Spanking

[Skillpadde]

Because certainly with younger children it may not be possible to sit down and rationally explain to them, like with an animal, you need to resort to universally acknowleged among all species ways of punishment. If you cannot reason, then you cannot always use methods like negative reinforcement (such as the sending to the corner until the child behaves as it is meant to) as a young child with little grasp of reasoning won't react as well as to punishment. However on the whole I'm a firm believer in positive reinforcement for all ages, rather than punishment. However, I was only hit two or three times as a child, and for two of those I remember why, what I was doing, and certainly didn't fear my parents as a result, as for those occasions I was intentionally winding them up, and I refused to listen to them reasoning with me- I was 5-7, so was capable of it. The light smack reinforced boundaries and did me no harm whatsoever.

[Seraphim]

I am still not hearing why. Kids do understand words. They clearly understand long before they can talk. I am not talking about abuse. I am talking about inequality.

[sidehop]

Vic, I understand where you want to go with this but there are cases I'm sure you've experience or at least know someone that as much as you may be against the idea, spanking does work with some kids. And I clearly understand with some it really doesn't work.

 

I'm with you on positive reinforcement vs. negative reinforcement and punishment. My wife and I debated this many times. A spanking would could possibly come into play if our daughter ever repeatedly done something out of line. Something that resulted as an example, harming another person with the intent to. That's where I would draw the line.

 

Now on a daily basis she throws a fit and starts throwing stuff (she's at that stage), I re-direct her anger and hug her to explain why we don't take out our anger on things. Whether that's a good way of teaching her, it seems to calm her down...and of course kids forget about it two seconds later.

[Skillpadde]

Actually the more I think about it the more I dislike the concept of spanking in the act of it- as in, bending a child over your knee, taking their clothes down and hitting them on the bare * * * * . I feel that is extremely degrading and uneducational for the child. That is not about physically punishing a child to educate, it is about embarassing the child, and I think that kind of 'spanking' is very detrimental to the child and will only have a negative. It is far too premeditated and calculated and I think it's very unacceptable.

 

However, the physical punishment I deem appropriate would be the kind I received, where instead of the 'trousers down, bend over' approach, a cuff accross the face or a swipe in the general area of my behind, more to shock than hurt or embarrass, is much more effective. In the wild animals educate their young on occasion when they are showing undesireable behavior is to nip them on the ear- I see the punishment I just described as on par to that, with none of the embarassment and humiliation that traditional 'spanking' seems to carry with it.

[Seraphim]

](*,). I have to leave this discussion.

[Skillpadde]

Well you don't seem to be giving any kind of reasoning or explanation for why you think any kind of hitting of a child is paramount to physical abuse. I'm not saying your view point is wrong but you don't seem to be able to back it up, you just keep saying how it's wrong without explaining why it is, and what better methods there could be to dealing with bad behavior.

[sidehop]

However, the physical punishment I deem appropriate would be the kind I received, where instead of the 'trousers down, bend over' approach, a cuff accross the face or a swipe in the general area of my behind, more to shock than hurt or embarrass, is much more effective. In the wild animals educate their young on occasion when they are showing undesireable behavior is to nip them on the ear- I see the punishment I just described as on par to that, with none of the embarassment and humiliation that traditional 'spanking' seems to carry with it.

 

It's not just spanking either, sometimes kids learn in the worst way possible.

 

When I was small I said a very bad word to my mom. She didn't hit me. All I heard and saw was "WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY!?!?!?!?!!?" and next thing you know she was ready to throw her mahogany cutting board at me I was never so scared in my life. Since then I never dared saying that word.

[Seraphim]

Well you don't seem to be giving any kind of reasoning or explanation for why you think any kind of hitting of a child is paramount to physical abuse. I'm not saying your view point is wrong but you don't seem to be able to back it up, you just keep saying how it's wrong without explaining why it is, and what better methods there could be to dealing with bad behavior.

 

INEQUALITY is what I am saying.

[sidehop]

Inequality as in form of punishment? Or inequality as in whole how children are treated? Because parents certain cannot treat them like adults for obvious reasons. Every child has different learning behavior. Just because you give them this equal rights to not spank your child doesn't always mean the child will grow up respectful or don't become the next serial killer.

[Skillpadde]

But children aren't like adults. They don't think the same, they don't have the same power of reason, the same life experiences, you cannot treat them as equals, you need to mould them into adults, they aren't grown up minds trapped in a small body. Children do not have the same laws as adults, they cannot indulge in 'adult' behaviors such as driving, jobs, sex, smoking/drinking, etc.

[Seraphim]

But children aren't like adults. They don't think the same, they don't have the same power of reason, the same life experiences, you cannot treat them as equals, you need to mould them into adults, they aren't grown up minds trapped in a small body. Children do not have the same laws as adults, they cannot indulge in 'adult' behaviors such as driving, jobs, sex, smoking/drinking, etc.

 

This is not what I am saying at all.

[D_Lish]

Actually the more I think about it the more I dislike the concept of spanking in the act of it- as in, bending a child over your knee, taking their clothes down and hitting them on the bare * * * * . I feel that is extremely degrading and uneducational for the child.

 

I disagree with this form of spanking...

I dont think any child should ever be hit, on the bare flesh and it's wrong to take kids over your knee and pull down garnments to spank them.

That is something that my parents never did and I've never done that...

 

When I said I was spanked, it was a swift, light slap accross the backside immediatley after I'd done wrong and to let me know I'd been naughty. I dont even recall these swift spanks as painful nor humiliating. My parents intention was not to hurt me......the swift spank was to let me know that what I'd done was unacceptable and wrong. They were spanks recieved while fully clothed. There was no bending over anyones knee and smacked on the bare butt.

 

Obviously 'spanking' is different in the US

[Seraphim]

Inequality as in form of punishment? Or inequality as in whole how children are treated? Because parents certain cannot treat them like adults for obvious reasons. Every child has different learning behavior. Just because you give them this equal rights to not spank your child doesn't always mean the child will grow up respectful or don't become the next serial killer.

 

Every adult has their own learning style as well. So that does not wash either. Not every smacked kid turns out to be respectful either. Form of punishment is closer. You are hearing more of what I am saying. However the next adult that I think is wrong I think I should walk up and smack them upside the head because they CLEARLY should know better, and when that is not illegal we will have equality.

[Skillpadde]

This is not what I am saying at all.

 

Well as you seem either reluctant or unable to explain what you are saying I guess we will need to leave this as a difference of opinions.

[Seraphim]

Well as you seem either reluctant or unable to explain what you are saying I guess we will need to leave this as a difference of opinions.

 

I have told you. Look at what I said to the other poster. If we smack kids for being wrong lets smack adults for being wrong cause Lord knows there are some. THAT is equality. I am in no way reluctant to explain. I have all along. If we can not smack adults for doing things that as adults we should know better then we should not get to do it to kids either.

[FarthestEdge]

If this is considered a "political" thread, feel free to delete, Moderators!

 

Anywho...my fiancee and I were talking about spanking children and it moved toward spanking kids with inanimate objects (ie: newspapers, etc).

 

In your opinion, where does it cross a line?

 

Thanks all! Just wanted to gain some societal feedback.

 

Well, I don't know if this has been mentioned.

 

Without engaging in the debate of whether to spank at all- Some believe that when you spank with an object, instead of your hand, it is the object that is feared or avoided - not you. It psychologically separates you from the punishment. Plus, in taking the time to go get said object, you give yourself time to reflect and ask if you are wanting to punish for the sake of discipline,or are you wanting to hit because you are frustrated? IMO - IF you are going to use physical punishment, you must be in a controlled state of mind, and it must be for the sake of discipline- not lashing out in anger or frustration.

 

However, it then becomes a question of the force of said 'object'. As a child, I knew my grandmother would swat me on the behind with a flyswatter if I got out of line. We all did. The flyswatter stung, but in actuality, likely hurt less than her hand would have. Also, we feared the flyswatter, not Gammie herself. We talk of "the flyswatter" amongst ourselves now as if it had a mind of it's own.

 

On the other hand, I know people who were lashed with belts until they had welts, and one person who was paddled with a canoe paddle. I'm thinking those objects were MORE severe than an adult hand-spanking would be- IMO, this crosses the line.

 

There are some thoughts. Do with them what you will. I have no interest in the inevitable debate over whether or not spanking is ever apropriate.

[unabashed]

Well as you seem either reluctant or unable to explain what you are saying I guess we will need to leave this as a difference of opinions.

 

For me, it's about respect. I truly believe that children are people, too. And, I think you should always try to treat people with dignity and respect. I fail at this as much as anyone, but I don't deliberately set out to treat anyone in a way that I would not want to be treated. A smack on the butt or accross the face would be considered assault if I did that to another adult. Why is it then OK to do so to a child? I think there is no good explanation. It may be that many of us were not harmed by the type of discipline that you find acceptable, but I would like to see the "scientific studies" that substantiate this as a helpful method. The American Academy of Pediatrics, for example, wouldn't be in agreement with that idea. Do you remember the poem, "Children Learn What They Live" by Dorothy Law Nolte? It was hanging in my doctor's office in the 1970's, so it isn't a new concept.

 

Children Learn What They Live

By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.

 

If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.

If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.

If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.

If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.

If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.

If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.

If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.

If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.

If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.

If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.

If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.

If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.

If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.

If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.

If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.

If children live with fairness, they learn justice.

If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.

If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.

If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

 

Copyright © 1972 by Dorothy Law Nolte

[sidehop]

And this is just a tip of the iceberg how we should raise children. Again it's the parent's choice and should exercise utmost respect and love for any punishment.

 

We can pick and point every little thing that we shouldn't be doing to a child but every parent knows the best for their own.

[unabashed]

And this is just a tip of the iceberg how we should raise children. Again it's the parent's choice and should exercise utmost respect and love for any punishment.

 

We can pick and point every little thing that we shouldn't be doing to a child but every parent knows the best for their own.

 

No argument, there. Except, in fact, many parents really don't know what's best for their kids, as witnessed by the bona fide abuse of children. But, I'm not talking about that at all. I must assume the best, that those of us who are in the discussion are good, well-intentioned parents or parents-to-be.

 

Just responding about spanking on a thread about spanking.... Why do you seem to have a need to generalize the topic and make it about "every little thing"? I'm personally not addressing anything but the subject at hand. Is there something I'm not understanding about your concerns, or the original poster's questions?

 

And, of course, it's just a poem, but it is fairly profound, in my view. Not trying to assert that it encompasses all there is to know about child-rearing.

[sidehop]

Just responding other posters is all I apologize if I did went off topic on the discussion.

[Maroney555]

I haven't looked at this for a while, but thanks everyone for the responses!!! They all helped.

[Dinka]

I grew up getting spanked. Not often at all, and with bare hands. My parents NEVER used an inanimate object: that's hitting. There is a distinct difference between hitting and spanking and if a person doesn't know the difference, they have no right to try and spank anyone.

 

I was spanked, I have never spanked a child, but I am a firm believer in spanking as well.