Advice

[NCforME]

Honestly, I think the key factor here is the resentment. I think her wanting her freedom is an excuse. Its not real. Sure she does feel that way but she got another guys number? What does she think if she starts dating someone else that the same lack of freedom doesn't apply? The truth is she feels like she needs space and freedom because you are chasing her and something is not right in the relationship. I think that something is that there is a dark cloud over of resentment over it. Another guy seems like an attractive option not because she doesn't love you but because he doesn't come with baggage and it seems easier. If you can focus on making things easier this could work out. But that is easier said than done because you do have a legitimate resentment towards her and thats why you keep having these deep conversations with her. You are looking for validation in your concerns from her and shes not giving them to you. Do you sense her "mirroring" your effort? Have you ever talked to her about it?

 

I think the whole timing thing is bit BS too. Its true situations can make things harder but if your giving someone what they need they will go through hell and high water to stay with you. If you are their ultimate source of fun and if nobody understands them like you then why would they want to be with someone else? So chances are you are not meeting her needs and that might not be really your fault. I may just be too hard with everything that has happened. But thats up to you!

[SethSLC]

She has never mirrored my effort. These conversations we have are a sign that I'm seeking validation from her to reassure me and my own fears that she won't hurt me again. All the while, though the last few days I've done better, I haven't really explored her fears and validated her concerns. I think I need to read more push / pull again and if I have an opportunity to mirror and push / pull try and see what is at the bottom of her need to not be tied down.

 

I for damn sure have probably been stressing her and her "lizard" out to extremes and it must feel very unsafe and full of overwhelming pressure for her even though I wasn't aware I was being that source of stress.

[Romi]

Hi Seth!

 

Well, here's what I think. I'm sorry but I have to agree with Endy when he said "I think you know deep down what you have to do".

 

You been trying to fix things for months and she's still confuse. You really improve yourself in every way. Really work on yourself. And I think she's still selfish with you.

You know you want to be with her and want "something else or something more" but you do know also that she can't give you what you want right now and staying is not gonna fix that. I'm sorry honey but that's my honest opinion...

 

Also she got a guy's number... She was honest by telling you but that shows she's already testing her freedom while still with you.

 

You need to step back now. You are accepting her behaviour and it's not right at all.

 

Timming is not the same for both of you right now but that doesn't mean it won't be in the future.

If she's asking for freadom then give it to her COMPLETELY.

Also don't get me wrong, I thing she loves you as you do love her but she needs time away to think and to see the kind of guy she's about to lose. Maybe then she will be ready to commit.

 

Just like Endy said "Time, and patience... If it's meant to be she will come back eventually".

 

Hugs,

 

Romi

[SethSLC]

Exactly Romi

 

I've come to the decision that I'm walking away. I'm not going to make a point of having that conversation or giving her an ultimatum of having to make a decision because at this point it's pretty much been said "without saying it". If she initiates the conversation along those lines then I'll give her the ultimatum of having to make a decision. I'm fully prepared that the decision no matter what is that she's leaving so I've made my peace with it.

 

While at work I'm just going to say hi or a few nice things if I bump into her, otherwise I'm not going to initiate any kind of contact. If she wants me she knows where I am and what I want. Moving on to different things, not better, just different and I'm going to be okay. It's still a broken heart but doesn't hurt near as bad as last time.

[endy]

Seth... don't give her any ultimatum at all. Just be yourself. You are looking at this relationship too deeply. She is 24... and she may meet someone else, and if that happens... obviously it was meant to. The insight here is it isn't going to happen the right way for you guys now. So you need to let go. If it's meant to be... it will be. You will move onto better things. I really don't see you being with her in the future, unless she changes for herself. You know how to do that and you will either way. You're better than what she is giving you. Seriously, I can see it in you that you deserve better.

 

Take your time, and don't live so fast. You will be fine, and you'll find someone better man.

[Romi]

Seth... don't give her any ultimatum at all. Just be yourself.

 

I agree! Don't do it. You're gonna force her to make a decision she's not ready to make...

 

Just be that guy you were when you started to talk to her again. CONFIDENCE is the key. I know you are a strong guy. Re read your own advice you gave to others here and follow it!

 

I'm here if you need to talk.

[SethSLC]

You're right that there is no need for an ultimatum per say. For now I've decided to just assume she's made a decision and go with it. If she decides to come to me and talk then that is her choice and we can take it from there. Until then I'm assuming she's decided she wants time apart to think and clear her own head, because like I've said she's told me she's just as confused supposedly as I am. That means we both have to make a decision for ourselves and I decided I'd like to try. So for now the ball is in her court.

 

When / If she decides she wants to talk and or make a decision I'll be around. Until then rather than push or add any kind of pressure I have just accepted that she made the decision without making it. Really at the end of the day this decision has to be hers and hers alone. She's the one that has to make a choice since I believe I've decided I would like to try.

 

It has released any tension or anxiety for now anyways on my side so that has allowed me to regain my confidence in being alone once again. It allowed me to remember why I love her and what it means to love someone. If you love someone then you have to love them whether they're with you or not, and want them to be happy with or without you.

 

If she wants me she knows where to find me, and if that comes then we can cross that bridge.

[CMS]

Any updates buddy?

[SethSLC]

So here's a long update...

 

So, what..., maybe a week to a 10 days after I "Quasi-Left" her and we had straightened misunderstandings out about what I had meant when I said things (see I have come to find out I speak in short-hand which is clear as day to me, but clear as mud to others because they don't have the long-hand version floating inside their head when they hear the short). She started coming into my office asking me to walk downstairs and get coffee with her most days at work. She would then spend gradually increasing amounts of time in my office after getting said coffee to chit chat. This went on for a few weeks and more and more she initiated it, though I did initiate sometimes as well.

 

Then a guy we both knew decently at work died and she asked if I was going to the funeral, I said yes as I find things like that are great crossroads moments in life to truly remember why we're alive, and to take advantage of the time we have, not to mention to pay my respects. Week of the funeral came, and as I was walking to my car to go home and let my puppy out and change for the funeral I walked right into her and she asked if I was going to see the puppy and if so could she come? I can't say no to this lady, so of course I agreed, and we did that, and she asked if we could get lunch before the funeral so I agreed. We had a nice conversation at lunch (no relationship stuff) and talked about family, her parents (her father doesn't have the best health), her healing broken wrist, school for both of us, etc. Went to the funeral and during I let her cry into my shoulder as I held her and held her hand, which I maintained while driving her back to the office to her car. She asked what I was doing the rest of the day and I told her I was going to take the dog for a walk up the canyon and reflect and process the funeral. Offered to let her go and she politely declined so I shrugged it off and went about my business.

 

Another week passes and yet more constant walks to get coffee. Even a moment in the elevator ride down where I probably should have kissed her because somehow our faces got that close as we were laughing or doing something and it was (I kid you not) a surreal scene straight out of Hollywood. But I was never good at that sort of stuff and the moment passed. Though sporadic hand holding as we walked down the hallway to get coffee sometimes did happen during that week.

 

Anyways the following weekend (2 weeks ago) was the local Pride (Gay and Lesbian festival) here in town and I was volunteering to work a booth with some friends. Was having a great time, took the puppy (who is an incredible ice breaker) and was talking with a really hot girl working the booth with us. So I get a text message from the ex asking if I was going to be at Pride. I said yes, I'm working it. She said "Cool". Next thing I know she's shown up (looking really hot with her hair done in a new fashion) and proceeds to hang out (she's also really good friends with the people I was there with). So after our volunteer shift is over we go to walk around and right away lost our friends so it was just she and I and the puppy. We ended up hanging out and laughing for another 6 hours or so. It's pretty hot there and I could tell my puppy was getting to be done with the day so I asked if she was done "seeing the puppy" (dancing around the subject that I assumed she was there to see me, yet letting her know that was my guess) and she replied "No not yet." so we hung out for a few more hours. Then as it was time to leave and we're walking to our respective parking places somehow our hands met again, and stayed that way for a bit, though this time when they let go it was with a tight semi-long squeeze on her part.

 

So last week, yet more daily coffee routines, and I invited her to lunch with me to which she accepted and was a good time. Then I ended up having a small issue come up with 1 of my teeth (lost a cap on a front tooth) that I needed to go see my Dentist the next morning, so I sent a quick email to work saying "Dr emergency, won't be in tomorrow, I'll catch you Monday". My phone was still on silent from class earlier that day, and so I never noticed until a few hours after the email sending that I've not got 9 missed calls, 4 voice mails, 6 texts from her freaking out. She texts again a few minutes later and I respond that I'm fine, that I don't really want to talk about it (hi embarassment), but that it's not a big deal. She continues to spaz out, saying that telling her not to worry doesn't stop the worry. Anyways I let it go and after failing to get to my Dentist (jerk doesn't work on Fridays) I grab 2 iced lattee's since I've already taken the day off work and tell her to come meet me outside. I proceed to show her, after getting yelled at of course and grilled on what the hell is wrong (still too embarassed to tell her), that I'm okay and that I'm healthy. She wasn't satisfied but let it go, though I could tell she was kind of either pissed or probably just really worried (she said that when something is serious I always say it's fine, which is true, though this time it really was fine).

 

After leaving her and on my way home I send her a message saying I really just wanted to see her and that was why I showed up, not to prove I was healthy, and realized that I was frustrated with the constant confusion as to what she wants from me so asked if she wanted to talk about anything, us, etc. She said she wanted to see me too, but got mad that I asked if she wanted to talk (I meant that if she wanted to initiate that talk, not that I did) right before she goes on a weekend rafting trip (she would leave an hour from then) for the weekend with her roomate. I said you're right bad timing, sorry, maybe next week sometime if you want. She responds with some choice swear words (just in general frustration not directed at me) and a "I'm so ****ing confused! God damnit". That's where I left it not bothering to respond, cause what do you say to that anyways?

 

Sooooo...yeah. Good times ahead But at least I can shrug things off, though I will admit that nightly I go home telling myself to just leave her and be done with it, when I see her the next day I forget my resolve cause Love does indeed make a fool out of me more often than not.

[endy]

Rough situation still man. I think you are still giving her too much IMO. Instead of asking her when the dog is tired if she wants you to stay just go and say I'll catch up with you later. Try it out, see how it works. Stop asking for her approval so much ;-) if that makes sense to you anyways. Just my opinion.

[SethSLC]

Ahhh my personal diary

 

No you're right, and I would wager 90% of our interactions that is how it ends, with me saying "this was nice, I gotta go, I'll catch ya later". In fact that is how tonight ended, I mentioned I was going to the park and she asked to join and brought the puppy a frisbee. We had a really fun walk / play for a few hours in the sun and rain and on the way back she took a huge breath and said "Soooo...you want to talk" and I said "You misunderstood what I meant but that was my fault for not being clear, I meant if YOU wanted to talk we could" in reference to our conversation pre-trip of hers. I told her I didn't really feel the need to talk about us, and honestly I didn't, but if she wanted to talk I'd gladly listen. That seemed to take pressure off her which is cool and a nice side effect but again, I don't feel the need to talk about us.

 

So we got back to my place and she asked if I wanted to maybe bring the dog around her cat for a while to get her used to her. See the cat was a huge, huge, huge source of conflict and misunderstanding between us in the relationship. She thought I hated the cat, because I gave off that impression because of how I chose to tease her about it's meowing, and shaving it when she'd go home to visit her parents (she never knew the whole time she was gone I played with the cat and would do what I could to get her to sleep on my lap all day), but I loved that cat.

 

Anyways.... without talking about us we somehow had a really deep conversation about aspects of the past and she had lots of little "oh and ah-ha!"'s. Strange how when you stop caring about the outcome of things or trying to talk through things, they find a way of happening the way they're supposed to. So we laughed a bunch and had more interesting little understandings come up then she laid her head on me and smiled saying she really missed me on her trip this weekend. I smiled and told her I missed her too, to which she cockily replied "I know!" so she had to get held upside down so my dog could lick her face into submission.

 

Then I figured she needed to get home and do her homework so I ended it on my terms and that's that. If anyone still reads this and is looking for advice, the best advice I've ever given or gotten is that when you're over the breakup and the past relationship and have moved on enough to be able to take any outcome in stride, that's when Life takes over and tends to bring you what you need.

 

For me it has brought peace of mind.

[CMS]

Nice to hear that man, I know you will ok no matter the outcome, best of luck bro

[italiannmf24]

I'd be more patient with the situation and allow her to explore her life a bit more.

 

Don't invest too much of yourself into her, it'd be easier if you had a productive and exciting single life outside of relationships.

[endy]

I think you're doing fine. Just keep it casual and let nature take it's course man. Work on letting go of all the things you need to. All that fear that you had. Looks like it's gone for now. Question is if it gets serious again are you gonna be able to handle that fear, is it going to be gone permanently? Look inside and figure that one out and I think you'll be good.

[SethSLC]

I've got a highly active social life. Tons of friends I'm always going out with to concerts, bbq's, camping, road trips, festivals, constantly out hiking / running with the dog and having her meet new ladies for me, so that isn't a problem, and if I meet a really great girl while my ex is still in limbo then I will be all over it.

 

As far as being afraid of what would happen if we ever got back together, well who knows really, but I expect that I'd handle it almost exactly the same as with any other girl. The difference would be that we would need to deal with some of the baggage of the breakup but it has always been my number one rule that if she and I were really going to give it a solid try then we'd do it working with a counselor to help guide through dealing with that baggage so I'm not worried about it. So yes I believe any of the fear and anxiety that came with the breakup are gone for good in part because I worked hard on growing as a person, but I'd say mostly because pretty much a year has gone by. The advice most people here get about giving things time has always been spot on.

[endy]

Yeah IMO you have the knowledge and the tools to get through it if that's what you want. It's just going to be about what you want or feel is right for you when it comes down to it. This is a great thread. You'll get what you deserve eventually no matter what happens. Have faith in that.

[SethSLC]

Do-be-do-be-do...

 

So last Friday I went home for lunch to let the puppy outside for a bathroom break and sent her a text message saying she really confuses me (she'd said something earlier right before I left that I can't remember now but confused me at the time) and it was like the floodgates opened and she proceeded to flood me with a long explanation or story. She proceeded to tell me how she feels we're meant to be together. How she feels like she's made the decision to be with me, but for some reason she can't figure out hasn't gone through with it. That she's afraid of committment and being tied down in case she has to leave for work next year or something. That she gets jealous of me when she never has before. That she is afraid of getting hurt, etc etc etc.

 

I figured now was as good a time as any so I gave her an ultimatum of sorts. Basically told her (face to face mind you, not the thing to do over text or a phone) that I've been incredibly patient with her and that I can be patient for a little while longer, but not too long. That she needs to put on her big girl panties and either jump into the pool and stop dipping your feet in, or she needs to let me go for good. That if she decides to stay then we both need to actually do it (try 100%), and not do it part way or we'll just end up back where we are now. She agreed to all of it cause she had pretty much the same thoughts herself anyways.

 

So ya, I left it at that and am still working hard on doing my own thing. If she decides to really get over her fear and I'm still available great, if not then that's great too.

[Romi]

Hi Seth, well I’m back from my vacations in NY and wanted to know how you are.

 

I can see that in the mean time there were lots of improvements but in your last post you’re not so positive about the outcome.

 

I think you were right about giving her an ultimatum. You were too patient with her and made everything that you could to be with her… So now, how are you? Any news?

Let me know!!

[SethSLC]

I'm good Romi

 

Working hard at work and school and still finding plenty of time to enjoy the summer. As far as she and I go, I'm still a tiny bit puzzled but also very content. She has said for the past 2 weeks or so now that she feels like we're meant to be together. She's said she feels like she's made her decision to be with me. Yet she isn't doing it. She's becoming very frustrated with herself over it, but I'm taking it in stride. She understands that it isn't fair to me for me to wait around until she can get past whatever it is that is preventing her from committing full force, and I'm not waiting around either.

 

I believe, and I'm just guessing here because only she would ever really know and it's pretty obvious that she can't figure it out for herself or she would have, that the reason she isn't doing anything about her decision is probably a mix of fear about committment along with burned once syndrome (you get hurt once you are more hesitant to commit to touching the thing that burned you before). But again who knows really. I'm fairly confident she'll get over it sooner rather than later, but if she doesn't then it isn't too big of a deal.

 

How are things with you??

[Ms Darcy]

Well buddy, I hope you have to strength to truly walk away. Best of luck.