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nice guy syndrome... need Rx!!!


nemo_lost
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First off, I'm looking for posts by guys who have been able to kick this disease to the curb, but ladies please chime in as well. I'm 26, recently moved into a city, and I'm having trouble getting girls to stay interested... I'm determined that I have Nice Guy syndrome (and I can't believe there aren't more threads about this on this forum!). Please help!

 

I have learned that looks aren't really that imporant to girls... sure, maybe initally, but that changes depending on how they size you up. To elaborate on my example, girls often do double-takes with me and ask their friends who I am. I make a good living so $$$ isn't the issue. I've nailed down the Nice Guy issue becuase I think women expect me to be an from my appearance, then when I'm all "gentlemanly" with them they totally lose interest. I'm often told that I'm nothing like people expect... my best guess is that I come off as mysterious, but once I make a move or open my mouth that whole persona is chattered.

 

My question is... how do you kick the habit!?!?!? The first things that come to mind are walking up to girls and grabbing their asses (in essense to be more of a jerk)... but it's clear to me that isn't the right solution.

 

Is it true that if I don't show interest she will be captivated? IF that's the case, then how do you ask girls out? I mean, isn't that showing interest? Did I just kill the vibe? How do you ask a girl out without being sweet about it? So confused. HELP!!!

 

- Nemo

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Do you really want a girl that likes guys that are jerks. There plenty of women in this world that don't like the male chauvinist pig act and actually want a nice guy. Think about what you're asking, do you want a girl that has self respect, intelligence, and respects you for who you are or do want the girl that lets guys treat her poorly or only likes you because you're a "bad boy". Maybe you don't need to change at all, maybe its the women you seek out are shallow. If you do kick the "Nice Guy" habit, what will that really mean about you as a person, that you can reduce women to sexual objects and treat them poorly or that you have no respect or consideration for others or better yet why not just start grabbing butts (which is sexual assault and any guy that did that to me at a bar would immediately be introduced to the bouncers).

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Maybe there's a medical treatment for the disease you have.

 

I've read lots of threads here on niceness as a handicap, but the best was started by tylercdurden2004:

 

 

That thread had some good points despite some lapses into polemics.

I believe men should be genuine, and not acting to attract a spouse, since she's stuck with you after the act is over.

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Great question, and good for you on trying to kick the bad habit. As for what not to do, it's hard to specifically diagnose without seeing you in action or hearing something more specific, like an actual instance or example. Your words could be fine, but the way you say it might be off. A lot comes through in the delivery, eye contact, vocal tone, body positioning. If you think it is the material specifically, I'd recommend checking out some of the videos at link removed. He's a legend in the community and has a very tight style. He's got an ebook too, but I have yet to finish it.

 

I use a teasing flirty style laced with sexual innuendo a la Austin Powers/Howard Stern. Watch those movies or listen to his show to get more of an idea of the types of jokes I'm talking about.

 

If you want some more resources, go to

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The first things that come to mind are walking up to girls and grabbing their asses (in essense to be more of a jerk)... but it's clear to me that isn't the right solution.

 

Is it true that if I don't show interest she will be captivated? IF that's the case, then how do you ask girls out? I mean, isn't that showing interest? Did I just kill the vibe? How do you ask a girl out without being sweet about it? So confused. HELP!!!

Lol yeah you probably don't want to go a grabbin, but completely hiding your interest isn't what we're looking for. It's more like an exponential curve. Real slow at the beginning but gets cranked up over time. First you have to get her attracted to you without showing her your interest. Then once she's attracted, she needs to get you attracted to her. It's like dance steps and follows a progression.

 

As for asking a girl out, usually "What are you doing later today/this week?" usually gives them the idea. If they don't pick up on it, you can suggest it in a way "What do you have goin on X day? Let's go and do XXX."

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Ok, for starters Nemo - dont listen to ANY women about this. They all think that they want a really nice guy, but they dont know what they want...

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You are still allowed to be nice, but always put yourself first (to an extent, of course). If you dont like something, tell the girl to stop it. Dont buy her drinks etc.

Umm...

Check this out: link removed

As for kicking the habit, its only going to change with practice. Good luck

 

And another article...

link removed

 

Happy reading :sleeping:

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OK, for starters Nemo - dont listen to ANY women about this.

I cannot disagree with this statement. Some of the worst advice I've gotten and seen given has come from women. It's not because of bad intentions, but just simply that what a girl ideally wants and what she responds to are very different things. Ie. most girls say they don't want a jealous guy (in general) and will complain if he gets that way, but if a guy never gets jealous she'll think you don't care. If you do occasionally (and when warranted) get jealous, she might complain but she'll be interested in you.

 

It's not that girls don't like nice guys, it's some of the things that nice guys do push them away so these need to be eliminated. It's not that chicks like jerks overall, it's that they do some things that attract chicks. You need to take a hard look at what you do, eliminate the bad traits and learn the good ones. Post one of your recent encounters, give us some details and we'll be able to diagnose you accurately.

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Maybe I'm different but I can see how a woman's advice might not always be too clear. To say.. I want a nice guy is not detailed enough. I'll tell you EXACTLY what attracts me.

 

A guy who is confident, manly (there is such a thing as too nice, bordering on whimpy), and in my case, I must admit that if a guy starts out as a friend, without using his 'manly charm' to try and seduce me from the start, then he is classified as a friend and that's where he'll stay. I've had a bunch of guy friends, many of which I would later find out developed or all along had a crush on me, but that was too late for me.

 

I will NOT put up with a jerk, there is a BIG difference between the 'too nice guy' who has no clue and a jerk.. like in everything else there is a continuum. There is a happy medium. If a guy is not man enough to come up to me and show me he's interested I won't even bother. However there is a way to approach a woman. Don't be too eager or look desperate, and if your hands are clammy with nervousness dont try to shake her hand. It's just yucky. Just being brutally honest here. But show you are interested. Showing a woman you are into her and that you like what you see is very appealing. Just be cool, use your masculinity to the max. That is the difference, for me anyway, between what attracts me and what does not. I am very feminine, and look for a masculine man who will treat me with respect and be very nice to me, but not a doormat or an insecure guy that can't take rejection. Be strong. Be a male. Oh and a 'nice guy' that suddenly decides to become a jerk thinking that'll work, that's not the answer. You'll just look like the little nice guy who got fed up and flipped. It'll just be kinda funny. Just be the man that you are, have respect for yourself and others. Be nice but not a wimp. Simple as that.

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To NemoLose, CarnelianButterfly, Brokenwingedfaery, and to anyone else who implied this and/or suggested that this is an actual problem:

 

Women do not want to date jerks!

 

Just because the guy says he is a "Nice Guy" and that girls aren't warming up to him doesn't mean that in order to change his success that he needs to be a "jerk". This misconception is so old and we've gone over this a billion times. Women don't want jerks, or at least "datable women" don't. If a rare circumstance has a girl like this, run for the hills, but 99.9% of the time this is not the case, it's only a common misconceptions.

 

Nemo, your problem isn't that women want jerks, your problem is how you are coming off to these women. I can't get too specific on you because you didn't provide details but I can post a little synopsis about a book entitled: The Tyranny of Niceness. Read this and see if you may fit the bill:

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To NemoLose, CarnelianButterfly, Brokenwingedfaery, and to anyone else who implied this and/or suggested that this is an actual problem:

 

Women do not want to date jerks!

 

Nemo, your problem isn't that women want jerks, your problem is how you are coming off to these women.

 

 

Problem, DiggityDogg, is that the remedies offered by the "fastseduction" and "askmen" gurus and their minions are quick and easy. The loudmouths touting their slogans come accross as "confident" to the guys who're looking for solutions and =know= they're lacking something. Kinda sad, but everyone gets through the day as well as he can.

 

The real solutions proposed by you and Ms. Sommers require the ability to take a hard look at oneself, and then so much work and personal growth. Who wants =that=?

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"Pick up artists" have to get a new woman into bed to replace the one that fled after the act wore thin.

That's not the case. Just because a man has the ability to get a woman anytime he wants doesn't mean he always uses it, has to use it, and has nothing to do with his ability to keep a woman. I'm not sure why he has to be villified because of his skill. And learning how to do is has very little to do with putting on a fake personality or using the canned lines, this information is the least helpful, but that's not all that's on these sites. I read them only as examples and think up my own. The most important thing I read is about how to effectively communicate what I truly feel to girls, to understand how it comes accross to them and make sure I say it in a way in which they will understand. It's like learning a foreign language. Also I've changed how I percieve the interaction between men and women. So much of what I've studied has to do with only my perception only.

 

But even if your statement were true, it sure beats going camping alone on the weekends.

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This is true, and what that book by Ms. Sommers was talking about was how the "Nice Guy" is always quick to say, "but I don't like playing games" when in fact most of the game playing going on is by the "Nice Guy" because of his desperate need for approval.

 

I saw it just last night. My younger brother was trying to see what he could learn about guys and dating by creating a fake myspace profile of a beautiful young single girl. The guys flood in with all kinds of messages, and it's pretty easy to tell the "nice guys" apart from the so called "players".

I got on and was reading/responding to some of these messages just to test reactions and such and while I found the "players" to be the most annoying, it was them who were the most honest. They were direct, they were aggressive, and they made it very obvious what they were looking for. However the "nice guys" sent out messages that were very... weak. They never say nor hint that they are interested in dating or seeing if they were compatable, instead they tried to "chat". They tried to "talk". They try to sneak in close by a very hesistant and unassuming message. That's kind of what Ms. Sommers was alluding to in that book.

 

I even took it a step further. I insulted every guy who sent out a message, and these "nice guys" completely buckled under the pressure, backpedaled, and apologized for their message. They apologized! Here it was me being a total "beotch" to them for no reason at all and they apologized. Were they being "Nice"? No, they were masking their true feelings and continued to seek my approval by apologizing and excusing themselves when they did nothing wrong.

 

This delves into the real problem with "Nice Guys" and it's their need for approval and the games that they play. It's a game of being deceptive in order to gain approval. The so called "players" were aggressive, rude even, but they were far more honest in their intentions.

 

I believe there is another way to go about it, and that is to be a good person, but to be someone who could care less about the approval of others. That person wouldn't have apologized for IMing a cute girl who was rude to him. He would either ignore it or make it fun by turning it around on her and giving her some trouble in return. Im not talking about fighting, but a skilled level of flirting.

 

Anyway, I am getting a bit off here but I simply find it funny when people dismiss sites or advice that tries to help guys improve their approaching techniques because there is a lot of good advice there that does not consist of compromising who you are. There are plenty of tips in there for improving your communication skills and that's what these "Nice Guys" seem to lack. They have a problem communicating their true feelings due to their need for approval-which stems from low self confidence and lack of experience. I hesitate to say "shyness" because that's more of a lack of experience. Shyness can be overcome if you practice.

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"Pick up artists" have to get a new woman into bed to replace the one that fled after the act wore thin.

 

Dude frankly I'm in the game for love and I use most "tactics" that PUAs use. I've read the stuff and made it a part of me. Saying that is an insult. I'm just able to choose who I want. If she isn't cool she's gone and I know I'll find another who may be better. I use it to make my LOVE life better not my sex life.

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"Great question, and good for you on trying to kick the bad habit."

 

BAD HABIT? How is attempting to not be a jerk a bad habit?!

 

To be fair that is not what heloladies was saying. He was saying good job in trying to kick the habit of being the "Nice Guy". By "Nice Guy" he means being the guy that always end up being the friend-which happens because of many mistakes he has been making that continually land him there. He does not need to be a jerk, he merely needs to correct the wrong signals that he's been sending out-and it's good that he's trying to learn.

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I disagree with both of you.

 

What do you disagree with? No is telling this guy to treat women poorly. We are just saying you can't let women walk all over you. A man has to be caring and take care of his women. If she does something that he disapproves of then he has all the right to get mad at her.

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"Great question, and good for you on trying to kick the bad habit."

 

BAD HABIT? How is attempting to not be a jerk a bad habit?!

??? You're misunderstanding the whole thread. He's already a nice guy with a good heart and nobody's looking to change that. Reread my post, I said that nice guys have some bad tendancies that turn women off and we're looking to stop those and jerks have some attractive qualities and we're trying to teach him those.

 

Nobody said anything about trying to turn him into a jerk overall. Lying, cheating, abusing, these are all bad traits that jerks have and those won't be taught. But jerks don't hold their feelings inside, nice guys often do. Jerks have no problem being somewhat possessive and jealous and thereforeeee showing a girl they care about them, nice guys don't do this a lot.

 

Nice guys will accept abuse, jerks don't. Nice guys will often try and overprovide for a chick as a way to get a chick. Sometimes a jerk does this too, but guys should just learn to stay away from this in general. Nice guys will pretend to be nice and will come off fake to girls because of it. Jerks don't do this. Does this make sense now?

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Jerks have no, I repeat, NO attractive qualities, imo. Jealousy DOESN'T show a well-adjusted female that you care, neither does possessiveness. There's nothing I'm misunderstanding, I simply disagree with your opinions.

 

These things have been proven by many people, including myself. I was a "nice guy" and it got me no where. Now I'm a "Gentleman" and I'm attracting girls everywhere. Nothing was said about being a jerk. (See diggitydog's sig. If you want to know where the quotes are from.)

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