Back to business: 20, single, virgin

[lonelynshy]

OK,I have a lot of posts to catch up on PAdreamer (would you mind if I called you by some other name???) and all other girls here,do you think a guy looks dorky and geeky if he wears braces? You know,the mouth hardware. I thought things were going bad enough for me as it is and now my family persuaded me to get braces and now I have zero chance of attracting any girls. Yeah,maybe I'll have a nice smile in the next century but I don't care about that! It's the early 20's that are most important for dating,right? If I miss out now,I'll be permanently left behind in the race. Actually there's nothing I can do about anything now but I just wanted to vent.

[lonelynshy]

Hey Outlaw,I can relate. A lot of people(girls) think I'm not good-looking either. Nobody has called me downright "ugly" but they don't really think I'm average either. Even though my facial features are OK, my short skinny build ruins it all.

[johnagent1911]

I wish to be even average...

 

That'd be cool with me. I don't much to offer.

 

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[Shinobie]

U should open one padreamer it might be fun .U can probably help lots of people like some uf almost hopeless males like us but we try and i want to keep on trying.Ill try to talk to this girl tonight at work is she is there and bring up some great conversation and maybe try to flirt in a friendly way like she did a couple of times yesterday.My friend flirts so extrmely immaturely yet girls like it and they always liek him whys this?

 

hesays like when they r talking to him about something important at work he'll say "ya,we're married" all fast and funny like and they laugh and think its funny.Im probably just quite jealous that hes able to make girls like him right away but he does not use it to good morals.He dates like off and on so muhc breaks up like right away never is serious bout anything.

he jokes he says have to do with his "small head" and its like he always thinks with that.Isnt this a stupid comment he said about life?What he said was "If u look at it all lifes goal is and love is to get into somebodies pants.Thats blatent bullcrap i think love consists of someone who is always there for you and never gets mad.Someone u can go through the hard times with and someone u can stare straight into there eyes and say "i luv u" its so much more.

[Bitterness Inc.]

I guess you can only hope for him he somedays comes to his senses and realizes sex without feelings is like eating raw meat. Crude and unsatisfying (well in the long run anyway!).

[PAdreamer]

You guys really are a kick to read! LOL! Wow! So much to cover today! where should I start? Oh, and by the way, you guys can call me Kari. It's easier to type.

Let's start with the looks aspect of things. Guys, ALL OF YOU, listen up because it really should only require one time of me saying this for it to get through! No matter what you look like, there is someone out there who will love you. The real question is are you so shallow that the person you might fall in love with has to look a certain way? You guys all know that even the world's "ugliest" people have been perfectly matched in life. Go to the mall and take a good look around. Fat people, short people, tall people... Every kind of person you can think of has a potential mate in the world. There is someone out there who couldn't care less what you look like. Do I need to remind you all of my own story with my boyfriend? Lonely, braces are not as bad as it gets. I have a friend who was born with a severe medical condition, and never even really makes it out of his house very often. Now compare your situation to his and tell me which is worse. I have hope for him, but he hardly stands a chance. And still, it is not impossible for him to find love because he has a very positive attitude about it and he does everything he can to keep his venues and options open. I urge you guys to get some perspective here. Is it really that no girls would like you? Or is it that you guys have such a narrow field as far as what girls YOU are interested in?

In all honesty, I don't believe that if any of you met me you'd have any interest in me. You'd probably all be busy looking at someone a little more above average than me. Of course, you'll all deny it now because you'd had some time to hear my views and you guys respect me. But if we randomly met you guys wouldn't care about all that- you probably wouldn't take the time to get to know me as well as you have. and I guarantee, I'm nothing impressive when it comes to looks. I know that sounds very harsh and accusatory, but you have to consider that everything is about appearances. The first impression is the most important, and you have no idea who is watching what you do or hearing what you say. If you guys want to find real happiness and true love, I suggest that you take some time to examine your lives. Look at who you are and ask yourself if that's really the way you want to live the rest of your lives. Bitterness is right: you have to make an active effort to change the things that keep you from what you want. I know that sounds contradictory to what I said earlier, but I think that as long as you are not changing your overall character, then it's okay to change. It's like my film teacher says: "You gotta shovel a lot of Sh*t to find the diamond." Sometimes your true character is hidden by the things that you've allowed to represent you. I know that probably doesn't make any sense, and I'm rambling like usual... I guess that's really all that I wanted to say to you guys.

[Shinobie]

Padreamer why do u think ur below average i personally think ur really pretty in my opinion ,dont let other people put u down if they say that because ur not at all.I think ur more like what people call beautiful instead of hot which iswhat everybody wants, i think there is a difference between these words.Things have been going great have been talking with the girl at work and stuff a lil bit still an she flirted a couple of times again except i feel flat once when i tried to do something flirtacious but o well all i have to do is learn.I think ive just had bad start from this depression and need to learn everything i can about girls,dating,and love.

How i look at it in a good way is that i always end up procrastinating anyways and i always cram everything in such lil time and catch up thats what i need to do I found out that she definitely has a boyfriend by when he came in and hey he looked tall and lanky just like me so maybe i have an ok chance with her with that just as a little added bonus,if they ever break up but nah who am i kidding but theres always hope.Its amazing how a girl can feel just by exchanging eye contact and smiling.

She was walking up the cooks line and now since i actually make eye contact with girls she smiled and i smiled back it makes u feel good for some reason to that with any person but with a nice beautiful girl it makes u feel nervous and happy at the same.So ill continue talking to her in a friendly way and wont stop trying to improve.It feels great im actually getting some attention froma girl and she is like the first one ive gained this much from because i actually make eye contact and smile now.So it will feel good when i become friends with this girl and advance in the world of women and gain more experience in how to act around them

[Caldus]

Shinobie don't worry about it you're doing the best you can. It sounds like she might want to be friends with you so it looks like you've already accomplished that.

[wlfpack81]

up because it really should only require one time of me saying this for it to get through! No matter what you look like, there is someone out there who will love you. The real question is are you so shallow that the person you might fall in love with has to look a certain way?

 

Want me to be honest..yes? I feel if other people have the right to go out with someone they are at least somewhat attracted too then why can't I? Why should I have settle for something different if they don't. I mean I know I'm unattractive (skinny, tall, non-musclar, long face somewhat) and won't get supermodel types of girls or even what most guys consider 5's-10's (hence why I wouldn't/haven't approached girls of that magnitude as well as tried to avoid even wastng my time looking at them in public) but I do have some standards. I mean no offense being a skinny guy I'm not into big girls since I would like someone as clsoe to my size as I can get. I mean if I happen to meet someone big and we talked and I eventually came to like her then that's a different story but being honest, unless you're a mind reader etc. your (and my eyes) or normallly gonna focus on the types of people we're interested and not in the types we aren't interested in. Yea my response sounds shallow somewhat but I am being honest.

 

And not to weird you out or anything but if that's a pic of you in that avatar then from what I can see I wouldn't consider you below average and think you are attractive. However, being honest if I met you in public I still probably wouldn't talk to you b/c I wouldn't think I'd be in your leauge.

[lonelynshy]

Kari,you are very pretty! It's true so don't think I'm just trying to make you feel good

 

I suppose I can compare myself to a lot of people worse off than me. (although as far as romance is concerned,I'm near the bottom) but it really doesn't take away my loneliness. Thanks for offering your perspective,however.

 

To be honest,I stay away from very tall and very large girls,both intimidate me. Otherwise,I am fairly open-minded about my partner's looks.

 

By the way, some people have mentioned that we are governed by crude instincts,why is why women prefer strong, muscular men. Well then,why do men prefer skinny,beautiful,long-leg dames? (that's the general perception).

[PAdreamer]

LOL! Wow, I didn't mean to make it sound like I'm down on the way I look. What I meant is that I may not look like some gorgeous supermodel like I might WISH that I did, but I have learned to get over the silly disappointments and I appreciate the way I look. For example, I have really strange eyes, and for I while I was told that my eyes made me look scary, but now I get complimented on them all the time! See what I mean? I'm not tall and skinny and I don't have perfect skin or hair, but I am content with how I look. But thanks for all the compliments guys!

Lonely, I know that just because someone else is worse off then you doesn't make you feel any better. But at least you know that the way you feel isn't the WORST that you could feel. If you think things are bad now, imagine how much worse they could be. I guess I just wanted to reaffirm the fact that you have so much in your life that may not seem like it plays any major role in your love life, but it does. Even things as simple as your ability to walk upright without help. You wouldn't think that being able to walk would effect the way that a girl looks at you. I understand your loneliness... but you still have a chance. A HUGE chance! I guess I made this point originally to let you know that your situation is far better than it feels, so keep trying.

Hey wlfpack! Thanks for your thoughts! You make a great point. I agree with you... every person has specific things that they find physically attractive in a person, and things that they don't. I guess my question is do you all really know all of the things that attract you to a person? People can be very physically attractive on several different levels. I think that everything about a person- their personality, looks, voice, mindset- all of these things compound to make a person attractive. So my question is what are you opening yourselves up to as far as being attracted? And how do you know that just because you aren't INITIALLY attracted to a person means that you'll never be attracted to them?

You know what? My rambling is making less sense than usual! LOL! I'll come back to that one later.

[johnagent1911]

Only if I was hotter, I'd be totally set in life. =)

 

I'd don't even try and talk to girls any more either; I know deep down it wont matter and I'll end up being rejected. I can over come anything and do anything I want in life. However, for some reason I can't figure girls out.

 

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[PAdreamer]

John, it's like I said. Maybe you aren't supposed to figure us out. Just live your life the best that you can and interact with people in the best way that you know how. And eventually things will work themselves out. We aren't always meant to understand. If we understood everything then life wouldn't be worth living.

[Shinobie]

You guys r great!And as for you john u need to keep going for those girls mang and keep trying!Imma keep trying and trying now sense i got some confidence and some self esteem now ill keep it going and keep trying.

[PAdreamer]

John, I really hope you don't do anything stupid! Listen to me... If you read this, I want you to do me a favor and email me okay?

 

email removed

 

I might have some answers for you, but you have to try, okay?

[Outlaw2747]

Above avergae my butt! You are very beautiful PADreamer, but quite frankly girls like you are WAY out of my league as far as looks go.

 

Yo John, I have been on your boat somewhat. Depression and confusion plagued my mind and there was (and still is) nothing I can do about it. I know it is hard but lets look all this bull dung straight in the face and tell it that it cannot defeat us. (ewww I sound so optimistic) Anyways, as many times that I want to give up on girls and sometimes even on society, I know that I cannot give up. Something along the line will go right as far as life goes and there is a VERY slim chance that I will find someone but knowing that possibility is there, I GUESS it is worth waiting for. But I am not counting my chickens before they hatch because I still have that HUGE chance of NEVER being happy with someone. But do us all a favor homie and don't do anything crazy because of some girls. They are not worth dying for like that. let's face it, they are too confusing and too many are just.....unsatisfactory.

 

We are never meant to understand them and some of us are just doomed to live a lonely and used life. thereforeeee, I am no different from you John...after awhile, you just stop caring about certain things. As far as girls go, I am trying to blow most of them off as much as I can and it somewhat works....try it.

[Purple Monkey]

Well, I have a few friends who turned into a-holes on purpose to get girls.

 

A good friend of mine, who is friendly, and smart, decided that in order to get nice girls, he'd be a complete pig. You know what? it worked. I think his exact words were "I'd have trouble finding girls, but if you treat them badly and like s**t it's dead easy". He ended up being very successful with the ladies because of it.

 

I just stood by, as I couldn't force myself to change, and watched several of my friends pick up some really attractive and nice girls. I figured I'd try the same thing, and it worked. I acted like a complete pig as a one-off experiment and it paid off big time.

 

I'm sure there's nice girls out there, just as many as the lads, but where they are, I have no clue. I obsevred the majority of girls with my friends as highly selfish, and pretty stupid at the end of it all.

 

Where am I going with this? I have no clue. I have no clue because I have no clue what the hell women want, and most of us blokes are kidding ourselves if we think we know what's going on in their heads.

[Outlaw2747]

Yeah, it is highly disturbing that girls go for these guys and when they get hurt by them, they go RIGHT BACK to the same guy or ANOTHER jerk. Yet the nice guy is either seen as a friend, emotional support, or just some little wimp that is no good for being with her. Hate to say it but even young nice girls have this mindset and they think they are getting something out of being with a hot guy, a bad boy, or the fact they are trying to change them. And they say it is for a challenge. Ever notice how many girls take this so-called "challenge" only they don't realize they bite off more than they can chew then they try to bite yet ANOTHER piece? I really don't get it and judging by Purple Monkey's experience.....this occurrence is very frustrating for guys like me indeed.

[lonelynshy]

Yeah you guys hit the nail on the head there. As I think about it,I remember many of my successful guy acquaintances who adopted the same tactic. Some of them were nice guys deep down, but they didn't hestitate to string girls along,playing them and dumping them. And yet,these girls kept coming back. One really weird thing that happened was that one of my buddies got tired of a girl who kept chasing him, and knowing my problems,he tried setting her up with me, telling her glowing things about me. And it STILL didn't work. She actually told him that I scared her. He was tactful but I got the general idea that she wasn't any more attracted to me than to an earthworm. It's so depressing.

[PAdreamer]

Oy! I guess I was kidding myself this whole time by thinking that I might be able to help you all get over this mindset. But I feel like things are just getting worse. I don't feel like anything I'm saying is getting through to you guys! I know that these beliefs and feelings aren't things that you can get over in a second, but I feel like you guys aren't really stopping to take things into account! It's like you'd rather give up and let things be as bad as you say they are then try and fix them!

I HATE using tough love... I really do! It makes me feel bad to have to tell people that I care about that they just need to get up, get over it, and get on with it. It boils down to this: you have a choice. You have LOTS of choices! But you can't look at the negative results of one choice, or even a hundred choices and assume that everything will be like that. You have to keep trying. Life is trial and error. You observe, engage and learn as you go through life. Yeah, some of the results will be less than you'd hoped for... Some will down right suck. But those aren't the ONLY results that you'll get if you keep trying. And very often those bad results teach you vital lessons that ultimately lead you to the results you are aiming for.

I've tried to do a lot of things in my life. I've had a lot of goals... And since I live at home with my parents and don't have a job, you can imagine how many of those goals have worked out for me. I've wanted to give up so many times. But it's at the moments that I want to give up the most that I know I have to try harder. Achieving goals means overcoming obstacles- whether they be internal or external. What pride is there in accomplishing a goal that was easy to reach? The greatest achievments are the ones you have to fight the hardest for. And just because a situation doesn't turn out the way you wanted doesn't mean it turned out badly.

[Mitler]

The real question is are you so shallow that the person you might fall in love with has to look a certain way?

 

Before I begin, since I'm new, I am 24, never had a real girlfriend... not 100% sure why. Partly my own fault, partly bad luck.

 

You make a very good point, however I want to point out something: I cannot have a romantic interest in someone that I don't find physically attractive. It doesn't have to be someone drop-dead of course, but there just HAS to be some level of physical attraction. I don't think that's really shallow, its just the way it is. There also has to be some level of personality attraction. Without one, the other doesn't matter. I can't overlook personality on an attractive girl, and I can't overlook attraction (or lack-thereof) on a personable girl. Of course, I would venture that there are a good number of girls that I may find attractive that other guys won't and vise-versa. That is how everyone ends up with someone - because different people are attracted different ways. I don't think you can really mess with that too much. Also some girls CAN become more attractive as I know them, but only if there's at least a seed to begin with. But understand that I could never be happy trying to become attracted to someone when I'm just plain not. Bad things could come of that if I failed to convince myself. (Opinions on this?)

 

Further complicating is that I don't really think I'm that unattractive. Its mostly mental and I'm just kind of awkward in my own skin sometimes. My big physical flaw is that I'm not at all muscular... pretty scrawny. Complicating things even more is that I'm a Christian who wants a girl with similar values, but not extremely conservative. There's almost no middle ground on that one. I've written a post in a blog detailing the link removed syndrome that takes many potentials off the list for me.

 

I'm not really looking for advice as much as pointing out that some people just have a really hard time with it and thats the way it is. My main point being that I can't be forced to be attracted to someone, and trying to pretend that I can would probably end up in disaster... and broken hearts.[/i]

[Mitler]

By the way PA you sound like you have things together and I think your advice, even if it may sometimes fall on deaf ears, is definitely worth reading.

[PAdreamer]

Thanks for the compliment, Mitler. I know what you mean about having to be attracted in some form. I actually tried to say that exact same thing in one of my posts; I guess you said it better than me! LOL!

I won't go any further on your religious situation, except to say that I know what you mean. But it sounds like you have a very healthy attitude about dating. That's the type of attitude that I want my friends here to work towards. Everything isn't perfect in your life, but you have a healthy understanding of what obstacles you are facing and how much they really affect you. Sometimes it's just too hard to look at things objectively.

[Outlaw2747]

It is true, there must be SOME type of physical attraction. It isn't shallow, it is just a general preference. Depends on how choosy you are that tells you if you are shallow or reasonable.

 

PADreamer, we have taken note to everything you have said. But even though you are not trying to hit on us or anything, you are making somewhat of a mistake that many girls in their young age make. You are trying to change something in us completely. You are trying to turn pessimists into optimists. The only way most guys change is on their own or with the help of their fellow man. I don't know why this holds true to alot of men but it does. But I do understand you are trying to help and I myself have taken account to your advice but until our situations change, we will continue to think they way we see it and not how we WANT to see it. Blind optimism I like to call it.

 

Scary thing is, even though my ex was a sweetheart, you seem EXACTLY like her. Seemingly free-spirited and WAY TOO optimistic. That's what get people hurt. They see things they WANT to see it and not how it really is. Just covering up the problem with false motivation just makes the problem grow inside and then it hits you without warning. At least pessimists see things coming usually and know what to expect. Although TOO MUCH of a relationship pessimist is doomed to live a horrible life, basically what I am trying to say is LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD. Happy endings for guys like us are few and far between. We are not putting ourselves down, we are calling the plays for what they are. But I still thank you for your ever so enlightening words which somewhat make me feel better.

[PAdreamer]

Hun, you have me figured ALL WRONG! LOL! I am literally sitting here cracking up at your interpretation of my personality! LOL! I admit that I come accross in writing very differently than I do in person... I am not an optimist, per say. I would say that I am a realist. I suppose I can see where you'd perceive me as an optimist. In this forum, I am trying to tip the scale a bit. You guys are all so far in the negative that I am trying to counter it by focusing ONLY on the positive. In reality, I am a very middle-of-the-road person. I acknowledge both sides of situations, and I am very good at accurately weighing them.

Here I feel like, if I lean drastically in the opposit direction, then it may balance things out. I am NOT by any means trying to change anything about you guys. I don't want you to change for me or anyone else. I want you to change if you need to... for YOU. A lot of you have said that you think there is something wrong with you (or statements to that effect). So obviously you want to change things in your lives. I am not trying to change you, I am simply trying to provide a different perspective that might help you guys head towards the middle of the road instead of half way off the shoulder!

I really don't want you guys to misunderstand my motives here. I am a helper- I have a heart to help people. So yeah, I come accross as being somewhat more optimistic in situations where people need help. But trust me, I am not naive and I'm not a bubbly happy-happy pep-rally type of girl. LOL! Just that mental picture in itself makes me laugh!