I'm back in the house, but a lot of work to do

[bacci]

No, I think that you're on the right track. She is observing you and even when you think it doesn't registered it does. Do as lostloveinLA suggests about letting her set the pace, it will feel like a long hard wait til that kiss comes, but if you keep this up I'm pretty confident it'll come, oh and when it comes, just take hwat is being offered don't push for too much too soon. Hang in there, its all going great.Do not for a minute entertain the thought of leaving the home or giving up, re-read your old posts, you said you were in for the long run. Really, all these friendly good times are very healing, even if its not everything you would like to have but its in the right direction, I see it as a process of reconciliation, and its a process, I'm still learning about the stages.

B

[Hootz]

Hi B,

My main concern is that both of her closest friends have loveless marriages (by their own choice), with doormat husbands, and I'm worried that she is wanting to have something similar, which I really don't want!! So if this is the "norm", I don't want it, she may be able to live without love, but I can't.....

[LostLoveinLosAngeles]

Hootz to be honest. I dont think this is a good time to be living together. It only makes the situation worth. I remember when she would want to spend the night over and I was like great we are going to have sex! Then it was like she just wanted me to hold her while she sleeps. I cannot imagine how rejected you must feel living with it everyday. You have to be even stronger my man. It will come. Do you remember when you were separated how you just prayed that you could have slept next to her? Well you have it but you are complaining. Give it some time and if its not up to your standards then you definitely need to leave. Trust me we sound almost like the same people.

I personally think you are way to jealous of her friends. You sound very possessive. When you were broken up she found haven in those people and now you want her to just remove that element? Face the facts man, she found another person to confide in while you were away. That is a good thing. Man up and realize that if you are doing your best to make this work out that even if doesn't you gave it your all.

I am not saying that this is right what she is doing. But because they broke up with you sometimes I think the dumpers feel that they can be distant whenever they choose but they don't realize the sparks of insecurity we dumpees still have. You are exuberating insecurity you need to go with the flow. Give you self a realistic date and if you don't like it move on

[Hootz]

She wants to go back to the beginning, so thinking back to the beginning.... we kissed on our first date (went out for dinner for our anniversary (1st date)), we didn't kiss last night, we had sex for the first time after about a month of dating, so I'm using those as a guide line, should I, or are these guidelines way out, seeing as our situation is different now....? When do I know tat she does/doesn't want a loveless marriage, just wants a flatmate to help raise the kids?

[LostLoveinLosAngeles]

Man Hootz you just wont know! I think that is something you have to decide. Either you keep this going or give it up. I choose to stay with it. But I can tell you I get mixed results my man. I am not happy because I want love all the time just like you do. So really we both need to decided when enough is enough.

[bacci]

I don't think she wants a doormate, who does?

she said she wants things to be like the beginning, this doesn't mean" we'll rehearse everything the way we did before", but more likely that she wants to feel as close as she felt then, she does want to get intimate, but this doesn't happen overnight, she needs to lower her defenses and allow herself to be vulnerable, one day at a time. Give yourself more time, you always have the option to leave if this doesn't work out, but form what I've read, you honestly want to give this a try, so hang in there, it will get better or it will become clear that this is not what you want.

Good luck,

B

[Hootz]

Thanks B,

 

I asked her this morning, if when she said to me that she didn't feel right kissing me, was that "until further notice?", or does she "want it to be the norm?", or is she "waiting for me?", or "am I waiting for her?". She replied, it's definitely notthe norm, I just need to wait for her,is that alright?, and I said, that's fine just let me know when you're ready.... yay for me!! Can't wai till I get the call, not going to let her know that I'm hanging out though.... heh heh

[bacci]

Ok, so I am reading her well. When we hurt we close up to intimacy and it takes slow steps to get back... based on her response I think you could playfully flirt with her some, wink at her,( LostloveinLA seems to be good at this stuff so perhaps he can give some ideas)and also, have some intimate moments that don't get interpreted as you intending to initiate anything more than just a warm hug, a short caress, a brief squeezing of her hand, tenderness, affection, be sweet but not sexual,I bet you she'll lower her defenses and that's where it all starts. And I wouldn't be surprised if she initiates...

how's everything else? your interactions?

B

[Hootz]

That's great sound advice, thanks heaps!

We are getting along REALLY well, we seem to be friends again, which is quite neat, but we both are still a little reserved about what we say and do, but we are getting more relaxed, so it is starting to feel comfortable.

I've just got to stay positive, and try and see the light at the end of the tunnell.....

[bacci]

You have been holding up great! it is tough to hold back when you want to reach out but I'm glad to see you are aware of having some reservation yourself, something similar is what's holding her back for a just a bit longer, but things are definitely looking better right?

You guys seem to be headed in the right direction. Friendship is the foundation for any relationship, if you are recovering that, it seems like a lot of healing is taking place, remember, it takes time. And there is light at the end of the tunnel, I think you already are perceiving some glimpses...

[hades]

haha, same boat my friend. Which paddle do you want? And why does the boat feel like it's going uphill in S*its creek? I like what you said about the light of the end of the tunnel. I'm mending things with my girlfriend, though we are LD atm. The next few days i believe will be the breaking point, though i felt that constantly since we started talking again.

 

I know for me we rushed things every step of the way. When we where together we fought alot, argued, hit eachother, called eachother bad names, hid stuff from eachother, and then broke up, only to "fall" for eachother in a matter of days. We went from 0 to intimate in the matter of a few hours.

 

It sucks because all of this takes time to heal. I don't want time, i want to be living back in the apt, and showing her that i changed, and working on myself for me as well. I want to give things another try, to start over, to forget and forgive everything with both of us. The only problem with that is if you forget, you will make the same mistakes. If we start over, same thing. If we give it another try right away, it's just means that we rush into something neither of us can handle and we close off.

 

My thoughts are that i need to move soon anyways, so i do plan on moving closer to her. Though i do want to live with her, i think it might be a good idea to get my own apt and take things much slower. Sometimes it feels like there is just to much to work through, and to much that cant be fixed or taken back, atleast stuff i did, however i know i'm moving forward reguardless of her. I know that if we do end up living together again, i will not allow myself to make the same mistakes again. Only thing to do now is to do what your doing. Slowly build back up what we had, and build something we never had.

[Hootz]

Thanks for the input.

I'm finding it tough right at the moment, she has gone out with her friend, to a "womans expo" (make up, lotions etc), and I'm here with the kids, I know this is not the case, but I can't stop thinking, that she's choosing her friend ahead of me, and there's nothing I can do about it. When she left, she handed me my crying 3 year old son, and said bye, I'll see you later...., I looked into her eyes, and thought that I was going to get a goodbye kiss..... but no! Wow, did that hurt!!!! But I just said, bye, have a good time.... and exploded inside!!

I'm staying positive in front of her, and the kids, but it is really tough! I know it has only been a week, but I was hoping to have made some progress by now.

I'm sure I will surprise her when she gets home, because she will be expecting a cold response, like she has in the past after spending the day with her friend, but I will cook her a big roast dinner, and lay on the charm, and hopefully she will be really impressed, and think that maybe I'm a good guy again....

[Hootz]

So the dinner and charm didn't make an ounce of difference. I thought that she might say "Wow, you've cooked dinner (I don't cook often), that'sfantastic, thanks for doing that!", instead I got "what are you cooking? Oh what made you think of cooking a roast?" I even brought the washing in off the clothes line for her. "I bought the washing in for you", her reply "Yeah I see that"

What am I doing wrong?

Do I try NOT to help? Do I try NOT to be nice?

Am I wanting too much too soon?

I'm not asking for a lot... Just a little bit of acknowledgement, maybe a little bit of thanks....

I keep getting mixed messages as well. Every now and then she will use terms of endearment, like "Honey", and "Babe" etc, and sometimes she even brings herself to touching me on the arm, but then 5 minutes later I get no acknowledgement at all....

I'm confused???

[houdini]

I wouldn't give to much, I know some people might think of that as a game but it's based on the push and pull theory. The more you pull towards you the more she'll push away. It's sad I know but people are like that and that's a known fact. It's ok to be nice but if it's out of your character to do that she will see it as manipulating and playing the part. You need to be yourself, don't do anything but be there for the kids and for her when she reaches out to you.

 

If you keep acting like the "Nice Guy" she will eat it up because right now she has her cake and eating it too!!! She gets her friends and she has a "nic guy" at home cooking dinner and bringing in the wash. Can you imagine what she tells her girlfriends???? She's got it made Hootz, so why would she want to change anything. You have to have some dignity, you deserve the best and you deserve to be loved like you want to love and if she isn't capable of doing that for you right now then you need to take the stand. That may seem hard but why torture yourself over and over again for soemthing that isn't wililng to give you 100% back????

 

Hootz, We're all here for you and we're not trying to discourage you in anyway. I'm happy that you've got one foot in the door with your lady but you also got one foot out. Where is your wife at??? is she inside the house with the foot trying to bring you back in or is she standing outside the house doing nothing?????

 

Keep us posted man!!!!

 

Houdini

[bacci]

She seems to be holding back, either testing you or seeing how long these changes will last.

 

I don't think she is choosing her friend over you, but she is being very cautious and trying to maintain some distance...

 

I think is good that she uses terms of endearment

Hang in there these things take a little time to play out, not a short stroy but a novel, keep in mind. Oh, and you still will have to develop the skills to work through the issues (still pending) that got you so close to breaking up, and be able to create a safe space to do so. It does take a lot of time and a lot of effort, only you can decide if its worth it. Don't give up on things too early though, too many times people give up too soon.

Good luck.

[Hootz]

Thanks Houdini/Bacci.

The thing is that I don't want to talk to her about where "we" are at the moment, because she will see that as pressure. I am more than willing to give her the time she needs to re-connect with me, as long as that is what happens. Something else I'm struggling with is the fine line that I have been asked to walk..."please don't smother me, give me space", while still ringing in my ears are the words "you never paid me enough attention, and I resent that".

I'm worried that if I do the whole "I'm just gonna worry about me and my feelings, that she will see that as "he doesn't care... again!"

 

Looks like the line got even finer....

[houdini]

Hootz,

 

When I went to see my therapist with the issues you've just stated he said "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't" I know it's kind of a cold hearted response but it's true. The best way I can look at it is this way: You've stated to her your feelings and what you want and if you havn't already let her know then you should tell her your feelings and what you want your future to be together BUT that you're going to respect her wishes for the space and that you're going to concentrate on yourself to make YOU a better person. You telling her this is laying out YOUR plan as to what you want for YOUR life, if she can't meet those plans or help you work on thos planse together then she will let you know and YOU will be already on your road to recovery and a better person at that.

 

No need to wait around being the nice guy if she doesnt appreciate it and respect it. You deserve more and you deserve the best when it comes to a relationship. As the old saying goes "You never know what you have until it's gone" I know as cliche as it is it is very true. Give her something to open her eyes a bit and show who YOU really are but don't directly towards her do it for YOURSELF.... Your new attitude and selfworth and confidence is one of the most attractive and sexy thing one person can be or do. She will not want another woman to benefit with the new and improved you and will make her see both sides of the fence and not just her side.

 

Keep us posted Hootz and congrats on the "kiss"!!!!!! Take it slow my friend and have some dignity and self worth!!!!! YOU deserve only the BEST!!!!!

 

Houdini

[Hootz]

That's great! Thanks Houdini, I appreciate all of the advice, and support. I think the biggest thing I've learnt out of this, is that, I can be happy being me, and if anybody wants to jump on my bus, then they will also be of the same state of mind, and that state of mind is positive, enthusiastic, and happy.