Perfectionism lost...feeling unsure

[Lily04]

Hi guys,

 

Well some of you may know my difficulties in the past with 'perfectionism'... to the extreme. Butlately I've noticed I've lost some of thhe traits... for one, I used to be perfectionist about my appearance. I probably had 0% body fat, looking at old pics, i was perfectly thin. but now... i gained about 7-8 lbs. in the last month or so, and just... aren't caring as much. I mean, I am feeling a bit down about it, but before I would literally almost starve myself if I gained about 5 lbs. in an effort to lose it within a week. Now...it's just an acknowledgement. Before sweets were completely off-limits, I had a strict diet, but I am actually eating chocolate again sometimes and introducing carbs...

 

I am still thin but not really... perfectly so. i don't know how i feel about this exactly. I think lately I might be a bit depressed because of it, i'm not sure... feeling slightly apathetic. on Saturday I didn't do any work, just took the whole day off... didn't check work e-mails, didn't work out, slept in... and today i was feeling slightly apathetic, slept in again... I do still have schoolwork due this week, but just... don't care as much.

 

I don't know why. Maybe I'm burned out? maybe this is a good sign that i'm less perfectionist about things? but then... I for the first time visited this law admissions site that I haven't visited in about a year. I used to visit it a lot when I was feeling very competitive about law school admissions and really hard-core about getting in. But again, my ambition has been waning but when i visited it, I felt really scared. Like there were all these specific questions about gpa/lsat scores (is a 3.57 ok? mine is 3.55, big difference in median?) that type of thing... and i realized the immensity of these decisions. that even a few decimal points makes a huge difference, could reject you from your school of choice. I don't know if I've given up, essentially. I know I don't feel that same ambition at all. My drive is... not there. I'm almost at the point where I'm not sure if I want law school, but i'm not sure of what I want to do. I definitely do want to be a lawyer, but... i'm not sure i want the competition, all that it entails...

 

I essentially feel really unsure.I have assignments due, but i'm trying not to freak out about it, and lower my standards to get hte work done... at the same time, I don't know what to do about this summer. I don't think my gpa will be up to par. should I study for the LSAT? take extra courses to boost my gpa before I apply... work, study, i don't know. I just feel like... my gpa doesn't reflect my potential. My GPA is actually horrible guys... like around 3.0. It's just about 3.0 actually. i have grades all over the place -- As, Fs, everything. Undergrad def. did NOT go smoothly for me... I just feel like it's all an uphill battle to get what I want. But is it worth it, if I know I can? I'm not sure.

 

feel lost... again.

[numbhead]

u need to get your priorities sorted,,, as i do too

 

take a chill pill,,, think about what you want and dont stress... things fall into place,, when i was in my final yr at uni i put loads of ressure onmy self..not knowing what i really wanted to do afterwards.. i fraduated top of my class.. but after 1 1/2 yrs im just trying to make big decisions now.. mostly because ive recently been dumped i guess...

[Lily04]

Thanks man. So you just focused on the present I guess, and never let the future stress impact you? Did you just focus on graduating or care about graduate school admissions at all? I suppose i'm just strsesed because if I want to apply now is the time to think about that stuff...and at the same time, i seem to be getting lazier, but not sure if that's exactly a good or bad thing because I was soo perfectionistic about stuff before....i.e. one of my Fs last term was just because I was never satisfied with any of my work so I wouldn't submit it... hence getting a 0, when I could have reasonably gotten a B if I just submitted something. sigh.

[Zaphod]

Hi guys,

 

Well some of you may know my difficulties in the past with 'perfectionism'... to the extreme. Butlately I've noticed I've lost some of thhe traits... for one, I used to be perfectionist about my appearance. I probably had 0% body fat, looking at old pics, i was perfectly thin. but now... i gained about 7-8 lbs. in the last month or so,

 

Perfectly "thin"?

 

In my mind a perfect woman has some curves, I bet you're a whole lot sexier with that 7-8lbs extra .

 

Anyway - I think perfectionism is a control thing, an insecurity thing.

 

BTW - you do know that perfection doesn't exist don't you? You are chasing the sun.

 

On the other hand - it's nice to see someone with some high standards.

 

I am unrealistically perfectionist about my art(web design and graphics) and my music. I don't like people seeing it until it's "ready" and I'm never ever satisfied with my own work.

However I realise that to expect perfection would be unrealistic.

 

There is a state of mind that a good artist will take for example IMHO to make the best of yourself and this is my own homemade phrase for it -

 

"Aim for perfection but at the same time realise that you will always fall short (as it doesn't exist)".

 

Sorry my post seems superficial and a little cold, but I have had this experience myself.

 

Perhaps you need to re-jig your definition of perfection, and accept that nothing is perfect?

 

Perfection doesn't exist - it's a theoritical philosophical mathematical tool - a bit like "infinity" - it is a concept.

[mnwildgirl]

Lily - it sounds to me like you need a mental break -not a sleep until noon worrying about things break - take a Lily break. Maybe go for a walk, read a book, eat a good meal, but DON'T think about anything for 10, 15, 20 minutes. You would be amazed what a mental break can do for your day.

 

Also, please know that as you get older your metabolism changes. You now have to work harder to keep that 7-8 pounds off - but don't work too hard! I don't want to get into that too much, but take it from someone who weighs more now than I did when I was nine months pregnant... it is hard to cope with, but it isn't a bad thing to have a couple extra pounds.

 

Oh, and also, from one perfectionist to another, that isn't worth it either. Work hard for what you want, but you have to turn the work in...

[Lily04]

hey,

 

well no offense but I don't think your statement really applies... i'm 22 years old, nowhere near having kids, my metabolism is still young lol. and i'm 5'10" and around 136 lbs... not too bad, but not 'perfect' either...

[Zaphod]

hey,

 

well no offense but I don't think your statement really applies... i'm 22 years old, nowhere near having kids, my metabolism is still young lol. and i'm 5'10" and around 136 lbs... not too bad, but not 'perfect' either...

 

Well perfect in your eyes, but I still say a man likes a few curves -

 

Look at pre raphalite (sp?) paintings - in those days, "perfect" may have been a pear shape for a woman - there are some tribes in the world and some countries where fat women are considered a better catch than thin women.

 

I'm not trying to tell you how to be or what to think, perish the thought, however I can reassure you that men like curves!

 

Often I've been with a curvy woman and she's lost weight and suddenly I don't find her so attractive - sexy, that is.

[Zaphod]

136 lbs

 

What you weigh is irrelevant.

 

Muscle is denser, and weighs more than, fat.

[Batya33]

Here's the thing - I used to be like you - I had a mild eating disorder from age 15 to about age 23 - at some points it was NOT mild and yes it was due to perfectionism as well. Basically, you burned yourself out temporarily - it happens to the best of us. I was always and continue to be very goal and future oriented and yes I find a way to balance that with living in the moment and smelling the roses - what helped that for me was watching one of my closest friends die of cancer at age 34, 9/11 happening, things like that that sure give you perspective and remind you not to be so goal and future oriented where you can't enjoy life right now because you are worrying way too much about silly (yes silly!) things like too much body fat or whether at 22 your biological clock is ticking.

 

One thing that helps a lot - volunteer work or any activity that forces you to be other-centered and balanced - you see how people who are not perfect are actually (gasp!) happy and productive.

 

Also, I lost friends/damaged friendships when I was too much of a perfectionist - I couldn't just relax/chill and I am sure it was annoying to go out to eat with me when I was so into this whole body fat/dieting thing.

 

As far as whether to go to law school - from what I know indirectly, given the amount of work, stress and time and money, and the lost income for three years (other than the summers) unless you get into a very good-excellent school and get high grades it's not worth it.

 

Exceptions: if you don't care whether you can get a job in the field after (i.e. you just want the academic experience for some reason) or if you want to do low-profilepublic interest work then it doesn't matter enough (from what I have heard through friends, the higher profile government/public interest work requires top grades/top schools just like the larger private practice firms).

 

If you have a burning desire to be a lawyer just make sure you are very realistic about what that means to you before investing that amount of time and money in the law degree.

[Zaphod]

I had a mild eating disorder from age 15 to about age 23 - at some points it was NOT mild and yes it was due to perfectionism as well.

 

My Sister had this.

 

Lily - Be warned - an obsession with perfectionism and control, combined with your eating habits can lead to an eating disorder. I am worried about the way you keep going on about physical perfection without the realisation that it doesn't actually exist. Please deal with this before it turns into something more serious. You have support on this forum at least. You can be strong.

[Lily04]

My Sister had this.

 

Lily - Be warned - an obsession with perfectionism and control, combined with your eating habits can lead to an eating disorder. I am worried about the way you keep going on about physical perfection without the realisation that it doesn't actually exist. Please deal with this before it turns into something more serious. You have support on this forum at least. You can be strong.

 

Hi Zaphod,

 

Thanks. Well I remember taking an eating disorder quiz that was developed by Princeton university, released in the newspaper a while back...around end of November/beginning of December. I remember scoring "very likely" to develop one, although it didn't worry me so much at the time because I wasn't starving myself and was still eating decent meals... just very controlled about what I ate. But now I am much less so... I can relate to what Batya was saying about friends not wanting to go out with me & it ruining some friendships at the time though. My sister wouldn't talk with me for a few days because she was so mad at me for dieting and judging people based on what they ate I suppose... I think I was a bit elitist at the time with it, although i also think jealousy was likely apart of it for her because she's a teenager & was gaining a bit of weight at the time... and as a competitive soccer player, was always known as the 'athletic' and skinnier one in the family but once i started losing weight and exercising 7 days/week it challenged her status i guess. i don't know....we were definitely not as close around then though.

 

But now that we're both around the same size, there's less competition between us... i'm about a size 4-6 now, whereas i was a size 4 before... I think that was fine. Maybe toning down my perfectionism to some extent is a good thing though. I just have to learn to be a bit more balanced with it, although i would like to lose about 3-4 lbs. now, that's all.

[Zaphod]

1 - you are obviously self aware and have fair warning of this. Try to do something about it.

 

2 - Try using a mirror and throw the scales out in the rubbish. Stop going on about weight. If you were the nucleus of a black hole you would weigh approximately the same as planet earth, yet only be the size of a football.

Erm actually I don't know this as it's only theoretical, but go with it anyway......lol

[Zaphod]

The words "competition" and "elitist" and "jealousy" stand out to me in this writing.

Think about it.

 

And remember - a man likes a few curves.

[Lily04]

Hey Batya,

 

Thanks for your input. I think if I went into law, I'd want to do criminal and civil work, so I wouldn't likely be making the 'big bucks' of corporate/tax litigators in any case... likely around $60-70,000 I'd guess. Maybe even less, depending on your school/grades.

 

I'm not sure I could do well in law school because there is such an emphasis on memory retention in many classes, which is my weakness. However, I can adequately understand legal concepts, I'd likely just need more time to assimilate the information... my friend at NYU law showed me 2 of his assignments for various classes (I believe civpro and corporate) and it didn't seem beyond my capacity to understand. Managing the coureload is a concern, however.

 

But I still want to be a lawyer. I suppose the alternative would be going into public policy, getting an M.A. in that field. I'm not sure I'd necessarily make more $$ doing that, although the tuition is probably cheaper...

[Zaphod]

Maybe toning down my perfectionism

 

What do you mean - how can you "tone down" perfectionism? Do you mean not be perfectionist abotu so many things, or not expect perfectionism from anything?

 

You will find that if you think about it, what you are saying is not logical IMHO.

 

Please think about it.

 

I nearly - and I say NEARLY became an intolerable perfectionist - I know how you feel. But pure logic dictated to me that I was chasing the sun. And you waste your life doing that.

Philosophy was my turning point - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PERFECT. thereforeeee there is no such thing as a perfectionist.

You cannot BE a perfectionist as perfection doesn't exist. Unless you think you are God. In which case it's not perfectionism you're suffering from, it's megolomanina. Which I doubt you have.

 

Being somethign that you know does not exist is your way of running away from something else. The fact that what you are aiming for does not exist gives you a very convenient excuse to never stop aiming for it, if you think about the paradox.

 

Have you ever thought that it is the IMPERFECTION in thigns that makes them beautiful. Which would you rather have - real things that are beautiful, or pretend things that don't exist that are perfect?

 

Sorry to approach your emotional problem in a cold logical way , but in the real world I believe even for emotional issues logic is a useful tool.

 

Good luck and keep curvy.

[Lily04]

I'm saying I will be less perfectionistic, meaning I will not aim for perfection, but a happy middle-ground. I will aim to do my best, but won't expect so much from myself that it is too challenging & unfulfilling. I see it as a continuum... I won't aim to do less than I'm capable, but I won't aim for so much that it becomes unrealistic & unsatisfying.

 

Also I wouldn't say I'm "curvy"... just not as thin as I was before.

[chigal28]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a common theme in what you're saying is control. Perfectionism can stem from a desire to control a situation to lead to a specific outcome, and that can lead to procrastination. I have been basically that same way my whole life...if I don't think I can do something perfectly right from the outset, I either shy away from it completely, or wait so long to start on it that it turns out to be nowhere near as good as it could have been had I started earlier.

 

I've even been that way with phone calls...if I didn't feel "on top of my game," able to make witty comments and banter back and forth, I wouldn't even call a friend because I would think the conversation wouldn't be "perfect." After a year of therapy, one thing I've learned is that control is an illusion...and it's OK not to be perfect.

 

So now sometimes I start on a story I'm writing for work sooner than I would have, so I have a day or two to go back and make it better. I make a phone call even if I'm feeling tired, because I've realized that I don't care how a friend sounds or acts when I'm on the phone with them--I'm just happy they called.

 

It can also help to make a list of things you need to do, and just check them off one at a time. If you think you *might* want to go to law school, but aren't sure, maybe you could make an appointment to speak with a career counselor, maybe even a law professor, about what they find to be the greatest challenges of the classes and afterwards, the profession. Right now you could just focus on doing research as to whether this path might be right for you.

 

No one says you have to decide everything today, but my advice as one who has been there is to start doing what you can now to figure things out, not to get so overwhelmed that you put it off and put it off. Start small--and remember, you've come this far. You can do what you set your mind to!

[chigal28]

I'm saying I will be less perfectionistic, meaning I will not aim for perfection, but a happy middle-ground. I will aim to do my best, but won't expect so much from myself that it is too challenging & unfulfilling. I see it as a continuum... I won't aim to do less than I'm capable, but I won't aim for so much that it becomes unrealistic & unsatisfying.

 

This sounds to me like a really good approach. Do your best, but cut yourself some slack. All that matters is that you feel good about what you've accomplished in a day, a week, a month or a year. And don't feel bad about taking a couple days to yourself....it can be good to recharge. But I've found that (contrary to what I might feel at the time), I usually feel MORE relaxed after I get out and DO something relaxing--browsing in a bookstore, having dinner with a friend--than I do if I just veg out and watch TV or something.

[Lily04]

Thanks so much Chigal. I already know I really want to go to law school, that's not something to contemplate at this point.. it's whether I can do it that is the question. If not, I will be entirely depressed and may commit suicide, because I don't really know what else in my life would be fulfilling. I know that sounds entirely harsh, but i could see the possibility of it happening in my mid-late 20s.

[Batya33]

That makes no sense, as far as talking about ending your life if you cannot do the career you would like to do. I guess from my perspective, having recently lost a very close friend - like family - to cancer when she was only 34 (and she worked with women with eating disorders) it just seems cavalier to talk about ending one's life based on a career-related disappointment. I desperately wanted kids before this age (40) but it didnt' work out - that is a lifelong dream of mine. Should I end my life because I decided that was the "only" thing that would make my life fulfilling?

 

Instead of thinking negatively to this dramatic and drastic extent why not spend your energy on coming up with a plan B and C and maybe D as alternatives to law school.

[Lily04]

Because I don't want to do that, evidently. I think I will focus on plan A and reach it, as I am evidently capable of it. I have friends at top 8 law schools in the States, and all over the schools in Canada who are just as smart as me... in some cases I have actually received better grades than them on the same assignments. I'm definitely capable, just have to apply myself properly. I'm not sure aiming to be a legal secretary as you suggested Batya, will help to make me fulfilled and happy either.

[Batya33]

I never suggested that you be a legal secretary - I suggested that you be a law secretary to a judge - that is not a secretarial position like a "legal secretary" and indeed friends of mine with law degrees take that position. Perhaps there is not the equivalent in Canada.

 

It's my personal perspective watching my close friend die young and another, also young who now has terminal cancer - that when a young person is so cavalier about ending her life because she can't have the career she wanted that's a bit hard for me to take. Sorry for venting.

 

As far as whether you'll get into and succeed in law school comparing yourself to your friends as you have in your post is largely irrelevant because there are so many factors that go into whether you get in and whether you'll succeed. Between feeling hopeless and feeling that sense of confidence based on spotty information at best there is a really good middle ground where you can feel realistic, reasonably confident and avoid those drastic highs and lows which are just not healthy in my opinion and will be counterproductive to success in law school from what I have heard about the experience.

[RayKay]

Hey Lily,

 

I do know where you are coming from with the perfectionism....actually in a frighteningly similar timeline to Batya, I battled eating disorders from age 15ish to 22 or 23, though mine were quite severe. Even today, when I get stressed, I can find myself having to prevent a reversion to those habits.

 

For my, the eating disorder was a way of control, it was also a way to deal with depression, stress. It is NOT a healthy place to go, and is a HORRIBLE place to be actually so I urge you to confront this problem NOW. Unhealthy relationships with food/body really wear you down and actually increase your anxiety more.

 

As for school....I agree with Batya that not going is no reason to end your life either. Nor does NOT getting in today mean you cannot go for it again in a few years.

 

I would suggest you research the schools you would like to go too, and find out their requirements. Some people do get in with lower grades, with a higher GPA, others base it more on your interview/resume/essay, others more on GPA. Also, in Canada while there are fewer schools, they also meet different needs and have different assets to them. Some are far more competitive than others (Osgoode) while others have a much more collegial environment (Manitoba). Which one you fit into depends on you. I chose Manitoba as my family is here, and I liked the collegial aspect and the wonderful advocacy program they have. We also have great opportunities to go to the courts in first year and shadow judges. For me, I think the fit with Osgoode would not of been as good as it is far more competitive, top grade based, and just is not "me" or in line with where I am going.

 

Also, law is hard. Even if you "get" the concepts, I can promise you right now, that it is not about getting concepts as much as it is about application, being able to "flip" things and see them from different sides, etc. You CANNOT procrastinate. In my first semester we had a 130% course load. I was also working. And in each class I was reading many cases a week. Reading cases is an "active" rather than passive process. There are also assignments (some simple, some hard), papers, advocacy work, pro bono if you choose, etc.

 

It is not just about being smart. My classmates include a doctor, a guy finishing his PhD in chemistry, people whom have worked overseas in Hong Kong as analysts, etcetera. And even they can say it is not just about being smart and knowing the "facts".

 

Time management is TRULY essential so I urge you to develop those skills now, and realize that you have to prioritize your time, and also give YOURSELF time for things OTHER than school to keep your sanity and life, and friends!