My Turn :)

[SethSLC]

So sometimes I seem to give good advice here for others, yet can't seem to either follow it or give it for myself. So I figure it's my turn to use these forums as sounding boards...

 

I started hanging out with my ex earlier this year (Feb) and stuff, for the most part casually dating since then (2-3x) per week outside of work, and seeing each other M-F at work with 2 small breaks since Feb of about 2 weeks each where she seemed to get over whelmed with it all and "ran".

 

Anyways another one of those breaks happened 2 weeks ago and I find myself trying to puzzle through it all and understand things from her point of view and mine at the same time. I do my damnedest to ignore her at work though it's difficult to say the least, unless she is speaking to me, and I'm trying as hard as I can to give her the "space" she asked for and so far succeeding.

 

It isn't that I think I won't find anyone else, heck I know I would and will if it comes to it, cause I'm a super catch in all area's. It's that after being with her for so long, and so closely over 6 years I know in my heart of hearts she's the one I would prefer to grow old with. I guess I'm just confused.. On the one hand it's one thing if she is just trying to get rid of me while keeping her guilt at a minimum, or if what she said was true and she really does just want time to figure things out. If I believed that's all it was I think I'd be perfectly fine give her all the time she needed, but the truth is I can't convince myself of it. Here is the main part of our last conversation 2 weeks ago during the end of summer semester when she was having a breakdown from classes and projects being due. She has 1 more semester to finish her Undergrad Engineering degree before taking spring, summer off and then starting grad school here next fall.

 

(Sorry for the wall of text, I left out a lot, but left in what I think might be relative for anyone offering perspective on whether or not she was telling the truth or just trying to get rid of me gently)

[Richard-]

i was in a similar situation with an ex, and I know what you mean about thinking she's trying to let you off gently. What I figured out eventually is that she wasn't trying to let me off gently, but rather that she was prioritizing her life and I wasn't the main prospect in it anymore. I was still in the top 10, but my spot just dropped. It sounds like she loves you and has feelings for you, but there's no guarantee she'll ever turn the corner in a reasonable amount of time. I guess it's up to you if you want to wait, or try to find a person who's more ready for you.

[SethSLC]

i was in a similar situation with an ex, and I know what you mean about thinking she's trying to let you off gently. What I figured out eventually is that she wasn't trying to let me off gently, but rather that she was prioritizing her life and I wasn't the main prospect in it anymore. I was still in the top 10, but my spot just dropped. It sounds like she loves you and has feelings for you, but there's no guarantee she'll ever turn the corner in a reasonable amount of time. I guess it's up to you if you want to wait, or try to find a person who's more ready for you.

 

It's tough that's for sure. I'm not saying by any means that I wouldn't / haven't taken other girls out while we were apart, and while I think I'd "wait" for her, I wouldn't say no to exploring other avenues if they present themselves I just wouldn't go actively looking for them, no time really between work / school anyways.

[Richard-]

Yeah, it's really up to you. As long as it's not for the wrong reason, like you've already invested so much time into her that you're afraid it will have been a waste or something.

[charity]

seth, she sounds confused and like she really cares and respects you but...... there is nothing you can do but accept what she says. when you read it its so clear. she is saying that she cannot have a relationship with you, she cannot commit fully to you and she feels conflicted. she does not tell you yes when you ask her if she loves you. i would let her go. move on with your life. you have done the best you can and now she needs to sort her own feelings out. it sounds to me like she is trying to break up but is finding it so hard because she is still not sure whether its what she wants or not. two people have to be ina relationship. you shouldn't have to convince her to be with you. if she's saying that she feels she is only giving you 'half ass' that is because ...she is. you may not feel it but she knows she isn't feeling what she should be. sorry seth.

[WeightOffChest]

She's young, just like my ex. She may want to be with you in the long run, but she can't pigeonhole herself into that just yet. It's pretty limiting when the whole world is available to you just over the horizon, but there's someone that will influence that decision. It's hard for young people like us to compromise our freedom with the comfort of a relationship. So, just like myself and my ex, the youth leaves all these possibilities open, and a relationship only closes doors.

 

You say you're not sure whether or not she's just trying to minimize her guilt or if she genuinely wants to work on herself to be with you. I can tell you that she's not sure either. For her, she's looking at the whole thing, not just as a relationship, but as part of the rest of her life. When you're 22-23, it's tricky committing one way or another. She doesn't know how she feels. I guess you can't blame her for it.

 

Based on all of that, you won't be able to convince her one way or another. She cares for you, but it's going to be tough to convince her to get into a relationship with you. The best thing is to make her chase you a little. While you're a nice guy and you think that giving her some security will bring her around, you are going to need to offer her more than being a safe bet. Right now, the world is her oyster, where she can finish college, start a career, experience and do exciting things that she's never done before. You can tell by your mindset that you're willing to "wait" for her, she doesn't feel that you're compatible with that excitement and freedom. I broke up with my ex with that kind of mindset. While that wasn't the main reason I broke it off, I felt a little bit limited at the time even though she said she'd be with me and let me enjoy my youth. We often had talks about me, as a young man, going out to have the fun of my youth. As long as I wasn't being shady or brought any STDs back, she gladly without any delusion said that she didn't want to hold me back, and she lovingly offered to let me do whatever I wanted. It may be the ideal fantasy, but I don't think I could have met new girls and sowed my oats with a wifey at home that would allow me to do that. She wanted to give me a hall pass, but it still was limiting. Let her think you can show her the world, that being with you and being free doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

Seth, you've always had a positive attitude when giving advice on these boards, so it only makes sense that you carry that with you when you deal with her. So, you may be a sweet guy, but chicks dig assholes. You know she already likes you. You just have to be a bit of an * * * * * * * , and she'll come around.

 

As a guy trying reconciliation myself, I wish you the best of luck. You can totally do it if you play your cards right.

[SethSLC]

Sound words. No you can't convince anyone to choose to be with you, nor should you have to. Not sure she is breaking up with me since, although we dated and were hanging out fairly often, we never really got "back together" quote unquote. Though in the end that is probably semantics as it must feel like a breakup to her in some respects. The not being able to say yes to the Love part didn't escape my notice.

 

Nothing to do except give her the best space I can I guess. In time maybe she'll work through her demons and either choose to be with me or choose someone / something else that makes her happy.

[SethSLC]

good stuff..

 

Seth, you've always had a positive attitude when giving advice on these boards, so it only makes sense that you carry that with you when you deal with her. So, you may be a sweet guy, but chicks dig assholes. You know she already likes you. You just have to be a bit of an * * * * * * * , and she'll come around.

 

As a guy trying reconciliation myself, I wish you the best of luck. You can totally do it if you play your cards right.

 

I like what you're saying. A lot of it has a feel and ring of truth as to the whole situation. Can you be more descriptive of the a-hole personality? Be a jerk to her at work if she talks to me? Or just start sleeping around with all the bar-stars (word will get around...somehow recently she said she was really jealous of me and hated feeling like that though I kept all my goings ons quiet I had thought..)?

[endy]

Honestly man... Followed the whole story... It's time for you to show her you're not there anymore. Time to jump ship to me. I can say that because granted I don't know her or you personally. IF I was you and in that situation I don't know if thats what I would do at this moment, but it would be crossing my mind. She's making the decision on the relationship, and you've let her. I know you don't really have a choice and a man that can't make a decision is well that much less of a man in that situation. You know I'm all about the alpha male crap...

 

Kinda sensed some neediness from reading it. Just being honest with you. I don't think this has anything to do with you. It has everything to do with her, and her getting to know herself better. From the outside looking in, I would walk, and walk a long way for a long time. I don't think you need to be an ahole... I think you need to be more masculine/leading/being in control of the situation. Basically I think you've been showing her this whole time that you're always going to be there right? Time to say, ok this is done for good. I'm closing the door for now, and that's YOUR decision. Who the hell is she to sit there and make you wait? Answer that question honestly for yourself.

[SethSLC]

Exactly. And for my entire life up until this girl, I've never had an issue with that mindset. Once done, I was out. Peace. Gone. I have no idea if it's having to see her daily, if the fact that she became friends with all my friends so even my social circle has her in it now, or what, but I can't figure out how to recapture that "I'm gone. You think I'm not good enough? Well forget you" mindset and it's driving me up the wall.

[endy]

Exactly. And for my entire life up until this girl, I've never had an issue with that mindset. Once done, I was out. Peace. Gone. I have no idea if it's having to see her daily, if the fact that she became friends with all my friends so even my social circle has her in it now, or what, but I can't figure out how to recapture that "I'm gone. You think I'm not good enough? Well forget you" mindset and it's driving me up the wall.

 

I think for your health and well being, it's time. Also, I think if there isn't more time, and time for her to grow and change, get to where she feels she needs to be... No chance. I think you agree. Just gotta let go and close the door. Hell man change jobs if you need to. Do something you love doing, unless you love what you do now.

[SethSLC]

I think for your health and well being, it's time. Also, I think if there isn't more time, and time for her to grow and change, get to where she feels she needs to be... No chance. I think you agree. Just gotta let go and close the door. Hell man change jobs if you need to. Do something you love doing, unless you love what you do now.

 

Trying to get that door shut. As for time, well last fall when we split all I wanted was for her to hurry up, graduate, and move away which was her goal. One thing led to another and she stuck around. I had hopes that you know maybe she would move on anyways recently but when she came to watch my dog for a weekend while I left town (after this most recent "split") as a favor that she had planned on for a while she made a big point of telling me how she got accepted to grad school here of all places so will be sticking around for a few more years... oh boy...

 

Ya I can't really quit yet, not until sometime next year at the earliest if I get into grad school and would have to quit my full time job anyways. Right now we both have to work here for the tuition reduction and the $$.

[crushedlikefruit]

Hi Seth,

 

First thing I'd like to say is that I don't actually think our situation are as similar as I first thought - your girl is clearly a better communicator than mine is, even though you may not think this.

 

Reading your conversation, I can see that you've been working on validating, empathy etc. Inviting her to share etc. Ironically, in your case I don't think that this is the best route and will just end up wearing you out emotionally. If I'm completely honest, it does make you look slightly too needy and completely focused on her. As other people have noticed, I think you need to take the focus away from her and walk away so to speak. You've done the 'understanding, listening' part, no you need to man up and show her that you've got the balls to walk away and live YOUR life.

 

Funny how it's easy to give this advise, easy to see perspective through someone else's situation, yet infinitely harder to do when your own emotions are invested! This shows signs of the classic push-pull bro.... pull away a bit. Our situations are similar is that is it us MEN that are doing all of the work, investing all of our efforts. In a messed up way, the more we try and the more we invest, the easier is it for them to walk away. They think that we will always be there, therefore they feel safe walking away. Getting the balance between taking away their comfort blanket and showing that you care is tough though. At the same time, you need to demonstrate consistency, so as not to appear emotionally unstable! Man, this sh1t is complex! Paradoxically, taking away the complexity and making things simple is probably the best chance we've got. At the moment, we represent complex, messy situations that they're running away from as they feel uncomfortable dealing with them. 'The one that cares the least has the most power in the relationship'... Bro, fake it 'til you make it. Tell yourself that you don't care. Tell yourself that you'll find someone better... Even if it isn't REAL, one day it will be, and that is when she'll come back.

 

The window of opportunity for reconciliation is going to be small. It will have to be subconsciously timed perfectly. You will have to have moved on enough to not care, but still care enough to want to entertain the idea of getting back together. The positive in all of this is that if you do move and meet someone else and she comes back... If you don't want her back at this, you'll be happier because you found someone better / more suited to you, if you do want her back you'll know that it was the REAL thing.

 

Good luck bro, I'm in the same boat as you are and we'll make it through this together. PM me if you fancy swapping skype/emails to chat more.

[Thorshammer]

Similar situation to mines. At this point I have pretty much given up, because either I am starting to see the issues, or either because I am realizing that being single isnt really that bad.

 

My advice, well not from me but from many people that I have read and listened to, is to go no-contact. If you go out with her on these friendly-meet ups, then how is she going to miss you? How is she going to realize the mistake she did, or question if she made the best choice if you are still around? Dont mistake being "there" as keeping you in her mind, it doesnt, it being there for her to use you as a source of comfort to stick by her decision safely, since she never really lost you, can talk about her decision with you, and still go home and wonder what new life away from a relationship can do for her. You are her coach in the matter, she dumped you and by being there you show you are ok with the situation (as she will rationalize it this way) and that you will always be there (which is fine if you dont mean being a friend).

 

Go no-contact and accept the break up. This will stick it in her head that you are gone, and you are not part of her life anymore. She needs to wake up and realize that life is different, and she can not have her cake and eat it too. Its only missing the person when they leave that you want them back, what she is doing is desentizing both of your feelings and transfering it into a friendly vibe (but the dumpee hurts more as he stays stuck in limbo). She is not a bad person, its understandable when you are confused, but still have some margin of love there, that you want to keep the person in your life to help make your decision feel better and not feel guilty or that she shattered you by doing it. She doesnt want you as her boyfriend, but she does want you there- she is not being slick or mean, its what certain people do. Dont give her that.

 

After a month or so, hit her up and tell her this was a good decision, and that life is good. People want what they cant have. She might think you reverted back to your old self, the old self she fell in love with in the beginning, and that you might be unleashing that on a new woman. Let her ego take a hit as she realizing that she too can be rejected, and that she too can have someone lose some feelings for her, and let her take that baggage with her to whoever she meets in the future.

 

Also, analyze what went wrong. Its very rare for someone to dump someone that remained consistent to the same traits they had when they first went out with them. This is important not only for future women, but also in case she ever comes back.

 

I have had many ex's come back. A week after my ex broke up with me, another ex of mines hit me up on facebook. I have actually moved in a different direction and know what I want, so i ignore that ex. The break up had some good in it because it helped forged that idea that i can have some more compatable. All my ex's came back eventually, they never said, HEY I WANT YOU BACK, but i suspect they wanted me back (some made it more obvious) considering i met them online, and we never really had a friendship to begin with.

 

Well, after the month call to tell her she was right, and this decision was for the best, and that you moved on, tell her you want to chill as friends. Same thing you were doing, but this time she has it in her head that you are GONE, A STRANGER (WHICH CAN BE SEXY) BUT STILL SHOW The traits of what she fell for, what she is missing you (since now she believes you have moved on), and that you are decisive (women like men who take charge and make decisions). And make sure you do it on your terms, on your time, and act busy. Like someone above said perfectly, PUSH AND PULL. Dont talk about the relationship until she does, she needs to put the work in it. Act like you freaking a sexy rich man who is busy with life and full of ambition and mystery (you have all of this i explained, plus the fact you still have a bit of the connection from the relationship, this might work in your favor, especially if there is another guy she is seeing).

 

Does this work? I dont know, i dont bother to try it in my situation. I wont contact my ex after the first month. But this advise is everywhere as people explain this is the only shot to get them back.

[ngu11]

Crushed hit the nail on the head...and then some!

 

I would definitely echo the sounding needy comment. It's like you're sweating her to tell you what you want to hear. She basically said nothing...just responded to your questions with vague answers.

 

To me, she's trying to be kind/caring of your feelings but you BOTH seem emotionally shattered. People understimate this fatigue...it can be fatal!

 

In my opinion, you have to translate everything into laymans:

 

you: Do you want to work at this with me?

her: not really

you: but why?

her: I don't want to

you: are you sure?

her: stop asking me

 

blah, blah...you get the picture my friend.

 

You know the drill and your advice for others is always pretty sound. Now give her what she wants...if she asks for a coke and you buy her a coke...she's happy. If she asks for a diamond and you buy her a diamond....she's happy. If she asks for you to leave her alone...give the girl what she wants! She'll be happy. Sometimes we should be careful about what we ask for though right?

 

If i'm honest, like realllly honest ...(I think I'll be berated for this) we as caring and loving men let women get away with too much! We give them too much time and head space after they dump us and I'm guilty of the same thing.

 

Let's just give them what they want...why not? It will make them happy! In my personal experiences, women have a habit of telling us what they want RIGHT now. it has little to no reference as to what they may want tomorrow.

 

Chillax and have your vag*na removed! I don't think our ex's are lesbians!

[WeightOffChest]

I like what you're saying. A lot of it has a feel and ring of truth as to the whole situation. Can you be more descriptive of the a-hole personality? Be a jerk to her at work if she talks to me? Or just start sleeping around with all the bar-stars (word will get around...somehow recently she said she was really jealous of me and hated feeling like that though I kept all my goings ons quiet I had thought..)?

Whoa whoa whoa, take it easy there champ.

 

I feel you're missing the point about being an * * * * * * * , which I use in the most endearing way in this case. Sure, you listed some acts and traits that an * * * * * * * might use, but to me, having an assholish mindset has more depth than that. It's all about maintaining a higher level of attraction for yourself. endy is right, you need to show her that you're the alpha male and she's lucky, no, privileged to be around you. Pull away for a bit. It's not about treating her like crap or being absurd. While Swingers is a great movie and Vince Vaughn's character was very successful as an * * * * * * * , the idea is not to actually be downright mean.

 

"How about if I wait six weeks to call. I could tell her I found her number while I was cleaning out my wallet, I can't remember where we met. I'll ask her what she looks like and then I'll ask her if we * * * * ed. How about that? Would that be money? "

 

That would be a little overboard.

 

Read a bit about seduction and how to use some pick-up techniques to keep her interested. You're already at an advantage as this girl has found you attractive before. Hell, you were probably an * * * * * * * to the girl when you first met her. You know, cracking a joke about how weird her teeth look when she smiles, and then she'd cover her mouth and laugh... Making fun of her lack of knowledge about sports as she clamors for you to teach her about football... Jokingly slap her on the butt as she walked away after you established that comfortable rapport with her... While all these things sound ridiculous, you know you've seen other guys do these things and have tremendous success. Chances are, I'll bet that's how she became attracted in the first place (you probably don't even remember how you attracted her in the first place as you started seeing her a while ago). The idea of being an * * * * * * * to girls is that you need to treat them like your kid sister. Don't be outright mean, but tease her a little. Don't be a chauvinist, but act like you know what's best. Don't be emotionally distant or completely aloof, but create some mystery for yourself. She'd be a lot more interested in you if you kept it interesting.

 

Look, you're a nice guy and you're not going to change that unless you become seriously jaded at life. I wouldn't give this advice for a lot of threads because some people are too emotionally fragile to handle a mindset change. But I think that you're rational enough and have a good understanding enough to do it. Your chances at reconciliation are just being thwarted by the fact that you want it so bad. It will probably work a lot better if you just stick to what attracted her in the first place. So don't think of this as a personality change, but rather just a way to be an * * * * * * * to girls.

[mhowe]

Seth- you have given some great advice on this board, and I think it's time you took some!! Crushed, NGU11, Weight --- all good words from your fellow men. Now a few words from the other side:

 

If I'm reading this right, you have a long history with this woman, but you are both in/freshly out of college...looking at grad school. It can be a time of great stress and introspection for many people --- you feel like you are on the threshold of a whole new life, with sooo many choices --- and what if you make the wrong one. It doesn't seem to me that your ex is playing games --- she has pretty well articulated her position right now.

 

You are choosing not to listen. As the ^^^^boys have said --- walk away. Close the door quietly. You being "available" is not working in your favor right now.

It appears you will be in close geographic proximity for the near future, so get on with your life....she is asking for space. Give it to her. She can't miss you if you won't go away. Stop the "hanging out" --- what are you really getting from it anyway? No need to be a A$$ about it...just tell her --- "you know what, I finally hear you".

[ngu11]

lol at WOC...that guy loves that movie for sure! Did you script it by any chance??

 

****I just wanted to add on to it a little...****

 

Advantage #1 She's been attracted to you before...it can happen again if you allow it

 

Advantage #2 She's not in a good place. It's not like she's running around having the time of her life (think about this carefully)

 

Advantage #3 YOU WORK TOGETHER!!! I applied this with my ex when she first broke up with me. I was polite, professional, stand offish and refused to engage in non professional conversation/spend more time around her than was necessary. I basically treated her in the same fashion as I would treat any colleague that I didn't have a personal relationship with (an almost stranger) ... meanwhile, I've bought some new work clothes, having fun with my other colleagues that I DO have a personal relationship with...acting like I was having the time of my life without any reference to the past relationship at all.

 

You have the opportunity to attract her on a daily basis...you don't have to actually engage her to do this.

 

Try it...see how it works...it's best to start properly on a Monday or after you've had at least one day away from the office!

 

Good luck man...

[Nick Lansing]

Not to sound like an echo chamber but... yeah, it sounds too needy.

 

I'm kind of like you, a nice person who doesn't hide his feelings very well. After my divorce, I was determined to just be myself, no games with women, just be honest and treat the women in my life with kindness, understanding and respect. If a woman can't appreciate that, well that's her loss (went my thinking). Well... that hasn't worked out so terribly well. It occurs to me that in the days when I was utterly care-free, playing the field, I had zero problems with being taken for granted or anything like that... but the minute I started to really care about someone, and to let her know, she bailed. I'm seeing someone now who's alright, whom I have no strong feelings for, and she's wrapped around my finger basically.

 

So I dunno, I think I don't ever want to be an * * * * * * * , but I'm gonna try to be a little more stoic in my relationships from now on... I'm gonna hold back more. This is kind of discouraging actually.

 

As someone on the outside, I can say you're better off going NIC/ LC with this girl. Right now she doesn't appreciate you. You're a good dude, I can tell, a caring, sensitive person... those are great qualities in any person, but you're being taken for granted. Respect yourself, man, and show her you can live without her. Which, of course, you can.

[mhowe]

Nick --- it's not that women don't appreciate a nice person, who doesn't play game -- and we want to be treated with kindness, understanding and respect. It's the "not hiding my feelings" part that can be off-putting too early in a relationship. You don't need to head all the way to stoic or reserved --- just not needy.

 

anyway, don't mean to hijack thread.

[Nick Lansing]

Nick --- it's not that women don't appreciate a nice person, who doesn't play game -- and we want to be treated with kindness, understanding and respect. It's the "not hiding my feelings" part that can be off-putting too early in a relationship. You don't need to head all the way to stoic or reserved --- just not needy.

 

anyway, don't mean to hijack thread.

 

No, thanks, mhowe, that's good advice. I phrased that badly. I always want to treat women (and everyone) with kindness and respect. I don't ever want to change that. But I do think I should hold back more about my feelings too early. That's not being untrue to myself, it's just being prudent.

 

Neediness is repellent. At times of crisis in a relationship, like what SethSLC is facing, I think it's best to be a little stoic. Give her space. It's hard because you do have to suffer, no way around it, and your natural impulse is to turn to your partner for comfort and reassurance, as you're used to doing... but at times like this it just tends to drive them away.

[mhowe]

The woman in your life wants to be that --- the woman in your life; friend, lover.... she doesn't want to be your therapist. And she reallllly doesn't want to feel like you can't live with out her. Think about the difference between want and need. I want to be wanted....needing me is kind of creepy!!

[CMS]

Being reading David DeAngelo much?

[WeightOffChest]

Being reading David DeAngelo much?

In the past I read the Game...

 

For the most part, I've always found the tenets of picking up girls to be true. But, I've never really gotten into the whole scene with reading all the books and doing all that practice. The principles remain though. I've found more success using those ideas just based on the idea that I've always been a little cocky. I've always been good with guys (my guy-game is tight) and managing crowds, but working with girls has always been a learning experience. It was until I really let loose around them that I've been able have much more success relating to them on a personal level, rather than from afar.

[CMS]

In the past I read the Game...

 

For the most part, I've always found the tenets of picking up girls to be true. But, I've never really gotten into the whole scene with reading all the books and doing all that practice. The principles remain though. I've found more success using those ideas just based on the idea that I've always been a little cocky. I've always been good with guys (my guy-game is tight) and managing crowds, but working with girls has always been a learning experience. It was until I really let loose around them that I've been able have much more success relating to them on a personal level, rather than from afar.

 

 

Dont get me wrong, I am big into his teaching about manufacturing attraction through cocky and funny behavior, it works great for short term but I find it harder to keep up in a long run, there are only so many one liner you can make. I think Strauss said the same thing in a recent interview. But its still a great technique.