EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

S&D and Scout,

 

 

I dont think that we necessarily disagree on the facts. However, I think we have one view of the situation that is "the glass is half full" and another with the view as "the glass is half empty." And IF your ultimate goal is to get the ex back you need to be positive (that doesn't mean delusional), and every interaction at this point, whether written or verbal, needs to be supportive, positive, and understanding. Anything less will create a greater distance between the two of you. To continue fruitless debates will only continue the cycle of separation, where each interaction drives the other person further away. Right now, insofar as your interactions with the exgf is concerned, the focus should solely be on her. All other times, the focus is on you. ONLY once you have gotten your ex to commit more emotionally to a reconciliation, will there be time to introduce your issues for negotiation. Until then, why create your own obstacles? She will just resist.

 

Please don't interpret what I am about to say as justifying the actions of our exs, as I too get extremely frustrated with their behavior. However, if we are to win the war here, we have to understand their point of view….ACCEPT IT (because we aint going to change it), then rise above it and be the more mature person in any response we provide to them. In some instances, the more mature response is to bit our tongue, and let things simmer. Sure they are being selfish right now. But, remember, FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW, WE were the selfish ones at the end of the relationship that required them to give more than they received. Our selfishness was the reason for the break-up – the reason they had to initiate this ugly, emotionally charged and painful process. We are the reason for their pain. They are now taking the time, space, energy that was previously devoted to us, and are working on themselves. They are now putting themselves first, just as we did during NC immediately following the break-up. Conceptually, I don't see anything wrong with this. Sure it is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING TO US that the reconciliation does not progress faster, but guess what??…WE ARENT IN CONTROL!! At this stage of a reconciliation process, we have to give up control of the process, in order that we can regain it later in the relationship. The sooner we truly accept this, the sooner we can mitigate our own frustration. What did I just say? We can control our own frustration? YES, by altering our expectations and truly accepting that which we CANNOT control, we can mitigate our own frustration. I am just learning how to do this, as I previously just understood the concept.

 

To debate "who is being more selfish", "who is being selfish now", "whose selfishness caused the break-up" or point out the number of 'I's vs "We's" in a letter, is a battle that CANNOT be won, and is completely off point (if I may be so blunt). And if you think you won, what will you have really achieved, except a momentary release of your anger. Even if this is a debate that your ex wants to engage in, take the higher ground. Be more mature and don't take the bait. Avoid furthering the cycle of escalation. I would suggest a simple response "Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings with me. I appreciate that writing your letter must have been difficult. I also recognize that you are putting forth the effort to heal and improve yourself, as I continue to do. Perhaps we can talk again at some point in the future."

 

Remember focus on the war and not all the battles! Sometimes this requires us to act in a way that is counter-intuitive, and against our training. To bring this full-circle and back to S&Ds letter. I think anybody would love to receive a letter from the exgf that essentially says the she is considering a reconciliation, but just needs more time to improve herself so that she is ready to give 100%. What dumpee, who desires a reconciliation, would not want to receive such a letter? S&D, five months is a long time, no doubt about it. What is 5 to 8 months in the span of a lifelong relationship? Again, only you know your how much patience you have. This all comes back to IF YOU WANT IT and DO YOU BELIEVE.

 

Yes, you were put through the wringer…kicked out of your home, staying with friends, etc. That sucked – and I feel for you, I really do! But I think you need to take this extra time to heal more and forgive her for acting the way she did, otherwise you will carry that animosity into your next relationship (either with her or your next gf). At the same time, you need to forgive yourself for acting in anyway that you may feel guilty - you cannot expect that she will do this for you. Continue to vent here, S&D.

[Scout]

Ok, I like Fletch's email much better. Really, it's PERFECT.

 

Fletch, theoretically I understand what you're saying regarding everything else. But what it requires is an almost saintly patience. At the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves if our ex deserves such a monumental effort on our part. And it's a very hard question to examine. Unfortunately, I don't think many of us give enough serious thought to asking ourselves this, because the answer might be one we don't want to admit.

 

I have no idea what the answer is in Shocked's situation. We only have his side of the story. But I've been following his posts for sometime, and frankly, I was really, really underwhelmed by his ex's latest email. Especially compared with how articulate and thoughtful he comes accross in all his posts - not just about his situation but when he posts at other threads.

 

Anyway, I truly admired what you had to say, and I espouse it - provided that our ex is indeed worthy of such a noble approach.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Cool, a real-time response! Thanks Scout. You did hit the nail on the head with he ultimately question - "Do I want my ex back and is he/she worth the struggle?" Only we can answer these questions for ourselves. Maybe a counselor who hears both side of the story can provide assistance in understanding issues - but they will steer clear of recommending a decision (unless abuse is involved of course). This is why I try to stay out of giving advice on this question.

 

Sometimes many of us have not taken the time to heal after a break-up, and we dont approach this question with a clear head. We are still chasing our exs to fill the void, and sometimes just get caught-up in the chase. Thats why NC for a good few months, as painful as it is, is really the right course of action.

[shockeddismayed]

hey guys.

 

Some very thought provoking posts there. Thanks.

 

So let me tell you about the weekend.

 

Last night I ended up going out... nice night, went to a bbq. Nothing special. When I got home I was feeling a bit introspective so I got out the pen and paper, put on some music, went out on my balcony for some "fresh air" and just chilled... I ended up in a very charitable mood... and started thinking just exactly like Fletch's post above. I started to REALLY try and see things from her perspective one last time. It helped me remind myself that this has been a two way street... for the last little while I was focussing only on my frustration and resentment. So although I gave plenty of airtime to her concerns earlier, I realized that just cuz' I'd really taken them to heart, doesn't mean that she is fully healed.

 

Anyway, I woke up today feeling the need to go to church... I guess sometimes I just need some peace that reminds me of my upbringing.

 

Just as I was leaving, EX calls. I didn't pick up. Then when I get back to my car she's called again. No messages... but I say what the heck and return her call.

 

She asks where I am, and I say in the church parking lot (down the street from her/our house). She asks me to come over so I do.

 

We end up having coffees and chatting. It was relationship chat, but it wasn't really intense. The atmosphere was one of disclosure. She tried to tell me about her letter... wanted to be sure that I got it... blah blah. I asked her to explain it better and she said basically that she wants to try again, but that she just isn't ready... worries that she doesnt yet have the strength to handle the hard work ahead. She says it sucks, cuz she keeps feeling almost there, then she calls me, says something dumb, upsets me... and then she ends up not being able to deal with the emotions that come up.

 

We chatted for a long time... she soaked my shirt with tears. But I dunno... as I said, I was feeling charitable, so I didn't really mind. I did end up telling her both reactions I had to the letter. She accepted it well and instead of being angry just said "I'm not being selfish... I'm just trying to build my energy" and similar remarks. She also told me more about "the other guy" and how once she'd hung out with him even once, she started to feel her feelings for me coming back... that in the end, he ended up being a friend to her and telling her that he thought she still had feelings for me. She said the whole situation helped her realize that she wasn't looking at our relationship with much maturity, and that she would need to change that before trying again. That being apart from me is helping her have a more realistic expectation of what a healthy relationship is all about.

 

Anyway, the interaction was pretty nice. We decided to sit outside with a beer and enjoy the sun. Both of us were complimenting each other and flirting. After a while we went back inside and I was getting ready to go. We ended up holding each other and then kissed. It was obvious that we both wanted something to happen, but she just looked at me and said "we probably shouldn't yet... I don't want to complicate things, hurt you, etc. We should save it for later when we can both feel 100% comfortable that we have built our trust back up" We flirted a bit more and the I said "yeah you are probably right, I don't think you are ready for the wave of feelings that it might bring... you are still in love with me". She went beet red and was speechless. I said "what, did I hit the nail on the head?". She welled up with tears, smiled and said "yeah, wow... which one of us is the psychologist". I gave a devil smile back and said, ok... well, I've gotta go. She said "ok, see you later".

 

Anyway... that was the gist of it. Need to go for some exercise. I'll check back in later.

[craigblitz]

Dude we are living in parellel lifes.... Buddy that was handles smooth and great. Awsome awsome awsome...

[Mun]

Can I say " I told you so" ? Shocked I am happy things are going well for you. Keep it up.

 

I do the same thing your ex does where I say the wrong thing and then find myself 10 steps back. I'm not ready.

 

Hang in there!

[shockeddismayed]

Hi Guys....

 

Thanks for stopping in.

 

Craig: Just posted on your post... looks like things are going well.... now go get some sleep... this is going to be a bumpy ride to happiness.

 

Muneca: You can definitely say "I told you so". I just get a little annoyed at her pace, but what can you do. By the way Muneca... I wish you all the best with your EX. I find it hard to believe that you are capable of saying the wrong thing.

 

One thing I didn't mention was that she talked about being afraid a lot today. I told her I was too... that it would be a leap of faith. I think I've said that to her many times before... but oh well.

 

Man... I don't know what came over me today. I had patience (or indifference?) out the ying-yang. Do you know that my EXGF even finally admitted to me that she DID have sex with "the other guy" about a month after we broke up 5 months ago. I guess I'd already assumed that she had even though she denied it. Anyway.. I didn't react with much anger at all. She said "I wanted to tell you b/c you would need to know that if we get back together.. I don't want secrets".

 

Anyway... up until this point, I was her first and only (although I had much more experience prior to her), so I sorta knew that she would need to figure out what she told me today which was, "It is no fun at all when you aren't in love... and when you are still in love with someone else, it feels terrible". Man alive... imagine her being 29 years old before she figures that out!

 

However I did tell her that I wasn't at all surprised by what she'd done... but I kinda chuckled and said, "this is like a bad movie how predictable you are, but you should have been smart enough to know it wouldn't be good without needing to experience it first hand." I went on to say that I didn't care that she'd broken up with me, that it was still infidelity in my book. She said, "yeah, well that is how it felt to me too... but it is also what made me realize that my heart is still with you."

 

She started asking me about whether I'd been with anyone else... I played it very aloof and wouldn't tell her anything. I figured I'd keep her guessing, and I could tell she didn't like that much. I also made sure to mention that the EX-EX (who EX is quite jealous of) is coming back to town in a few weeks.... figured that she should know that if she wants to avoid competition, she should start figuring out what she wants soon.

 

PS: Don't worry...I won't get a third party involved in this unless I mean it legitimately.

[Scout]

Ok, after following several similar stories on eNotalone for some time now, plus having dealt with my own situation with the ex, my take is that no matter how positive your last visit with her was, she is still sitting on the fence. She was alarmed by the NC you put in place after your phone call, thus was spurred to write an email to gage where you are at right now. She didn't get immediate gratification of knowing you were still in the game, so she stepped up her contact to phone calls, then a visit where she gave a little affection and encouragement - yet remains ambiguous. Oh, and threw in a little new info about how she has slept with someone else during the interim.

 

People: is it really supposed to be this hard??

[craigblitz]

I agree with ya scout but at the same time, there are issues people need to deal with. I thinks his ex is being very selfish, but then at the same time I can see where and why she would want to deal with her issues first.

 

Besides anything easy ain't worth a darn (enotalone censors)

[shockeddismayed]

Ok, after following several similar stories on eNotalone for some time now, plus having dealt with my own situation with the ex, my take is that no matter how positive your last visit with her was, she is still sitting on the fence. She was alarmed by the NC you put in place after your phone call, thus was spurred to write an email to gage where you are at right now. She didn't get immediate gratification of knowing you were still in the game, so she stepped up her contact to phone calls, then a visit where she gave a little affection and encouragement - yet remains ambiguous. Oh, and threw in a little new info about how she has slept with someone else during the interim.

 

People: is it really supposed to be this hard??

 

All very true Scout.

 

Certainly there are two sides to this coin.

 

Heads: She REALLY is that upset at what happened and is coming around... her honesty is (as she said) her just wanting to clear the air if we are to try again. Her mixed emotions represent her returning feelings and some fear that it will all fall apart again with her getting hurt in process. She is seeing her counsellor in the hopes of convincing herself that she is secure enough to give this another go.

 

Tails: She is a manipulative, confused little girl who still doesn't know what she wants. She is stringing me along while she figures it out.

 

Don't worry... I've learned from my last interactions through June that I need to stay on the outside of this little one person boxing match. I'm going to let it play itself out without puppeteering on my part, until I can trust her intentions.

 

I think I will throw a little modified-NC her way. I'm not entirely comfortable with her attitude so far.

 

But one thing is certain... the power dynamic is shifting... and I won't let her swing it back in her favour.

 

I have half a mind to send her a little email: "Sorry about my mixed messages yesterday. I still need to absorb some of the information you've told me. It is difficult to know what I can trust."

 

But that might be a bit much. Probably better to just keep quiet.

[craigblitz]

Bro.. silence at this point is your best friend.... Why show your cards at a poker game... As you play you learn what signals to trust and which to toss to the side... Does that make sense.... Plus if you tell her that she might clam up a little in your next interaction knowing that you are reading everything she says.

 

You are doing great, she still has feelings. There are no need for games, keep looking out for #1, that is you and if she comes along for the ride great if not then she will just be a memory of you past.

[Scout]

Don't send that email. Silence is your strength right now. I honestly want you to win at this, and not get strung along.

 

Shocked, I went back to your original post and noticed that your ex is getting her PH.d in Psychology. Yikes. Sometimes, I think these people overthink everything. And did you know the rate of divorce among people in the psychology profession is supposedly pretty high? You have to wonder why.

 

You also have to wonder why they pursue this field to begin with. I do feel many genuinely want to help others, but I also think an even larger percentage want to figure out the human mind/emotions so that they have an edge on the rest of us! This category definitely falls into "manipulative". I also noted you said she was a very serious girl, a virgin who never partied. Again, indicates someone to whom control is VERY important.

 

And one thing is for sure: your girl has had most of the control ever since the break-up.

 

You will know she is serious about a reconciliation if she starts to relinquish the control. In fact, both sides need to relinquish the idea of control. Power struggles are the kiss of death to any relationship.

[shockeddismayed]

lol...

 

Scout you have a better handle on this than you even know.

 

I would correct one thing... considering I've met many an aspiring young shrink (EXGFs school friends). I'd say that the second category are not trying to get a leg up on the rest of us... they are trying to figure themselves out. In my EXGF's program the majority of them are confused young women who just can't enjoy themselves.

 

Yes... big time on the overanalysis. Actually she and I talked about this yesterday.... it was more along the lines of "man, all the girls in my program have difficulties with their spouses/boyfriends... I am realizing just how difficult a professional choice this is going to be... it is so hard to shut it off when the day is done... I'll need someone patient who will help support me on the tough days". I told her that while she is right, it can't be an excuse... many people have to learn to shut off work when they get home... it is a skill. Heck, if I'd learned to do that effectively a little earlier, we probably wouldn't be here in the first place.

 

But you are right... control is something that needs to be relinquished. We have talked about that.

 

For now though I am going to take your advice (and Craig's) keep a safe distance and just ride this out.

 

Don't worry... I've given the email idea the ix-nay. I realize that would be a dumb move.

 

My best move? I nice long run, followed by dinner.

 

Later.

 

S&D

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Wow, some good activity in the last few days for Craig and S&D. Kudos to both of you. Perhaps we are figuring out how to ride this rollercoaster without getting dizzy afterall.

 

S&D – I'm glad you didn't send the e-mail. To add another vote – silence/ limited NC is the best medicine for now. Let her lead with most contact. If you need to initiate a simple, singular e-mail periodically (once every week or so), then go ahead. I have a feeling this next stretch is a fairly long one, so prepare yourself mentally. As we have all agreed, she is self-ish and confused right now. But this is an affliction that all of exs seem to have. Our best move is to stay out of their way. (BTW – If I hadn't read these threads to realize this a common trait of the dumper, I would have probably drop-kicked my ex in a fit of anger by now [thats a football term, ladies, I am not promoting physical violence]. So this knowledge has been helpful for me at least to deal with my frustrations.)

 

One thing on the sex/dating topic…I'll add my 2 cents. My view is that anything that happens between you and another chick during this break-up period, whether it be dating or sex, is your business and does not need to be disclosed to the ex. I agree that it was manipulative for her to disclose her encounter, and she only did so to induce you to volunteer the same. Don't take the bait.

[shockeddismayed]

I agree Fletch.

 

I think she wants to know what I've been up to for a few reasons:

1) Part of her is jealous.

2) Part of her is guilty and secretly hopes I've done something to even the stakes.

3) Part of her has always feared the EX-EX... I think she'd almost see it as a relief if I had done something and still wanted to come back.

 

Yesterday she was almost inviting me to do whatever I wanted until we got back together.

 

Then later when I gave her the impression with a few sly smiles and shoulder shrugs that I already had, she was smiling and gawking saying "oh my gosh, with who?"

 

As you say... she's probably such a bundle of mixed emotions right now it does me no good to say anything either way.

 

Steady as she goes....

[shockeddismayed]

Well...

 

Here it is... what I imagine is the final update.

 

First, let me bring you up to speed. I'd been only posting by PM.

 

So I left off at the end of July. She had sent a very selfish email... I'd gone over to hear her out. She talked about getting back together, but wanted me to know the truth.... told me about the other guy, but that she had effectively broken things off with him in May. That since that time it was all about us. We almost slept together that day, but decided against it... I left on good terms with her saying "it will only be a few weeks for me to get my head straight, and I love you".

 

So a month went by, then I saw her by chance while I was driving my new car. The next week I give her a call to make light chit chat. She invites me out for a beer. I go... I teach her to drive standard, we laugh and have a good time. Then go for our beer. She brings up us... starts talking about what would need to change, that she is struggling with trusting we could work things out. Blah, blah. I'm pretty patient with her, but I also let her know in no uncertain terms that she needs to figure this out, she has had plenty of time. I tell her that I don't find this wishy washy stuff attractive. That after so many months of feeling strung along, it is hard to believe and trust her feelings. She kinda panics and tells me she does love me, but that I can't expect her to come running back overnight. I tell her I don't expect that, but she also can't expect me to wait forever without her making a decision. I wasn't all that cool in this interaction, telling her I felt like she is missing her chance, and that I am getting too jaded to believe her anymore. I also told her that she was leaving me no choice but to force myself to move on, and that I wanted someone who could return my love without confusion... that she was proving to me she wasn't that girl. She tells me repeatedly that this is just about us, her feelings for me are back, but that she just needs to feel safe to come back. At this point she has been crying for hours, and that last statement finally started to break me down. I had tears in my eye when I said "after all this time and patience, what else can I do to make you safe?". Right after that, I moved in and we had a fantastic kiss.... then she broke away from it and was crying, saying "that was wonderful, but I just can't do this yet". I shook my head in disbelief and stormed off.

 

She called that night and left a message saying she was sorry, that her feelings for me are strong, but that she just wasn't ready yet. I didn't respond.

 

She calls me the next day 3 times... I finally picked up the last call. She says "did you say last night that if I want to work things out when I get back from my trip (she'd be away for 3 weeks), that I will have to compete with other girls, and that you expect me to not date other people?" I say, "that isn't quite what I said, but why are you asking me this". She wouldn't give a real answer, so I said "yeah, I do expect you to be single if you try to win me back... that after all of this time, I have to force myself to consider that you aren't coming back, to move on, and that you will have to catch up and win me back if that is what you want". She said "so you just want to see comittment from me?" I said yeah, I expect you to know what you want, if I don't see that, there is no point in my trying anymore. She said she understood, and that she would call me when she got back from her trip.

 

A week later she sends me an email: "I am so sorry for what I've done to you…. I've been giving you false hope while I sit on the fence, and that isn't fair. I need to love you enough to let you go…. I panic when I think of losing you. It hurts me to think I couldn't trust your love, I don't know why I couldn't. On the other hand, I don't feel strongly about the "other guy", but I do trust that he loves me. I have unresolved feelings for you and for him, and I feel terrible for not being honest with you. But most importantly I have unresolved issues of myself, and I need to focus on that. I love you and always will." I didn't respond.

 

A week later she emails back. "I'm in Cuba now, please disregard the dramatics of my last message. I need to talk to you when I get back, please pick up my call". I didn't respond.

 

She gets back and calls my sister on Sunday. She is crying, trying to find out whether I am dating others, asks whether my sister thinks we could ever be friends. My sis gives non-answers all around.

 

She calls on Sunday night, but leaves no message. She calls on Monday morning, leaving a cheery message asking me for coffee. Even thougth I have this hunch I should let her sit and stew... that she is just testing the waters again, I take the advice of people who care about me and decide "what the heck, I'll go listen". So I call her back that evening and accept the invitation.

 

This post is getting long, so I'll break it up. If you are still with me here, godbless, and go get a coffee.

[Scout]

When are you guys going to have coffee together???

[craigblitz]

man this is like when a kicker goes to kick the winning field goal and then.................... a timeout is called then cuts to commercial... Son of gun... ok we have made it this far bro.....

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I am glued to the computer screen waiting for the next chapter. I feel like the audience at the end of the "Truman Show" (the Jim Carey movie).

[bluetrap]

Ahhhhhhh!!!! After this 6-month saga ... I can't wait to hear how it ends. This is better than watching TV!!

[Scout]

You know, I re-read the beginning of this thread, and it's interesting to note that she said at the beginning, she needed six months to make a decision. And here it is, six months later...

[Mun]

Ok you all made me laugh

 

I got my coffee... what's the rest of the story?

*waiting*

[cruuk]

Maybe his mouse slipped and he hit his head on the keyboard.

[shockeddismayed]

Sorry gang.... priorities at work.

 

I couldn't get to this till now.....

 

So she swings by my place. We walk over for a coffee. I make light chat. Once we are seated, she tells one funny story, then looks at me and says "look, I'm not sure if I have anything to say about us tonight…" I smile and say "don't worry, it's no problem… let's just have fun". So we chat for another hour, laugh, flirt, etc. I ask her if she'd like to see my new place. We get there, listen to music, she flirts more… searches my entire apartment to see what I have in my fridge, my cupboards, etc (she did this the first night we met) all the while she is smiling at me as if to say "remember, it's like beginning again". So we sit down and chat on the couch for a while… listen to music. The only significant point that she brings up is about life-long friends of mine who dated and then were never friends again. She says they should be, and I just say "yeah I suppose, but those types of things don't usually happen". Anyway the night goes really well… and finally she decides to go home.

 

[OK SO FAR PERFECTLY THE WAY IT SHOULD BE GOING]

 

I get up to walk her to the door, we hug… then she kinda looks at me strangely and asks "what do you think is holding us back?". I turn it back on her and say "well I've talked so much, I'd rather hear you". She starts in:

 

Her: "On my side, fear that we'll have our old bad patterns" Me: I agree, saying it would take a lot of communication.

 

Her: It's hard for me to get over our interactions before the breakup. Me: I know I didn't treat you properly, I've told you time and time again that I understand what I did wrong. Her: Yes, but it was both of our faults, I didn't communicate well.

 

Her: You may never be able to trust me again. Me: It would be tough, but workable.

 

Her: I sometimes feel threatened by your conviction about things... that I am a stubborn person and just can't let you win. Me: I know... there are things there we'd need help to work on.

 

Her: I fear you'd try to get even with me after all that I've done. Me: I can't do that… I've already needed to forgive you even to be here. I also needed to forgive you in order to forgive myself. I'm not proud of what happened to us to bring us here, and I am very sorry about it. But what I find tough is not the acts… not the breakup, or the other guy, or kicking me out of the house, or any of that…. What is so hard to get over is the stringing me along since… the lies you've told… that is what is hard to swallow, that you didn't treat me like an adult able to make his own decisions.

 

She sits back down. She wants to know if I could ever trust her again. I say I could, but she needs to prove herself to me… that her last long email about "needing to let me go" had me reading between the lines, because I am finding it difficult to trust your words. She asks what I mean… I say "well, it seemed like you were saying that you are still lying to me about things, but were too afraid to come right out and say it, but I'm probably just imagining things". I look over at her and I can tell that I've just hit the nail on the head. I look at her and she starts to cry.

 

So I say "so you're STILL lying to me about him?" She says "yes, I saw him just before my trip." I ask "what do you mean". She's crying... I know what that means, so I say "tell it to me like an adult, I deserve your honesty. She says, "I slept with him".

 

I don't yell, but she knows I am upset. I say "how could you continue to string us both along, have you told him how you feel about me?". She says yes, but that he just insisted on visiting her at her sisters, and that she couldn't say no because she can't speak up for herself these days… that she has been trying to end things, but he keeps showing back up and won't take no for an answer. I call BS and say "give me a break, you had no trouble dumping me".

 

She says, "I don't understand why you are so angry, it doesn't mean anything… You've probably had sex with all sorts of girls since the breakup". I look at her and say "you really want the truth?.... the truth is I haven't, that I loved you, but more importantly respected myself enough to know I wasn't ready. But what hurts the most is that you've been lying to me and stringing me along for months. The last time we spoke, you said you hadn't seen him since May, and that things were done romantically since April!".

 

She continues on… "I know I said that... but I end things in the summer, I spent 6 weeks with no emails or anything from him. And I was just looking as this as a farewell contact. I asked him not to come, but he insisted, drove all the way there, and then stayed over. Well anyway, it was just sex… I am so sorry, it's not going to happen again."

 

We argue for a little while longer, it comes out that she hasn't really ended things with him, just told him that she can't start anything new b/c of her feelings for me, but she knows that won't be enough for him to give up. In the end, my main point to her was that she has repeatedly broken my trust and lied about it… that she showed me no respect, shown him no respect, and worse yet, she's shown no SELF respect in order to simply just be alone and figure things out without involving either of the men interested in her. She continues to cry and tell me that she does love me, but that she was confused and still was. She says she knows I'll probably never want to speak with her again, and I don't disagree.

 

Then I just asked her to leave.

 

She called back later that night, and she rehashed the whole thing again… saying how sorry she was, that she can't figure things out… that she wants me to be happy… blah, blah. She says she knows her behaviour was destructive, but that she just couldn't trust me. I ask her why she didn't trust me, and she says she doesn't know. I tell her that the difference between her and I is that I CHOSE that she was the one for me a long time ago and thereforeeee have always been willing to work through things and that she never did. She challenges me and says "then why didn't you marry me?". I am shocked and say "are you serious… it can't be that, you KNEW I couldn't afford it…. And I didn't want to buy you a ring until I could support you the way I was supposed to… your family has money, so I didn't want you to think I was just doing it out of security. And I TOLD YOU ALL of this, we BOTH talked about it and you knew I was building up the money for a ring right before the breakup… we went shopping for it and that is why you broke it off! Are you telling me now that it was a factor?". She replies that she isn't sure, she is just confused and doesn't know what to think anymore. She doesn't understand why things ended up this way, doesn't understand why she couldn't trust me, especially given how strongly she feels about me.

 

I told her then she could have the last word, b/c I had nothing else to say. She says she loves me, but just wasn't ready to try again… she won't hesitate to look me up if she feels ready, but that she knows she had no right to be here tonight given that she wasn't ready. She knows I probably won't entertain any more of her BS, but if she can ever get rid of this confusion she will try again. She said she knows I am healthy enough to move on, and that she isn't. She knows that I will likely haunt her thoughts for the rest of her life, and that she loves me.

 

I didn't respond to that. There was a big silence, then we both hung up.

[Mun]

… that she showed me no respect, shown him no respect, and worse yet, she's shown no SELF respect ...

 

She challenges me and says "then why didn't you marry me?". I am shocked and say "are you serious… it can't be that, you KNEW I couldn't afford it…. And I didn't want to buy you a ring until I could support you the way I was supposed to… your family has money, so I didn't want you to think I was just doing it out of security. And I TOLD YOU ALL of this, we BOTH talked about it and you knew I was building up the money for a ring right before the breakup… we went shopping for it and that is why you broke it off! Are you telling me now that it was a factor?".

 

Boy I didn't see this coming.. I know that I am no one here but the first quote-that's what I thought too.

 

While I think that you two were broken up at the time and could each date anyone you like--I tend to think that if she could not end things with the other guy/didn't know how to do it . He kept coming even when she says she told him not to then she lacks strength of character...and since you know her better you might know whether or not she can ask a man to leave her alone and be effective--if she can--then she is lying once again...she never told him to go away and meant it.

 

I don't understand about the getting married thing. She says she didn't know if she could trust you. Do you think that even though you had both talked about why you couldn't get married yet, she might have thought you were just leading her on or dragging it out? That deep down she thought you were not really serious about marrying her? You were the one that decided not to get married yet---did she get a say in this? or do you think she is using this as an excuse now?

 

You seemed to have handled everything very well. I wonder if --should you decide to get back together--you would be able to repair all the damage that has been done.

 

She sounds like a smart lady....but your opponent most of the time instead of your ally