Engagement Blues, General Confusion, Bleak Future & Bad In-Laws

[redboots]

One more thing: My boyfriend is Caucasian and I'm hispanic. It's always been made explicitly clear to us that it is rude, rude, rude to speak Spanish in front of non-Spanish speakers. It can't be helped sometimes, I understand. I think it's even more rude, though, to speak Spanish and not make an effort to include non-Spanish speakers in the conversation.

 

It concerns me more that your girlfriend would not make an effort to include you in conversations than it does that her parents speak Spanish.

 

Mine are primarily English speakers, but we're often around family who primarily speaks Spanish. I always make an effort to keep my boyfriend in the loop, to explain what is being said and to translate what he wants to say.

 

I just don't get the impression that your girlfriend respects you much, Anthony. Her family doesn't have to respect you because she doesn't.

 

Sorry for the novel, but I want to leave you with a few things to think about:

 

Do you know people who are happily married? What about their relationship do you admire? How do the dynamics of your relationship compare to those of relationships you know to be happy and stable? What responsibilities do you believe spouses have to each other? Do you believe that you and your girlfriend will be able to fulfill those responsiblities?

 

I know you're torn and must feel lilke a terrible person for having doubts. Please remember that you are doing this because you love this person and precisely because you are a decent and kind person.

 

Be kind to yourself. I firmly believe that we are owed only what we put out in a relationship. I'd say that you have injected kindness, respect, compassion, forgiveness and love into your relationship. Are you getting what you deserve?

[Anthony2007]

Wow, herenow and redboots have really hit the proverbial nail on the head.

 

IN REPLY TO HERENOW:

 

It's interesting to know that you and your now-husband went through a bleak time, both of you comin from dysfunctional families which meant you didn't know how to show love in all ways. Just for the record, my family are absolutely wonderful, loving and expressive. You're very right about my fiance finding it hard to know how to show love through more ways than just physical affection, as a result of how her family is.

 

My fiance and I have thought about counselling but our finances are quite restrictive at the moment and we did try it in the past, resulting in me talking non-stop to the counsellor and my fiance hardly saying anything. I wish she would be happy to go to a pre-marrieds class at church. I'm glad it helped you and your husband. My fiance has very little understanding of the relationship between the man and the woman in the relationship, and how we as a couple relate to our respective parents, families and friends. I guess any suggestion by me of going to a premarrieds class ourselves would be rejected as she has her own strong views and I have views increasingly oriented towards Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings, which do seem very closely based on the bible.

 

I felt very much strenghtened when I read about how the class helped you break off your engagement, get therapy and then feel confident enough to announce yout engagement again. Can I ask why you went back to fighting and being miserable after than, resulting in you breaking off the engagement a 2nd time, and did you lose any friends or wedding suppliers as a result of cancelling it twice? I understand it will be embarrassing for us too but you're right about it being better to suffer laughter now than to marry the wrong person and not be able to get out of it easily in the future. I wouldn't want to marry and hope it works out afterwards, very true.

 

I do realise I need to make some changes too but a lot of the communication problems come from her and her family. It's so difficult to know what to do, as she seems reluctant to change. She also still denies the things she has clearly told many people, such as what her parents have said about me, and so on. And she doesn't want to face up to her mom or me nagging her about her recent weight-gain and other health negatives, diet, etc.

 

I was really interested and warmed to read what you said about the difference between her marrying just to be married, and marrying ME because of ME. Well the strange thing is, she turned me down the first time I proposed (saying her parents wouldn't approve, and she wanted to wait until they were ready to accept me) and she's never really been overly keen on marriage until the last month or so. In some ways, I'm more the kind of person who would marry to be married, but I don't want to marry the wrong person.

 

But even though I disagree that my fiance wants marriage in general more than to marry ME, I would totally agree that she doesn't really, REALLY care about me to the point where she puts me first before her family, and I agree that she doesn't want to lose me or our situation/reasonably comfortable life, house, etc.

 

She needs to cut the apron strings, I totally agree. I wish she would!

 

I'm pleased for you that your spiritual beliefs pulled you together helping you change and appreciate what makes a relationship work. I think it's important that a couple share a spiritual belief, even if not the same denomination as such. I'm a little worried though, as my fiance doesn't believe in creation, believes in abortion, doesn't totaly believe in God despite being raised a Roman Catholic and has other views which are the opposite of mine. I feel real guilty about my recent desire to get to know Witnesses' teachings again, but I know I shouldn't feel guilty? She knew some of my family are Witnesses and at the time we started dating, it was true that I'd not been to their meetings for years and had no desire to. But things change. Meeting such nasty people as her parents is one of the reasons I started taking an interest in spiritual things again. Praying is important and it's great that you do it each day.

 

I don't want her to blame my faith and spirituality for our break-up (if that happens), when it's really her communication problems and family to blame.

 

Where you say near the end of your post "find a partner who will be a good partner in that", would you thereforeeee agree that as well as financially, it would be a good idea for us to postpone our take 2 wedding later this year, in order to see how my fiance finds faith, religion and spirituality? I've seen couples who are different denominations, and they often argue and don't share the same values. But this makes me feel guilty, as I wasn't spiritual or religious when we started dating, so it make me feel like I'm dumping her because I've changed, which is unfair to her. I just wonder how the 'living together before marriage' thing will fit in with me trying to be a Christian following slightly more strict values and teachings. Also, my fiance doesn't agree that the husband is, to a degree, head of the house. It's not a chauvinistic view, I don't feel - I think it's a good principle. But she doesn't seen it that way.

 

Thanks again for your post, herenow.

[Anthony2007]

IN REPLY TO REDBOOTS

 

You touched upon the same thing as herenow, that maybe my fiance just wants to get married more than marry ME. I really am grateful for you bringing that up. As I xaid to herehow, though, my fiance never seemed keen on marriage in the first place and has only recently adjusted to the idea with any passion. Considering she said no at first, then yes only if her parents were happy with it, then our wedding was cancelled because her parents said so, and her sibling cohabited for 10 years before getting married, I'm wondering why she is now so keen on marrying me. It's almost like her enthusiasm is directly linked to her parents'. If they like me one month, she wants to marry me, but if they start slagging me off, she wants to hold back a bit.

 

Thanks so much for the advice not to feel ambivalent and that I'm not suffering cold feet but am justified in the concerns I have. You're right - she hasn't learnt to stand up to her parents at all. The rest of her family are all scared of her mom. I wish I knew why.

 

Exactly - I'm concerned what will happen if and when her parents suddenly change their attitude again. They hate me, then suddenly like me, then what? It worries me. And also how they are fine with things they previously hated about me/us.

 

I'm steering towards postponement now, as you also support what others have said, that the only way to see if my fiance is sincere and her family are genuine is to wait.

 

Perhaps whilst we are waiting, they will change their mood again. If my fiance loves me, she will understand my concerns and she should have concerns myself.

 

The hard fact is, she doesn't have any concerns. Only about the money aspect.

 

And about the Spanish thing, it was good to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I feel totally out of the loop, in the dark. Sure, I understand some Spanish, but her dad is English. The whole family seem to think they have the God-given right to speak Spanish at all times, to English-speakers.

 

Answering your questions, I do know some people who are happily married but I don't know them well enough to talk to. I admire their unison, apparent happiness and the lives they've got. But behind closed doors, their relationships may be disasters too. This is what my fiance keeps saying when I look at others' marriages.

 

You're right, I do feel terrible as a person, for having doubts, but thanks for reassuring me I'm right to have these concerns, and they're out of love and wanting to do the right thing.

 

I'm not getting totally what I deserve, no. I deserve better in important ways. But in domestic and general routinal ways, I get a lot. But as my mom says "If the only good thing about your fiance is that she cooks you nice meals, then employ a cook"

 

Thanks again for your thoughts too!

 

Just a quick final question to everyone, in this post. If we did break up, should I be overly worried about her trying to sabotage my friends, career and so on, or is that a worry all people go through but not much I could do about it?

[redboots]

Anthony,

 

I really commend you for putting so much thought and consideration into your relationship. Most people spend far more time planning their weddings than thinking about the actual marriage, and it's great that your priorities are in the right place. And though I don't know you, I have to say that I'm relieved to hear that you're considering postponing the wedding for the time being.

 

I briefly mentioned that I've been through a broken engagement. We were in the midst of wedding planning when I finally got the courage to break it off, though, in my heart of hearts, I'd always had reservations about going through with it. I was embarrassed and terrified. I worried that my friends or family would judge me, that people would consider me flighty/immature/evil/fill in the blank.

 

My situation also mirrored yours in that my ex and his family had a very dysfunctional relationship. I come from a very warm and loving family; not perfect by any means, but very happy nonetheless. My ex came from a family headed by a controlling, manipulative (and frankly, crazy) woman. By his own admission, he was always uncomfortable and out of sorts around my family.

 

You worry about whether you'll lose the respect of friends and family, or lose people all together if you make the decision not to get married right now. I agonized over how to break the news to everyone (including people who had purchased plane tickets to attend our wedding), and I imagined all sorts of pain and humiliation while doing it. Guess what? Nearly everyone I spoke with expressed relief that I wasn't going to marry a man that they felt was wrong for me.

 

Anyone who deserves the title of friend, Anthony, will support you and your happiness. I think you'll be happily surprised to find that you've got more people who love you and want to see you happy than who want to attend a fancy party you are having.

 

You can't make everyone happy and you'll make yourself crazy trying to do it. The easiest way to make the most people happy is for you to be happy yourself. I've often used the phrase "pulling the band-aid off quickly" to describe how it felt to end my engagement and cancel my wedding. I'd spent so much time agonizing over how horrible it was going to be that, when I finally sucked it up and just did it...it was actually kind of anticlimactic.

 

Oh, there were tears and brief moments of doubt, all right, but I felt an inner peace I hadn't felt in years when I'd finally done it. I remember sitting in my house, alone, staring at my ring finger. For the first time in months, there was no wedding to worry about, no future mother in law to please...it was liberating and sad and terrifying, all at once.

 

You and your girlfriend may find yourselves married when all is said and done. She may realize that she needs to make changes or face the possibility of losing you, or you both may ultimately end up on separate paths. No one can say for sure, Anthony, and that's scary, too.

 

But, really...what's scarier? An unknown future (remember that "unknown" can be as wonderful as it is scary) or one that, at this point, seems more likely to be unhappy than happy?

 

You're headed in the right direction, Anthony. At worst, you're waiting to make a huge and life-altering decision. There's nothing wrong about that.

[assumeLove]

Is divorce really that hard to procedurally process, if we don't have kids?

Catholics can't divorce (in God's eyes). In the US, they can often get an anullment, stating they were never really married, but there's no guarantee. If you divorce her in court (which in most states will take a year or more), and she can't get an anullment, any future marriage she might have will be seen as adultery in the Catholic church.

 

And kids have a funny way of showing up unexpectedly.

 

Do not marry her until you are committed to working your way through whatever comes up. Do not marry her until you're sure she's just fine the way she is. Do not marry her until you're willing to accept her parents as your kids' grandparents.

 

If her changed appearance is making her less appealing to you, don't make coy remarks about looking better for her wedding day -- tell her this is something you need from her to make this marriage work for you, not just for a day, but for the entire marriage.

 

If she won't be the go-between to tell her parents what you want them to know, make a real effort to develop your own relationship with them. Ask them about their childhoods, about what they've learned from life, about what they hope to do in the future. Take Spanish lessons if you need to.

 

If you don't want to go into debt right after a business down-turn just so she can act out her fantasy, start talking with her about which parts of the fantasy are essential and how you two can bring the costs in line with your reality.

 

If you don't want the added headache of different religions in your marriage, give some serious thought to whether you want to become active again in a church you know your wife will never be part of.

 

You're standing in the headlights letting her and her parents and a wedding happen to you and hoping there's an escape hatch if it doesn't magically turn out OK. Embrace the opportunity to create the marriage and family you want.

[Anthony2007]

Hey everyone,

 

Just checking in to give you an update, especially Caro, Redboots and Herenow.

 

My fiance and I have been getting along a bit better since I last posted on here, but I think it's because we're both so exhausted as a result of our busy routine and life, and we're both resigned to the fact that postponing is the best option, primarily financially and then also emotionally, spiritually and logically/practically.

 

Because her parents created so many problems (which you all know about very well by now!) by us not getting engaged "their way" and planning our wedding to suit them, I have asked my fiance to speak to them first, about our decision to postpone. If we just went ahead and postponed, they would probably erupt as we had not "properly consulted them first."

 

We will then take the following months to take stock of our life and relationship, find a more comfortable routine, perhaps my fiance getting a new job without a long drive to work, me sorting my career out too, spending some money on improving our house, having some fun and relaxing together, to try and fall in love again, and to explore things spiritually - all of these things without the pressure of a wedding this summer, which we can't really afford financially and which we're too tired to devote time to.

 

I just wish I didn't feel so guilty though. I've one nothing wrong. A man can't really "propose too early" and her parents did far more to cause trouble than I did. I've not cheated on her despite her disloyalty and also her recent disgregard of her appearance. Yet I feel torn, like I want to find a new situation, but at the same time I can't imagine life without her. I guess this is natural for all couples whose relationship is in the balance and could go either way?

 

So I guess it's a case of seeing where things go from here. I will keep you all updated!

 

Anthony

[caro33]

Sounds like you're on the right track Anthony, best of luck with the various discussions you'll have about postponing. You're being true to yourself (and I think to the relationship) so know that you are doing the right thing no matter what.

 

I think things should become clearer in the coming weeks, but keep in mind that you'll probably have reservations for any direction you take. There'll be no easy or "I believe this 100%" answer - at least I would be surprised if there was.

 

My advice is do exactly as you have suggested, get the pressure off for now. Then do your best by you and by her, live your lives, and then re-evaluate in a few months. Ask yourself then whether you are happier most of the time or not. Perhaps write a list now of what you'll need to see changed when that time comes, and work out what your dealbreakers are. It's fair enough that you set yourself (and your fiancee) some goals so you know later whether it's working or not.

[herenow]

Hi, Anthony,

 

I am so glad that the two of you have some breathing room to let the dust settle and to sort things out properly now! I know how incredible the pressure surrounding a wedding can be. You've been keeping up a really good attitude through everything-- I think it speaks volumes for your character and sincerety in how you approach life!

 

It may be a little late to answer now (sorry I had to leave for a few days, but I was thinking about you and your fiancee during that time), but you asked:

 

"I felt very much strenghtened when I read about how the class helped you break off your engagement, get therapy and then feel confident enough to announce yout engagement again. Can I ask why you went back to fighting and being miserable after than, resulting in you breaking off the engagement a 2nd time, and did you lose any friends or wedding suppliers as a result of cancelling it twice?"

 

In answer to your first question about why we went back to fighting and being miserable in spite of getting counseling, I think that we didn't get enough of the right kind kind of counseling on our first try, and it was expensive on top of that, so we quit after a relatively short time. The first counselor did help us to learn some basic ground rules for how to behave during disagreements. When we earnestly applied what we had learned, we saw marked improvement in our ability to communicate. Maybe we got a little overconfident, because we were secretly/unconsiously hoping to find a shortcut to actually DEALING with all our problems. We got better, but not better ENOUGH, if that makes sense. We didn't get help from that particular counselor with incorporating our spiritual beliefs into our problem solving and that was important to us. So for good reasons and bad ones, we quit.

 

Once on our own again, we did well for a little while, but the actual underlying issues between us (and more importantly inside each of us as INDIVIDUALS) still hadn't been fixed. I am not surprised that we went back to being miserable. Not enough inside of us had changed.

 

It is now easy for me to admit that as a survivor of childhood abuse, I had a lot more to learn about happiness than my husband did. Crazy at it sounds, my mom actually raised me to believe that happiness was selfish and wrong, so I could never get comfortable with it and I would sabotage things when they were going well. I finally got a heavy heavy dose of therapy in a hospital outpatient program that (thankfully) health insurance covered. Once I was able to make enough changes in my OWN thinking and communicating patterns and show my husband with reliably changed behavior how determined I was to make our relationship work, my husband (who honestly had every right to leave me, given the way that I used to be) responded in kind and started working really really hard on his end of things. It was smart for us to be cautious about getting back together. We had stayed friends during the break up and concentrated on learning how to show Christian love towards each other. For us, it worked.

 

Again, I want to emphasize how much it has meant to both my husband and to myself that we share similar spiritual beliefs in spite of our different religious upbringings. It doesn't matter so much where you are coming from when you both share a strong desire to journey together to reach the same ideals of being a more loving person. Because we agreed on what we were trying to attain in terms of a husband and wife relationship, the huge efforts that we made actually moved us in the direction that we wanted to go.

 

Have you ever run a three-legged race (the kind where two people tie stand side by side and tie their inner legs together and then try to run forward)? Some couples find their rhythm right away and zoom forward and make it look easy. Some couple stumble a LOT, but they make progress forward. Imagine if the two people who are tied together don't agree on what direction they are trying to travel!!! They will not only stumble, they will get nowhere. All their energy will go into pulling against each other, instead of into moving in the direction of their choosing together. Either that, or one person will end up yanking the other one along against his/her will, in which case someone is sure to end up miserable. Not a pretty picture.

 

If two people can agree to disagree about direction but giggle and laugh about it while they stumble around and get nowhere, then at least they are having fun, and maybe that is what is most important to them, so then they ARE reaching the same goal together in spirit, even if they get nowhere in a practical sense.

 

I am confident that with time you will know one way or the other more clearly whether you and your fiancee want to move towards the same goals (spiritually, emotionally, etc.--not just financially, though that is important, too) and whether or not you can enjoy your efforts together as three-legged partners in life.

 

With regards to your second question...no, there were no bad feelings from friends or wedding vendors when we had to postpone the wedding indefinitely. As others here have said, true friends don't want you to make a mistake in marriage--they really, really want what is best for you. The wedding vendors we chose were likewise first and foremost quality human beings who wanted us to be happy as a couple, and they patiently waited for us to figure out what would be best for us. If they hadn't been nice about it, so what! Then I would have known not to use them as vendors in the future! You're not being immature and whimsical here. You really have some serious stuff to deal with, and you have to do what you have to do!

 

Odd as it may sound, I want to say

 

congratulations! to the two of you for taking a really big step by calling the wedding off!

 

I think that it was really wise to give yourselves more time.

 

Best wishes to the both of you as you step back and re-evaluate. It'll all work out for the best for everybody in the end.

 

 

[Anthony2007]

Thanks YokeyDokey,

 

I agree with what you say. Quite a lot of people say to me that if her parents didn't like me at first, I should have given them time to adjust to me and become civil towards me, but at the end of the day, people don't change that much from where they started, so I agree with you about discountinuing a relationship being the best option if the parents are very difficult people or even if you yourself don't like them, unless your significant other is on your side and doesn't see their parents very often.

 

But of course in my situation my fiance, who used to really dislike her parents, suddenly sided with them and now does nearly everything they say, not really standing up for anything we believe in.

 

Anthony

 

PS - to everyone else, thanks so much once again for your support. Now that we've cancelled our take 2 wedding, I still don't feel like myself, like my head's in a spin, which I guess is natural? I used to get emotional years ago, but it's not sunk in or hit me yet.

 

I've resigned myself to the accepting the cancellation as the best move, as we do argue quite a bit, our lives are very stressful anyway and we need to sort out a whole load of things before being sure we're suited to get married.

 

It's hard lately as even though we row a lot, my fiance still seems to think we have a great relationship. I wonder if it's because her parents, despite staying together all their married lives, have never got on together and always argue, so maybe my fiance thinks that's normal.

 

She's made it clear on the religious/spiritual front that she's not interested in finding a faith or exploring spirituality. She's got a carpe diem (sieze the day) philosophy to life, which is fine as everyone needs to have some fun, but I just feel that our combined mentality as a couple will drift more and more, the further I continue attending church and studying spirituality.

 

I feel really tired, heavy-headed, miserable and all that stuff lately. I hope it's natural for somebody who's been through what I have, to be a bit depressed after all this?

 

Anthony

[herenow]

Hi, Anthony,

Yes, no worries, the way you are feeling is VERY normal.

 

"It's hard lately as even though we row a lot, my fiance still seems to think we have a great relationship. I wonder if it's because her parents, despite staying together all their married lives, have never got on together and always argue, so maybe my fiance thinks that's normal."

 

Yes, I agree, maybe fighting seems normal to her and at some level she might even feel uncomfortable if it's NOT there...there's even a possibility that it might unconsciously feel to her as though something is "missing" if everything is just fine and there is no fighting.

 

Also, I am sure that, decent chap that you are, you try hard to treat her very nicely...so from her point of view, what she has with you may actually already be very good compared to what her parents have with each other.

 

I feel sad when I think about the world your fiancee has grown up in...it sounds like she honestly doesn't know how good things can be between a man and a woman and in a family, and that because of her upbringing, she doesn't have an understanding of the principles and behaviors that lead to that happiness. Maybe she is counting herself "happy enough" right now with you and she might be content with anything that is just better than her family was--she may not even be able to imagine the level of happiness that is the ideal that you envision for family life... It would make sense from her point of view, right?

 

"She's made it clear on the religious/spiritual front that she's not interested in finding a faith or exploring spirituality. She's got a carpe diem (sieze the day) philosophy to life, which is fine as everyone needs to have some fun, but I just feel that our combined mentality as a couple will drift more and more, the further I continue attending church and studying spirituality."

 

You each have to follow the path that you think is right for you.

 

Was your fiancee raised in a dogmatic and/or repressive religious atmosphere that she associates with the concept of God? She might have a legitimate need to leave behind what she considers to be the "church" and all the baggage that she might associate with it and explore what "freedom" is. Personally, even though I believe in and love Christ, I feel that 99.9% of churchgoers have a severely narrowed view of what a "religious" life means and their views are not Biblically based--they come from church dogma and from taking limited snippets out of the Bible out of context. There's a lot to legitimately reject about the worldly manifestations of the church in actual practice. It is possible (and my hope for your fiancee is) that later on in life she will discover that living with God actually brings the ultimate freedom, and find her way back either to her original church with a new outlook, or find her way to a different church. But you can never know or force someone else's path or timeline.

 

Well, enough musings about that for now. Time will tell the paths that you take.

 

Sounds like you are putting one foot in front of the other and taking each day one day at a time. You're doing great, even if the feelings at the moment are not so fun.

 

Hang in there!

[redboots]

Hello Anthony,

 

Postponing your wedding was a very courageous and difficult choice, and what you are feeling is absolutely normal. Don't worry if you experience a lot of ups and downs while you work through the issues you're facing. You will be elated at times and devestated at others. Just trust your instincts and believe that you are acting with only the best of intentions.

 

You're absolutely correct about why you and your girlfriend perceive your relationship differently. She comes from an environment centered on conflict - you do not. She may feel as uncomfortable in your peaceful world as you do in her chaotic world.

 

It must be a huge relief, though, to be able to focus on your relationship instead of the wedding. All the best to you and your girlfriend, Anthony.

[Anthony2007]

Since we cancelled our take 2 wedding we have been getting on much better as a couple. I reckon it's partly because my fiance is scared to lose me now there are no definite wedding plans between us. But originally she was very reluctant to get engaged/married. I'm just concerned that due to our previous communication problems and all the other problems between us, which we haven't really addressed yet, we will go back to arguing when we return to considering a wedding at some point in the future, despite getting on better now.

 

I don't know what's happening to me, as I've ended up with minor panic attacks and a minor bladder problem, which is probably a result of the stress I'm under at work, and as a delayed reaction to the problems her parents caused last year and with our weddings.

 

I'm feeling really happy about going back to Witness meetings but whenever I go there, I feel like I'm living a secret life as my fiance is not part of it and doesn't really want to be. But despite my regular church attendance now, she seems very comfortable with me having a different faith to her, and her parents seem cool about it too, which is weired 'cos they were so opposed to it before.

 

And on an intimate level, our relationship is stil pretty active despite the immense stress we're both under and how tired we feel, but I feel awful as ever since she sided with her parents and cancelled our original wedding without even asking me, I've started to notice other women. Nobody in particular, just other women in general. The first year and a half of our relationship, I didn't even notice other women, so I guess I might be doing so now subliminally as a result of her "having an affair with her parents", which is how it felt. I guess it might also be adefense mechanism, me almost thinking about happier times where the proverbial grass is greener, despite things being ok between us at the moment.

 

Hhhhmmmm, sigh....

 

Anthony

[caro33]

Anthony I think I suggested to you earlier that perhaps you should write a list of the things you need to see changed, and be clear what needs to happen. I would also suggest that you make some effort yourself to do what it takes.

 

You sound like you might just be treading water, could that be correct? I just wonder if you continue like this how you will be in a better position to be "more sure" about things down the track.

 

I guess it's a time that if I was you I would be trying to be optimistic, and I would be giving it my best shot. No point being half-hearted here. But also be able to put responsibility on your fiancee for her part of the deal. Be clear what you need to see changed to feel good about a marriage in the future. You can do this sensitively and carefully, it will be hard but you need to try. The religion aspect is one of these issues. You need to communicate the importance of your needs and be prepared to make some tradeoffs or have some negotiation. Whatever it takes for you to feel comfortable overall with how the things you value are accounted for. What are your "dealbreaker" issues really and are you being true to them? And what are her "dealbreaker" issues? Find out if you don't know and see if you can live with them.

 

This is your time to determine if this can work. Maybe it can. Or maybe neither of you are really up to it, which is fair enough, but you're not going to know unless you genuinely try and then find it still doesn't gel.

[Anthony2007]

Hey everyone,

 

I just wanted to thank you all again for the recent support you gave me on here.

 

It was the right decision to cancel our take 2 wedding to give us time to settle, and even though things mike become bitter between my fiance and I again once we start talking about weddings and other important issues again, things for the moment are more relaxed and happier between us. She still denies a lot of the things her parents (provenly) did and said, but we've not argued for a few weeks now.

 

She's going on vacation with her parents next week, to visit her grandmother in Europe and unexpectedly I'm feeling a preemptive feeling of missing her already and she's not even gone yet. This is more like my feelings of the old days when things were better between us, before the war with her folks started. So I guess it shows I still love her deep down, even though a few weeks ago I wanted out due to her attitude and disloyalty.

 

Take care everyone and I hope you're all good.

 

Anthony

[beautifullybroken]

As a married person of two years with toxic in-laws...you have two choices. Get out or move away and avoid contact. Neither option is easy, but your life will be living hell with these people. Remember too that your fiance grew up with these behaviors....there are probably things that will come out later with her.

 

My advice....follow your instincts. Get out now.

[Anthony2007]

My prospective future in-laws do seem to have calmed down recently though, since we agreed to postpone our original wedding to give them more time to mentally adjust to us getting married and to contribute financially.

 

During your 2+ years of marriage with toxic in-laws (which I agree must be hell if they're still toxic) were there ever times when they calmed down and were nice to you?

 

I guess in the back of my mind is always the question, will my future in-laws go back to their nasty ways at some moment in the future, even though they're being nice now.

 

Thanks for your post!

 

Anthony

[Anthony2007]

I don't really know where to start, but... It's now May and I've still not emotionally, physically or mentally recovered from these events. My life, and our life as a couple, has been so busy and stressful that I've not even become upset about what happened, each week bring with it its own new set of hurdles. Her parents have not caused any trouble for 3 or 4 months now, but she doesn't speak to them very often anyway and I'm sure that in due course something new will upset them and they will cause trouble again. But I guess I should be positive and assume they won't. They don't have anything to do with me i.e. they don't call me or ask her how I am, when they speak to her, but they don't seem bothered about me attending Jehovah's Witness meetings and they're not trying to actively break us up as a couple.

 

My fiance never really talks about anything or shows any emotion, but last night in bed she sounded like she was crying, so I gently asked her what's wrong. She didn't want to tell me at first but then said I've changed and she feels sick. She feels I'm always irritable, not the same person she got with 3 years ago, she says my constant complaints about my day at work are getting her down, she hates the fact we don't have fun anymore and she hates Witnesses, wishing I had never rekindled my interest in religion or the bible and said she would never become one and will show no interest in my potential faith, but won't stop me attending.

 

We had a long talk and she said things like "perhaps we're not meant for each other any more then" and "oh go off with someone else then", but she said she knows I've never been unfaithful, she recognizes the fact I'm still with her despite the pain she put me through by not standing up to her parents, and she still loves me, although she admits she's not "in love" with me as much as at first.

 

I told her I was still shocked and saddened by the trouble her parents caused and her not standing up to them, I'm embarrassed and ashamed that I've let my firm suffer and become less profitable recently, I apologised for having rekindled my interest in faith and the Witnesses, and I told her that I didn't think we should break up, and we should try week by week to accrue more money, find some stability and happiness and do more things together as a couple. She agreed and said we should never discuss religion, politics, science or any other controversial subjects, ever again, then we will get along fine.

 

I just don't know what to do. The reason I'm negative each day after work is because each day IS difficult and depressing with not much going right, we don't have any disposable income for fun things just now, and I'm not convinced her parents have fully changed. I've ended up with a bladder problem, stress, nerves, chest pains and all kinds of stuff after last year's events, but I'm still with her, hoping for happier times.

 

I feel kind of helpless as my friends and family say I look like a collapsed man, although I try and put on a brave face. I don't see my friends very often, trying to see my fiancee as much as possible in our busy routine, but I still feel like I'm juggling and balancing so many things and negleting her from time to time. I feel like a different person in that I have lots of anger trapped inside me after last year, but I never become violent or aggressive. I guess I just show it by being tense and stressed. And I've started to notice other women. Not anyone particular, but just other women. Until the problems with her folks and the postponement of our wedding, I never once (really, honestly) even dreamed of looking at other women. Whenever I look at them, it's almost like I'm yearning for a happier time, not particular the women themselves. You may recall my fiance gaining weight and not looking after her health eating lots of junk food since her parents caused trouble. Well she's still the same. She says I must buy her new clothes if I want her to look nice. Everything's just oh so difficult and obviously I wish they weren't, as we were happy. It's almost like decay and different ideals set in since her folks caused the problems, but she now even denies they caused any problems, saying it was all my fault. I wish she would confide in her friends and family instead of bottling her own feelings up.

 

I just wanted to express myself on ENA again to give you all an update.

 

Anthony

[redboots]

Hi Anthony,

 

Sorry to hear that you're not in a great place right now.

 

I know you said that you don't want to take a break right now, but it sounds like you've got a lot going on, and your fiancee isn't being very supportive. You seem to be shouldering the financial burden in this relationship, and it seems you're killing yourself to do it. What is your girlfriend's financial situation like? Why isn't she contributing more and helping ease your emotional and financial burden?

 

I think a break would do you both well at this point. You haven't been happy in this relationship for quite some time - more time won't heal the cracks that are already there.

 

I am also deeply disturbed by the fact that you found yourself apologizing for your faith (be it Wittness, Wiccan or Catholic). Issues with faith are huge obstacles to any relationship, moreso when one party will not respect the other's views. Respect for one another is fundamental and, honestly, I just don't think either of you respects the other at this point.

 

You and your fiancee both deserve to have a partner whose expectations and beliefs are compatible with their own. You two have grown apart, and it is in your best interest (hers, too) to take some time and space apart.

 

Good luck - keep us posted

[herenow]

Hi, Anthony,

 

Ditto to Redboots above.

 

Have you prayed directly to God to ask if this is the relationship God wants you to stick with for the rest of your life, or if you should let go? It really helps not only to analyze with the head and heart, but also to listen to that still small voice of guidance inside.

 

In my husband's and my premarrieds class, one of the homework assignments involved a needs assessment. EACH PARTNER IS TO FILL OUT THE SURVEY ALONE AND FULLY HONESTLY.

 

 

Here's a summary of the questionnaire:

 

"We all enter marriage with certain basic needs. And, as we do we bring the assumption that our mate will know what our needs are and will meet those needs. Because we all have a need to love and be loved, we enter marriage expecting to love our mate and be loved in return. While some of our needs are evident and easily seen, others are not so apparent and recognizable. Becoming aware of our own needs and our mate's needs is a life-long process of discovery. This discovery process takes commitment, communication, and hard work.

 

Will all of our needs be met in marriage? Believing that all of our needs will be met in marriage is an unrealistic expectation. However, it is realistic to expect that many of our needs can and will be met within marriage.

 

The homework exercise that follows is designed to help you begin to discover some of the basic needs which you and your fiancee will be bringing into marriage."

 

Rate each need you have:

1=not a need; 2=somewhat a need; 3=great need

 

1. To know I am accepted and loved as I am

2. To know I am trusted

3. To be told I am loved

4. To be shown affection

5. To be open, hones, and transparent

6. To show love and affection to others

7. To be encouraged in my efforts to do well

8. To make decisions as a couple

9. To resolve conflict

10. To be accepted when I fail and make mistakes

11. To plan the family budget together

12. To be told the truth in everything

13. To win every argument

14. To spend time with my family

15. To be alone sometimes

16. To be able to cry

17. To know the other person is listening to me

18. To have a secure income

19. To have more laughter in my life

20. To express my thoughts and feelings

21. To have time to read

22. To have children

23. To have "dates" together after marriage

24. To have more friends

25. To get involved in helping others

26. To handle my depression better

27. To set goals as a couple

28. To participate in sports activities

29. To have long-range economic security

30. To initiate sex in our marriage

31. To have a prayer-life together

32. To learn how to handle criticism

33. To change my job or career

34. To be kind to others

35. To have kindness shown to me

36. To take more responsibiity for myself

37. To grow as an individual and as a couple

38. To grow in my understanding of God

39. To talk about this exercise

 

"Compare your answers with the answers of your fiancee, and then answer the following together:

 

1. What will you receive out of marriage that you won't receive by remaining single?

 

2. In what ways are you and your fiancee similar? How are you different? How can your similarities or differences help each other in marriage?

 

3. Expectations are brought into marriage by both fiances. Expectations carry with them an attitude of hope about good things for the future. List expectations you and your fiancee have about your marriage. They can be simple or elaborate, but at least half should deal with responsibilitles (i.e. who's going to take out the trash?)

 

4. Tell about three of the most disappointing experiences of your life. How did you feel? What did you do?

 

 

********

 

As you can see, even answering those questions honestly takes a fair bit of maturity.

 

Maybe the questionnaire can help you see the potential in this particular relationship or not?

 

You know, my husband told me that one of the reasons (besides our rare spiritual compatibility) that he was willing to marry me is that I had taken the time out to analyze my past and work out and resolve past ugly feelings towards my father, who had abused me in the past. I had forgiven and developed a friendly relationship with my father by the time my husband entered my life. My husband's self-preserving but important observation (and he is a keen observer and a good listener for people of all genders, ages, and backgrounds) was that girls/women who had anger or other issues with their fathers inevitably transferred them unconsiously right onto their husbands, and the husbands would really suffer. He is a softie at heart who wants to help women, but he disciplined himself to not marry one who had not resolved the father-daughter relationship. He has been very willing to help me do the work to get to that same place of resolution with my mother--but he says (and I think it's true) that bitterness, anger, despising or laughing at or making fun of or otherwise diminutizing the father, etc. from the daughter towards the father really affects her ability to give and receive love with a husband.

 

My husband and I each had short, but important to each of us, lists of other "dealbreakers" as well, like "spiritual compatibility and a willingness to pray together", "no infidelity", "able to communicate well and learn to communicate even better", "willing to work towards constant improvement of self and relationship", "willing to get help when necessary", "no smoking" and "no financial irresponsibility" (not necessarily "make a lot of money", though money is great to have and we are grateful to have it, but rather a shared vision of what financial responsibility would mean--a willingness to cut back on expenses to trim down debt, to wait to buy things we can't afford yet, to enjoy money when we have it while also saving it, to consult with each other before major purchases, to fully disclose finances to each other and to set a budget together, etc..).

 

What is your honest list of "dealbreakers"? Your fiancees?

 

Good luck....keep us posted!