New to this whole dating thing

[Cooperstown]

Basically I've been in long term relationships for the last 6 or so years, one lasting 4 years the other 2. There was some single time inbetween but that was more of a healing period and not really a dating period. The first was a high school sweet heart and the other was someone I worked with who did all the hard stuff, she asked for my number, she called me, she asked me out to dinner and we basically were a couple from that point on. I'm now 23 and I really have no dating experience. I'm somewhat shy, but I have no problem meeting new people and I have dated a small small bit recently. My problem is I'm very analytical and I over think things. I guess I don't have an understanding on "the rules" so to speak. As far as calling goes you want to show interest but you don't wanna be calling to much. You want to make sure that she knows you are looking for more then a friend but you don't want to be a pervert. You want to make it clear your looking for something mroe then a casual thing, yet how do you do that. This leads to my current dating situation, I met a young woman at a party on Halloween, we talked and had a great time and I ended up getting her number. I gave her a call and we made dinner plans the following Saturday. The date went pretty well and we just talked and enjoyed each others company for about 4 hours. She mentioned a movie she liked and we had similiar interests there so I asked if she had it and she did. So I suggested that we go watch it at her place since it was only a few blocks away. She didn't have a DVD player so that didn't happen, but she said suggested that we watch it at my place later the following week. So we made plans to see each other this last Thursday, but no time was decide. Since she's a law student with 3 different jobs and a very hectic schedule I just told her to call me sometime that week and we'd figure out the plans from there. I waited until Wednesday night and then just left a message wondering what time she was going to come by tomorrow and to have her call me for my address. I got a text Thursday saying she forgot a friends birthday and if I was busy Saturday or Sunday. So I called her back and said either worked for me. I ended up going to visit a friend so I text her that Sunday would actually be better for me. She never ended up calling to reschedule, I left a message today saying something along the lines of she must of had a busy weekend and to give me a call if she wants to do something. At this point the ball is in her court. I guess I'm just curious, did I call to much or try to make to much contact on this one? Since she made the initial push for a second date why did I get stood up? Is she playing games? Is dating going to always be this ackward or does it get easier with time once you get more familiar and comfortable with it?

[Aurian]

No, I think you did okay. I think the problem is that either she wasn't interested and didn't know how to say so, or she is simply to busy to date properly. If she doesn't respond though, I'd just let her go.

[heloladies21]

did I call to much or try to make to much contact on this one?

No, I'd actually say the opposite because it seems like things too a litle too long to progress and it wasn't sustained by talking over the phone at least. Gotta keep things moving or else she'll forget abuot you/think you're not interested.

Since she made the initial push for a second date why did I get stood up?

Don't read too much into it, but realize that at this point you are not a priority in her lfe yet. Think about it, you're some guy who she likes, but you went on one date together. Not a lot of history to base things on. Not saying that this shouldn't play into how you handle things with her, you should most likely tease her about it (let her know you noticed it, but it didn't shake you), but this is common for chicks to do at the beginning. It is a test of your confidence and persistence, to see if you posess these qualities. You show her you do or don't by your reaction.

Is she playing games?

She is testing you, but all girls do this and it's your job to pass the tests.

Is dating going to always be this ackward or does it get easier with time once you get more familiar and comfortable with it?

It does get easier as you learn what's really going on and how to handle it. And by posting here, you do just that, so keep at it.

[LostInMyThoughts]

I agree; it looked like you did okay.

 

One suggestion, instead of having her call you first to setup plans, be proactive and say you'll call her.

[heloladies21]

One suggestion, instead of having her call you first to setup plans, be proactive and say you'll call her.

Actually the best thing you could've done would be to change plans onthe spot. Like say "sat not gonna work for me, let's do sunday at 6 instead." No indecisiveness, no waiting for her to call you.

[friscodj]

Hey C-Town-

 

Actually, you are in a great place right now man. You are more likely to be genuine and be yourself not knowing the silly notions of how "it" works or "how the game is played". You've not become bitter and jaded by years of dating like me!

 

You do know what to do and it is based on common sense and decency. Forget the games, the moves, the strategies. Treat the women you meet (and yourself) with respect and decency and use your best judgement to make your decisions on this basis as situations arise. That is fundamental.

 

You aren't trying to "pick up" every woman you meet, not trying to be Mr. GQ Smooth. You want to meet and build a good relationship with a woman with whom you share a good fit and make each other's lives better. And that woman wants to see, be with, and accept you, your way, the truth of your character, not someone playing essentially games of manipulation by doing some of the utterly silly and disrespectful things suggested in this thread.

 

You did good man, you did your best with what you had when you had it. Keep doing that and you'll be just fine...

[heloladies21]

some of the utterly silly and disrespectful things suggested in this thread.

What are these things exactly that you're referring to?

[Lansing]

What are these things exactly that you're referring to?

 

Yeah, I am wondering the same thing!

 

I think both posters have given good advice...

 

I think the key is how you follow-up...You want to come accross as confident even if you are feeling "nervous" or scared she will reject you again...

[heloladies21]

What are these things exactly that you're referring to?

Well I guess we'll never know, but I don't encourage games or any of that. What I do encourage is learning from other people's experience and perspectives and not being naive to think that we all come programmed with the ability to have successful relationships. If this were the case, then we wouldn't have this riduculous divorce rate and break ups happening all over the place.

 

Just be yourself? Of course! I would never say anything to the contrary. I'm all about learning what it really means when a chick says/does something. Also learning how it comes accross to a chick when I do something. It's not learning how to manipulate women, it's learning how to understand women.

[friscodj]

Do you really think fulfillment from relationship is going to come from having the mindset of basing relationships on "passing tests"?

 

I can surely tell you all women do not think this way, having to "test" men in such ways. I've had conversations with female friends, girlfriends, and family members over the years about similar subjects and the overwhelming response has been they have dated guys like this, who think like this, and they want nothing to do with such situations again.

 

My philosophy is that if you guys are right for each other, a good fit in terms of values, viewpoints, sense of humor, similar relationship desires, etc. and you focus on treating her how you would like to be treated, things will come together and you will have a solid basis on which to build a fulfilling relationship.

 

This situation isn't about "picking up chicks", it's about discovering a truth of your fit together. It is about that mindset. This is me, that is you, this is us. What do you think? And if you guys fit, details about who calls who when, how many days pass between calls, etc. will work themselves out based on actions inspired by your nature and driven by deep desires for or against a relationship. Genuine honesty in the beginning will lead you to the path to true intimacy or allow you to suitably exit the situation and open up possibility for a relationship with whom you can share true intimacy.

 

With that said, I believe if your mindset dictates a need to "change plans on the spot" and perceive a relationship and resulting happiness based on your "test results", you are in for an ultimately emotionally lonely life and one where you lose touch with what real intimacy with, and as such understanding of, a woman is.

 

And yes, I believe if you "change plans on the spot" under the auspices of "showing" her something about yourself, it is a form of manipulation.

[heloladies21]

Do you really think fulfillment from relationship is going to come from having the mindset of basing relationships on "passing tests"?

We talked about this on another thread, I did not make it this way. This is not the way I want it to be, but this is the way the girls act. Don't flame me just because I have come to an understanding which has left me the opposite of jaded as far as relationships are concerned. I understand the tests, I know why they are happening, and I know how to react to them. thereforeeee I now have the knowledge to have successful relationships. If you don't want to live in this world, feel free, but no need to flame or try and censor me just because I've figured this part of male/female interactions out.

 

As for your statement, I'm in a very fulfilling relationship and have been so for a while. Everything is the way I want it to be and trust me, she feels the same. So I could just keep doing what I'm doing and have the continued success, or I could try it your way and fail like I did before. That's a tough decision right there.

 

I can surely tell you all women do not think this way, having to "test" men in such ways. I've had conversations with female friends, girlfriends, and family members over the years about similar subjects and the overwhelming response has been they have dated guys like this, who think like this, and they want nothing to do with such situations again.

Again, feel free to believe them, but I'm going to believe what happens right in front of my face and what I see happening to others over what someone tells me. I notice the tests when they happen and every girl has pulled them with me. They have pulled them with every one of my friends and I see them on here all the time. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna just take your word for it.

 

My philosophy is that if you guys are right for each other, a good fit in terms of values, viewpoints, sense of humor, similar relationship desires, etc. and you focus on treating her how you would like to be treated, things will come together and you will have a solid basis on which to build a fulfilling relationship.

It would be nice if things were like this. I used to have this ramanticized view, but it's just not reality. I've been in relationships that posess all of the qualities you write, and they break apart. I've also been in relationships where these qualities were severly lacking and because I wasn't naive anymore and could see the big picture, the chick still couldn't get enough of me and was totally in love. The relationships were a success as far as I'm concerned.

 

This situation isn't about "picking up chicks", it's about discovering a truth of your fit together.

I'm not all about just "picking up girls" either, don't put words into my mouth. I'm no player and don't encourage that lifestyle.

This is me, that is you, this is us. What do you think?

Sounds great! I'm all for it. I'm all about educating the REAL you so that guys can have successful relationships.

And if you guys fit, details about who calls who when, how many days pass between calls, etc. will work themselves out based on actions inspired by your nature and driven by deep desires for or against a relationship. Genuine honesty in the beginning will lead you to the path to true intimacy or allow you to suitably exit the situation and open up possibility for a relationship with whom you can share true intimacy.

You completely misread my entire view. If you've read any of my posts, I personally criticize people who are overly concerned with who calls when and all of that. I've repeatedly posted that girls look for ginuine guys. You're not disagreeing with me by saying these things.

 

With that said, I believe if your mindset dictates a need to "change plans on the spot" and perceive a relationship and resulting happiness based on your "test results", you are in for an ultimately emotionally lonely life and one where you lose touch with what real intimacy with, and as such understanding of, a woman is.

Well I just checked my love life again and it seems pretty good, so I appreciate your concern, but there's really no need becuse my method works! Or you can encourage people to see things your way (which for your guys doesn't work). Your choice, just stop flaming me.

 

And yes, I believe if you "change plans on the spot" under the auspices of "showing" her something about yourself, it is a form of manipulation.

If you believe this then you lack a fundamental understanding of male/female interactions and communication in general and how what you say and do and the way you do it have an effect on how the other person percieves it.

 

I'm not really concerned with being right or proving you wrong or any of that. I'm only interested in what works. I wanna have successful relationships. My advice works to achieve that, not just for me, but for the people who use it.

[Cooperstown]

Thanks for the insight on this, I had a feeling the current dating situation wasn't going to go much of anywhere after this weekend, however, I have taken quite a bit from it. I guess I preceived her busy schedule as something to work around and since I'm far less busy I would let her choose a time that worked and call me to set it up. Clearly I need to be more aggressive in this aspect and be more direct. As for the back and forth about how to "play it" so to speak. I think that all depends on the girl really, I've been in 2 relationships both were good for 80% of there duration. Each started in a different way, one I jumped through hoops for a few months before that start(of course that was a high school girls they do behave differently now, atleast I hope!) and the other came to me and did not play any games. Personally I'm all for no games, really who wants to figure out all the crap that goes along with it. I'm a real straight forward guy, getting rain checked then stood up really doesn't bother me. It's just the manner in how it was done, if you weren't interested just say it so we can take the evening at face value. Overall the first date was nice, we had good conversation, a nice dinner a few laughs but in the end for whatever reason it doesn't work that's fine, thank you for the company it was nice meeting you. Then perhaps you can take a friend avenue from there. But when you get into all the crap of being discourtes and standing someone up. It's like saying there not even worth respecting. Anyway that's just my thoughts, feel free to disect, it's the best way to learn.

[Dating Coach]

I met a young woman at a party on Halloween, we talked and had a great time and I ended up getting her number.

 

Well done!

 

I gave her a call and we made dinner plans the following Saturday. The date went pretty well and we just talked and enjoyed each others company for about 4 hours. She mentioned a movie she liked and we had similiar interests there so I asked if she had it and she did.

 

Well done again!

 

So I suggested that we go watch it at her place since it was only a few blocks away. She didn't have a DVD player so that didn't happen, but she said suggested that we watch it at my place later the following week. So we made plans to see each other this last Thursday, but no time was decide. Since she's a law student with 3 different jobs and a very hectic schedule I just told her to call me sometime that week and we'd figure out the plans from there.

 

This was your first big mistake. I understand that her schedule is very hectic, but I doubt she was looking to have the burden of having to set something up with you. You're the man, you set up the dates. If she doesn't know her free time, ask her when she'll know and tell her you'll call her then to set up a date. You have be be pro-active rather than placing the burden on her shoulders.

 

I waited until Wednesday night and then just left a message wondering what time she was going to come by tomorrow and to have her call me for my address. I got a text Thursday saying she forgot a friends birthday and if I was busy Saturday or Sunday. So I called her back and said either worked for me.

 

A minor mistake. She's a ballbusting hard worker, so hard in fact that she doesn't have free time. When she asks if you are available Saturday or Sunday you shouldn't broadcast it that you have no plans on either day. It honestly makes you look a bit boring. Nothing to do on a Saturday? Saturday is the day that most people have something going on! I think it would have been best for you to tell her you have plans for Saturday but Sunday would be great! And then give her a specific time. ALWAYS try to be as specific as possible.

 

I ended up going to visit a friend so I text her that Sunday would actually be better for me. She never ended up calling to reschedule, I left a message today saying something along the lines of she must of had a busy weekend and to give me a call if she wants to do something.

 

You told her both days were good, she asked you first, and you went ahead after that and made other plans? What if she was thinking that Saturday was good? This is yet another reason why you make specifc plans. You leave way too much crap open.

 

At this point the ball is in her court.

 

Then perhaps it's best if she move on. The last two times she tried to suggest a day you weren't specific with her at all and both days didn't end up coming to fruition. If she suggests a day, then let her know exactly what you can do. Get to the point and set up a specific time and date.

 

Call her again. This time have a specific time and date in mind as well as a specific place. Prepare to be flexibile so if she is busy and can't do it for your suggested time then have a counter offer. If she doesn't know what her schedule is then find out when she will know what her schedule is and then tell her you'll call her then to set something up.

 

I guess I preceived her busy schedule as something to work around and since I'm far less busy I would let her choose a time that worked and call me to set it up. Clearly I need to be more aggressive in this aspect and be more direct.

 

Yes!

 

I'm a real straight forward guy, getting rain checked then stood up really doesn't bother me.

 

Depends on how you mean that. Being stood up for me is a big no-no unless there is a good reason. If not then that person likely excluded themselves from any future consideration.

 

...if you weren't interested just say it so we can take the evening at face value.

 

I wouldn't go out into the dating world and expect this to be the case. The vast majority of the time you won't be getting people to "say" what's really up. You'll have to be doing a lot of figuring out on your own. What women say and what they do can be two very different things. Just remember that Actions speak louder than Words.

[Beec]

Sorry if I am stepping in here too late, but friscodj's comments are strictly for relationships depicted on TV and in fairy tales. Every woman I ever dated tested me. None of these women wanted everything they asked me for. My telling them NO oftenr esuled in a woman coming back to me a short while later seemingly more attracted to me than ever. It happened so much, so foten, that it is clear to me there is a conenction, which means they were and are, and have always been playing games. It's just the way things are, refuse to play at your own peril.

[Dating Coach]

Do you really think fulfillment from relationship is going to come from having the mindset of basing relationships on "passing tests"?

 

friscodj, I can already tell where this conversation is going. In order to redirect this conversation onto the right path you are going to have to try very hard to discard all of your assumptions. Right now you are making a huge assumption as per what people are saying. You appear to be taking the stance that things such as "tests", "picking up chicks", etc are entwined with being a player, being dishonest, etc. You couldn't be more off of the point if you are looking at it this way.

 

I can surely tell you all women do not think this way, having to "test" men in such ways.

 

ALL women will test you, however you aren't looking at it correctly. You appear to be assuming that we are saying that women think to themselves... "Today, I am going to test to see how much of a pushover he is. If he fails, I will lose interest and dump him." This is not the case at all (at least for most women). The test is not something she is consciously doing. It's the inevitable point where each person makes a choice as per what signals they will be sending to the other person.

 

For example; if a woman has her interest piqued by you but for some reason is a bit hesistant and thus she throws an excuse your way when you ask her out. She isn't consciously testing your self confidence, however the situation caused a test. This moment is a moment where you either show you have the self confidence to persist and thus show her you are strong, or you could let the situation defeat you by causing you to back down from the challenge. If you let that moment defeat you then you've failed the test. You instead sent her the vibe that you aren't so strong, that you are easily defeated.

 

Another such test; if you are dating a girl and the past two dates you've agreed to take her to a diner which served food she likes, yet you do not. When you set up a third date suggesting you go to a diner you like and she ends up telling you she wants to go back to her place, this is a test. She's not really thinking to herself, "I'm going to see what kind of pushover this guy is" but instead the situation she put you in brought forth a moment, a test in which you have to pass. This test is a challenge of your self respect. You've already sacrificed two dinners eating food she likes and it's fair that it's your turn to choose. If you back down and cater to her once again despite not wanting to eat there, then you've failed the test. You're showing her that she can always get what she wants with you. However to pass the test would be to handle it like a mature adult and tell her that you've made the sacrifices to eat what she wants, and this time you are going to eat at this other diner. You've passed the test by showing her that you aren't some chump with no backbone.

 

Yet another test could be when you meet a new girl at the bar. A lot of guys couldbe hanging all over her and fawning over her. She isn't telling herself, "I need to test these guys for one who doesn't crave my attention", but a guy who doesn't fawn over her, in fact even a guy who would tease her over something about herself and then walk away to talk to other people would be passing the test, showing that he has a higher self value than to throw himself at some girl who has a pretty face like these other losers hanging at her side rushing to please her. Those admirers failed the test while the guy who doesn't need her attention passed.

 

The passes and failures will help determine whether or not you will have earned her respect and interest or whether she will dimiss you as someone she's not interested in. These "tests" are very real and they happen all of the time. These are the tests that we refer to.

 

Of course there are conscious tests that some women do, such as the first "I love you" test to gauge your reaction, but most tests are subconscious.

 

I've had conversations with female friends, girlfriends, and family members over the years about similar subjects and the overwhelming response has been they have dated guys like this, who think like this, and they want nothing to do with such situations again.

 

I think you are talking about something completely different.

 

My philosophy is that if you guys are right for each other, a good fit in terms of values, viewpoints, sense of humor, similar relationship desires, etc. and you focus on treating her how you would like to be treated, things will come together and you will have a solid basis on which to build a fulfilling relationship.

 

A ton of people could be right for each other. There's not just one person that you could be right for. There are also situations where you were very compatable with someone but for some reason or another it didn't work out. Possibly situations beyond your control prevented it, or perhaps something you said or did or maybe something she said or did caused it to end. This is life. A lot of compatable people don't end up working out, so it isn't as simple as having a good fit in terms of values, etc. There could always be a miscommunication that caused a huge rift or caused things to change.

Understanding situations such as those "tests" when they arrive can only help you communicate in the most efficient way you can. It helps. People rarely trip and fall into a working relationship. They take work. The more you understand communication and the better you are at it then the better the chances you have of success. Surley you don't disagree? Don't get hung up on the word "test"

 

This situation isn't about "picking up chicks", it's about discovering a truth of your fit together. It is about that mindset. "This is me, that is you, this is us. What do you think?"

 

I think it is quite a bit more than this. This is why relationships require work, compromise, and effort. And no one said anything regarding this being about "Picking up chicks".

 

Genuine honesty in the beginning will lead you to the path to true intimacy or allow you to suitably exit the situation and open up possibility for a relationship with whom you can share true intimacy.

 

We've all agreed to this.

 

With that said, I believe if your mindset dictates a need to "change plans on the spot" and perceive a relationship and resulting happiness based on your "test results", you are in for an ultimately emotionally lonely life and one where you lose touch with what real intimacy with, and as such understanding of, a woman is.

 

This is further evidence that you are totally misunderstanding what we are talking about.

[Beec]

Genuine honesty in the beginning will lead you to the path to true intimacy or allow you to suitably exit the situation and open up possibility for a relationship with whom you can share true intimacy.

 

Whoever said one should be dishonest? Whoever said not to be genuine? I have not read that here.

 

I have read comments that are against "manipulation", but anyone who thinks they do not manipulate is kidding themself. Anyone who thinks a person wants to never be manipulated is also kidding themself.

 

If you have ever had anyone go out of their way to make you feel good and to seduce you, then you might have been lucky enough to have appreciated the effort and enjoyed it, and let them have their way. (If no one has done this for you, you have my apologies.) It's nice when it happens. And thereforeeee, sometimes, it is good when you are manipulated. Perhaps, we should rethink this idea about manipulation.

[friscodj]

Thanks for the compliments guys!

 

It would take me probably a full day of reading, thinking, and typing responses here to clarify/answer/refute comments, doing such would probably raise even more questions, and we wouldn't get anywhere.

 

Hopefully someone reading this will find something that speaks to them that they can use.

[Dating Coach]

So you're not going to acknowledge that you misinterpreted the point?

[heloladies21]

Thanks for the compliments guys!

 

It would take me probably a full day of reading, thinking, and typing responses here to clarify/answer/refute comments, doing such would probably raise even more questions, and we wouldn't get anywhere.

 

Hopefully someone reading this will find something that speaks to them that they can use.

Hey, that's cool, like I said I'm not looking to prove anything to you. What's in it for me, right? So I wish you continued success(?) in your relationships and feel free to spread your views. Just don't flame me in the process just because I know what I'm doing and it doesn't coincide with your idealized view of how relationships are supposed to be.

 

Stop flaming me in threads.

[HurleyBabe6917]

you sound like you did a great job.