boys in the closet - relatioships with girls

[Lucy__lou]

So I'm a woman who recently started to fall for a man, who I've since found out is Gay. But he's in the closet. He knows I know, and we've talked about it. He knows I am interested. Or was interested.

 

I desperately wanted and still want a real connection with him. Even now, even only as a friend, I really want us to be able to talk. I want us to have each other as allies in the often alienating straight world. But he's just blaze towards me. Doesn't seem to want more than being a casual acquaintance.

 

I'd like the opinions of men here who are either in the closet, or who have been, on how they feel about women who are interested in them?

 

I have a few theories as to why he seems to hardly care that I exist...

 

1. He simply doesn't like me very much

2. Because he's still in the closet, he is unable to express much warmth or affection or have deep connections with women, because it feels like what a hetero man would do when you get emotionally close to another woman when you're not counteracting it by being very obviously gay in your general self expression.

3. He thinks close emotional connections are too intimate for just friends

4. He thinks he needs to establish boundaries so he doesn't lead me on...

 

All I know is that I feel a strong connection to this guy and really want him in my life and want to get to a deeper level with him, but he doesn't feel the same. I don't understand what it's like to be gay or straight and not feel any desire to connect with either men or women. I desire connection with everyone I like.

 

Advice please from any Gay men here would be awesome.

[Aleadragonhawk]

I think that you're setting yourself up for a lot of pain by seeking some kind of a relationship with this man. It comes down to you being interested in him and him being unavailable. If you were friends, I think it'd just be a stopgap that would draw you deeper into wanting him.

[Lucy__lou]

Are you a Gay man? are you in the closet? have you been? what's your take from that perspective. That's what I'm here for.

 

So you think the only reason why I crave an emotional connection with him is because I'm sexually interested in him?

 

What about soul connections?

 

And another question. A question for Gay men. I find that as a woman, I care A LOT what gay men think of me. I don't know why it is that I just feel like they're superior or something and I just want to be accepted by them. Is this common? Do most Gay men consider themselves to be superior or cooler than most other people? and do girls often desperately want to be their friends? is it common for there to be this unreciprocated appreciation? Insight again, from anyone would be great.

[lapseinjudgement]

personally lucy... i know i dont fit into the group that your really asking advice from but i think if he doesnt really want a stronger relationship with you you probably shouldnt push it. if it happens it happens but it could just create problems later

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I think analyzing this to death and seeking answers only from gay men as if that will give you some kind of hope or definitive answer is not going to help you in the long run. It doesn't matter if this guy is gay or straight..what matters is that he is not interested in pursuing anything with you...and coming up with all kinds of palatable reasons is not going to change the fact that this is a no go.

[Aleadragonhawk]

Are you a Gay man? are you in the closet? have you been? what's your take from that perspective. That's what I'm here for.

 

 

I'm a woman who has "fallen" for a gay man in the past and gone through some hard times because of it, but apparently that doesn't qualify me to comment on what I see as a destructive situation, so I'll be leaving this thread now.

[Lucy__lou]

I didn't mean to ask that in a demanding tone. I just wanted to know because it doesn't say in your profile. But yes, as I stated, I am specifically asking for the perspectives of Gay men. Discriminatory I know, but hey, it's my thread, and I can already predict what other people might have to say on the issue.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Lucy, you have a repeated history of continually falling for people who are unavailable to you in one way or another, whether that is gay guys, or straight women who don't want to date a bi- woman, or people you work with.

 

I think this man's gayness isn't the issue, it is your repeated desire to pursue people who are unavailable in some way, and you being determined to get them no matter how inappopriate or uninterested they are, and the more uninterested/inappropriate, the more you want them.

 

Did you have a difficult family life where one or both parents were unavailable to you either emotionally or physically, or ignored you, or abused you?

 

I really think the best answer for you is to take this to a therapist and discuss why you always seek out the unavailable/uninterested. It has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with you.

[Lucy__lou]

Thanks Bestrong. I appreciate your bluntness and how you can recall my disasterous past posts. (I'm a big fan of your advice).

 

I don't know what's with me. I've started seeing a counsellor, and calling up helpline sometimes. Getting help wherever I can get it.

 

My parents didn't abandon me in any way. But neither ever set an example of what a healthy loving relationship looked like because they were never loving towards each other, nor did either find new partners after they split. I think my Dad could have been Gay if he allowed that part of him to develop, but as it is he just stayed single. But he's really kind of effeminate now I think of it.

 

I also have problems from making friends, so I don't get opportunities to meet people outside of the workplace. I desperately want to make real connections, but I just don't do well at the social stuff. Maybe people smell my desperation, or they're afraid I'll cling to them if they offer me any warmth.

 

I need love. I know how to love. But no one loves me back, ever.

[Lucy__lou]

I've never had any good female friends - their monthly change in attitude and mood kinda freaks me out (possibly because it resonates with my own rapidly swinging mood)...

 

LOL classic

 

let's face it, we're different species. But what do you think about my comment that a lot of people, especially girls (of all shades) thinking that Gay men are just so cool. Do you feel it that you're percieved in this way? or is it just me who loves you guys and wants to be accepted by you? How do you feel about being seen hanging out with girls? Do you find them embarrassing to be seen with, especially in front of cool guys?

 

you're right. I totally gotta meet more lesbian and bi girls. If only I knew how to find them.

 

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.

[chiefoptimizer]

LOL classic

 

let's face it, we're different species. But what do you think about my comment that a lot of people, especially girls (of all shades) thinking that Gay men are just so cool. Do you feel it that you're percieved in this way? or is it just me who loves you guys and wants to be accepted by you? How do you feel about being seen hanging out with girls? Do you find them embarrassing to be seen with, especially in front of cool guys?

 

you're right. I totally gotta meet more lesbian and bi girls. If only I knew how to find them.

 

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.

 

any LGBT organisations where you live? my first contact with the community was through the university lgbt, i went to one of the events to Alton Towers, and I thought was brilliant, besides meeting people...depends what kind of entertainment you like, eg: bars, clubs, etc...i'm going to the lgbt freshers party tomorrow, so hopefully will meet some new people...

 

i don't know about the cool thing, i'm totally the geeky kind, and usually have just a couple of friends (but I always form very strong bonds with my friends, and after years of not seeing one, they would go to great lengths to meet me again when the opportunity arises), so I can't really answer...i don't mind being seen with girls at all, i do have a few friends who are girls, its just I don't seem have this same deep bond with them...

 

being fixated on gay men isn't very useful for you though...

[KAT MOMMY]

Honey this man is not Gay he is bisexual. You are setting yourself up for a suicide mission. AIDS**** Stop while you are ahead and if he is honest enough to tell you his personal preference then be smart pump your breaks and allow him to "upgrade" and groom you for the perfect straight man.

[Lucy__lou]

I'm going to ignore that last comment.

[gardengnome]

4. He thinks he needs to establish boundaries so he doesn't lead me on...

 

 

I would say that's it. If you want a friendship with him, tell him indirect stories of gay guys and how it's not that bad at all to be gay.

 

Also, if he's in the closet, then he probably doesn't want to talk about it much.. especially in person. Try talking to him online. I'm a sucker for opening up to people through chat. It feels like I'm writing a journal or something.

[Lucy__lou]

Thanks Gardengnome

 

He knows I'm more than cool with gay men. He know I like girls.

 

I really would like to talk to him online, but I feel like it would be intrusive to ask for his email. Just because I want to talk to him doesn't mean he wants to talk to me.

[chiefoptimizer]

Thanks Gardengnome

 

He knows I'm more than cool with gay men. He know I like girls.

 

I really would like to talk to him online, but I feel like it would be intrusive to ask for his email. Just because I want to talk to him doesn't mean he wants to talk to me.

 

"hey, here's my email, add me up on msn if you want to chat some time, or email me..."

[Lucy__lou]

"hey, here's my email, add me up on msn if you want to chat some time, or email me..."

 

Thanks chief optimizer. Although I've kind of done that, and no luck.

 

I really want to talk to him more. I want us to know and understand each other better, but I don't want to initiate it because I'm scared of being stalkerish, so I'm just leaving it to him to initiate, but as it is, he's keeping it it light. I just wish he was more curious to know me. I feel like we could have such great chats if he would allow it.

 

So chief, in your opinion, do you think it would be obvious to this boy that I'm holding back in order to not be stalkerish, but that I really do want to talk to him? I know that when people have been interested in me, who I wasn't interested in, but only as friends, I've been encouraging of more contact, I've suggested catching up one on one with people I've rejected but wanted to be friends with. The fact that he isn't pushing for more one on one chats makes me think that either he doesn't like me even as a friend, or that he's not into diving straight into the emotional one on one stuff, and prefers that stuff is preceeded by the light stuff. Is it only girls that want to go straight into the deep and meaningfuls?

[pianoguy]

If I may jump in here...

 

I think, Lucy, that you still have feelings for this guy. People don't normally obsess and analyze potential friendships- friendships just kind of happen without us even really thinking much about them. People obsess and analyze when they have a crush on somebody and when they want a romantic relationship with somebody.

 

If I'm getting this over the internet, I'm sure this guy is getting a sense of that in real life, which is probably why he's keeping his distance. I think by doing that he's doing the both of you a favor, and you may want to do likewise. Spending time with him and developing a friendship with him is only going to intensify any romantic inclinations you have towards him, which can only end in sadness and unhappiness.

[Lucy__lou]

Thanks for your input Pianoguy. I was hoping you'd give your perspective on this one.

 

I think you're right. My feelings are probably too intense to not end in me just wanting him again. I just get so sad though that I'm going to miss out on knowing somoeone so wonderful, just because I like him with an intensity which is deemed "too much."

 

Like, I feel like what makes life worthwhile is the people you meet, the connections you make. Some will be with people you have sexual attraction with and others will be platonic. But all deep bonds you make with other people throughout your life are what makes life worth living, right?

 

I guess I just don't get how the universe can make me feel a connection to someone and them feel nothing for me. It seems illogical.

[pianoguy]

I think you're right. My feelings are probably too intense to not end in me just wanting him again. I just get so sad though that I'm going to miss out on knowing somoeone so wonderful, just because I like him with an intensity which is deemed "too much."

 

Like, I feel like what makes life worthwhile is the people you meet, the connections you make. Some will be with people you have sexual attraction with and others will be platonic. But all deep bonds you make with other people throughout your life are what makes life worth living, right?

Well... yes, I basically agree, but I don't think all connections with people are necessarily good. I think an unfulfilled romantic longing is one of the worst kinds of relationships you can have with anybody, it just completely destroys you as a person. There's a really famous book by Goethe that I just finished reading- "The Sorrows of Young Werther" which is about a young man who was completely destroyed by love and ended up killing himself. Of course that's unrealistic, but it makes the valid point that love can be harmful if it isn't administered in the correct context.

 

And I guess I don't think, personally, that it is really possible to go to being "just friends" with somebody after you have romantic feelings for them... at least in many cases. I think after the spark is lit the pilot is always on, as it were, just waiting for the gas to be turned up a bit to burst into full flame. I don't know how many people would agree with me on this... but for me personally it's true.

 

Today for example- I was cleaning out my room when I came upon my old yearbook and starting flipping through it and came upon my first love (straight, conservative, basically an idiot, but cute as a button). I haven't seen him in three years, I've dated and had semi-fulfilling relationships in the meanwhile, but when I saw his picture got a jolt- mixed happiness and sadness and excitement and heavy depression all in one. In short, I still love him. It doesn't go away, I don't think, once you've connected like that. It's a dangerous thing.

 

There's a book you might like Lucy that I'm reading now, I'm not sure what your taste in books is but it's a good one- it's called "Love Undetectable" by the brilliant gay columnist Andrew Sullivan. It's a collection of essays- the last one is a beautiful celebration of friendship and a examination of the differences between romantic love and friendship. He comes down strongly in favor of friendship, interestingly enough.

 

I guess I just don't get how the universe can make me feel a connection to someone and them feel nothing for me. It seems illogical.

It is illogical. There's nothing logical about it. That's how it works.

 

I will say, though, that you can try to focus your romantic energy onto more suitable people- to continue my story from above, I did eventually get past my first love to the point where I could function and have been dating and have fallen in love with other people. While I still love him, and always will, I've been able to focus my energy onto more suitable people (mostly). In your case, you need to focus your romantic energy onto straight men who might like you back, or lesbian or bisexual women.

[Lucy__lou]

Awesome post pianoguy. thank you!

 

I like how you talk about love like it's a potent substance which has to be used and directed wisely. And the thing about the pilot light. Good metaphor.

 

I'll keep that book in mind too.

 

It's such a shame that he hides that he's gay. I never become attracted to gay men if I know, no matter how hot they are. My brain simply doesn't allow itself to go there, because I know it's wrong. I interact with Gay men so differently to straight men. But I never got a chance to get on that level with him because he fooled me and allowed me to think he was straight, cause he was scared to be out.

[pianoguy]

It's such a shame that he hides that he's gay. I never become attracted to gay men if I know, no matter how hot they are. My brain simply doesn't allow itself to go there, because I know it's wrong. I interact with Gay men so differently to straight men. But I never got a chance to get on that level with him because he fooled me and allowed me to think he was straight, cause he was scared to be out.

 

Oh, gosh- so you were attracted to him while you thought he was straight and he turned out to be gay? Tough break. The odds of that happening are about 1 in 10. Does he have a boyfriend? If not, give him my number.

[whes]

I was in love with a closet gay man for about 5 years. It was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever been through. He realized his preference and came out after we'd broken up, so it wasn't quite the same situation as yours.

 

I think he's probably just trying to protect you from yourself, because he knows that he cannot give you what you want from him. I know you say that you are interested in the emotional connection rather than the physical, but if you are falling for him, friendship will never be enough.

 

Yes, there can absolutely be a soul connection between two people, whether it be a gay man and a straight woman, or whoever. But if you were falling for him (or still are), it will simply not work. I got to know my ex (yes we dated for a while) purely through friendship, and I could never figure out why he couldn't see how much I cared for him, how much I loved him. Why I was so unloveable. Other men made me feel female, but he didn't make me feel that way. I can't describe it. It's a very subtle, but necessary thing, and when I didn't get it from him, it really broke me. It made me doubt who I was, and that I could be cared for at all.

 

...I really really want you to understand that the kind of connection you are looking for cannot exist between you. I want you to know this before you try and force it to happen, as I did for so long, because it is terribly painful to go through so much heartache for someone who just doesn't see it or understand it. He can't feel the same strong connection that you can. It can develop like any other friendship over time, but it will come at the cost of your own heart.

 

My ex came to love me as well, but there was still something very basic missing. I never knew what it was and why I couldn't be good enough for him until I found out he was gay. And I have to tell you, it was the single, biggest relief of my life. We are very close now, but on a completely platonic level. Perhaps it could be different for you two, but if he thinks that you are still interested in him then he will not be willing to get close to you and possibly hurt you.

 

The quote that I bolded is why I am cautioning you. You might think that you won't expect more from him than you would from a friend, but it really sounds to me as if you would. You want to go to a deeper level with him: this tells me that you want an emotional connection with this man the same as you would have with a boyfriend. It won't happen because he's simply unable to give his heart to you the same way he would be able to another man, and if you do pursue a deeper friendship with him, I think it would only cause you pain, because he will never return your feelings as deeply.

 

Only if you are truly over this aspect of it can you be friends. My ex and I are very very close friends, but it has taken us a long time to get here.

[Lucy__lou]

Thank you whes, it sounds like you know too well what you're talking about. What you went through! man! what a waste of energy. It makes me angry that our society pressures people to take on heterosexual roles before they know what they want. It just hurts everyone in the end. Not just the gay one. You must have felt so angry and ripped off. But at least you found out. It makes me wonder how many people out there there are in straight relationships with undisclosed gay partners, all those unhealthy heterosexual relationships where people are unhappy because one of them is gay, and the other thinks they're just unlovable and there's something wrong with them. It's tragic.

 

I will keep your words in mind. I'd like to think that I can be just friends with him if I just re learn who he is, but I'll keep an eye on myself, make sure that pilot light is not just waiting, like piano guy said.

[whes]

That's a good place to start. Relearning who he is. Because it really does change your entire perspective of someone and how you expect them to react or even feel about you. It doesn't mean it changes your perspective into a negative one, though it can, but if you are a woman who has had interest in a man who comes out, the way you expect him to react or behave around you necessarily has to change.

 

For me, it was easy to change my perspective because that one simple fact that he was gay organized all of this chaos into pure order in that moment when he told me. It just reordered my memories of our entire relationship of 5 years (from before we dated till that moment) and made everything just make sense!

 

I don't know how easy or difficult it will be for you to change your natural expectations of him, but at least you know. And I do have to tell you that my ex is one of my closest friends now, and that I treasure his friendship very deeply.