The Shy Story- Calling all Shy and/or "Nice" Guys!

[TehShyGuy85]

The man speaks truth. The more posts i read of yours the more inspired i get.

[NMF1978]

Do you care more about your success rate or finding the woman of your dreams who you want to spend the rest of your life with?

 

What you call success rate, I call ego.

 

You don't want to approach because it affects your success rate and you're afraid of reducing it. How is that any different from the @$$hole guy who snubs people because he feels he's better than them?

 

 

 

yes i care about my ego just like any sane human being i suppose and yes i hate being rejected, rejection isn't the end of the world but i'll try to avoid it if i can, i'm not against approchaing women but only do it when you're really attracted to her and there's a good chance of succes

[NMF1978]

The man speaks truth. The more posts i read of yours the more inspired i get.

 

most of what he says is PUA-stuff, imo you have to be pretty naive to get excited by all the cliché-stuff these guys say

[resilient7]

Yeah I just wanted to give her the compliment and thought she would say thank you and "that's all folks".I just figured a girl like her might have a BF and it wasn't me looking for a potential GF but trying out something I have only ever done once in my life before.So it didn't even cross my mind of wanting something back from her.Oh yeah,and the last thing on my mind was sex with her.

 

Trust me looks do not matter,I had no so pretty looking girls not find me attractive and than I had the hot looking one's find me attractive.it helps though having a nice face.Girl was around 21-26

[ClarenceRutherford]

most of what he says is PUA-stuff, imo you have to be pretty naive to get excited by all the cliché-stuff these guys say

NMF, most of us were never into the PUA stuff, but realized to get anywhere, we had to make some moves, just like in a job search.

 

So searching for a job while you're jobless, it's best to only apply to the (relatively few) jobs you're attracted to?

Or only the ones announced?

Don't expand your horizons and consider other opportunities?

 

It's up to you to make that move, to meet with someone at Co. XYZ and learn that co. is considering adding a new postion.

You could get an interview before they even advertise the opening !!!

 

Women are like many "hidden" or "non-advertised" jobs:

You gotta go out there and approach them, and pick-up on the signals they send.

Women aren't advertisin' their interest.

 

 

Can tell you're frustrated. Dating's a pain.

What we're advising is to help you.

[NMF1978]

NMF, most of us were never into the PUA stuff, but realized to get anywhere, we had to make some moves, just like in a job search.

 

So searching for a job while you're jobless, it's best to only apply to the (relatively few) jobs you're attracted to?

Or only the ones announced?

Don't expand your horizons and consider other opportunities?

 

It's up to you to make that move, to meet with someone at Co. XYZ and learn that co. is considering adding a new postion.

You could get an interview before they even advertise the opening !!!

 

Women are like many "hidden" or "non-advertised" jobs:

You gotta go out there and approach them, and pick-up on the signals they send.

Women aren't advertisin' their interest.

 

 

Can tell you're frustrated. Dating's a pain.

What we're advising is to help you.

 

 

well finding a job and finding someone to date/have a relationship with ain't the same thing, you have to have a job you don't have to date but still when i was unemployed i only looked for jobs that i would consider doing and had a shot at, everything else would be a waste of my time

 

following your logic to just approach dozens of women even women i might not be that attracted to is a waste of my time just like looking for a job i don't want to do or have no shot at

[ClarenceRutherford]

well finding a job and finding someone to date/have a relationship with ain't the same thing, you have to have a job you don't have to date but still when i was unemployed i only looked for jobs that i would consider doing and had a shot at, everything else would be a waste of my time

 

following your logic to just approach dozens of women even women i might not be that attracted to is a waste of my time just like looking for a job i don't want to do or have no shot at

Analogies aren't always perfect, if you wanna get technical MNF.

It's the end result we're talking about.

 

Would wager many people don't enjoy the dating game, though they may enjoy the steady gal/guy they date, so the analogy works in that way:

you have to do certain things to achieve results.

 

TBH, I didn't much enjoy dating girl after girl in my mid-late 20s. Didn't like getting stood-up at the restaurant we were supposed to meet for the first date, or if she showed, telling me she was leaving for the symphony within an hour or so...

Yes, that really happened. Should have told her that was "disrespectful" and got up and left her there...

Of course, that was at a Shoney's, so not like I invested a lot of dough in that date...

Maybe it would have looked bad me throwing a fit dunno.

 

Or waiting for this older college-age girl I dated at 25 to finish watching DALLAS (TV show) before I picked her up that Fri. night....

....or the many other nuisances a guy has to put up with...

 

when i was unemployed i only looked for jobs that i would consider doing and had a shot at, everything else would be a waste of my time

Good point. May not be prudent for a guy to chase the "hot girls" or ones he feels are out of his league.

Have always advised inexperienced guys to go for the "more attainable" women, the ones more like them, shy, the ones that may not be so popular but still possess average- to good-looking physical characteristics...

 

Vacation's recommendations are sound. He's not a player (he was once like we were, shy and unlucky at love) and not advocating PUA strategies.

The point is to break out of your shell and do more approaching so you meet more women and get closer to the love you desperately need.

[vacation]

most of what he says is PUA-stuff, imo you have to be pretty naive to get excited by all the cliché-stuff these guys say

 

What I say is through my life experience and my experience with women. I wasn't the best looking or buffest kid in my neighbourhood that attracted all the ladies. Quite the opposite so I embarked on this journey to attract, and understand the opposite sex. To my surprise I learned more about myself than I did about women and coincidentally those qualities ARE what attract women and have caused me to learn so much about them.

 

I've been rejected more than times than I can count but have also been fortunate to meet some amazing girl friends and also women to share my life with. I have nothing to prove to you or anybody else. So if you don't like the advice I give or what I say then don't take it and ask others on this forum. I really don't care. I get absolutely nothing out of trying to help people on this forum and am only doing it to help guys who like me, just had enough of being used and wanted to change.

 

One final thing. I have no problem with you coming into my threads and disagreeing with me and asking me all kinds of questions. The problem comes up when you go around telling other people they're naive for doing something to improve their lives - which is different from your views. Especially since you don't get any results and seem pretty sour about your own life that you're going to come knocking on mine. I addressed the PUA aspect of my posts in an earlier page. Scroll back a couple pgs & read it.

[vacation]

following your logic to just approach dozens of women even women i might not be that attracted to is a waste of my time just like looking for a job i don't want to do or have no shot at

 

Since my original post I've been telling people to approach women they are ATTRACTED to yet you keep eluding to the fact that you should just approach any women. C'mon man, pay attention.

[NMF1978]

/

Good point. May not be prudent for a guy to chase the "hot girls" or ones he feels are out of his league.

Have always advised inexperienced guys to go for the "more attainable" women, the ones more like them, shy, the ones that may not be so popular but still possess average- to good-looking physical characteristics...

 

 

thats not what i ment with "girls i had a shot at", what i ment was girls who give clear indications they might like you

 

plus shy and shy don't mix that well imo, i've always been intrested in women who wore a lot more outgoing then i am, with women like that i become more outgoing myself, with someone shy and quiet well nothing much happens

[vacation]

give me a description of a girl you think you have a "shot at"

 

I'm just curious.

[ClarenceRutherford]

thats not what i ment with "girls i had a shot at", what i ment was girls who give clear indications they might like you

That's a critical mistake you're making.

Many women won't give "clear indications" they're interested. Oftentimes, guys can't always read a woman's signals.

If you only pursued women who gave you signals, you're gonna limit yourself and not get that close to finding a real love.

 

Vacation is right:

if you a see a woman that interests you, start some conversation and if things go well and she seems receptive, steer the conversation into the two of you meeting the next weekend to talk more over dinner, during a visit to a community arts and crafts fair, a visit to a museum, ballgame or something "neutral" like coffee...etc.

 

That's what I did with a woman I "cold-called" at 27-28 at night grad school classes.

Saw her sitting in the chairs between classes. She was reading a book or something. Didn't pick up any signals. I don't think she noticed me on the other side of the hallway.

Just seemed attracted to her so I go and sit next to her.

 

Struck up conversation with her. Why was she there? What classes taking?

What she likes about the field she's in? etc.

 

Not an overly long conversation, but enough to generate some rapport.

As it seemed she felt comfortable with me, invited her to a weekend date.

That led to a 1.5 year relationship. This older woman dumped me later, but look what I got out of that, lots of kissing and other things.

 

In those days in the late 80s before the internet, hadn't read any PUA articles and I certainly wasn't a player.

In my late 20s, something in me told me I needed to be more forward so when I saw her sitting there.

it was like I was on the high diving board and realized I had to take the plunge....

 

 

In my late 20s, got tired of the ambivalence of women in their early 20s.

Something inside me told me I might do better with women a little older than me, as I thought many of them would be seeking what I wanted: a relationship. That woman in the night school was 5-6 yrs. older than me and most of the women I dated in my late 20s were a few years older. Ended up marrying a woman 4 yrs. older.

[NMF1978]

That's a critical mistake you're making.

Many women won't give "clear indications" they're interested. Oftentimes, guys can't always read a woman's signals.

If you only pursued women who gave you signals, you're gonna limit yourself and not get that close to finding a real love.

.

 

Real love? I don't know if i believe in that and so be it if i limit myself, i did approach some women when i was younger where i didn't have those clear indications and it never worked so i stopped doing that.

 

Anyway i'm not going to discuss it further as the basis of your advice comes from "men do the approaching and thats just the way it is" and i don't and can't agree with that because it just ain't fair. Someone on another forum said it better then i ever could:

Social expectations which require the man to do all the pursuing all the time are old fashioned at best and outright misandric at worst. Expecting a man to be the pursuer every single time isn't any less sexist than expecting every woman to be an obedient housewife.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Real love? I don't know if i believe in that and so be it if i limit myself, i did approach some women when i was younger where i didn't have those clear indications and it never worked so i stopped doing that.

 

Anyway i'm not going to discuss it further as the basis of your advice comes from "men do the approaching and thats just the way it is" and i don't and can't agree with that because it just ain't fair.

Sorry you feel that way.

Vacation and I are only trying to help. Like we said, we've been in your shoes.

 

At 32, as you get close to 40 and are still dateless, you may one day regret being so wedded to your views ("woman should approach") and look back and wish you'd tried some things.... like I've regreted not trying some things with opportunities I had with women.

Am talking about going farther in conversation, not necessarily sexual advances some made (yes, I turned some down, boy do I regret doing that).

You will have opportunities. It's a matter of what you do with those openings.

 

Recall advising you to date older women, who may be more interested in relationships.

One hazard of that is, well... they'll age faster.

That woman I dated in the cold-call. Looked her up recently on Facebook. She's gray haired and much older than me....

One regret I have is marrying in my 30s... Should've wised-up and got more serious about dating in my early 20s....

 

 

For the record:

was gonna bail on this thread a long time ago, but thought I could give you a diff. perspective.

It won't hurt you to approach women. The benefits would exceed the risks...

 

But this wasn't a total waste. Other guys may benefit from Vacation & my suggestions...

[TehShyGuy85]

I learned a lot from this thread. Opportunities come and go, i'm sure i have had opportunities without even realizing it LOL.

I have never had a girl "show interest" in me so therefore i would not show interest back because i figured why would i waste my time and pursue something that would never happen?

I tend to think this way because no girl has ever wanted to get to know me even when talking to them, we would just talk about random things or i would try to get to know them but they never seemed interested in getting to know me back which would cause me not to pursue anything further....

 

Even though i do tend to think this way i still talk to girls and act friendly/joke around/tease them because you cannot just sit around and hope for someone to come along and "Show Interest". Being nice, friendly and funny is part of who i am and i don't care what girls think of me and never have, it's part of my personality and who i am.

 

Actually i have passed up a opportunity recently. A girl at my work i heard likes me but i feel no attraction and she has a kid so those two things are a major Deal Breaker. I was actually kind of frustrated b/c it was the first time i heard anyone has ever liked me and it had to be someone i would have no interest in......Go Figure......

[ClarenceRutherford]

I learned a lot from this thread. Opportunities come and go, i'm sure i have had opportunities without even realizing it LOL.

I have never had a girl "show interest" in me so therefore i would not show interest back because i figured why would i waste my time and pursue something that would never happen?

I tend to think this way because no girl has ever wanted to get to know me even when talking to them, we would just talk about random things or i would try to get to know them but they never seemed interested in getting to know me back which would cause me not to pursue anything further....

That's not great and I feel for you, TehShyGuy.

Was a lot like you... there were opportunities I clearly missed in college and in my mid-20s

.

Dated and was in relationships in my late 20s, but the only way I seemed to get away from being single came after a blind date set up by my future wife's best friend. Though that first double date didn't seem to go so well, the other dates I had with her went much better and everything seemed to click.

Was comfortable with myself, expressed a sense of humor, listened to her, didn't get too worried that this was "the one" (tried to just enjoy the time I had with her, not worry about the inevitible breakup) and it seemed to go well.

 

Even though i do tend to think this way i still talk to girls and act friendly/joke around/tease them because you cannot just sit around and hope for someone to come along and "Show Interest".

That's a key point. You have to approach at least in some way.

Being nice, friendly and funny is part of who i am and i don't care what girls think of me and never have, it's part of my personality and who i am.

That's a good attitude.

Actually i have passed up a opportunity recently. A girl at my work i heard likes me but i feel no attraction and she has a kid so those two things are a major Deal Breaker. I was actually kind of frustrated b/c it was the first time i heard anyone has ever liked me and it had to be someone i would have no interest in......Go Figure......

Assuming she's a never-married mother?

 

Even if she was divorced, many single guys in their 20s wouldn't want to date someone with a child and become an "instant family" that way.

Don't blame you there.

If you're not comfortable with that kind of thing, best to move on.

(Not sayin' single parents have less worth).

 

Did date a couple of divorced women, but neither had kids.

Dated a single mother who had an infant, assumed she wasn't married. Never got to hear the story about her as she didn't accept a second or third date. Probably for the best. The dates with the divorced women went okay. If they had kids, I might have been okay with that but like you, that wasn't something I really wanted.

 

Just make sure your dealbreaker list is relatively short:

no smokers, drug/alcohol abuse, kids, etc.

As you get into your 40s, the no-kids prohibition becomes less practical....

[AdviceWanted]

Hi Vacation and ClarenceRutherford,

 

Your posts on this thread are inspiring! 1) I am glad you were able to overcome your shortcomings when younger and it gives hope to others than it can be done. 2) Your posts on this thread have to be commended - all very well written, and none of it for personal gain. All I can say is that your contributions are really appreciated by me.

 

Maybe I can ask some advice. I would really like to improve my social circle, in particular meet some new girls and try to get that elusive first relationship. But I don't really know how! I believe in getting back up everytime you get knocked down but you know, when something isn't working, you have to change. But I don't know what to change. For example, I went to a nightclub last night kinda focused on going to talk to some new people - inspired by the words in this thread. But for like the gazillionth time, it was an epic fail. Maybe it's my vibes - I don't know - I found it hard to keep the conversation going and found it near impossible to engineer a way to ask for a number etc. Obviously this isn't the first time this has happened.

 

So what do I do? Do I keep going to nightclubs even though my success rate is terrible / I struggle to enjoy it - get in the pulling grove? Where else can I go to meet new girls?

 

Two things that I probably require are direction and encouragment, and a starting point. Have you guys any advice for me that might make it easier and improve my success rate?

[corvidae]

Hi, I'm 32 and I've never had a girlfriend...I'm pretty outgoing and not at all shy, in fact I have a number of female friends and can make friends with women quite easily. I never approach strangers, at least I haven't yet. Recently I thought I did need to change my approach, so when at teh Edinburgh comedy festival I approached random women and just struck up conversations about shows - I was nervous, but I did it, I didn't go for numbers or anything, just chatting...trying to get used to cold approaching. Now I'm back in London I haven't done any cold approaching, but I know that I do have to change or I am going to stay single my whole life. It's so tough though...and I really hate being rejected.

[vacation]

I learned a lot from this thread. Opportunities come and go, i'm sure i have had opportunities without even realizing it LOL.

I have never had a girl "show interest" in me so therefore i would not show interest back because i figured why would i waste my time and pursue something that would never happen?

First, let me start by saying I'm sure girls have shown interest in you but you just didn't know it. Women are very subtle. As you get better you learn to pick up on these vibes and queues. Infact they're soo easy that your brain tells you the exact opposite to psych you out of it. How many times do you see a girl that might glance at you a couple times and you catch her doing it? Your brain will tell you "omg, that girl caught me checking her out" when really it's the other way around.

 

Even though i do tend to think this way i still talk to girls and act friendly/joke around/tease them because you cannot just sit around and hope for someone to come along and "Show Interest". Being nice, friendly and funny is part of who i am and i don't care what girls think of me and never have, it's part of my personality and who i am.

 

That is the right attitude. Game isn't about changing who you are but actually getting to know who you are. Being a joker and acting friendly is definitely the way to go and get mobs of people to like you. Now you just have to focus that same energy on getting the girl you like to reciprocate. So show this same outgoing personality to the girl you like and single her out.

 

Regarding your specific criteria. Make it as specific or loose as you want. This is YOUR LIFE...not mine, not clarence rutherfords or anybody else's. got it?

 

 

Maybe I can ask some advice. I would really like to improve my social circle, in particular meet some new girls and try to get that elusive first relationship?

How old are you? This gives me an indication of where to steer and what to say. There is a difference when you're dealing with a 30yr old woman vs. a 22 yr old.

[vacation]

Hi, I'm 32 and I've never had a girlfriend...I'm pretty outgoing and not at all shy, in fact I have a number of female friends and can make friends with women quite easily. I never approach strangers, at least I haven't yet. Recently I thought I did need to change my approach, so when at teh Edinburgh comedy festival I approached random women and just struck up conversations about shows - I was nervous, but I did it, I didn't go for numbers or anything, just chatting...trying to get used to cold approaching. Now I'm back in London I haven't done any cold approaching, but I know that I do have to change or I am going to stay single my whole life. It's so tough though...and I really hate being rejected.

 

First off. Congrats on making the approaches and going out of your comfort zone. When you keep challenging yourself you are only moving forward and improving. From that point onwards its only a matter of time my friend.

 

Now, you still need to ask for numbers. Get into that habit. There's ways of asking for it too and I'll explain how. It's all about your interaction with her and making her feel comfortable.

 

1. Build a connection

 

During your interaction with her you should be pushing to find a connection (not similarity) between the two of you. This connection starts off as a similarity (eg. both enjoying the outdoors) but needs to become deeper.

 

2. Deeper, what? how?

 

Yes. You need her to feel the similarity to turn it into a connection. And how you do that is by relaying her point right back to her but asking her how it felt.

 

Her I love spending time with my family.

Me Really? Cuz my brothers drive me nuts. What is it about family that you love so much?

Her They're always there for me. [and will continue to name other instances of her family being supportive while recalling all the positive memories of her family]

Me *probe more information about some of those positive family events and make her relive them

 

(true story, happened last week. I told her I really like the family qualities about her and find it very sexy that she cares about the people she loves. That was my way of telling her that I want her. I asked for her number for coffee and gave her my phone.)

 

Notice that I didn't say "I LIKE MY FAMILY TOO" like 90% of other guys would've to add as yet another similarity and then move onto another topic. I was honest about my opinion and probed more about hers. My goal was to find qualities about her that she valued. Her loving to spend time with her family shows that she's loyal, supportive, loving, caring etc. And I wanted her to feel that about herself so I probed that subject of family. We ended up talking 20minutes just about family alone.

 

Grabbing her number after she's revealed her cherished memories is as simple as handing her your phone with a big grin and saying you want to get to know her more.

 

Many guys just say "hey let's hang out sometime" which is too vague. I'll explain why.

 

Now realize that asking her to "hang out sometime" which is very ambiguous. It doesn't mean much and to a girl listening to that the only response she can give you is "yes" or "sure". Now you can't expect her to take the initiative and plan a date so start your planning and be prepared for the next time you see her.

 

Instead ask her out to something real. No more using words like "hang out" or "sometime" which have no meanings.

 

Plan something - a date, and propose that to her in a harmless way.

 

So instead of let's "hang out" say;

 

• "Hey I got two tickets to the basketball game tonight and it's suppose to be the best game of the year. Wanna be my cheering buddy?"
  
• "Hey, there's a really traditional Indian restaurant down the street I wanna check out. You'll like it - it's got really spicy food"
  
• "Look, you seem like a really [fun/traditional/caring/friendly/down to earth/] down to earth girl. How about coffee next week?"
  

 

Make your own options but see the difference between "hanging out" and that? Hanging out is something friends do and although it'll make her comfortable it's too soft. Be bold so she knows what you're asking and you know what her true answer is.

 

Instead of "sometime" propose a specific time frame.

 

• This week
  
• Friday
  
• On the weknd
  
• Early Next week
  
• etc etc
  

 

For planning dates here's some tips guys:

 

• Find out what kind of a girl she is, active, passive, etc...basically don't take a girl that hates outdoors rockclimbing.
  
• Keep it in a public place
  
• Stay away from fancy dinners (wayy too much pressure for first dates). Casual dinner to compliment your evening is fine - just don't make dinner the sole purpose of your date.
  
• Keep your clothes on (no swimming, hot tub etc...)
  
• Try to go for a walk...park the car far away or better yet, take a bus or cab!
  
• Enjoy yourself. She will enjoy herself when she sees you enjoying yourself.
  
• Let her do the talking so ask questions about her life & passions. The less you talk the better!
  

[ClarenceRutherford]

Hi Vacation and ClarenceRutherford,

 

Your posts on this thread are inspiring! 1) I am glad you were able to overcome your shortcomings when younger and it gives hope to others than it can be done. 2) Your posts on this thread have to be commended - all very well written, and none of it for personal gain. All I can say is that your contributions are really appreciated by me.

Thanks for the kind words. The advice given here is to help others, not sell some program or advocate PUA techniques.

My life's an open book here.

 

Maybe I can ask some advice. I would really like to improve my social circle, in particular meet some new girls and try to get that elusive first relationship. But I don't really know how! I believe in getting back up everytime you get knocked down but you know, when something isn't working, you have to change. But I don't know what to change. For example, I went to a nightclub last night kinda focused on going to talk to some new people - inspired by the words in this thread. But for like the gazillionth time, it was an epic fail. Maybe it's my vibes - I don't know - I found it hard to keep the conversation going and found it near impossible to engineer a way to ask for a number etc. Obviously this isn't the first time this has happened.

 

So what do I do?

Do I keep going to nightclubs even though my success rate is terrible / I struggle to enjoy it - get in the pulling grove?

 

Where else can I go to meet new girls?

I'd advise against the bar scene, unless you're into that.

It sounds like you don't enjoy it that much.

I tried a bar for a short while, as a woman I was interested in hung out there. However, the smoke burned my eyes and as I don't drink, decided it wasn't for me.

 

Take a look at this thread.

Help for those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

 

It might give you some ideas on where to meet women.

 

In short, try church singles groups, other singles groups, clubs, activities (bowling league etc.), and start going to places where you might meet women.

 

Don't know your age, but if you're in college, that's a great place to meet women, with all the clubs and groups there.

Outside of college, once you get into your cubicle world and live in an apt., it's much more difficult.

 

If you're into bicycling, get involved in a bicycling group. Or a ski group, the type that goes on ski trips.

Or the gardening club. Sports group. League sports. Film fans, etc.

 

The singles group route seems like the easiest.

At 25-26, I phoned the different churches in the town of 100,000 I lived in during the late 80s and asked if they had singles programs. They were hard to find back then.

That's where I met this shy 30 y.o. virgin I've posted on.

 

You may not believe everything a particular church espouses, but it won't hurt you to go and you'll likely meet more people there. Plus, the women you meet there may match your lifestyle more than the ones you'd meet at a bar.

 

Hint the larger churches in a particular city, the major and mainstream denominations, such as Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, etc., are more likely to have singles groups.

 

Two things that I probably require are direction and encouragment, and a starting point.

 

Have you guys any advice for me that might make it easier and improve my success rate?

We can help you on the encouragement part.

 

Methinks some of the things me and some other posters addressed in the thread I linked may help you.

May add more later, but this should be a starting point.

[AdviceWanted]

Hi Clarence / Vacation,

 

I am 21 right now - 22 in October. I finished college recently and in hindsight, I never made the most of the opportunities available there. At times I tried - of course - but the combination of little success and actual college work meant I kind of ignored these opportunities.

 

There aren't a huge amount of clubs and societies where I'm from - at least not that I'm aware of. I guess if I tried I might find some but it's the start of the process that's always the hardest. I have tried to change before and haven't met with success but all I can do is try to get up everytime I get knocked down, etc. However, I would like some signs or signals that I'm doing something right!

 

Also I struggle to keep a conversation going too many times. I don't know if it's me - not focusing on what other people are saying (due to lack of interest) or if I struggle for ideas. Maybe a bit of both! I know I am interesting if people get to know me but very few ever stay around that long. Of course, all my experiences take place in nightclubs which probably isn't a good setting for the type of person I am too.

[Bluesman89]

This is surely going to be culture dependent.

 

I'm pretty certain that in my country cold approaches and the like are not common practice. It's either bars or meeting women through friends.

 

That said I have done the above once before and although I wasn't outright brushed off or rejected, it came to nothing. I have atrocious social skills though (more so then).

[ClarenceRutherford]

Hi Clarence / Vacation,

 

I am 21 right now - 22 in October. I finished college recently and in hindsight, I never made the most of the opportunities available there. At times I tried - of course - but the combination of little success and actual college work meant I kind of ignored these opportunities.

22 is not really very old, so that's one positive. You have plenty of time.

Though many of us dated (or tried to) in college, lots of us guys didn't awaken and get serious about dating until our mid-20s, me at 25-26....

You're not at that age where many guys begin to panic -- late 20s/early 30s.

There aren't a huge amount of clubs and societies where I'm from - at least not that I'm aware of. I guess if I tried I might find some but it's the start of the process that's always the hardest.

Clubs and groups - like church singles groups - can be hit-and-miss.

At 30, I found a church-related singles group. Unfortunately, the women in that group (this was another city from the one mentioned earlier) were close to 40 or 40+ and divorced, so I didn't really relate to them.

I have tried to change before and haven't met with success but all I can do is try to get up everytime I get knocked down, etc.

That's the attitude. So one door closes, try another door.

One place you interview for a job says no, try another company.

 

You have to have confidence not only in yourself and your abilities (in dating AND job interviewing) but be strong enough to not let rejection tear you apart.

 

Lemme warn you -- once you get into a real relationship, as I did at 25-26, and she dumps you after 6 mos., it can tear you apart. Have read many guys like us who didn't really get that real dating relationship until our mid-20s. Then she changes her mind and says she doesn't want to see you anymore. That devastated me. Called in sick the next Monday and felt my world was coming apart.

 

So gotta have some maturity and not let that kind of rejection tear you up. Just read some of the posts here such as "My fiance left me out of the blue" by GreenPolicy.

However, I would like some signs or signals that I'm doing something right!

 

Vacation is good at that kind of advice.

Just keep asking women out for dates wherever you meet them. If you're attracted to a woman, ask her out there, but after some conversation so you can judge the signals. If she's difficult to talk to and doesn't say much or doesn't respond favorably to your conversation, that could be a sign she's not interested.

 

Of course, all my experiences take place in nightclubs which probably isn't a good setting for the type of person I am too.

That's prob. not a good place for a newbie.

Many of those women are highly experienced and can sense inexperience.

 

Also I struggle to keep a conversation going too many times.

I don't know if it's me - not focusing on what other people are saying (due to lack of interest) or if I struggle for ideas. Maybe a bit of both!

 

I know I am interesting if people get to know me but very few ever stay around that long.

You need to learn conversation skills.

A good book on what to say to almost anyone is How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. If you're not good at starting conversation, that book should help.

I wasn't very confident nor conversational in my 20s either.

 

It's not a book on dating, but can give you ideas on how to start and keep conversation going.

link removed

 

Buy the book (do a search) or download it for free from the link above.

 

In talking with women, try to focus on them. Don't let thoughts of what to say next fill your mind, and don't think only of what you want to say while she's talking. Listen intently to what women say.

 

If she says she likes rock climbing or visiting museums or overseas travel (or any other acivity), say you are active in that too or if you don't know much about it, don't lie. Say you'd never really done that and would like to know more.

 

Steer the conversation towards doing something with her. Get ideas by what she tells you.

 

Then say, "I'd like you to join me in a visit to such museum exhibit this weekend...." or something similar.

 

That thread I linked to earlier might help too in conversation. Same with the cold-call I described in this thread doing to a woman I met at 28.... just struck-up conversation with this woman. Why she was there, why she's interested in that field of study, etc. It led to me asking her out to a dinner date or some activity.

 

Good luck.

[ClarenceRutherford]

On the Dale Carnegie book, take a look at this shy dating guy's review.

 

 

I'm not a naturally social person either, but the last few years I've appeared to be social on the outside. The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie really helped me. I read it a few years ago and I realized there are some simple things I wasn't doing that really helped. It wasn't like an awakening or anything but was useful nonetheless. I think the thing I realized is that it's not that I'm not capable of being outgoing and social, rather I'm often too lazy and content to try to be. It takes effort ultimately.