I got banned from Plenty of Fish!

[annie24]

but real estate can be bought and sold. i wouldn't imagine moving a guy into my 1 bedroom condo. not enough space!!!

[Lonewing]

but real estate can be bought and sold. i wouldn't imagine moving a guy into my 1 bedroom condo. not enough space!!!

 

Yeah, I can understand!! But in getting your own place, there's the easy attachment that develops - and it's worse if you find a guy, get together, and then it falls apart after you sell your "perfect" place. No good.

 

I think this is starting to explain why so many girls have their own houses while so many guys still live at home helping out with mom and dad...A lot of girls say they aren't materialistic, but to be honest, this is Materialism at its finest!!!

 

Basically, the material assumption is, if a guy doesn't have his own place, he sucks. When in reality places are a huge investment and renting is just about the worst investment possible, particularly when there is a place already available for free! I realize "Renting" is Great for building credit, but I have to ask just what value credit has when the very act of using your line of credit could bankrupt one in a day. $1 in credit is worth $100s of dollars in the bank, just ask the credit card companies who offer credit!!!! As my uncle's friend in real estate says, all you need to buy a house is %20 down in cold hard cash, backed with a firm proof of income, and you can pretty much take your pick of the litter at that point...

 

We'll see how things turn out, though, as this recession broadens into a true depresison, just how things wash out. We're near the end of one of the most prosperous periods of human history, and in getting here we have in many ways forgotten why we live together, get married, and have differentiation of labor. Paying $1000 a month for childcare, for example...really??? My dad lives on half that each month!

 

No short answers here. Newwave, good luck getting back on the dating horse!

[newwave]

Men are often intimidated by women who are on a different level. I've had guys intimidated because I have a masters and because at one point I had a great paying job. I don't think women are as imtimidated about this.

[bulletproof]

I think this is starting to explain why so many girls have their own houses while so many guys still live at home helping out with mom and dad...A lot of girls say they aren't materialistic, but to be honest, this is Materialism at its finest!!!

 

Basically, the material assumption is, if a guy doesn't have his own place, he sucks. When in reality places are a huge investment and renting is just about the worst investment possible, particularly when there is a place already available for free!

 

How is this materialism? I am female and own my own house. Was I supposed to rent forever and wait for someone to come along to buy property with, really? Further, what study says that more guys than women are living at home with parents? Where does your information come from?

 

When a woman is skeptical of a man who still lives with his parents at an advanced age (say, past 25 in the United States) it is not because we are materialistic. It is because we expect him to realize that living with his parents is not "free", as you put it. Your parents are paying for gas, electric, water, taxes, a mortgage, food, and a variety of other expenses. Even if you are chipping in, it still does not make up for what they are sacrificing. Moving out from your parents isn't about owning something, it's about learning to live on your own as an adult. In other countries there are cultural differences, but if we're talking about the United States, then this is what you will find women looking for before they date you, yes.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Originally Posted by annie24

I knew that some guys were threatened by me just because i have my own condo. strange why that is. you'd think a guy would be happy a girl has her crap together.

A girl with her crap together is one thing, but a girl who has already built her own foundation...well, foundations are things that should be built together as a mutual investment - without equality in sweat equity, there will never be true equality attainable in that place...Basically put, that place is YOUR space. You have already filled that space with your dreams, your ideas, your projects, and your desires for what it will be. I suppose for those of us who immigrate in, we feel like second class citizens - no matter how comfortable we get, it never quite feels like "Home."

This is an interesting perspective I had never considered.

 

That 30 y.o. "liberal" Christian virgin who condemned me and my "experience" (2-3 encounters after HS in all of 10 years- wow. I was so promiscuous) - she already owned her own home, which I respected.

As we were gently talking engagement, I didn't realize that was her "space."

Maybe she thought I would have intruded on her "space."

 

I also didn't realize I wasn't allowed to speak-up when she vocalized political positions I found repugnant.

I had muted my opinions as I saw some life partner possibility here and getting closer to 30, didn't want to blow this one either.

[annie24]

I think this is starting to explain why so many girls have their own houses while so many guys still live at home helping out with mom and dad...A lot of girls say they aren't materialistic, but to be honest, this is Materialism at its finest!!!

 

See, this is just ridiculous. It's taking a logical act to illogical conclusions. Like bulletproof said - was i supposed to throw money away forever on renting while waiting for prince charming to come and sweep me off my feet? How is this materialistic? I got a 1 bedroom condo. People don't usually live in condos for more than a few years. Most of the people I know who bought here later moved out when they got married or decided to have children and needed a bigger place. First some men are annoyed if a girl owns her own home. then they are annoyed if she wants to get married after x years or months of dating. What is a woman to do?! sit there helplessly, twiddling her thumbs, waiting to start her life once some random man decides he is ready to move out of mom's and dad's basement? What ever happened to taking control of your own life?

[ClarenceRutherford]

I might even pass on girls who own their own houses - at least, until I own one myself.

I never considered that one of my "deal breakers," like smoking, must be similar or somewhat of my faith, not an alcoholic, druggie, not openly promiscuous, doesn't have to politically agree but not openly critical of my views etc.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Men are often intimidated by women who are on a different level. I've had guys intimidated because I have a masters and because at one point I had a great paying job. I don't think women are as imtimidated about this.

I don't know why, but men can also be intimidated by asking out women they work with.

I did date one briefly, but generally felt insecure about doing that. Maybe I felt they were better at me in that field. I dunno.

 

Many of the women in my former field, TV news, were very attractive, outgoing and looked to have lots of friends like Ms. Popularity in college/HS, so maybe I felt some intimidation there.

[newwave]

I briefly considered buying a condo, even saved for it, but after my job loss this kind of went away. I'm glad I didn't buy one, and out here condos are very expensive. Now I'll probably wait until I find a guy and if I don't find one in the next couple of years I might reconsider.

 

I don't know why, but men can also be intimidated by asking out women they work with.

I did date one briefly, but generally felt insecure about doing that. Maybe I felt they were better at me in that field. I dunno.

 

Many of the women in my former field, TV news, were very attractive, outgoing and looked to have lots of friends like Ms. Popularity in college/HS, so maybe I felt some intimidation there.

 

I think part of it is because people are scared to date someone they work with. I've always been against it. Oddly I too worked in broadcasting (mostly radio) and radio people are weird.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Yeah, I was usually scared.

One woman I asked out was big into sports, not my thing. She never went out with me - though I certainly tried. *Despite my colorful avitar, I never was "Mr. Romance" and rarely got the girls to go out with me. Why, I'll never understand. Think it had something to do with self-confidence...

 

I looked her up online years later and found she became a major talk radio host who had an evening sports show in one of the big radio markets in the SW. The "sports or ice queen" or something. She was really into that and so wouldn't have appealed to me as she likely would have talked a lot about sports which I can tolerate and go to games here and there but normally could care less about following it.

 

Interestingly, she appeared to have never married but was into adopting ( financially- not in person - maybe like Sally Struthers) poor children from overseas.

 

On the home issue, you'd think one would respect an achieving woman for saving enough to have her own home/condo. I know I admired Tammy for owning her home.

Guess I didn't realize she was "marking her territory" and I was gonna interefere....

 

I know I've usually "dated up.." I certainly "married up..." in terms of finances and class.

 

One exception was my "rebound girl" who I dated after rejection from Tammy, that 30-yr.old virgin, my first real serious GF that almost led to an engagement.

She didn't go to college but was of my faith. She owned her own small business which was admirable, but I found we didn't really share a lot of similar interests and I figured I needed someone with a little more depth.

She was a good-looking bright blonde - I violated my brunettes-only approach I usually took... and stayed away from real attractive women figuring I couldn't compete, so why bother? Any other guy prob. would have been happy with her.

 

I look forward to chatting with you tonight on email, if you're available. (Unless you have a date, and that would be better for you).

[Lonewing]

My dad has proven over and over and over again how the cost of living for additional bodies in a house is actually quite negligiable. First of all, the heating/cooling will be the same regardless of how many people live there - the space, once heated or cooled to 70 degrees costs the same amount regardless. the txes and the mortgage are also the same. The electric, cable, and internet may be more, but at the same time, due to Family package bundles, this again is less expensive per person then it would be if he lived on his own. Telephones might be expensive, but then when you consider the benefits and lower rates of a family plan [i'm on my uncle's plan with three other family members; the plan for one alone typically runs 40 or 50; it costs $10.00 to add another person to the plan; we're saving over $100 together each month] it's a null issue again. The hotwater is also negligible, at least in my family it was because we all take 5 minute showers. Food was not an issue either - the cost of what he makes is almost apalling - the secret is he buys his grains in bulk, he buys his produce on sale, he buys his meat on sale, and he cooks by the season. Regarldess of how many are present. And when I lived with my uncle, the cost to him was again almost nothign because I very rarely ate there. Indeed, if I didn't eat, he had food spoiling because he had so much of it. Something about my family and food, there's always enough. Basically put, the cost of living at home for both me and my parents, if I lived there, is negligible and little more than they already spend. Furthermore, having my presence there means there's a nother body who can be engaged in homestead projects which might be difficult with only one person but quite fun if there's a strong young body to do the heavy lifting [and nothing to do on Saturdays!]. My uncle got a new roof out of me and my brother when we lived at his place...not to mention a number of other small things done he never could have done without us there to make the projects happen.

 

Basically put, there is no strain upon the host family to have these sorts of living arrangements, at least, not in my family!

 

The point here is, I think the assumption is if a guy doesn't have his own place, he's not going to be able to provide the other things girls want, such as entertainment or a place to move into or assume he's not capable of saving money. There's also the issue of not having a place to go as a couple, or the fact you meet his parents so soon.

 

I can understand being upset about a guy who doesn't yet have a car or more importantly career potential, but to insist they be out renting or owning condos or buying houses when local family options are open...it's just utterly ridiculous. But I see it alot, the demands that the guy have his own place. I'm sure that will be a reversing trend in the coming years with the foreclosures on our heels.

[Lonewing]

This is an interesting perspective I had never considered.

 

That 30 y.o. "liberal" Christian virgin who condemned me and my "experience" (2-3 encounters after HS in all of 10 years- wow. I was so promiscuous) - she already owned her own home, which I respected.

As we were gently talking engagement, I didn't realize that was her "space."

Maybe she thought I would have intruded on her "space."

 

I also didn't realize I wasn't allowed to speak-up when she vocalized political positions I found repugnant.

I had muted my opinions as I saw some life partner possibility here and getting closer to 30, didn't want to blow this one either.

 

I never thought about this either until I dated a woman for 2.5 years and cohabitated with her for just about 2. In that time I learn a lot about domestic turf wars, and to put it blunt...you'll never be an equal in her space. I realize this is to some degrees true even after marriage [the house is her castle, as long as she's happy, everybody is happy...] but I also recognize that in this situation, her previous experience of independence in that space does not bode well for domestic decisions like furniture or appliances.

 

Annie, I think you nailed it - once the marriage is complete, there's the time for selloffs and mergers to clean up any residual feelings left over in those places. In this respect, it's a relaly good idea for a girl to buy a house/condo/etc. I still do not see, thoguh, why any female should find a male inferior for the fact that he still lives at home. I suppose there are some who are completely incapable, but then again, a little motoviation of the right kind and what you see is not necessarily what you get - you'd never have thought my brother would be the husband he was, judging by the single man he was. A complete 180.

[Lonewing]

I think part of it is because people are scared to date someone they work with. I've always been against it. Oddly I too worked in broadcasting (mostly radio) and radio people are weird.

 

Work relationships, at their core, are simply unprofessional. I realize ethics has taken a dump and thus many people can no longer understand why, but there'a reason so many rules exist against these things. In my line of work, I'm not allowed to even think about dating the upper management [nor are they allowed to even think about dating any of us], and further, people at my own level can date others so long as the two people are not in the same shop or department, are not immediate supervisors or subordinates, or be too dissimilar in position within the company.

 

Basically, they do not want to any relaitonship that will impact the work environment, and two loveydoveys in one space shared by 40 other people is not fair to the 38 who wish to work and not have to put up with the games of love while the relationship is hot or the games of war once the relationship ends. It's further there to prevent people from being on the job and preocupied with spending that time working with the spouse on outside issues instead of working - or being a distraction to the rest of the company.

 

Fraternization is not condusive to the work environment...

[ClarenceRutherford]

I know that. These were women I didn't work closely with and were in similar roles (not above or below me).

I was in a different office or "bureau" in a nearby city in TV news. I did see them at work but not often.

They simply catched my eye and as I was always "on the lookout" during my mid-20s, wanted to see if there would be any interest. The door was closed on me-par the course - so it wasn't an issue.

 

A supervisor I used to work with - a really great guy that everyone loved - got in a world of trouble for so-called "sexual harassment" when he went on an out of state business trip with an underling woman.

 

No one really knew the whole story. He ended up resigning and the woman left shortly afteerward and had other work-related problems I later learned. Most of my colleagues at the home office - male and female - said it was prob. more her and that he didn't really sexually harass her.

 

He does have quite an expressive way of saying things sexually so he may have made her uncomfortable with a sexual joke or two, but he did that with everyone.

 

Like one time, at a lunch with some male colleagues, I was discussing a former GF.

Really, I don't remember why. Maybe it was how I related once Tammy turned 30 (I was 26 at that time) it seemed everything went to pot and suddenly, she seemed to find every single wrong thing about me... and enjoyed telling me how I was this and not that.

God, I'm so glad that didn't last... can you imagine what she'd be like if we got married????

It killed me when it ended, but as the years go by, I can see a lot more wrong things and red flags I didn't see at the time when I was blinded by her beauty, charm and my interest in getting married.. She looked a lot like my mom. Yes, I married a younger version of my mother...

 

Maybe I said I thought she'd never find a man good enough for her and to be careful dating these older women or some nonsense because "once they get over 30, watch out..... They will get so picky and..."

 

He blurted out, "So did you nail her Fla. Man?"

 

I said, no, this wasn't that kind of relationship. She was religious, a virgin and how I respected that choice and was looking more to the future... He argued and said all male-female relationships involve sex.

 

He looked at another colleague and asked what he was thinking.

This other guy said, "I wonder what this conversation would be like if John Smith were here."

John was a Mormon and not known to be a skirt-chaser. Everyone laughed. I later told John that and he laughed.

 

The co. made everyone undergo long "sexual harassment" seminars. I heard the presenter say:

"A male supervisor and a female underling went on an out of state bus. trip and shared a hotel room. The woman upon return filed a harassment charge. The DA in the town was a law-and-order type of guy and pursued it. They both had to fly back several times for the trial...."

 

I thought, man, was this what happened? I asked but people at the office said, no, there wasn't a trial and neither had to fly back there, etc. Whew. Good to hear.

 

BTW, this isn't to take lightly any female who charges harassment, but it seems sometimes one of the parties can get screwed.