JadedStar Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I agree that a woman who makes no attempt to pay on a date after the first or even second one might have an entitlement attitude. We have a guy friend who dates this girl who makes me so aggravated. She NEVER offers to pay, they have been dating a year, and not only does she not offer to pay she expects dinners at fancy places all the time. Can't blame her too much tho as he tolerates it. He comiplains about it constantly but never puts his foot down and continues to do it. Needless to say i can't stand the girl and she is spoiled and thinks things are owed to her because she happens to have a vagina. I have always offered to pay - even on date one, altho i will be honest and say the guy who jumps on that offer on date one likely doesn't get a date two. It is not about freeloading it is about chivalry and since i am still a bit old fashioned with dating i like likeminded people. But i always insist on paying my share after those initial "get to know ya dates". It's only fair. Link to comment
StrawberryYogurt Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 How is that a point? It sounds like an unbased opinion to me. I'm not trying to be mean, but I've heard this before and I can recognize it for what it is. Whatever...real men aren't about what women should "earn". All I meant by "earned" is that she's a genuinely great awesome person and G/F so I don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of if I am unselfish. She's unselfish too. I don't put many people first over me, only truly special people. 1st 2-3 dates, how do I know if some girl is special or freeloader? Link to comment
Gratsy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 So "real men" treat women as charity cases? All he's saying is a woman that makes no attempt to pay on later dates is a bit of a freeloader and being a freeloader is a very unattractive trait for most guys, even if it isn't for you. How is a traditional ritual a charity case? To me it shows the woman that the guy actually wants to be with her...that he's not just chilling, that he is truly interested. If he has a serious issue with paying, I think that Mama didn't really teach him enough values at home cuz he doesn't know how to truly treat a woman. He only knows how to take care of women who settle. I agree that a woman who makes no attempt to pay on a date after the first or even second one might have an entitlement attitude. We have a guy friend who dates this girl who makes me so aggravated. She NEVER offers to pay, they have been dating a year, and not only does she not offer to pay she expects dinners at fancy places all the time. Can't blame her too much tho as he tolerates it. He comiplains about it constantly but never puts his foot down and continues to do it. Needless to say i can't stand the girl and she is spoiled and thinks things are owed to her because she happens to have a vagina. I have always offered to pay - even on date one, altho i will be honest and say the guy who jumps on that offer on date one likely doesn't get a date two. It is not about freeloading it is about chivalry and since i am still a bit old fashioned with dating i like likeminded people. But i always insist on paying my share after those initial "get to know ya dates". It's only fair. Thats a year...these guys are calling women freeloaders b/c they don't offer to pay for the 2cnd or 3rd date. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 All I meant by "earned" is that she's a genuinely great awesome person and G/F so I don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of if I am unselfish. She's unselfish too. I don't put many people first over me, only truly special people. 1st 2-3 dates, how do I know if some girl is special or freeloader? Real love has nothing to do with worrying about being taken advantage of. Exactly, how do you know? You're judging her before you get to know her b/c she has traditional values: she's automatically a freeloader if she doesn't pay. I'm not saying you don't have a bad relationship, so please don't take that as my point. My point is that there is nothing wrong with a woman who doesn't pay for dates, especially when she's not the one asking. Link to comment
JadedStar Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 How is a traditional ritual a charity case? To me it shows the woman that the guy actually wants to be with her...that he's not just chilling, that he is truly interested. If he has a serious issue with paying, I think that Mama didn't really teach him enough values at home cuz he doesn't know how to truly treat a woman. He only knows how to take care of women who settle. Thats a year...these guys are calling women freeloaders b/c they don't offer to pay for the 2cnd or 3rd date. I think a women should offer to pay her share after the first couple of dates. It's only fair, especially since in the millennium men and women make more similar salaries more than ever, and in many cases women are outearning the men. I don't think a man simply because he has a penis should have to pay more. Now if a business exec is dating a watiress, hopefully he would be chivalrous enough to want to pay far more than her share if the salaries are very different. If she isn't making much and he is he would want to pay I would imagine, if he really likes her. Link to comment
StrawberryYogurt Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 If he has a serious issue with paying, I think that Mama didn't really teach him enough values at home cuz he doesn't know how to truly treat a woman. Thats a year...these guys are calling women freeloaders b/c they don't offer to pay for the 2cnd or 3rd date. Blah, blah, blah. A man only knows how to treat a woman if he's a sucker and pays for everything, eh? Great attitude. We don't want the girl to pay for the 2nd or 3rd date, just her half or so. At least offer something, damn! Link to comment
StrawberryYogurt Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Real love has nothing to do with worrying about being taken advantage of. Real love has nothing to do with the first few dates, that is for many many months, perhaps a year down the line. First few dates is for screening for compatiblity and character, and for having a decent time. Link to comment
Superfreak Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 How is a traditional ritual a charity case? How does something being "traditional" make it the correct way? We have lots of terrible past traditions that we've since discontinued. You said yourself in the post I was responding to, "real men aren't about what a woman should earn"...so if you believe women are entitled to generosity without earning it, would that not be the basic definition of a charity case? To me it shows the woman that the guy actually wants to be with her...that he's not just chilling, that he is truly interested. Or maybe, I don't know, being there and being interesting and interested would let her know that. If he has a serious issue with paying, I think that Mama didn't really teach him enough values at home cuz he doesn't know how to truly treat a woman. He only knows how to take care of women who settle. So women that do offer to pay on dates are somehow second class partners that just settled? Maybe men and women that are fine with the principle of splitting the bill, or taking turns paying early on in the relationship instead just didn't have "there mama's" instill them with sexist expectations and gender entitlement complexes. Thats a year...these guys are calling women freeloaders b/c they don't offer to pay for the 2cnd or 3rd date. When I go on a first date, I'll usually pay and when/if the girl offers to pay I'll let her know that she can next time. Personally I'm extremely uncomfortable with others paying for me, especially if it's routinely done and I'd imagine alot of girls are as well. I would think of a girl that didn't offer to pay on the second date to be a freeloader. It's just considerate to acknowledge by that time that she doesn't always expect a free meal ticket, otherwise that's what I'd assume. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think its better to agree to disagree. Any guy that is going to give me problems about paying when he's the one asking is already showing me early that he's going to be too problematic. Link to comment
Gratsy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Blah, blah, blah. A man only knows how to treat a woman if he's a sucker and pays for everything, eh? Great attitude. We don't want the girl to pay for the 2nd or 3rd date, just her half or so. At least offer something, damn! Perfect example: "blah blah blah"? Yeah, thats logical. That also shows how interested you are in actually listening to a woman's opinion. Lets just say that you and I come from VERY different cultures. I'm done. Link to comment
Superfreak Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Perfect example: "blah blah blah"? Yeah, thats logical. That also shows how interested you are in actually listening to a woman's opinion. Lets just say that you and I come from VERY different cultures. I'm done. Or perhaps it's the fact that your post offered no argument of substance other then the circular logic of "men should pay the first few dates....because they're men" that prompted the "blah, blah's" ? Link to comment
StrawberryYogurt Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Perfect example: "blah blah blah"? Yeah, thats logical. That also shows how interested you are in actually listening to a woman's opinion. Lets just say that you and I come from VERY different cultures. I'm done. No, it shows how interested I am in listening to an illogical person's opinion. How ironic you accuse me of being illogical when the very reason I said blah blah blah to was b/c of you being completely illogical. Tradition for tradition's sake is rarely ever a good thing. Link to comment
Carmine Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 As George on Seinfeld once said, "All I'm asking is that she REACH for the check! That's all! Just a reach! I'll gladly pay for it, but all I want is a reach, and she won't even do that!" Link to comment
Gratsy Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Or perhaps it's the fact that your post offered no argument of substance other then the circular logic of "men should pay the first few dates....because they're men" that prompted the "blah, blah's" ? No, it shows how interested I am in listening to an illogical person's opinion. How ironic you accuse me of being illogical when the very reason I said blah blah blah to was b/c of you being completely illogical. Tradition for tradition's sake is rarely ever a good thing. Its not irony: I never said anything about tradition being merely for tradition's sake. In the converse, however, there is nothing wrong with tradition for tradition's sake. How about this : I continue to date the men of the class and culture that I'm from and you guys can continue to date the women you've dated. Wow, theres an application of logic: problem solved. Link to comment
Superfreak Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 How about this : I continue to date the men of the class and culture that I'm from and you guys can continue to date the women you've dated. Wow, the passive aggressiveness in this quote is off the charts At least you're displaying some sense in bowing out of the thread, though. Link to comment
MD Geist Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Maybe its time you take the step and ask them. Link to comment
daryalove Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I disagree with this. There are men who are willing to respect you as a woman...they will hold doors and they are also very happy to see her doing what she wants e.g., being self sufficient, well educated. This is actually the sexist attitude that resents the leaps and bounds women have made and doesn't recognize cultural rituals. Different roles from tradition aren't necessarily lower roles in tradition... Thank you and well-put! I'm a doctor to be and have been out with C.E.Os, lawyers and doctors .... it seems like among this group of men my rules are well-understood! Link to comment
Carmine Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thank you and well-put! I'm a doctor to be and have been out with C.E.Os, lawyers and doctors .... it seems like among this group of men my rules are well-understood! Well then, by all means, continue to restrict yourself to your affluent upper-class while we, the lowly plebeians, continue with our sleazy and primitive culture. Link to comment
galaxy71 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Why do you even waste time arguing with these women who have some extremely offensive attitudes toward letting the man pay for all the dates? You can't change their minds. The 1950's are over. The reason why guys have traditionally paid for dates was the fact that men have in the past made a lot more money than women. In the past, women were barred from professions like politicians, police officers, lawyers, and doctors. Now that women are getting advanced degrees and higher paying jobs, I am surprised that women cling to traditonal beliefs that benefit them. These women think it's sexist to think that women belong in the home. Yet it is chivalrous to expect guys to pay for all the dates even though the woman can support herself. Certain women pick and choose which norms of equality and chivalry they like. I have seen these arguments on internet websites for a long time. Link to comment
galaxy71 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I'm 29, 5'7", HWP, attractive, well-educated and confident. But, no guy has ever come up to me and asked me out! I am trying to figure out what's wrong with me after being single for a year! I've tried online dating and most guys usually call me up for second and third dates and so forth and tell me that I'm very attractive ... but I don't know why I don't get asked out like other women do ... I never hang out in bars, but have heard of people getting phone #s in coffee shops and grocery stores ..... why not me? My guess is that my confidence is intimitading for guys .... or may be most guys think I'm out of their league? I could use your suggestions! This thread is worthless without pictures. How do we know that you are attractive. I do not see any pic at all. Link to comment
Lowconfidence Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thank you and well-put! I'm a doctor to be and have been out with C.E.Os, lawyers and doctors .... it seems like among this group of men my rules are well-understood! If you are a doctor, no wonder you don't get many dates! So intimidating! Link to comment
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