rich 1517 - sure im not making a mistake here?

[rich_1517]

Hey guyz

well its been four days. and no call from her. help me with my logic here or lack of it.

 

during the "two months" she called a lot on weeks she didnt have her son. she doesnt have her son this week and no calls. during it was easy she was covered by "im still deciding" no risk. if she calls now its sending i positive signal to me. doesnt seem like she is comfortable with that yet. or after ten weeks since leaving she is considering her options.

 

my gut tells me to not call, ever. to let her go her way and to not pursue. why? becuase i am available and she worked me pretty good, repsect is difficult to find in a situation like this. i am stronger but she feels too comfortable with me, can be fun and relaxed without any risk but with absolutely no physical contact. thats pretty removed.

 

by waiting her out i let memories and me work on her or not, she makes a call balance begins to shift and she has dropped a major internal hurdle.

 

i have certainly demonstrated unconditional love at this point. too much. she has had no work to do, which meets love tactics guidelines, but... too much and im a door mat. she could take me for gratned very easily. her emotional investment is minor.

 

there is an accappella group playing near her thursday and if a date was going to happen that would be a very good thing to do. But... it seems like if i call i am being pushy, without any sign of a come ahead i continue to weaken my position.

 

so this could be a test of committment and my love for. (long shot). she had to put up with me declining to do things for a long time, including moving in.

 

so what would be advice at this point? there has been one date, and it was fun. i cooked, we went to salsa lessons, then ice cream then she called while driving home. all good signs. is she waiting for me to call? can she truly not see how much control she has had and not give me a break. or is she sparing mine and her feelings by "not leading me on?" hence no calls?

 

so the only path i could see would be calling and taking the risk of being blown off. or send an email "im going to see the accappella group thursday, want to come?" its a different approach. the emial lets her respond without pressure. and if i get the im busy that night i can regroup. fact is she has no life is she is busy these days shes seeing someone, no kidding she really has no life.

 

what would tactics say here?

[dikaia880]

I say, call her for the acapella date...one last try, I suppose.

Thats just me though...

Oh and the smoking, well I broke down last night at the pub...ripped the patch off and smoked away...It's amazing how I could feel that good all day and when she emailed to say she wouldn't be able to call back I got thrown down and just had to burn a couple smokes...urgh...well back to square one!

Best of luck with your situation...I hope it turns out the way you want!

[rich_1517]

thanks Dikaia

 

i have to think it through i want to hear from beec and danimal. but i am inclined to agree. i have to accept that she is made of stone at times, she will do what is best for her, and sometimes those things are sympathy to make sure she hasnt hurt someones feelings. so the offer to date could be just smoke and mirrors.

 

since she left she has used a very slow path of distance and change, the "nice" let down. its sad really it makes feelings of no importance.

 

i have to accept her as i see her. not a lot of love drive for me. thats just how it is, she is a runner. she blames the past on others as motivation to the next step. i can really pick em. i could be wrong, i hope i am.

 

the question now is do i ask if she is dating others? i think thats my line. thats the point i have to say "i guess its just friends, and thats ok" my strength must start coming out soon.

 

dont give up on yourself, quit again. one of the reasons i havent tried is that i want to be sure i can do it without her affecting it. it would be a huge signal to her that i am trying, and i do smoke less around her, but i need time and help with this one. if she really cares she will know that.

[dikaia880]

Yeah, I hear you about wanting all the opinions you can...I don't know, I've probably just seen to many movies, where the big final romantic gesture wins them back for good and all is happy...

Just proves the media is full of false ideals I suppose....

Well whatever you decide, I hope it works out for ya!

[GeeCee]

Hi Rich

 

I know that you are waiting for Beec and Danimal, but in the absense of them, I thought I would chip in.

 

I would not call at this stage. I think that that is what she would expect from you. You have shown her unconditional love, you are right, and it has made no change to her behaviour. Withdraw a bit now. She enjoyed the date with you - even called to talk to you on her way home. All good signs. But you cannot continue to make all the running - for your own sanity.

 

I would wait a couple of days and see how you feel.

 

Not, I guess what you wanted to hear.

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

Dikaia and GeeCee

 

dont misunderstand me i value your advice, keep it coming. i look to beec and danimal for tactics, becuase they have been studying and practing them.

 

for heart, soul, safety and reality i need all the help i can get. i will get through this but i want different perspectives when i dont see clearly. so dont thin i value anyones input less or more. hell just the fact that you would take time to post to my situation means tons to me. less lonely ya know?

 

rich

[dikaia880]

Hey Rich, I feel the same way...get as much input and advice as you can than mix and match them to fit how you see it best...Simple human nature I suppose...

[Clevertrevor]

Hey Rich,

Stand strong! What's 4 days in the big picture? Be the man you have rebuilt yourself to be.

Leave her to think about the good experiences you have given her recently. You have laid the foundations, now let her do some building. Bit of a dodgy analogy I know, but remember there are 2 people in this game, don't be afraid to let her have a play; I am sure you'll get the result you both want. Consider it a tactical withdrawal.

Now get out there and GET BUSY! Then give her a call next week to ask what's up, check that she's OK; that's what I think from up here in my Ivory Tower.

 

(Re-posted because I messed up the edit function)

[Beec]

Rich,

 

Specifics are really tough to get into. However, doing less right now that optimal is much better than doing more than optimal. If calling was hte right thing, I'd do it now. But if it at all would be expected or too much, don't do it.

 

It's tough when you do all the work, as you are now, and they do nothing (Don't I know it with my GF, need a big dose of my own advice). And, it seems like she is unsure and trying to play you, as well as you are trying to play her. However, she has seen your past game and may be thinking it will come. Not calling will be more of a surprise than calling.

 

If she does not call, hey it is only Tuesday, then plan on a call to her next week. Don't worry about other guys or anything else right now. You cannot go and move into her place and keep them all away. Your best manuvers will be to make her really heppy when she is with you, then move away. Unless another guy can do the same, you will be undermining his game. She spent a couple days straight with you last week, so I think anohter guy is unlikely.

 

Think about a call next week Tues or Wed, if there is no other word. And think about a date planned for shortly thereafter.

[GeeCee]

I think I said that Rich - just not in soooo many words!!! Whoa, and they say that women talk!!!! (Only joking Beec, honey!!!).

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

hmm, this is a tough game, but the longer i go without calling two things happen

 

1. i get stronger, for the obvious reason (im not giving it away) and i get more clarity.

 

2. i lose some hope until she calls. becuase damn, if you say you want to date someone pick up the phone.

 

however you are right, i have shown i will do the footwork so now she is stuck. not a bad place to leave her. waiting until next week seems a bit long. but i hear you.

 

the bummer is this is the week when she doesnt have her son. so i may get a call to come "play" with them. read "friends". but this is more like the old me, no rush, no push, let things fall into place or not. start being involved more in my own life.

 

how do i answer "why didnt you call?" my instincts in a flirty way is to say "well, i had stuff going on (no explanation) i didnt want to push, we spent a lot of time together last week, a break seemed like a good idea, was i wrong?" and wait for her response.

 

calling her will backfire on me, she will do aloof, gotta go. im realising she must be reading the same book. she responds gushingly to flowers, then negative to phone calls. meaning make me feel good, but dont pressure me. well thats just about over.

[GeeCee]

how do i answer "why didnt you call?" my instincts in a flirty way is to say "well, i had stuff going on (no explanation) i didnt want to push, we spent a lot of time together last week, a break seemed like a good idea, was i wrong?" and wait for her response.

 

Answered your own question, Rich!!!! Vague, aloof, independent. The Expert would be PROUD!!

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

ok so she called, do i ask to date or leave her hanging?

[Beec]

OK, you want to see her but not be too eager.

 

The good idea is to suggest that you want to go do soemthing or that she might want to go see soemthing and she how see reacts. If it is positive, the answer will probably be yes. So ask.

[GeeCee]

No no no no no. Rich, you know that I love Beec and his advise. But I disagree here. You have reached out to her and reached out to her. You have done all the running and shown her that you are a different person. She has enjoyed the ride, but she has had to make no effort whatsoever. This is dangerous and could become habit-forming.

 

My instinct now, is to retreat slightly. Let her assess what she is enjoying about dating you, and let her come and seek more of the same.

 

Ok, if she has made no contact by Friday, give her a call. But I do not think that you should be suggesting the next day. Damn, this dating, relatinship thing is a two-way street. Women are no longer waiting for men to make all the moves. Step down a gear, Rich and let her make some moves now.

 

G xx

[Beec]

GeeCee, you missed soemthing here.

 

 

She called rich!!!!!

[rich_1517]

well its done now. sorry GeeCee, i agree she does have to make effort. it seems like her reward for calling is a fun date.

 

i wish i could get up to speed faster. i said i am doing something thursday would she like to join me? she said yes, what is it? so i told her. she offered to make dinner.

 

but yes she has to start taking initiative becuase it makes her own her own feelings about this. step over some boundaries.

 

its funny she asked about my weekend, i said nothing special, jazz and frends, and you>? she made a point of telling me the boring details, which is good.

 

i need some plans here guys, i really do. i cant post more now, but i need to be able to strategise "before" i see her so i can plan. and i need your help.

 

she made the effort to call, its a good sign. she also told me about her sons play saturday with a hint hint. meaning come.

 

i need a win win on this.

[Beec]

So what do you need to know. You are going to her place for dinner and then out to see singing. After the singing, take her home and drop her off. Don't go out. Wait for her to make a move in your direction. She knows you wanted to kiss her, don't try it until she moves toward it. Patience, patience.

 

OK, I agree she has to make some effort, but when is the issue. You will need to change her thinking in order for it to happen. How do you change her thinking?

 

Well, you get her feeling great, high on rich, and then you withdraw. I have actually taken a woman on a couple dates and then left her telling her it was her turn. She asked what do you mean? I told her I have taken you out a few times, and if you are interested in seeing me, let me know. It's your turn.

 

Are you to where you can do that yet? Not sure.

[rich_1517]

oops sprry for shouting. ok Beec we are thinking exactly the same. she is showing enough response to pull it. i think she would also respect me more and feel more value if she has to work for it.

 

so she will call or ask me to come to her sons play. have to think about that one.

 

but yes coquette is about right. coy and reserved would be even better.

 

my banter with her is enough for it to come natural.

 

i think i may be finally relaxing some. so thrusday should be interesting.

[Beec]

Your getting the idea, but when you withdraw, be careful how hard and how fast.

 

People all differ. If you withdraw with no comments, and she chases (hey she did a little with her call today) you gauge how far and fast you can withdraw by her actions. If you put up a stink and then withdraw with it, you better be sure she is going to follow before you go or that you are near the end of your rope.

[rich_1517]

with her its the deafening silence. i am pretty damn frosty about her playing me, so i will take the next two days to do a little house cleaning on myself, and then get out of the house, so to speak. work is really helping my esteem, now i need flirting practice again, always keep those muscles in shape.

 

she will be going into the week with her son, so she will call for first the play and then perhaps dinner with both of them. timming would say do both then disappear prior to her week without him. or do the play but nothing else, as much lead time into her week alone works in my favor. last week we hung out wednesday, thurs, fri. so it make sense she was good till today.

 

better that she has 3 or 4 days going into her week alone, a weekend without me and then me aloof. still need to sort this one out.

[Beec]

 

she will be going into the week with her son, so she will call for first the play and then perhaps dinner with both of them. timming would say do both then disappear prior to her week without him. or do the play but nothing else, as much lead time into her week alone works in my favor. last week we hung out wednesday, thurs, fri. so it make sense she was good till today.

 

better that she has 3 or 4 days going into her week alone, a weekend without me and then me aloof. still need to sort this one out.

 

 

Oh, how I see the wheels turning. Rich is thinking about his GAME!

[danimal77]

Good for you Rich!!

 

You should see how daring I've become Rich, with my game. I'm taking big risks here and I know it's going to pay off, for both you and I.

 

Believe in your abilities and play it smart, but take risks as well. Just go with your gut instinct and don't doubt yourself. She will sense the confidence and she will come full force in your direction.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

Peace,

[Clevertrevor]

Full Force!

Does anyone remember them?

[rich_1517]

i realise now that you are all right.

 

GeeCee -> yep its past time she started to show intiative

 

Beec, CleverTrevor, Danimal, -> set the hook deeper before pulling on the line

 

its both and it requires a little more discomfort for me. there is no guarantee that it will pay off but thats the risk isnt it? we show up to win and take the chance.

 

if i pull the hook too soon it wouldnt work, i am building a platform of comfort under her, fun, support, attention, sexual interest, friendship. i understand better now. she hasnt had to work for it yet its just there.

 

the phone call yesterday could have been left at just that. a phone call. thats part of normalising things. Its the lesson i have to learn for next week to be ready to be "flat".

 

the confusion or disruption comes from removing the "assumption" that i am there, and be neutral for first phone calls. no plans. no dates.

 

then make sure i have plans next week from wednesday out. i could set the tone for it by letting her know that i will be working on something soon, so i can use the excuse those nights.

 

the line would be suggesting nothing and now letting her do it. i also think she wants to work for it, just a hunch on that but yesterday was just a "hi" call. she wants seduction but she also wants security, security comes from normal relations. we arent there yet. that is the eventual condition.

 

removing any stress or discomfort is the goal here, she has to lower her defenses, but i need to relax even more and just be me.