Scout

Perhaps you should talk about all this with the girl you're seeing. Seriously, you make some excellent points, and bottom line I think you feel you're being dishonest by sleeping with her yet still wanting the right to see others. I personally don't think you should feel bad, because like you said, alcohol sort of fueled the initial intimate encounter. But talk to her - maybe she will have some insight. Does it look like she wants a relationship already?

Dating - and in fact, building one's social skills - is definitely a learning process, and the one thing you DON'T want to do is get discouraged. Instead, learn to be less hard on yourself, and view this time as a fun discovery phase of the world of dating. You're gonna make mistakes - and you're gonna do some things exactly right. But remember - always get back on the horse and back in the game!

Well, you can't do all the work. It takes two to strike up a real friendship, romantic or not. You say he doesn't talk much or leave his house that often. Are you sure you want to have a crush on this particular guy? Surely there is someone out there who you will feel more comfortable around. I wouldn't say you're a terrible conversationalist. My goodness, if he doesn't talk much himself, you can only hold up your end of the conversation for so long. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just BE YOURSELF, keep things light and fun, and either he'll eventually respond or he won't. Don't force it.

Sure Spatzy, no problem. Anyway, I find that taking things for granted can lead to trouble. My last boyfriend asked me after a month if we could be exclusive. Actually, he just said "You know, I'm not dating anyone else, and I think we should be exclusive." (For the record, I blushed and giggled, hardly the mature response I should have given! But I was taken off guard, and frankly, pleased as punch.)

Anyway, I liked that he made a direct statement instead of a question. It was bold, and gave the impression of confidence.

There's always been some defining moment in my relationships where we bring up the matter of seeing other people...I prefer it that way instead of just taking it for granted. I've often been wrong when I've taken something for granted! I do think that the issue should come up when one of the parties genuinely feels he or she wants the relationship to be exclusive. There's no time frame, either. Of course, two weeks would be way too early in my opinion.

Spatz, a couple more thoughts on this....I've noticed that people get offended anyway if mention you're dating others, whether you've been dating less than a month, haven't agreed to exclusivity, etc. or not. It's really a roll of the dice, I personally am trying to move away from the all or nothing mentality in such a short period of time. But you may run into a little trouble. Check out this post for a pretty good description of what can be going through someone's head very early on in a relationship. I gave the poster some advice that I thought might interest you.

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I feel that until one of the parties brings up exclusivity - and ultimately both parties agree to it - that it's ok to date others.

Thanks Jess for the good luck. I am curious to see what he - and I - do when he gets back! As for your situation, just try, try not to call him back. The ball is most definitely in his court now.

Next time, leave a message. Most people have caller ID these days, so she'll see you called and didn't leave a message. Leaving a message is confident, and you don't want to come accross as insecure.

I too have heard that multi-vitamins make your hair grow faster. You might call your hair stylist and ask her if there any specific nutrients you can take to speed up the process. In the meantime, enjoy your short and sassy summer haircut! I had long hair forever, than wanted a change and had all of it chopped off really short, then dyed platinum blonde! Talk about a change. I actually really liked it afterwards.

Holly, I wanted to let you know something very positive about yourself: you behaved PERFECTLY up until the lunch where you discussed the relationship stuff. So, I don't think you're going to have much trouble in the dating world, you just sort of made a mistake this time...we've all done it. But there truly are even more amazing guys out there. You'll see!

Dear Hollygolightlymn,

 

I think you take dating too seriously compared to normal folks. I understand you very well because I was issued from a religious background myself. However, for most people dating seems just to be a way to have fun (in the best of cases), for men : a way to have free and varied sex, for women : a way to get free rides, restaurant, movies, cell phone, etc.

This is a pretty extreme view. I personally don't date anyone I'm not attracted to, whether they promise to wine me or dine me or not. Sure it's nice to be pampered/spoiled a bit, but I won't allow someone I genuninely don't like to do it. And I do the same in return! I love to cook dinner for my dates, plus I will offer to pay sometimes when we're out, as well. Yes, most red-blooded guys would like the promise of something sexual at the end of the evening, but that isn't the only reason they are dating either.

Also, you say guys will lie and cheat until committed to her. If they aren't committed to her yet, it's not cheating dating other people. So I think those words were a bit extreme, too. Other than that, I think you give some pretty good advice to Hollygolightly. She's taking dating way too seriously at this point. Holly, enjoy this single time in your life, don't try and rush through it. You may never have the opportunity to meet so many people and discover things about yourself again as you have right now. Get to know the "single you"...soon enough, you'll be tied down again.

- Scout

Many days later...well, I think its safe to say this guy has flaked out on me. He was very spotty about returning calls, and so I've decided not to pursue anything with him on a romantic/physical basis. He's in Vegas this weekend, and I sort of hoped we would have gotten together this week before he left, but nope...I just get this lame message from him on Thursday that he's been running around like crazy getting ready for his trip. (busy all week for a three day trip? Please!)

On the other hand, I still like him and think he's funny and interesting, but best to keep him just as a friend. I can already tell he's not exactly the dependable type! Which will drive me nuts in the long run.

I'd like to take a moment here to say that before I started coming to eNotalone, I probably would have flipped out for this guy, and plunged into a very frustrating, unrewarding situation where I would have constantly been stressing out, wondering when I'd hear from him again. And ultimately, putting him in the driver's seat. But what I've learned from this site is patience, the ability to spot a red flag at the very beginning and act on it right then. THANKS ENOTALONE.

Hmmm....interesting question. I think you should probably say instead: "I haven't had a serious relationship yet. Open to one, though!" Or something along those lines. Just flatly saying "I've never had a girlfriend", well, that could make a person wonder why...and they'll think of all kinds of reasons. At your age, there is nothing wrong with not having had anything serious yet, just work on being a good, kind, interesting person, and you'll find yourself with a girlfriend faster than you expect.

I think you're going to find too many different answers here to get a general idea of what's interesting and what's not. It's really up to the person you're talking to. Here are some of my thoughts about this:

1) If a person has interests, than they have that many more conversational topics to talk about. So, yes - if you are into sports, or have a hobby, I'd like to hear about it.

2) By the same token, balance out talking about yourself by asking her about her own interests.

3) Someone else said this: always have steady eye-contact. It's polite, shows you're interested, and gives the impression you're a fairly confident and trustworthy guy. There is nothing ruder than some guy talking to me while painting the room with his eyes over my shoulder the entire time. Guys that do this have a total lack of class. Period.

4) Humor - well yes, this is important. If you are a little too nervous to be humorous when talking to a new girl, try to pretend she's your little sister or something, and tease her/joke around with her a bit. (Don't overdo it, though).

Be an interesting person and you'll have interesting things to talk about. If you never read, are glued to the television or Playstation all the time, chances are you're not going to be that great of a conversationalist.

WOW. You did everything you possibly could to push this potential gem away. Your friends' advice was terrible, and you should never have listened to it. You absolutely scared this guy off by confronting him about his intentions so early on in the relationship. In fact, it wasn't even a relationship yet.

Women make this mistake way too often. As soon as we "like" someone (or in most cases, start to feel infatuation), we have to know right then "where things stand." And the majority of the time, that attitude kills what could have been a very promising relationship. Here's why:

1) Guys do not want to feel controlled, owned, possessed - whatever you want to call it. At least any guy with some amount of backbone and dignity.

2) Asking where things stand after just a few dates smacks of desperation. Any normal person would take this as, why does she want to know already? We don't even know each other that well. Is she just looking to get a boyfriend? She must or she wouldn't be pushing this issue so fast.

3) It adds a heavy new angle to what before had been a joyful discovery phase.

I know what I have to say about this will probably be dismaying to you, but you seem like a basically together woman who is just sort of fumbling at the moment in the dating world, and I want you to be successful at it. The chances are, you and this guy won't be getting back together. His response to you was absolutely correct, and I would have done the same thing if I was him, and a guy put me on the spot like that so soon after knowing him. A month is a nanosecond in a relationship!

Going forward, assume its ok to date others - and that the guy your dating is seeing other people - until he asks you to be exclusive. On the other hand, you can ask him if he wants to be exclusive too - if he says yes, great. If he says no, than at least respect him for his honesty, and make the decision to keep seeing him or not. But don't ever say "where is this relationship going..." It's an uncomfortable question, one that's hard to answer unless you can see into the future, and basically puts the person being asked in an awkward position. If you want to be exclusive with them, just ask them if they want to be. No need to be indirect and nebulous about it by trying to find out if they're dating other people. Chances are, they ARE until they indicate they are interested in exclusivity.

Good luck - and try not to jump the gun so fast in the future. As you can see, there are consequences to that kind of attitude. Hopefully you'll look at this as a learning experience that taught you something very valuable to know, and not pine and long for this guy (at least not for too long!)

All I can say is I'm sorry my advice isn't what you wanted to hear. I understand what you mean about consistency - it's frustrating when someone isn't. But if you detest it so much, than have nothing else to do with her, and quit obsessing about not having the proper "respect" shown to you. I hope you don't take that kind of testiness with you in a real relationship, because frankly, this is a pretty small problem - in real relationships, much bigger issues come up, and you're gonna need to check your ego at the door to deal with them constructively.

The crack about a "female crusade" was uncalled for, by the way. I took time out of my day to answer your post, and even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear, you were pretty ungracious yourself by zinging an insult like that. Sounds like you have a little anger in general right now towards females, so I'll just chalk it up to that. You probably have a nice side somewhere.

The "friends" thing very rarely works out, especially when one of the exes wants to get back with the other. You're asking for more heartbreak, my friend.

It sounds like you only had one or two dates with her...so I don't think she owes you any kind of cut and dried explanation for why she doesn't want to go out again. I thought the general unspoken rule in dating was, if you don't hear from someone again after two calls placed to them and if you only went out on a few dates, the other person isn't obliged to give an explanation, and thereforeeee an awkward situation is avoided. If they don't call you back after a couple of calls - than take the hint. Don't keep calling and than get mad when they don't call back. They "told" you already in an indirect way they're not interested, with the intention of not wanting to hurt your feelings. What is she supposed to do, call you back specifically to say I don't want to go out on another date with you?

I don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like you're taking this rejection waaaay too personally. I'm sure you've blown off at least one person before in the past because you were too embarrassed to tell them that you weren't interested. If it happens after just a date or two, I don't see why anyone should be offended.

Eeeks. Things have taken a turn for the worse. I don't know what advice to give, because your situation reminds me of Rich's, sort of. (see his post "Here we go again, scared but confident"). He didn't like the advice I gave him, and so I'm reluctant to give you the same advice. Maybe you should read his post, do you really want to go through what he's dealing with? If you're in it for the long haul, than no one can talk you out of it, but be prepared for a long phase of frustrating, unrewarding longing & pining & angst. Good luck.

WHOA!!! GUYS - you are giving this kid some seriously messed up advice. Exactly what did this girl do wrong? She's always been friendly and polite, but does that mean she has to go out with him if she's not really interested? She owes him nothing, and to the poster who said she can burn in hell, dude, you have problems. Seek help. Your bitterness is scary, and you're still so young.

To the original poster, listen: you had a chance with her, things didn't work out, you shouldn't have kept calling her all the time afterwards. If someone is interested in you, you don't get their voicemail 99% of the time! You should have been able to figure this out in a week. And you also should have asked her to dance at the party if you really wanted to dance with her. If she said no, big deal, thank her anyway, tell her she looks lovely tonight, than move on to ask another girl. You need to develop some self-esteem here, and lose your fear of rejection. Everyone gets rejected, learn how to take it and get back in the game.

You also need to ditch your jerk friend. Hanging out with someone like that is not going to help you grow your self-esteem at all.

It sounds like she's not interested at this time. I wouldn't pursue it anymore if I were you, and I wouldn't hold a grudge against her either. People have the right to like or not like someone romantically, and she doesn't owe you anything.

American Dream, you did exactly the right thing. I'm not kidding, she's lucky you even gave her one more chance, because in my view, she and this guy more than crossed the line. If she slips up again, show her the door for good (but be a gentleman about it, just be firm). Kudos to you! It's good to know there are guys out there who can hold their own without being a jerk about it. You sound very healthy.

This is a GREAT topic, and one that I've actually been giving thought about over the last week.

The main purpose of monagomy seems to be to create stability in a family situation. But what if one doesn't have any kids, or any great desire to produce them?

Also, expecting someone to be monagomous can create feelings of jealousy and possessiveness - two terrible-feeling emotions. And if you think of it from a purely objective point of view - who the heck are we to think we own someone? Of course, from an emotional point of view, I can get pretty jealous myself, so I realize emotions play a more powerful role in this than intellectual reasoning.

Bottom line, I am afraid to commit myself to marriage and monogamy - the main reason being you hear all the time about the other partner straying, and than your dreams are shattered. Wouldn't it be better just to live a free and happy life, and try to move away from the whole monogomous type of relationship? But than on the other hand again, it does feel wonderful when you are loved by someone, and wanted on an exclusive basis.

It's just that passion usually doesn't last, and than the relationship can settle into the everyday mundane pettiness, which is deathly boring.

I think from an objective point of view, the world might be better off if we didn't pair off, but everyone was free to love who they wanted, and no one ever felt rejection, jealousy, or betrayal. But as the concept of couples & families has been around since the dawn of man, I can't see us moving away to a different type of societal structure anytime soon. Until maybe everyone realizes how overpopulated the world is, and people stop having kids.

That's a good question, and one I've often wondered myself. I think the best way to take things slow is to not have all your time available for him. So, try to fill up at least three nights a week that you're doing something else, so you're not waiting for that phone to ring. (Grrr, I hate waiting for the phone to ring - reminds me of a country song I heard once called "If The Phone Don't Ring, It's Me" )

If you are busy doing other things quite often, the relationship has no choice but to move at a slower pace.

Please - you can't generalize this problem by saying its another example of girl's cruelty. I'm female, and my first thought reading this was wow! this chick is odd. I'd ask her to give you some clarification on that, because it was the last thing you were expecting out of her mouth. She needs to explain that very strange comment.