Ex just called in tears

[EyesOnThePrize]

I'm in a real dilemma here, although I think I know what I'm going to do. I recounted elsewhere that I shipped on of our cats off to my ex yesterday. I made a post in my LiveJournal about it, and part of that said:

 

The guy asked me "If you're going to miss her so much, why are you sending her?" And I told him "Because I made a promise that I would, and because I love my ex more than I love this cat."

 

I know my ex has been reading my Live Journal, because she's mentioned my posts in her other contact with me (Except for some necessary e-mails about taxes and this cat, all contact has come from her end). This morning, I get a voice mail from her at 6 AM my time. She is in tears, says she's just read the post and says that the experience is hard for her, too, and she's sorry to call so early, but she's having a very tough time right now, and she misses everything and she just wants to talk to someone she knows, she wants to see how I'm doing, and then apologizes again for calling so early. I go downstairs to check my e-mail, and she had responded to the Live Journal post. Her response was:

 

It's hard for both of us. We both love the cat. I'm crying, too.

 

Thank you for keeping your promise. It really means the world to me.

 

The icon she used for the response was one that says '..and if you've got not choice, you know you can follow my voice." My ex has several dozen icons, so that was not a random choice. She put it there for a reason.

 

Okay, so this is only 26 1/2 days of NC with me. And I think I'm calling back in a little while. I think that this is the sort of break I wanted from her, and I think its showing problems with her and slimeball. I don't know what standing on ceremony and waiting another 3 1/2 days will prove at this point. I think NC is having the desired result. If I'm wrong, I can start over. And my gut says that calling back is the right thing right now. I'm not going to call back for a little while, though. I can say I left the phone downstairs and didn't hear it until I came downstairs. Plus, it really does need a recharge and I have a long call scheduled at 8 AM. I'm going to hop in the shower before I call. I will let her have a little of my time, and I don't want her to think its back to "she says 'Jump', I say 'how high'?"

 

And I am concerned, because of her depression and suicidal tendencies.

[uk_incoming]

Depression - the cause of my breakup!!

 

I was VERY needy, attention-seekin & clingy. She need to focus on her career and finances (both of which are in a state!)

 

She's given me suicidal tlak before, although I don't think she'd actually do it - but she does self-harm!

 

I think NC can bring a lover back if you broke up for reasons you shouldn't have.

 

NC should be for healing ONLY if they cheated, abused, used, lied or generally treated you like crap.

 

NC I think could have a strong effect if they really cared for you and really loved you!

 

Good luck my man, gauge her responses as best you can!

[EyesOnThePrize]

My story is all over this board, and there were still very strong feelings between us. I understand why my ex did what she did. The NC was for me to heal as much as anything, and I expected her to have a tougher time with it than I did. That has turned out to be the case. My only real worry is that it sets my healing back a bit.

 

That being said, I don't want to discuss the relationship with her at this point. I think that could be a major setback. At any rate, off to charge the phone and shower!

[knightNshiningarmor]

curious as to how this pans out...hit us back later

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Be very careful. She is still with the other guy. She may say she misses you and gets all teary eyed but the fact of the matter is that whatever she SAYS, her actions are that she is still with another man. She can boo hoo all she wants but that doesn't change the fact that she CHOSE to be with another man and is NOT CHANGING THAT.

Don't get all soft and hopeful...she needs to "man up" and do something concrete if she really feels that remorseful.

[postscript]

and I don't want to think its back to "she says 'Jump', I say 'how high'?"

 

sorry i don't have too much advice - but man, that phrase. i've been hearing that phrase a lot lately. constantly being reminded that i shouldn't be with someone who i'd go to any lengths for - yet always get half that in return..

i don't know..

[EyesOnThePrize]

Be very careful. She is still with the other guy. She may say she misses you and gets all teary eyed but the fact of the matter is that whatever she SAYS, her actions are that she is still with another man. She can boo hoo all she wants but that doesn't change the fact that she CHOSE to be with another man and is NOT CHANGING THAT.

Don't get all soft and hopeful...she needs to "man up" and do something concrete if she really feels that remorseful.

 

CAD - I agree, and I am going in with no expectations. In fact, I decided that I will send her a short text that says "Just got your message. Meetings all AM. Will call later today." This is actually true, I do have an 8 AM, a 10 AM and an 11:30 AM meeting.

 

Honestly, based on her tone, I have no idea what's going on with the other guy. It may be that there are real problems there, it may be that she called me because she couldn't get in touch with him, it could be a lot of things. Step 4 - Be available minimally...that's all I plan. I have promised myself that I am not going to take slimeball's position in their relationship. If she has issues with him, she needs to resolve them with him, not come crying to me. Once she resolves them and wants to talk about "us", I'll talk. If this call is just about complaining about him, its going to end quickly.

[EyesOnThePrize]

sorry i don't have too much advice - but man, that phrase. i've been hearing that phrase a lot lately. constantly being reminded that i shouldn't be with someone who i'd go to any lengths for - yet always get half that in return..

i don't know..

 

postscript - We were very codependent. I was mostly blind to it. I've opened my eyes now. My ex might never want a new relationship with me because the ground rules would be different, and I won't give her that level of submission anymore. If that's what she needs from a guy, she needs it from someone other than me.

[eurocar]

I would not send her a text notifying her that you'll call her later. That tells her you care too much. I would instead just call her whenever you're ready.

[EyesOnThePrize]

I would not send her a text notifying her that you'll call her later. That tells her you care too much. I would instead just call her whenever you're ready.

 

Interesting thought. And I know myself well enough to know that when I say something is "interesting", it means I'm not sure how it sits with me. Like if I say "That food tasted interesting", it means "I'm not sure if I'd order it again." lol.

[eurocar]

Interesting thought. And I know myself well enough to know that when I say something is "interesting", it means I'm not sure how it sits with me. Like if I say "That food tasted interesting", it means "I'm not sure if I'd order it again." lol.

 

Your call...

[EyesOnThePrize]

Your call...

 

Well, I haven't sent a text yet, fwiw.

[Litgirl01]

I'm sure it's very hard and scary for her to be on her own! Kind of like a child that goes off to college and calls her parents in tears.

[emalkoc]

I recall my ex called me after 5 weeks NC and crying. same situation. If I were you, I would be very firm and direct. Something like, look you made a choice and you have to live with it now. I am working on moving on and if you want to work out our issues, I am here but very short time. and, please dont contact to me if you dont want to reconcile.

 

This is because she is with someone else. She is looking for a security blanket now and you need to pull the rug underneath her..

 

good luck.

 

eric

[NorthDallas40]

EOTP it sounds like you're handling things sensibly & cautiously - I've respected that about your posts, as well as the positive words you've always given about my situation.

 

I agree you don't need to send a text beforehand. Just call when you can. If she picks up, great, otherwise just leave a simple non-emotional VM. Kudos also for trying to avoid being her therapist. Because despite her depressional tendencies, she's NOT your problem anymore. She needs to work herself WITHOUT you now. Plus it doesn't sound like she's leaving this guy yet, just feeling lonely. You don't need to satisfy her emotional needs by being the gapfiller of slimeball's deficiencies.

 

Good luck with everything and keep us posted.

[EyesOnThePrize]

I spoke to my therapist and he suggested that I "set an appointment" with her to listen and that I make sure to enforce my boundaries (i.e., say "Okay, I can talk at 1 PM. How long do you want to talk?" and if she says "an hour", say "Well, I've only got about 30 minutes." I did that. We'll see how it goes.

 

He especially counseled me to stay away from problem solving, unless she specifically requests it. My job is to listen and be supportive, not to make the conversation about me. Remembering that her calling me makes sense to her, I want to get her sense. He even says that if she brings up ole slimeball, its okay to even say "Well, I gotta be honest. I'd rather you were with me anyway, so there's part of me that has hoped its going badly." I know this flies in the face of a lot of what's been written here, and he also said "That can be one of your five lines where you get to give one line for her every thirty."

 

We'll see how it goes. I'm exceptionally nervous about the call, and I need the several hours beforehand to get composed, because I have to really be careful about enforcing my boundaries.

 

BTW, Al Turtle says hi to everyone on ENA.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I have to wonder why your counsellor is giving you this kind of advice...it basically sounds like he is telling you to pander to her needs. I am not sure how that would result in reconciliation between the two of you. To me it seems like by doing this you are giving her the message that she can always fall back on even if she is living with and screwing other men. She is very needy and dependent.

[PushingDaisies]

Hey eyes,

 

I wanted to say thanks for your advice to me, its really helped and throw in a vote of support here. Let us know how it goes, I really wish you the best of luck.

 

Sorry I couldn't offer any advice (although it doesnt really matter as everyone has given great advice ) but I just wanted to throw in some support let us know how it went.

 

Katie

[theredrocket]

I have to wonder why your counsellor is giving you this kind of advice...it basically sounds like he is telling you to pander to her needs. I am not sure how that would result in reconciliation between the two of you. To me it seems like by doing this you are giving her the message that she can always fall back on even if she is living with and screwing other men. She is very needy and dependent.

 

CAD,

 

I don't disagree with you in this specific case because I do think it would be a mistake for eyes to give in, in this case but in general I think that at some point the dumpee has to be prepared to take the risk of being hurt again and put themselves out there either by contacting, allowing contact or by being there. I notice that most of your advice, which I always look for and respect, seems to be never giving in unless the dumper completely caves and says they want to work on rebuilding the relationship. But I have my doubts how realistic this is. Isn't there something to be said for small steps? And again, doesn't the dumpee at some point have to decide to either walk away completely or be willing to take the risk of rejection?

 

I would love to read your thoughts on this?

[EyesOnThePrize]

I have to wonder why your counsellor is giving you this kind of advice...it basically sounds like he is telling you to pander to her needs. I am not sure how that would result in reconciliation between the two of you. To me it seems like by doing this you are giving her the message that she can always fall back on even if she is living with and screwing other men. She is very needy and dependent.

 

CAD - I get that you're hearing it that way, and I see it differently. I hear it as presenting me as a more attractive alternative to her current situation, not as a fall back plan. Its about becoming a source of safety to her lizard. I have bought into the concept of link removed. One of the main things about it is that people who are safe do not leave...there is no reason to leave. When people's lizards are in unsafe mode, they go to flee, fight, freeze or submit. In my ex's case, all 4 sometimes happen, although freeze is least common. My lizard tends to go to fight and flee the most. However, if the lizard is safe, it goes to play, mate, nurture and creative work. IMO, that's a better place to be. Since she moved, my lizard has been in a pretty good mood, and I've been doing a lot more play, nuture and creative work (I'm working on the mate part...lol). I'm nervous about the call, because if my lizard goes into fight, its going to get ugly. And I know our history to know that mine tends to jump into fight when hers does, which is why I'm giving mine a lot of pep talks this morning.

 

I believe that her lizard is not feeling safe where she is, otherwise there would be no reason for the call. And, if her lizard feels safe with me, and not safe with him, then there's no reason for him, either. One of my posters says "You will never get love by chasing a lizard." I agree with this. If her lizard was already fleeing, the pushing and the like I did only made her flee faster. By going NC, and maybe LC here, I am respecting her boundaries, and not chasing/pushing and her lizard feels safe. However, the "be available minimally" part is key to this, IMO. Too much puts her back into flee or fight.

 

Think about it this way. If you were with a partner where you always felt safe, and never felt the need to go into unsafe behavior, why would you ever want anyone else? You'd already have everything you want (well, I would, I can really only speak for me). Now, I don't think that its realistic to never have your lizard feel unsafe, but if you can hit 90%, I think you're doing great. If you are in a situation where your lizard is feeling unsafe 75% of the time and an alternative is presented where you feel safe 75% of the time, which way would you be drawn? Some might argue that "well, sure you let her lizard feel safe and then she goes back to him because she's calmed down" and that doesn't change my belief that she's then going to feel unsafe with him 75% of the time unless he radically changes his behavior, and if he doesn't, that 75% is likely to rise. Meanwhile, if my 75% safe is raising because I'm learning new, more effective behaviors, and listening to her and validating her, where do you think she's going to want to be?

 

Is there risk involved? Yes, I think so. And the way I'm going about this makes sense to me (of course it does...lol). I'm also not at all being an advocate of full contact now...this is about transitioning NC to LC. Its about working on myself visibly. Mostly, its about becoming a source of safety to her lizard, though.

 

So, we'll see. IMO, the worst thing that happens is its a bad phone call and I realize I'm not healed enough and have to go back into NC.

 

That's just my thoughts, and my sense on it.

[EyesOnThePrize]

Hey eyes,

 

I wanted to say thanks for your advice to me, its really helped and throw in a vote of support here. Let us know how it goes, I really wish you the best of luck.

 

Sorry I couldn't offer any advice (although it doesnt really matter as everyone has given great advice ) but I just wanted to throw in some support let us know how it went.

 

Katie

 

Katie,

 

My love language is "words of affirmation", so your post means as much or more to me than any advice could. Thanks.

[PushingDaisies]

You're welcome you're posts have helped me so much, I just wanted to let you know I'm rooting for you.

 

Keep us up to date, I'd love to know how you're getting on.

 

Best of luck!

 

Katie

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I guess I see it that if someone dumps you, why should you have to fight for their affections and try to "Win Out" over someone else. It is like being in some kind of contest between you and the other man and the so-called prize is her. How is she such a prize if she is sitting on the fence waiting for whichever knight to win her hand. It puts her in such a passive mode she just sits back and decides which man wins her royal highness. As far as I am concerned, if someone ditches a long term relationship for another person then let them go because twisting yourself into a pretzel to try to win them back from the other person only gives a false sense of security...if someone else turns up and "saves them" they will turn their head in that direction. To me all bets are off if they have another partner...they need to ditch the other partner first before I would make concessions.

 

Redrocket...I agree with your notion of small steps...but if the dumper goes off with another partner then the onus is on him or her to initate reconciliation AFTER dumpin the other partner. The dumpee should not be interfering in that other relationship...the initial decision to reconcile needs to come from the person who embarked on another relationship.

 

If a dumper ended the relationship because he/she fell out of love or just didn't want the relationship anymore...what is the point of the dumpee running after the dumper. If the dumper changes his/her mind they will be back...and if they don't come back then they didn't want it bad enough. If the dumpee takes the chance then the dumper learns that he/she can do anything and not have to put themselves out because the dumpee will always eventually come running. However, if the dumper ended the relationship because the dumpee took them for granted or did some things which sabotaged the relationship, then I think the onus is on the dumpee to make the amends and initiate things. For me it is a matter of whoever was in the wrong needs to right the wrong to help make the other person feel more secure.

[JadedStar]

Be very careful. She is still with the other guy. She may say she misses you and gets all teary eyed but the fact of the matter is that whatever she SAYS, her actions are that she is still with another man. She can boo hoo all she wants but that doesn't change the fact that she CHOSE to be with another man and is NOT CHANGING THAT.

Don't get all soft and hopeful...she needs to "man up" and do something concrete if she really feels that remorseful.

 

RIGHT! I agree with this !!! Proceed with caution Eyez! We'd hate to see your heart ripped out again.

 

Even dumpers have remorse about their actions but that doesn't mean they would go back in time and change it.

[JadedStar]

I have to wonder why your counsellor is giving you this kind of advice...it basically sounds like he is telling you to pander to her needs. I am not sure how that would result in reconciliation between the two of you. To me it seems like by doing this you are giving her the message that she can always fall back on even if she is living with and screwing other men. She is very needy and dependent.

 

Again i agree with CAD. I think the counselor is giving you advice that gives her more control. There is really no need to meet with her at all this soon while the wound is so fresh. She needs to start lying in the bed she made not yours.