Is making it to top be all and end all?

[ajaxajax]

Hello all

 

I might like to ask anyone out there if anyone on Enotalone (or anyone they know) had a successful “rags to riches” story. How difficult was it and how was it managed personally?

 

Also, before becoming well off, did anyone believe that your life can only go on if you have “crossed the finish line”? Did that belief change after that?

 

I know that being well off doesn’t necessarily mean people will love, respect or appreciate you more…but I just feel that this world appears to have financial progress as a necessity for moving forward in life…and get on better with even people who don’t appear as financially obsessed. I am estimated to be about 450 days away from finishing my Pharmacy degree (after starting uni in 1999)…but I feel so frustrated as to having to delay myself even by ONE day because of this “obsession”!

 

I would appreciate any comments. Thanks!

[AJ Auteur]

A funny thing usually happens to people who wait to cross the finish line...another line appears...and then another...and on and on...financial obssession is smart though, no such thing as security so you need alot of $ to feel ok...just make sure you enjoy life...even if its the small things or a date once in awhile....

[rocio]

I grew up in a single parent family that received government assistance. At 17 years old, I left home with a couple hundred bucks and a change of clothes. My friends and family completely cut me off (due to religious differences). I didn't know anyone "out there".

 

I bounced around from city to city, lost and searching for a new home. I finally fell in love with a city, but I didn't speak the language. I somehow managed to put myself through school there, with nearly no contact with my family (and, needless to say, no financial assistance).

 

By 24, I had a graduate degree and a comfy government job. I'm married to a man who is doing his phd. We're still not quite over the "finish line", whatever that would be. But I certainly feel that I've taken very little and turned it into a secure, comfortable life.

 

I'm very different from you, though. I'm not concerned about impressing other people or having the biggest house on the block. It's just part of my nature to challenge myself and strive for large goals. Thus, I enjoyed the journey.

[thejigsup]

My goals are my life. I sure hope there is another one every time I have reached the current one. It's what keeps me alive. Love the stuff! Find someone like this and reach the stars together.

[ajaxajax]

Like I have said, I don't agree with needing money and success to become accepted.

 

Under_my_umbrella, I am trying to say that it's not me who feels that I need to financially impress, it's almost everyone in my life who appears to want me to impress. Yes, I do have OTHER goals but it just gets hard to fulfil them when everyday someone keeps on telling me I haven't got long to go (before I earn some $$$) or when you have to do work while everyone else walks away to be fulfilled without money! I even find it hard for me to settle down enough to start dating...partly by my mother saying "you can't pay your bills by having a girlfriend".

 

Also, I keep feeling that the wealthiest neighbourhoods, professions etc get all the positive acclaim in the TV, newspapers etc whereas my own neighbourhood keeps being seen as a "ghetto". That's one reason why whenever I interact with people, they seem hesitant most of the time.

[thejigsup]

I don't live in a fancy neighborhood, but I am happy. I love to work and I love to earn money. This enables me to play, also. I am taking a week off in about two weeks to go to my timeshare in San Diego. I didn't get that marvelous place by being happy with less. I worked for it! The money itself isn't important, it just pays your bills. The self satisfaction and self esteem that come with a career you enjoy is priceless! I love what I do and guess what? They even pay me for it!

[Morphous01]

Hi Ajax,

 

 

Well, I do have a friend who I use to work with who is in his late 40's. He is a real estate agent. When he started out, he had to use a bicycle to set up the listings when he had to meet people. He was cash poor for a very long time.

 

Today, if he liquidated his assets he is worth about 3 million (maybe more) and growing. He owns various rental property which I believe they call residual income; this pays his bills so he no longer needs to work. However, he still does work because he generally enjoys it. The last figure he told me he made on selling houses alone was 80k. So you figure 80k plus the residual income; thats not bad.

 

As far as how he did it: All he did was follow the basics! All the crap you find in the book stores about getting rich quick and all the crap you see on T.V is a scam to make a quick buck of you. Not to say that the tricks they tell you don't work but its usually high end tricks that a novice shouldn't play around with.

 

My friend did the following: Saved money, lived like a BUM even though he made money, didn't go to Vegas, fancy trips, and all that crap to appease his ego, gave money away to help people, bought property at the right time and held on to it (did not flip it and all that stuff), found a business partner and they worked and put there money together (2 is better than 1), did not have any kids or a huge family ( he said it would have distracted him) , rented rooms out of friends homes to save $$$ and most important of all is he's very well read in many subjects. He did this for YEARS until it payed off.

 

 

But here is my personal take on this discussion. From birth we are all taught that we need to go to school in order to find a job and make money (lots of it). However, this is all social programing. We are all living in a world that was created by other people that TAKE the fruits of our labor! Our fruits are supposed to go to our own family's and community's. Its the real circle of life; not some empty Government money pit or some non-caring company. The people or rather large family dynasty's that set up this system for there own benefit (not our own) are living in incomprehensible comfort while you go to work everyday to keep the system running for your little 100k a year that your happy to get. Your money isn't even real. You cant take it to the bank and trade it for gold because in the history class that you paid for ( or the tax payers) did not tell you about it.

 

Have you noticed how everyone is much the same; millions of people being torn from family's to go off to college or the military to try and make a career for themselves? Millions of people chasing the image that has been planted in each and every one of our heads as to what we should look like, how much money we should make, and what we should do with our time?

 

Nobody questions this, people just do as told..... The real questions are; where did we come from, why are we here; where will we go when we die.

 

AJ Auteur, is dead on; everytime you complete a goal a new one appears, this gives us a clue about the "system" we think is real. Why would a system spit out a new challenge after you completed the last one instead of letting you exit the game?

[rocio]

Are you going to school?

[Morphous01]

No, I stopped going. I stopped going because I am now aware that I will not get the truth at any level of education. I study full time on my own with no regards to a financial pay off.

 

Now let me say, school 120 year ago was excellent!! However, since then, if you do your research, powerful people have taken control of the educational system by donations, philanthropy's or building the schools themselves.

 

Now why would someone be so generous?? Answer: To get control of your mind, and to instill in you what "they" think is important for you and the rest of the word. As if you can't think for yourself. Watch it, if you don't think for yourself someone will always step in and think FOR YOU...

 

The sad truth is that you are no longer being educated at college. College is now job training.. Think I'm playing? Find a book from 1870 and compare it to a book in 2008. Most Americans are are going backwards; and this is the goal.

 

Work, work, work so you WON'T think, think, think!!

[ajaxajax]

Morphous01, wow...I do find last posts funny, fascinating and intriguing. And I do believe they are accurate (hope noone doing surveillance of the Net acts in the wrong way lol!)

 

I actually agree that many people out there have set up the "general way of things" in society, in part, for their own advantage. I have always been taught to stay above within that system, instead of actually being 100% of my real self. My family learned about this "engineering" the hard way, by, for instance:

- having business partners constantly pretending to be broke so that they can make more money from you;

- knowing people who rented properties partly because they are poorer - and end up filling them with literally tonnes of rubbish and unpaid rents before disappearing

- having politicians who cut back on hospital spending to save money, when it's actually cheaper to use more of the money wisely for the hospitals, instead of THEMSELVES

- watching celebrities being called heroes for saying that they have depression, whereas us having exactly the same thing in exactly the same circumstances would have people calling us "slack"

 

The way things have been "run" for money etc as Morphous described it caused me to not have exercise as a kid, not interact with many people and form genuine friendships and to not have a decent romantic life. No offence to women...but a large % appear to reject you if your financial backing is not "decent" and even leave you if that level is not kept...no matter how hard you work. I sometimes wonder if I can't go out with a full time employed woman while I'm still a student! I don't think this applies to every woman but, come on, doesn't this sort of behaviour put a stain on the sisterhood?

 

Also, I have wanted to become a medical student for years - mainly because of the financial, social and professional prestige that comes with being a doctor. My father even said, "you have to get in or noone will even want to know ya!" I now feel that even the medical profession has flaws with its lifestyle (like everyone else) and that job satisfaction is probably of greater importance than mere prestige.

 

So, I suppose that it's a matter of me being careful with money, understanding how the "system" works, trying to be myself, being (not acting) your best with people and knowing what makes you happiest.

 

Any further comments would be gratefully welcomed. Thanks again

[rocio]

While I found your comments very interesting, Morphous01, I was actually curious to know whether ajaxajax was going to school.

 

ajaxajax: I'm trying to understand where you're coming from so I can give relevant comments. What your parents are saying to you seems a bit extreme, but I think they have the right idea. They know that education is the best way to get somewhere in this world. With an education, you (hopefully) don't have to work two jobs or wonder how you're going to pay for your child's hospital bills.

 

Morphous01: I completely agree with you. Our education system is a farce.

[ajaxajax]

I have always agreed that having an education is the best way for me to get ahead in this world. But, I feel I did not need all these extreme sayings or severe social sacrifice for my goal to be accomplished. I already have enough "inspiration" from me being good at the most relevant subjects at school or knowing my father started full time work aged 12 or me living in a rather rough and riff raff neighbourhood.

 

Although what my parents were saying was understandable, they did not need to see me as undisciplined or uncooperative. In fact, all the unnecessary extra pressure from the partents, neighbourhood, reality etc made me not enjoy myself socially. Perhaps, I shouldn't need to have a nervous breakdown just for me to stay ahead...if other people can do it without one, why shouldn't I? Know what I mean?

[rocio]

Yes, I understand what you mean. It shouldn't have to be that stressful. Ask yourself what you're trying to achieve. You can never get to the top - there will always be someone above you. So you need to decide for yourself what you really want, and then learn to be satisfied with it.

 

So, what do you want?

[ajaxajax]

Well (thank you for asking that question), I would want to have a job that I can enjoy doing and that suits my talents and skills best...I will get that by being a pharmacist but that depends on whether the "education system" lets me. I don't necessarily want to become another Bill Gates. But I also do want to have enough for me to live comfortably for myself without anyone's help, to have control over how my life should be run and to let me have flexibility in how I can make more money if needed.

 

Apart from money and jobs, I also want to be seen more respectfully by people in general (eg future business partners and colleagues, potential romantic partners, neighbours etc)...I think this is tied somewhat to having a job and money. It shouldn't but that's part of the so called "social system"

[rocio]

Apart from money and jobs, I also want to be seen more respectfully by people in general (eg future business partners and colleagues, potential romantic partners, neighbours etc)...I think this is tied somewhat to having a job and money.

 

Yeah, and degrees:

 

 

[glegend]

I went from "Riches to Rags"

 

My parents used to be finanially better off years ago, better then they are now. Now they are in debt. Its very strange for me. My dad used to work two jobs, office job and doing renovations on the side and my mom stayed home. We never bought the best shoes or clothes (Wal-Mart stuff), we did have good clothes that we got as gifts. Years passed and my dad quit his office job, thinking it was for the best, and started buying better shoes and clothes (not all the time but every now and then), things got worse and my mom had to go back to work. In the end things were better back then, then now. We do have 3 vehicles and paid off house, so I guess you can say we are better off then other families but bottom line is my parents are in debt.

[ajaxajax]

And Canada, like Australia (where I am), is probably in the middle of a recession right now. So, when times do get tough and then tougher, buying luxuries might not be the best investment - even if it does make people "feel" better.

 

Under_my_umbrella, thanks for the link. After looking through some notes, I have to say I actually graduated with a Bachelor's degree (Health Sciences) in 2001 and then an Honours degree the year after. But, I just felt that I needed to go onto something higher still to have me seen as financially (and thus socially) worth the respect and admiration. I'd be lucky to get a US$1000 a week job with my two degrees without even a PhD...which would take another 3 years! I do consider myself quite intelligent (and humbly so)...the choice of high school was not the best for me. Although it's the best high school my parents could afford, that only turned out a handful of lawyers, physiotherapists etc and only one dentist in its entire 75 year history!

[Anthropic]

Morphous01: I completely agree with you. Our education system is a farce.

 

I'm going to completely disagree with you all on the education system. Can it be better? It can always be better, but it's only as good as the people in it. You get out what you put in. I think it's a great place for learning and I'm not just talking about academics.

 

Apart from money and jobs, I also want to be seen more respectfully by people in general (eg future business partners and colleagues, potential romantic partners, neighbours etc)...I think this is tied somewhat to having a job and money. It shouldn't but that's part of the so called "social system"

 

You gain respect by the things you do, not by the titles you hold. Do things worthy of respect and people will respect you. I'll take your example of a medical professional, they don't get respect and prestige because of their salaries, they get it because they save peoples lives. Is the kind of respect you get for the size of your paycheck what you really want or should even care about?

 

So, I suppose that it's a matter of me being careful with money, understanding how the "system" works, trying to be myself, being (not acting) your best with people and knowing what makes you happiest.

 

This is pretty much the attitude that I have. I basically follow what makes me happy, it does tend to make life a little "unstructured" but it's served me well so far. I admit I do try and exploit the system whenever I can though, it's a game, a fun game.

[ajaxajax]

The education system, theoretically, is meant to be an objective, systematic and professional way of having people gaining knowledge and skills to allow for existence within their chosen fields of employment. But, as you've said, it's only as good as the people in it. I do find quite a few academics who are not so objective and are even childish - such as one uni Head of Department saying to me, "why should I believe you?" Some others brought me down by not commenting too much on why I stuffed up with some assignments. I even came accross a couple of lecturers who make teaching really hard and still compulsively SMILE all the time! Down right annoying!

 

I do understand, also, that many doctors do get respect from the work they achieve and the dedication that they have. But, I just wish EVERY doctor was like that. In my state of Australia, doctors recently went on strikes and threatened to go interstate overnight unless they get a minimum US$2,300 per week pay rise! Also, when my uncle was suffocating on a hospital bed, the two doctors in charge did not bother to do CPR in a position that would have let him breathe much more easily. He died as a result...aged 45.

 

And I have been doing many things worthy of respect by a lot of people for myself, for my family and even for many other people...but I still felt quite unappreciated and made me think: "Hang on, was there anything about me that was such a turn off, like not having a respectable job?"

[CaptainPlanet]

Most Australians are at least middle class. We all live very well. On that grounds I cannot really think of anyone who went from 'rags' to 'riches' at all.

 

We should just be happy for what we have money wise. Wanting a better job or an education is different.

[ajaxajax]

But, within my neighbourhood, most of it consists of old people (ie pensioners), middle aged industrial workers and family after family on welfare. I wouldn't consider that as middle class - Australians call it "working class" but nearly everywhere else would call it lower class. Trying to better yourself in that sort of environment, especially when you are not like them, is as hard as hell!

[Morphous01]

" I'll take your example of a medical professional, they don't get respect and prestige because of their salaries, they get it because they save peoples lives."

 

 

Anthropic, this is not a personal attack, but, I haft to respectfully disagree with this statement. In modern society, its pretty much common knowledge that women/men associate doctors/stock brokers with a high income and high social status. Women love men with high status! The onlooking men see that and just create a carbon copy of it for themselves.

 

I met a man a short time ago who owned a Ferrari, he told me women would leave panties with numbers on his windshield and that many women would flash him on the freeway. Its just a fact, this "man made" society has engineered people to worship and pursue power, and prestige at all cost...

 

 

As far as saving lives, people don't care anymore that doctors can save lives. Saving lives has become so common that people don't even appreciate it anymore. In fact, people do everything to destroy there OWN health via drinking, drugs, excess partying, not exercising and eating crap food for there entire lives that is completely void of basic nutrients.

 

The alcohol angers me the most, many people die each year in genuine need of a liver transplant, meanwhile, around the globe, you have young college kids hell bent on destroying the only one they have.

[Anthropic]

Morphous01, I'm not so touchy as to think disagreeing with me is a personal attack.

 

You forgot to quote the rest of my paragraph though, where I followed it up with "Is the kind of respect you get for the size of your paycheck what you really want or should even care about?". I was trying to point out that it's up to the individual (ajaxajax in this case) to determine what kind of respect they want. I don't equate high income and high social status with respect, sure I suppose lots of people do, but it's up to the individual to decide what kind of respect to garner.

 

I generally agree that people are engineered to pursue power and prestige. Again, I think it's up to ajaxajax to determine how much this drives his life and how he goes about gaining power and prestige. He's already posted this thread, so he's questioning things, I think he's well on the way to figuring it out.

 

As for education. I can't disagree with anything mentioned in that link. Education really has become more like job training as you alluded to in an earlier post. For all it's faults though, if you have the desire and drive to learn, no "education system" is going to get in your way. I've gone through the "college/university system" (twice), I know how irritating it can be, but I still think it offers great opportunities for learning and being around smart people. And it's not just the academics, there's a great social aspect as well.

 

I've always been of the belief that education starts at home and not in school.

[Morphous01]

I've always been of the belief that education starts at home and not in school.

 

 

Anthropic,

 

I met a woman who was from Japan. She has been over here for about 4 years. She is a teacher, so we got to talking and the most fascinating aspect that she told me in regards to education is that in Asia they have "two" forms of education; home education and the high school/university education.

 

She went on to explain that this is one of the reasons why South Korea, Japan and China do so well in school compared to the states.

 

Your on the right on the money Anthropic, home education has been lost. If you go back in time the U.S was exceptional in home schooling, but now; children are raised by the T.V and video games...

 

Case in point, I have a small business that I run were part of my job entails going inside each room of my customers homes. Almost every time I go into the children's room all the bookshelves which should have books in them have been replaced by hundreds of DVD's, video games, ipods, and other various electronic gadgets... I don't even think some of these kids know what a book is..

[ajaxajax]

Take it easy, guys...lol! Both sides are generally valid. The BIGGEST problem I have is that I am perfectly ok with how I am, but have been feeling like a nervous wreck at times because of this not translating into other people genuinely seeing me as genuinely acceptable. And I wondered if being rather successful overrides personal character as THE "X factor" that "hooks" people onto any person.

 

Like...at high school, I got into a lot of fights earlier on but then appeared to gain a lot of respect (and perhaps jealousy) from staff and students by being allowed to be myself. Yet, with girls, I only received nothing more than empty, meaningless flirts while most of them dated older guys (often to their detriment) and/or those from other high schools. Some even jokingly tried to have me being romantic towards a fatter lady who I did not like just because of her size at one time and a "special education" girl at another.

 

And, what's with the idea of some women acting civil towards men yet wanting to throw panties onto Ferraris of only a group of men who are, in their eyes, "select"?