20, never had a girlfriend, still a virgin

[PAdreamer]

Shinobe... How many ways do I need to spell this out for you hun?! What people say about you is not universal law! Do you have ANY idea how many times I've been called ugly?! I've been called a bunch of nasty things. But you know what, none of that matters because I know better. I mean, come on! What kind of person gets their kicks out of putting someone down? The kind of person who has been put down themselves and needs to act superior to try and feel good about themselves. People like that don't deserve to give their unwanted opinions.

I STILL want to see a picture of you. I personally think that your claim to ugliness is complete bull, so prove me wrong! I dare you!

[Outlaw2747]

Hanging out with the wrong people....please take note I don't HANG with these people. They are just people I know in my general area that have the intestinal fortitude to say whatever they please. They also occur on the internet as well. I'm a not my own enemy, I am my own best friend. I say everything based on simple truth. And as I had said, not everyone of one party is guilty. I will be fine, this topic stresses and confuses me all the time but it won't ruin my life. So besides the female relationship topic, I am generally laid back and happy (but I am a pessimist forever).

 

Now one thing I need to correct about me having female friends. MOST are not my real friends, I should have siad I get along with females quite well when it comes to acquaintances. They only time most of these "friends" talk to me is when they need something or their favorite boy toys are nowhere to be seen. Once again, the tool factor comes in. And Shinobi, I feel your pain but I doubt you are any worse looking than I am. I been down right degraded in front of people my entire lifespan, even by people I do not know. Kinda fun.....(sarcasm right there)

[frail]

Have you ever in your life called someone ugly? To their face, in a note, or whatever? Probably not. Because you, like everyone else here, treat people the way you'd want to be treated. The people who go around putting down others do it to make them feel better about themselves. And that's a classic line but it's true. We've all been humiliated. But like i had said before, it's how you handle it that makes a difference. We all gotta step up and take control of how we react... eventhough it's hard to do. Outlaw, i'm glad to hear that your doing much better then what i had thought.

 

I'm currently taking a sabbatical from my job. I've recently been humiliated and have reacted in a way only making it worse for myself. So i figure i needed some time off and get back in control. Get myself back into order, relax and enjoy the summer. I'm also open to making a few online friends. If anyone cares to chat about this subject or something else then this subject, let me know.

[Outlaw2747]

No prob frail, I usually don't go looking for friends but I welcome anyone who wants to be friends with me. I'm not 100% confident in myself but I do sometimes conjure enough confidence to get something done. Females is just something I have a huge problem dealing with but no I don't hate myself or anything like that. I don't blame my looks on anyone and quite frankly I won't change for anyone. So I am having difficulties and whatnot but I tend to be very direct and speak of the truth when it comes to matters like this. I stink at getting with or keeping a girl....that's just the way it is and not all of us are meant to be with someone. I am just one of those people.

[PAdreamer]

Wow... I REALLY wish could access a chat of some sort! I think you guys would be so much fun to have a real conversation with!

[Outlaw2747]

If anyone wants my Yahoo AND AOL screen name...it is outlaw2747 and on MSN it is email removedh is also my e-mail address.

 

So I am cool with everybody up in this post, you all have been helpful and I share alot of your pain fellas. I am open for any conversation.

[Caldus]

So true. If people are calling you ugly then they have a problem with trying to respect other people. People that do that are usually very insecure people in the inside and just feel like they need to gain confidence by putting others' down. Forget about them. Don't even think about them. They are wrong anyhow.

 

Oh, and my contact info is in my profile if you guys want to talk about this or something.

[relical]

hi am just a casual browser who found this thread via google...

 

vfunkera, you are giving out some of the most valuable advice here. thanks for doing that.

 

peace.

[Outlaw2747]

Frail, Caldus, vfunkera and the others all gave out good advice. Unfortunately in most cases it don't work because i been there and done that but anything is better than just standing there being a target for some heartless moron. I am over all my ex's but all the things I have gone through will never be forgotten. The bad about that is the fact that it still kinda hurts but the upside is I learn from what has happened. The the man problem is people change and the human race is unpredicatable and a once nice, sweet girl can turn nasty and heartless in a second without provokation.

[Shidoshi]

Even though many people claim to be attracted to others based on personality, I have to say that for the most part it is not the case. Look at people who are severly deformed like burn victims or people with genetic disorders and diseases that effect their appearance. Hell, look at elephant man, the guy was actually a damn good writer, and I was very impressed with the way he wrote about his life and experiences. But he was an outcast PURELY because of his appearance.

 

I know from personal experience that this presents a tough challenge, because you know that there clearly are limits on the type of people you could ever hope to have a relationship with. A lot of your success in finding a mate will also depend on what sort of standards you have, and how far you take these standards. I would LOVE to go out with a gorgeous woman, but what about a woman who is 300lbs over weight, or a someone who is missing legs and arms, or a dwarf, etc...

 

I'm slowly learning that in order for me to be successful in finding a mate I can't have steep requirements that even I probably wouldn't measure up to. I'm not implying that any of you are guilty of this, but physical appearance seems to play a HUGE role in life, especially when it comes to human relationships.

[johnagent1911]

Guys and girls are the same. We want the best looking mate, the end.

 

1911

[Shinobie]

Wow mang i luv these new pills i got man dude this is the first time i felt actually like truly happy in the last 2 years it feels great.Happy happy happy! yay i feel right,i feel like how i used to feel when i liked life.Only bad thing is hopefuly i dont get dependent on those pills but i like them!Still the only thing i dont get is girls =/ but i gotta push to actually see if i can talk more confidently to some and get good at it.If u want to talk or something my msn messenger is email removed i guess.

[Outlaw2747]

Hey Shinobi I added you to my messenger if you didn't mind. But yeah don't get too dependent on those pills. Even though i jeep saying I am going to give up on girls, instinct tells me not to. I'm not going to look for them but I will be open to them and try not to be a hermit for the rest of my life. It's hard but I will try my best. I'm down but not out. Just kno this.....you will NEVER understand women.....none of us will. Way too complicated.

[Shinobie]

I thoughts of something that haunts my mind.What i dont get is why have the instincts if u cant satisfy those instincts with actually having a girlfriend and some companionship.Life just cant seem right thats what i have felt and always felt guess i finally put it into words while talking to outlaw.

[Outlaw2747]

And I pointed out that the statement he made was pure logic. It is really a shame that some of us have such a hard time dealing with the opposite sex. I known a guy who almost killed himself because all girls ever did to him was destroy him and he was a nice, caring, NON OBSESSED guy and these females, no matter where he went, treat him even worse than they did me....well not quite but real close. Truly sad we have the instinct to find a love but can never fulfill it because some of us are doomed to live like this.

 

You know the saying..."There's somebody for everybody?" Crock of zebra dung that is. Some of us are not meant to be with a true love.....most of our uses are tolls like emotional support, financial support, a shoulder to cry on, etc. etc. Just something to make someone temporarily happy until they find someone of so-called "high value", mainly of the looks department. We can show as much confidence as needed and still get the same result. that's how you know yo are not destined to find "The One."

[lonelynshy]

Hello. I have been busy the last few days (dentists..ugh) and I have to catch up on the posts. I read some of them including Shinobie's statement that people call him "ugly". I can relate to that. Lots of people have called me ugly too (more guys though). Girls do it in a more subtle way. Like last year in University (my freshman year,btw) there was this big hunk of a guy (I'm 5'5 and he's 6'3 so imagine that) who had an attitude. He was the typical ___hole and his physique helped him translate attitude into action. He used to intimidate me physically,hitting me etc but not really injuring me,only my self esteem. He was popular among ALL the girls including our common friends. It was so obvious at times. And they'd all giggle when he threatened me and the best I could do was change the topic or appease him. There were only a couple of middle-aged women who supported me (not in front of him) and asked me to 'complain' but what's the good of that if I have no injuries and no reliable witnesses? And I would permanently be classified as a wuss and a coward. It's OK for women to run to the police but not men. Anyway,I see I'm digressing. I just wanted to explain that it's not a piece of cake for some of us shy guys,no matter what our attitude is. Some shy guys are blessed with a better physical stature but I'm sure they get their share of emotional bullies. The only women who actually like me are the older ones and that's in a maternal kind of way and I really resent it. Someone said that being a man is about 'competition' and that I should show what I have to offer. What DO I have? I'm good at chemistry, working with plants and animals and chess. You got it,that means G-E-E-K written all over my face(even though I am not since I don't consider any of these things my life). Show me a woman who likes men branded as geeks. None.

 

You know what...it helps a lot to know that there are other guys in my situation (well at least partially). To know that I'm not alone. But it sucks all the same. I'm going to be 20 in two months and the only people who know my birthday are my parents. And I'd look like a dork if I went around telling my acquaintances when it was unless they asked. But of course they never ask because they're not my friends and don't give a d@mn about me. If that isn't enough reason for *knowing* I'm a lonely loser and a failure in life,tell me what is.

[Outlaw2747]

Another well spoken post lonelynshy. More stuff for me to think about. I get the maternal love all the time, basically a sign that i am a loser. I am also an intellect. I prefer to study living things, read, and hit up the internet to learn about my surroundings and I am easily branded NERD, GEEK, LOSER, and other stupid stuff. And yes I do go out and hang out at shopping areas and eateries so I do have a life. Anyways, thugs and jocks are high on the girls hit list. I know someone is going to mention CONFIDENCE, which is why they go for these types. Not true. I have shown confidence, not enough to show myself as stuck-up but normal confidence, and it gets shot down. Let's face it, you have to be an ___h0le in order to be lucky to get with a girl successfully, it's just that the guys throw them away.

 

Now, as far as being called names and being referred to as ugly.....yes girls have laughed at me too. Their hotshot boyfriend or male running buddy calls me names, threatens me so I can "bow" down to him (in most cases I stand my ground) and all that other stuff, and these same girls who complain about no good guys around sit there and ridicule me. I been teased just for the simple fact I knw a spider isn't an insect....tell me how stupid that is. I seen alot of girls hang out with these so-called comedians that make fun of others and yet they are DUMB as doorknobs. hello! Even us more relaxed fellas can make you laugh, have fun, show confidence and whatnot if y'all just GIVE US A CHANCE. We sit alone of discuss something other than the Music Awards and we are instantly labeled LOSER, NERD, GEEK, WEIRDO. And we are the terrrible ones? Give me a break. Then come cry to us when Mr. Hilarious and Mr. HotnSexy breaks your heart.....what's the deal anyways?

[jakebarnes]

Hey lonelynshy,

at least you have still a fine sense of humour, that will be going to help you

getting along with people and making friends. This should be the first step for you, anyway. Sorry that my post is short and unhelpful, but I have to go offline as it dawns where I am situated, right over the pond. Just wanted to express my sympathy cos I m going through some of this, too. However, it s not that bad that I am involved with chemistry...

[Caldus]

Someone said that being a man is about 'competition' and that I should show what I have to offer. What DO I have? I'm good at chemistry, working with plants and animals and chess. You got it,that means G-E-E-K written all over my face(even though I am not since I don't consider any of these things my life). Show me a woman who likes men branded as geeks. None.

 

Well whoever said that, ignore them. Be yourself. You will be most content when you are always true to yourself. I think some girls would love to hear that you work with plants and animals. Think about how many girls love animals. Find a club or organization around your area for plants and/or animals and I'm sure you'll meet the kind of people you want to meet! Forget the competition for now. You're not losing any kind of competition unless you give up. Just go out and find people of your type.

[PAdreamer]

I love you guys, but you're depressing me! I read your posts, and i keep thinking, "my God! I hope I never made anyone feel like that!" Because i know that i have never intentionally tried to make ANY guy feel bad unless he was a complete creep looking to get in my pants.

Shidoshi, I'm not sure how many of my posts you've read- I honestly can't remember who came into this topic at what point! LOL! I am having such a hard time relating to the things you guys are saying because I am not that type of girl! And most of my friends aren't either. I admit that I used to be a little bit uncomfortable around people who were different than me, whether they had a disability or they were from another culture. But it wasn't because I thought they were bad people are not worthy or weird in some way. It's truly because I felt unworthy around them. For example, let's take the deaf comunity. There's an ettiquette to follow. And if you step outside of that very strict ettiquette, they don't like you. Or take wheelchair-bound people. I never know if it's impolite to offer to help them! I don't want to do anything that would make them dislike me! It's not that I don't like them! i'm simply afraid of doing something wrong.

When i got to spend time with my boyfriend, I was a little apprehensive for about the first 48 hours. I just waited for the signals from him. He asked me once to take his crutches for him while he walked up the stairs. Once i knew that he wouldn't mind me doing that for him, i started to get a bit more comfortable with offering to do small things for him. But things like that vary from person to person, so I never know what I should or shouldn't do around them.

I would absolutely LOVE to get to know people who are different than me, but I often feel like they expect me to read their minds and know what they are and are NOT okay with! If they would just clue me in every now and then I'd have an easier time of relaxing into the relationship with them! And if they notice that I'm a little uncomfortable, I wish they wouldn't jump to conclusions about my reasons for feeling nervous. I'm a nice person with a very open mind and an accepting heart! ALL of my friends are the types of kids who aren't very widely accepted among their peers! All of my friends are younger than me, few of them are particularly "attractive" as far as the rest of scoiety is concerned, but I absolutely adore them! they're talented and caring, and I love being around them!

I'm so worn out from having to defend myself over the years, trying to prove that not all women are as shallow as we're made out to be! i think that the women who act like that stand out more because negativity has a bigger effect on people than positivity. Negativity directly effects the attitudes of everyone around it, causing the people nearby to then send out the whole negative vibe. I know it seems that I'm getting off topic but I guess i just need to say these things.

Outlaw, what you said about having to be an a**hole to be successful with girls isn't true per say. Once again it comes down to negativity. Negative attention is better than no attention at all to some people. that's why a lot of girls deliberately play themselves up as b*tches! It gets them noticed, and they don't feel so lonely anymore. If they play the part well enough, people will literally bow at their feet and worship them just so they won't fall victim to the negativity the ladies put out. A lot of girls are attracted to guys who treat them and everyone around them like CRAP because at least they get attention!

But does that mean that the girl is really a terrible person? What drove her to such extreme measures? Yes, some girls are just spoiled, selfish brats who think they can have their way all the time. I used to be a very mean person, believe it or not. I acted just like these girls that you're talking about. I know I said I never deliberatley treated any guys badly... i don't think i've ever picked on a guy about the things you've all been mentioning. But i used to just be a very hurt and angry kid. I tried to hide it all by acting like i was superior, ostly acting very tough and cruel. I didn't want anyone to think that they could mess with me because in all honesty i was terrified. It got me a lot of attention- negative attention- but at least i knew that people saw me, and they wouldn't pick on me because they were too afraid. i wasn't getting lost in the crowd anymore. See where i'm going with this?

Anyway, once i figured out who i really was and i got my life together, things literally turned around 180 degrees for me. A lot of people haven't found themselves yet, but at least give those of us who have some credit! I've worked too hard and too long to better myself to let people try to tell me that i'm just like every hurtful woman out there. And i know you all aren't pointing fingers at me, but it feels like it when you make so many generalizations.

Sorry for the long, rambling post. Just one more thing that i want to say. Outlaw, you're on my heart when i say this, but it's for all of you: just because you've tried things before and they didn't work doesn't mean it will always be the same. every situation is a little different even if it feels the same. there is always some unique aspect, so keep trying to do your best. All anyone should ever ask of you is that you do what you believe is your best. Do that, and the rest of it is their problem, not yours.

You guys really are a cool bunch! Don't let anyone tell you different!

[titan1]

Get some models to hang out with you for a night--------- dress up real nice--------- make an entrance------------ send them to the bathroom and the cat-like instinct of the other women will compel the questions..

 

1.. what is the deal with him--

 

2. if those girls are with him.. then somethng must be good there....

 

3. he has a women's smell on him so he's safe..

 

Plus the intrigue..

 

not dissimilar to why you f*** through friendship circles--- as your 'safety' parameters are established through their clique......

 

(( some women will hate this post-- but I don't care--- its the truth))) -- and can be demonstrated coherently time and time again..........

 

 

 

 

[Outlaw2747]

I love you guys, but you're depressing me!

 

That's real nice of you to say.....we need more girls like you in this world. Unfortunately I have become very skeptical of the word love, but not in the friend sense that you used it so you are okay. I'm talking about actually being with someone. In fact I am beginning tho think that word is overused, overabused, and overrated. I have survived for YEARS at a time without it. Then again, I know all that will happen is that lonliness will settle in and I will get depressed about it. And my jealousy could return....I am not jealous of anyone or anything at this time but back in high school, I used to hate EVERY couple that isn't in my family that would cross my path. Mainly because most of these girls are with the most sad, worthless, idiotic, cruelest, and most stupid guys ever to walk this earth. I guess they were either blind or just as stupid. Even the nice and smart intelligent girls I adore so much get caught up in this charade and I wonder is love even worth it anymore. Scary thing is, I cannot avoid it and if I try, my hate and sadness will once again run my life....

 

I am having such a hard time relating to the things you guys are saying because I am not that type of girl! And most of my friends aren't either.

 

Guys weren't meant to understand girls and vice versa. We are from Mars and y'all are from Venus (that is actually a good book on relationships). So of course it will be hard for you to relate because we go through this bull dung at a very stressful level and it is different from most guys point of view. Now I am a pessimist, a cynicist, and a skeptic. The statement about your friends not being the type of girl that stresses us out is an overstatement. Why do I say this? I hear it all the time. Maybe they SEEM nice but some of us do research on these "nice" girls and find out the horrible and wicked truth.....people are not what they appear to be. Please take no offense, I am just speaking from experience here.

 

Now i normally would not go out with a disabled or handicapped person for the same reasons that you have, and plus for the simple fact that i have to see them suffer. It isn't nesscessarily that I am scared of them and I do not see them as outcasts. in fact my last girlfriend has this condition (I forget the name.) but it affects your muscles (mainly your feet) where it can cause rolling of the muscles and requires surgery and there was a chance that in the future she may never walk again. That was my exception and it would be so wrong if i left her if it happened. And even though I would have seen her suffer, my love is already there and would not desert her. I went out with her knowing this. But back to the quoting, I just made those statements because I know someone would have asked me something like that eventually....

 

Outlaw, what you said about having to be an a**hole to be successful with girls isn't true per say.

 

You are somewhat correct but the a**holes usually do get it good. Confidence? Nope, that isn't why....I have disproved that already with my last post and by pure experience. It is all about dominance and not caring about certain people. It's like if he messes with the lil "weird" guy in the corner the girl don't care because she is just as ignorant as he is. She feels powerful with him around....she may oppose him messing with people SOMETIMES but this thug or whatever seems to me "cool" or whatever. Right.....keep thinking that. But you are correct in some ways. The nice and good guys, they get attention too....but in ways they do not desire....

 

Negative attention is better than no attention at all to some people. that's why a lot of girls deliberately play themselves up as b*tches! It gets them noticed, and they don't feel so lonely anymore.

 

Girls (and guys) who act all bad and mean and whatever to get attention obviously has alot of growing up to do. Usually it is a completey empty-headed moron with no real purpose in life that does this. Inexcusable.

 

Outlaw, you're on my heart when i say this, but it's for all of you: just because you've tried things before and they didn't work doesn't mean it will always be the same.

 

I thought that was nice of you to say but I won't take it to heart. I'm just trying to do my best to survive everything females throw at me and I am struggling in a losing battle. I am stumped. I have tried everything possible to be happy with someone but i know just as well as the next that it will never work out. Some of us are just not destined to be with "the one" and sadly, i am one of those people. This concept I must learn to accept.

 

All anyone should ever ask of you is that you do what you believe is your best.

 

Here's the problem. No one will ever ask that. EVER. Sometimes are best just isn't good enough. Game over, insert coin, out of quarters, walk away. That's what happens to me when it comes to love. I'm totally stumped.....

 

Well that's it in a nutshell. I really do appreciate the good compliments and your input PADreamer. But I don't take them too seriously...no point. To all of you with their loved ones, congratulations on climbing out of that hole of despair, I am going to be here for quite awhile.

[lonelynshy]

But Outlaw we nice guys are neither from Mars nor Venus,we are from Earth! Hehehe Those Venus people love the exotic Martians but when confronted with Earthlings,they get bored and use them for their own devious ends.

 

You know what. My ex-g/f suddenly called me today. (The only g/f I've ever had). I wanted to scream at her for breaking my heart and jaundicing my attitude to girls but I couldn't. She boasted about how lots of guys like her now(while we were together she used to say that I was the only guy who appreciated her. I was an idiot for not seeing a red flag right then). She then said it wasn't her fault that I was hurt because she just fell out of love with me(!!!) and I should forgive her for dumping me and would I take her back. I finally had the guts to say NO. She's always used me and now wants to use me again, because her next b/f was an ___hole. Well,I have NO sympathy for girls who realize this AFTER the deed has been done. These girls who 'change over a new leaf' make me the most angry because I get no compensation for patiently putting up with their BS and then they expect forgiveness and that everything is hunky-dory. It's not just about my EX,it's about all those nice girls who have a wild time exploring and experiencing and then expect us nice guys to welcome them with open arms like the father welcoming the prodigal son. Sorry girls,it doesn't work that way Not for me anyway.

[Outlaw2747]

I used to just post but I notice I speak better if I support quotes here. But that doesn't mean I can't come up with my own ideas as you can witness in my other posts. But here I am to quote my favorite posters here....

 

But Outlaw we nice guys are neither from Mars nor Venus,we are from Earth! Hehehe Those Venus people love the exotic Martians but when confronted with Earthlings,they get bored and use them for their own devious ends.

 

Nice classification! And about the using statement.....how true that is! I totally emphasized that in earlier posts.

 

She then said it wasn't her fault that I was hurt because she just fell out of love with me(!!!) and I should forgive her for dumping me and would I take her back.

 

If she really loved you, she wouldn't have fell "out of love". I don't believe in that unless the guy was a complete jerk to a girl. But just suddenly falling out of love? NO SUCH THING. She obviously had a sinister motive behind that. And then expects you to forgive her? Yeah, you should forgive her alright...... for being born.

 

If someone ever says "I AM NOT READY FOR A RELATIONSHIP" after they unlavish their undying love for you or they say "I JUST FELL OUT OF LOVE" or "IT JUST HAPPENED", there is obviously some truth hidden behind those red flagging words. Sinister motives are lurking and it is up to you to find them. And heck no would i take her back, just so she can use me again? Sorry, but I wasn't born to be your doormat babe.....You don't just fall out of love or some junk like that and then decide to welcome you back. Pitful.

 

I finally had the guts to say NO.

 

"Hands lonelynshy a gold medal." Right on bro, we may be nice but that doesn't mean we can be complete pushovers either. We can stand our ground and you have just proven that.

 

Well,I have NO sympathy for girls who realize this AFTER the deed has been done.

 

Me neither. No one ever has sympathy when I get my heart sliced in half, and false sympathy is just as bad. So why should I show it?

 

These girls who 'change over a new leaf' make me the most angry because I get no compensation for patiently putting up with their BS and then they expect forgiveness and that everything is hunky-dory.

 

So they feel better about themselves and CLAIM they are straight. In the meantime, we never get anything good out of it. We suffer and it still hurts. So in order to make us feel better, they automatically assume we will take them back immediately. I need to think that over BIG TIME because history could darn well repeat itself. I cannot take any chances. Sorry ladies but my security wall is high up for people who used to do wrong and now decide to do right. Would you trust someone like Bin Laden if he came up to you and said, "Sorry for bombing your country, I will never do it again."? My point exactly. Bad analogy but you get the idea.

 

In short, I am tired of taking fire. I should not have to fear girls like this. I thought it was the other way around. I used to actually take the girls side all the time whenever they got hurt or whatever. But after the things I have been through, I start to see the truth bring notice to itself.

[lonelynshy]

Hey I really like your analogy about bin Laden apologizing. That's exactly how ridiculous it sounds when the so-called nice girl apologizes and expects to be forgiven for all her mistakes.