Jane0815

"Interesting", in what way? Do I come accross as a man-hater? What's an "old-fashioned feminist guy"?

We've had some practical stuff to take care of, but that was way too much contact. I start hoping for a little touch of warmth, and he keeps focusing on himself. Ack.

LOL! I don't disagree that you =deserved= an explanation, nor that you should be treated fairly, nor that she was wrong. You're on the money there. But the way you handled it COULD be detrimental to your future there. It's possible to take the high road in a way that enhances your power; you took the weak approach. You're 24 - I think you'll have to be burned by "taking the high road loudly" a time or two before you get what NJRon is saying here. Maybe he can recommend one of those asian business-wisdom booklets for you.

When do you start? Rodeo-Rider gave super pointers. Unfortunately when I'd just finished school I didn't UNDERSTAND "dress appropriately" - There's a great book about temping ... written by a guy who was a grad student in English, I think. He has EXCELLENT tips about gaining acceptance, getting up to speed on skills etc. Check Amazon. Oh - AVOID going to lunch with anyone from your new workplace, if you can help it. There are people in almost every office who try to make friends of newcomers, and they're not going to make you look good. A positive-constructive way around this, from the book I mentioned, is to set up your lunch breaks so that you meet employed friends of yours working in the area. The author says that this helps with internal acceptance - when people ask what you did for lunch, and you can say "I met up with a friend of mine who's an ad editor at X-Agency", they see that you're in the game, that you have a network.

Well, I had a boss from the UK who was very turned off whenever he got the impression that someone expected a chance b/c of their degree. I got the job there 'cause I was freelancing and one of his minions gave me a project and I did well and ended up getting a job offer and submitting my CV as a formality AFTER being hired. I'm not saying you're presenting yourself wrong - just that a reader's own insecurities COULD get in your way and there's nothing you can do about that. What I'd suggest now is that you do some menial work in the evenings and volunteer in a relevant organisation during the mornings. Work out the money situation so you're not under too much pressure there, then work on your self-marketing. Right now you just need to get contacts and raise your chances of encountering people who will become interested in you BEFORE seeing your CV.

Don't go with a publication yet. Too much capital and marketing involved. I have an idea for you. Will activate my messaging here so you can PM me if you'd like. (No, I'm not going to scam you with an envelope-stuffing scheme! Just don't feel like putting the idea out there for EVERYone when this thread is about YOU.)

NJRon is right here ... you might have 'won' the battle for the position you have now, but you 'lost' against her b/c you made an issue out of something she'll never change. Better would have been to figure out what she wanted and if there was a way to help her get it. Yes, get everything in writing from now on! I make the same mistakes in airing too much critical honesty. Less and less, but still too often. Heh, I should hire NJRon as my shut-up-and-smile coach.

Ah, well, I think you've got a bit of either/or thinking going on there. The others here have rounded it out a bit for you. Right now I seem to meet a lot more men than I did in my 20s. Most of them are ready to settle down and start families, which isn't what I want. Have you heard of the third-date rule? These guys aren't in any hurry for sex - the third date is when they introduce a woman to mommy.

I haven't seen that thread, but I think I know what you're talking about. Here's the thing I suspect you're not clicking with, as far as the feelings of entitlement go: Historically women haven't had much power or influence in relationships. Material indications of the man's attachment to / interest in them were pretty much all they got. This is unfortunately still true in many cases. Not just from the woman's side. I've met MANY men who expected me to give up pretty much everything I've worked for on my own and they truly think that a few presents of jewelry or dinners out - neither of which I've accepted - will do it for me. They presume that being part of their life will make me happy, since the "old deal" says that women need men materially, and they're doing well materially, and thus I should be honored at their interest, which they demonstrate with expensive invitations etc. Sorry, this will NEVER do it for me. If a man is interested in me, I think he'll indicate this by SHOWING interest in spending time with me, in asking what's going on in my life, in thinking of activities that =I= enjoy. (I do all of these things for friends - I'm not expecting a romantic interest to do any more than a friend does.) So when men don't realize that women have their own interests, that women are people who need the same fulfillment (through work, achievement, etc) that men do, and when men expect women to be happy with the "old deal", women who stay in the game tend to demand dinners out, jewelry, flowers, all the old-deal standards. When it goes sour, women fight back in the only way they know: they go after his money. After all, this was his main language for demonstrating his interest in her, and often really the only thing he'd offered her. Generally the woman gets less materially out of an "old deal" relationship than she'd have earned and accumulated on her own. Not all women are like this. But frankly ... those of us who aren't interested in 'stuff' are a lot more complicated. I've gotten pretty cynical about old-deal type guys, especially b/c their math is so wrong. They're the ones who'll come by for dinner and out of "duty" finish what you'd planned as leftovers to take for lunch the rest of the week. Then they complain that you cooked too much. This kind of guy will pick you up to go to his friends' birthday party, and presume he can select wine from my cupboard to bring as his gift, since he was too busy to find something. He'll think nothing of you getting up at 4 AM on a Saturday to drive him to a relative's funeral 7 hours away b/c he's exhausted and can't drive, and then driving him back, and he'll be extremely offended the next weekend when you ask for a few hours of help with something work-related. You know what? When a guy shows interest in me now, I now immediately ask him about something in his field that's relevant for my work or for someone I know. If he acts helpful in any way, I feel like he's interested in =me=. If he brushes it off and asks if I'd like to go out for dinner and to the theater, you know what? I'm not interested. Friends say that this is horribly superficial and demanding of me, and the same friends would have NO problem with me accepting an evening out, that would probably cost the guy a few hundred if I let him pay the entire bill. (I don't - my parents taught me to never let a guy pay.) You can figure out which women want old-deal relationships by not spending much money in the first stages of getting to know someone. The focus should be on the quality of time spent together.

Can only ditto the above advice. "Wanting to stay friends" can also be some women's way to break off the social-obligation part of the relationship without having to give up the 'benefits'. Kind of unfair to the guy who actually wants to get back together and takes this as a sign of interest.

Glad Crazyaboutdogs beat me to making that point. I've seen a =lot= of this in the 20s and early 30s as well. Guest 12345678 is on the money with his assessment that some women have even more than you do, and his suggestion of a prenup is good for everyone. Mr. Right, this trust is worth a heck of a lot. A few years ago, a therapist told my x and me basically the same thing you were told: our personalities and characters were so entirely different, there was no sense in making things work. Well, that trust was there, still is. It's worth a heck of a lot, and neither of us has found it in others since. He has a job that sounds like it makes a lot of money, and a lot of women brought expectations and put pressure on him that made my support of him during hard times dazzle in comparison. What about living-together-apart? Lots of couples - even some with kids - live in different houses or different cities and have excellent relationships. Check out a book called _Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay_ by Mira Kirshenbaum. (Pretty sure on author's name, but check.)

Ah boy you've been "missing out" on some of the churches out there ...

The church thing is what you should stay away from. If you PM me the name of the church she goes to, I can see what denomination etc. it is. Rule of thumb: If it's just warm-fuzzy southern baptist or something, she's allowed to have fun. If it has the name "Bible" in it, stay away.

Sounds good then. BUT keep in mind, a clinic is a good resource if you're in doubt. They're staffed by qualified medical professionals (and well-trained volunteers) - and for all you know, we're just overcaffeinated middle-school-dropout cons surfin' the net on break from chain-gang duty.

2) Does marriage counseling work if he thinks the marriage is practically dead but he is willing to show up for an appointment? Guess I missed this before ... depends actually on the counselor and approach, to some degree. I sent X to a counselor whose workshop I'd attended once. I'd pretty much resigned by then, had moved out with the very thinly-veiled excuse of a project ... in another country. Was sick of being blamed for his ill-at-ease in his own skin, so I told him he needed to go to learn to protect himself from my problems. His motivation: to get her to talk me into having a baby. Ah, well, she was a real shut-up-and-change kind of counselor and was indeed very helpful. He did several sessions alone, got woken up on a lot of levels, then decided it was my turn to get yelled at. Did it "work", eh well ... in the joint sessions she still yelled at him a lot more than she yelled at me. Thanks for the book link Camb. Is Lee Hugh's brother?