Do Boys suck or not? MAKE YOUR CASE!

[Frajhav]

....omg im notiven going to read the rest of this dam post....most guys are * * * hole but i been dedicating all my freaking life not to be one and it makes me mad how indirectly im draged along...but i dont care i got my first GF and we are bouth happy and she trust me couse she KNOWS IM HONEST AND I WILL NEVER EVER CHEAT ON HER OR HURT HER,i rather stab myself first!

[ShySoul]

If you can't laugh at silly and absurd or pointless things, and find the laughter in things, the world gets to be a depressing place. I've always been told I'm too serious about things, contemplative and serious by nature. So I've had to force myself into laughing more. Unfortunately now I worry I'm becoming a clown, and clowns are just evil. Maybe if I aim to be a jester.....

 

Anyway, I've learned from experience that if we can't laugh and make fun of ourselves, we just end up driving ourselves crazy and depressed. But like the saying goes, laugh and the world laughs with you.

 

Frajhav - I know where you are coming from. You've seen the way some men act. You've seen how hurt people get from it, especially women. So its easy to think of men as all jerks. It's what you've been exposed to, its what you know. But you shouldn't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch. You are a good guy. I am too (not to brag), and I know plenty of others. Try not to let the bad guys influence your opinion to much.

 

And good going on getting your first girlfriend. Enjoy it, there is nothing like love.

[DN]

Substitute 'black' for 'boys' or 'men' and see if it is as funny.

 

Boys and young men these days are subjected to a constant barrage of being told that they are stupid or idiots. From t-shirts saying 'boys are stupid - throw rocks at them", to advertisements showing men as stupid, incompetent, dirty, unable to comprehend of simple concepts, unable to dress themselves and choose their health products; to cartoons in the funny pages and TV sitcoms showing exactly the same thing. Thousands of youngsters are being drugged with Ritalin because they are supposed to be ADD when they are merely being themselves. They are told that they don't understand relationships, don't understand women and are driven by testosterone and their sexual urges rather than by their intellect.

 

It is deemed inoffensive and thereforeeee permissible to ridicule young males from the time they first hear the poem "What are little boys made of?" through to adulthood. There are kitchen knife blocks on sale so that women who have a grudge against men can enjoy themselves thrusting knives through various parts of the male anatomy - but "it's all in fun, it's just a joke. Don't take it to heart."

 

What is the result if all this harmless fun?

 

It is part of the reason why young men are dropping out of school in alarming numbers, why male enrollment in universities is also dropping. It is part of the reason for young men, particularly poor young men, feeling alienated and unappreciated. I live near Toronto where gang violence involving killing with guns is becoming a major problem and no small part of the cause for that is the constant barrage of misinformation aimed at denigrating them simply because they are males.

 

I have a seven year old grandson. He is bright, articulate and intelligent. He reads at an the level of an eleven year old, has good math skills and does well in all his classes. He is very popular (other kids compete to sit next to him at lunch). The other day we were looking after him and he was getting frustrated because he couldn't get something to work properly. He said "I am so stupid". My wife held him and told him he was not stupid. "Yes, I am." he said "All boys are stupid". So now we (his parents and us) have a task ahead of us - to counter all that information that has convinced him and his step-brothers and his friends that boys are stupid.

 

So you might think I am over-reacting to people who think they are making harmless jokes and think I should get a sense of humour. But I didn't get the joke when I heard my grandson say that - it wasn't at all funny.

 

What kids hear and see affects them more than we can imagine. Young girls suffer from anorexia and bulimia because of what they hear and see - this is exactly the same thing.

 

Some of you will have sons, now or later. Think about what you are doing next time you say, or write, that boys are idiots or are stupid. You may mean it as a joke - but you are doing harm by it.

[Shadows Light]

Trying to understand why my X-husband is the way he is I stumbled upon a few books a few years ago. You might want to have a read DN.. they go into more of what you are talking about.

 

The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell

 

A good read:

 

"Men who make their way through the interminable subtitle and embark on this orignal and significant study will find that they haven't lost the ability to cry after all. While some feminists may assert that it is an attack on women, the book attempts to show areas in which males operate at a disadvantage without claiming that women are responsible for their plight. Psychologist Farrell stresses economics, pointing out that the 25 worst types of jobs, involving the highest physical risk, are almost all filled by men. He also considers warfare, in which virtually all of the military casualties are men; the justice system, where sentences for males are customarily heavier; and sexual harassment, which has become a one-way street. He concludes with helpful advice on "resocializing" the male child, adolescent and adult. Clever cartoons enliven the text. "

 

 

Farrell also wrote the book: Why men are the way they are

 

"In a question-and-answer format, Farrell ( The Myth of Male Power , Audio Reviews, LJ 10/1/93) explains life from a man's perspective. If you've wondered why men find it hard to commit, why they provide solutions instead of empathy, why they can't just stop and ask directions, or why they spend so much time at work, this audiobook is for you. Farrell addresses the other side of sexism, asking why women, if they want equality, expect men to pick up the check at dinner. He explains the male experience of being a "success object" as well as explaining why men make women into "sex objects" to lessen the pain of rejection. The listener learns what men talk about with the "guys" and why vulnerability is so difficult for men to express. Farrell initiates a dialog that will contribute to an understanding and maybe even a truce between the sexes. Recommended for all contemporary collections."

 

-- Your grandson DN is fortunate to have loving and caring grandparents. When I was a gradeschooler, I did poorly on Algebra. I failed the course actually. My mother asked a friend of the family, who had an Engineering Degree, if would tutor me during the summer so I could master Mathmatics. What she was told, What I was told... "Oh don't worry about it. Girls usually don't do well in mathmatics. Their Brains arn't wired for it. They arn't suited to science or engineering. So if she fails mathmatics its no big deal." So, I can very well empathize with you.

 

Today... I work in sciences and chemistry. grin. Haven't mastered math but I didn't let it master me either.

[darkblue]

DN, that was rather powerful and moving.

A seemingly harmless comment can have drastic effects on others, and their self-esteem and their perceptions of what they are capable of.

 

I do believe that the media and society portray young men as single-cell organisms controlled by hormones and instincts - and it is wrong.

[smilelikeyoumeanit]

Wow, I was wondering how much contreversay my statement would cause. Even after I clarified my position, everyone else felt they had to do the same. But no one ever apologized for agism... hmm. Anyway, thank you for whatever type of input you have supplied, be it comical, defensive, related, or any other. This would be an interesting sociological study (thanks for the project idea for next term's class).

 

On a side note, getting back to the origins of this poste, I have discovered that he was doing what he did in order to appear more outgoing in an attempt to impress his peers (myself included). For anyone's future reference, this is not the best way to impress femals with the same qualities as myself. I have also heard evidence (straight from the horse's mouth for lack of a better term) from his best friends that he is asking someone out soon. Guess who I'm rooting for? I hope this situation resolves itself within the coming future.

 

One last thought. The pen is truly mighitier then the sword (even if you don't know how to correctly spell

[ShySoul]

DN,

 

While I get the message you are saying, and agree, there comes a point where you can be so passionate about something, that it actually detracts from the message you are getting accross.

 

Yes, substitue black in place of men and its not as funny. For that matter, substitue women. Women have had to suffer as well throughout the years, always seen as under men in the power structure (for the most part). To flip the skip and make a silly joke about men holding less power, almost seems like its owed to them. I've also noticed that blacks can take it to far as well. They will make jokes about white people and put them down. They'll even make jokes about each other. I've heard them throwing the N word around at each other as a joke, but if a white person said it to them, they would get offended.

 

Point is, its not always what we say, its how we say it and how we choose to let it affect us. In the case of your grandson, it was problem said by a bully or he took it more personally then he should. And thats not good. That's why we should be encouraging and stress that everyone can do anything they set there minds to doing, that we are all good people at heart. But if you get so serious about it, that can also be a detrimental. You have to be able to laugh at yourself, just realize who you are on the inside and not lose sight of that, no matter what is said about you.

 

There is nothing wrong with saying things as a joke. You just have to make sure and be careful that the people you are speaking to understand it is a joke. I wouldn't say that boys are stupid to an 11 year old boy, I know to be encouraging. I would say men are idiots to cheer up a frustrated 16 year old girl who didn't mean it in the first place. It depends on the circumstances, sometimes such humor can help, other times it is detrimental.

 

smilelikeyoumeanit - If you need help with that project, you know where to turn to.

[DN]

What you say to a 16 year old girl can be read by easily influenced or depressed 13 year old boys struggling with many issues, many of whom are members of this forum. It can also be passed on by other people. What you say as a 'joke' can be taken as being very serious and doesn't necessarily stay on here - it becomes part of a more general view shared by many people that is very damaging. That is why racist and sexist jokes are so hurtful, the damage that they do goes beyond the immediate.

 

Frankly, your comment that jokes of this nature are almost 'owed' to women is not useful to anyone. I see no reason why my seven year old grandson, or any other child, should be required to pay such a price, if indeed a debt is owed. One injustice never justifies another - that is how feuds and wars are started and hatred perpetuated.

 

You can argue all you want - but you of all people should be sensitive to the damage that can be done by the casual and hurtful remarks of other people if we are to believe the sentiments expressed in the thread you posted this past week.

 

If you really believe that you like to help people stop saying boys are idiots, even as a joke. It may help the 16 year old girl, although I would argue that even that is counter-productive. But it certainly doesn't add to the greater good, it does the exact opposite.

[DN]

While I get the message you are saying, and agree, there comes a point where you can be so passionate about something, that it actually detracts from the message you are getting accross.

 

 

I make no apology for being passionate in defending people who are unable to defend themselves, particularly when they are young and vulnerable.

[Dako]

DN,

While I find the battle of the sexes humorous at times, I still wonder at all the sitcoms with a dimwit husband and his sensible wife.

Kids do pick up on this, especially when raised by a single mother.

[DN]

I think I have a great sense of humour, most people tell me I have. But when jokes can damage I try to avoid them. I have two daughters, both adults now, I would never make jokes about 'all girls are fat' or 'girls can't do math'. The consequences of jokes like that are potentially too serious.

 

I don't think it is over-dramatising when I point out that the rate of suicide among young males is at an all time high. There are many reasons for that and I am not suggesting that a kid who sees a post saying 'all men are idiots' is going to go away and kill himself because of it. But self esteem can be chipped away in tiny amounts and the cumulative effect is what counts.

 

It's a simple thing - if the joke is inappropriate about one race or gender, it is inappropriate for the others.

[melrich]

While I find the battle of the sexes humorous at times, I still wonder at all the sitcoms with a dimwit husband and his sensible wife.

 

Brady Bunch? Sienfeld?

 

Yes I agree, there is an appropriate way to portray the male, I'm not sure that the script is not the slave to the audience though.

[ocrob]

I don't know what to think about all of the posts I have read. I guess we all frustrate each other and we all connect with certain people. I say just have fun, be respectful and find someone you get along with.

[cheesapeakecheese]

No, not all of them suck, whoever posted this, I'm offended by it. In fact, I have this girl that won't leave me alone.

[Shadows Light]

No, not all of them suck, whoever posted this, I'm offended by it. In fact, I have this girl that won't leave me alone.

 

Point taken.

 

Now why won't the girl leave you alone?? in what regard won't she leave you alone???