Need some advice...fast

[Scout]

Ok, the ex initiated contact on day 8...with a very short email asking if I wanted him to "bring my stuff by or ship it". And that was it! I waited a week before I replied, and my email was pretty good (I think)...just said thanks for the reminder, I forgot my stuff was there, could we make arrangements to give each other our things back the next week, because I was busy for the rest of the current week. Didn't hear anything back from him. Than I emailed him a few days later an article that was related to something pertinent to him...I know, I shouldn't have even done that...but he emailed back, and than suggested we get together at a dog park because he was dog-sitting for a friend, and I have a dog, too. So that sort of triggered a couple of friendly emails on both our sides, and...I ended up calling him. He said it was good to hear my voice, and that he hadn't called because he figured I needed some time. He was very cheery and upbeat on the call, and made a casual remark to the effect that he'd like to be friends, and in general, made it sound like he had no interest in us getting back together. I didn't ask him, but his subtle comments were, well, not so subtle that for him, it was over for us. However, he seems to really want to get together and tomorrow is the day we had decided on.

 

Here's how I really feel about him: considerable anger at how he let the relationship die. I feel like I was a good girlfriend for him - and he didn't appreciate it. I'm not sure he even deserves to have me as a friend. I am uncomfortable about seeing him tomorrow, and am not sure if it's the right thing to do. In all honesty, yes, I want him to want me back. But he seems relieved it's over. And that really pisses me off, to tell you the truth. I am scared that I will show that I'm feeling that way tomorrow.

 

It's been 19 days since we've seen each other. I feel like he wants this meeting so that he can reassure himself that I'm fine with everything, and he won't have to feel like the *bleep* that he is.

 

The advice I need is feedback on whether I should cancel the meeting or not, and if so, what I should say. My pride is all I've got left, and I am determined not to let that go, too. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to give their opinion, it is truly appreciated - and needed! This site has been a God-send to me.

[sugarplum_pdx]

Your situation doesn't sound too different from mine, as far as his attitudes and him being "fine" with everything so quickly. My ex is like that too ... when I talk to him, it seems like he is doing just great and doesn't have any regrets or any trouble dealing with the relationship being over.

 

Anyway, I'm getting the feeling that you will be upset if you go through with the meeting. It will probably go just as you suspect -- he will be totally neutral yet friendly, and give you the impression that he is happy with his decision to break up with you. And even if you wouldn't take him back anyway, you will still feel depressed because you want him to want you back. I understand this because I feel that way too. So I think after you see him, you might feel like you're starting over with moving on.

 

You said "I feel like he wants this meeting so he can reassure himself that I'm fine with everything, so he won't have to feel like the *bleep* that he is." Do you want to give him that satisfaction? I know I wouldn't. I'm struggling with that too. At times I've wanted to see my ex, but most of the time I just don't want to even let him know anything about how I'm doing, or give him the idea that everything's "okay" now.

 

I have to get stuff back from my ex as well, and he offered to bring it over. He said "I could just leave it outside if you'd rather not see me." And even though on one hand it killed me to say I don't want to see him (because I do, in a way!), I said I thought he should just drop it off outside. I know I'll feel worse if I see him. I just know it. And I think you probably will too.

 

But you should do what you think is right ... all situations are different. Let us know how it goes.

[sweetharmony]

I know exactly what you are going through. It has been two weeks since my ex and I broke up. I left something at his house, so I e-mailed him casually to ask him to mail it to me (a necklace) so I didn't have to see him. I said, I hope you're doing well, (very light) and he e-mailed me back saying "i'm okay, but not doing well. every time i think about the pain of our separation, i feel helpless and sorrow knowing that you feel the same way and I want to be there to comfort you and protect you. I know the necklace is precious and I wouldn't feel right putting it inan enevelope, would you like me to bring it to you?" WTF????!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well, I e-mailed back two days later and said casually, yeah, maybe ewe could meet somewhere in the middle. i didn't mention anything about pain or sorrow. Well, he suggested meeting at an orchid show and going together, b/c he knows thati love orchids and we did. everything was cheery and happy, until he brought up the fact that he's never been so close with anyone ever and wants to remain friends. it's only two weeks and though I acted like everything was okay, seeing him was fine, until he mentioned the friend thing. I was uttlerly in shock. even though i didn't expect anything from this mtg. in the back of my head, i was hoping he wanted to get back or somehting or try and work it out.

 

well, we talked for a few minutes and told him i was okay and handling the breakup better this week, but it would take me a while to get over. We broke up over a stupid thing- amicable, but over something so stupid, as a comment. He has never gotten close to anyone, even friends and wants to keep this closeness while he may date other women. i told him i'd think about it but that i'd need time. Why is he so stubborn. I think he wants to eventually get back, but is holding me on a string, while he dates other people. My advice to you, son't see him. It's too difficult, esp. if you want to get back w/ him. Way too painful. I know it will be fine until he starts dating other people. Not being able to kiss him was hard!!!!!!!

 

Now, after the mtg. I feel like i'm back to square one in pain, like i'd just been dumped again and the last two weeks of healing were pointless.

[Scout]

Thanks for the feedback...but I still don't have a clue as to what to do. I'm leaning more towards just going...because part of me thinks, we had a closeness, and I should learn how to somehow keep relationships instead of burning bridges. On the other hand, I know that a friendship with him is likely to open me up to being let down again. We broke up because he cancelled plans with me and preferred to do "fun" things with his friends. Why would he treat me any better if we're not even dating? Plus, I simply don't know if I want to be friends with him. Oh, why does life have to still be so confusing even at the age of 34 (soon to be 35, AcK).

 

The easy thing would be if some fantastic guy had come along in the last month, and than I would be much less worried about any of this. But of course, that didn't happen!

 

Don't know what to do...

[sugarplum_pdx]

Scout,

It seems like you're saying you know it might be a mistake, but you want to do it anyway. If that's the case, nobody can tell you what to do. But remember this -- deciding not to see him right now will not necessarily mean you can't ever be friends with him. I just think you need more time before you see him because it's likely to end up hurting you right now. I've had to tell myself exactly the same thing -- whatever my relationship with my ex ends up being, it doesn't have to be decided right now. I can go for months without seeing him, and if we're meant to be friends in the long run, we will be. You can always look him up later when you've had time to move on and do other things. You're not necessarily "burning bridges" if you decide not to meet with him right now.

 

And you're exactly right when you say "why would he treat me any better now that we're not dating?" I realized the same thing yesterday. My ex let me down, and I realized, he's exactly the same. Nothing has changed in the month since we broke up (how could it?). He always let me down when we were together, and he still does now. He's even less likely to treat me well now that there are no obligations. It sucks, but it's true.

 

 

[Scout]

Thanks, well said. It sounds like we are both in the same boat. You're right, I know that I'm not really ready to see him, but I want to see how he acts. He sent me an email a few moments ago asking if we were still on for seeing each other this evening. And I said...yes. Oh Lord, please give me the strength not to freak out as soon as he gets breezy and casual like we never had anything special...

[sweetharmony]

Hey Scout, I just received your advice on my post. Thanks. I just want to warn you, like what i said earlier, expect him to be light and casual- if only for your own sake. I didn't expect my ex to be so light and casual, and I was thoroughly disappointed when i met with him and he said he wantet to be my close friend. After such an intense e-mail, like the one he wrote, i thought maybe he realized he made a mistake and wanted to try, but to no avail. It's so painful. and i think it's so thoughtless on his part to reamin so cool and calm, like nothing happened- like it meant nothing. Just the day before we broke up, he told me that he was falling for me. WTF!!! and he told me he's never had feeling for anyone like he has for me. He said he's never been in love and has never felt anything xloe to it. well, the next day, he made a comment that pissed me off- it was acomment he made before about relationships and negativity) and i couldn't get over it. and we broke up. why do guys run so quickly at the sign of any confict that can't be mended with a little work.

 

Yes, i agree what your ex did to you was rude, cancelling plans, but that could have been something he could have worked on. if he ever wants to get back, you'd need to sset him straght and layt down the rules and tell him you won't put up with that kind of behavior- even as a friend. freidns don't do those things either. Did you break up with him b/c of what happened, or did you fight and he broke up with you-how did it end?

 

Just beware, if you see him and he acts breezy, the pain will hurt almost like the day you broke up. any of the time apart you've had to heal will be wasted. that's how i feel about now. good luck.

[Scout]

I don't blame you for being confused - I mean, the guy wrote you a very tender email about your break-up, and I would have taken that to mean he might want to get back together, too. Than he acts different when you see him. I just think sending mixed messages is a passive form of dishonesty, and I try to avoid people that send them. It hurts at first, but in the long run, you're better off being around people who you know absolutely where you stand.

 

My ex and I just got off the phone - somehow, the plans went from meeting at a dog park, to going hiking up in the mountains this evening (his idea). This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted us to do when we were seeing each other. I'm not sure why now he's up for this...I actually felt pretty calm while talking to him, asked him what he did this weekend, and of course, it was the usual non-stop revelry with his friends. I did get irritated, but tried not to show it too much. I did let fly a comment or two about his indulging himself too much...it irked him, and slightly put him on the defensive, so I changed the subject. It sort of reinforced my growing conviction that he is a boy, not a man, and it's not my problem to make him grow up. I think I can handle this evening. I think he does miss my company, so I will try to keep it light and not get irritated when I hear how much fun he is having with his friends. Maybe we can have a friendship...maybe not...but if he asks, I'm certainly going to say what you mentioned in your post...that the first time he breaks plans, I'm walking. Or something to that effect. I think the No Contact over the last month definitely let him see that I don't put up with crap like that, and maybe that renewed his interest in a friendship with me. No relationship of any kind can really survive without mutual respect.

 

I think I'll just shut up and let him do most of the talking tonight. That's usually the wisest course, isn't it?

[GeeCee]

Hey Scout

 

Not sure that I can add any more here - you seem to have been given sound advice already. Only you can make the decision as to whether you are ready to meet him. If you are anything like me - impatient - you will want to do it. It is interesting that he has chosen to do something that you have wanted to do in the past. This is a good sign. However, I don't know if you are ready emotionally, to meet up with him yet. You said that you said things that made him defensive on the phone. Presumably there is a risk that youwill do the same in person.

 

I agree, expect him to be all chipper and friendly, nothing more. You should also be aiming for the same - getting on great. This has been a good thing for you, you have had a chance to reflect and you are busy, busy, busy.

 

But, really, only go and meet him, if you are emotionally ready - and avoid all relationship talk. And listen more than you talk.

 

Hope this is of help.

 

Good luck.

 

G xx

[Scout]

Thanks to all of you...I will keep you posted on what happens...

[sweetharmony]

good luck and thanks for your advice to me. please let me know what happens. i hope everything turns out well. for me, i'll try the no contact thing with my ex, but he basically left it in my hands to call im when i'm ready to be his friend. so he's waiting for my call. i guess he'll never get it and then he'll never call me. but then it's time to move on, i guess. it hurts, but i'll get over it.

 

for you- keep the conversation light and breez yourself and try and have fun- laugh, smile, and show him the person he fell for.

[Scout]

Well...it was an interesting evening, in that it didn't turn out like I expected at all. I was thinking it had the potential to be a very awkward meeting, but the best term I can think of to describe the mood that eventually unfolded itself was comfortable, and at times even tender, companionship. We went hiking up in the mountains at one of my favorite places, and we stayed until twilight, sitting on some boulders looking out over the evergreen trees, and it just felt really good. One thing I know for sure now is that I always have, and always will, feel some kind of connection with him as someone that was really easy for me to be around.

 

We went out afterwards to get a bite to eat, and I limited myself to one beer (that was a smart thing to do as the night later turned out to be)...than I surprised myself by asking if he wanted to watch a movie at my house. He surprised me by agreeing. And than we watched the movie, and snuggled together on my couch. He stayed over, but I made it clear I didn't want to have sex, and he was fine with that. All we did was kiss.

 

This morning, I was so glad we didn't have sex. I just feel like we're both unsure of where we stand with each other, and that only would have made it more awkward. I know that he cares about me - but I think he's just uncomfortable in the boyfriend role. For whatever reasons. As close and comfortable I felt with him yesterday, it also occurred to me that I really don't know him that well. I realized he keeps a lot to himself.

 

So - what do I feel about all this? I have no idea. I really don't. Am I ready to enter a friendship with him with no thought of getting back together in my mind, even in the back of my mind? No. I'm not. But do I have the desire to start a subtle campaign of getting him back? I don't think so. I honestly don't want to be the one putting all the effort in rebuilding a romantic relationship with us, and I don't get the feeling he wants that. I know he has caring feelings towards me, but he is just obviously more comfortable out of an exclusive relationship with me. At least that's the vibe I'm getting.

 

The last thing he said as he was walking out the door was "Keep in touch." Kind of impersonal, but probably the most appropriate thing to say under the circumstances.

[sweetharmony]

thanks for the update. perhaps this was closure for you. I am in the exact same boat. Last week when I met my ex, it was pretty comfortable and light, but I didn't get the feeling he wanted to ever get back- at least not now. He really wants to be friends, but like you, I don't think I can handle that either and I'm not ready to fight for him and put all my energy in someone so wishy washy. so, i'm not calling him (like you said). If he really has feelings for me, then he'll make that call- he already knows how I feel and where I stand. You should do the same. He knows you still have feelings for him (does he?) and when he can know for sure what he really wants, then don't invest your heart to win him back- it will only cause more pain. i've learned that many times. you can't change someone's mind, they have to realize what they lost, and if they don't, then it's not meant to be. As our exes are in the driver's seat, it is up to them to decide whether they want to come back. the only thing we can do is move on to find someone who will care for us and knows exactly who they want to be with- and treat us like gold. and if they do come back, it will probably be too late.

[Scout]

You know, I actually just wrote him a rather long email that mainly said how good last night was, yet I was still in the dark on many issues, and than - I deleted it before I sent it! After reading your post, I am SO GLAD I DID THAT. You're right - everything you say. Because the bottom line is that even though last night was nice, it still didn't end with him professing his new-found appreciation of what we had. And I can't make him see that, that is something he is either going to develop or not. Waiting, and waiting and more waiting, in the mean-time...no. I can't do that. Life is too short to do that.

 

It hurts - I so want to meet that one guy that's going to partner up with me in this adventure we call life. I'm really ready to have another person at my side to do that. But will he get here any faster if I'm pining over someone else? Logically, I know the answer is no. So, I'll have to just give up and let go. I know the next several weeks will be hard as I try to formulate the resolve to do this, but that's what this board is for, and you keep me posted too, on any struggles you might have day-to-day or whatnot with your similar situation.

 

Thanks so much for being there and your support![/i]

[sugarplum_pdx]

Hey, I can relate a lot to what both you and sweetharmony are saying. I am in a similar situation with my ex. Right now we are not making any plans to see each other, but he mentioned it yesterday ... he said something about getting together soon. Right now I don't want to do that, but I imagine that eventually I'll do it. And I have a feeling that it'll be similar to what happened with your ex -- it'll be comfortable and nice, but nothing will change. I know that he cares about me -- he told me when we were breaking up that it's NOT because he doesn't care about me or find me attractive... he just doesn't think it's working out for us to be in a committed relationship. So I guess we have to accept it when they tell us that. As you said, there's no sense fighting to get back into a relationship, when we'd be the only ones fighting for it. They know we care ... they know that they have the power in this situation. If they wanted a relationship they'd make it known.

 

I also can totally relate to how you wrote the email to him, trying to clarify your feelings and his ... and then deleted it. For some reason we feel like if we say everything just right, somehow we'll make them understand, and they'll figure out what they want ... like have a revelation. But they won't! If they wanted what we wanted, we wouldn't need to prompt them to say it. They'd do it on their own. It sure is hard to accept that sometimes. But you did a good thing by not sending the email.

 

Hang in there and keep us posted!

[sweetharmony]

i know about the e-mail thing too! I too, wrote up an e-mail last week, explaining what I was thinking/ feeling, even though I had already siad those things when we broke up. I felt that if I just reiterated it, maybe it would be easier for him to understand. But I just kept the e-mail, never sent it. I guess it helped me to write the letter, b/c it was a way of venting and getting my emotions out- like a journal. sometimes it's good to write and never send.

 

i still feel like I don't have closure w. him. Because one day he was professing that he was falling in love and the next day we broke up. he says he cares for me more than anyone and feels closer to me than anyone, but cannot see a future w/ me b/c of various differences. Doesn't make sense! If they cannot work out these small conflcits, then they never will be able to and like you said, Scout, let them be someone else's problem. and like I said in a previous e-mail, My 30 yr old ex has never been in a relationship longer than two mos and never was close w/ anyone! maybe he'll figure it out eventually that there isn't a perfect person out there. that soul mates really don't exist- nothing is ever ladida all the time. reality isn't exciting. he'll need to learn it or he'll be very lonely. relationships are hard work and it takes both to make it work, not just one, and i'm certainly tired of being the one investing my all without compromise.

[sugarplum_pdx]

Exactly, sweetharmony ... these guys have to learn how to compromise in a relationship. I told my ex when we were breaking up that if he couldn't make it work with me, he probably couldn't make it work with anyone. He agreed with me. There was nothing really wrong with our relationship from his side. He couldn't pinpoint anything that was my fault. I told him he wasn't going to find anyone easier to live with than me. All he could say is that I might be right, and he might regret his decision. But he still doesn't want to try, and that just makes no sense to me. Why would anyone want to give up what they know is a good thing? He's 29 and eventually he's going to want to settle down. I thought he wanted that already. He said numerous times that he wanted to buy a house with me. I used to question him about that because I didn't want to buy a house with someone unless he was SURE about things. He would always say that he figured we'd be together a very long time, and he felt like we were married already. He said he wouldn't even talk about that kind of thing with me if he didn't feel sure about it. So then what happened?! Grr.

 

Anyway, I'm just venting now, hope Scout doesn't mind me taking over her thread. Hope you guys are doing okay today.

[Scout]

I'm tired of it, too. One thing I'm working on, is to always immediately walk away the minute I meet someone who makes comments in the beginning about not being relationship material. They are spelling it out for you, and you just have to take that as a favor, if possible, and don't pursue a relationship with them, no matter how wonderful their other qualities are.

 

Because bottom line is, there is nothing wrong with us wanting committed relationships! It doesn't mean we're needy! We only get needy when we're not getting what we need, right? And we don't get what we need with people who display pretty early on anti-relationship tendencies. What kind of sucks about my situation is that he didn't display anything like that in the beginning. I think he really wanted a relationship. But, his other desires and preferences for an independent, still hang & party with the buddies all the time, lifestyle seemed to won over. I am still having a problem understanding why I couldn't be included in those ventures either, I would hope he wasn't cheating on me. I don't think he was, but you never know. Again, these are little questions that still pop into my head, but ultimately not important enough to get closure on. We certaintly can't depend on the ex to answer those questions for us, but luckily, the forum here helps!

[Scout]

Oh, and sugarplum, feel free to take over the thread! Your situation certainly sounds frustrating, and you probably need to vent or it will drive you nuts. I hate it when they can't pinpoint the reason - almost as much as I hate it when they do. No but seriously, it's yet another time when they don't make an effort at something - can't they at least make the effort when it's THE LAST THING WE WILL EVER ASK THEM TO DO. JUST TELL US WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD PLEASE SO WE DON'T DRIVE OURSELVES CRAZY TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. oops, now I'm back to venting...

[sweetharmony]

sugarplum, i feel your confusion and pain. one minute they're talking about commitment and the next minute they get scared.

 

I saw the red flags with my ex when on the first date he told me that he doesn't see himself ever getting married or having kids. it irked me, but i ignored it. well, at 30 and he feels that way, i should have seen those red flags. when we talked about it at some point I asked him, do you really feel that way? and he evaded the question. he said he's not sure and that he just feels that he's looking for his soul mate and doesn't think he'll ever find that and he doesn't want to settle. well, i got pissed, b/c basically he was telling me- "okay you're not the one," (at least from my perspective). Now I am mature and i don't believe you can know so early in the relationship, which is why i would never even bring that topic up so early, but he brought it up, so i felt like it was a disclaimer and it kind of warned me to stear clear. he basically believes that having children is too much sacrifice and responsibility and why should he spend so much time, money and effort. but he said it's not totally out of the picture. Well, my thoughts were, well, i'm definitely not wanting to get married anytime soon, but eventually I do and want to have kids and why should i waste my time w/ someone who is so unsure about his career, marriage, commitment, kids, etc... what a waste of time that is. i don't want to spend the entire relationship trying to change his mind- too much effort. good riddance. now, i'm thinking much clearer. he's a great guy w/ so many valubale qualities, but so unsure about everything in life- very pessamistic about people in general. and he also feels that he wouldn't want to bring a kid into this messed up world. well, too much negativity. i don't need that in my life anyway. sorry, just venting again.

 

sorry-now i'm taking over this thread. just needed to get my frustration out. it helps me get stronger and realize that I shouldn't settle either. I'm not looking for someone perfect, just someone who know a little of what he wants in life, with a positive attitude about his future. is that too much to ask?

 

sugarplum- he talked about buying a house with you and then split? tell us a little more of your sitation, it's sounds a little more intense. men are so confusing sometimes.

[sugarplum_pdx]

Yeah, my ex was another one of those who put up plenty of red flags that I chose not to see. He didn't say he didn't want a relationship, but he said things about how he tends to make rash decisions that hurt people. He said he doesn't intend to cause people pain, but he's aware that he has on various occasions (in terms of relationships). He also showed that he can be very indecisive, changing his mind about who he wants to be with. He had a girlfriend before me that he dated for 8 months, then told her he wasn't in love with her, then came back and said he'd made a mistake, and then they broke up again after 4 months. At that time, he started spending time with another old gf, who ended up telling him she wanted to get back together officially, and then he turned her down, and she was destroyed. These are the kinds of things about his past that let me know how hurtful he can be in relationships. But somehow we tend to think we will be the one who's different ...

 

And in some ways it seemed like things WERE different with us. We were together 3 years and a few months ... and like I said, he talked about buying a house with me. I think he was more serious with me than he'd been with anyone. I think I was the first girlfriend he had where there really were no complaints he could list about the other person. But he'd also say things about how he doesn't believe in marriage. sweetharmony, he said things like yours did about this being a messed up world and marriage is just a stupid legal or religious tradition that doesn't mean anything. Very cynical. And he wasn't romantic at all. But I still thought he was committed to me. He once told me that it was a huge deal for him to move in with me because he never would do that with someone he wasn't VERY serious about. Even up until a month before we broke up, he still made comments about buying a house ... he said if he got this new job, we should do it. Then everything just fell apart. He didn't get the job. He met some other girl at work (who's only 21, and he's 29) and started hanging out with her. Started sneaking around on me, planning to meet up with her, etc. I found his chat logs with her and confronted him, and that's when we broke up. He said he thought our relationship was over for a while but didn't know how to tell me. He gave me so many mixed signals in the past few months. And continued to do so even after we broke up ... saying he didn't know if he made the right decision. It all just sucks.

 

Well, you asked for more of the story so there it is ... I also posted a thread in the "Healing after breakup/divorce" forum titled "Setback today, need encouragement" if you want to read that.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.