second time, and don't start coming up with creative excuses for why she turned you down again, but still might secretly like you. And if she DOES turn you down again - ACCEPT IT AND DON'T COME UP WITH CREATIVE EXCUSES FOR WHY SHE TURNED YOU DOWN BUT STILL SECRETLY LIKES YOU. Because that's when you enter creepy, delusional, in denial zone, and no one will have any sympathy for you at that point.

[MattW]

Ouf...knowing this about your past, I'd say that maybe you should really think about whether this current girl is ACTUALLY sending you any signals, or whether you just find it really difficult to accept when somebody turns you down, and always feel compelled to "give it another shot" until they make it painfully clear that they meant it the first time.

 

Well, the situations with both girls were pretty different from one another. With that previous girl, it was really an "online" thing; I knew her (and was crazy about her) when we were kids, then I got back in touch with her via a social networking website when we both were starting college. We chatted a bit online, and then I brought up the idea of hanging out some time to catch up (I didn't even call it a date), and she went dark on me right then and there. That should've been an obvious answer to me, at the time, but for some reason I can't remember, I wanted to "fix" it. I waited a few months, then wrote her again, and she wrote me once or twice, then I asked her about getting together again, she didn't answer again, and then I sent a very regrettable message (not "regrettable" in that it was mean or rude or offensive, it just made me look like a complete dope). I never heard from her again after that.

 

At least with her, the signals were pretty clear, and I was stupid for not seeing them. With this current girl, not so much. I mean, yeah, she declined my first date offer, but her reasoning at the time was understandable (provided she was being completely truthful), and we've since continued to have little "moments" together over the last couple months even after she turned me down. Had she immediately distanced herself from me, and had our friendship changed (for the worse), I'd definitely agree that things with her are a lost cause, but given the way things are, I'm just not so sure.

 

If you really think that things might be different with this new girl, I'm starting to agree with your friend who said that you should just ask her out one more time for your peace of mind. At least that way you'll know for certain where you stand with her, and you can stop all of this wishy-washy back-and-forth deliberating you keep doing. Get yourself out of this emotional limbo, man up, and ask her out. If she declines yet again, then you know FOR SURE that she is sincerely NOT INTERESTED, and then you need to BACK OFF so that you don't have a repeat of the situation with the former girl. If she says yes, well...that's progress and maybe you were right about those "signals" you feel like she's sending you.

 

I honestly think this is the best course of action at this point, because with the way that you've been constantly obsessing over this situation, there's NO WAY that you're ever going to forgive yourself or let it go if you don't try one more time. You're always going to wonder "What if?" and it will keep you hung up on this girl forever, even if you actually had no shot with her.

 

At least if you ask her out and get shot down again, you can rest assured that you didn't miss out on any opportunity, and that you really stand no chance with her. Providing that you actually freaking accept it if she turns you down a second time, and don't start coming up with creative excuses for why she turned you down again, but still might secretly like you. And if she DOES turn you down again - ACCEPT IT AND DON'T COME UP WITH CREATIVE EXCUSES FOR WHY SHE TURNED YOU DOWN BUT STILL SECRETLY LIKES YOU. Because that's when you enter creepy, delusional, in denial zone, and no one will have any sympathy for you at that point.

 

Yeah, no, I know there's no "third chance" if she were to turn me down again. That's part of the reason I'm looking to wait until next month, because if I try now and she hits me with the "Well, I'm kinda stressed right now with the holidays" buffer, I'll probably still find myself wondering. If I at least wait until there's no easy excuses, she'll have to be a bit more clear with me, which will help her answer sink in better.

 

Anyway, what I've been looking for is for some advice on the best, most inoffensive way of talking to her about it again, that is the least likely to upset her/ invoke a majorly negative reaction from her. Everyone seems to rather tell me to just drop it and move on, rather than helping me figure out the best way to carry it out.

[camus154]

Yeah, no, I know there's no "third chance" if she were to turn me down again. That's part of the reason I'm looking to wait until next month, because if I try now and she hits me with the "Well, I'm kinda stressed right now with the holidays" buffer, I'll probably still find myself wondering. If I at least wait until there's no easy excuses, she'll have to be a bit more clear with me, which will help her answer sink in better.

 

You do realize you're putting it on her shoulders to help you get something through your head, right? You think you can manipulate your chances here so that if she turns you down, at least she'll be forced to do it in a way that sinks in? There will always be "easy excuses". It's up to you--not her--to accept this and move on.

 

Anyway, what I've been looking for is for some advice on the best, most inoffensive way of talking to her about it again, that is the least likely to upset her/ invoke a majorly negative reaction from her. Everyone seems to rather tell me to just drop it and move on, rather than helping me figure out the best way to carry it out.

 

Do this: "Hey, would you like to go out with me?"

 

If she says anything but "yes", then move on.

[MattW]

You do realize you're putting it on her shoulders to help you get something through your head, right? You think you can manipulate your chances here so that if she turns you down, at least she'll be forced to do it in a way that sinks in? There will always be "easy excuses". It's up to you--not her--to accept this and move on.

 

I see what you're saying. Still, if there's an obvious "easy excuse" floating around, I'd like to do what I can to avoid it. Besides, let's say I talk to her again and it goes really badly... I don't want to ruin both her and my holidays because of it. I'd rather just let us have happy holidays, and then give things a go at a less stressful time.

[MattW]

So, I'm less convinced now that I'm going to "try again" with her. No, this isn't a negative, brooding post. Last night, I had a lot of fun with her, and for once, I was looking at her in a purely platonic way. I didn't see any of the "vibes" I usually think I get from her, but I was okay with that. I wouldn't say I'm yet completely "over" the feelings I have for her, and I'd always be open to dating her if she ever did change her mind, but I think I'm at a point where I could just be friends with her, and be okay. I actually do hope, though, that I can develop and maintain a deeper friendship with her past when she leaves a new job. I could use some good friends, and I really think she could be one of them. I'm not completely sure how to go about making that happen, especially with probably so little time left before she actually does leave, but I really, really hope she and I can get there.

[happpybear]

this is the way i see it

 

You tried, she said no. it was a firm no

 

you think you see 'signs', but likely you are not

 

Things are already weird, if you try again it will make it so much more weird.

 

weirdness is a bad sign, when i encounter weirdness in the interactions with someone i like, i immediately abort mission. why? because it shouldn't be weird!

 

The way i see it, she likely knows that you are still interested, any mixed signals you are getting is her unsure of how to deal when you are around, she probably wants to be freindly with you because she likes you as a friend, but is wary because you are clearly obsessed and will take it all the wrong way, and then she might have to turn you down again and make the situation even more uncomfortable.

 

i think your experiment was good for you to help get over her, but deep down you wanted a reaction from her. admit it. everything you do with regard to this woman is to see her reaction because you are desperate for her to react in a way that will give you a sign that she is into you, hence justifying your desire to ask her out again. stop it.

 

In these situations, if you wanna get over her and keep it friendly, just do the slow fade, if you normally talk everyday, slow it down to 3 days a week, then 2 then 1. smile and say hi but don't stop to chat. you are at work so do your job and put your energy into it and maybe you will get promoted or get a better bonus or respect from your boss etc. when you start to thing of her, stop your mind from wandering and focus it back to your JOB. eventually this all will pass. go out and meet new girls, go online dating just to meet people, for fun.

[camus154]

I think this is great news, man. She's one step off the pedestal and you're one step closer to acceptance.

 

Hope you had a good birthday.

[MattW]

So, any, er... tips, or advice on how to build up a deeper friendship with her before she leaves? I wonder if it might be kind of a challenge, because I feel like she still feels a little weird about me since I asked her out before. I wish there were a way I could ease her mind and let her know I'm okay with the way things are and that she doesn't have to worry about me still "pursuing" her. Hm.

[blueidealist24]

So, any, er... tips, or advice on how to build up a deeper friendship with her before she leaves? I wonder if it might be kind of a challenge, because I feel like she still feels a little weird about me since I asked her out before. I wish there were a way I could ease her mind and let her know I'm okay with the way things are and that she doesn't have to worry about me still "pursuing" her. Hm.

 

You could tell her you're interested in someone else.. not someone she knows but someone fictitious who she wouldn't know..

[MikNomis]

So, any, er... tips, or advice on how to build up a deeper friendship with her before she leaves? I wonder if it might be kind of a challenge, because I feel like she still feels a little weird about me since I asked her out before. I wish there were a way I could ease her mind and let her know I'm okay with the way things are and that she doesn't have to worry about me still "pursuing" her. Hm.

 

DUDE you're totally transparent right now. I don't know if you're doing it intentionally or if you're in denial or what but you're so obviously still just trying to get close to her because you like her. Seriously, just do something. Anything.

[MattW]

Eh, no, it's not like that. Like I said, I know I'm not COMPLETELY over my feelings for her yet (and again, dating her is never "off the table" on my end, should she ever change her mind), but I really do think I'm getting better now, and I really want to be friends with her. I'm only asking for advice on how to do that because A) I'm still a bit socially inept, and B) the circumstances between me and her are a tad more "tricky" than any two given people.

[happpybear]

look you can't be friends with her. you want to get in her pants, she doesn't want you there so she won't ever treat you like a normal friend because it is obvious. best to just be an aquaintance.

 

dating her is never "off the table" on my end

 

what if she never changes her mind? are you gonna be still waiting 7 years later?? and why would you want to wait for her to like you? either she does or she doesn't, right now. just move on, you are wasting time on this chick who isn't into you when you could be out meeting the right girl

[MattW]

No, I'm not "waiting for her to like me". All I'm saying is, I think she and I could be great friends, and I feel like I'm getting to the point with my feelings for her that I can actually make that friendship work; all I meant was that, if over the course of our friendship, she happened to change her mind and want to date me, I wouldn't exactly say no, yanno? But I'm not looking for or expecting that to happen. I just want some awesome friends in my life right now, and she has the makings to be one of the better ones I could have at the moment.

[Ayanokōji]

Same boat as you until I started watching a lot of tv series, the most generalized/stereotypical social behavior is demonstrated in them, not talking about American B.S. Now I read people extremely accurately.

[MikNomis]

If you enjoy the friendzone stay in it.

[happpybear]

maybe she doesn't want to be friends with you, and that's why ypu haven't been successful 'building a deeper connection' or whatever, i never stayed friends with any man that has previously asked me out, and most girls i know also don't cross that line. becasue we know that the attraction isn't just going to go away, and then we have this 'friend' who isn't and doesn't really want to be a friend, hovering in our lives, waiting in the wings. it isn't a sincere freindship.

[MattW]

To be fair, aside from asking her out on a date, I've never even really actually tried to build a "deeper friendship" with her. So, it's not so much that I "haven't been successful", I just haven't really tried to "reach out" to her that way because I don't know how to do so, and I'm afraid of being weird and awkward about it. I mean, I'm socially inept, here. I've never made much effort to make friendships with anyone. Heck, I've never swapped phone numbers with any of my other coworkers, either, and I rarely see them outside of work, either, but I want to. I want to make friends with more of them, as well, but this girl especially.

 

I really do want to be her friend. Even if she and I aren't dating, I love the "connection" that we seem to have, and I just want to see her happy, even if she's not "with" me. Again, I'm never going to be opposed to the idea of dating her if things changed on her end, but I'm not "waiting in the wings" for her to change her mind, or anything like that. I just want at least one good friend in my life.

[happpybear]

but obviously she hasn't reached out either, am i right?

 

I really do want to be her friend. Even if she and I aren't dating, I love the "connection" that we seem to have, and I just want to see her happy, even if she's not "with" me. Again, I'm never going to be opposed to the idea of dating her if things changed on her end, but I'm not "waiting in the wings" for her to change her mind, or anything like that. I just want at least one good friend in my life.

 

i don't know you, but i don't believe this. regardless i don;t think you want advice here, because you are arguing everthing everyone is saying.