No closure/ NC/ how long for his call?

[jamiek]

I've read a few times that if a man doesn't come back to you within eight weeks - it's over and not to comtact him, of course. It said that men can go on with their lives for four weeks and be fine and that it takes them 6 - 8 weeks to process a decision and possibly come back. I wondered if the men out there have any thoughts on this. My guy dumped me out of nowhere, earlier that night he was saying something about me being the way to his heart. Then later he said he wasn't prepared to be in a committed relationship and we should see other people - total shock to me. My guess is that I had been voicing more expectations recently (nothing huge, just normal things) and he got freaked / uncomfortable (meanwhile he is the one who wnated me so much and wanted more with me before). He fits the passive-aggressive personality and they resent expectations and they also pay you back if you hurt them (I for the first time, got angry over something that night and got very snotty with him). Or, he thought that I was going to break up with him so he did it first (it ws right after I began a conversation to talk about some things). I just don't know. This is my first time being dunmped - it's so hard and hurtfull especially when you never expected it in a million years from someone. I feel so betrayed and confused. It's been 3 weeks and I haven't heard from him at all. I thought I would. My friends say that I deserve to understand and knwo why and have closure and that I should ask for it but I'm so stubborn and still hope he'll call. We were together 5 months (he wasn't a good communicator). I wonder HOW LONG it usually takes men to realize, miss us .... ??? I know you would all say I shouldn't call. He's kind of insecure a bit and I wonder if he is afraid to call thinking I'm angry and will reject him? Help?

[Scout]

I've read a few times that if a man doesn't come back to you within eight weeks - it's over and not to comtact him, of course..

 

I heard the same thing, too. When I hadn't heard from my ex after about six weeks, I had a terrible sinking feeling.

 

So, I contacted him. And, we're talking and spending time with each other again.

 

Who knows. Maybe he heard the same thing about women.

[jamiek]

Thanks for your input. I feel like because he did it, he should call. It's so hard when you have no idea if they have fully decided it's over and are moving on or if they are missing you and feeling like they might call and just needed space. I'm so tired of thining about it and feeling angry/hurt. I do feel I deserve an explanation and that he is acting alike a complete jerk.

[shikashika]

Scout... I'm interested to hear your persepctive... who broke up with who? Why did you decide to break NC and contact him.

 

even though I shouldn't I really really want to contact my ex... but I know its bad... its been nearly 2 months since he broke up with me, like the OP said, with no real reason, and completely out of the blue.

 

 

I guess I feel if I contact him then I will never know if he really wants to be in touch with me or if he's just dong it to be nice..

but since I know him. I know he is a bit awkward shy not having a huge backbone..

but I feel like i"m disrespecting myself if I contact him.... or should I just swallow my pride...

[Scout]

Well, I won't go into the specific details of why he and I broke up, it's too embarrassing. Let's just say I behaved in a very bad way (nothing to do with cheating or anything like that). It freaked him out, and it was similar to two other incidents during our relationship. So, he said it was over. He wanted to say friends, but I didn't. To be honest, I felt that if I immediately did that, he'd never have the chance to miss me and regret his decision. In hindsight, he may have wanted to stay friends so that we stayed connected and could work on a reconciliation. And, I was also in "lick my wounds in private" mode. I just was in so much pain, I couldn't bear the idea of being "just friends." I needed some distance, myself, to think over everything that had happened.

 

I guess I would ask you both to search very deeply within yourselves and see if indeed you were dumped with "no clear reason." For me, I knew what the reason was. But, I also felt like you in that, since he dumped me, he should have an epiphany that he made a mistake, that he missed me - and beg for me back, lol.

 

(Well, as it turns out, he missed me. But, he wasn't sure he made a mistake. And, I had told him not to contact me. So, he respected that.)

 

Anyway, I just realized that I missed him a great deal - most importantly, I realized I missed him for the right reasons. Not just missed having a boyfriend. I missed who he was as a person...someone funny, kind, and interesting to be around. We had a pretty good history, too.

 

Still, with all this in mind, I was afraid to break NC. But a couple of people told me if I didn't do it soon, the gulf would just get too big between us. Too much time would pass by. That's what I was afraid of.

 

I finally broke NC with a simple email saying me and my dogs missed him and we'd like to see him. And I'd like to talk to him. He replied the next day, and we've been spending time with each other ever since. We're not officially back together, but we're rediscovering each other...and right now, that's really important to me. We've got all the time in the world to build a more solid foundation, is the way I'm looking at it. And having that attitude makes him (and me!) more relaxed and is also letting him see me in a brand new light.

 

I'm not going to lie, it's got its challenges and we've had some bumps in the road...but I'm also learning patience, empathy, and expressing how I feel in a more loving manner, instead of one that's defensive or accusatory. So, even if things don't ultimately work out in the sense we end up together forever, I'm learning priceless new things here. One of which, is that pride & ego are over-rated. (This sentiment is not to be confused with being a doormat or victim.)

[Scout]

Thanks for your input. I feel like because he did it, he should call. It's so hard when you have no idea if they have fully decided it's over and are moving on or if they are missing you and feeling like they might call and just needed space. I'm so tired of thining about it and feeling angry/hurt. I do feel I deserve an explanation and that he is acting alike a complete jerk.

 

In your situation, JamieK, I would honestly give it a couple more weeks. If you haven't heard from him by then, you could also send a simple, brief email, saying you miss him and would like to talk.

 

Something must have caused him consternation about your relationship. Or you. Think hard.

[shikashika]

thanks for sharing Scout!

 

I really have to decide what to do... I think its my pride...but at the same time I feel if he can't contact me then it can't happen..

 

When I was dumped... it came as a COMPLETE shock to me... and he just said, "yeah I don't think I'm nuts about you' while crying his eyes out... I guess I didn't know ( and still don't know) whether to believe him or not.. he has insisted (when we ran into each other very briefly) that there was no one else, and he just didn't want to date me. I wish I had known... was it something I did... am I too opinionated? Does he not like that I liek to go on trips by myself? is it because I dont' like going to movies?" and he couldnt' even say ANYTHING..

 

but I did tell him as soon as we broke up that I didn't want him to contact me, I wasn't going to contact him and we couldn't be friends... so he has been respecting that.

I guess I really don't know if he is just respecting that... and he WANTS to contact me ( I made it pretty clear I wanted nothing to do with him) or he really doesn't care one way or another..

[Scout]

Shikashika, I'm familiar with your situation, I've posted on one or two of your threads. In your case....well, I hate to say this...but I wouldn't contact him again. When someone tells you they don't think they were ever that into you, that's not a break-up reason one can be hopeful is enough to overcome for an eventual reconciliation. I think he was crying his eyes out when he said that to you because he felt bad he might have led you on by dating you for so long even knowing his feelings weren't strong enough.

 

It's definitely a sucky situation for you, but honestly...you sound like a pretty together gal. It could just be this guy wants certain qualities in someone that you don't have, or he doesn't want qualities that you do have. Not everyone is going to think we're the cat's meow.

 

Regarding JamieK's situation, the details she gives are very general, so I'm not sure what exactly led up to the break up. thereforeeee, I can't give my opinion yet if she should break contact. Also, not sure how long they dated, if they were officially "exclusive," etc.

[shikashika]

thanks Scout... I'm resisting the urge..

 

I know this may sounds snobby... and I don't even want to admit it out loud

 

But, sometimes I think... "wait HE dumped ME?!?!?'

 

I know its about the attraction, you got it or you don't..but it just seemed all along that he was more into it than I was, I was just seeing how it went along the way, and thought "yeah he's a nice guy'... it almost seemed as soon as I thought "yeah I DO really like him' he switched off.... and things went the other direction.

 

now I can read all the dating books I like, but when it comes down to it i find it hard to understand why things happened the way they did.

 

Everyone has their bad points or annoying traits, but it seems that some bad points and annoying traits are less forgiveable than others..

 

I constantly see friends and relatives of mine in relationships where jealousy, clingyness, neediness are an issue..but one partner understands that thats 'just how they are'

 

I've never been jealous, clingy, needy, had a bad temper, decietful...so I guess I just wonder, what it is about me that is causing these relationships to fail.

 

Are some 'bad traits' like being opinionated or sarcastic less forgiveable than being clingy and needy?

 

I'e never had a guy break up or (a friend that I fell in love with but didn't want me)with me because of arguments, neediness, jealousy, anger..

 

The answer has ALWAYS been "I dont' know I'm just not that into you"

 

Granted they could be lying, but 100% of the time, this is the answer I get.

 

i have a variety of interests, people tell me I'm attractive, I have my own hobbies and interests, and I love meeting a man who has his own passions and hobbies.

 

oh my ... I have totally hijacked this thread!!

 

so sorry!! OP..

[Scout]

I'e never had a guy break up or (a friend that I fell in love with but didn't want me)with me because of arguments, neediness, jealousy, anger..

 

The answer has ALWAYS been "I dont' know I'm just not that into you"

 

Granted they could be lying, but 100% of the time, this is the answer I get.

 

i have a variety of interests, people tell me I'm attractive, I have my own hobbies and interests, and I love meeting a man who has his own passions and hobbies.

 

oh my ... I have totally hijacked this thread!!

 

so sorry!! OP..

 

Why don't you start your own thread about this? This is rather unusual, to be honest, and really worth exploring. For 100% of the time this is the reason given to you. It might be a bit difficult to hear some of the answers you'll get, but at least some of them are likely to be honestly interested in helping you figure this out. Mine among them.

[jamiek]

Thanks Scout, I really appreciate it - it's nice to get feedback. We were dating 5 months and were together 3-4 days of the week and spent the night together each time, and yes we were exclusive (decided upon 5 weeks before the break up). I'm 35 and he's 38. It seemed like slowly but surely we were getting closer and had a playful/nice relationship overall. He seemd happy when with me and was always very affectionate - hugging and kissing me. Like the other girl said, for a while he was more into me and I finally gave in more and liked him more. You said my details were general but that's bnecause there's not much specific to comment on until that night. As I said, he does fit the passive-aggressive behavior type (who can't communicate, can't express their anger, aren't forthcoming w/ emotions, and has an over-controling mother, and they resent expectations as they feel it is controling and belitttles them). I could tell he felt a lot for me and really liked being with me. He said when he ended the committment that he really liked spending time with me and he thought we had a good thing but he had been thinking for weeks he wasn't "prepared" to be in a committed relationship again (which I had no indication of, again earlier that night he hugged and kissed me and said I was the way to his heart??). His last long-term relationship w/ a control freak ended last December but it hurt him. He agreed to being exclusive and when I mentioned it during the break up, he said "I wanted to be" and that's it - nothing more (he can't communiate). After breaking up w/ me he was rubbing my arm with the back of his fingers and then tried to kiss me on the mouth (I turned away). He did say he still wanted to see "where it goes" but I said I didn't know how to go backwards and if so there would be no sex - he said he knew that. So, I never really answered whether I would agree to still see him. He said "this is hard for both of us" it was such a shock. Before he left I said "Why are you doing this, I fel like you're not being honest about something, this is out of nowhere" and he dropped his head and quietly repeated his statement that he had been thinking it for a few weeks adn wasn't prepared. I asked him earlier if it was about his feeling sfor me and he said no. I asked if there was someone else he wanted to date adn he said no and that he was faithful. I think it was either because 1) he got cold feet/uncertain w/ some new expectations that I posed (again, minimal ones like being clear on wkend plans, asked about spending more time on certain wkend days and proposed going for a wkend getaway - local)...)) 2) he got freaked/angry because I, for the first time, got angry and yelled at him that night (which makes me think I should contact him in this case) or 3) he thought I was going to do it and he was scared and did it first (which also makes me think I should contact him in this case). The worst thing is, that this happened on a Saturday night (after we got in bed) and Monday morning he was on an on-line dating site and had been active within 24 hrs every day uintil today. I saw him on for so lnog at night. It was like a knife to my heart. I got back on too (stupid but I was hurt). But you had said "But a couple of people told me if I didn't do it soon, the gulf would just get too big between us. Too much time would pass by. That's what I was afraid of. " and that is what I'm afraid of?? Is this possible? I's been 3 wks, how logn shoudl I wait? Help! thnx

[Scout]

Ok, one thing I have FINALLY learned (and I'm 37 - I JUST learned this!!), is that yelling freaks guys out. Even one time. IT FREAKS THEM OUT.

 

Actually, being yelled at would freak you out, too, if you think about it.

 

Think about it...you two agreed on exclusivity...soon afterward, you asked for more time together, more advanced planning on dates. When he hedged, you yelled. (At least that's what I'm assuming.)

 

Now, from his point of view, he could have thought exclusivity meant you two aren't going to see other people. Not necessarily ramp up the amount of time you spend together. So, his expectations of "exclusivity" were different from your own. I hate to say this, but the fact is, exclusivity doesn't mean you see more of each other. It just means you don't see other people. So, when he said, "I'm not prepared for a committed relationship" what he probably wanted to add but didn't was, "When it involves unexpected demands and yelling."

 

Another poster on another thread brought up a great point just now. It's not about how many times you see each other. It's about if you two are really "with each other" when you spend time together. Does that make sense? If you really think about it, if you can trust that your significant other cares about you enough to spend quality time with you, you'll stop measuring your relationship in terms of how much time you spend together. Don't forget, people who fairly quickly jump into spending almost every evening/day with each other can also get burned out faster. It's akin to building a longer-lasting fire by gently blowing on the flames, rather than dumping a whole bunch of branches on it in the hopes it will burn even brighter...it might...but it also creates a lot of ashes real fast that can smother and put a fire out!

 

At this point in my advice to you, I'm going to request the big guns to weigh in - DN! He gave me life-transforming advice in my situation, and he might have a better idea of how you should proceed. My inclination is to suggest you send your guy an email stating that you've been thinking about him, and miss hanging out, and suggest you get together sometime.

 

And if he says yes, just have a good time with him. If he agrees to hang out once, and you two have a good time...just like the first days of your relationship...I'm almost positive he'll suggest getting together again, if not that night, then a few days later. And then I would say you should just keep having good times with him. If everything is consistently good for some time...a few months...you stand a good chance of getting things back on track, but this time, you'll be patient enough to let things unfold at a leisurely pace. The interesting thing about having this attitude, is the other person often increases the pace on their own. There's a quote from Sex and the City I love: "Sometimes, when you have your needs met, you find you don't really have those needs anymore."

 

But...let's see if DN has some different or added insight to this.

[jamiek]

Hi Scout. Thanks for advice. I didn't yell at him b/c of not spending time together or meeting my expectations (I actualyl, honestly was very calm, mature andnice about those things and acepted whatever his response was). I yelled at him (for the first time) because we were at a concert and he had us take seats that weren't ours (better ones) and then I realized I lost my purse and when asking him to go with me to find it at the picnic area he didn't want to because he didn't want to lose the seast. It really upset me. I realized my friend had it and didn't knoe where she was sitting (it's a huge place) and he knows I have crappy vision. So I said in a very * * * * *y tone "You knw about my vision, I'll ask Sheryl because she understands" - that was what I meant by the yelling episode. AS for the time together stuff, it wasn't often or big pushes - suggested going to Palm Springs b/c I had access to my friends condo for example. Which he agreed to do but then it was like pulling teeth to get a date (to tell my friend when we'd be therE). I told if he didn't want to to just tell me it's ok but I just wanted to know. I wonder if he has problems w/ intimacy and closeness. I didn't come out and say we need to spend more time together, just suggestions. But you could be right. Still, he wasn't straight forward with me and since he didn't even officially end it, it's hard to believe I haven't heard from him. Also the on-line dating thing really bothered me - unbelievable. He was really active every day. He hasn't been "active" in three days" and I wonder if he's met someone - already (how could someone get involved again that quickly) or if he was using it as a distraction/denial or whatever adn got burned out/bored of it and may now be realizing what he did?? Should I write or leave a nice vocie mail ?? Also, I still have his garage remote. I could just leave a message saying I'd like to get it back to him and talk.??

[Scout]

jamie...reading your post, it seems you behaved reasonably all the time, and he over-reacted. It seems you did nothing wrong, and he's misread everything.

 

It *seems* this way based on your posts.

 

Is it really?

[jamiek]

next post is a reply to this - thanks so mcuh

[jamiek]

I don't believe anyone never does anything wrong. I don't mean to sound that way. I believe my tone regadring the purse was not nice and it probably did freak him out. I just feel that it was prety crappy/hurtful of him to not want to help me out. Maybe I shouldn't have brought up going away or hanging on Sundays - I don't know. I do think he still could have adressed these things instead of just dumping me. But again he isn't good w/ communicating (which I noticed early on). Also Scout, he asked me to meet his sister (he's very close to her) 5 wks into dating and I couldn't and aplogized nicely and said another time. I had plans but it seemed too soon for me. Then after being exclusive he has me meet his neice and nephue but never again asks me to meet hsi sister (even after in an e-mail I wrote once "Have a great time at your sisters tonight, I'd love to meet her someitme". Several times (even for Rosh Hashanah) he told me right to his face that he was going to his sisters adn that was it. On Sundays he'd drop me off sometimes and say he was "going to his sisters". It was really hurting me. At the same time he'd be hugging and kissing me...???

[Scout]

Ok, one thing I had an epiphany about today myself: some things that I hold onto as deep hurts (in some cases, small slights) are very insignificant compared to the positives a person has done for me.

 

At the concert, I can understand your aggravation, because I have very poor vision, too. Seriously. I wear HARD contact lenses! If your boyfriend doesn't have poor vision, he might not have understood just how really bad your own is. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been nice if he would have readily agreed to help you, but on the other hand, he was on a date WITH YOU at a concert, and scored some good seats for you two, to boot.

 

Listen, boyfriends are gonna irk us from time to time, and we gals certainly irk our boyfriends. Do you think there were times you might have been irritating...yet, he didn't choose to respond unpleasantly?

 

We really have to pick and choose very carefully what we get upset about. Or rather, pick and choose very carefully what we show we're upset about.

 

As for meeting his sister, the positive is he invited you once. You declined. It was up to him when he felt good about giving you another invitation. That wasn't a personal slight. Remember, he was also WITH YOU those Sundays, too, before he went to visit family. Sounds to me like he really liked you, made time for you, etc. Just because it wasn't for every time or occasion you wanted, doesn't mean he didn't enjoy being with you.

 

When you said it was like pulling teeth to get a date with him set for that trip, what exactly do you mean? And how did you react to that? Did you show irritation and aggravation?

[DN]

Let me ask a question that is the bottom line to any situation like this. Think carefully before you answer.

 

What do you want from him?

 

If you say 'closure' then I will ask you - are you sure?

 

Or do you really want him back.

 

That requires you be totally honest with us and more importantly with yourself.

 

What do you really want?

[jamiek]

I wasn't ready to end the relationship yet. I would still like to try to wrok things out with him. But if he doesn't want that, I at least want to understand why he did what he did so that I can feel some sense of closure to move on. I'm just not really sur what to do at thsi point. I know my story was long. Thanks.

[jamiek]

Scout, thanks for your thoughts. Sorry this is sooo long. ings it was like pulling teeth b/c I had to bring it up more than once (after he agreed to go) and then I said "If you don't want to go it's fine, but if you do I need to give the date" he then FINALLY got his calendar and ambiguously said "I have things the next few weekends", I asked what and there wasn't much (that answer really annoyed me too) - one "thing" was the cable guy!! He then said he could reschedule it, finally he picked a weekend 3 wks away. My response was fine, I just said the above and finally got a date, it wasn't an argument or anything. It's just annoying - it's the passive-aggressive stuff (ambiguous, non-communicative, resent expectations). It's like dealing with a 10 yr old sometimes and it is frustrating. He resents his mom majorly still, she is over-controling (which they say is the root of the "PA" stuff). Last I knew he was on wk 5 of not talking to her and said 6 wks was their max. I'm not trying to point fingers, but he fits everything I've read about them and I detected it early (one wkend after dating about a month, he blew me off the whole wkend and when I asked several times if he was mad he said no, FINALLY he admitted he was b/c I didn't initiate plans enough). I asked him if we could please be open about these things from now on and he said "that's fair." You're right about choosing our battles and not over-reacting. I think part of the reason I snapped at him about the purse was becasue I was already feeling angry at him for other things that occurred during the week and didn't get to talk to him about yet (the Palm Springs stuff, his ambiguous answers about it, the non-invitation for Rosh Hashanah, he asked me to come over that past Thursday twice the week before and then when I wrote an e-mail that Thurs. morning asking if he still wanted me to come over he wrote that he may be seeing his cousin Danielles fiance' and he'd let me know later??). I replied not to worry about it b/c my friend invited me (which was me being PA but I was so annoyed). All of these things in one week built up (and they're the things I wanted to talk about after the concert - that I began talking about when we got in bed when he cut me off and stated he wasn't prepared to be committed). I started that conversation by saying "David, I have been feeling angry the past week and I feel like we should talk about what we want and what we don't want and see if they line up or maybe just vent". I then brought up the Thursday thing and he did the passive-aggressive "I didn't remember" asnwer, which my e-mail said "are we STILL on" and that implies we had plans. Anyway, that's about when he cut in and dropped it on me. I asked during the break up talk about why he hadn't asked me to meet his family and he said b/c he wasn't sure where it was headed - that really upset me, because again, this guy always seemed very into me when we were together - even doting at time. That hurt a lot to hear. That plus him saying he had been thinking about it for a few weeks just made me feel so betrayed - like I had been being so tricked/lied to. Thansk!!!!

[DN]

It is always a mistake to let pride dictate your actions in a relationship. It is also a mistake to project what you would do on to what you want your partner (or ex-partner to do).

 

So if you are thinking "He dumped me - he should be the one to call and my pride won't let me call him" then you are stuck.

Because he may have his pride and be thinking "I bet she is so mad she won't want to talk to me no matter what - and my pride can't take that rejection."

 

So what happens is that you are at an impasse and if you both secretly want to work things out you won't for the wrong reasons.

 

So I suggest you ignore what your pride is telling you to do and call him. Say that you are wondering if the relationship really should have ended under those circumstances and if he would like to talk about getting it back on track you would be up for that. Don't beg or grovel - that is not what I am suggesting. But I am suggesting you can give him an opening so that he can come to you if he wants to.

 

If he says no, then at least you know for sure where you stand and won't regret not doing all you could.

 

If he says yes, then you need to talk about what your expectations are of each other. Negotiate and compromise as much as possible so that you both can be happy.

[shikashika]

DN, this is why this is such a hard one... especially if both possibilities are a reality... so much is said on here about NC and not trusting your gut instinct... its quite difficult to know what to do. Wouldn't you say more often than not that the dumpee is thinking" but what if they are afraid to call me?"... and thats why some many of us dumpees break NC, and don't usually get what they are looking for?

[DN]

It is a case-by-case basis. NC is a concept - not a hard and fast rule. It is not a panacea but a something to help you heal.

 

But like all advice is has to be taken with caution. And if there is any reasonable doubt - emphasis on reasonable - that the relationship is truly over - then it is worth a small risk to open the door to opportunity.

 

I recently pressed someone to contact the person who dumped them because, based on the description of the break-up, I thought the dumper may have acted in the heat of the moment. The dumpee resisted that advice for a long time but eventually contacted the dumper. They are now in the process of getting back together. The dumpee took a risk - a very real risk - of being rejected and hurt. But it was worth it.

 

It would still have been worth it even if the dumper had rejected. Because then it would have been absolutely clear that the relationship was gone for good.

 

I do not advocate contacting if there is no reason to and caution against manufacturing hope from nothing. But if the break-up was in any way equivocal - then take that one chance and risk the hurt.

 

And lose the pride - it won't serve you.

[shikashika]

I like what you say here... of course, i may not get an answer at all.. but I guess that will be my answer

 

i have had only one run-in with my ex and he said, " i thought i wasn't supposed to contact you!"... so i know he is respecting my wishes

[Scout]

Shikashika, DN's giving some solid advice here, but as he said, it's a case by case basis. For JamieK's situation, it seems like DN's advice would be practical to follow. For your situation, as I already said, the guy broke up with you because he said he never really had the feelings he should have. Your scenario is a bit different from JamieK's. In general, that's a pretty hard break up reason to overcome...when they simply just don't have the strong feelings needed to be exclusive.

 

Are you doubting that he really meant that, and think he broke up with you for some other reason? I'm a little concerned that you may get hurt and disappointed if you contact him.