Nice Guys NEVER Finish

[lonelynshy]

They do not finish 'last'. They just don't ever 'finish',except perhaps for a handful of guys. Here's why:

The general consensus is that 'nice' girl first goes for the bad boys,has her heart broken a few times and then in her mid or late 20's,she wisens up and goes for the nice guy. And they live happily ever after,right? WRONG.

 

Mr. Nice Guy is not a special pair of shoes in the closet. Mr.Nice Guy is not a friendly dog looking for attention. He is a human being with self-respect and dignity. While the nice girl loses her virginity in her teens and goes about having a jolly good time (except for the breakups,but that's still better than 24/7 loneliness),Mr.NG has to live with frozen dinners,TV shows and tons of loneliness. And of course,he's still a virgin.

 

So when NG loses his virginity to this girl,it's special to him. It's his first time and he's finally being appreciated. The whole experience is novel to him. For the girl,it's nothing new. Only the guy has changed and perhaps emotions are different. But she is at least moderately familiar with it all. Big anticlimax to NG's anticipation and excitement. After all,the whole thing about the 'first time' is the act of exploration. NG experiences the emotions of a kid being taken to a new amusement park and upon being taken there,his parents tell him they know which rides are best and drag him there. OR,they may humor the kid and tag along with him,but the kid can feel the flatness.

That's how NG feels. Even if the girl is ready to let him take the initiative,he feels like the kid. Now if this kid had another kid as a companion who was also new to the park,they would have the time of their life exploring each ride.

NG is no different. He wants a girl exactly like him. But such a girl does NOT exist. There are few girls who can claim to be virgins because they are shy. Shy girls are always hit on,but shy guys never are. Or maybe she's Catholic,but NG may not be and may not want one. Every way you cut it,NG is doomed. Either he has to get used to these issues,or just dump her and continue being lonely.

 

This is not meant to discourage any of the NG's out there. In fact,this is not meant for them. It is meant for the other men,and ALL the women who wonder why NG's are making such a fuss.

[xxatti]

????

[lonelynshy]

xxatti,can I help you with anything that you do not understand? Was I too cryptic?

[Caldus]

I think you have a few good points in there lonelynshy. I'm sure there is someone out there for you. I know what it's like, but you have to continue to be patient. Just stay positive about it. Good luck!

[xxatti]

xxatti,can I help you with anything that you do not understand? Was I too cryptic?

 

Not at all, I just dont get the point to your post. You're kind of playing the fiddle here , and most people already know about the idea you're hitting on about the "nice guy" persona. And just so you know, if you never finish, that means you DO finish last.

[tylercdurden2004]

Right O, Lonleynshy,

 

I realize you consider yourself a "nice" guy, but I think you really need to consider that the word "nice" is a subjective term and that what you consider "nice" others do not genuinely feel so. On top of it you nedd to define for yourself what "nice" is. Most people have in there life been burned by a guy or girl who went for someone the hurt person did not consider "nice" or "good". So get off your horse about others not understanding. Attraction goes further than someones morals, if thats what you are referring to as dictating "niceness". I wallowed for a bit in my teens as to why I a "nice" guy wasnt dating the most beautiful nicest, etc. girls and why Jim the Jock was with them all. You now what I found? My so called "niceness" was really my inability to be assertive. Assertiveness is different than being aggressive (like most arseholes are) and its different than being submissive (what most wimps are). We seem to place value on not being an arsehole as opposed to BEING assertive. Assertive means sometimes "not" being the "nice" guy. Life is full of tough decisions and sometimes that means you cant be the nice guy. Noone wants a lay about patsy, niceness does mot get you everywhere but assertiveness does. Assertiveness comes from being confident, confident in your abilities, confident in who you are and overall confidence in amking decisions. If you are a nice guy and wont make the tough decisions, whats to say when the going gets tough that you wont just lay down. No girl wants that, and the ones that do dont have a lot of confidence themselves. So go out do something to get yourself some confidence and quit whining about how "nice" you are and you know what girls will see that. I am assuming from your title and your post that you are experienceing this yourself. Well bitterness is not all that attractive so really look hard at yourself and I think you will see what you are mistaking for "niceness" other people see "submissive". i have gone through it, I see friends who go through it. Its nothing new or particular to you "nice" guys so please get off your high horse and do something about it.

 

Straight From the Hip,

 

Tyler

[xxatti]

Well said Tyler. Couldnt have said it better myself.

[tylercdurden2004]

Just being honest.

[Caldus]

tyler, I am really glad that you took the time to post that. I really needed to read that. Finally, someone gives me a good incentive to not be such a nice guy all of the time. I think I know what you're trying to say and I really do appreciate you posting that. I have never thought about it that way and I am glad that I am conscious of that now. I will keep that in mind from now on!

[tylercdurden2004]

Not a prob Caldus,

 

If you have any questions shoot.

[Tinkerbell]

lonelynshy that was quite the post, but I have to admit I don't agree with many of the things you've said. You're being waaaay too judemental, perhaps you've had bad experiences and this is why you've reacted like this, but I don't think there is a need to generalize all nice girls as women who lose their virginity at a young age and sleep around.

Not only is that disrespectful, but it's also false.

When a "nice guy" comes around, if a woman is bright she'll realise it and she'll grasp the opportunity...Not all "nice girls" are stupid you know, perhaps you should be meeting some new people, 'cause you've obviously encountered the wrong sort.

If you want to meet genuinely nice girls I suggest you quit offending them by making such posts that display them as ignorant fools.

Girls only go for the bad guys to a certain degree, you don't see us all marrying gangsters, now do you? There comes a certain point in a woman's life where she usually realises that it's time to quit with the games and settle down; find a man she can start a family with. And it's the same for men, after a certain amount of flings he realises he wants more.

Next time you discuss this topic, please be a little open-minded and less insulting.

[Mr. Good Man]

tylercdurden2004 & Tinkerbell,

 

Both of you made valid points and I hope lonelynshy takes a step back and be a little more objective.

 

But I must repeat what was said because it is so important for the Nice Guys to understand....you must be confident in yourself, what you have to offer and stand for something.

 

Do not allow your "niceness" to cause you to become a wimp and give women everything they desire. There must be some fun, surprises, struggle, etc. to make her feel it's worth the wait and effort.

 

Finally, please be a little more assertive. You'll be amazed how many women would love for a man to take control once in a while (in a respectful way) and follow his lead.

 

Most women want to know their man is a "man" but sensitive as well. It's all a balancing game. And to be honest nice guys tend to have a difficult time balancing the two.

 

But once you figure out how to do it you're off to the moon!

[eviljedi]

I think lonelynshy's point isn't really to do with nice guys finishing last, but why do girls always go for the 'bad' guys? I see it in school, all the cool guys I know are single (except one or two) yet all the complete *beep* have girlfriends! It makes no sense the girls always complain about them, they cheat on them, but yet they keep going back. Why do girls do this, is it because these are the only guys who hit on them? Are the so called 'nice' guys really just the shy guys? I know myself im not really that nice a guy, but when im nervous I just go along with what others say, I guess I take the easy way out. 8-[

[lonelynshy]

Tinkerbell,there appears to be a misunderstanding. It was not my intention to denigrate girls but to point out that nice guys are often taken as whining losers even though the situation they are in is not entirely their fault.

 

You said "There comes a certain point in a woman's life where she usually realises that it's time to quit with the games and settle down; find a man she can start a family with. And it's the same for men, after a certain amount of flings he realises he wants more. "

 

Well,my point was that nice guys don't have the luxury of these flings. Not even one. I do NOT mean that having a fling makes a nice guy or girl become 'bad',but just that being shy and submissive gives guys no chances of ever going on a date. 90% of them never have even one date before being picked by the nice girl in their late 20's. With shy and submissive girls,at least 50% of them have no problem getting a date. In this respect,life is intrinsically unfair to shy men. My main point was that nice guys have a legitimate grouse against society and women and this is just fact. It has nothing to do with insults. After all,statistics bear me out if you compare the number of shy virgin women vs shy virgin guys. There are just not enough girls to go around.

 

To put it in a nutshell,no matter how nice the girl is,the nice guy always feels that life has treated him wrongly and unfairly. Nine to one chances are that the nice girl is not as inexperienced as him and this makes him feel like cheating on her to even the score. Of course,now the nice guy is no longer nice but he can't be blamed. Being nice is not a permanent or guaranteed trait.

 

For what it's worth,I have never thought of having games for a while and then 'settling down'. Right from the time I was an adolescent,I have daydreamed of settling down and starting a family. I am not boasting but I just want to make a point. Why is it that men like me HAVE to wait while the women go about having flings? This makes us feel pressured to have flings too but it's against our nature to do so,thereforeeee our mental torment is expressed in unpleasant ways like cheating and ranting on forums.

[loneguy]

I agree that being assertive is important to get thorugh the challenges of life, but i have to say that so called 'nice guys' are treated unfairly to a certain extent. I guess that the fruits of not being immoral will sprout later, if we have been patient for such a long time, why not a little more. Lets hope logic won't defy us. We'll get something out of whatever we've been through.

 

The only problem with nice guys is that they won't neccessarily 'stand up' for the right thing, for the truth they believe in, they won't act assertive. If we get that assertiveness to defend the truth, I am sure nice guys will be the best guys.

[Mix Maxster]

You wanna know why a lot of girls go for the ***es? I am no expert of course (dont' we all have to say that lol) but MY reason for believing that has to come with this. I DO NOT believe for a second that a girl wants a desperate guy clinging to her and the chances are that the nice guys have a hard time GOING for something because they're just TOO nice and so they always let someone take advantage of them... meaning that if someone DOES come along, they're more likely to do WHATEVER it takes to keep that person, whether it be GO EXTREMELY out of their way to do something for them or what have you and that makes the girl wonder if maybe he's a little too clingy. Sometimes girls like a "pet", but I'm honestly guessing they do not because they want a guy who will stand up for himself because they dont' want to be doing everything themselves for one and second they want to rely on the guy to defend them as well. Not saying a Nice guy couldn't do that, but if he's eating frozen dinners and spending his days alone, chances are he'll end up being clingy to the first girl that comes around.... it's not that girls LOVE being cheated on or accept it, but rather admire the guys initiative to go for what he wants and to stand up for himself. As dumb as that sounds, no one wants a desperate person coming after them.

[justlikeyou]

After all,statistics bear me out if you compare the number of shy virgin women vs shy virgin guys. There are just not enough girls to go around.

 

Hi lonelynshy. Just to let you know. If you are talking about statistics, then I have to say by the tme people are married - approximately 1/2 girls was a virgin, 1/5 guys was. So, you please tell me, what do you mean there are not enough nice sweet shy virgin girls to go around? According to this, a guy who is currently a virgin could sleep with about two and a half girls before he gets married. So, my man, get out there and start macking it.

[Outlaw2747]

Wish I had come to this post earlier....I agree with nearly everyone here. Everyone is correct to a certain degree. But I agree alot with lonelynshy. Why? Despite the fact I have a gf now I CAN RELATE! But I need to set something straight here. Let's get this "nice guys are shy and weak" business out of your heads. There is a difference between a nice guy and an insecure one. It is okay for either to be shy but here's the scoop. A nice OR good guy is characterized by being able to treat a WORTHY woman the way she wants to be treated. Sure he can have a little shyness but I know alot of guys who respect women but have confidence and are very happy most of the time. They love girls in a respectful way but DON'T let girls walk all over them like they so often do with a good guy (despite that's the person they look for). But then they move on, keeping their heads up, until they find a girl who will treat them the same. Now you have the INSECURE nice guy. He treats women the same as the aformentioned just plain ol' nice guy. But he is VERY shy, has little or NO confidence, and once he gets a girl's attention, is usually somewhat obsessive. The girl, thus loses respect for him because he seems vulnerable and weak and it is at that moment when a girl will walk all over him like a doormat. As a result, this guy winds up somehow getting himself emotionally hurt and winds up getting cheated on or broken up. Now he is a mess once again but until he gets rid of the weights holding him down he will ALWAYS finish last.

 

I consider myself a mixture of the two. I get my depresed stages but then move on. I treat females with the utmost respect but not too long ago I seen nearly all girls as evil and only good for friends, but yet in the back of my head....I knew SHE was out there and would take any opportunity that knocks. And guess what......I found her. All i am saying guys, is have faith.....she is out there. And quit thinking ALL nice guys are weak and wimpy, because they are not! That's all, I'll be happy to respond if the time arises people. Thanks for reading.

[tylercdurden2004]

I guess the main thing is to define what "Nice" means. I get the feeling from many a guy and from my own experience that many confuse "nice" with insecure, passive etc. And in my experience it is the guys who whine about it (insecurity) that are confusing these things with being "nice". I understand that there are many women out there that date #$%^s and always seem to find these guys over and over again, while passing up on great guys. Thats life and in the end you have to ask yourself are these the girls you really want. The term "nice" is completely subjective and totally open to interpretation and like i said in my previous post what you think is "nice" another person does not. I am assuming that people who consider themselves "nice guys" finishing last, are looking for girls or attracted to girls that are "not nice" otherwise they wouldnt b*@*@ about it. So my advice would be to look for the nice girl. Yes not all of us get girls falling into our laps, it takes time and patience and effort to find the right ones. But please dont slag women because they wont date you and dont slag men who choose to live differently than you. Just worry about yourself and making yourself appealing to those you would like to be with. You have to be sympathetic that life is a learning experiecne and no one is born a perfect package; people have to make mistakes to learn and that might mean passing up the "perfect" guy for a loser and learing the hard way. There are many a great girl out there and some are just waiting to be dicovered so to say. I think a little understanding is needed when it comes to why girls date who they do. Lastly I am sorry but to many guys I have met that whine about being "nice" and finishing last arent really as "nice" as they think, bitterness hardens the heart.

 

Cheers

 

Tyler

[Outlaw2747]

Hey, even when I did have a gf, I was still somewhat skeptical of female's motives. Now that I am single again (I don't really wanna talk about it.) I am even more skeptical because just when you think you have found your one, they take off the mask and game over....AGAIN. But I am going to contratict myself a little from a very old post. When I said nice guys are not shy and wimpy, I should have omitted out the shy part. Some nice guys are shy but not to the point where they are totally helpless. My apologies on that error folks. But as I have said before, there is a difference between a nice guy and a insecure one. But I have plenty of reason to be in a shell.....however, i will take the opportunity to be with someone I feel is right if given a chance. I haven't abandoned all hope but m chances of ever being with a special someone or getting one and keeping her are 1,000,000,000 to 1. hey, I'm not putting myself down, i just tell the truth. I am not going to hide the truth with blind optimism because then I would be fooling myself.

[wikcrs]

Why dont shy people then just go out, act assertive, and get girls?

 

It's worth a shot, no?

[Outlaw2747]

Shy people do get out and meet girls, some have better techniques than others. Some try to show confidence, others remain in a place where they hope to be noticed where they can also obseve females and others just stay out the way altogether. Not all shy guys stay indoors and don't bother girls. Some are rather inconspicuous about it.