rich 1517 - its done

[ziggystar]

rich,

 

strong1 is right. don't over do the books or even this site. it starts to have a reverse effect after a while. take a break and live life.

 

i started to read about too many other's situation on these forums, to the point where i'm finding bits here and there that are like my situation (ie. your situation). and while the aftermath of our situations are similar, they really aren't. 2 diffeent people, 2 different situations. the problem in over reading these books and situations is that you start to lose track of the reality of your situation. it's almost as if you start superimposing what a book describes in general terms to your situation or the outcome of somebody elses relationship into a prediction of the outcome of yours. be careful. especially a lot of these relationship books often like to blame somebody (ie. the other person), and unfortunately, that's just too easy to give away that responsibility.

[GeeCee]

Oh Rich

 

I know that this is hurting you tooo much.

 

I think that you should give the self-help books a rest. You have done all that you could have done. And done it well. You are in a good position, you have dalliances to give you some light relief. I think that the general consensus is that you should take up these offers.

 

There is no more that you can do to get the ex back. Hard as it may be, you have laid all your cards on the table, and it is just possible that your ex cares deeply for you, but will not want more in terms of a relationship with you. Yes, this is her loss, but unfortunately, yours too.

 

You have been living in this cycle of analysis now for three months, and it has become a way of life for you. But it is not healthy, you need to try and stop now. I don't think that there is any more that you can do. If she is ever going to come back to you and be what you want, she has to do that of her own accord. You cannot play certain moves now to force her to do that.

 

I am thinking of you.

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

Wow. thats the reaction i had to your posts Ziggy, Strong 1, and GeeCee. where did you guys develop such collective wisdom? wait, i know pain. i mean the compliment, you are loaning me strength. thanks, and your insights and expereince are great.

 

your posts were what i needed. i am really hurting over the opportunities lost now. she and her son are doing a weekend thing, and i am having the forever thing happening. "ill never be there".

 

your points are great.

 

1. dont overdue books, forum -> very true, was staying off posting, the book unfortunately was a pattern of hope. the books arent about blame, the opposite, they have been about emotionally owning during a seperation, but gee that takes two dont it?

 

2. i did right. yeah i did, even i cant fault that. i showed up in the face of no hope many times without breaking down, pressuring, anger or conditions until the last. but i couldnt really 100% relax, thats the result of the conditions she set. so yeah my reasons to her that it would fail are sound too.

 

3. breather is good for us both. absolutely. this is the time i do take care of myself, have a coke and a smile. still want to quit smoking though. too expensive.

 

4. pull myself together. yes strong one, keep it coming. donit live in hope and dont live in no hope. its weird though i become the dumper now in a way. imagine if your ex came back and wanted to date (whatever conditions) and you said basically, no.

 

5. did all i could to get her back. its true too. i think i approached it very well. it may have been too late, or, or, or. but the hope others should have in getting someback is there is reasonably good experience to be taken from in how i approached it. my actions were based on a combination of impulse control, listening and providing support, attention and boundaries. read the actions i did, not the vents so much and you will see that commong thread.

 

i almost called her last night to say "sorry about the dating comment, it was reactive and manipulative." of course i didnt, but thats the point of staying busy, cant over think.

 

and yes stop analyzing. i have overdone it, used tactics to win her back that required a lot of pre thought. now i have to drop it. its treating obssession and longing all over again. meditate, work out, breathe. yep all over again. the key is to never, ever act on an impulse or obsessive thought. it never goes right.

 

thanks guys. i appreciate it, please keep it coming. i do dump here but dont read too far into what i say, i learned to let go of my worst and best feelings and hopes here. the way i act in the world is very different.

[rich_1517]

hmmm. i like that i start a lot of my posts that way.

 

i come hear to emotionally umm, well, vomit. i need to and to do the analysis so that in the moment of choices im not stuck. if i hadnt used this site to locate my boundaries and establishing respect as an absolute, i wouldnt have been able to leave on the nights she asked me stay. man was i giving away power like so many pennies.

[rich_1517]

well here we go AGAIN. she called i did not answer. because umm i dont know what to say. im sure she is either going to say something meaningless or invite me to do something with her and her son.

 

i want her to turn around, i really do. i dont want to be ice cold but i have to be firm right? so what the hell is my boundary line and how do i say it?

 

having already learned she isnt emotionally aware right now. and just reacting. this is way too soon for anything significant. i have to block her out for few days at least. then call back I packed my weekend and of course left my cell home. which isnt a bad idea at all, make it true. i just need a couple more days right now. we will need at least a couple weeks at a guess. I GET IT NOW, wow.

 

the hard thing is closeness as friends is important, but i want it a little closer than that LIKE BY A WHOLE FREAKING LOT! sorry lost it. point is i can outlast her, i dont want her to give up hope, but she cant have the cake and sweet bits too.

 

crap i may have to do the "i was busy" "what day?, shoot cant" "tonight? um not a good idea"

 

god i hate this. i want her back but i have to find a way to keep seperation in for it to work i think. she has to "feel" my loss to feel more. damn damn damn

[strong1]

I agree. Best to collect your thoughts before calling her back. Besides..you don't want to get into 'doormat' mode by answering or returning her call right away.

 

Perfectly legit for you to take time getting back to her. It's not a game..it's just you centering yourself. You owe yourself that after all your hard work.

 

Are you considering, when you call her back..being chipper/chatty..and, if she asks you out...you say 'I need a few weeks to ..collect myself/think about this...whatever.' Because you really do I think. You both do need some time where you aren't waiting for an IM or for the phone to ring. Your guard is still up and you are too jittery (understandable.) How about a little Rich time for two weeks?

 

I think you seem a bit better tonight. Still sad..but getting back on your feet. Right? The 'bad' moments still happen....but they are less and less. Doesn't mean we love our ex's less..just means we are better at managing our emotions. And that can only help EVERYONE AND the process.

[rich_1517]

yes strong one i am better. i decided to make yesterday a sad one. i realised that rushing to date could hurt me or set me back. so i scoured the web for songs, you know sad ones.

 

then my roomate from england invites me to go to the pub (shes english) so i say sure. had a great time.

 

im going to try to balance it out, some sad, some action, some reflection, some physical exertion. treating the problem.

 

i have to prepare myself now and accept it as over some, i cant use the words yet or agree with someone who talks about better off kind of conversation. i still love her a lot.

 

but i really am getting to a point of desiring out of sight out of mind, meaning i really dont want to see her with those apathetic feelings going on now. i did it thanks, it hurts.

 

it will make it hard to talk to her now, that fear. she doesnt realise how selfish it is to take what cant be returned, she has no right to my love at this moment. and yes im sticking to that. i will have weak moments, i will want to call, i will compare other women to her, etc. but it will only set me back.

 

the only piece i have to keep half an eye on, is her fear now. if she starts to turn a corner but thinks i have moved on she may not take a chance. i know what some of you are thinking right now.. too bad for her... but if she makes a move towards me i have to encourage it without changing my conditions.

 

yeah two weeks, three i dont know. i may let contact (phone) happen later this week just to clear up the one comment, then be upbeat, etc, etc. then get off, even if she wants to talk.

 

i dont want to make her swing as i did, but yes we both need time to stop trying so damn hard. i think she felt she was trying too, that dates were effort for her to show up for this guy who loved her, and maybe, blah blah. but maybe with no effort happening true seperation can occur.

 

im not optimistic about it, she will choose the easier path, i represent old feelings and work to her. she will justify now that she was right in her choices. for whatever reason she blocked me out, consciously or unconsciously. its kind of selfish to show up with that going on. that part i will have to learn over time to forgive.

[ziggystar]

hey rich,

 

here's another point which could give more perspective. you obviously feel that she wasn't very emotionally supportive to you. and that her fears keep her running away. i think she has her hands full. she has a son who needs her emotional support. she needs to be able to emotionally supportive of herself. so she has 2 people she's responsible for. you would make 3. i know how you feel. you wish she would stop running away from her fear which in turn stops her from running away from you. so that you can be there for her and help her. although that sounds altruistic, but that's an emotional need to be needed. she has to be able to go through this herself on her own terms, not your terms. and you need to get back to getting yourself back together again.

 

sometimes, i think we give too much in hopes of getting the same back. but sometimes we give more then should be given and that place things out of balance. if your love is given way too soon or too much, you have given more value then it's worth. but the problem is that we expect the same back, but we're not going to get the same back, because we've over valued it. it is selfish to over give, whether that be love or anything else. my analogy is: i'll buy your shoes for 10,000 dollars. you say sure, but question my value system. but now i want you to buy my shoes for 10,000 dollars. you would feel suckered.

 

i saying all this because as you, i'm in a similar situation. i couldn't really see that i didn't anything wrong in the relationship. that my ex was the one who couldn't face up to her fears and problems. and i was taken for granted. but her problems and issues are for her to fix, not me. and in reality, part of what drove her to run was my over dependence of needing to be there for her, and hoping she would return that love and care. that is wrong on my part, that's a conditional state of being. i was trying to sucker her in to my love value system, which is off kilter.

 

our exes owe us nothing. right or wrong, their choices will always be right for them. it's free will. and it doesn't change what we have to do for ourselves and grow.

[rich_1517]

hey Ziggy

very good points. at least about her emotional needs. she doesnt even know shes overwhelmed or wont openly acknowledge it. this is where being someone who refuses to let lifes ups and downs gets you pays off for her. she actually is more or less ok.

 

i didnt set out to give to get back same. i gave intentionally without condition knowing i could lose all. the idea was to give her support and be there. i am not angry about that. i knew what i was doing, it was to try and win us back.

 

the part i was saying about you shouldnt show up if you know your feelings arent there was what was making me mad. its selfish, i have been there and sometimes knowingly an unknowingly done it. its nice to be wanted and loved. so i can see its hard for her to let me go. but if you dont want what i want dont take what you cant return. so i had to do it myself, not let her take it.

 

about being needed? actually we know she needs me, she wont let go. but umm, my needs are so out of the picture its stupid. sure she takes care of two now, i guess thats one of the drags about failed marriages. very hard to start something new with a lot of emotional needs coming with the deal. but you know what? i accepted that and my role.

 

some perspective here, i dont chase her, i dont call her. she calls, she plans. i just stopped the planning and future based on what was happening. i said i need you to committ to work on it or i have to go. not an unfair thing to ask for single mom at all considering i help out quite a bit with kid and house, she knows what came with the deal. i cant cut her that much slack anymore.

 

but all that said, love must flow naturally not be pushed. desire, comfort and intimacy after all the tactics and no contact, etc, etc, etc. must be allowed to just happen. in my case we couldnt get ther.

[rich_1517]

well i just have to do this and recycle my mental junk, dont read too hard into it.

 

all these things are true depending on how you look at it.

 

maybe she wanted the three days in san diego as a hope that she would feel more. that a trip would bring us closer together.

 

she has not said i love you, kissed me or really touched me with any real closeness in three months.

 

she is confused

 

she calls at least once a week without fail

 

i asked for her to be willing to talk trough what happened in hopes that we could rebuild from there. she said i cant, i see you more as a friend now.

 

i said nothing can happen without wanting it to. i cant make it happen alone.

 

she asked what does this mean? i said it means i start dating and being open to something new. she said she didnt like that at all.

 

i said that doing what we are doing will ultimately fail because its too safe.

 

she said maybe this will now change her feelings.

 

she doesnt trust herself around me, she will not let go physically.

 

she doesnt like to look at her feelings, she can let go much easier than i can.

 

i am very sad, we both contributed to the failure, i think she may have been more afraid to committ emotionally while i was afraid to committ relationally (move in, marriage).

 

so heres where i am today: i am second guessing my decision, i wonder if in fact i had just pulled away some, not pressed for a comittment and just did something else if it would turn out ok. that maybe san diego, or some other trip would have been the thing. i have to think about this because we will probably talk at some point and options may come again.

 

I think i had to establish some fear of loss, and respect. but maybe i didnt have to push it. we spent an entire day together and it went from lite kisses on the mouth back to a hug (ok this is pathetic). but i did accept that this could take time i just have trouble with the idea that it could take that much time.

 

ok vented.

[rich_1517]

hmmm. ok i get it again. Ziggy i had to look at the anger i felt at your post. emotional dependence. you were right. she left at a time when i really needed support so her leaving just added to it.

 

i think even though we think we have become emotionally stronger, we still long for them and desperately want it just back the way it was. so even in our best efforts, we still are holding our breath waiting for things to become normal (as we see it) again.

 

so crap, i think she is cautious for her own reasons, i am very controlled for mine.

 

so if i could step back and do part of this over it would be the last thing (of course) telling her i would date.

 

but bottom line, i have to let go for real. im not going to post for a couple days on purpose. i am going to see if i can stop thinking about it for an entire day before rethinking a damn thing.

 

my life needs attention still so thats where i will go. but if she asks again if I will go to san diego i may say let me think about it.

 

im done for a while

[rich_1517]

bottom line - there is nothing to do now but focus on me. i have to heal and see what i want.

 

she needs the time for herself to see how she feels with no pressure from me either direct or implied. i will only ask her to forgive the dating comment as it really was manipulative and wont answer any questions about dating itself, just say i dont think its appropriate.

 

 

perhaps later.

 

"even heroes have the right to bleed"

 

(five for fighting - superman)

[rich_1517]

well she is calling as expected.

 

i look in the mirror now and i see me, the old me with some new twists. stronger and a hell of a lot more grounded. i have been actively greiving then doing other things. i dont let myself dwell too long on her or the past. I have been thinking about what might be next.

 

i would still want her back IF she was truly wanting something to happen.

 

based on her behaviour i doubt she is doing much more than making sure i dont forger her. this time at least she left a message, so i feel i should respond. i think if a conversation starts i MAY apologise for the dating commnet. i dont know, i really dont want to show too much of me right now.

 

so i think its rule 2 of no contact, short and sweet, im fine how are you.

 

 

ideally i would love her to turn around in time to go to san diego, i dont see that happening. i will plan to call back when i know i can only leave a message, then be unavailable again.

 

so heres the question. if we assume the possibility she may change her feelings now that i wont play anymore by her rules, how should i proceed. i feel that i need a ground that allows me to keep moving away but not freeze her out. if on the other hand she just keeps saying "hi" with nothing else. then i may ask her to not call for a while.

 

this is really tricky she may suggest getting together. and you know what i really want to. but unlike other no contact situations we know she sees me as a friend. i think at least another week has to pass before i would consider anything. i dont want to get hurt again. i now really understand that seperation CLEAR seperation where both parties can walk away is the only way to go, its also the only way to get her want me.

 

i am realising i have been selling me way short. there are very good reasons she should miss me and have doubts about replacements. we made a very good couple. for my shortcomings i was also a very good man for her to have. i will leave a message. short and sweet, i can call her work phone saying i didnt want to bother her on her cell in case she was in a meeting. but you know she will call back......

 

ideas?

[Scout]

Rich, you probably know the answer in your heart: if she truly changes her feelings, you won't have to worry about how to proceed. That's the beauty of a healthy relationship where both parties know they want it to succeed and are equally committed. It just flows. Sure, there's rough spots, but both are committed to working through them. A healthy relationship is just not this difficult. I've been following your posts and honestly, this is the most frustrating relationship I've seen on the boards. You are a wonderfully patient man, full of love, but not blindly in love, you certainly have made some shrewd comments in all of your posts, both referring to your own and other situations on the board & appear to be a most intelligent man, anyway, what I'm getting at is I think you've done everything you could. It's just not supposed to be this hard. I don't know what she wants, her messages are very mixed up, and you must be going through hell trying to decipher them. Whether she intends this or not, I don't know, but you must extricate yourself from this incredibly frustrating situation. Not necessarily by refusing to take her calls, but by trying to just let go of the idea that there is going to be a reconciliation. Let go. Let go.

 

I hope I don't sound awfully supercilious and presumptious. If I do, I sincerely apologize...I just hate to see the pain you're going through. As I said, I've been following your posts, and I can't see a thing you did wrong, you've been admirable throughout the whole ordeal, but man - has it been an ordeal for you! I really don't see how you can continue on much longer with this torture. My heart and best wishes for you to find the strength to move on truly go out to you.

[rich_1517]

thanks scout. wow i read what you say about me and well thanks. doesnt go to my head, but it feels good. im honored that you would see me that way. you also have been thoughtful and very sharp in your feedback and adressing your own situation. cool.

 

i will have to let this sit for a day. yeah its pretty messed up when an ex does this. how in the hell i picked someone who could be this inconsiderate i have no idea. in the end its up to me to set the boundary. i can wish this different in so many ways, even as friends. but i have to make the call on this.

 

I have to assume she cant be trusted right now. hard decision but she has shown she can walk all over the line between friend and more without a moments hesitation. it reminds me of a teenager (no offense to our teen listeners) you know the "golly i didnt know i was hurting you, im sorry"

 

i will not be rude, but i may make her wait some time before calling back. just be busy, perhaps i will choose that path overall and just let her die on the vine.

 

dont know, i feel that a call or any move by me is wrong right now. time has to pass for either way to happen - missing me enough to change her heart, me having distance to let go and move on.

 

grrrrrrr.

[curbie]

Rich,

 

Your situation sounds very similar to mine with a few exceptions. If you scan through my situation you'll understand why. (the link is at the bottom of my post) My ex just didn't feel the love was there anymore. No real reason...she didn't know why. I didn't like it, and it wasn't fair. I felt I had a right to know why, but could not get an answer. We are supposed to be going out for dinner next weekend, and I wanted to go over a few things with my ex. I take advice from this forum and from a girl I am good friends with at work. I want to ask my ex if we do the no contact thing for 1 month or more to give each other to sort out our feelings...and see how we feel when the time is up. I too, am hoping that the no contact will change her feelings. The last time we split up, I didn't quite follow the NC rule. I emailed her every other night when I got home from work, or we spoke online via instant messenger. So...the NC rule didn't really work last time, b/c I broke the rules.

[rich_1517]

hi curbie

 

cant look now at you rpost but i will.

 

my advice is to listen very carefully when she says she doesnt feel in love anymore, then pay attention to the actions as well. if you are getting a lot of calls and invites but no romance at all. she could be playing it safe for some reason which could be one of these or many others, be careful

 

1. she doesnt want an intimate relationship anymore but misses you

2. she likes the power

3. she is unsure, but open (that one is actually the hardest)

4. shes bored and lonely, and you are available

5. she is absolutely confused

6. there is a change in behavoiur or attitude she is looking for. have you done an inventory of what she may have said before that she wanted but wasnt getting? just dont run to her with an AHA i get it. start changing those things if they suit you and you want her back. its very powerful.

 

if she is talking about the relationship you are in better shape then i am. remember if she sees you as a friend she wont talk about much because she sees no value in it, meaning the past is past.

 

dont blame yourself for n/c when they also contact you its harder to maintain. but my feeling is when they dont feel "in love" anymore believe it, and give them all the room in the world to see for themselves. keep conversations short. but dont pressure her. i will read your post later.

[rich_1517]

well i decided that no contact isnt what i want yet. we talked, meaningless of course. i was very tired. so i let her chat. she wanted to know about my weekend i just said low key no details.

 

i have to now see how hard this is or not. she knows i have said i am going to date so at some point she is going to ask.

 

but its more how i feel as i listened to her talk about her weekend with her son and the plans (which im not in) for this weekend, i saw myself there doint those things. its very sad. i will let one or two more happen before i make a decision.

 

she is hard as a rock, she doesnt know or she doesnt want to know that this hurts me. as far as i can see she feels nothing towards me.

 

damn

[rich_1517]

dont shoot me. since she isnt with someone else but im dating i am going to leave the door open a crack. i will do two weeks of no contact by me, no meetings, no family stuff.

 

i will watch how she behaves during this time while i do other things. then when her kids dad gets back and shes free again see what she does. if she calls i may suggest coffee, or let her suggest something.

 

obviously she isnt done yet. the details she tells me about, the times she calls says she is still confused. but i cant trust her, i can forgive her though.

 

i am finding forgiving makes it easier, people fall out of love all the time and holding onto the anger and resentment means im not forgiving myself for choosen her and letting this happen on my side either. as long as i hold on the anger i cant grow or walk away.

 

you should try it.

 

well i booked this weekend up solid with dates, im ready for it. its been too long without real physical or emotional contact. so i will let it happen with C the girl i used to date.

 

the sub plot here is still remaking me: getting in great shape, continueing to look for a "career job"quit smoking, diet changes, more fun and rebuild me as i want.

[Stingseed]

Hello Rich

 

I understand what you are going through and although not the same situation My ex cheated one me and still seeing the fling. But seeing other people is definatly the route to choose. It will make nc much easier. I would not to shut her out completely take a call once in a while if nothing said about the realtionship then make an excuse and hang up. You have great with this gal and she needs to notice this first then she will come to her senses. This is were yours and mines are similar my ex is with someone else like I said but mentions to me she wishes I would goto the places she is going to with her instead of the fling, calls him my name as such ,but is afraid of me accepting her again the same so you see she is confused and scared of coming back to me. Best thing for you to do is to let her come to her senses on her own.

[caveat]

Rich,

 

I have read through enough of your thread to get a general sense of what you are going through, and as someone who had the rug pulled out from under him over 2 months ago, you have my sympathies. My situation is very different from yours with one major exception: my ex is also very confused and conflicted. It sucks that the confusion and conflict were such that she felt that she needs to be 'independent' right now, but it is what it is and in my heart I know that only she can resolve that confusion and that any coercion/pleading on my part would not give her the space and time to work through it 'independently'. At best, if I was successful I think it would only be a temporary fix, one which would come loose at some point or fester into resentment on her part. No good can come from either. She has to choose what she wants of her own accord, and without undue influence from ANYONE.

 

My split occurred after a solid 6 year relationship and it has torn me up pretty badly. I loved this woman with all of my heart and she knew it. But I refuse to lay down and wallow in my misery. Once I knew she had dug her heels in about the need to take a break (though she insisted that we will be together long term, wants to have my children, etc. but is just really confused right now), I backed away. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but even before I knew of this so called 'no contact' rule, I decided to cut off contact b/c I thought it would give her the best chance to work through this, me the best chance to move forward, and the best chance of allowing her and my path to cross again by biting the bullet and getting on with it--timing seems to be our worst enemy! With that as my motivation I ended her and my last conversation with "I think I understand where you are at, I hate it and want us to be together, but will let you go. If you reach a point where you want me as the only man in your life and its for the right reasons, reach out to me. Otherwise, please don't." It was the hardest thing I ever said and I have been agonizing over it ever since, but have stuck to my guns and have not called. Nor has she.

 

Honestly, I think her and I are done--I think it will take her too long to cycle through whatever she is feeling--and it kills me to say that, but if that is the case then so be it. I will move forward, albeit with a wound that will take a long time to heal, but her loss will be the gain of someone else more deserving and more ready for a committed relationship.

 

I know the way I have approached this is a gamble and not for everyone, but I can tell you that while the first month was absolute hell, its already gotten better. Its provided a great deal of time for introspection on what things may have triggered this split, what things I need to improve upon and what things I need to concentrate on going forward. I've used this experience as the catalyst to make a number of changes in my life, to devote time to taking care of myself and getting my life and goals re-established, and I know that if was allowing myself to talk to her right now I wouldn't have the mental energy to force myself to stand up straight and toe the line.

 

This is a unique opportunity to make yourself a better and stronger person (regardless of how good and strong you already are). Seize it. You won't be sorry. The confidence you will have in yourself will be obvious to everyone around you, especially the person who decided to walk away.

 

Good luck, hang tough and remember that there are 2 types of people in this world. Those who get knocked down and stay down and those that get knocked down and get back up. There is nothing wrong with staying down to catch your breath, but don't wait too long.

[kipster]

 

 

Damn Caveat, that's as 'DEEP' and as 'REAL' as it gets my friend! What you've said describes my situation to the tee as I've come off a long term relationship just like yours and am taking it squarely on the chin with each passing day.

 

However, if 'space' is what this person wanted than I was secure in giving it and I, like you, have learned more about myself, relationships, etc., in 2 1/2 months than I have in an entire lifetime. And letting go of something you LOVE (hoping it will see the light and return) is THE hardest thing I've EVER had to do in my entire lifetime (i.e., what USHER refers to as 'BURNING' I believe). Its bitter-sweet in that without this split I'd have never learned about what makes a woman truly fulfilled, but with it, I've (at the very least temporarily) lost a great woman that I adore but was too busy with my own focus to see that she felt neglected and alone within our relationship. So I too cut off contact and respectfully refuse to make it, to let this 'person' figure our what it is that she really wants and heal. She has my address and phone number and need only use either to take the first step. As of yet, she hasn't but I refuse to let my negative emotions win out. If this is what she WANTS, than so be it. I've done all that I can for now, the balls in her court. We'll see if she puts it in play....

 

But I absolutely FEEL you on this one BRO!!!

[dikaia880]

those are some great comments guys...

 

If we truly love our ex's, we do want to be with them, but above that we want them to be happy...

I've realized by continually telling her my feelings I've made her hurt (feeling bad that she hurt me) The only way we can truly win them back is by improving ourselves...forgiving them (it's usually not really their fault, but just what they think is best)...and being there for them when they ask us to be...Maintaining a friendly position until it is obvious that they will never love us enough to be with us or until they realize what their missing and come back...

 

It's cliche, but if you love someone let them go, if they come back their your's...

Just the way they can't change the way we feel about them, we can't change the way they feel about us...only we can change us, only they can change they...

[kipster]

If we truly love our ex's, we do want to be with them, but above that we want them to be happy...I've realized by continually telling her my feelings I've made her hurt (feeling bad that she hurt me) The only way we can truly win them back is by improving ourselves...forgiving them (it's usually not really their fault, but just what they think is best)...and being there for them when they ask us to be...Maintaining a friendly position until it is obvious that they will never love us enough to be with us or until they realize what their missing and come back......

 

Very eloquently spoken dikaia! Its almost like the ultimate emotional sacrifice for a man to let go of a woman since our immediate thought is that she's leaving for another guy. In fear, most men beg, plead, bargain, etc., to try to make her stay, which ironically seems to make her even more willing to leave. So I'm not fighting against those I love anymore. No need! If that's what you want, enjoy yourself and be happy. Just remember though, that sometimes you get what you wish for only to realize that it wasn't really what you wanted. But by then, someone else had what you really wanted but were too blind to either give another chance, to forgive, etc.

 

It's cliche, but if you love someone let them go, if they come back their your's...

 

Perhaps but I'm not sold on that cliche too much. I've seen people who never let something go and it was theirs, just as I've seen others let something comeback only to find out that it wasn't theirs in the first place. So I take the cliche's with a grain of salt. But you we're right about self-improvement and remaining optimistic. There's simply no substitute for it.

[rich_1517]

wow im floored. you guys have written a collection of forgiveness, acceptance, forethought, reflection and growth into a thread that is a real chemistry for healing and probably one of the best plans for winning someone back (if thats to be) that i have seen.

 

i realised that if my ex hadnt left i would have continued to accept less then i deserved in a relationship, also true she would have let things decay as well. whether those realisations lead to us back together or someone new for me, i now see where i went wrong and it took an ending to bring it out.

 

i also was living in my own lack of change and growth and using the relationship as a sheild. true my life is still very hard in some ways and change will take time, but im devoted to it becuase the alternative is unacceptable. i want to be happy.

 

for me, now its letting go. even though she calls once, twice a week its not what i want or need that she offers. so not so much a plan as a path, one that doesnt require me to give away too much of myself, a relationship will not grow or survive on one person trying, so I will not try anymore. i will focus my attentions on growth and acceptance, when she calls i will be friendly and well just myself.

 

the best thing i can do in this situation is secure a job that fits my long term plans. the other key piece is to plan fun things to do every week, this is something i have let go in the past, so camping, comedy, shows, etc. have to exist.