Intellectual incompatibility or learning disability?

[incognito25]

I've been friends with a guy for 6 years and over the past 2 years we grew closer and now we've been together for 6 months. In the past, I never really took notice of his grammar, spelling, or the other intellectual nuances that would be an indication of his capabilities. Now as of recently since we're practically living with each other, I've noticed it all. I'll give you some examples.

 

On his way over one night, I asked him if he could stop by the drugstore to pick up contact lens solution. When he arrived he said "I didn't know contact solution was so expensive!" I said "Did you check the generic brands?" To which he mumbled and then said "Yeah, but there weren't any." I knew he was lying and I also knew why he was lying and I felt a little embarrassed for him. However, I think it's better to learn than to stay ignorant so I gently said "Do you know what I mean by generic?" and when he said no, I told him the definition and he seemed to be okay with the fact I was teaching him something.

 

He also constantly makes common mistakes with the usage of their/they're/there, too/to, your/you're, etc. I've corrected him whenever I see him making these mistakes over the course of the past several months and now I'm beginning to question whether or not he can retain the information or is just being careless? In any case, it's bothersome because I believe his carelessness or inability to correct this has costed him some job opportunities.

 

I've helped him on his taxes recently and in wanting to encourage some independence, I told him to just fill out the basic information and I'll go over the rest with him. When he got back to me, I saw that he had already made an error and put his entire address on one line. I don't ever show my frustration, but sometimes it really gets to me because rather than focusing on the technical stuff about his errors, I try to encourage him to just be more careful and take his time so he won't make mistakes. So when I see things like this, it makes me wonder what is going through his mind, if he's even trying at all?

 

Now let me be clear here, we are both in our mid - late 20's and he does not present himself as a person who has a learning disability. He graduated H.S. on time and with a diploma, but he has no college education. He has always expressed his aversion to school, but I always took it as he's a brawns over brains kind of guy since he's said he enjoys hard labor over sitting at an office all day. He has a full time job as a security guard, works out every day, does not do drugs or smoke, and has good social skills. People tend to gravitate towards him because he's warm and easy to get along with.

 

My suspicion is that his issue is a combination of his upbringing and a possible learning disability. He was raised mainly by his mother who can barely say more than a few English words, and even though he was born in the U.S. and he began speaking both English and Spanish as a toddler, he still has a lot of trouble. I believe that being around his mother has affected the way he pronounces certain words, his grammar, and his spelling. She also never really encouraged him to think on his own and nurture his intellectual capabilities. They come from a family of manual laborers, which is fine, but I think all that influence stunted his potential in his childhood. His father who can speak decent english, expected really nothing of him except to be a hard worker. I get the feeling that if there is a learning disability, they would have never known because I suspect they wouldn't be able to tell or care enough to figure him out.

 

I don't have any intention of breaking up with him, but I care enough that I want to approach him on the subject of LD. He wants to go to our local community college and I'm guessing that in the process of placement testing, the subject of LD might come up. Also, while I do care for him, it's all starting to feel like a burden because I'm constantly having to explain myself or ask for clarification whenever we talk. He has a hard time following conversation flow sometimes and it causes a lot of confusion for the both of us. Due to his limited vocabulary, sometimes he has a hard time trying to explain even simple things and he becomes frustrated. He tends to use the excuse of "Sorry, I'm just tired," a lot whenever this happens. I'm also beginning to worry about the loneliness that might come because of his possible LD or our intellectual incompatibility. I can't thoroughly enjoy a movie with him when he makes an remark about an obvious scene that he grossly misinterpreted. I feel like I'm watching it alone, rather than sharing the experience with someone who is seeing what I'm seeing, hearing what I'm hearing, and being able to discuss it afterwards.

 

The only reason we made it this far as friends without me noticing is because I never really tried to have a full, deep, conversation with him. I always knew that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I never knew just how much until after we got together. Besides, I was attracted to his genuine kindness, gentleness, generous, and caring personality and not because of his brains. Now, I'm thinking that even though I didn't intially care about his intelligence, it is now starting to have an affect on me. I don't want to hurt his self-esteem, but I think I should talk to him about the possibility of LD. What do you think?

[DN]

I think you should leave him alone.

[lana111]

i am not seeing evidence of a LD, I just see someone without much education and growing up learning a language his parent does not know, so who would be there to correct him on a daily basis. im sure if things had went different growing up, he would be better.

 

btw, im no professional in this field... this is just what it seems like to me.

[Justnotsure]

Yeah, honestly, it seems like he's just not an intellectual. Could he be LD? Sure...but I think that's a pretty broad conclusion to draw. He may just be uneducated/uninterested.

 

At any rate, I'm not sure it's your place to say something. It sounds more like you want to be his teacher/savior than his girlfriend. It sounds like he has some great qualities -- are those enough for you, or do you need more (which, by the way is fine, but this just may not be the right relationship for you)?

 

While there is nothing wrong with growing with our partners and introducing them to new things (I learn from my boyfriend on a daily basis), when you set up a dynamic in which you're constantly "correcting" him and grading his "homework," I think you'll find that you're both frustrated and unhappy.

[LoveSoDeep]

I'm not sure there's any LD here...if he went to a decent school they would have caught it before he graduated HS and if they didn't it may be very slight. I havea feeling it has more to do with his upbringing and that his parents didn't speak English well enough to really help him...but actually that doesn't matter.

 

If you don't feel like you can have good deep conversations with him and that is something you need in a r/s then maybe you are intellectually incompatable. There's nothing wrong with that. I have friends who did what you are doing tried very hard to give the other person a try but really even if he does go back to school these basic things aren't going to change and neither of you are going to be happy....So, maybe you were better off as friends.

[DN]

I have just been reading the published diaries of a man and, in their notes, the editors of the book explained that they had to heavily edit and correct his spelling and grammar and sometimes guess at some written words that were indecipherable. He certainly was not inarticulate though.

 

Anyway there is a wikipedia article about him: link removed

[FreedomRing]

OP, I would watch your level of scrutiny here.

 

When I first started dating my boyfriend, I had many of your expressed concerns. Simple emails were difficult to read, missing words here and there....the whole gamut. I doubted his intelligence, tremendously. Until I paid a bit more attention, and realized there is a direct correlation between those who are second language english learners and a slight delay with grasping the english language completely.

 

My bf was born in America, but his parents were immigrants from the West Indies. I noticed that his mother wrote and spoke in the exact same manner, same for his father. You've got to realize this provides great difficulty for those who are trying to master a language that their parents haven't quite mastered themselves.

 

You say he's more of a physical laborer kinda guy. Why don't you try appreciating those kinds of things that he does/can do, or is naturally skilled at, that you might not be? You sound like me, who naturally has a knack for grammar, pronunciation, spelling, etc. That's not everyone. Be careful that you are not making him feel inferior.

 

I learned to appreciate that my man is the bomb with any kind of electronics and computer stuff....crap I couldn't for the life of me begin to understand NOR WANT TO.

 

Frankly those other traits: gentle, compassionate, understanding, go wayyyyy further in my book, then knowing the difference between "two/too/to" imo,

[jettison]

I think, just like with every other relationship partner, your ego is now in play. You see him as someone you could potentially be with for life, and that means that his deficiencies, at least when it comes to your ego, become your deficiencies. Children are the same way. Ever see a parent cheer at a soccer/baseball game? We get all wrapped up in our loved ones lives because they represent us to the world. By picking someone and saying "he is mine", you are essentially, and in some ways, saying, "this is what I'm all about."

 

And as a person who prides herself on her intelligence to some degree, you do not wish to convey, "I am all about illiteracy". All of the reasons you present in your thread make perfect sense, and their legit, but I bet that subconsciously, deep down, this is what it's all about for you. If this were a simple friend? You likely wouldn't mind so much. It's his life-partner status that makes this such a problem.

 

And realistically, just because you can identify this problem doesn't mean it will go away. It will likely plague you until the end of the relationship.

[pinkelephant]

It sounds like he might be dyslexic and therefore avoids school in general. One of my uncles is dyslexic, but he's extremely intelligent and while you can't talk to him about classically intellectual things, he can offer some insights that would blow most so-called intellectuals out of the water.

[Firiel]

In any case, it's bothersome because I believe his carelessness or inability to correct this has costed him some job opportunities.

 

Ah, the sweetness of irony.

 

Anyway, someone's technical grasp on the English language, especially in the little things like they're/their/there or you're/your, is not an indicator of intelligence. A lack of these skills also does not indicate a learning disability, especially when the person has been raised in a home where not much English has been spoken.

 

I usually find I can get a fair grasp of someone's intelligence by talking to them. If I can have an intelligent, witty conversation with someone, I see them as smart, regardless of the their GPA, use of grammar (to a certain extent), or whatever. My fiance is not a great writer, and it's not uncommon for him to make grammar mistakes. However, it's really easy to tell that he is very smart when talking to him... and he could school me in math/music/learning new languages.

 

However, if you don't feel intellectually challenged by him and that is something that is important to you, you might want to rethink the relationship. When I was dating my ex, my big worry was that I couldn't have a real, in-depth conversation with him. He wasn't that bright and he didn't care about the intellectual things I did. One of the things I love about my fiance is that I can talk to him about important subjects. Intellectual compatibility is very important in a relationship, and it can be tough when you don't have that.

[incognito25]

Thank you all for your advice and insight, but I feel that some of the things I said were either misconstrued or taken too far. It's likely my fault though because I wanted to write more in my original post, but it was getting too long.

 

@ Jettison. Identifying the problem, if there is one, will not make it go away, but I'm curious and ultimately, I'd want to help. Yes, if I am considering him to be a marriage material, of course he would be in a way, an extension of me, but I don't care about the image. I actually do care more for his well-being and I find no shame in it if he has an actual problem.

 

@lana111 @JustNotSure @FreedomRing. I tried to choose some examples that might represent my suspicion, but maybe I didn't choose the right ones. He has told me that English is not his second language since he learned it simultaneously along with Spanish. Also because he did not have a good relationship with both his parents, he hardly ever spoke to them, therefore his Spanish is actually more limited than his English. There are just some words he pronounces a certain way, but that is the least of my concern. My concern is he told me one time that he could not remember how to spell the word use and he became angry at himself. The fact that he becomes so overwhelmed by his own inability to recall simple words is what bothers me. I don't sit there and critique everything he does and I don't take on a scolding teacher tone. What I meant was, if I happened to see him making a mistake I'd literally just point at the word and smile at him and say "you forgot something!" He actually told me he appreciates when I do that because nobody ever gave a * * * * to correct him before. There was one incidence where he kept pronouncing the word chimera as chai-mera rather than kai-mera (don't ask why this word was said so frequently) almost every day for weeks. I corrected him almost every time and listened to him day after day still saying it wrong. So either he doesn't give * * * * , which is hard to believe because he seems to care, or he can't retain information WHICH can be part of LD.

 

He and I don't have in-depth conversations and whenever I attempt to, he is usually very silent and I worry whether he's comprehending what I'm saying. I'm not a show off, I don't use "big words," I just want to talk and sometimes it honestly feels like his silence means he's having trouble understanding. We get along because when I'm not trying to have those sorts of conversations with him, we tend to goof around and joke a lot. Laughter and being carefree seems to be a big theme in our relationship and yes, I would definitely take a gentle, kind, generous person like him over an intellectual any day.

 

However, I'm not talking about analyzing 18th century French literature, I could care less about that right now. I want to be able to at least talk to someone about current events or an epiphany I had about life the other day without losing them in the process. Which brings me to, is this because of his upbringing or because of a LD? The school system could have only done so much. I remember days when I didn't give a * * * * about doing work, what could the teacher do except for sending home notices or give you a F? Beyond that they can't force you to want to learn, which is also another reason why I'm wondering about all this. Does he not want to learn because he's having difficulty reading or comprehending? These are all valid indicators that he might actually have LD.

 

My stance is this, if I see someone who is struggling and I care about them, why would I sit idly by without expressing my concern? I am not scrutinizing him just to find something wrong with him, but there is something amiss. It is more than just grammatical and spelling errors, the forgetfulness, not being able to recall simple things you just learned, the silence during conversation, the misinterpretation of someone's tone. I feel that his quality of life could be drastically improved if he can apply himself or be accessible to education. He is insecure about himself and he doesn't bother to try to get help since he doesn't know where to go. He's said this himself, not me and I have not brought up LD to him whatsoever, but I've been thinking it.

[DN]

I am interested and fairly knowledgeable about history, politics and current events. But are these really so important? I think it is a good thing to know something about them in a democracy when one has a vote but beyond that the ordinary citizen doesn't have much impact on these issues unless he or she becomes an activist and most people are not - they might talk about the issues of the day but in the end it is just talk for most of us.

 

As for doing his taxes: many intelligent people use HR&R Block. Does it really matter that he doesn't know what 'generic' means?

 

But look at what you said about him here:

He has a full time job as a security guard, works out every day, does not do drugs or smoke, and has good social skills. People tend to gravitate towards him because he's warm and easy to get along with.

He has a job, looks after himself and has good social skills. People gravitate to him - and that is important. He might not care if they are liberal or conservative and apparently they don't care about that either. They don't seem to care that he might not know how to do his taxes or be able to talk about the intricacies of US foreign policy in the emerging nations.

 

They like him and want to be near him - because he is who he is. That seems to me to be a fairly desirable trait in a partner. You can always join a debating society or a political party or research and write a book of your own to sharpen your intellect.

[Notreadyet87]

If you can't have basic intellectual conversations with him and if that's something that you value in a relationship and is something that you NEED from your mate in order to move forward then I think you need to leave him.

That is the simplest answer that I can give you, because I don't see this working if having deep convo's is important to you. Also, I'd hate for you to talk with him and be thinking in the back of your mind that he can't comprehend you. You should be able to talk to your spouse about a variety of things that interest you, without feeling as if you may have to "dumb" things down or as if he can't understand you. In a relationship we are supposed to feel as though we can express ourselves with our spouse at LEAST understanding a bit about how we feel about a variety of things.

From what your saying he doesn't.

I also feel as if eventually these things that you feel you are helping him with, will eventually grow into the SAME things that you will become resentful about later on. Because no matter how you spell it out, essentially you are in a teacher-student relationship, where you feel in some way that intellectually he is beneath or behind you. Relationships aren't always going to be equal, but from what your saying, you can't even have conversations, watch movies, or do normal daily functions without seeing a way in which he is struggling.

Eventually if you have kids with this man, you have to consider whether you'd be okay teaching both your children and him.

I also feel as if, in some ways this is less about his background(though that is a factor) and more about him. Some people just aren't very intellecutal, intelligent, or quick learners. He may not have a LD, that just may be him. I'll put it this way there are several studies and research which proves that only FEW people are very intellectual, comprehensive, highly intelligent, and highly creative. Most people are not. Most people--though not dumb--are simply average learners, and in some cases only understand the "surface" of issues and topics.

He just may be one of them.

Eventually--though you see room for improvement and as if he has potential--there is only so much he'll accomplish in terms of thought and his approach to learning and that STILL may not be on par to what you'd like to see--this will lead to resentment one way or the other. UNLESS you accept him as he is.

Like I said this may not be important to you, and if it isn't that important(which I think it is) I can see this working. Otherwise you'll need to leave.

[Miss Firecracker]

Ah, the sweetness of irony.

 

Thanks for noticing.

 

And to OP, please understand that he will not get smarter for you.

[Batya33]

I agree with this and think you have to be very clear and painfully honest with yourself about your musts in a long term romantic relationship.

 

For myself I needed someone who was highly intelligent (preferably where I felt he was more intelligent than me, a turn-on for me personally), well-educated, enjoyed intellectual conversations and witty banter, and cared about proper grammar, spelling and higher education (even if he enjoyed using slang at times or made errors/typos). I'm not sure why you made the distinction between "intellectual" and "gentle and kind" - those qualities can co-exist very nicely together and the "kind, compassionate, person of integrity" - all essential to me as well.

I dated someone years ago who didn't care about grammar or higher education (he was a college graduate). His mother was a teacher and was so happy her son had met someone who did care - she hoped it would inspire him (he was in his early 30s at the time).

 

He was kind, thoughtful, we had great chemistry but after three months of dating I knew there wasn't a future and I hated the teacher-student dynamic because it made him feel badly that I cared about how he spoke and his level of articulateness. He later met someone who he said adored him. And that was exactly what he deserved, good for him, although I couldn't give that to him.

 

Love - very important - but respect and admiration for your SO - also essential in my opinion. If you want to help him, ask him if he wants your help with anything (he's an adult - he'll know if he needs help with anythng in his life) and if he says no, leave him alone and be a friend but not a partner unless you respect and admire him exactly the way he is.

[jettison]

Identifying the "problem" actually is important, and there is a problem. Not with each of you as individuals, but with the two of you in a relationship. You can't fundamentally change who a person is, and if you take up that task then in the end you'll be left with nothing more then frustration and resentment. Becoming your lover's mentor or teacher isn't a dynamic that's likely to play out very well in your relationship. He's likely already a one-down, and the shift in the power dynamic between the two of you will be exacerbated even more if he starts feeling like you don't respect him.

 

It is interesting that you have identified this "problem" in him as an individual. What if the situation were reversed? What if you were the clear one down, the intellectual subordinate, and entertained a partner who took issue with your clear lack of intelligence and wished to sharpen your cutting knife? How might that fly with you? And I don't know of anyone who craves that dynamic in an established lover, but maybe he's a rare exception.

 

In the end, if you decide to traverse this landscape, your relationship will take on that of a teacher/student, therapist/patient relationship, and it's not like we don't have mountains of evidence out there that will lend us hints on the relationships eventual conclusion. It's just never a good idea.

 

Now friendly nudges in a positive direction? harass him to go back to school? Hold his hand and take him to lectures and new hobbies? Sure, why not.

[Notreadyet87]

I agree with this.

 

OP I'd be careful to label this as a learning disability as well. An LD is something he would KNOW he has--even if his parents didn't notice it, teachers do. That is how my LD was discovered and treated. So most likely if it were a case of LD, he would know it.

 

I think what it boils down is personal values, and compatibility. There are plenty of women who would value this man, but it doesn't seem like overall at this point you do.

 

For me, a man who is intelligent, intellectual, logical and wise is VERY important. Though education as a whole is not as important to me, because I don't truly believe that college/university is the ONLY means for being intelligent, or logical(though for most it is). So for me, while I value education for myself and for those like myself who like to learn, I also value men who find other ways of learning if they aren't educated.

 

Some people wouldn't agree with my preference.

 

I think the same goes for you... Another woman may not see his inability to be intellectual as a negative, though you clearly do.

 

He seems like a good man, just not good for you.