Remember Me Enotalone? It's Danimal......

I had it all and I lost it AGAIN!!!! Yup, I was the success story back in March. I was against the "No Contact Rule", but have to now follow it. How ironic?

I don't know what happened to me, but I lost all of that confidence I re-acquired in myself, back in Feb-March. The confidence and persistance that won back her heart. I was the guy that gave her emotional fulfillment without asking anything of her. I was ambiguous and vague. I gave and retreated. She could never predict my next move. I used misdirection to lower her defenses and seduce her and was she hooked within weeks. She couldn't resist and all of you will remember my protests against the No Contact Rule back then and accomplished an act that many of you didn't think I could accomplish, but boy did I accomplish it successfully.

She came back to me back then as a result of that new found confidence. It was very appealing and she began to trust me again and her defenses were lowered with time, but I took it too far, for too long and pushed her away from me and ended up making her feel used, underappreciated, taken for granted, neglected (emotionally, sexually), left in the dark and plain lied to. This was not part of my plan. I forgot to give and then pull back. I just kept pulling back and she kept waiting for the emotional fulfillment to come back, but it never did and she was very lonely and unhappy and unloved at the end and finally left me, again!!!!!!!!

I remember so well what I had gone through when she initially ended it with me at the end of January and how hard I took it. I did the groveling for a week and then stopped all contact for 12 day and came back the beginning stages of a changed man and for the next 3 and a half weeks, I sustained that. I started calling once every few days, to once a day, to twice a day and I remember, there was never any talk about feelings. My grandmother was very ill back then and we talked about that. She never told me to truly leave her alone. She saw a change in me and we know the rest of the story. She eventually broke down and declared her true feelings for me, but I didn't (couldn't) keep it up with time and I either took it too far or regressed, until the very end, when I still had a chance to kick myself in the butt and wake up to who I had in my life, but she had enough (2 and a half weeks ago)

Okay, so, I tried to pursue her for a week and a half to no avail. Yes, I lost my job, yet again and this did not win her over at all, for it was the old Dan's pattern of losing touch with responsibility, etc... Anyways, once again, certain family members of mine were once again ill, but this time around, I didn't receive a warm and sympathetic ear, who was there to support me again, like the last time. During that week and a half, I demonstrated every type of feeling accross the rainbow and it all fell on deaf ears. Once again, I heard the same things I heard the last time: "My feelings are gone. I don't trust you. I no longer love you. I want to move on with my life, without you. Don't call me ever again. It hurts too much to love you. Nothing I do will ever be good enough for you. I deserve better. If you continue to contact me, I will get the police involved. There is nothing left........."

So, 1 week ago today, I stopped all contact. In the meantime I heard that she had a barbecue for her birthday, inviting all her friends, is once again applying to jobs everywhere in the States, has reconnected with the same guys she reconnected with the last time (including her ex), joined a single's chat line again, is going to the Caribbean's on vacation, alone and even talked bad about me to one of her friends and said that couldn't be happier with her life right now.....

I heard it all before. Look, the reality is she was seething, fed up, tired of getting hurt (fighting, crying, chasing me) and now she is where she was at 4 and a half months ago, but only further away than ever before and I still do love her. God do I love her Princess.

How the hell do I bring her back to me. How do I even attempt at opening that door, without her pulling out her machine gun and having her defenses come up all over again. I know what I did last time, but it's so much harder this time around.

I know that she was really excited about how I transformed myself, my life and had a new found attitude and confidence and light nature and just plain started respecting her more. We went at her pace and that was huge for her.

So now, I have consciously slowed down my own pace and have back the *beep* up and have not contacted her at all. The last time I didn't really stop contact, because I didn't want her to forget about me and because I was always present, she didn't have a real chance to get over me, but this time, I am leaving her alone and everything in life is a game and we are all players and I have to once again use my head, in order to get back to her heart.

Please, can any of you offer me some advice and let me know when and where I could go from here? I can guarantee you that me not contacting her for this long is something she did not expect. She expected me to continue chasing her, like the last time. She's leaving in 6 days for Cuba and I figure she'll be gone for a week. Should I make a move when she gets back and if so, what do you recommend I do?

Remember, I was once your inspiration Enotalone and helped out dozens of you and have the emails to prove it. I need your help now, please.

Thanks,

Danimal

Unfortunately I will welcome you back.

Hey that was quite the ride you took us on. Sadly we are hearing from you again. It is a tough game you played there. The whole pulling away, then giving, then pulling. Wow, I am tired just thinking about it.

Lets be honest here danimal, in the end , was all that really worth it? Think to yourself? Was it? Maybe it was for the time being. But in fact, I know there was a void this entire time. Sure, it was great to be back with her. But did you really have her. Yes she may have wanted you, she may have loved you. I am sad to say, that she loved the games , she loved the challenge of not knowing what direction you were going to take her. It is kinda like a rollar coaster ride, going over the hills, not knowing what turn will be next or how fast you will be going. Unfortunately, after a few minutes this can grow old, and in turn you want off.

I bet, while you two were together you wanted to pour your heart out to her. You wanted to hold her, be with her, tell her how much you missed her; but you couldnt, because if you did she may have pulled away. Stop kicking yourself for one. No regrets , remember that. You are who you are. You tried so hard to win her back, you gave it your all, but in turn you had to guard your heart. Was it worth it man. Holding back, suppressing the feelings you had for her. I cant answer that question.

The ball is fully in her court right know. Give her time. This game really only works once, after that, the only thing you have to go on, is the love you share. If she doesnt come back, then she is not the one.

Hang in there pal.

Yeah man,

I was one of the very few, including Beec, who did not support or condone the NCR and I proved to everyone that contact can be very beneficial, if used intelligently and that was the key. You could not let you emotions get to involved. You had to smarten up a bit, of which I did.

I'll have you know Michael, that much of what you just wrote me, has a lot of validity, however, I'll let you know, she desperately wanted me to let go with her and I got so caught up in holding back, that I forgot that she was becoming everything I ever wanted, yet I still refrained and still demanded things of her. She wasn't looking for the right opportunity for me to open up my heart and then the spell would have been broken. In fact, that's not what happened at all. I was locked away for the last couple of months and completely neglected her emotionally and she felt completely unloved and deceived. She wanted to make it work. Her passions were back, but I suppressed them man. I was scared and it was my fear that pushed away the woman who did truly love me for me, but cannot be with me now, because I projected all of my fears onto her and denied her of something that she wanted to receive and had in abundance to give. She does not want to forgive me now and it's killing me.

For the first time Michael, I am being forced to use the dreaded No Contact Rule.

Sorry to hear this....well, at least you showed it COULD work....but obviously eventually you have to stop pulling. It is really unfortunate though it ended this way, but at least you can say you tried.

I am trying to do right now similar to what you did (the first time!) - keeping in contact, building a strong friendship (in retrospect I think we rushed into relationship) showing him he can trust in me and my love, but being careful to NOT push him away and keeping my emotions a lot more closed up (though I know he knows how I feel as I still demonstrate it in other ways, and I layed it all out on the table when we broke up - though not begging or anything!) - while I spend lots of time with him, I let him INITIATE contact right now - it seems to make him feel more comfortable

I broke up with my ex almost a month ago now....and we are definitely not in "no contact"...it is a very strange situation right now, in fact we see each other more now than I think we ever did before and have a fantastic time now that there is "no pressure" of a relationship - go figure, sure it is ridiculous, but really, at the same time, it is awesome and we have a great time together (even will be spending weekend away this weekend for a mtn bike race out of town, and planning a trip in July). He admits to me he is stupid for being this way - because when we are together it is fantastic and like things are as always (even better!) but then...confusion since I don't really know what he is thinking!

Honestly, you came back at right time for me, because I just hear over and over how I should go no contact...but this situation just feels so different - I know he is not using me, or anything like that, and I know he is scared of losing me not for a backup, but for me as a person. He is a very very confused boy right now, but it seems as long as he does not feel pressure right now to commit, all is wonderful (he told a friend if it was like this before we never would of broken up...gack!).

I can see how no contact works for some people...but I really think it varies from relationship to relationship. In mine, the love is still there, the care for one another, the humour/laughter, he is adamant it is not me and has no negative/bad thoughts about me or us and can only remember positive, the affection/attraction. It is confusing....but right now, I don't think no contact is the way to go. Who knows.

Good luck to you Dan....again, sorry to hear about this...take care of yourself.

Dear Danimal77,

The reason that no contact is usually used is because the dumpee cannot control their emotions when they are in contact with their loved one. They let their heart guide them and overule their head.

But you managed to push and pull and not let her see your true feelings. Most people would not have a hope in hell of pulling this off.

You managed to do this Danimal, and so you must have a certain strength of character.

But do not be hard on youself for doing the wrong thing. You were only doing what you thought she wanted.

Put it this way:

When you were your true self she rejected you and dumped you.

When you played hard to get and treated her badly (by your own standards) she took you back again.

Hence you felt unable to be your true self again. You couldnt trust her with your true feelings or show her your vulnerable side or your love because based on the past, this would mean that she would trample all over your feelings.

You were too scared to let her break your heart again.

And you were so strong, too strong, and too disciplined to let your sensitive and vulnerable feelings out again. I bet you were hurting inside that she could not love you for who you really were.

You need to repair yourself danimal and I hate to say it but no contact is the answer. Maybe when you have repaired a bit (only can come with time and no contact in my view) then maybe you can explain to her a bit about how you were feeling:

You could tell her how hurt you were when you broke up and how you felt scared to show her your feelings again.

Let her go away, it is probably good for both of you. She will come back if she really loves you.

If not, it is time to leave it because you are causing yourself damage at the moment.

Danimal,

I think you shouldn't be too hard on yourself because you did your best to get your ex back. By what you say, I feel that your ex was attracted to the new confidence you demonstrated... but think... did you really felt that confident? once a friend told me that when you have unsolved issues about someone it is reflected in your bodylanguage... that is she might have noticed something wrong but could not figure what was it... to finally feel that you were not being sincere. When people hold feelings back, usually strong feelings, the partner can sense it... and believe me it can drive anyone crazy to be with someone who can not open themselves... mostly if they are showing so much confidence.

I think that there are some blanks about what really happened between both of you.... like why she wants a restraint order? were you aggressive?

were you to demanding? were there constant fighting?

Anyways, my feeling is that for now it is better to focus on improving and healing yourself. This means examining what went wrong and what may have lead to the break up at first. It may take a lot of time of meditating, but don't be hard on yourself, many of us may refrain our feelings on our fear of being hurt... but that doesn't make us bad people, it just makes us more human... and because we are human we make mistakes but can learn from them to become better people.

Give her some space for now and give yourselft space too for things to cool off and specially so that you can find more strenght to approach this situation with a different perspective

Wow,

It's great to get some women's perspectives on the issue. To answer your question, no, I was not violent with her.

Truthfully, I was always a man who wore my feelings on my sleeves and was pretty damn sensitive and very open. Too open for that matter.

I did a complete 180 and the change was undeniable. The conflict was, that she was still in love with the old Dan (sweet and sensitive), but was also drawn to the new me. She admired me and probably respected me a lot more, because I once again, as when I initially met her 2 years ago, started standing up for myself once again and started taking care of myself, which is something I hadn't done in a long time and how could she lean on me, when I wasn't stable within my self. Prior to, I offered no real emotional stability and perhaps even financial security, but with my new found confidence and new job, I was demonstrating to everyone (not just her), that I was making some serious changes in my life and had become very attractive, I guess.

Anyways, for the first month back, I was very affectionate and lovey dovy with her and a lot more playful and relaxed and then I started to take this new found confidence too far and became very detached and would not answer phone calls while I was at work and would not really confide in her anymore, like I used to, yet I would still be demanding, wanting more phone calls from her and emails as well. I become very closed and even in bed and that was not reminiscent of the old Dan, at all. I had changed a lot, at what cost, I don't know, but the point is, I pushed away the woman I love and today she will not give me the time of day and does not trust me and does not want to give me that chance again and wants to move on with her life, without me. As she said, it hurts her too much to love me and she doesn't feel like anything she does will ever be good enough for me and she thought I changed, but I couldn't keep it up.

That's where I stand. I know how I won back her heart before and it was done with a lot of patience, persistance and respecting her space and wishes at the time.

I have been without contact for one complete week now and the breakup was officially 2 and a half weeks ago. She is going to Cuba on vacation next Sunday, by herself and from what I heard is looking for jobs far away and has reconnected with old guy friends (ex's) and is happy now. I don't know if I truly believe that. She's done this before.

I do love her and do miss her and want her back in my life, but am now letting nature take it's course and taking a real break from her and mostly because I don't have a choice right now, but also because I need to use my head as well and reclaim my strength as well. She always told me that the way to her heart, was through her head.

It's good that you have detected what were the mistakes you made. I think breaking up is also hard for the dumper... your ex may just be wanting to fill all her time to stop thinking about the problems, something like a "quick escape".

Take your healing time and feel free to post whenever you need a helping hand

Tere,

With all that just said, we have broken up in the past, but I do feel that this last time, I won over her heart, perhaps under false pretenses. Sure, the love, chemistry, and feelings were present, but in order for it to be long lasting, I have to know myself through and through and not have to test it out while with her. I have to be natural and truthfully, I wasn't.

We were at our best, when we both just were, without trying or forcing anything.

I do miss her. I am taking this break and will let her go to Cuba and have her fun, whatever that may be. I need her to live without me, as much as I need to live without her as well, rather than being together, and not being 100% there.

She told me before she left, that love sometimes isn't enough. I'm tired of showing her my false self and being someone who I am not. I just want to be and that is something I haven't been in a looooooooooong time. I lost my true identity and have not been happy in myself and inevitably couldn't make her happy in the process.

As it stands, she doesn't want to hear or see me at all. Deep down I know that she must be hurting as well, even if she has a tough exterior and doesn't show it, as I didn't while with her towards the end.

Ladies, what's the way back to her heart? How much space should I take before I reapear in her life? I do miss her.

Danimal

Dear Danimal,

I think there is hope for you and your ex.

But she has to accept you for how you really are.

There is nothing wrong with being a man who is sweet and kind and generous. My boyfriend is all of those things and I love him to bits.

But I think sometimes you have to be a bit older and wiser to really appreciate those things in a man. My last boyfriend was a cheat and liar and after going through all of that heartache I really appreciate the morals of the man I am with now.

It is true that nobody likes someone who begs and crys and clings but on the other hand, you cannot be hard and tough or you will never let anyone into your life.

It is probably best to choose a medium road inbetween these two extremes.

I really don't blame you for how you reacted with your ex. Basically you lost trust in your ex. If you don't trust someone what do you have? nothing, because you can't open up or show your vulnerabilities to that person without fear of being abused.

If you do get back together then you will need to rebuild this trust on both sides to have a loving relationship.

I know you are hurting, probably twice as bad this time. Thinking of the what ifs etc. But just be good to yourself.

Im not sure if you should contact her or not. On the one hand im thinking no contact is the best for you Dan, because you must be pretty hurt. On the other hand maybe if you have been the arsehole you say you have been to her, then maybe something to show that you care might be in order. Somthing short and nonthreatening.

What do others think?

Kate,

I made all attempts to say I'm sorry for a week and a half. She knows that I lost my job again and can't respect me too much for that. She is not willing to be in my life in any capacity right now. I wish things we so cut and dry and she would come back tomorrow, but the truth is, she won't and I don't fully blame her. She doesn't want to put herself out there and get hurt either. It's easier for her to cut all ties with me, to lessen the pain. She probably assumed that I would go running after her this time around, but I stopped after a week and a half and have gone now over a week without contacting her, which are her wishes.

As I mentioned, let her go to Cuba and take this time to reflect on things as well. Let her have a fling for all I care now, or when she's over there in Cuba, by herself. Let her experience life without me, espepcially without me chasing her.

When I feel the time is right, I may reappear, but after some time has passed. She wants to be left alone to heal, well, fine. I've done more than I can in the apology department. She is not willing to be there for me now, even knowing certain family members of mine aren't that well either, well, I'll take care of myself in the process and let her do the same.

I have set a tentative date to contact her and that being perhaps the first week of July, or maybe later. I'm not going to ask her to re-enter into a relationship with me again, because first off, she won't and secondly, we shouldn't, before we know for certain how each other feels. I've heard through sources that she couldn't be happier right now with her life, now that she doesn't always have to please me and get hurt in the process, but I don't by that.

The truth will come out with time and we'll see where our hearts are at, after a significant amount of time has elapsed, where acting on impulse is no longer what predominates.

Danimal77,

I remember seeing your initial posts and daily updates of your "success" with your ex, and newfound confidance. At the time I really wanted to post somethig or email you and tell you that you were going to burn hard, but I dunno, I just knew that no matter what I said it would make no difference. You were too high on success. From what you wrote it sounded that you were so sure of yourself that nothing would have made you listen that the path you were walking was a very dangerous one. You let your confidence go to your head. it was so obvious. You seemed so sure of yourself. You were destined to fall. You made the classic mistake of drowning in your own power.

Did you really think that listening to a few other people's seduction techniques, or reading the Art of Seduction was going to turn you into Casanova overnight? Did you think that you could keep up the game you were playing? No my friend. In order to keep it up you would need to fail many times with many other women. That and that alone would teach you how to act accordingly. What you did not see is that all those who succeed with women and who draw women to them have an unshakable confidance that never changes and never contradicts what they are trying to portray onto their targets. What you did not see was that you were not ready to face a situation where your new found confidence would be tested and scrutinized. You never had the chance to learn how to deal with your own emotional weakness. All the time you had her back you were under a microscope to prove yourself in her eyes. Thats reality...thats your role as a man, that you will always be judged by a woman based on your action not words and what you can never forget is that if your actions contradict the picture you are trying to paint you are hosed.

In all these posts you have answered your own question, as to what happened, and what you can do now.

Let me explain....

It fell apart for 2 reasons.

1. You were inconsistent in your behivor and couldn't keep up the act.

2. You became overconfident thinking you were some great seducer/player/guy who had her wrapped aoround his finger only to discover she proved you wrong. i.e. you took her for granted.

you said...

"Prior to, I offered no real emotional stability and perhaps even financial security, but with my new found confidence and new job, I was demonstrating to everyone (not just her), that I was making some serious changes in my life and had become very attractive, I guess."

this is why she returned, and she would have stayed with you if you continued that behivor despite any adversity that popped up in the future. You reinvented yourself and in your ex's eyes you were a different person. You were strong, powerful, proactive, a go-getter. You spoke with confidence, and you showed it through and through. This is what she was attracted to. She found the new you intoxicating and something she never figured you would become. You surprised her with how you reacted to her breakup. You showed her that you were the man, that it didn't bother you, and that you were there for her, and that it was ok. You showed strength. You showed that you didn't need her, and that you wee not desperate (a major turn on for women). You projected control of your very being. That is what she was attracted to. It wasn't you, it was the power, and the feelings that made her "surrender" to you. A woman is in love with her feelings not the guy. This is why when you ask a woman to describe the perfect guy she can never give you an answer. She dosen't even know herself what that guy is. It can be just about anyone......and anyone who can create such intense feelings in her she will associate with love for that person. (this is something the nice guys always fail to understand). A woman is attrated to strength, confidence, and courage, its primal, and in her genes. She seeks out the strongest mates and those who demonstrate that they can dominate. The old you was weak. The new you was strong and he was a guy who projected confidence and control. He had his stuff together, and she thought that you figured "it" out and that you made plans, and wanted to work with her. She wanted strength so that she could completely surrender to you. She wanted you to lead, and succeed. You showed that initially and that is why she returned, but she started doubting you when at some point you probably lost you self discipline and control, and fell out of sync with the image of the guy you were trying to portray.

you mentioned that you lost your job again...you said,

"Okay, so, I tried to pursue her for a week and a half to no avail. Yes, I lost my job, yet again and this did not win her over at all, for it was the old Dan's pattern of losing touch with responsibility, etc... Anyways, once again, certain family members of mine were once again ill, but this time around, I didn't receive a warm and sympathetic ear, who was there to support me again, like the last time. During that week and a half, I demonstrated every type of feeling accross the rainbow and it all fell on deaf ears. "

This is where you have failed. You fell back into the old you. The old Dan was slowly coming back and she could sense it. It wasn't becasue you pushed her away, it wasn't because she thought that she could never live up to your expectations, it wasn't because you closed yourself off. It was because your new found confidence was not real. IT was illusion and everything was built on quicksand. It was not REAL CONFIDENCE build on a solid foundation of experience, but something you devised to win her back. You were just not able to keep up the new image of yourself. The old you was still behind the wheel.

I am sure in some ways your girl tested you to see how you would react, to see whether the changes were real. All women will constantly test, and re-evaluate their men. Just becasue you passed phase 1 does not mean you passed the test. The biggest challenge probably came when life itself decided to test your new confidence. Thats how it is...Did things start falling apart around you? how did you react to any difficulties? Did you act according to what you said to her? or did you wait? Did you become overconfident with your new found image? Did you really think it was going to be that simple?..that you could just implement some behivoral changes and whola she comes flocking back to you? No...its not that simple..It never is. Life will always challenge any BS that you say just to see whether you are serious or whether you are full of crap. That is how life usually turns out. If you say something you better back it up fully and completely.

At the bottom of this email look at rule of being a man #1....you were naive.....also look at rule #8. Everything has a price, and the price has to be paid up front by you to get what you want. What price did you pay to keep her?. What did you do to earn her respect after she came back? Did you act with strength and confidence? Did you provide direction? Did you make plans and follow up with them? Did you keep your word to her? Where you there for her as a man? Did you rely only on yourself when anything went wrong? Did you fix anything from your past in the last month or 2?

You lost your job, had family issues, and you went looking for sympathy, but you didn't find any. Looking for sympathy instead of drawing on your strength showed weakness in everyone's eyes. You didn't find any sympathy in your family or her or friends becasue they all expected the new "you"

to take care of business. ... You became the old you, emotional, and you lost control of yourself. You didn't pay the price of showing your girl that you could overcome any obstacle. You did not pay the price and showed her that you were the "man". You fell apart at least in her eyes as did you new confidence. What she was drawn to was the strength that you initially showed. What she saw was the old you returning, who, as you have so well put it "offered no real emotional stability and perhaps even financial security". That to a woman was antiseductive and it cast doubt in her mind against you, against you as a man. She became frightened and did the only thing she knew how to do...she ran.

Worse, you displayed emotions i.e. lack of self-control. You even pursued her in the end. You showed her that you could not live without her. Instead of showing her strength you showed her weakness.

Originally a few months back you were right, you don't have to do the no contact rule if, and only if you are able to reinvent yourself and keep it up. That is the key, and the hardest thing to achieve. The dumpee usually isn't emotinally stable or strong enough to keep his new act together, because he has not "lived it". Its just a show. All it takes is some circumstance and BAM you are back to your old pattern of behivor. You never had a chance to condition yourself long enough to keep up your new image. One mistake and the girl you are trying to impress will see right through it, and she saw through you. Where you failed was that you were not able to maintain your new confidence, you were not able to "live" it, to live the new life you created. That is hard to do. Old habits and emotions are hard to break. It takes some serious dedication to recreate yourself. At some point you stumbled and fell back into your old rutine whether emotionally, financially, or mentally.

Remember any seduction fails the moment the veil of illusion that one is trying to cast on a mark is pierced. The moment you display weakness you create doubt. The moment you create doubt the seduction ends. The moment you contradict in action what you are trying to project you are finished. All it takes is a seed, which will start to grow in the person's mind or heart and the whole foundation will fall.

You said, "I did a complete 180 and the change was undeniable. The conflict was, that she was still in love with the old Dan". WRONG. She was in love with the new Dan. The problem arouse when the old Dan resurfaced. She didn't like the old Dan who wasn't taking care of his life the way she thought you should have. The only thing she liked from the old Dan was the intimicy, and in her head taht should have been part of the new Dan. You were right when you mentioned that she wanted both. You delivered arrogance not confidence that is why you pushed her away.

You said,

"I was scared and it was my fear that pushed away the woman who did truly love me for me, but cannot be with me now, because I projected all of my fears onto her and denied her of something that she wanted to receive and had in abundance to give".

Here you touched on a good point of why it fell apart. You projected fear and desperation. You were arrogant and arrogance in itself is insecurity and fear. You had the stench of death around you and she picked up on it. Fear is what also drove her away from you. You no longer showed confidence when you were afreaid. You weer a scared little kitten not the confident guy you wanted her to see. Things just did not add up in her head. Its pretty simple really.

The no contact rule works for most people becasue it gives them the time and space to reflect on themselves, and give them a chance to rebuild themselves form the very ground up. The distance also erases the pain, and creates doubt, and fond memories of the dumpee in the ex's head. THe time alone allows you to learn from your mistakes, and create a new you that has more confidence that is "real" and not just an act. Distance allows you to learn to live for yourself where you can discover that you don't need a owman in your life, but you can choose to have one. There is a big difference. Right now you project that you "need" her in your life. You do not project that you "choose" her to be in your life.

you said,

"She told me before she left, that love sometimes isn't enough".

My ex said the same thing to me...and she was right. That is the typical girl excuse...it was only an excuse so she would not hurt your feelings....its not about love as you think it is. Love to you is something different then it was to her. To her Love is not just love but it was her "feelings' that came from your strength, power, confidence, and making her feel special. She wanted a man's man who ignited love in her heart, someone she could surrender to. She did surrender to you and you could not deliver what she seeked. Love alone isn't enough for a woman hence why nice guys never get any. A woman needs a protector, a man who can take care of himself, someone who dosne't need her but who chooses her (which makes her feel special), and someone who "deals with it" whenever something happens. Its all about attitude. Its whoever projects the "leader" mentality. She needed someone who ignites intensly strong feelings in her, which come from being with a strong man i.e. the bad boy/leader/confident guy. What she was trying to tell you was that you were not strong enough for her. She just could not be with someone like the old you, who broke down whenever adversity hit or someone who was scared, or not in control of his life. She could not be with someone who lost control of himself and let circumstances dictate his life or went chasing after the girl. She was afraid whether you started to act like it or not, that the new you was not "permanent". Something you did in the last month or 2 cast doubt in her mind. She doubted your ability to be strong and to take care of yourself. It wasn't about you being distant, or closed of or demanding, or not returning her love. It was about you keeping up and acting accordingly with the image you were trying to protray. Your actions (distance, games, loosing job, looking ofr sympathy) did not add up to the picture you wanted to paint (confident guy who has his stuff together and is not desperate or scared).

You tried to be someneone you were not yet ready to be. You became confident...then arrogant..then overconfident...maybe over arrogant?. At first she thought you were what she wanted all along. She fell for it the first time but soon she realized it was smoke and mirrors. You weren't complete. The best of the old you was missing from the new you, and the new you that was missing in the old was a jerk. You were 2 separate pieces. She wanted the same you she loved but with a new attitude, with goals, plans, ambition, strength, and courage. She gpt taken for a ride. She will not make the same mistake twice. All you can do now is make yourself scarce. Focus on yourself. LET HER GO. Let her go and live your own life. Become a man's man. Put the 2 pieces together. The list below shows some of the qualities or rules of a person who has the confidence and the personality of what she was expecting from you. This is not what you became. arrogance is not the same thing as confidence. There is a very fine line between the 2.

The real man with unshakable confidence...

1. Is not naive.

2. Dosen't indulge in magical thinking..i.e. love will fix it, or she is the "one".

3. Plans out projects and follows up, step by step.

4. Dosen't go at life alone, he gets coaching and support

5. Does not indulge in "one thing" thinking. He sees multiple solutions, and knows that one thing is not going to instantly solve all his porblems.

6. Does well with what he is given. He does not expect life to give him more before he does well with what he has been given already.

7. Is able to delay gratification.

8. Knows that everything has a price and is willing to pay that price for what he wants usually upfront.

9. He knows that the "war" is in his head...i.e. it about control.

10. is able to enjoy his life fully even in the face of adversity and hard work.

11. Is undaunted by life. (no fear or weakness in face of adversity).

12. Knows his weakness and compensates for them.

13. Has discipline

14. Cleans up messes from the past.

15. Has the ability to say "No"

16. IS able to be fierce, romantic, outrageous, and loving.

17. Is greateful for what he has in life and does not take it for granted.

18. Knows that "he" creates his life.

19. is grounded in reality.

20. Is humble, and never overconfident.

Your lack of discipline killed you, your lack of being a loving and romantic man killed you while keeping a firm grip on reality, your lack of compensating for your weakenesses killed you, your lack of planning (goals, or in case you lost your job), and your fear killed you. You just weren't able to keep up the image she was originally drawn to. That is alot of hard work. You took the easy way out and let your new found glory go to your head.

But most important of all was that.... You took it too far. You thought you had her, and that she was so in love with you that she would never leave. I still remember some of the posts you made in which you said she was crazy for you and talking about marriage. Dude, you listened to what she said, and did not look at what she did. You probably never even noticed her judging you, and you probably never even noticed where you weer heading. You thought you were the man and it blew up in your face. The rule of life is that the moment you take anything for granted, be it your girl, your job, your life, your health, or your money/success is right about the same time that you start to loose it. All the signs are usually right in front of a person's face, but he is usually too much into himself or into something else to ever see these signs until he has lost it and much time has passed when he can look back and say "man what was Ithinking?".

You jsut got a harsh wake up call my friend.

Learn from this. Learn to be humble, and not take anyone especially a woman who loves you for granted. Learn to see beyond the obvious. Learn to focus on you, and most of all learn the folly of being overconfident and thinking that you are in total control of any situation and that you can do what you want. Never let your success go to your head. You will always fall if you do.

Go spend some time on yourself to develop some of these very values that I mentioned above...and we are not talking about doing it by July..forget your tenative date...get her out of your head. Get a new job if you haven't already, make some plans, go out, and live you life without her. Stop thinking of pursuing her. Become the man through your actions and plans, and let her pursue you after you show her what you have achieved...not before.

you said "I know that she was really excited about how I transformed myself, my life and had a new found attitude and confidence and light nature and just plain started respecting her more. We went at her pace and that was huge for her."

This is what she wanted. She cared for you, and wanted you to succeed. It was probably very hard for her to let you go. There is still a chance if you want it, but that time is not now. It will be only when you become what she was originally excited to see, and only when its real.

if that didnt narrow it down i dont no wat till danimal mate, that was awsome digly, i just broke up with my girlfriend of 2 years last week and i thought i'd be alright to talk to her, i know i can talk to her with out showing emotions but i think after reading wat you just rote i might give it a little longer get my mind fully around things and back the way i used to think, your so right, thats wat girls need/want/disire, i lost it, along with being with being jelouse about everything and everyone, which was probly my biggest down side, confident people dont get jelouse. so i guess that was my problem right there. she goes away on saturday accross to sydney, so im going to make my self scarse this week then give her a ring when she gets back. anyways your a champ digly take it eazy fella's things will work out in the end no matter which way they go.

First off, I have to thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy email, with such quality and intelligent feedback. You got right through to me.

Having read what you just wrote, I know that you are absolutely right on every level.

Something very interesting happened to me in mid February, before having been introduced to our old friend "Beec" at the time and before having read "The Art of Seduction" and more so, "The 48 Laws of Power", by the same author. For the first time, I thought I would try something different that what everyone on Enototalone was preaching and that being "contact" with the ex, but not just contact for the sake of contact, but contact with a purpose. I decided to be someone who I had never been before and that being a man who would do what he wanted to do, without having to explain himself to no other man for his actions and in this case, to no other woman and that being her.

I called her up, after having taken about 12 days at the time, to myself, to reflect and be able to build up just enough confidence, but thinking back now, just enough restraint and air of detachment, to not break down, cave in and grovel, because I remember that first initial call. Her defenses were up immediately, expecting me to start balling (my old ways), so what she had done right off the bat, was hand up, however, the persistent and determined (although misguided) S.O.B. that I've always been (a lot more than many of the people who post here on Enotalone), called her right back. This time around, she did not hang up. She was curious, realizing most likely to herself that okay, he has not called me in almost 2 weeks, which is "very" unlike him. Lets's see what he has to say and so the testing of my character, fortitude and resiliance began and I passed the test with flying colors, as I mentioned, not having been introduced to any of the concepts at the time, but going on my own inner intuition and strength, to perhaps be the man that I knew I was capable of being, but never had the courage to step up to the plate and actually become, because of my insatiable fear, that I would be judged and lose in the end, but I thought to myself at the time, that I would go for broke and it worked and boy did it work. It was step one for me, in my process of throwing her off and making her look back on someone, who up until that point, she had every intention to discard.

Okay, she tested me that first initial call.She immediately said, "if you are calling to get me back, it won't work, because I've made up my mind." My answer at the time: " No, actually, I'm just callimg like that, because I was kind of thinking about you" (very vague: "kind of" and far from desperate). Her again: "Well, I've been moving on with my life and you should do the same thing. It didn't work out between us and I'm NEVER coming back to you". My answer: "Yeah, that's great to here and I am HAPPY for you that you are moving on. I am actually dating and I have no intention of us getting back together either." Okay, at this point, she didn't know where to go with this one (lol). She was so floored, that she was speechless. I told her about some of my reflections from the last 2 and a half weeks and she said that she was HAPPY for me and I could use all of that for the next "girl" who I meet. Once again, I said, "yeah, you're right." Again, she was floored. That wasn't a false illusion or lie I was projecting at the time. That was me. Just a lot more go for broke Dan, who wasn't so scared of saying the wrong thing, in fear of upsetting her, or more so, being "politically correct". Needless to say, I "told her" that I would like to speak to her later on that night, because she had to leave and she asked me for what reason and I said "because" (ambigious) and she said okay and sure enough, she called me up later on that night and "I" brushed her off, with an actual legitimate excuse. From that point forward, I was still scared and apprehensive, but a whole lot more bold. I stopped listening to everyone on Enotalone, realizing that many of the people on there were naive and repeating the same thing over and over again, scared to take action. They were playing the No Contact "Game", as I am now being forced to do as well, but playing it for all the wrong reasons, because they thought that their ex would magically just appear on day 37, or 42, or whatever, not realizing that during the 12 days I took apart from her, I was constantly scheming and thinking of ways and the day I made first contact, was the day the idea just hit me like a bolt of lightning.

Okay, so after that, we know what happened. I became more and more daring and bold and would call her very "sporadically", but more frequent as well, never asking anything of her and constantly "agreeing" with her and making her feel very validated and secure with time. Yes, she was very suspicious and as she told me back then, she was very suspicious, in a way like never before and I knew that was good, because I was "recreating myself" and it was fun learning to be something that wasn't too hard to be and something that most people in the world aren't aware of being and if they are, they aren't courageous enough to execute it.

So, my sporadic and ambiguous phone calls become more and more consistant, to the point that we were speaking on a daily basis, which didn't surprise me, because *beep* man, I was pretty damn interesting and I knew it and if I knew it, then sure enough, so would she. Yes, my grandmother was ill and I thought at the time, that was a great misdirection tactic, that sealed the deal and won over her support, but she also used it as an excuse to get to know the "new" me. The man who acquired a new job, with new responsibilities and a new attitude, who was dating other women and didn't really ask anything of her, other than her time, when we spoke on the phone. I would hint at wanting more, but I never let that get to far.

When I finally had the courage that one day in Mid March to show up at her work and tell her that I would like to take her out someplace the old Dan never would have even thought of taking her and I wasn't taking no for an answer, she accepted, graciously, I might add.

One date lead to a second and she was already hooked and I showed a calmness to me and a great sense of humour, yet a detached front and a very appealing presense. Believe it or not, I had become mysterious again and intruiging and exciting and she wanted to "possess" me.

At this point I was deeply involved with "Beec" and had read both books by Robert Greene and knew exactly what I was doing. She had proclaimed her undying love for me and had even told me for the first time ever, that she would "die for me".

I remained calm and cool and funny and a lot more arrogant for at least a month and I got away with a lot. When she would speak up to me, I would put her in her place and she would become like a little insecure girl, who needed her Daddy's approval (that being me of course). I had never seen her that emotional and needy in the 2 years I had been with her. Yes, it went to my head and I cut out the fun loving and playful Dan and sexual as well and became very tough with her and cut-throat. She did not want to disapoint me. I started avoiding her phone calls. I would cancell plans with her. I even began seeing girls behind her back (something the old Dan would never have ever done) and I became more and more closed off from her, offering her no more emotional and sexual fulfillment at all. This lasted until mid May where she had begun to demonstrate her unhappiness. She would complain of this distance I was creating and she began to change. She would become more moody and *beep* and attempted at regaining her lost control and she had begun to withdraw herself, so I as a result, started to lose focus and became a wee bit more insecure and began to chase her a bit and then more and more and my work was suffering and for the first time in months, I was starting to whine again and just became weaker, while still having my confident moments, but they had become more the exception than the rule. Eventually, she had become completely unhappy and withdrawing fast and I started to really run after her when I heard things like, "you're taking me for granted and don't appreciate anything I do for you and nothing I do is good enough and you what, I don't care anymore. I want to stop trying with you Dan. I'm tired of getting hurt and crying all the time. I've never felt this alone and unloved. You've changed and you've become innaccesible to me and I don't know how I feel about you anymore and I fear that their is nothing left and I just don't have feelings for you anymore and I just WANT TO BE ALONE".

BAMM, I instantly caved in and became someone who almost completely, if not fully, resembled the old Dan, with my old patterns that point. At tat point, I had been complaining about my work suffering. The same work I had complete "control" over. The morning she wrote me "the letter" while I was at work, I was already an emotional basket case. She ended it in the letter and looking back, I could have and should have reacted differently, but no, 19 days ago, after having read it, I left work with barely a reason to, putting my job on the line and went staright to her house. She is 27, but still lives with her parents, who do not "approve of me" and I rand the bell. She answered the door and I could tell that she couldn't even look me in the eyes, because what she saw was weakness and desperation and a whole lot of tears on my part. Her mom had to do the talking for her and the painter had called the cops, saying that there was an intruder. She left the seen and left me to have to face her mom and the humiliation was intense. It's a seen that the Dan from only 2-3 months prior, would not have gotten himself involved in. The cops came. Asked me nicely to leave. I was crying and pathetic. I left. I proceeded to callher on her cell repeatedly, until she picked up, letting me know of her location, but also telling me to leave her alone and she doesn't want to ever speak to me again and so I called back, "trying" to act tough and tell her off in her voice mail and then calling back again and he answering and calling me a piece of *beep* and I should go to hell and so, I panicked once again and acted on impulse and went immediately to the place she said she was and she wasn't there and then I called her again on her cell and was hysterical, begging her to see me, so that I could have my closure, and she said fine, like she was doing me a "favor", knowing fully well my intention of balling like a baby and trying to beg her and convince her to stay with me, not be confident enough like before, that when she told me that she wants to leave and me saying, fine, leave, never stopping her, only making her want to not leave in the process.

Anyways, that Thursday was an ugly scene. I begged and cried at the mall and chased her to her car. She had to physically shove, telling me how pathetic I had become and to leave her alone. She did me a favor of driving me to a subway. At that point I was incoherent and nothing more than a little scared boy, who she was disgusted by. I got home and immediately called her on her cell, telling her off and attempting at being tough again and just ended up sounding desperate in the process. I said some awful stuff. Really mean and uncalled for, tearing her apart. This enticed one call back on her part, telling me that I was a piece of *beep*. At that point, I went on for a week and a half attempting everything to win her back, through emails and phone calls. Letting her know that I lost her job and so and so was vert sick in the hospital and even had my best friend and sister email her, trying to make her feel bad for me. Nothing worked, obviously.

What I got back as feedback this time, was the same as last time, just a lot more definitive I suppose. She said that she didn't want me to ever contact her again, for if I did, she would get the cops after me. She was sorry that I have all this tragedy in my life right now, but she is not there for me and kept on repeating how she doesn't love me anymore and does not miss me (no *beep* right?) and to finally leave her alone and let her move on with her life, without me and she admires my determination and persistance, but cannot understand how I do not listen to her no's and have no respect for her in the process, with no boundaries at all. She said that if she feels like calling me in 2 months, for whatever reason, than it will be up to her, not me at that point and right now, she cannot and does not want to offer me anything, even friendship or support and that this time is very different from the last. At one point, A little part of the new Dan resurfaced and had this amazing speach, proclaiming all these wonderful things, telling her that I understood and I don't even want to be in a relationship with her either and just wanted to reach out because I care and we'll see what happens and I thought that I saw a glimmer of her considering it, thinking that I was taking charge again, but realizing what I was reduced to in the last littlw while and so she woke up and said this doesn't chnage my mind and that was it.

So, here I am. I have not made a single call to her since last Monday (8 whole day). My record being 12. I do have access to her email accounts, and she is not aware of this. I know for a fact, like the last time, she has reconnected with some guys she met up with the last time she left me, including her ex. She has signed up to a single chat line. She is applying all over the States for a job. Threw a birthday barbecue for herself last weekend, inviting all her friends. IS going to Cuba this coming weekend, alone and is so excited and couldn't be happier to get rid of "Pyscho Man", that being me.

Okay, as far back as I had regressed, I have not gone back completely, because I am very aware of it all. I am so much stronger than the last time she ended it with me. I had a major setback, but still have a desire like no other to succeed. I believe in life that nothing is possible and you can get anything your heart desires, as long as you can envision it and take the necessary steps to make it happen and when I have one goal, I put everything into achieving it and nothing can deter or distract me and very few people can fight of my charm, when I believe in words I speak and back it up with "Action" as you put it.

I love her and I want her back. I have no *beep* clue how to go about doing it though. I have amazed myself by not contacting her for the last 8 days, proving not only to her, that I can and am "Respecting" her right now, but also to myself that I can step back and evaluate the situation. Nothing is ever too late and you can recreate yourself a million times over. I've done it with many people, but never attempted with an ex, more than once. We have a deep connection and chemistry that is very apparent when we are together, but she fell in love with me, because I awakened her mind and released her heart from the start. I demonstrated patience, kindness, understanding, support, intellingence, responsibility, maturity, experience, and an all out determination to succeed at any cost and if I couldn't find a way, I would make one. Attaining my goal was never an obstacle. Sustaning it has always been.

I have left her alone, but I guarantee you, that every day that passes and she finds things to do, to fill her time, she is thinking about me and who I was and what I became and what is becoming of me now, not haingheard anything from me. "Did I give up?" "Dan doesn't give up?" "What's he up to?" She's probably still expecting me to come and get her and make her change her mind and is ready to put up her defenses. I know she still loves me. I know that I awakened something in her, that no man ever has, but where do I go from here? I thought that with time, she would forget about me and compleyely get over me, but more and more, I believe that perhaps, time is the key and this space that I am creating right now, even though she requested, or more so demanded it, is not something she expected me to follow through with and this may be key. I do believe that some powerful can come of this and I do believe that it's never too late. Once you hold the key to a woman's heart, you have to sometimes use your head, or more so talk to their head, to get though to their heart. I have not fully given up on hope, but I am not sure how to approach it this time around, but I can assure you, I am not just sitting back, like most of the people on Enotalone are doing and waiting for something to happen. I am going to make something happen.

I love her and want to be that man she needs and I know that deep down I am. She fell in love with me for a reason and in almost 2 years, kept coming back to me for a reason. This time, I have to make it real and make it last, but how do I get my foot back in the door, when she is too scared, or too smart to let me in?

I think that there is some validity to both the No contact and contact approaches...there should be a mix of the two...

Where I think you went wrong...you need to take time (not 12 days) to actually change those things that caused problems within yourself...You can build up a facade in an hour, but what will you do when it all burns down? You spoke of your new found confidence, but you never let it become a part of you...it was a mask that you wore and when the point came to take the mask off it all fell apart again...

there is no way anyone can put up a wall of confidence that isn't built on a sound foundation and expect to go through life with it...it needs to be built over time...

No matter what you say you never had your ex back...she became attracted to you facade...and when the real danimal showed up she realized her mistake...

There is a point at which, people need to realize that sometimes people just aren't in love with the person you are and you can't change that...

If she was in love with the real you all you would have had to do would be to control your emotions (i.e. not beggin groveling, ect.) and she would have seen the real you and gone with it...

She obviously doesn't love you, sorry, but twice she has left you....this time threatening to call the police if you call her again...she isn't testing you no matter what you tell yourself...she's trying to move on.

Until you can be with her, as yourself not the "new confident dan" which is a lie you will never really be with her...why would you want to have to go through life lying about who you are?

Beec gave me a lot of advice, he's a very bright individual...but you took his plans too far...you played games too long, you lost the game because of that...you over analysed your opponent, you over played the game...

If you think of a sports analogy...the best professional athletes aren't the ones who think, they just do...simple, quick, smooth...A little juke to the left to get past the goalie....a quick hip movement to throw off the linebacker...When you start trying to do spins and straight arms, you'll end up losing the ball and the game...

Danimal...I'm sorry, I truly am, but it is done...you need at least six months of no contact...not to win her back but to get back your self respect, your real confidence, your career, your life...

She wants to move on, she's happy, if you love her you will let her be happy and leave her alone, for good...

dikaia880 said:

"There is a point at which, people need to realize that sometimes people just aren't in love with the person you are and you can't change that...

If she was in love with the real you all you would have had to do would be to control your emotions (i.e. not beggin groveling, ect.) and she would have seen the real you and gone with it...

She obviously doesn't love you, sorry, but twice she has left you....this time threatening to call the police if you call her again...she isn't testing you no matter what you tell yourself...she's trying to move on.

Until you can be with her, as yourself not the "new confident dan" which is a lie you will never really be with her...why would you want to have to go through life lying about who you are?"

I don't disagree with you on this point. If I was in love with her, would I have been avoiding her calls and cancelling plans with her for like 2-3 months, constantly and leaving her there, questioning herself, to where she went wrong and constantly feeling sad. The fact is, I was neglecting her and all that she did for me, I was not returning it at all, yet I demanded more from me. I hurt her.

Someone won't leave you necessarily because they don't love you. If there is more hurt and pain than there is pleasure and if there is more give than there is take, then it's no longer right. I played with her emotions like a roller coaster and played hard to get, for the sake of strengthening my hold on her and no longer to make the love or the connection between us grow stronger. I stopped all forms of communication at times and would no longer open up to her. Buddy, revealing all of this to her did not endear me to her anymore. She felt used and taken for granted and was tired of not being appreciated, so she left. Yes, I was playing a game, but that doesn't change anything. She fell in love with me and stuck by me for almost 2 years because she loved me and we went through a lot of tough times. She's had enough of crying and hurting and fighting and is "HAPPY" that is over. I can guarantee you that she is not happy that we are not together.

I am letting her live her life and I am living mine, trying to solidify what I had started to do initially and balance it out. I have not given up faith or hope, because you can make anything come true. Yes, I got her back. We spent time together and it was real. When I was most open with her, she was most happiest during those times. When I would laugh, so would she. When I avoided her and demanded things and held back, she was miserable and the damage was done. Nothing I say or do, at least up until 8 days ago, went very far with her and I understand why. She doesn't want to put her heart out there again and be played. She didn't only leave me twice. I played her twice. Which is worth? Hey, I'm not on her side. I'm stepping back from the situation as much as possible, seeing how I can repair myself in the process and in turn repair a love that was there.

She said she was happy the last time around, when she left me. Apparently she wasn't. We say a lot of stuff to disguise the hurt, don't we?

Ladies, what's the way back to her heart? How much space should I take before I reapear in her life? I do miss her.

There is one saying that goes "There are not happy couples... but two happy people that form a couple" With this I mean to tell you that, though you will miss your ex during NC... you need to focus on getting yourself back to who you were (and improved!)

Break-ups leave us feeling insecure, before getting to get her heart back you need to give yourself attention to mend mistakes done in the past.

I would recommend you to read "Bonds that set us free" and "Women are for venus and men from mars"... the first book really helped me on finding truth about myself and think that may be helpful to you too... if you can't find it let me know I could download it.

The other I think offers valuable insight regarding the differences among men and women... needs and communication.

Lastly, it could be a good idea that you work on your self-esteem... you have value and its good to be with a person that is not afraid to be themselves... be confortable to be you, you don't need to be someone you're not... just take your attributes and portray them to the highest achievement.

It is true that Love is not always enough...I see it with my ex...the pain of long distance and me not wanting to talk on the phone as much as she (I don't think I could ever have driven there enough, or talked on the phone enough LOL) was too much...she missed me too much...She was sorry she hurt me, but she hurt too...

I guess theres a lot of uncertainties for everyone, those of us here, the ones we talk about and love...But what is certain is that God has plans and what happens happens for a reason...

I hope my post didn't come off harsh, it wasn't meant to be...

What I was getting at is this...you two may end up together...some talk of giving up hope...I don't think one should ever give up hope...but we do need to, at some point, stop trying....start building ourselves up, our confidences, so that when the time comes to find someone else our confidence is not merely a wall on a hollywood sound stage showing a building, but an actual building, one you can go in, live in, and trust in...

I suggest no contact for you, as a way to heal...for her to heal...somepoint in the future when you both have gotten over each other maybe you'd be able to try again without the fears that now would hold both of you back...

Getting over someone, in my mind, does not mean the feelings are gone, but the pain, the longing, the fear, the anxiety...thats all gone and when it is you are over someone...it takes a long time...I'm going on 5 and a half months and I'm not over my ex...because we were in contact up until a month or two ago...

Get your life on track again...be the person your tried to show (the facade) let that become a part of you...and when the time is right (a long healing period must pass) maybe you could call to say hi...but don't even think about it for a long time...

Best of Luck...maybe we can all learn from your experiences...thank you...

I know this may sound bad, but I am not giving up. The fact that I have made no attempt at reaching out to her in the last 8 days, says something, but it doesn't say enough. I know fully well that she is going on vacation to Cuba alone and could meet somebody there. I know she is applying to jobs out of State. I know she is on a single's chat line and has reconnected with her ex. To what degree, I don't know? The point is, she did all of this, with exception to going away on vacation to an island, alone, the last time around.

She is trying to keep as busy as possible and distract herself. I can't fully, if at all, read her mind and know her true intentions, even though I still have access to her email accounts, of which she doesn't know that I do, but I can read my own and know what I have to do for myself.

I got a call from one of the employers I interviewed with last week and I just got the job. I make things happen, when I can envision it. When I am confident and believe in what I speak and follow through with it, I make things happen. I made it happen before, when no one else thought I could, or more importantly, should. Yes, I like to vent what I am feeling, but I always end up doing at the end of the day, what makes me happy.

I do miss her a lot and I could only wonder how happy she really is, now that we are apart. Yes, there is no more fighting and no more confusion and hurt and no more games and no more criticisms, but there is also no more Dan, who is there to listen and support her and hold her at the end of the day and be sweet and have fun with. I don't care how happy she is right now that she is single and living it up. No one wants to be alone, because at the end of the night, she could be talking or even seeing other guys, but they can't and most likely are not taking off where I left off.

I WILL reappear again, stronger than ever, having just got a new job. I will physically get in shape and psyche myself up, not for a fall, because I know just how hard it is to fight, when you are going against the grain, but as I've always preached, nothing in life that is worthwhile comes easy and without some kind of fight. She doesn't know what I'm thinking now either. I will become that man she fell in love with, 100%. I will become me.

I think your past love and into obsessed...She's already said she'd call the police...what will you tell them? "Officer, I know she says to leave her alone, but she doesn't mean it..." they'll love that...

You absolutely Positively need a lot of time away from this to get yourself to where you can be in a relationship with her...and this obsession that "she still must love me" is not helping you in anyway, its only hurting you...before there is even a possibility of you two you need to do things for yourself...become stable in you new job and in your life...

Best of luck to you, but please give it at least six months...

Look man, I know that to you this comes accross as an obsession. The fact is, if I was that obsessed, I would be in jail now and I am not. I have left her alone. You don't fully know all the details of my past with her. It is very complex and I really can't divulge all of it on here.

I am not going to have any conversation with the cops. I won't let it get to that extent. Based on her past actions, which are just as predictable as the ones I demostrated to her as, she "ALWAYS" reacted in the same way after having left me and this is officially the 3rd time, not second. All for different reasons.

Beec knows everything and he doesn't believe that it is impossible to get her back, but he does believe that I have to play the perfect "game" if you will, without it being a game this time around. It's about being real, but I do realize that me being real now, is me being weak and falling apart, just thinking about her. thereforeeee, I cannot approach her in this state. You have to enter into an action with boldness and have no doubt and today I have very little boldness and confidence. It most certainly taken its toll on me as well and I am a little bruised and battered as a result.

The Dan that was on here in February and March didn't only talk. I believed in what I preached and I did something about it. I did something about me. Today, I have lost hope and have lost my inner strength. The strength I had before I ever met her. The days where I would do things for Dan, without needing or relying on her support.

I turned something real into something fake and fabricated and she smelled it a mile away. I wasn't giving 100% of my heart to her. It's not that I didn't trust her. I didn't trust me. I have to change that. I lived out a self-fulfilling prophecy and I "MADE" it all fall apart. I don't know about 2 days, a month and a half, or 6 months. I don't live my life like that. I have been forced to slow down now though and have been doing the hardest thing of all and that is not wanting to reach out for her, because I know that she's not there for me. She can't miss what she doesn't know will be there anymore, on a consistant basis.

I don't know if I'll end up with her in the future. My track record showed that I can always get her back, but I couldn't keep her, because I couldn't keep me. Who do I miss more at this point? That's the big question.

I've done a lot of reflection and have gotten a lot of advice, by a lot of you people and everyone here tells me to just be myself, but at this point, I'm not even sure who that really is. I guess it's a lack of confidence in myself and she realized that I'm no good to anyone, until I'm good to myself. That's my starting point.

DiglyD, that was an awesome post that should be stickied for those who think that they will gain their EX back by being something they're not. Dude, you hit the nail on the head. We've all thought of trying the mind tricks on our EX's to win them back, but oddly enough, the only cases that seem to work (and I'm an optimist since I've seen people have rings thrown at them and then want back with the EX at a later date) are when the dumpee gains that valuable insight that they didn't need the EX all along, that the EX comes back if they do at all. I believe, its that very realization that probably leads the dumper to leave in the first place in many cases. I know its hard to do, I'm going through it, but DiglyD provides a very cogent synopsis of why trying to fake it doesn't work over the long haul. If you don't work out those critical issues, either through talking after NC, etc...then you're doomed to repeat them. And as dikia mentioned, you have to understand that many times (speaking of men here) a woman is in love with who she EXPECTS you to be, her 'vision' of you if you will. That's not what us men like to hear, but its true. I mean, your case danimal is classic whereby when you tried to be someone that she 'EXPECTED' she levitated toward you like a magic carpet. However, that WASN'T YOU! That Casanove bit is non-sense...Don't think those guys don't get their hearts broken and many of them never achieved sustained love, as you found out in your emulation of that strategy. MRS. Right, not MRS. Right Now, has to love you for who you are and that's a beautiful thing when it happens. Then you don't have to act and your partner loves you as much for your strengths as they do for your weaknesses. Took me 3 months to realize this very thing, and I hadn't realized it until my somewhat dated break-up. The begging, pleading, deception, doesn't work, especially with women. You must let them come to you (I know its hard and some never will, so be it, it wasn't meant ot be, but many will). And when they do you have to be upfront with them so that they decide to go on board under their own volition. You have to be realistic. If you can't meet one of them be up front and say listen, if we decide to do this, I can't give you X, Y, and Z. I'm sorry that's just not who I am. If you need to find someone else, I understand. Funny thing is, women think that some other guy will have, X, Y, and Z, when in actuality it may be their own issues that are really at odds, and not even attribute X, Y, and Z. And they'll lose alot of good men that way. Its about compromise, but if the person has unrealistic expectations about you, then they are NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU...THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH THEIR PROTOTYPE OF YOU...TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS...

And please, DiglyD's post in this thread is a MUST READ for men in the break-up phase thinking they will trick a woman into taking them back. Save your energy and build up a version of you that all women will want, not merely your Ex. Then you decide, even as the dumpee, if you want to give them another shot...Odd how it works, but you must grow strong for yourself before anyone else. And when you do, you can even let a person go knowing in your heart you'll be fine whether they stay or go....

KIP

Kipster,

I have to reply to this. I love the fact that I am now the example for what not to aspire to. In all fairness man, I did not trick my ex to come back to me. You don't think I wasn't enjoying all the things that were coming my way, as being a much more positive person, of which I evidently wasn't, prior to that is.

Man, she fell in love with me at first. I never forced her to love me, or stay with me. She stayed with me for as long as she did, but I guess, she realized at the end, that I wasn't truly happy with who I was and man, I don't expect anyone to stick around knowing I think so little about myself. I don't even want to be around me when I'm feeling this way. It was not her responsibility to stick around, realizing that she was holding onto someone who was falling apart right in front of her. I had become needy and I don't blame her for leaving me. I should have been the man and left her, knowing that what I had to offer her at the time wasn't fair to her.

No woman will stay with a man in the long run, if you do not possess a real sense of emotional stability and confidence within yourself. Her and I played that game for almost 2 years and it took it's toll on her, evidently.

The man she came back to wasn't false. I was a work in progress, realizing that I possessed the ability to acquire the confidence to achieve what I set out to, but it was too new to me and I couldn't sustain it and she saw it and I fall apart right in front of her eyes and she wasn't prepared to go through that entire struggle again with me, so she bailed, to save her own ass and I must save my own.

The fact is, is that there is love there, but until I can take care of myself and finally and truly realize that I don't need her to be happy, which I saw glimpses of in myself, but couldn't have kept it up, because it all moved to fast. I should have taken months away from her and come back a lot more secure with myself with something real to offer, instead of good intentions.

I do believe in myself and I know that nothing is too late. I am fighting for me this time around and I don't know what the future holds man, but I do know that when you can't find a way, you make one. It's all about proactivity and making things happen, but it has to start from you first and it has to last. I don't want to offer her fear and insecurity and instability. She deserves more than that. She deserved all of me, but I wasn't able to offer her all of that. At least not now. Baby steps, but that can only be done, while away from her. That's the only way.

Danimal...

What you just wrote was an amazing post.... I think you should re-read it and keep it for yourself.

I don't think anyone is on here trying to make you out to be the example of what not to do....

I think that you probably did all the right things, but as you are realizing yourself, maybe you weren't ready to do them and you started too soon.

See this all comes back to the old NC debate. Do we do it for ourselves, or do it for our EXes? I think in the end it is a combo of both. Your strategy for getting your EX back was nearly flawless... everything you did to get her back was executed perfectly. The only problem was that b/c you skipped past NC, you hadn't given enough time to yourself to truly heal and grow. Maybe that is why it was difficult to truly sustain what you were giving to her, or more importantly, maybe that is why you couldn't turn off the game when it was important that you become genuine with her again...

I think we all know quite early what we could do to maximize the chances of winning our exes back. The problem is that usually we don't have the internal strength to do it right (without breaking down or over-reacting to their repeated rejections)... or if we do have that strength to push past those rejections, it is because we've "invented" an unrealistic version of the self (as you did), that is unable to truly feel the impact of our EXes injury toward us, and thereforeeee is unable to fully love (yourself or our ex).

You hadn't really healed, and were a "work in progress", so you couldn't totally give freely of yourself.

It's a fine line, but I think your strategy of starting over for yourself is the best one for now. Use the time for growth and let her come to you.

All the best Dan

Now your talking Danimal...you have the right mind set and the right understanding of NC...I like you didn't believe NC at first (not real sure I do now really) what I do know is that as much as I want to talk to my ex, it'll probably be awkward due to both of our insecurities...so I'd rather have her think of the good conversations from the past than the bad ones from now...Your ex is thinking of you and as time goes on the good memories stay strong while the weak ones deminish...give it time...

You mentioned your suit of armor...The suit works good to get through the initial walls, we all need that suit to get through what for many of us, will be the hardest times in our lifes...but when the time come to take off that suit what matters in the end is that we have become strong under the suit...

You put your suit on right away and when the time came to take it off and show the ex that you don't need it you came out skinny and weak...

Put on some pounds so to speak so the next time you come out of the suit of armor your strong and ready to do whatever it takes...

Best of luck...