Is it worth staying a "nice guy"...

[jettison]

So what works for a super-famous, super-attractive celebrity should work for you too? Hmmmmm... something tells me there's something missing from the logic here.

 

There is such a thing as "fake it till you make it", but it only goes so far.

[jettison]

This is not about "faking" and putting on a false front. If I am not a confident man then I have to work at being more confident instead of telling myself that I am only faking it and eventually my true colors would come out. Just like how some women do not give sex for a while I think men should not give their love and affection for a while. I do not see anything wrong with it. Most bad guys would never care and fall in love with a woman soon.

 

Show me a man who won't give his love or affection, and I'll show you a man who is scared of women and scared of rejection.

[Cognitive_Canine]

When girls say "bad boy", guys typically think that the girl means "jerk".

 

When girls say "bad boy", girls actually mean "an assertive man who can take care of himself and will be lots of fun while still being morally strong. A guy that has a darkness about him that isn't in any way threatening but, instead, very interesting and sexy".

 

When your average guy sees one of those guys described above, they think "all girls want is jerks!"

 

When a guy calls himself a "nice guy" he typically isn't a nice guy.

 

Do you really want this girl or do you just want a girlfriend to have a girlfriend? I'm guessing it's the latter. People can tell when you are just using them to fill a void and will avoid you like the plague.

 

If you absolutely have to change yourself into a "bad boy" to 'get the girl of your dreams', don't think "be a jerk", think Jason Statham.

 

 

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[Scorpion Fury]

Bags of sand? how does that metaphor work exactly? I'm curious...like a pane of glass

 

LOL. I don't why I always assume people know what weird things I'm talking about. It's from "40 Year old Virgin". He was a virgin but he was trying to lie and say he did all these girls and he felt one up and her boobs felt like "bags of sand" and the other guys were like, "Huh?? Bags of sand??" Cause, you know, boobs don't feel like bags of sand. And then they figured out he was a virgin.

[Malakh]

So what works for a super-famous, super-attractive celebrity should work for you too? Hmmmmm... something tells me there's something missing from the logic here.

 

There is such a thing as "fake it till you make it", but it only goes so far.

 

I did not say that you got to be a celebrity like Ashton Kutcher to get girls. Geez!

 

Show me a man who won't give his love or affection, and I'll show you a man who is scared of women and scared of rejection.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I wrote:

 

I think men should not give their love and affection for a while

 

If you read that as "I think men should not give their love and affection" then that is not my problem

[GoneCrazy]

Awesome actor, he was great in the movie snatch

 

 

In the end i rather be the guy with confidence then the 'bad boy'

[jettison]

I did not say that you got to be a celebrity like Ashton Kutcher to get girls. Geez!

 

 

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I wrote:

 

 

 

If you read that as "I think men should not give their love and affection" then that is not my problem

 

Listen... If you're holding out on a woman because you're trying to play a game to win her affection then she's going to sense it... Unless you're trying to court an idiot. In that case, by all means, lay on or off the charms as little or as often as you'd like and "keep them on their toes". A smart woman? She's going to see through all this nonsense and include "now here's a man who can't just get a woman. He has to resort to trickery to attempt to get on my good side. No thanks."

[Malakh]

Listen... If you're holding out on a woman because you're trying to play a game to win her affection then she's going to sense it... Unless you're trying to court an idiot. In that case, by all means, lay on or off the charms as little or as often as you'd like and "keep them on their toes". A smart woman? She's going to see through all this nonsense and include "now here's a man who can't just get a woman. He has to resort to trickery to attempt to get on my good side. No thanks."

 

Where did I say about holding out on a woman? I don't think you understood my post.

 

Are you going to say to a woman "Listen... If you're holding out on sex because you're trying to play a game to win his affection then he's going to sense it... Unless you're trying to court an idiot" ??

[Cognitive_Canine]

Where did I say about holding out on a woman? I don't think you understood my post.

 

Are you going to say to a woman "Listen... If you're holding out on sex because you're trying to play a game to win his affection then he's going to sense it... Unless you're trying to court an idiot" ??

 

I would say that to women.

[Malakh]

I would say that to women.

 

So basically the guy has to say "I Love You" and the girl has to have sex on the first date??? Nice. May be I have different opinion on this.

[jettison]

Where did I say about holding out on a woman? I don't think you understood my post.

 

Are you going to say to a woman "Listen... If you're holding out on sex because you're trying to play a game to win his affection then he's going to sense it... Unless you're trying to court an idiot" ??

 

I wasn't talking about sex. I was talking about holding out on anything at all. If you're playing a game, and you think you're winning points, you're likely not all that clever. Women are a lot smarter then that.

 

Want to "outsmart" a woman? Be completely open, and tell the truth at every single turn. She'll have no idea what to do with you.

[Cognitive_Canine]

So basically the guy has to say "I Love You" and the girl has to have sex on the first date??? Nice. May be I have different opinion on this.

 

I don't know where that conclusion came from.

 

I was trying to say that the women should only hold off on sex until they feel comfortable having sex with that person. They shouldn't do it to make the guy chase after them or to play games with them by teasing them. They should have sex (and this goes for both sexes) when they want to and trust their partner. Using sex to get affection/love is a stupid idea.

[greywolf]

So basically the guy has to say "I Love You" and the girl has to have sex on the first date??? Nice. May be I have different opinion on this.

 

huh? I don't really get where this came from.

[Malakh]

Want to "outsmart" a woman? Be completely open, and tell the truth at every single turn. She'll have no idea what to do with you.

 

Thanks man. I have already been called "clingy" and "predictable" for telling the girl how I felt the moment I felt it. I do not need such "pleasant" experiences any more in my life.

 

May be you have a different opinion about this and that is fine with me.

[jettison]

Thanks man. I have already been called "clingy" and "predictable" for telling the girl how I felt the moment I felt it. I do not need such "pleasant" experiences any more in my life.

 

May be you have a different opinion about this and that is fine with me.

 

If a woman isn't ready to hear what you have to say, or doesn't feel the same way, then your over-the-top feelings are going to come off as desperate or clingy. It will look like you are trying to fit her into a mold, or else trying to tell her what she wants to hear.

 

If you don't know someone very well, telling them they have nice eyes or a nice ass goes over WAY better then "you're my dream girl", or "you're just amazing." Why? Because they can understand how the first sentiments are actually the truth. The second set of sentiments just come accross like you're projecting because you don't even know her well enough yet.

 

Women don't want to be showered with compliments so much as they'd love to hear a compliment that is truthful out of you and actually deserved. They know very well when you're trying to pull their leg on any level at all.

 

Truth is: Damn, when I saw you walk, I had this quick fantasy about taking off all of your clothes, drinking a 5th of vodka, and having my way with you in a broom closet.

 

She'll know you're telling the truth.

 

False is: When I first saw you, my heart skipped a beat. It felt like destiny! I could totally see myself falling for you!

 

She'll know that you're trying to say things just to win her over.

 

First sentiment, kind of crass and could be rude.

Second sentiment, kind of poetic and plausibly nice.

 

Who wins? First set of sentiments.

 

Why? It's not because that will make you either a jerk or a bad boy. It's because it will make you honest and honest unbelievably, over-the-top sexy to women who are just freaking sick of playing so many games.

[JusticeLaw9]

...when you know that the specific girl you like prefers "bad guys", and it is very likely that you can do something with her if you quit trying to be nice?

 

Are you really being that "nice guy" or are just being your calm, laidback respectful self. I ask that question because there's a difference. Either or can be mistaken sometime, that's why it's important to be yourself. But let me ask you this: If she really has the "I want a jerk" mentality, do you really want to be bothered with a woman like that? And not all women want jerks, but you definitely don't want to get caught up with a woman who doesn't no any better than to think like that.

[Blue Spiral]

I'll be the one to take a stand against the "don't trust a guy that calls himself a 'nice guy' " mentality. I know that the label is often used by guys that are actually resentful and/or passive-aggressive, but if you really are nice, you should absolutely call yourself that. I think that valuing niceness is a lot better than valuing confidence, as the latter is morally neutral, while the former is not.

 

Being confident doesn't make you a good or bad person, it just means you believe in yourself (whether it's for a logical or illogical reason). I'd rather be with someone that defines themselves based on how they treat others.

[FathomFear]

"Bad boys" and the women who like them tend to have similar traits. Ie, they're usually physically attractive but almost always shallow and below average intelligence.

 

So, if it's just a one-night stand you're after and you couldn't care less about the person's personality, then sure--pretend to be a "bad boy". But if you want a relationship you should be yourself. Besides, even if you were to rope such a person into a relationship you'd probably be miserable anyway every second you're outside of the bedroom.

[galaxy71]

"Bad boys" and the women who like them tend to have similar traits. Ie, they're usually physically attractive but almost always shallow and below average intelligence.

 

There are plenty of women who have been involved in relationships with guys who are not choir boys. Men and women are a mixture of good and bad. When a lot of women met these "bad boys", they seemed to be good guys. By the time that the women realized that these guys were bad boys, they had invested so much time and energy that it was difficult to break it off. So somebody made a bad relationship choice. Tough marbles for them. People make bad decisions, it doesn't make them dumb. Instead, it makes them flawed like everybody else. Who here hasn't done something that bad or terrible. We are all human So the "nice" guys who refuses to use the good advice offered to them are social geniues. While celebrities, athletes, and politicians who have a weakness for lust are dumb.

 

So, if it's just a one-night stand you're after and you couldn't care less about the person's personality, then sure--pretend to be a "bad boy". But if you want a relationship you should be yourself. Besides, even if you were to rope such a person into a relationship you'd probably be miserable anyway every second you're outside of the bedroom.

Unfortunately, a lot of good guys don't get any results from being themselves. Not all guys are naturally athletic, aggressive, and charming. For a lot of nice guys, they get ignored when they are being themselves as they are too shy, too quiet, too serious, too isolated, or too generic. Women want to be in a relationship with a guy that they are attracted to. If she isn't attracted to him, she will ignore him no matter how good or admirable the guy is. Look at all these threads written by smart, professional men who have a hard time getting a date. There are also plenty of threads written by shy, lonely people that are just plain depressing to read. I really don't know if being yourself is working for those type of guys. When I read the advice "be yourself", I really wonder whether a beautiful supermodel will pick a shy, nerdy guy who is being himself over an aggressive, handsome, celebrity who is not afraid to go after what he wants. Why should I work on improving my fashion or practicing my conversation skills, if I could pull supermodels and professional cheerleaders by being the same self that I already am? Being yourself might work for that guy who has the gift of gab, but I don't know if it will work for some guy who is really shy and passive.

[FathomFear]

When I read the advice "be yourself", I really wonder whether a beautiful supermodel will pick a shy, nerdy guy who is being himself over an aggressive, handsome, celebrity who is not afraid to go after what he wants. Why should I work on improving my fashion or practicing my conversation skills, if I could pull supermodels and professional cheerleaders by being the same self that I already am? Being yourself might work for that guy who has the gift of gab, but I don't know if it will work for some guy who is really shy and passive.

 

I think a large part of it comes down to managing expectations. The whole idea of having a "supermodel" as your ultimate objective is a bit far-fetched, IMO. The world isn't exactly overflowing with models, male or female, so if you set that up as an ideal you're likely going to end up disappointed.

 

Although I completely agree that "Be yourself" sounds like schlocky, cliche advice, I'm not sure there's an alternative if you're in the market for a relationship. What are you proposing--indefinitely pretending to be someone you're not?

 

I have quite a few straight male friends who I would classify as shy/passive, and while some of them are single some of them are not. The ones in relationships are with women much like themselves (shy/passive) whom they met through mutual friends, etc. Is it as glamorous as picking up some attractive woman at a bar as you ooze machismo? No. Is it a realistic expectation given the circumstances? Probably.

[Malakh]

Very well said!

 

This is what I have been trying to tell the OP. There is nothing wrong with improving your game and get the girl you want. I am not suggesting to put on a fake persona but rather improve your game. Those guys that are being described as "bad guys" knowingly or unknowingly are doing the right thing and they get the girls.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Plenty of my guy friends moan about how girls don't like nice guys.

 

One is kind of a pervert.

Another is the biggest whiner I have ever met.

A third only goes for shallow, 10's and then complains that they won't overlook his physical flaws (when he completely ignores any unnattractive girl that comes on to him).

A fourth practically stalks the girls he likes.

A fifth acts like a real jerk when he drinks....but he never remembers any of what happens while he drinks. The girl ignores him the day after a night out on the town and he thinks "god, that girl's a witch!"

 

I love 'em, but I'm happy as hell that they aren't trying to date me. And those are just the dating flaws that I KNOW about in my guy friends. The list of problems my girlfriends have are just as bad, if not worse. I give them suggestions here and there but they never change their ways. And yes, they call themselves "nice guys". They are nice guys for the most part, but I will pretty much garauntee that none of their dates see them that way. They can be absolutely horrible around girls they like.

 

Meanwhile my boyfriend is quite an upstanding citizen and he has never considered himself a "nice guy". But, he does have a really twisted view of himself.

[Pressfit]

It's a juvenile term used by people that don't really know what they're talking about.

True bad boys, for the most part, are never around long enough for a relationship and usually end up in the slammer.. or worse. That's why it has the name.

Somebody tells you they like bad boys; what they are actually saying is that they find you boring or uninteresting.

Just be yourself and think for yourself.

[matius]

Pressfit, can also mean a 30,000 dollar millionaire or a playa cuz these girls like misuse abuse neglect and reject, or the reverse. Just a game is all... A thrill if ya got nothin' else... improving your game in my opinion has nothing to do with the nice guy vs. Bad boy arg.

[Timbone]

You might want to read No More Mr. Nice Guy, it's a book for recovering nice guys like myself.

 

The thing is that Nice Guy has negatives associated to it like being a pushover, not knowing what you want, fine with being led instead of being a leader, and not putting up a fight for what he wants or believes in. Those traits are not traits that women are actively looking for. When some women hear Nice Guy, those traits pop into their heads.

 

The thing is there is a fine line with being a jerk, being a nice guy, and just looking out for number One and not being a pushover. Just look out for yourself, that seems to work well.

 

The book was really pretty interesting and eye-opening, and was worth the purchase.