One last shot?

[MattW]

I'm feeling some mixed emotions today, due to some information I've learned about a girl I've been dealing with feelings for for a few months now. I apologize in advance for the length of this topic, but I'm in a "writey" kind of mood, and I really want to sort through my various thoughts and emotions, and figure out the best way to go about things from here.

 

Anyway, if you're not familiar with my story, to put it bluntly, I already took a shot with her once, and she turned me down at the time (though we've continued to be pretty close when we see each other, since then). There's been this other guy we both know, though, and I've always kinda disliked him (because he's your typical douchey "player" type), and that dislike kind of intensified when I fell for this girl, because he's constantly been flirting with her, himself (even though he has a girlfriend). I've been kinda concerned about him and her, but today I found something out...

 

Turns out, they actually did date a little before I had developed feelings for her. Things ended badly, though, because he was seeing someone else at the time, too. On one hand, I feel like it's better that I know this, now, because the wondering was killing me (and I guess it could've been worse; according to the girl that told me about them dating, they didn't sleep together, or anything like that). But it's left me feeling a little bothered, too. For one, it irks me that she would've dated him in the first place; he's always been his douchey "player" self, and I always thought she was too good/ too smart to fall for a guy like that. It also makes me kinda sad to think that she would've dated him, but would've give me a chance. In general, that makes me feel like even if there were more girls out there for me, they'd still end up choosing the douchey "player" over me. I'm not mad or upset with her, but I do kinda feel a little hurt. Not by her, but just hurt. I also feel a ton of regret; like, had I liked her sooner, and asked her out before him, maybe she and I would've gotten together and things would've been much different.

 

Anyway, the way she turned me down seems to make more sense now. When I first asked her out, she basically said she was iffy on the idea of dating coworkers (which would make sense, considering she got "burned" by that other guy first), but said she'd think about it. A couple weeks later when we talked again, she said she was too busy with finishing school (she's in her last semester right now, and she is working super hard to be done with school) to "date" or focus on a relationship right now. Perhaps I'm naive, but I think she's a very smart and honest girl. I feel like if she wanted to shut me down completely, she could've done so easily without being "harsh" or "mean". Heck, I don't get why she didn't just say no after the whole "dating coworkers" talk. That was a perfectly acceptable excuse to give; it never made much sense to me why she'd say that, but postpone the rejection for a couple weeks to use school as an excuse. Even then, she could've said something more definitive like "I don't think of you that way, let's just be friends", and that would've been perfectly fine (and not "mean" or "harsh", either).

 

I expect that once she finishes school in the coming weeks, it won't be long before she leaves for a new, better job, and I won't see her again. I know, at this point, I sound obsessed and hung up. But I'm not looking at this in a "I must have her, she must be mine!" kind of way. I just really like her a lot, and I kind of wonder if perhaps the whole timing of everything kinda threw things off. That happens, right? Those that know my posts know I rarely find a girl I want to be with. If there's any chance at all (even if it's super, super tiny) she may give me a shot, I don't want to let that opportunity pass by, especially with her imminent departure. Even if I'm wasting my time, there's only maybe 2-3 months left for me and her, anyway, so it's not like it's that much time wasted.

 

The problem is, it's difficult to find a way to bring this up again and have this conversation, without it making things awkward and uncomfortable. I don't want her to see me as "that" guy, the desperate loser that she can't get rid of. But I just can't help but be curious about how she really feels. It's not so much that I can't accept her rejection, I'm just always curious about the truth. I'd never be hostile and aggressive to get to it, but I just want to know if there's any chance she would give things a shot with me.

 

I dunno. I'm not saying I will, for sure, try again with her, but if I do, it'd be closer to the time she leaves, so in case things do end up getting bad, we won't see each other anymore afterwards, anyway.

 

But there has to be some way to talk to her about this and see where she's at with it without it being awkward and "hostile", isn't there? I mean, we're adults, we can talk about this stuff without having a fight. I just wonder what the best way to go about it is.

 

I understand if anyone here is just going to smack me and tell me to move on, but honestly, I don't see that happening until she actually leaves. Hence why I'm trying to figure out this "one last shot". When she leaves, I just want to put all my cards on the table, and take that one final last ditch effort. If she goes for it, awesome. If not, she exits my life completely and I'm forced to move on anyway. So, I don't mean to sound rude, but if that's all you're going to contribute, please save it. I've heard it, and I understand the sentiment. All I'm trying to do is figure out the best possible way to make this "last ditch effort".

[Elektra22]

From my point of view, it sounds like she's just trying to be nice and let you down gently. I've used this approach with guys when I wasn't really into them to kind of soften the blow. I usually only straight out say no or am more blunt if the guy won't take no for an answer because I don't like to hurt someone's feelings maybe that's messed up and I should be more direct all the time... However, I believe that girls are like guys in this respect if they want to be with you they won't make up excuses not to- if they're interested they will reciprocate the sentiment and encourage your suit.

[happpybear]

ya, i don't know if you guys have any idea how hard it is to turn someone down. have you ever had a girl ask you out and you had to say no in a nice way? Sometimes it is easier to tell a little white lie and make it about yourself rather than the guy. At least she said something...could have been worse, for example, i was once rejected by a dude who knew i liked him by him avoiding me and purposefully ignoring me...so at least she isn't pulling that crap on ya!

[CeeLambrini]

Look at the situation properly. You've left her with the ball in her court twice now, and because she hasn't reciprocated you've taken it on yourself to put it there again. I know your heart is in the right place and I'm not telling you to "just move on" but, I'm going to hint at it and give you reasons why, rather than give you the impersonal blunt affect that you're probably wanting to avoid here.

 

Let's say all of her reasons are just nice ways of saying "no". You've taken the "no" part, and concentrated on the reason she's given you - turned it into a clue as to what must be done to cancel out that reason, and then decided that it wasn't ever a "no", and that it was just a matter of waiting.

 

Her first reason was she didn't like to date coworkers. It probably was something to do with Mr. Douche and therefore I'm not telling you that you are completely clueless here, you are getting it somewhat. She, however, said she'd think about it and she did. She came up with the fact that maybe it wasn't because of Mr. Douche, but she also had finishing school to worry about, so she couldn't date you regardless.

Now the conclusion you have come to is that all you have to do is wait until she's done with finishing school and then you're home free.

 

Both times, the ball was in her court. If anything, she did reciprocate by telling you that she had thought about it and then added a "BUT" to the reasoning.

I honestly think that asking her yet again is going to make you too pushy. The best thing to do would be to assume that she isn't interested until she actually comes to you and says "Right, I'm ready". So really, I'm not saying "Just move on", but I am saying - don't push the situation anymore, you've done all you can. You've left it up to her twice now, and you have had to go up to her both times - only to have her give you two different reasons on why she can't date you. Do you want the third to be your persistence?

[BrianH46]

Well you can keep trying, push her away, and come off as creepy however I say do it. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain given your love life situation. Attempt something bold and try some subtle pua techniques, that's your best shot in my opinion. Be direct tell her (not ask her) a time and place that you will take her out, if she says yes (slim chance) try your best to be confident and make an attraction case for yourself. Goodluck and always remember a good thing from experiences like this is you will be less scared of rejection each time.

[MattW]

Er, well, just to clarify, I didn't really "put the ball in her court twice". I only asked her out the one time, she said the coworker thing, but said she'd think about it; when we saw each other again, she was the one that started the discussion with me where she said no (though I think she was waiting a bit for me to bring it up again, as she had plenty of time to start the discussion with me throughout the day, and when I didn't bring it up, it seems like she kind of reluctantly took the initiative in starting the discussion).

 

Thing is, I'm not expecting that she's, like, madly in love with me, or has strong feelings for me, and that she's actively pursuing me, and that we'd immediately jump into this passionate loving relationship. It just starts with a date. All I'm kinda looking for is that one chance. I'm not looking to "have it all" with her right away, I'm just looking for her to take a chance on me, and possibly build something from there. If she were "madly in love with me", then yeah, I imagine no excuses like school or whatever would stop her from wanting to be with me. But I'm not expecting her to be "there", and that's okay; she doesn't have to be. Like I said, all I'm looking for is for her to take a chance on me.

 

It seems like she's of the mindset, though, that the guy should kind of be the one to "take the lead" and "make the moves" with a girl, and that's fine, that seems to be the "norm" anyway. So, even if she were willing to take a chance on me, I don't expect that she'd actively pursue me for it. She'd maybe drop hints at it, and it'd be up to me to be smart enough to pick up on those hints (which doesn't help, because I don't know how to "see" those hints, and as it is, some of the stuff she says and does to me makes me wonder). Maybe she thinks I've moved on? Maybe she thinks I wouldn't be interested? I think either way, it'd be up to me to make the move again. Unless she develops strong feelings for me (and again, I don't expect that), I don't see her being the one to actively pursue me. It's always going to be up to me to make the move.

 

If, IF, I take another shot with her, I want to be as civil and understanding about it as I possibly can. I'm not, like, going to drop to my knees in tears going "Why won't you go out with me?!" or anything silly like that. I've always kind of thought saying something like "Hey, so, now that school's done with/ you're leaving soon, any chance you might be willing to give that date another thought at all?" sounds light and inoffensive, but that's just me, maybe I'm wrong.

 

Like I said, I don't have the "I must have her, she will be mine!" mindset. I just want to make sure there's really zero chance that she'd consider giving me a shot before she leaves. I just like her so much, and I never ever find that, so can you really blame me for wanting to make sure I've exhausted all the options with her before she goes away?

[MattW]

Her first reason was she didn't like to date coworkers. It probably was something to do with Mr. Douche and therefore I'm not telling you that you are completely clueless here, you are getting it somewhat. She, however, said she'd think about it and she did. She came up with the fact that maybe it wasn't because of Mr. Douche, but she also had finishing school to worry about, so she couldn't date you regardless.

Now the conclusion you have come to is that all you have to do is wait until she's done with finishing school and then you're home free.

 

Oh, also... I'm not "convincing" myself that she was implying that she'd give it a shot once these reasons go away. I just don't really see the harm in seeing where she stands once they're no longer there, yanno? Who's to say patience and persistence can't be virtues? Who's to say she wasn't affected enough by that guy, and who's to say that she isn't really that busy with school, that it was more a matter of her feeling like she couldn't date right now rather than her actually being uninterested in me personally?

 

I feel like there's a fine line between "persistence" and "pushy", and I'm just trying to ride that line long enough to make sure there's absolutely positively no chance she'd consider anything with me.

[CeeLambrini]

I don't know why you're putting "quotes" because I never said you were convincing yourself here. That would imply you were delusional over this whole thing which I don't think you are.

 

I feel like there's a fine line between "persistence" and "pushy", and I'm just trying to ride that line long enough to make sure there's absolutely positively no chance she'd consider anything with me.

 

This is my point - my bottom line really. If she does like you and does mean what she says, when she says she can't date you - then being persistent may rock the boat enough to where she does think you are a pushy person and it may effect her actually coming to you when she is done with finishing school etc.

But to be honest, asking for opinion and then arguing against every detail without taking any of what I said into some form of consideration makes me regret spending so much time writing to you. If it's not what you want to hear, then I'm sorry. I have no other incentive to give you advice other than to help you - not put you down, not make you feel bad, not even to annoy or irritate. It's just my opinion, I'm a female who is concentrating on me and my work. I've just come out of a douchey-player-type situation and I'm putting my studies first. This is what I will be telling anyone who is interested in dating me - and if they come back in two weeks, or a month from now asking again and so on, then my reasoning for not dating them will go from me wanting to concentrate on myself, to me not wanting to be with someone who doesn't respect my wishes. But of course, you know her better - I am certainly not her, but the only point of view I can advise from is the girls, and I am in an extremely similar position to her.

 

Saying that, everyone is different - I am simply playing devils advocate and showing you a different yet more disappointing point of view. I wish you luck anyway sweetie, trust me - I am not going to be disappointed if I am wrong here, in fact I will be completely the opposite. It's nice to find success stories on here.

[blueidealist24]

What if you wait until the last day of work you have together, and just pass her your number and be like "If you ever want to go out for a coffee, give me a call." Then it doesn't necessarily sound like a complete date if she doesn't want it to be, but you could try to gage some romantic interest if she comes.

 

The fact that she came back to you with the busy with school thing, and you didn't go to her means she probably actually DID think about dating you and a small bit of her thought that maybe she could. If she didn't see you as an option AT ALL, she would have probably just said "No, I don't date coworkers" and never brought it up again. The reason she doesn't date coworkers probably does have to do with that other guy, and maybe she IS actually busy with school. There is also a chance that she thought about dating you, but met another guy she liked in between the time you asked her out and the time she gave the school excuse. Anyway, I don't see the harm in passing her your number on your last day together. It wouldn't look like you're creepy and obsessed. But only entertain a 50/50 shot of her calling.

[MattW]

@ Cee

 

I wasn't trying to be rude or disregard anything you said (also, the quotes are just something I do for emphasis). I just get so wrapped up with my thoughts and feelings, and I don't want to believe I'm wrong about this girl and the situation in general.

 

Truth is, I'm just playing around with these ideas because no matter what, I can't stop thinking about her as long as she still has some presence in my life. Honestly, I probably won't actually end up doing or saying anything to her before she leaves. Well, knowing me, I might give a small corny goodbye, but that's about as much as I'll probably manage.

[Ms Darcy]

This is why it's so hard being a girl sometimes (or the person who gets 'liked' by someone else). Because if the other person does not move on and wants to keep trying, then you have to go through the heartache of trying to turn them down nicely again.

 

It upsets me because I hate being put in a position of turning someone down twice. NOTHING has happened in the meantime between you two since you asked her out to give you hope. It's just other stuff you are hearing from other people. Hmm, not really good evidence for you. But since you are unwilling to listen to reason, or listen to HER, I say go for it AGAIN. Make her upset and ruin the friendship so you can finally accept that she's not interested.

[Slimpee]

My knee-jerk reaction is that if she were interested in you enough to date you, she'd find a way to make it happen.

 

However, I know a guy who was friendzoned level 1000, and I never thought he'd get out, but somehow over one weekend he got out and they were engaged a few months later. The danger w/ that story, however, is that it's the rare exception, not the rule. So yes, there's a chance that if you stay in her life as a friend, it may work out romantically at some point. The trouble is that it's far more likely that you'll continue to be hung up on this girl (you clearly have her on a pedestal) and everytime you interact with her you'll squeeze every last drop of meaning from her every body movement and word in an attempt to convince yourself that deep down she has feelings for you. Furthermore, and probably worse, you won't be able to see other women for who they really are because you'll be too busy thinking this one girl is perfect for you. You may miss out on something really great.

 

I know because i've been in a somewhat similar situation. I have decided that I don't like the obsessed, whiney, overanalytical person i've become so i'm going to try my best to distance myself and move on.

 

Do you like the version of yourself this situation has made you? I bet that if you made a similar decision, you'll be happy with yourself...

[MattW]

I know, it's just rough, yanno? I just feel such a good connection with her, and I never find that with anyone. Like I said, I most likely won't actually do anything again, it's just hard not to think about when we still see each other so regularly.

 

Heck, I made it my goal today to try to avoid her as much as possible, and already within the first hour or two she's hanging around me, helping me out, and chitchatting.

[happpybear]

I know, it's just rough, yanno? I just feel such a good connection with her, and I never find that with anyone. Like I said, I most likely won't actually do anything again, it's just hard not to think about when we still see each other so regularly.

 

Heck, I made it my goal today to try to avoid her as much as possible, and already within the first hour or two she's hanging around me, helping me out, and chitchatting.

 

so tell her you need to back away from being friends with her. she knows you have feelings, so no awkward surprises there, just say "hey so i am still harboring some feelings for you, and since you are uninterested and not available to date me, i need to distance myself from you until i get over my feelings. i would appreciate it if you could respect that and keep a respectful distance from me too."

 

simple. if she cares about your feelings and isn't a drama queen then she will likely understand and be cool with it.

[blueidealist24]

so tell her you need to back away from being friends with her. she knows you have feelings, so no awkward surprises there, just say "hey so i am still harboring some feelings for you, and since you are uninterested and not available to date me, i need to distance myself from you until i get over my feelings. i would appreciate it if you could respect that and keep a respectful distance from me too."

 

simple. if she cares about your feelings and isn't a drama queen then she will likely understand and be cool with it.

 

I'm not sure if he should do that. Then they won't even be friends.. and she's supposed to be coming to his birthday party, which I think is soon.

[MattW]

Yeah, she's coming out for my birthday, so I'd like to at least enjoy her company for that. Besides, I feel like it'd be too random to say that to her now. It's already been a couple months since I asked her out, and we've been good together since, so if I say that now, it might seem pretty random and out there.

[Angler]

She's not into you, but I say go for it.

 

By some fluke she could have had a change of heart, or more likely, you will get more practice being rejected.

 

Gaining indifference to rejection is a good thing, because it's a numbers game. You have to swing, and strike out, a lot of times before you hit a home run.

[MattW]

Honestly, I can't seem to get "unstuck" from the idea that she was willing to give that other guy a chance a while back, but not me. I just can't stop wondering why he was worth taking a shot with, and I wasn't. I mean, I'm not full of myself when I say this, but I'm a pretty cool guy, and she and I seem to be such a good match. Don't read this the wrong way, I'm not mad or upset at her, I just... don't get it. Makes me kinda feel hurt.

[Angler]

Honestly, I can't seem to get "unstuck" from the idea that she was willing to give that other guy a chance a while back, but not me. I just can't stop wondering why he was worth taking a shot with, and I wasn't. I mean, I'm not full of myself when I say this, but I'm a pretty cool guy, and she and I seem to be such a good match. Don't read this the wrong way, I'm not mad or upset at her, I just... don't get it. Makes me kinda feel hurt.

 

If I had to take a very rough stab at it, I'd say he was exciting, and a challenge and you were (comparably) boring and easy.

 

I used to do the same thing - think "why him but not me". Get off of that thought and go try with another girl...best thing you can do.

[MattW]

Well, that's part of the problem, I don't "fall for" girls very often. Last time there was a girl I wanted to pursue was almost five years ago. So, there are no other girls I want to give it a shot with, and provably won't be again for some time.

 

I ... suppose there are aspects of me that are "easy" and "boring", but I still feel like I "challenge" and "excite" her in ways, too. She's always sort of implied to me that she considers me an intellectual equal, which has always amused me because her and I both seem to look for that and be drawn to that.

[camus154]

Well, that's part of the problem, I don't "fall for" girls very often. Last time there was a girl I wanted to pursue was almost five years ago. So, there are no other girls I want to give it a shot with, and provably won't be again for some time.

 

Well, now you're back full circle, aren't you, OP?

 

Dude, you have GOT to get off this ride. It's a type of vanity to suppose that you're so unique and different that only a similarly unique and different woman will be able to catch your interest....you're using this type of cyclic thinking to rationalize why you need to stay "stuck" on this one particular gal, even when history advises you otherwise. Meanwhile, tons of viable women are out there passing you by every day.

 

I don't mean to insult you in any way--I'm sure you're a good guy with a good head on your shoulders--but sometimes our insecurities are actually coming from a backwards sort of arrogance. This is what I mean when I keep saying to stop taking yourself so seriously. Why don't you start looking at ways you can get out there and interact with many women instead of planning the next leap year in which the "perfect" one will come into your life

[MattW]

It's a type of vanity to suppose that you're so unique and different that only a similarly unique and different woman will be able to catch your interest....you're using this type of cyclic thinking to rationalize why you need to stay "stuck" on this one particular gal, even when history advises you otherwise. Meanwhile, tons of viable women are out there passing you by every day.

 

I don't see it as "vanity", to be honest. I'm not proclaiming myself to be this super special one-of-a-kind guy that needs a similarly super special one-of-a-kind lady to be happy. All I'm saying is that it's very rare for me to develop a personal attraction to a girl. I just don't seem to "click" with the vast majority of them in that way. I don't have this big huge list of "must have" traits, or anything like that, that I'm going around hunting for. I just get along with different people in different ways, and I almost never meet girls that I "get along" with in a way that makes me feel attracted to them.

 

Why don't you start looking at ways you can get out there and interact with many women instead of planning the next leap year in which the "perfect" one will come into your life

 

I'm not so sure the "numbers" thing is really an issue, though. Over the last eight or so years (since I was 16, the general age people start dating), I've met and known plenty of girls, and I just haven't connected in that way with many of them at all. I've been friends with plenty of girls, but I never felt like they would make good "romantic" partners for me (and, of course, they didn't see me that way, so it was mutual friendship). So, it's not like I've only met and known, like, ten girls over the course of the last several years. There have been plenty over this period of time.

[camus154]

I don't see it as "vanity", to be honest. I'm not proclaiming myself to be this super special one-of-a-kind guy that needs a similarly super special one-of-a-kind lady to be happy. All I'm saying is that it's very rare for me to develop a personal attraction to a girl. I just don't seem to "click" with the vast majority of them in that way. I don't have this big huge list of "must have" traits, or anything like that, that I'm going around hunting for. I just get along with different people in different ways, and I almost never meet girls that I "get along" with in a way that makes me feel attracted to them.

 

Vanity may not be the right way of putting it. I'm not trying to say that you're an arrogant person, just that sometimes in adopting the mentality that we're so far removed from everyone else, we're actually following a self-absorbed path.

 

This certainly may not be the case with you, but from your posts here it does seem like you spend a lot of time reflecting on how different you are from everyone else, and how exceptional it is for you to click with someone. Even if you don't have an unrealistic laundry list of traits your ideal partner needs to have, the fact remains so few people seem to make the cut with you. I don't know why that is, so I'm just encouraging you to examine that a bit. It might be that you isolate yourself from everyone else--romantic relationships put aside--so that if you addressed that, you might also wind up addressing the romantic aspect.

 

Just my 2 cents, I'm certainly not a psychologist

[CeeLambrini]

And first impressions can be quite deceiving as well... biggest lesson I've learnt is that the people you do actually "click" with are sometimes who you'd least expect

[MattW]

And first impressions can be quite deceiving as well... biggest lesson I've learnt is that the people you do actually "click" with are sometimes who you'd least expect

 

I'm not overly concerned with "first impressions", though. Heck, I've never once wanted to date a girl based solely on first impressions. For the tiny handful of girls I have wanted to date, it was only after knowing them and spending time with them for a while before it occurred to me that I wanted to date them.

 

Also (and I'm not asking this seriously, just "venting"), how come that "person you'd least expect" advice can't apply to this girl, too? I mean, maybe she does have some preconceived notion of me, but why couldn't I be her "person she'd least expect"? Blah. Like I said, just venting, with this.