legalish question

[confusedmama]

Got a call from the orthodontist just a little while ago about the fact the ex is refusing to pay for his share of our middle child's braces. This has been on the table since October.

 

Some background-this is something that was supposed to be dealt with in March when we went ot court, but the lawyers decided to put it off. The only thing on the table with this is instead of him pay 43% & me 57% I'm asking for a 50/50 split as we BOTH have dental insurance (not that it cover much with orthodontics). He had the oppotunity to add ortho waiver in April to help with cost (something he lied about that caused me to wait until April to "help"him out-WHY DO I ALWAYS DO THAT??) He chose NOT to add the rider. When I go that info I had the Orthodontist re-write the contract dividing 50/50 with me getting the credit for the insurance. And I set up the oral surgery appt.

 

My son is complaining that his mouth hurts becasue of the way his teeth are forming. It is way past time to take care of this issue. I am considering putting all the ortho costs on my credit card (the way I was paying for my share anyway) and then forcing him to pay me instead of the ortho. My anger is getting in the way of my reality and I guess I'm looking for suggestions.

[RayKay]

Can't you pay for it so your son can have his surgery, and then apply to the court to have him pay for his share? I would hate to delay it more if he is in pain....

 

Then again, if the ortho has drawn up an agreement that he pays 1/2 of it....it's almost easier for you that they go after him (and they have more resources to do so I imagine) for it and then you are not involved in it. But if he has not agreed to that contract, then they won't be able to do much as he has not been party to the contract....and would go after you for it anyway.

[greensleeves]

I think you need to get your son's teeth taken care of right away and deal with the legal issues later. In addition to relieving your son's pain and ensuring that all the money you're spending on his braces won't be wasted, it may just guilt your ex into doing the right thing.

[ImThatGirl]

Did you ex sign an agreement to pay 50/50?

 

What is the office saying? That until he pays nothing will be done?

 

If you can pull it off by paying with credit and then taking him back to court to pay, I'd do that.

 

But - - - that is going to cost more money as well. (attorney fee's, etc. etc.)

 

Has he said what the hold up is?

[confusedmama]

The ortho won't take the contract until both are signed OR I sign to take care of the entire thing. They want their $$-I don't blame them.

 

Right now the agreement is he pays 43% & I pay 57%, which is OK as he carries them on his medical insurance, but since we BOTH carry dental insurance I have petitioned the court to have that changed to 50/50.

 

He has decided NOT to carry the ortho rider on his dental insurance-so when I had them write up the contract, my ortho rider is completely applied to my share of the bill. He thinks that $$ should be taken off the top and then divided. 43-57.

 

He lied to me & the court about the ortho rider, which I waited out since October, and now has decided he doesn't need to carry it. I am frustrated, if I would have known this would happen (and I guess I did as I told my lawyer I was afraid of this) I would have had the entire thing taken care of in October and not waited until now 7 months later.

 

His hold up is $$ and control. He doesn't feel he should have to spend $$ on the boys-his child support should take care of everything "That why I pay child support"- and I have made the appointments around my & the boys schedule, not his. I guess I look at it-if you aren't paying you don't have much of a say as to when. I always let hm know when the appointments are.

[RayKay]

Ah well, here child support has the base amount, but things like ortho, extra-curriculars are "additional expenses" that is shared between the parents on top of child support.

 

Sorry he is being like that. My bio dad was like that too - not understanding that child support just covers towards essentially food, basic clothing, towards shelter.....and that the other parent is also expected to be contributing towards the child too....so additional expenses are just that...additional expenses!

[confusedmama]

When I asked for the extra $$ to help out with camp fees, recreation fees etc. The judege actually said she couldn't force him to pay half as he pays child support ($430/month for 3 boys). SO I got no help from there. He has taken that literally and won't buy shoes, haircuts or anything needed.

 

I am going to put it all on the credit card-I have to take care of my child-and simply hope and pray that when we go back to court in June he will have to repay me. I can't stand that my child is hurting and asking about his teeth.

[just M.E.]

How much would you gain by pushing for the extra 7%? Is it worth it to go after that extra amount in light of legal costs?

 

Will your ex pay the 43%? I know lots of questions, but is that $430/month total for the 3 or is it $430 x 3?

 

I went trough orthodonic work as a teen also, a lot of expense and in some ways very worth it, in other ways my teeth have gone back to somewhat original position. Do you have a second opinion on the work recommended? Are you confident with this orthidonist?

[RayKay]

Well they are going to factor in how much the child support could go (like cost of activities versus support being paid).

 

My dad paid $100/month for us each (three kids) which is really considered quite low of course, they divorced way before the child support guidelines ever came into play and by the time they did my mum was doing alright even though she could of gone and had the amount increased (he was bad at paying that amount anyway) so just let it go. But even with that low amount he sometimes complained my mum was spending it all on new cars (which she got through work on a lease!) or for the house (duh, child support includes going towards shelter), etc. Meanwhile my mum was working her ass off to keep the mortgage up and put food on the table. I agree that it is often a control issue.......and it sucks!

 

Here orthodontics would generally be considered shareable, as braces for example are generally pretty high cost (aren't they $3,000+ or something...I think my sisters cost like $4-5,000 when she had them).

 

I would definitely get his treatments done, keep the bills and when you go back to court make sure to also make a claim for his share of the amount.

[just M.E.]

Ray Kay, you are one year older than my daughter and I was divorced from her father when she was 2. I got $125 a month, and had to get my own health insurance, etc. When she became a teenager, she made her dad feel embarrassed by how low it was and he paid $200 for the last few years.

 

It's tough to do, my day care while I worked in those days was $300/mon. CS didn't cover much.

[RayKay]

Ray Kay, you are one year older than my daughter and I was divorced from her father when she was 2. I got $125 a month, and had to get my own health insurance, etc. When she became a teenager, she made her dad feel embarrassed by how low it was and he paid $200 for the last few years.

 

It's tough to do, my day care while I worked in those days was $300/mon. CS didn't cover much.

 

I was 7 when they split, with a 2 year old brother and sister whom was still a bun-in-the-oven (ha).

 

Yes, my mum had to go back to school (college at nights) as she had her undergrad but had not worked since I was born (I was a surprise in her last year of school) as my dad was a truckdriver and on road so she had to stay home....and work full time; it was tough I know. We ate a lot of homemade soup (you know..one day it's vegetable, the next day its vegetable noodle, then it's chicken noodle on a pay day).

 

I am estranged for most part from my dad (except maybe one or two short phone calls a year) so I could never be bothered to embarrass him; I just pity him a lot for missing out on mostly my younger siblings lives. He is not really "wealthy" (I mean he lives in a trailer and is a truck driver and has another family to support now) and it was never so much the money part that bothered me, just the comments (I did not find out about them until years later by the way) and basically the "ditching one family" for the other.

 

I would of taken emotional support to us kids ANY day over child support, and quite honestly my mum would have too.

[just M.E.]

RayKay, your mum and I led parrallel lives but for me less kids, my daughter is in the same situation. Her dad never saw her graduate from college or his granddaughter, he'll never see any of that. A very weak man, a man with backbone wouldn't ignore his children.

[confusedmama]

It is $430 for all 3. The braces will be over $3600 with the oral surgery another 300 after insurance. So yes, the 7% is quite substancial, close to $800 I think, I have done the math. The health insurance is different because he is court ordered to pay for the boys(but that is another battle completely). I think because we BOTH pay for dental insurance for the boys it should be 50/50, that is all I'm asking in court as far as the braces go. We will be back in court on other items when this is brought up.

 

I wish I could make it without the CS, I have said that many times, I can't. This for him is all about control and not having to pay for the boys. He feels, I'm the one that forced the divorce I should have to pay for it all.

 

I too with that he would emotionally support the boys, rather that emotionally wring them out. He continually puts them in the middle of these discussions and who knows what he says when they are with him. I know it is hard without a father, but I am unsure that it is better with a father who acts this way. A man with a backbone would do what it right for the children, no matter who/what is involved.

[just M.E.]

It is $430 for all 3.

I wish I could make it without the CS, I have said that many times, I can't. This for him is all about control and not having to pay for the boys. He feels, I'm the one that forced the divorce I should have to pay for it all.

 

$430 is not enough, it is disgraceful. These are his sons.

 

I too with that he would emotionally support the boys, rather that emotionally wring them out. He continually puts them in the middle of these discussions and who knows what he says when they are with him. I know it is hard without a father, but I am unsure that it is better with a father who acts this way. A man with a backbone would do what it right for the children, no matter who/what is involved.

 

There is a crude old saying "Wish in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up first" This tiger isn't changing his spots. I don't blame you for trying but you will find more peace of mind when you find true acceptance of this. I know it is hard, I just have the "Been there, Done that" pin. You and your sons count the most, try get what you need but understand it will never be fair because he is an unjust man.

[confusedmama]

Thanks! I know it won't ever change. I am just afraid for my children and I am angry that I have to justify my every move to the court-because HE says so. He is now mis-representing the court documents (not that this is unusual) stating that the braces are "tabled" until June when we go back to court. Seeing as how the only thing coming before the court about the braces is the 50/50 split, I am unsure how the braces are "tabled".

 

What has me nervous, is that the oral surgeon's appt. is for Fri. and as the boys are with him on Thurs. nights will he show up with the child at the appt.? He has missed appt. before so I can't put it past him. I am scared and furious!!!

[greensleeves]

My son is complaining that his mouth hurts becasue of the way his teeth are forming. It is way past time to take care of this issue. I am considering putting all the ortho costs on my credit card (the way I was paying for my share anyway) and then forcing him to pay me instead of the ortho. My anger is getting in the way of my reality and I guess I'm looking for suggestions.

 

What you've said above is the most important thing of all. By delaying his treatment, you're putting your son in the middle of this just as much as your ex is, even though it's not really your fault. You have the credit to get the work taken care of, so get it done as soon as possible. If you take the high road at all times, your ex cannot tear you down in front of your children, and your kids will know that you put them first, that they were more important to you than the petty arguments. Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say here...I'm a single parent of two boys and I know how difficult it can be. I had to use a similar tactic on my ex way back in the beginning, I don't even remember what it involved...but it made him look like a complete petty jerk, and he has towed the line as far as sharing expenses ever since. If you have a legally binding separation agreement stating that he has to pay extra medical, school and extra curricular payments above and beyond child support, his share being based on a ratio of your two incomes, then he has to pay it and the courts will rule in your favour. Judges do not look favourably at deadbeat dads who refuse to pay their share and she will look favourably on you if you've gone ahead and had the dental work completed. You will probably be able to claim (and be awarded) any additional interest that you've incurred as a result of his delay in paying you. Here in Ontario, we have something called the Family Responsibility Office where women who are having trouble getting their child support and extra expenses from their exes are paid directly through them, so they don't even have to deal with their exes. They garnishee the child support and additional funds directly from their paycheques. For those who are in arrears, they will even seize vehicles and driver's licenses can be revoked if they do no pay. It's a pretty good system, but fairly new (maybe 10 years old). Do they have anything like that where you live?

[confusedmama]

His wages are garnished-because of 5 months of non-payment. But there is nothing extra for anything else, it is all considered part of the CS he pays. All the other fees come from me. Our system while helpful-as long as they are working and doing like they are supposed too.

 

Because of the joint custody-although I have physical custody-I still have to deal with the ex on medical issues.

 

I have decided to get it done-although it will max this card out and I may never see the $$ from the ex. My child does come first. I have justhad some bad experiences with the courts and so while I feel and think I'm doing the right thing, I may be wrong in the eyes of the court. That makes me nervous

[confusedmama]

Well, I guess the god news is he did bring Davis to the appt. and all 7 teeth were pulled and now we get to mover forward with the braces. D is fine, although with BIG gaping holes in his mouth. Funny how they look worse now than they did before he had them pulled.

 

No big drama, except when the recepionist asked if the ex was paying he looked like the a** he is and told them "NO! His mother will have to take care of it". I got that pity look from the receptionist. Of course he left before I had to get D to the car or home its just a good thing he doesn't weigh much.

 

Now, that this part is over he has started back in on the older son. HE now wants to come to the counselling sessions and has been emailing the counsellor-but he refuses to come in by himself because he won't pay for it. He is also refusing to give him the ADD medication.

 

This is soooo infuriating!

[just M.E.]

I had braces and went through that, having them pulled but I was a 16 year girl, very traumatic, went to college with braces on, I never looked my age anyway so couldn't get away with a fake ID back then like all my peers

[confusedmama]

Shouldn't be an issue with D being 10 I hope he isn't trying fake IDs already!! Braces are set to go on May 12th. He is actually excited.

[just M.E.]

I always have been late on everything! LOL

 

Good luck on everything, is D your youngest?

[greensleeves]

I'm glad you got his teeth done and that he's doing okay! Your ex is an ass, there's no escaping that and hopefully you'll be able to get reimbursed on some of the cost for this when it all goes to court. At least you can feel good about yourself knowing that you did the right thing for your child and you were the better person. Meanwhile he has to live with the fact that he is quibbling over $'s instead of doing what's best for your children.

 

Just remember, someday he'll have to deal with Karma.

[confusedmama]

I keep waiting for that karma to catch up to him. I know that it will. He showed that to the counsellor this week as he demands to be involved but refuses to come in for a session on his own that he would have to pay for, just makes him look worse & worse. Glad SOME of the professionals can see through him. I just hope the judge looks closer at his "reasons" and sees it also.

 

D is my middle child. I have 3 boys 14, 10, 7. Life isn't dull around here

[greensleeves]

I have two boys, 15 & 17 and I'm a single mom too...it's very hard sometimes and I think with three it must be crazy for you

 

Hang in there, I'm sure the judge will see what your ex is up to...they've seen it all and should be pretty good a spotting someone who's putting on an act.

[confusedmama]

Thats what I keep hoping!! Thanks for the encouragement. I guesssince I see through him so easily-now-that I want everybody else to also, especially after 3 years of this crap.