Its not who you are, its what you do and what you earn?

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

Will this cause US into a financial crisis? Is there any solution to this problem? Would there be increase in income tax?

[poloplayer]

Hi -

 

Will this cause US into a financial crisis? Is there any solution to this problem? Would there be increase in income tax?

 

Wish I didn't start on that rant - impossible to really address it as there are entire courses and dissertations devoted to it.

 

I doubt there will be a major financial crisis. Economists have been debating this for the past few years, and the Fed and Wall Street employee some of the most brilliant minds on the planet. If there needed to be a solution, then they would come up with one.

 

Economics is one of those subjects that are...boring. Most people can care less, but they will easily admit that money makes the world go round

 

My previous post was more geared towards an ancillary effect of a problem. Someone mentioned that many couples forego children for financial reasons, yet there is clear evidence that people do not live within there means. That poses a problem - that couple would not be able to easily adjust to family life which involves sacrifices, especially fiscal sacrifice (kids are expensive).

 

As more and more couple are doing this, it's clearly going to have a macro effect on the economy as well, some short term and others long term. I'm not an economist so I can't say what exactly, but it's been documented in studies that since the 1970's people are not having as many kids, and this is accross most developed nations. Here is a little news clip, but there are many of these online:

 

link removed

 

The thing with the U.S. though, is that the population increase is the result of immigrants and their children - natural citizens have a declining population as well.

[CaptainPlanet]

I suspect once the population will bounce up again with another boom.

 

Edit: I am basing that ofcourse on absolutely nothing.

[CaptainPlanet]

I would have thought the declining population would have something to do with wealth leading to education. In our current system tertiary education can take upto or even more than 7 years. Three or four years minimum for a degree, more females than males take up degrees leads to less time in the workforce leading can't afford to have kids early on, longer wait to be stable, longer wait until you're bored enough to have kids. I would think shorten the length of tertiary education and your birth rate might increase.

 

For example people in the country and tradesmen tend to get married and have kids a lot earlier.

[Scout]

Whats wrong with being a mail sorter ?

Threads like this make me laugh it is a long held notion that "financially stable" means makes a lot of money particularily if it come from a woman.

 

Well, why aren't you taking issue with your fellow male poster, Jay Cutler, who says that he doesn't consider a woman who works as a barrista/or hasn't made much money, as someone who has accomplished anything in life?

 

Just curious.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

its not who you are its what you do and what you earn - people who think like this may as well Shift their hinepotts to the front of their body cz their whole mentality and philosiphy is butt booty balls backwards........

[poloplayer]

Well, why aren't you taking issue with your fellow male poster, Jay Cutler, who says that he doesn't consider a woman who works as a barrista/or hasn't made much money, as someone who has accomplished anything in life?

 

I think this is all from an ignorant perspective.

 

Rule 1 - contempt prior to investigation

Observation 1 - not everyone is dealt the same hand of cards

 

My father has this issue with the neighbors. My father has a 7th grade education, works as a laborer, and speaks English in a heavy accent. The neighborhood where my family lives is stacked with college educated couples, many with graduate degrees, who have "real jobs" with nice titles.

 

My brother has a close friend from high school - we'll call him Ryan. Ryans dad is well educated and a VP of a bank. He has done well for himself. Ryans dad looks down on my father. Although my father is "successful," he is not successful in the traditional sense of the word or successful with respect to status.

 

My dad is not educated. He has a title that people DO NOT strive for in life. And upon meeting him you would think he is a poor, unsuccessful immigrant.

 

What people don't know unless they get to know him is his background. He is a farmboy from Europe who left his family behind at 26 and came to the U.S. on a Visa for a better life. He struggled, he found some employment, forced himself to learn the language, and eventually someone signed his Green Card. He worked hard, he networked, he saved like a madman, he learned about investing his money, and he kept his focus on his goals.

 

His clothes are still shabby, his English still broken, and his car is not fancy. But he owns multi-millions in real estate investments and raised his family in a "good" suburb so his kids can go to decent schools and have a better life. Maybe I am biased because he is my father, but I would tend to think that he is successful given his background as a reference point.

 

Like Ryans dad, not everyone looks at him as a success story. He doesn't have degrees, he doesn't have an office job. You shake the mans hand and it's like rubbing your hand against sandpaper. The point is that he did the absolute best he could given his situation, and personally, I think Ryans dad (as well as others who share his viewpoint) are jerks to put it nicely.

 

I look at others the same way. My parents gave me some opportunities in life. There are others my age who have had more opportunities, as well as many others who have had less. This is not a black and white issue. Everyone is indexed at a different reference point in life. We all have a different set of cards to work with. I'll look at someone by what they have done with the cards that they were dealt, but I will judge them by their character.

 

By the way, many of the baristas I personally know are younger people who have to work to pay the bills and struggle financially. They did not have the luxury of going to college on mom and dad, and could not afford to NOT work and take out massive student loan debt. They are doing the best they can given their situation, and many either are going to school part time or want to go back to school.

 

If you don't want to date them, then don't date them, however, do not judge their worth as a person because of what they do for living. Contempt prior to investigation...

[CaptainPlanet]

Well, why aren't you taking issue with your fellow male poster, Jay Cutler, who says that he doesn't consider a woman who works as a barrista/or hasn't made much money, as someone who has accomplished anything in life?

 

Just curious.

 

Because I want to attract women. I don't care what men think.

[Scout]

Because I want to attract women. I don't care what men think.

 

I think you're missing my point - which is that you're ascribing certain generalizations to women only, and completely overlooking the fact that men are just as capable of being snobs about a woman's financial status.

[CaptainPlanet]

The thread was about women judging men based on what they do and how much money we make.

 

Once I sai,d to a friend of mine who was a girl, jokingly, will you go out with me ? She laughed and said no. Then I asked her, If I earned 75k and drove af a fancy ute would you go out with me then ? She looked at me cheekily and said yes. I could see that there was some degree of sincerity.

[Scout]

The thread was about women judging men based on what they do and how much money we make.

 

Once I sai,d to a friend of mine who was a girl, jokingly, will you go out with me ? She laughed and said no. Then I asked her, If I earned 75k and drove af a fancy ute would you go out with me then ? She looked at me cheekily and said yes. I could see that there was some degree of sincerity.

 

Again, it works both ways. There are both shallow men and women out there. You seem to only notice it when it comes from women, and then make it seem like a women-only issue. I don't think that's fair.

[CaptainPlanet]

I think you're missing my point - which is that you're ascribing certain generalizations to women only, and completely overlooking the fact that men are just as capable of being snobs about a woman's financial status.

 

Read the thread properly imo.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

tooo tell the honest truth i never seen a woman date a dood unless he had a car and a reasonable amount of money

[Scout]

The thread was about women. Now its about social mobility. Now its a charecter assassination.

 

I'm calling into question something I see as a blind spot in your viewpoint, not assassinating your character. There's a huge, huge difference.

 

And threads do tend to digress on eNotalone, especially the more provocative ones.

[JustMovedtoCO]

If you cannot support her and kids, forget it. It is evolutionary and the media has only made it worse. The media makes it seem like it is easy to go make millions when it isn;t and women think men should be wealthy.

Ever see a beautiful woman with a guy that lives paycheck to paycheck? I doubt it.

 

 

 

The thread was about women judging men based on what they do and how much money we make.

 

Once I sai,d to a friend of mine who was a girl, jokingly, will you go out with me ? She laughed and said no. Then I asked her, If I earned 75k and drove af a fancy ute would you go out with me then ? She looked at me cheekily and said yes. I could see that there was some degree of sincerity.

[ConfusedKitty]

If you cannot support her and kids, forget it. It is evolutionary and the media has only made it worse. The media makes it seem like it is easy to go make millions when it isn;t and women think men should be wealthy.

Ever see a beautiful woman with a guy that lives paycheck to paycheck? I doubt it.

 

No.

 

Some of us don't even want kids. When I met my current bf he had the same crap job I did. Did I care about how much money he made? No. Did I care if he was going to be a provider to some snot nosed brat? No. Do I even WANT kids? NO. Do I care how much my bf makes now? Absolutely not. If he quit right now and I had to provide for us and our kittens by myself you better believe I'd love him just as much as I do right now.

 

You'd be surprised how many of us out there don't give a rat's foot about how much a man makes, we care about who the man is.

 

If you find some buxom blonde that lives in Hollywood that's had 14 different surgeries to look like her favorite celebrity OF COURSE she's going to be after money and status. That's a case of player looking for prey, and it is on both sides.

 

Now go shoot me a mammoth so I can cook dinner!

[poloplayer]

Hi -

 

The media makes it seem like it is easy to go make millions when it isn;t

 

Although I don't want to say it's easy, I do think that it's a very simple plan of action to become a millionaire. This isn't a secret formula; it's been around for ages and it's how most millionaires came to wealth. I know quite a few people - most without college degrees - that are millionaires. Most of them are "blue collar" on top of that. It's hard work, taking risks, and living well below your means in a nutshell. You think long term; you don't think I need to buy this now, and you are goal oriented. Make $60,000? Live like you make $20,000. After 5 years of saving $40,000 AND investing it, then you are well on your way.

 

threads do tend to digress on eNotalone, especially the more provocative ones

 

 

[shes2smart]

If you cannot support her and kids, forget it. It is evolutionary and the media has only made it worse. The media makes it seem like it is easy to go make millions when it isn;t and women think men should be wealthy.

Ever see a beautiful woman with a guy that lives paycheck to paycheck? I doubt it.

 

Uh, as I said earlier....I'm perfectly capable of supporting myself and I don't expect anyone else (male or female) to do that for me.

 

I also don't have/don't want/am repulsed by the mere idea of having children, so finding someone to support them is a non-issue.

 

I don't expect "wealthy," but I do expect someone to take care of themselves. I bring that to the table myself, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a potential partner to do the same.

 

Maybe you need to pick some different women..

[CaptainPlanet]

Hi -

 

 

 

Although I don't want to say it's easy, I do think that it's a very simple plan of action to become a millionaire. This isn't a secret formula; it's been around for ages and it's how most millionaires came to wealth. I know quite a few people - most without college degrees - that are millionaires. Most of them are "blue collar" on top of that. It's hard work, taking risks, and living well below your means in a nutshell. You think long term; you don't think I need to buy this now, and you are goal oriented. Make $60,000? Live like you make $20,000. After 5 years of saving $40,000 AND investing it, then you are well on your way.

 

It is really hard and by that I mean it is unlikely that you unlikely to be able to make 60k and you have not included taxes. Not to mention to make money you need an investment with an abormal return otherwise you won't really make much once you consider all things. Housing has been really good to the past generation but I do not expect that it will continue, houses are already way too farking expensive I cannot see myself ever buying one. In sydney it was 8.2 times the average income, they can't keep going up like that.

[poloplayer]

It is really hard and by that I mean it is unlikely that you unlikely to be able to make 60k and you have not included taxes. Not to mention to make money you need an investment with an abormal return otherwise you won't really make much once you consider all things. Housing has been really good to the past generation but I do not expect that it will continue, houses are already way too farking expensive I cannot see myself ever buying one. In sydney it was 8.2 times the average income, they can't keep going up like that.

 

60k was just an example. Take another figure, and you're right, I excluded taxes.

 

Don't buy a house. Get a really crummy apartment. Why fork over hard earned money for a "nice" apartment where your monthly rent check is paying the landlords mortgage? Save that money for something which will be yours one day, be it a house, townhome, etc., whatever you own and call home.

 

Take your hard earned money and invest it. Keep it simple - just toss it into international indices. Those guys have been returning between 20 - 39% anually for the last 3 years.

 

If you care about what others think, then you'll never make it.

 

Example (true story, albeit extreme):

 

Guy starts off in a corporate job out of college at 22 years old at 45k. Performs well, keeps getting an annual raise, and promotions along the way. He never changes his lifestyle - he continues to live as if he was in poverty. Older car, crummy apartment, no toys, doesn't hit the barscene or go out to eat, etc., all passed up except for a nice vacation each year.

 

Same guy retires at 34 while making 135k at the same corporation. Owns a 1.6 million dollar home, toys (lamborghini, etc.) and makes over 250k annually as passive income from his investments.

 

It's a matter of how much you're willing to sacrifice. Most people wouldn't go to that guys extreme (myself included).

[tmp0620]

I think a smaller population would do wonders for the word.

[anna_k]

I know this is about men and I apologise for writing about women but:

 

It's quite hard the other way round. When you, as the woman, make more money than the man. If I don't marry into my profession I'll probably make just as much or more than the guy I end up with. I don't care because you share your money when you're a family but I guess there's a possibility that he might care. I find that men don't care about a woman's title/status as much.

 

I guess my stance on these matters reflects the changing trend that women are making just as much or more than the man of the house. I look for personality and similar values and goals as me. For example, I don't care so much for money as I know I can support myself.

 

That said, I can't be with a man who:

a) recklessly squanders money but can't afford to

b) has no ambition or direction in life

c) has no inclination towards taking care/supporting his family or even starting one

 

As much as the trend is changing there are loads of girls I know who specifically pick guys with respectable titles, jobs and stable finances. A great personality is a great but unecessary extra. I have a feeling its going to be this way for a very long time.

[Scout]

That said, I can't be with a man who:

a) recklessly squanders money but can't afford to

b) has no ambition or direction in life

c) has no inclination towards taking care/supporting his family or even starting one

 

I can't help but wonder - don't men want to avoid women who might have those above characteristics? After all, we are in a mostly two-income financial structure these days.

[kmartin85]

If you cannot support her and kids, forget it. It is evolutionary and the media has only made it worse. The media makes it seem like it is easy to go make millions when it isn;t and women think men should be wealthy.

Ever see a beautiful woman with a guy that lives paycheck to paycheck? I doubt it.

 

I see beautiful women everyday that are in relationships with men that live pay check to pay check.

[Batya33]

I see beautiful women everyday that are in relationships with men that live pay check to pay check.

 

Of course there are. But what does being beautiful have to do with anything? Do you mean that a woman who looks beautiful has more of a choice of men? Not if she has low self esteem, for example, or other inner "issues." And of course some people do not prioritize financial stability in a relationship - particularly people who do not have or want children. And of course you have no idea if the relationship is happy or stable. Huge generalizations here.

 

I totally agree with Scout also about women needing to bring financial stability to the table equally with men. If a woman wants to work in the home with children, optimally she should have sufficient assets so that the dent on the family income is lessened to the greatest extent possible.